August 7, 2011 Sunday Meeting
5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
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AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, Fladrifv, Galdor-(V)/galdorandwe, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1
New member: Grimbeorn-(V)
LotRO Beta going.
Diablo III beta sign-ups now going.
Tolkien chat: The Beornings: what do we know about them?
WoW gaming together afterwards.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
galdorandwe has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: Aiya all :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya all!
AriehnV: hows you people?
Eonwe Valar: Pretty good.
galdorandwe: Wondeful, and what about you Arien?
AriehnV: all right :-) tired from work
Eonwe Valar: We'll begin the meeting shortly.
ArPharazonV: Take your time, doing my Hyjal dailies.
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's begin.
Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: We have a new member this week: Grimbeorn.
galdorandwe: I saw him on LOTRO
Eonwe Valar: He joined us in LotRO, scouted by Maedhros and tested by Varda.
ArPharazonV: That's the Tolkien name?
galdorandwe: Isn't that Beorn's successor?
Eonwe Valar: Aye. Grimbeorn was the grandson of Beorn.
ArPharazonV: Ahh, okay.
galdorandwe: Still maintained shapeshifting?
ArPharazonV: Name mentioned in what book?
Eonwe Valar: er, son of Beorn.
Eonwe Valar: Fellowship of the RIng.
Eonwe Valar: As I recall, GLoin mentions him to Frodo as they're talking.
Eonwe Valar: Presumably, Grimbeorn would have all the same abilities as his father, aye.
galdorandwe: I recall reading somewhere about them eventually losing that ability down the line...not sure.
ArPharazonV: Not in his son already, surely?
galdorandwe: No, but down the line.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya! Just barely got out of the car and turned on the AC. How goes it? :-)
galdorandwe: Aiya Varda
Eonwe Valar: Just talking about Grimbeorn in the books, after mentioning Grimbeorn in our Guild :}
VardaValar1: Cool :-)
Eonwe Valar: Is there any other membership news?
ArPharazonV: Well, I had another hospital visit on tuesday, as I told you last week
VardaValar1: In LotRO, one person is re-reading the books to join, and
another is trying to get with me for a test sometime soon.
VardaValar1: How did it go, Phar?
ArPharazonV: The scan went okay technically, but as for the results, we
don't know yet, we have an appointment to discuss them on the 16th.
ArPharazonV: If it's important enough to be discussed at the hospital, at least I'm assuming they found something.
ArPharazonV: They said it wasn't serious though.
ArPharazonV: Or.. critical, I suppose the right term would be.
VardaValar1: Hope they can at least treat you so you feel better.
ArPharazonV: can only hope!
ArPharazonV: that's all from me
Eonwe Valar: I hope all works out, Phar.
galdorandwe: I hope for the best for you, Phar.
Eonwe Valar: Web:
Eonwe Valar: Doesn't seem we have anything for Web right now.
VardaValar1: Sorry about that. Hope to have something next week.
VardaValar1: Don't forget gang,
VardaValar1: be sure your character is represented in the Encyc at
least, even if it's only an article about his or her belt buckle. :-)
VardaValar1: Poems and stories and art are nice too.
VardaValar1: *steps off of soapbox*
Eonwe Valar: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/frames/Tsitefrms.htm : Current link to the Tolkien Site front page if you don't know where to get to it :}
Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: WoW:
Eonwe Valar: Sunday Run:
Eonwe Valar: Attending: Eonwë, Elwing, Varda, Bofur, Eowyn, Bilbo
Eonwe Valar: Runs: Eye of Eternity and Ulduar.
Eonwe Valar: First, it was Eonwe, Elwing, Eowyn, Varda, and Bofur for
the Eye of Eternity. Some of us hadn't done the dragons before, and for
some of us it'd been a long while, so while we didn't do too bad, It
took us a few tries to get used to it. We got Malygos down on the
fourth try, though.
Eonwe Valar: For future practice, for when we run the Eye of Eternity
again, there is a daily quest in Coldarra that gives you a chance to
get used to the controls of the drakes in Eye of Eternity. It's called
"Aces High!" and comes from Corastrasza high on a plantform near the
Eonwe Valar: Afterwards, Bilbo joined us for Ulduar. We set a goal of
the first four bosses before quitting time. Flame Leviathan went
incredibly smoothly, and Razorscale didn't go too badly either. Igneous
was slightly rough, since we were going for a couple of tougher
achievements on him, but he went down in one go as well. Having done so
well so far, we decided to give XT-002 a go in hard mode. After
triggering hard mode, we got him down to 52% before we lost, and
running out of time, we decided to just kill him in normal mode and get
hard mode later.
Eonwe Valar: Achievements obtained tonight (all in 10-player mode):A
poke in the EyeThe Spellweaver's DownfallShutoutUnbrokenA Quick
ShaveHot PocketShatteredNerf EngineeringThe Siege of Ulduar Eonwe
Valar: (and by "tonight", that of course means last Sunday, hehe)
Eonwe Valar: Friday Run:
Eonwe Valar: For fun, we thought we'd take a look inside the Firelands
raid and see how we do with whoever shows up. We weren't expecting to
get far, but wanted to see how we fare anyway.
karakedi25 has entered the room.
galdorandwe: Aiya Indis
AriehnV: Aiya Indis
Eonwe Valar: Participants: Eonwë, Elwing, Sauron, Bofur, Varda, Eowyn.
karakedi25: can't stay lone (another family dinner thing) :-(
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis. Have a nice dinner. : )
Eonwe Valar: We gave it a go, with a few different alts and average
item levels spanning a fairly wide range. We didn't get anything down,
but it was worth the effort going in just to check the area out.
Eonwe Valar: Afterwards, Eonwe, Elwing, Eowyn, Bofur, and Sauron went
into a normal heroic dungeon, but didn't have time to finish it before
a couple of us had to call it a night.
VardaValar1: Silly work. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Tonight, our plan is to pick up where we left off in
Ulduar, and hopefully finish it. If not, we ought to be able to finish
it next Sunday.
Eonwe Valar: LotRO:
AriehnV: My Annarwen managed to sneak up to 75 :-) (so while not able to participate she is definitely getting closer.
Eonwe Valar: Good to hear Arien :}
Eonwe Valar: Varda, your floor for the LotRo report.
VardaValar1: Monday we ran Sammath Gul in Mirkwood's Dol Guldur, a challenging dungeon that we have proven we can beat. :-)
VardaValar1: We took down big boss Gorothul and Galdor here collected
the Symbol of Celebrimbor, one of the most desirable crafting drops. :-)
galdorandwe: It was also my very last book quest until the new update woo hoo :-)
VardaValar1: One thing I use to prioritize what run we go on is who needs a class quest there or a book quest.
ArPharazonV: So you're basically done now? :-)
galdorandwe: No, you're never donw in LoTRO :-)
VardaValar1: It's a road that goes ever on and on. :-)
galdorandwe: It's long and winding :-)
VardaValar1: The book quest keeps getting updates.
ArPharazonV: Well, yes, but if you're done before the update, it means you're done *until* the update?
VardaValar1: The Fellowship hasn't even gotten close to dropping the Ring in Mt. Doom yet.
VardaValar1: O yes. Right. On to maxing your Legendary Items and traits before the update!
galdorandwe: No, there are several things I can do, and quests I can
still go on, just the book quests are completed. It's nice to have
VardaValar1: Wednesday Tulkas
asked for us to go give Sari-Surma a go, a very tough 6-man and one of
the new ones. Several folks hadn't even discovered the location so we
had a pretty green group, but it was interesting.
VardaValar1: Thursday Maedhros asked for a Goblin Town run, a very long, multi-part dungeon that we'll continue next Thursday.
VardaValar1: It was for a batch of our early 40 level characters with help from Indis and Pippin on their 65's.
karakedi25: Alas, I must leave now, but I'll try to stay in touch by phone.
karakedi25 has left the room.
VardaValar1: the beta is going for LotRO
VardaValar1: Quite a few of us have invitations to it.
VardaValar1: Fortunately they mostly also still play with the main group.
VardaValar1: The changes are thick on the ground, folks.
VardaValar1: Anyone else have a comment for LotRO?
AriehnV: err i had a jump back to my Burglar :-)
AriehnV: i think i prefer the tricks and vanishing to any ranged attacl
AriehnV: specifically in angmar coming up
VardaValar1: Burglar is a very good character and good to have in a
group, especially for the various mez's and fellowship manuevers.
AriehnV: its just a wee bit frustrating to come to a quest site and constantly getting ambushed from behind
AriehnV: by some stupid patrol
AriehnV: the hunter is just not strong enough to cope with two attackers
VardaValar1: Pull your camera angle up
VardaValar1: Use bard's arrow to mez one
VardaValar1: Use traps
AriehnV: dont have bards arrow yet
VardaValar1: When it comes available, grab it. :-)
VardaValar1: and you can fear, Rain of Thorns
VardaValar1: "Do not despair."
AriehnV: anyway i had a blase through the evendim estates on the burglar and got one level
VardaValar1: Very good. :-)
galdorandwe: Hunter's re the simplest class in the game and very easy
to level. Traps are big, like Varda said. any weaponsmith can make you
some...my Hunter always has several stacks of them at all times.
VardaValar1: Elwing is now playing LotRO regularly, our WoW buddy, on Saturdays. :-)
VardaValar1: Trap and Snare are also skills not requiring items. The
built traps give a lot of versatility, and even tripwire gives an fm.
AriehnV: then i am too silly to play that
AriehnV: i cant
galdorandwe: I can make you some Arien. You know I stop what ever I'm doing to help you when you're on :-)
AriehnV: never mind that now go on with the meeting :-)
Eonwe Valar: Is there any other gaming news before we move to Tolkien? Now would be a good time to whisper me topics as well.
ArPharazonV: Some more flashgames, including an interesting RPG thing that's rather reminiscent of the Diablo series.
ArPharazonV: Which I definitely need to look into again.
ArPharazonV: Also, I got my flaming hippogryph in WoW this week :-)
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
AriehnV: nice one grats :-)
Eonwe Valar: Actually, there is more gaming news, hehe..
Eonwe Valar: Blizzard is starting to take signups for the Diablo II beta, if anyone in the guild is interested.
Eonwe Valar: *Diablo III, that is
ArPharazonV: yes :-)
Eonwe Valar: For more info: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/events/diablo3-announcement/index.html#beta:d3-overview
VardaValar1: Very interesting. We had a number of people over time say
they really would like to go back home to a new, improved Diablo. We'll
see if we get some folks over there.
VardaValar1: Remember to make the Valar friend channel anywhere you go, official branch or no. :-)
ArPharazonV: I did see something about blizzard going to make auction
houses for Diablo III loot, where you pay real money.. seems a bit silly
Eonwe Valar: In less pleasant news, it looks like the D3 Auction house
will allow people to spend real currency on in-game items.
VardaValar1: Guess the game-makers are trying to make an end-run around the gold-sellers.
Eonwe Valar: For info on that: http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/events/diablo3-announcement/index.html#auction:auction-summary
ArPharazonV: If they can make money out of *our* game, why can't we?
ArPharazonV: AKA if you can't beat em, join em?
Eonwe Valar: Well, it's not much different that what Sony did with EQ2.
Eonwe Valar: I just don't think it's that great of a precedent.
VardaValar1: Aka, let the game have the money instead of the thieves.
Eonwe Valar: And of course, Blizzard gets a cut of any sales.
VardaValar1: At least in LotRO, we don't *have* to buy the items in the
store with rl money. We can earn Turbine Points in-game or get most of
the items in-game.
AriehnV: its a nice rip off , not much to do with fun
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, last call for gaming new before we move to Tolkien.
Fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Flad :-)
VardaValar1: We are in gaming, non-LotRO, non-WoW if you have any news.
Eonwe Valar: And now we're in...
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: I'll let Gandlor take the blame for tonight's Tolkien topic, hehe :}
AriehnV: I ve posted in the rp :-)
Eonwe Valar: *Galdor
VardaValar1: o neat :-)
Eonwe Valar: The Beornings: what do we know about them?
galdorandwe: They had some sort of affiliation with the misty mountains...Beorn was forced out when the orcs came...I believe.
Eonwe Valar: We're told they are Men, but seem to have odd powers most of humanity does not, like the Druedain.
galdorandwe: Hence his hatred of them.
AriehnV: Hmm , were there more like Beorn?
VardaValar1: Arien, nice post. Definitely went with the idea of the
sword's grabbing Frali, and his strength in throwing it off when it was
away from him.
VardaValar1: The Beornings were a race, aye.
AriehnV: I was musing about it during the quiet phases at work today *grin*, which werent much
AriehnV: and got sort of started there ^^
ArPharazonV: I can muse about my next post all I want, and frequently
give it a lot of though, but when I get down to typing it in it usually
writes itself anyway ;-)
AriehnV: "chuckles* i know exactly what you mean
AriehnV: hmm didnt know about that , the Beornings i mean , they arent metioned very opften
ArPharazonV: They were given half of Mirkwood, I think. Or Greenwood the Great, or whatever it was called in the Fourth Age.
VardaValar1: Beornings tended not to eat meat, were famed bakers.
ArPharazonV: Sorry, not half. The middle piece.
AriehnV: well Beorn, who seems to be their Chieftain or some such has got the ability to turn into a bear
galdorandwe: I have to assume more were alive at the time of Beorn since he was considerred the :leader" of that people
VardaValar1: They charged a toll, but kept the High Pass and the Ford
of the Carrock clear of orcs, which they passionately hated.
AriehnV: and communicate with animals on an intelligent level
AriehnV: so a close relationship with Radagast seems natural :-)
Eonwe Valar: Beorn on Radagast: "Not a bad fellow as wizards go, I believe." hehe
galdorandwe: How far back does the race of Beornings go?
VardaValar1: The Beornings were related to the Edain, and spoke a language something like Adunaic and Rohirric.
VardaValar1: With their extreme hatred of orcs, we can guess they might
have had something to do with the separation. Perhaps the berserker
genetics were a problem too, at least in peace time.
VardaValar1: Berserker (bear-skin).
Eonwe Valar: Gandalf mentions a belief that Beorn was a bear descended
from ancient bears that lived in the mountains before the giants came,
but he does not give much credence to this tale.
AriehnV: hmm a cross breed isnt fertile as any horse breeder would tell you ^^
VardaValar1: But there's hybrid vigor. :-)
galdorandwe: Is it worth mentioning that Beorn seemed to be able to
change the size of the bear he changed into? I recall something in the Hobbit
where Beorn came to carry Thorin's body away and he was described as
being a bear, larger and more ferocious than he had been when they saw
him before. I'm paraphrasing there, but you get the gist.
Eonwe Valar: That would be worth mentioning, aye.
VardaValar1: Gandalf doesn't really believe that man and bear crossed though. Just a tale told.
VardaValar1: Aye, Galdor.
galdorandwe: Perhaps his rage effected the size of bear
VardaValar1: Like in-game. :-)
Eonwe Valar: He wouldn't necessarily *have* to be descended from both
man and bear to take the shape of a man, were there any reason to
believe the tale was possible.
VardaValar1: Berserker rage adds to his bear "magic".
ArPharazonV: Related to the Edain, you say? Cousins to the Eorlongs, maybe?
Eonwe Valar: There is folklore where animals/animal spirits can take the form of a person.
galdorandwe: This may be a longshot here, but is it possible that
Beornings may be something not unlike the Púkel-men? What I mean
is that perhaps there were other men-like races wth special powers that
have long ancestries, that have thinned out as time went on.
VardaValar1: Also folklore where men/shamans took over the bodies of nearby animals.
VardaValar1: I would agree that they are close to becoming a true man
variant like hobbits if they keep reclusive long enough. But with the
new King, they may get to cross with normal people again.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Galdor. The pukel-men are the Druedain I was referring to.
VardaValar1: Pukel-men, Woses, Druedain all names for one group.
Pukel-men being more of a refernce to their ancestors, if I remember
Eonwe Valar: I would say that the Beornings are already a branch of the
race of Man. Whether or not they remain viable as a separate people in
the long run is a different question.
ArPharazonV: A reference to the statues, I thought.
galdorandwe: I only mention it because of the special powers they were
rumoured to possess, and that they were man-like. This is an excellent
topic and one that needs discussing, Thanks Eonwe. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thank you for bringing it up :}
ArPharazonV: What about Maia ancestry? I figure they might have
shapeshifting abilities, which would thin out as the blood got more
Eonwe Valar: I won't reject the possibility, but the question then becomes "who's Maiar?" Melkor's or one of the Valar's?
VardaValar1: No suggestion anywhere of Maia ancestry, interesting thought though. Gandalf would have known.
ArPharazonV: One of the Valar's. There seems to be nothing dark about it.
AriehnV: would Maiar cross with Edain to breed?
VardaValar1: Were they fleeing Melkor, as so many of the humans were?
They are in the right position for runners. Maybe they were
VardaValar1: I doubt it, Arien.
AriehnV: so do i :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm not sure Maiar serving the Valar would.
Eonwe Valar: Maiar serving Melkor though,..
ArPharazonV: Not all Maiar are equal in power, or thought about the
(mortal) races the same way. There might have been an exception.
ArPharazonV: It's not a big step from what Melian did, though I suppose there's a big difference between Men and Elves.
VardaValar1: I would assume Sauron would have been corrupting humans into workers for Morgoth, same as he did with orcs, trolls.
AriehnV: the Maiar were closer to the Elves than closer to the Edain
Eonwe Valar: Elves are alike in nature of spirit to the Ainur, even if they are coporeal.
Eonwe Valar: Also, Elves were immortal. Easier to form a lasting
eternal relationship when you know your spouse isn't going to get old
one day and leave the Circles of the World.
ArPharazonV: Allright, so it's unlikely. But it doesn't have to be
common, it only has to happen once. And there are a lot of Maiar out
galdorandwe: hmmm....is there nay information on how long Beornings lived?
VardaValar1: I just mean they didn't need to cross with Maia.
galdorandwe: * any
ArPharazonV: Aye, they could be experiments by Melkor or Sauron.
Eonwe Valar: Beorn lived to be pretty old for a human, as I recall. Not Numenorean old, but old.
VardaValar1: The Beornings seem to have been much like regular humans.
They had children (Grimbeorn) in what appeared to be a normal human
galdorandwe: Just curious...was wondering if any evidence to imply mixing of blood.
AriehnV: they were largely vegetarians, loved honey and fruits as far as we know from the dwarves and Bilbo's stay with Beorn
ArPharazonV: I was just wondering where their powers came from, Galdor, it seemed Maia-ish.
ArPharazonV: I don't care how easy my feral druid makes it seem, shapeshifting is powerful magic :-)
VardaValar1: Possibly were driven from the Misty Mountains by orcs, accordiing to The Complete Guide to Middle-earth. Not sure where they got that, but interesting.
Eonwe Valar: OK, not finding anything on Beorn's age, but his son Grimbeorn was called "Grimbeorn the Old" so...
VardaValar1: Aye, he was.
Eonwe Valar: It's from the discusison on his origins in the Hobbit, no
doubt, where it mentiones "goblins coming into the hills out of the
Eonwe Valar: "Queer Lodgings" where Gandalf is telling Bilbo about Beorn.
VardaValar1: Fellowship "Many Meetings" for Grimbeorn
Eonwe Valar: "One I saw him sitting
all alone on the top of the Carrock at nightwatching the moon sinking
towards the MIsty Mountains, and I heard him growl in the tongue of
bears; 'The day will come when they will perish and I shall go back!'
That is why I beleive he came from the mountains himself."
VardaValar1: And why he hates orcs.
ArPharazonV: It does imply that his absence from the mountains is due to the orcs.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Galdor is going to be afk, chance to do a good 3-man instance: North-cotton Farms.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Eonwe said he can't get back in the room, after the dsconnect.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
AriehnV: Gandalf sais of him "Some
say he is a man descendent from the first Men that crossed the
Mountains before Smaug of any other Dragons crossed into this part of
the world , and before the Goblins crossed the hills out of the North.
I cannot say , though I fancy this tale is the truth"
Eonwe Valar: Oh, I think I made it back in.
AriehnV: yayy :-D
VardaValar1: Thanks, Arien. :-)
ArPharazonV: crossed the Mountains... from where? East or West?
AriehnV: The Misty Mountains i think
galdorandwe: I'm on the 6-man part of the quest chain...no clue about that one
ArPharazonV: So though Men came from the East, after Men moved back
over the Misty Mountains at a later date, *they* were considered the
VardaValar1: sorry, mt from side window
VardaValar1: The Beornings apparently came from the Misty Mts.
AriehnV: Gandalf overheard him saying something about returning to the
mountains when he was about to die or something to the effect , which
lead him to the conclusion they originally came from there
ArPharazonV: Okay, so at some point Men crossed over the Misty
Mountains into Wilderland. They came from the other side, which would
be the West, Eriador, and they are related to the Edain. That fits the
Melkor-experiment story quite well.
AriehnV: But they obviously managed to break free from any hold Melkor might have had over them if that is what they were
AriehnV: which would explain their hatred of the goblins and them joining in the battle of the Five armies
Eonwe Valar: They don't necessarily have to have come back west, just
be there before the dragons came south of the Iron Mountains.
Eonwe Valar: Most of Morgoth's military might was focused on Beleriand
during the First Age, so it's quite reasonable to assume nowhere east
of the Blue Mountains had seen a dragon before the end of the First Age.
ArPharazonV: According to Arien's quote, they were descended from "the first Men that crossed the mountains"
Eonwe Valar: Then scratch what I said for now, was merging Blue
Mountains and Misty Mountains in my thought, even if I knew they were
Eonwe Valar: *even though
VardaValar1: Both have "mountains" in the name! ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, it is now WoW run time, and since the chat has died down enough, I shall end the meeting here.
Eonwe Valar: However, we could always pick this up on the forum. We could use some good Tolkien discussion there :}
Eonwe Valar: *raises gavel*
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting :}
AriehnV: http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/virtual.html .. if someone likes some nice filksongs ;-)
AriehnV: i think i gave the link a while back but a reminder doesnt huirt ..
AriehnV: Namarie all and thank you for the topic :-) was quite interesting
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: nifty link, thanks. :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm going to leave AIM early tonight to give my computer less to do.
ArPharazonV: Namarie, then!
Eonwe Valar: Take care all, good night, sleep well, and have fun.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Think I'll go do some dishes soon. Home alone this weekend, and haven't done em in two days.
VardaValar1: Slap down the tentacles!
ArPharazonV: When the cat's away, the mice will... sleep.
VardaValar1 has left the room.
galdorandwe has left the room.
Fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript