August 21, 2011 Sunday Meeting
5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
Back to News
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Menelvagor Valar, VardaValar1
Discussion: FotR Ch. 3 "Three's Company"
WoW run in Uldaur, completing it, and then in Obsidian Sanctum where Elwing got the Black Drake mount.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya, Golden One. :-)
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe and Fladrif :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya both!
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
VardaValar1: Invited all I could see.
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Aug. 19 was Elwing-(V)'s birthday. Plays a lot of WoW with us on Lothar and some LotRO with us. Has art on our Tolkien Site.
VardaValar1: Does anyone else have any membership news?
VardaValar1: We have a new article: "Nerdanel"
VardaValar1: and a new story "Sometimes You Just Can't Win" by Jay of Lasgalen
VardaValar1: Meriadoc-(V) shared a YouTube link with Aragorn and Arwen:
VardaValar1: Does anyone else have any web news?
VardaValar1: Has anyone been playing any non-LotRO, non-WoW games?
VardaValar1: HellGate was indulged in at my house by Sauron, Bilbo, and Eowyn this last week a good bit.
ArPharazonV: Few more flashgames, including one based on Warcraft II, which you all might remember
VardaValar1: Thanks for the link, Phar. :-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe, could you give the WoW report?
Eonwe Valar: Sure.
Eonwe Valar: Sunday:
Eonwe Valar: Attending: Members: Eonwe, Elwing, Eowyn, Bofur, Varda, Sauron, Fangorn, NobGuild Friends: Lumierre
Eonwe Valar: We got through Mimiron, and Lumierre and Nob joined us
right before General Vezax. When we got to Yogg'Saron, we decided to go
for hard mode for the guild achievement. Our best attempt got him down
to 11%, but Nob and Sauron needed to go, so we called it there. We'll
pick up on Yogg'Saron again next week, as hard mode is quite doable.The
rest of us went into Tempest Keep to fight Kael'Thas for the Ashes of
A'lar. The ashes, unfortunately, didn't drop. Eonwe Valar: Friday:
Eonwe Valar: Nothing to speak of on Friday. Many of us had real life interferences.
Eonwe Valar: That concludes my report.
VardaValar1: It was Elwing's birthday and I managed to come in late and see her in WoW and we had a good time. : )
VardaValar1: Phar, did you want to mention anything WoW-related?
VardaValar1: I started yet *another* druid.
VardaValar1: Worgen druid forms look better than a lot of the others, imo.
ArPharazonV: Oh, not really. Got the Flamebreaker title and finished
all my quest achievements on my druid, but I'm not sure if that was
last week already.
VardaValar1: Grats to the Flamebreaker!
VardaValar1: In LotRO:
ArPharazonV: Been doing some regular Battlegrounds as well, with some
friends. So getting some practice and achievements there. And I got my
2-piece tier 12 setbonus :D
VardaValar1: o nice, Phar!
ArPharazonV: And that'll do for now. Might slip some in in aftermeeting if I can remember.
VardaValar1: Good plan.
VardaValar1: Monday maintenance went awry apparently, so a lot of us
couldn't enter the game until very late. We did, however, chat with
each other in Ventrilo and learned it wasn't on our own computers.
VardaValar1: So there's another use for Vent. :-)
VardaValar1: Wednesday we did *two* instances together, kind of made up for Monday.
VardaValar1: We ran Urugarth and Carn Dum, both in Angmar, kncoking off
class quests, deeds, and collecting class items for those who are
coming along behind those characters.
VardaValar1: It's one of those required pairs of instances to get your legendary traits.
VardaValar1: We are getting more people on at all hours of the day
instead of just a few times, thanks to new folks with odd times.
VardaValar1: We haven't quite gotten back to Diablo days of 24/7 having folks on, but it's reminding us a bit of it.
VardaValar1: Any other comments, suggestions, questions about anything for this business section?
VardaValar1: Eonwe had to step away from the keyboard for a bit. Who else is present?
VardaValar1: The planned chat tonight will be over Fellowship of the Ring's chapter 3: "Three is Company", in case anyone would like to run grab a book.
VardaValar1: Also, if anyone has a comment to make concerning the rp, now is good.
ArPharazonV: When I halted my last reread I was at the Barrow Downs, so hopefully it's not too long ago yet.
VardaValar1: Nice. Maybe you'll have some insights then. : )
VardaValar1: Gandalf noticed that Frodo seemed not to be making any signs of leaving and wanted him to go both quietly and soon.
VardaValar1: Frodo said it was difficult to do both. Why?
karakedi25 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Going quietly required preparations, spreading tales
across the Shire of what they should think he was going to do, and that
required time :-)
ArPharazonV: To vanish like Bilbo.. the tale'd be all over the Shire in no time!
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis
VardaValar1: Also, Frodo didn't know where he was supposed to be going.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Gandalf wasn't sure if Frodo was going to go all the way
to the Cracks of Doom or have to turn over that task to others.
VardaValar1: Gandalf suggested heading for Rivendell
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
VardaValar1: That would please Sam for sure. : )
VardaValar1: Aiya Menel :-)
VardaValar1: We are in the Tolkien chat: FotR, Ch. 3, "Three's Company".
VardaValar1: Just started so your timing is decent.
Menelvagor Valar: Unfortunately, I have some work to do... finish my CV for my job application :-)
VardaValar1: Frodo sold Bag End to the Sackville-Bagginses, stirring up quite a fuss.
Menelvagor Valar: has to be done within the next 24 minutes :-)
VardaValar1: Ok, good luck on your job application!
ArPharazonV: This weekend my brother and I started watching the Lotr
movies bit by bit, saw the first hour of Fellowship yesterday....
already marking an interesting difference
karakedi25: definitely should come first
VardaValar1: Menel, you might want to turn off the chat, could be too much distraction.
ArPharazonV: Gandalf, here, suggested going for Rivendell soon; in the
movie, the only target Frodo got was Bree, and Aragorn made the
decision to go to Rivendell.
VardaValar1: Phar, what did you notice?
VardaValar1: That's interesting, aye.
VardaValar1: Made it more of a stepping stone for the audience to follow.
ArPharazonV: That sounds reasonable, yes. Not to confuse them.
VardaValar1: JRRT thought more highly of his audience, maybe. ;-)
ArPharazonV: Well yes. And a book lends itself for reviewing its past
content better, to read back what you've already read. In a movie
that's a bit trickier.
VardaValar1: Frodo drops some hints that he's leaving because he's running out of money, looking for a less expensive place.
VardaValar1: Buy that DVD!
karakedi25: also more immediate stimulation of multiple senses in a movie
VardaValar1: So the hobbits promptly got their gossip mill going,
because they didn't want to believe the Baggins treasure could run out.
VardaValar1: They also commented that since he was going to live with
his Brandybuck relations, he would put himself as far as possible from
the Sackville-Bagginses. Good point there.
VardaValar1: Gandalf was known to be around, so some suggested it was a dark plot by the wizard.
karakedi25: As in the silly Winter Festival play in Lotro
VardaValar1: Merry had helped Frodo choose and buy a little house, not
a hole, at Crickhollow. Interesting that it wasn't a hobbit hole.
Easier to bolt out of?
karakedi25: Also privacy, as the main holes seemed to be in the Hall
VardaValar1: This also put him on the eastern side of the Shire, easier to take off on his journey.
VardaValar1: Oh, good point, Indis.
ArPharazonV: So Gandalf says his general direction should not be known;
and yet he buys a house on the very eastern edge of the Shire... geeh,
where could he have gone?
VardaValar1: After Frodo announced his plan and appeared to be leaving
soon (two months!), Gandalf said he heard something that made him
anxious and he had to leave and check into it.
karakedi25: There was the excuse of Brandybuck relatives, plus the not-surprising aversion to the S-Bs
VardaValar1: Almost any other direction wasn't much of a direction.
ArPharazonV: Well, still. If he was going to make people think he was
going to go into a different direction than he did, he didn't do a very
VardaValar1: Gandalf planned to return, at the latest for the farewell party.
ArPharazonV: It is no surprise the Riders went straight to Bree.
VardaValar1: Suppose it might have been a problem for them if they thought Frodo was headed towards the Grey Havens?
ArPharazonV: Certainly would've thrown em off a while, but troublesome for the Elves, probably.
VardaValar1: Gandalf didn't show up. But Frodo had friends helping with the packing. Who came?
VardaValar1: (This is open book.)
karakedi25: Wasn't it Pippin and Fatty?
ArPharazonV: Fredegar Bolger, Folco Boffin, and Merry and Pippin.
VardaValar1: Aye to both of you.
karakedi25: I thought Merry was already at Buckland
VardaValar1: Not yet.
ArPharazonV: No, Merry helped with packing, but went ahead with Fatty the next day, the day before Frodo departed.
VardaValar1: Frodo sent off his stuff by cart, had his farewell party with his four friends.
VardaValar1: He felt too troubled by Gandalf's being missing to feel like much of a party.
VardaValar1: But the party was still merry, as the wine was not sold to the S-B's. :-)
VardaValar1: The next morning they packed the remaining cart with the
last of the luggage, driven off by Fatty and Merry. Like Indis
VardaValar1: They planned on getting the house ready for Frodo before his arrival.
VardaValar1: Pippin stayed with Frodo.
VardaValar1: Folco went home.
ArPharazonV: Folco wasn't part of the conspiracy, that we know of. Probably a good thing he went home when he did.
VardaValar1: As a last goodbye to the Shire, Frodo wanted to hike
across from Hobbiton to Buckleberry Ferry, and also get himself into
shape for the tougher journey.
VardaValar1: Safer, aye.
VardaValar1: When Lobelia took possession of the house, she was a hundred years old. Long wait.
VardaValar1: Lotho was with her.
VardaValar1: Actually she didn't take it immediately, and had to get the key from the Gamgees.
karakedi25: didn't Lobelia say something tactful like 'at last' when she took possession?
VardaValar1: Yes, hehe
ArPharazonV: Ours at last!
VardaValar1: Sam was with Pippin and Frodo for tea after Lobelia and
Lotho (son) left. First mention of Sam but we know he had to have been
VardaValar1: They had officially announced that Sam was going to be working for Frodo at Crickhollow.
VardaValar1: Things seemed to be going off peacefully and smoothly, but then something happened. What was it?
ArPharazonV: Do we know for sure? He wasn't mentioned. Sam might only
have arrived later that day. Though it's unlikely. The dinner the
previous day only talks about Frodo and his four helpers.
VardaValar1: Sam is not mentioned at all until the tea, and only the 4 helpers are mentioned.
karakedi25: Yes, Sam would have wanted to spend the last night with the gaffer
VardaValar1: So Sam may not have shown up until then.
VardaValar1: Pippin and Sam put the packs on the porch, Pip went for a
stroll, Sam "disappeared" leaving Frodo alone and restless. He decided
on starting off in the pleasant night, not wait any longer for Gandalf,
and went outside.
VardaValar1: He heard a strange, unpleasant voice interrogating the Gaffer.
ArPharazonV: And what he heard..
VardaValar1: The Gaffer said Mr. Baggins had already gone.
VardaValar1: and that Sam had gone with him. The place had been sold.
VardaValar1: That was good, but then the Gaffer said Frodo was headed for Buckland.
ArPharazonV: "Went this morning, and my Sam went with him" Well yeah,
that does imply that Sam was already there since the morning.
VardaValar1: He considered Buckland a long way, probably discouraging
to the asker. He had no idea how far the rider had already come.
ArPharazonV: Well thought.
VardaValar1: Frodo only hears this, never sees the person, and feels a weird relief that the person was going away from him.
VardaValar1: He's already sensitive.
ArPharazonV: Could be. Could also simply be the voice itself.
VardaValar1: Maybe so
VardaValar1: He decided not to ask the Gaffer about it, but calls for Sam who had been saying goodbye to the beer.
VardaValar1: He had Sam take the key to the Gaffer, and to cut through
to meet him. They were avoiding the village due to too many spying eyes.
VardaValar1: Frodo and Sam slipped out, not knowing they were taking Bilbo's old path. The road goes ever on.
VardaValar1: Sam had run, carrying his pack, and caught up with them.
VardaValar1: In the dark, he looked a bit like a dwarf because he wore a shapeless felt hat. Disguised intentionally or not?
Eonwe Valar: For Sam, probably not intentional.
VardaValar1: The three made so little sound that even the local wildlife hardly noticed them.
VardaValar1: Pippin was the first to get sleepy and they camped.
ArPharazonV: And a fox stopped by. Significance?
VardaValar1: and it had thoughts of its own. That it was odd. But he never learned more about it. Perhaps a report to Radagast?
VardaValar1: Another night came and they had managed not to see anyone all day, nice secrecy.
Menelvagor Valar: back.
VardaValar1: Then they heard a pony or horse behind them and Frodo had
a bad feeling about it. Rationalizing, he thought he didn't want so
many people always prying at his doings and had the group hide.
VardaValar1: Aiya Menel. Got it done?
ArPharazonV: Interestingly, it *was* Gandalf in the original draft. It was only here that the Black Riders were invented.
VardaValar1: Frodo had only a little hope that it was Gandalf and they could jump out at him.
VardaValar1: o cool :-)
ArPharazonV: I remember that from the History.
VardaValar1: But it was a Black Rider, and the horse stopped when they came level with Frodo and the Ring.
VardaValar1: The Rider seemed to listen and sniff.
VardaValar1: Frodo wanted to hide, and had a huge desire suddenely to
put on the Ring. Gandalf had told him above all not to use it.
VardaValar1: But Bilbo had used it and been alright. And what could happen to him in the Shire?
ArPharazonV: First sign of the Ring's power over Frodo.
ArPharazonV: Quite ominous.
Menelvagor Valar: Putting on the Ring seems to me a sensation that is
mostly in conjunction with the appearance or at least proximity of one
or more of the Nazgūl.
VardaValar1: As soon as Frodo touched the chain, the Rider left.
ArPharazonV: Well yes, Menel. The Ring senses the Nazgul, but not other
way around, and tries to influence the carrier to wear it and reveal
VardaValar1: He sat up from his couch and shook the reigns and left deliberately.
VardaValar1: The Nazgul are drawn by the Ring though.
ArPharazonV: Really a sign that the Nazgul are at least as much part of
the shadow world as they are of the real world. To use the Ring
basically transports you to the shadow world, where they can spot you
ArPharazonV: While hiding you from anyone in the real world.
VardaValar1: They want him to wear the Ring so they can see him in their world. Aye. :-)
VardaValar1: and aye
Menelvagor Valar: Not drawn as in GPS like, but more like a general
direction... possibly like the feeling of Frodo to put on the Ring....
like that it is nearby or something.
VardaValar1: Maybe so, a general feeling.
VardaValar1: At this point Sam makes a report. The Gaffer had told him about the visitor that Frodo had not seen.
Menelvagor Valar: An awareness I suppose one might call it.
VardaValar1: His description is of that same Black Rider, adding that he hissed.
VardaValar1: Luckily the Gaffer really did believe Frodo and Sam had left, and was a bit surprised to see Sam.
ArPharazonV: "It's from Hobbiton that this here black rider comes, unless there's more than one." If only he knew...
ArPharazonV: definitely more than one!
VardaValar1: Frodo wishes he had waited for Gandalf and says it out
loud. Pippin picks up the clue quickly that Frodo knows more about this
rider and that something is going on.
VardaValar1: Frodo decides to do a long travel and not by the road, in case that rider or another follows him.
VardaValar1: They move well along and are cheery enough to sing before they hear hooves again.
VardaValar1: and hid. They are definitely jumpy.
VardaValar1: Pippin mentions not to forget the sniffing.
VardaValar1: Sure enough, it's a Black Rider.
VardaValar1: The urge to put on the Ring hits even stronger.
VardaValar1: What happened that prevented the Rider from collecting them then?
ArPharazonV: Elves! Elves, sir!
VardaValar1: They're High Elves according to Frodo. He knows this because their song uses the name of Elbereth.
VardaValar1: Frodo says to them that they'd welcome the elves' company but they comment that hobbits are so dull.
ArPharazonV: High Elves are a lot rarer than other Elves, apparently.
What would he have expected to see instead? Were there Silvans in
VardaValar1: They say they are Exiles, meaning Noldor. So we have to assume Silvans, aye.
VardaValar1: Elves came through fairly often, and would chat with Bilbo
and Frodo. It mentions that then more started coming through to go to
ArPharazonV: They come out of their own lands "beyond the Tower Hills" apparently. Puts one in mind of the Grey Havens.
VardaValar1: What was the name of the leader of the group.
ArPharazonV: Gildor Inglorion of the House of Elrond :-)
VardaValar1: really close.
ArPharazonV: the House of Finrod.
VardaValar1: There you go!
VardaValar1: Now that's a high elf.
ArPharazonV: Not sure why I read Elrond at first.
VardaValar1: And Frodo uses the phrase that we now use to open our meetings. :-)
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: and translates it:
VardaValar1: a star shines on the hour of our meeting.
VardaValar1: At this point, what does Gildor call Frodo?
ArPharazonV: Elf-friend... mostly known for Elendil :-)
VardaValar1: Elf-friend, good. And then he invites them to come with
them and to stay at the center so they will not stray in their fatigue.
VardaValar1: The phrase turned their no to yes.
VardaValar1: They went to the woods on the hills above Woodhall.
VardaValar1: What did Sam feel about this first meeting with the Elves? :-)
ArPharazonV: He could never describe what he felt ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: which pretty much means over the moon :-)
VardaValar1: hehehe aye
VardaValar1: The narrative does the description for him.
Menelvagor Valar: and I think even Perrin was glad they hadn't gone to... whatever that pub was with the best ale in the Shire.
VardaValar1: "Sam walked along at Frodo's side, as if in a dream, with
an expression on his face half of fear and half of astonished joy."
Menelvagor Valar: or was it Merry who went with them? :-P
ArPharazonV: Nay, 'twas Pippin
VardaValar1: They had to travel a few miles with the elves and Pippin
was staggering with sleepiness, while the other two were doing well. No
wonder Elrond was concerned about this youngest hobbit's ability to go
on the journey to Mordor. He probably got the report from Gildor on
VardaValar1: The hobbits had time for a nap, but then something woke them up. What was it?
VardaValar1: We get the viewpoints from all three hobbits here.
ArPharazonV: The Elves started their party, when Borgil rose.
VardaValar1: Good. Borgil did rise but it was Menelvagor they were waiting for.
VardaValar1: A constellation who happens to be with us tonight, so we can party!
ArPharazonV: Ah, yes. How could one forget Menelvagor? :-)
Menelvagor Valar: easy :-)
Menelvagor Valar: absence ^^
VardaValar1: The elves considered the food poor fare, but Frodo
declared it good enough for a birthday party. Quite a compliment.
Menelvagor Valar: Yes well, the Elves can turn a shoe into good food.
ArPharazonV: And make it last forever, too :-)
VardaValar1: Pippin slept, and Sam pretended to. Frodo stayed awake a
long time and listened when they used their own speech and caught more
that they might not have intended.
VardaValar1: He heard about the wars of Men and the flight of the Elves.
VardaValar1: This tells us what Frodo (and the reader) is walking into.
VardaValar1: Frodo's biggest question was about...?
VardaValar1: Gildor had seen Bilbo in that very spot and another place far away that he would not tell.
VardaValar1: Gildor notices Frodo isn't telling him any news back, and
tells him his best guess, uncomfortably close to the mark.
ArPharazonV: Silly Elves and their secrets.
VardaValar1: Gildor knows the Enemy is after Frodo, but not why. And he knows where they are.
VardaValar1: He finds out that Gandalf had told them nothing of the
Black Riders and says he won't tell them "lest terror should keep you
from your journey".
Menelvagor Valar: Well Pharzie, it's not so much secret, but reluctance to influence the other races.
VardaValar1: Probably scarier than just telling them they're ghosts in robes riding horses.
VardaValar1: Gildor agrees that heading for Rivendell is a good idea.
Menelvagor Valar: Well, would you prefer the danger that was unknown,
however great you might imagine it, or the danger you know would shake
you in your boots?
VardaValar1: Aye, Menel. Gildor says "advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill."
VardaValar1: I prefer to know. But for a story, not knowing is good for keeping it scarier and revealing by showing.
Menelvagor Valar: hehe :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I don't know which I'd prefer.
VardaValar1: Gildor says before the end Frodo will know more of the Black Riders than he does.
VardaValar1: Good data allows better decisions.
Menelvagor Valar: and what Gildor says runs closely to something I've
read in another book, pretty much the entire idea about it.
Menelvagor Valar: "Even the best of intentions may cause the greatest of harms"
VardaValar1: Frodo and Gildor are both concerned because Gandalf has not shown up, so Gildor tries to help a bit.
Menelvagor Valar: Sword of Truth Series, Wizard's Xth law.
ArPharazonV: Nature of people to be curious. By default, we always wish
to know. It's just that when we do, we might wish we didn't.
karakedi25: agreed Varda, about good data
Menelvagor Valar: (X not being 10 btw)
VardaValar1: Thanks, Indis. :-)
Menelvagor Valar: but what consitutes good data?
VardaValar1: Gildor does tell Frodo that the Black Riders are servants
of the Enemy, to flee them, don't talk to them, they are deadly.
ArPharazonV: Accurate information, I'd guess.
Menelvagor Valar: and when is there sufficient data to make a good decision?
ArPharazonV: There never is, but the more you have, the better the decision might be :-)
Menelvagor Valar: at some point one will have to make the best decision possible based upon what one knows and suspects.
VardaValar1: Often we need only a little accurate data to act.
Menelvagor Valar: True.
VardaValar1: Inaccurate data is the danger. One reason I hate lies.
Menelvagor Valar: But the danger with much data is also that the more of it, the poorer the decision might be.
VardaValar1: One must learn to sift data.
ArPharazonV: If the danger with much data is that you can't be sure
what's right and what's wrong, there's no guarantee that having less
data means you have the right data.
VardaValar1: Gildor also states that he will send messages through the
lands. The Wandering Companies will know of Frodo's journey and those
with power for good shall be on the watch.
Menelvagor Valar: True, but that's why I think Gildor was holding back information for a good reason.
VardaValar1: Gildor names Frodo Elf-friend in seriousness.
VardaValar1: Finally Frodo has some real help and is able to sleep.
VardaValar1: Chapter over.
Menelvagor Valar: aye :-)
Menelvagor Valar: A shortcut to Shrooms ensues :-)
VardaValar1: For accurate data, it's best to go to original sources as much as possible.
VardaValar1: That's why our Tolkien Site is supposed to be based on
original sources. We don't need to add longer life to misinformation.
VardaValar1: And like Menel said, next week we take on Chapter 4, "A Short Cut to Mushrooms". :-)
VardaValar1: Does anyone have anything else to add? A cheer maybe? : )
VardaValar1: *swings gavel*
Menelvagor Valar: Finally a meeting I have attended again.
Menelvagor Valar: Next week I'll probably be here as well :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Week after, board game club is back in action.
VardaValar1: Nice :-)
VardaValar1: Might check on the rp, see if you want to put in a comment or have a suggestion for us.
VardaValar1: Sauron and Bilbo are headed into WoW for our After-meeting run, and I'll be there shortly.
ArPharazonV: have fun
VardaValar1: Thanks :-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe is there too
VardaValar1: and Elwing is there
VardaValar1 has left the room.
karakedi25 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript