Valar Guild

April 24, 2011 Sunday Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (6)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar (presiding), Glorfindel VG, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, and VardaValar1

Meeting begins
       The Lothar Valar Guild branch hit level 8 during the After-meeting.
    Eonwe's topic: Consider Saruman, his treachery and fall, as it compares to Morgoth and to Sauron.
    WoW discussion of Death Knights and of profession leveling.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya again :-)
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
AriehnV: heya :-)
Eonwe Valar: We'll begin the meeting in a moment and try to make it a quick one.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya and
VardaValar1: Happy Easter! :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya Varda and Happy Easter :}
ArPharazonV: Happy easter :-)
AriehnV: Happy Easter indeed :-)
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's get the meeting started so we can get back to Easter festivities :}

Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership.
Eonwe Valar: Ulmo's LotRO account was hacked earlier in the week apparently, so make sure you're taking good care of your personal info.
VardaValar1: He got his stuff back. Key-logger on Ulmo's computer was specific to the game and apparently Ventrilo.
Eonwe Valar: Yeah, gotta be careful where you download stuff from as well.
VardaValar1: LotRO has greatly improved their response, returning all items. But each character must be asked for individually.
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: I saw one of his characters getting his stuff returned within a short time indeed after asking, maybe because he had gone through it once with the first character.
VardaValar1: Happy Easter, Glorfindel. : )
AriehnV: yuck i dont download stuff much anymore for that reason since i picked up that Trojan, just using wow matrix mostly actually
Glorfindel VG: Aiya. Happy Easter :-)
AriehnV: Happy Easter :-)
Eonwe Valar: Happy Easter all :}
ArPharazonV: Aye, you just have to keep on it. I waited 6 days for the stuff to be returned that was taken from our guildbank, and it was not until I sent another ticket that it was returned to me immediately, yesterday.
VardaValar1: I use an anti-virus very frequently after the WoW problem. No problems since. May it stay that way.
Eonwe Valar: Any other member news real quick before we move on to Web?
VardaValar1: Grats on getting it Phar. : )
ArPharazonV: thanks :-)
VardaValar1: Kin bank stuff was sent to Ulmo since it was taken on his character, main difference in handling.
VardaValar1: May you all be happily stuffed with food and fun today!
ArPharazonV: Well I was the one who sent the ticket, and the hacked player hasn't been online yet. So it wouldn't work that way.
ArPharazonV: I hope you're not all eating yourselves sick on chocolate eggs ;-)
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: Aiya

Eonwe Valar: OK, let's move on to Web:
karakedi25: (am in LotRO, in the Glacier Fortress, so will be quite distracted. Will try to follow as well as I can)
karakedi25: One thing for membership...
Eonwe Valar: Nothing to report from me for Web News at the moment, but as always I've got something going in the background, hehe.
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis and Happy Easter. : )
karakedi25: I'll be away beginning Thursday, on the West Coast, away until 5/12. Cruise, visits, generally vacation, but as usual, somewhat messed up schedule.
karakedi25: Same to you.
Eonwe Valar: Take care while travelling :}
Eonwe Valar: Did you have any Web news, Varda?
VardaValar1: Have a good trip
karakedi25: thanks
VardaValar1: Nothing new online yet.
Eonwe Valar: ok

Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: LotRO:
Eonwe Valar: Monday Run:
Eonwe Valar: Monday 8pm instance run was in Carn Dum helping Galdor pick up his class item and others work on or finish deeds. Participants: Galdor (burglar Andwegar), Indis (rune-keeper Tengwarien), Nimrodel (lore-master Wildwyn), Pippin (warden Illiardo), and Varda (minstrel Tinwetari).
Eonwe Valar: Wednesday Run:
Eonwe Valar: Moria instance Forges: We completed Forges all the way through, then did the lore-master class quest that comes after Krankluk, then cleared anything left that might hold up it's head and explored odd tunnels or causeways not normally looked at. We cleared a backlog of quests and got well into or completed deeds. Participants: Gildor (guardian Marrella), Gorlim (minstrel Aeronwy), Maedhros (champion Galadhalion), Nimrodel (lore-master Wildwyn), Pippin (warden Illiardo), and Varda (minstrel Tinwetari). Others who volunteered but that we sadly couldn't fit in were Malbeth (hunter Etheron) and Indis.
Eonwe Valar: The 4th Anniversary celebration is also going on, so enjoy the festivities.

Eonwe Valar: WoW:
VardaValar1: April 19-May 2 festival LotRO
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Sunday Run:
Eonwe Valar: Participants: Members: Eonwë, Varda, Elwing, Fangorn, EowynGuild Friends: Schlep
Eonwe Valar: First, Eonwe, Varda, Elwing, Fangorn, and Schlep went into Stonecore to complete the quests for those who hadn't yet. The run went fairly smoothly.
Eonwe Valar: Afterwards, Eonwe traded out with Eowyn, and the group ran the Vortex Pinnacle.Eonwe Valar: Friday Run:
Eonwe Valar: Eowyn, Elwing, and Eonwë popped into a normal random dungeon and ended up in the Halls of Origination.
Eonwe Valar: Obviously, we made it through alive :}
ArPharazonV: Hmm, you didn't get Azeroth reoriginated? Good for you :-)
Eonwe Valar: There's also a chance the 4.1 patch will come this Tuesday, bringing with it a new tier of Heroics and some other interesting changes, so we'll see where we stand by this time next week :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other gaming before we close the business portion of the meeting?
ArPharazonV: Well, it's Noblegarden!
ArPharazonV: in WoW, time to hunt eggs and find clothing and bunny ears and much chocolate
Eonwe Valar: That's right, it's Noblegarden time in WoW :} Thanks Phar :}
AriehnV: oops one wee thing to add in Membership news if i may
AriehnV: i forgot
Eonwe Valar: If you're going for the meta-achievement with the free fastest flying speed and mount, then you should get these done while you can :}
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead.
AriehnV: Helm V is not well at the moment some lung infectiion and his asthma went bad a couple of weeks ago
AriehnV: but he is at home and has tomorrow an xray
Eonwe Valar: Sorry to hear he's not well.
ArPharazonV: Ah, so that's why he's only been skinning and other stuff in WoW? He did say something about not being able to do anything bigger.
AriehnV: yup thats the reason
AriehnV: he was still quite weak on Friday .. if anyone has had the experience you ll kinow that coughing lives you quite week if ur not carefull
AriehnV: he s got some medication for it and he himself is positive that he will get over it
AriehnV: and obviously still got the guts and energy to game and make gold ^^
AriehnV: that was that :-) i am done
VardaValar1: Poor Helm.
Glorfindel VG: :-(
AriehnV: :-(
ArPharazonV: Aye, I hope he gets better soon.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.

Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: Since some of us would no doubt like to get back to Easter festivities, I give you a homework assignment rather than a Tolkien topic.
Eonwe Valar: Consider Saruman, his treachery and fall, as it compares to Morgoth and to Sauron.
VardaValar1: He at least had the excuse of having part of his memory unavailable and loss of a part of his power. The other too, not much excuse at all.
ArPharazonV: The others just wanted more.
ArPharazonV: Power, that is.
VardaValar1: His empire was much smaller but he would've liked to have had a much larger one.
VardaValar1: Saruman may have fallen due to despair. Sauron by seduction. Morgoth fell because he wanted to have the power of Eru.
VardaValar1: All wanted power.
AriehnV: i had the impression that he digged a bit too dip into ringlore , maybe out of pure curiosity first
ArPharazonV: Aye, but the other two didn't have to lose part of their power before they wanted more
AriehnV: and then got the wrong idea of the use it
AriehnV: Saruman had a lot of power before he got involved with the white council .. he was a Maia after all and a powerful one
ArPharazonV: What Vala did Saruman serve before going across the sea, by the way?
Eonwe Valar: I imagine he got a good look at the ringlore, saw what Sauron was doing, considered how useful it would be in organizing the effort against Sauron, and it all went downhill from there.
VardaValar1: Wasn't it Aule? Saruman was a crafting type, went into ring-making.
Eonwe Valar: Saruman was a Maia of Aulë, aye.
ArPharazonV: Yes, that's what I thought....
VardaValar1: Aye, he dug deep into Ring-lore, but he also despaired that the Valar side would win.
ArPharazonV: interesting, because Sauron was a Maia of Aulë as well
VardaValar1: Aye, crafters tended to be the ones going bad, if they didn't have Aule's attitude of make it and let it go.
AriehnV: the Noldo had the same traid btw
VardaValar1: Aye
karakedi25: Yes, somehow Morgoth tended to attract Maiar of Aule.
AriehnV: but they were crafters and much interacted with aule
Eonwe Valar: Melkor was nearest to Aulë in powers, it is said. That helps.
karakedi25: OK, sorry folks, I have to leave for a family thing again. MIght be able to get back on the phone.
karakedi25: Namarie
AriehnV: Namarie Indis
ArPharazonV: Let's not forget that Aulë himself once grew impatient and disobeyed Eru, though Eru forgave him for it.
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Eonwe Valar: Enjoy the family time :}
karakedi25: Perhaps Tolkien's treatment of crafters is related to his suspicion of machines and technology.
karakedi25: *wave*
karakedi25 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Aulë, when scolded, took the reprimand as he should have: he realized his error and repented of it.
VardaValar1: I agree with Indis' comment on Tolkien's dislike of the industrial world.
Eonwe Valar: I don't think it's that. I recall reading Dwarves being particularly skilled in the natural sciences.
Eonwe Valar: I think Aulë would represent a proper respect for the natural world, whereas Morgoth and his servants bring a disrepect and rampant industrialization of it.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, like Aulë, the 3 others got at least one chance to repent and be forgiven... and all three fell back into their old ways.
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Aye to Eonwe and to Phar : )
VardaValar1: Aule married Yavanna. That's respect for the natural world. : )
ArPharazonV: Morgoth, after being chained in Mandos, fell back to evil; Sauron rejected forgiveness and fled at the end of the First Age; and Saruman was pleaded with when Isengard fell, and ended up throwing the Shire into chaos.
Eonwe Valar: Aulë and Yavanna get into an argument about the tendencies of Eru's children with the resources of Arda. Aulë's attitude is that they *will* chop trees down, dig up the ground, etc., but not without a due repsect if they are following Eru's purpose.
Eonwe Valar: *due respect
Glorfindel VG: Orcs, Orcs, and more Orcs
Eonwe Valar: Saruman might've had more chances than either of the other two. He could've returned to good any time after Isengard fell, but instead he fell to the pettiest of evil: causing trouble for trouble's sake.
Glorfindel VG has left the room.
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Saruman did try to beat Sauron to the One Ring
VardaValar1: Aye, Saruman had the most chance to return.
Eonwe Valar: Morgoth was locked alone in Mandos. Sauron hid himself in Middle-Earth alone. Saruman was forced to listen to Fangorn, hehe.
Glorfindel VG: Even after the overthrow of Sauron he wouldn't take it
Glorfindel VG: Would you say Sauron was loyal to Morgoth, or was he in it all for himself?
ArPharazonV: Well, he did use Morgoth's name, trying to get the Numenoreans to worship him as the one true god... but whether he did it for his own purpose or out of loyalty, who can say?
Eonwe Valar: He was loyal to Morgoth while Morgoth was in Arda.
VardaValar1: He did serve Morgoth --- what Eonwe said. Fast typist
Eonwe Valar: If he could, he would likely help Morgoth when he returned to Arda.
Eonwe Valar: In the time between though, carrying out his own designs ends up helping Morgoth enough anyway.
ArPharazonV: Would he put effort in bringing about Morgoth's return, if he could?
Eonwe Valar: Only if he thought he could defeat the Valar, and I'm pretty sure he knew better than that.
Eonwe Valar: He didn't send Pharazon's fleet to Aman because he thought they stood a chance. He sent it to get rid of Numenor.
ArPharazonV: That's true.
ArPharazonV: And maybe do some damage to the Valar in the process.
ArPharazonV: or to Aman, anyway
VardaValar1: After Morgoth was overthrown, Sauron came to Eonwe and abjured his evil deeds. Some say at first it was not falsely done, and may have done so out of fear. But Eonwe could not pardon him and said he had to ask Manwe. But Sauron couldn't bear the humiliation of it.
Eonwe Valar: He knew the Valar would have to take action. He just didn't know the valar would invoke Eru.
VardaValar1: "The Rings of Power and the Third Age" Sil.
Eonwe Valar: If I said "Aye, that's how I remember it," that could carry a double meaning, hehe. :}
Eonwe Valar: (One in-character and one out :})
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Sauron was considered less evil than Morgoth mainly because for so long he truly served Morgoth.
Glorfindel VG: Let's ask Sauron how he remembers it
VardaValar1: I can call downstairs and ask? : )
Glorfindel VG: heh
Glorfindel VG: Saruman on the other hand, sought to betray those he served
VardaValar1: Osse was the only Maia that went over and then actually returned to the Valar.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: True about Saruman. Good point.
VardaValar1: Twice!
VardaValar1: Osse was promised the power of Ulmo. Quite a gift.
ArPharazonV: Aiming for promotion, was he? :-)
VardaValar1: Aule asked Uinen to restrain Osse. Osse was brought to Ulmo where he was pardoned and returned to his allegiance. But he never completely got over the delight in violence.
VardaValar1: aye : )
VardaValar1: So Morgoth left Osse a little grey, no longer so white, so to speak.
VardaValar1: I need to go cook. See you folks later, likely in our Sunday WoW time, even if just where we wave hi!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
AriehnV: right then enjoy and cook something nice
VardaValar1: Namarie and have a great evening and night!
AriehnV: dont burn the food :-)
VardaValar1: lol
Glorfindel VG: Namarie. Happy Easter
VardaValar1: Festive black stuff I'll serve Sauron!
VardaValar1: Cheers : )
VardaValar1 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I guess we ended up completing our homework tonight, hehe :}
Glorfindel VG: I think we did ::P
Eonwe Valar: I'd intended to bang the gavel right after the assignment, but since we started disucssing it, I let it go :} Now is a good time to bang the gavel though :}
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*

Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting :}
Glorfindel VG: haha
Eonwe Valar: Happy Easter all :}
Glorfindel VG: Eonwe, do you recommend that I upgrade to Death Knight? I'm nearly at that point.
Eonwe Valar: It's not an upgrade, only a playstyle choice.
ArPharazonV: Prestige class? :-)
Glorfindel VG: I'll have to get WOTLK
Eonwe Valar: The "hero class" isn't more powerful than a regular class, it just starts at a higher level and gets a couple of perks.
Eonwe Valar: Oh, you mean "upgrade" as in to the next expansion?
Glorfindel VG: Well, I was curious what the difference between a warrior and dk were
Eonwe Valar: Playstly.e Death Knight is still a melee class, but you use cold and diseases alot.
Glorfindel VG: to determine if I should upgrade to the next expansion
Eonwe Valar: *Playstyle.
Eonwe Valar: Death KNights has runes and runic power for their abilities instead of rage.
Glorfindel VG: I'm sure I'll need to upgrade eventually in any case
ArPharazonV: In Warcraft III Death Knight was pretty much the opposite of a Paladin.
Glorfindel VG: Gotcha
Eonwe Valar: Aye, you'll need Burning Crusaed -> Wrath of the Lich King -> Cataclysm, in that order, if you're to proceed to the top level.
Eonwe Valar: *Crusade. Bah. Too many typos.
Glorfindel VG: I have BC
Eonwe Valar: Ah, ok.
ArPharazonV: Also, Death Knights use no shields, and can have ghoul pets.
Glorfindel VG: But yeah, I'll probably upgrade soon
Glorfindel VG: Really?
Glorfindel VG: That changes everything
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Death Knights, even tanking Death Knights, don't use shields.
Eonwe Valar: They rely more on parry instead of block.
Eonwe Valar: And to be clear, they don't use shields because they *can't* use shields :}
Glorfindel VG: I may just stick with warrior
Eonwe Valar: DKs do have some self-healing abilities, though.
Eonwe Valar: Not Paladin-level, but stuff that help them keep themselves up to an extent.
Glorfindel VG: Once I get the next expansions, I'll probably want to create a Worgen character
Eonwe Valar: Actually, probably Paladin-level just not like a regular heal.
Glorfindel VG: Gotcha
Eonwe Valar: The Worgen starting zone is worth at least one playthrough, in my opinion.
Glorfindel VG: The evil equivalent to the Paladin
Eonwe Valar: They've got better at that over time.
Glorfindel VG: They certainly look fun

Glorfindel VG: I've hit the big 5 0
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
Glorfindel VG: thanks
Glorfindel VG: I need some new challenges I think
Glorfindel VG: The quests I'm on seem far too easy

Glorfindel VG: One annoying thing I have to deal with is to travel back to lower level areas to obtain copper ore and linen cloth for my professions :-\
Glorfindel VG: Since I didn't bother so much with those before
Glorfindel VG: And all my professions require higher skill than what I have
Glorfindel VG: I wonder if it's even worth it
AriehnV: 44 on my drood ^^
ArPharazonV: Well, that's the trouble if you don't keep up your professions as you level through the zones.
AriehnV: and thatz why i am a bit slow in levelling because i try to keep up with the profz
ArPharazonV: Might be better off just levelling to max and then continuing your profession.
Eonwe Valar: You can try the AH, but of course there's no guarantee your materials will be cheap.
Eonwe Valar: Make sure you check the pre-60 guild tab for stuff useful to your characters as well. It tends to get full, heh.
Eonwe Valar: And check for glyphs in the glyph tab so we can get that cleaned out :}
Glorfindel VG: I just discovered that a few days ago :-D
Glorfindel VG: Certainly an awesome discovery
AriehnV: well the max quick levelling later you can do only if you got enough gold in spare and a character to supply the finances
Eonwe Valar: :}
Glorfindel VG: Do you use the auction house often?
Eonwe Valar: I don't use it much.
Glorfindel VG: My stuff never sells
Eonwe Valar: Some stuff doesn't. Some low level stuff it's hard to sell.
ArPharazonV: Not so bad, Arien. Once you get fast travel methods and outlevel the gathering areas it's much faster to collect stuff.
Eonwe Valar: Your best bet for armor/weapons is to see what equivalent pieces are selling for, and price around that.
Glorfindel VG: Or just sell it to a vendor and be done with it
Glorfindel VG: which is what i usually end up doing
Eonwe Valar: There's that too.
ArPharazonV: Or disenchant it ;-)
Eonwe Valar: If you have an enchanter, or know a low level one, having that stuff turned into low level enchanting mats can be useful too.
Eonwe Valar: What Phar said :}
Eonwe Valar: Then the enchanting materials can be used either to enchant your gear, or more likely sell easier on the AH than the weapon/armor it was originally.
Glorfindel VG: I'll have to try that
Glorfindel VG: Thanks for the advice :-)
Eonwe Valar: MP :}
Eonwe Valar: And Phar's too I'm sure :}
Glorfindel VG: Of course

AriehnV: Wooho Valar guild Level 8 :-)
ArPharazonV: Grats!
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
AriehnV: Bedtime here , nn :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending