Valar Guild

September 12, 2010 Sunday Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

Back to News
Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (8)
    ArathornValar, AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar (presiding), fladrifv, Galdor-(V)/galdorandwe, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1

Meeting begins
    New Full Member: Rory Brandybuck-(V)
    Arathorn-(V) returned after the loss of internet for a year.
    New story today: "Guarding the Heedless Folk" by Branwyn-(T)
    Forum (ours) revamp work and suggestions
    GSMU: Games Site Mass Update
    Galdor's topic: other battles going on during the War of the Ring.
    Tolkien chat continues
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Made it!
Eonwe Valar: Heya :}
VardaValar1: I've been called away to help with a rug, shouldn't take but three minutes. Feel free to start!
Eonwe Valar: Still got some time :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok, I admit it, the video on the page is actually amusing :}
Eonwe Valar:
Eonwe Valar: Not sure how long it'll show there since it wasn't the video they had last time I actually let it run, but it's amusing :}
ArPharazonV: Aiya all!
ArPharazonV: Was away for a while, but still on time.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Phar :}
Eonwe Valar: I suppose it's about time to invite everyone :}
ArPharazonV: the 1:10 minute video?
VardaValar1: back
fladrifv has entered the room.
galdorandwe has entered the room.
fladrifv: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, yeah, it's 1 min, 10 sec, Phar.
galdorandwe: Aiya....
VardaValar1: Is that the Gandalf with the crowd video?
Eonwe Valar: So that *should* be the one ;}
ArPharazonV: good, then I know I've got the right one
ArPharazonV: yeah, it is
Eonwe Valar: Yes :}
VardaValar1: Fun :-)
Eonwe Valar: It was amusing :}
VardaValar1: He's a crowd-pleaser. ;-)
ArathornValar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: All invitations have been sent out, so we'll begin shortly.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arathorn
VardaValar1: Aiya Arathorn. Long time no see at a meeting. : ) Got your LotROmail.
ArathornValar: heya .. been ahile since Ive used this ;-p
ArathornValar: er while
ArPharazonV: Aiya Arathorn :-)
VardaValar1: It's changed a lot. Not sure for the better. But as long as we can still meet!
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arathorn.
ArathornValar: Yeah I just got internet back this month
ArathornValar: Hiya ;-)
ArPharazonV: the RP is still going if Haran wants to come back ;-)
ArathornValar: O wow thats a blas tfrom the past .. I'll have to create an id again =p
Eonwe Valar: I can't imagine the explanation Haran would have to have, hehe.
ArathornValar: I see that Lotro is free now so I popped back on .. also Everquest 2 is free Ive been downloading it past cpl days big file =p
VardaValar1: Grats on getting the internet back.
VardaValar1: Planning on a lot of EQ2?
ArathornValar: thx .. no money = no fun-ney sadley ;-p
VardaValar1: Rough economy all over, aye.
ArathornValar: Ive never played it so Ill have to learn it if it ever downloads =p
VardaValar1: That would help. : )
ArathornValar: actually I think we played it together way back when once .. I had ad emo or some such
ArathornValar: *demo
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's begin the meeting. I'm chairing.
VardaValar1: I'm passing the gavel to Eonwe. Not sure if I'll have to suddenly break out and help with the rugs and furniture.

Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: New Member: Rory Brandybuck.
Eonwe Valar: If he were here, he'd get his few words :}
Eonwe Valar: I got a chance to meet him earlier in the week, and he seems a good fellow, if that helps any :}
VardaValar1: Rory's AIM for your buddy lists is cipher nemo
Eonwe Valar: Any other Membership news?
ArPharazonV: with a space?
VardaValar1: Thank you to Indis for scouting Rory.
VardaValar1: That's how he showed it to me.
ArathornValar: Eonwe seems to have a space too
ArathornValar: guess you can ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
karakedi25: you're most welcome
VardaValar1: I'll try it both ways.
ArPharazonV: allright
ArPharazonV: should be good now
VardaValar1: Says it already exists in my buddy list.
Eonwe Valar: I had no problems adding "cipher nemo" to my buddy list, and threw on his guild name for the nickname.
ArathornValar: I seemed to add it but dont know where it went not in offline or anywhere else ;-p
AriehnV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: It shows him in offline for me.
ArathornValar: ahh ok shows the nickname I gave him good
VardaValar1: Same here.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien : )
Eonwe Valar: Last call for membership news before we move to Web.
AriehnV: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: I just stored it in the buddy comment. Looks like I can't put in a nickname in this version.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Arien!
karakedi25: aiya Arien :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arien.
ArathornValar: ooh I like that smiley icon you have Arien =)
AriehnV: thankies :-D
VardaValar1: That one makes me want to laugh.

Eonwe Valar: OK, on to Web :
ArPharazonV: The shiny beady eyes always creep me out.

VardaValar1: New here.
VardaValar1: Under Stories:
VardaValar1: Branwyn-(T) now has "Guarding the Heedless Folk", a 4-chapter story, on our site.
VardaValar1: That's my report for the Tolkien Site for this week.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks, Varda.

Eonwe Valar: In other web news, Forum:
Eonwe Valar: You may have noticed that the descriptions of boards now have links to the important sub-boards within.
Eonwe Valar: I hope they prove useful.
VardaValar1: Thanks for changing the order the games are shown too!
karakedi25: Nice to see the improvements, and thanks, Eonwe :-)
Eonwe Valar: I've also put an updated "Channel Meeting Info" thread in the Community general board. Varda, if you see anything in that thread I've missed, feel free to let me know.
Eonwe Valar: It's properly called "AIM Channel and Meeting Info"
galdorandwe: Is it OK ot ask a question about the new updates to LoTRO?
karakedi25: might it not make sense to put "Meeting Info" first?
VardaValar1: Maybe LotRO In-world rp, etc could show where the old "Scouting Ahead" that started in it has moved, after it became less LotRO-based?
karakedi25: thus Kinship Meeting and AIM Channel Info
Eonwe Valar: To address Indis' comment: I put how to get in first so people will know the "how" before they get to the "when" :}
karakedi25: don't they need to know the 'what'?
VardaValar1: Where do they go to find the News page?
karakedi25: and I'd guess the meeting is what they're looking for
Eonwe Valar: The what is the AIM channel, from my understanding. We can use the AIM channel at any time. The meeting is the most important event in said channel, if that makes sense.
Eonwe Valar: Are we discussing the topic name or the content therein, just to make sure I'm addressing the right thing?
karakedi25: I'm addressing the topic name (navigation)
Eonwe Valar: Ok, fair enough.
Eonwe Valar: I would like the title to convey that the meeting channel can be used for more than *just* the meeting.
galdorandwe has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I'm willing to take suggestions on what it should be.
karakedi25: How about a heading like 'Communicating with the Guild' under which are two categories, meetings and aim
ArPharazonV: meetings are a part of AIM though, aren't they?
VardaValar1: Ok, found the News. It's under Guild Announcements instead of Community General.
VardaValar1: There are more ways than AIM for communicating with the guild.
karakedi25: I'm not thinking about logic; the issue is helping people find things.
karakedi25: yes, and those can be included as well
Eonwe Valar: This thread is specifically to help members get together in AIM.
Eonwe Valar: I had considered of another linking to the primary guild sections/pages/sites.
Eonwe Valar: I'm basically trying to either update or establish some of the info in the proper places under the new board intentions. I'd like to note that while I did move several threads from one board to another, I did not devote time to an exhaustive move.
Eonwe Valar: The easiest way to look at it probably is to just assume that any of the old threads that don't fit the sated intention are grandfathered in and there for posterity, but further posts should be in the proper places.
VardaValar1: Getting it set up first is most important, and it looks like you've done a terrific job on that! Looks are good too.
Eonwe Valar: sated = stated
VardaValar1: The sub stuff under the main really helps find things, thanks.
Eonwe Valar: Any comments on posts that contain pertinent info that look like they're in the wrong place can be addressed to me in a side window, and I'll save the side window for reflection as I'm taking a look at it on the forum.
ArathornValar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Or you can e-mail me if you're not here today at the meeting and reading this :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other concerns about this particular thread?
Eonwe Valar: If not, I'll address Varda's comment next by asking what she means by "Maybe LotRO In-world rp, etc could show where the old "Scouting Ahead" that started in it has moved, after it became less LotRO-based?" :}
AriehnV: cant find the aim thread
VardaValar1: Just a link, maybe.
ArPharazonV: "If you're looking for the RP that was in here at one point, go to [insert link here] that sort of thing
ArPharazonV: Only with more specific detail, of course.
Eonwe Valar: Ah, I misread that the first time, hehe. I was under the impression that the fact it was on the front page would be a big clue where it was, but you have a point. A link to the new board can be put in the LotRO RP sub-board.
ArathornValar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: The link in the news fader on the forum does point to the correct place, by the way.
ArathornValar: hrm got booted
Eonwe Valar: In case anyone was curious about that.
VardaValar1: I like the way the AIM Channel and Meeting Info is set up, but perhaps a new member could tell us more about what he might need.
Eonwe Valar: Aye. I certainly do welcome comments and questions. It gives us a chance to reflect on things.
Eonwe Valar: If there's nothing further on this topic, we can move on with Web News.

Eonwe Valar: As a last note, I'd like to remind people to check both their inbox and their junk folders for their Games Site Mass-Update e-mail. Every Full Member who has an e-mail listed on the Members Page should've got one last week.
VardaValar1: If you didn't get one, feel free to email your info to Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, don't let *not* getting one stand in your way of sending the Gaming Info in :}
VardaValar1: You can send it to me too, but I'll forward it to Eonwe. : )
Eonwe Valar: For those who do not know what I'm asking for, it is as follows:
VardaValar1: Aye, being able to say "not gaming at this time" also helps.
Eonwe Valar: 1.) What online games do you play that you'd like to find other Valar Guild members playing?
Eonwe Valar: 2.) What names do you go by on those games? (in order for people to be able to contact you there)
Eonwe Valar: If you don't have time for games right now, knowing that also helps.
Eonwe Valar: Responding to the GSMU counts as contact, so if you haven't been heard from in a while, it's a good idea to respond.
ArathornValar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Oh, one more point of order I almost missed buried in between Varda's and Indis' comments..
Eonwe Valar: Galdor asked: "Is it OK ot ask a question about the new updates to LoTRO?"
Eonwe Valar: I just wanted to make it clear that Yes, it is ok, when we're in the Gaming section, to ask questiosn about games. If it's a game we have a regular segment for, it would be asked under that segment.
ArathornValar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: If you whisper the chair that you have a question, he/she will make an extra effort to make sure you get to ask your question, or even answer them if we have the answer and it's a quick or easy one :}
ArathornValar has left the room.

Eonwe Valar: OK, on to Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: We'll start with LotRO since it has the biggest news.
Eonwe Valar: LotRO is Free-to-Play now :}
VardaValar1: We've had a few people drop by on the Free to Play option already, more who may be coming.
ArathornValar has entered the room.
karakedi25: Rory joined us because of f2p, as he has friends who wanted to play with him
ArathornValar: f2p?
Eonwe Valar: f2p = free-to-play :}
VardaValar1: f2p is Free to Play. Leet speak, heh.
ArathornValar: sorry I got bumped out again ..
VardaValar1: Glad you can make it back in. Last week I couldn't get in at all.
ArathornValar: I need to upgrade after this meeting ;-p
Eonwe Valar: The LotRO servers are feeling the strain of having not only everyone coming back to experience the new content, but the new free-to-play people coming in too, so forgive a little bit of rubber-banding and lag for the time being.
Eonwe Valar: Or at least, Landroval is, to be more specific :} Things may vary depending on time of day, of course.
karakedi25: as it turns out, it seems to be a network problem, according the 'blue names'
VardaValar1: The main problem yesterday seemed to have been a bad switch - hardware.
karakedi25: at one point almost all the servers, including some of the new ones, had queues and lag, etc.
ArathornValar: Ill probably be trying it out again later
Eonwe Valar: Ah, thanks for that bit of info.
ArathornValar: not sure what I have access to playing free for now
Eonwe Valar: Free has access to the original content from the launch of the game.
VardaValar1: You have up to level 50 and those areas. Quite a bit.
karakedi25: I went into Landroval about 20 mins ago, and there was no queue
ArathornValar: do they still have the 'life' paymentavailable>
ArathornValar: ?
VardaValar1: You can earn in-game points and add to your free to play abilities.
Eonwe Valar: I don't beleive so, Arathorn.
VardaValar1: They have Lifer pay now and then, not lately.
Eonwe Valar: It's just regular subscription now.
karakedi25: free doesn't get the upgrades (new land masses like Forochel) though. Have to get those through the store
ArathornValar: so do you have to pay now? o.O
ArathornValar: you had life didnt you?
Eonwe Valar: If you bought the lifetime deal, you don't have to pay, no.
ArathornValar: ahh
VardaValar1: I have life, not affected by the free to play.
Eonwe Valar: I may never have to pay real money for LotRO again, so long as I save up my free monthly Turbine Points, hehe :}
VardaValar1: Nice thought!
Eonwe Valar: One sec, Arathorn, I'll dig up a link for the descriptions of the different player tiers.
Eonwe Valar: In the meantime, Varda, would you like to tell about our runs for the week?
Eonwe Valar: Or Indis can, whichever you'd prefer :}
karakedi25: Varda might want to, as I missed the Monday one
karakedi25: and truth to tell don't remember what we did on Weds.
VardaValar1: I was not able to be present for the Monday run. Showed up very late afterwards.
VardaValar1: On Wednesday, the group did Grand Stairs while I was testing.
VardaValar1: That was the same time that Rory and I got together, and the run was over before we were done with the test.
karakedi25: he said it was very difficult :-)
VardaValar1: We spent a lot of time this week checking out the new area of Enedwaith, which is for level 65's.
Eonwe Valar: I think I was typing a letter during the Monday run :}
Eonwe Valar: Hopefully those of you in LotRO know what I'm talking about :}
ArathornValar: hmm does that mean for free it's no usebuying the expansion?
ArathornValar: or doe you even buy it anymore?
karakedi25: for those who don't, it's a new area south of Eregion, and beautiful, though plenty of enemies
ArathornValar: <confusion>
Eonwe Valar: For those who don't, as part of my celebration of our 13th Anniversary, I'm sending a letter series through LotRO mail called "What you can do in the Valar Guild" based on the section of our site's FAQ by the same name.
VardaValar1: Arathorn is asking about whether he should buy the expansion.
VardaValar1: First you have to buy the main game.
ArathornValar: yeah I have that and the moria
ArathornValar: never got teh next one
ArathornValar: *the
VardaValar1: But you are not paying a subscription, but are on free to play.
Eonwe Valar: For reference on the different tiers of LotRO players:
Eonwe Valar:
AriehnV: i like those letters it reallie gets to the point
Eonwe Valar: From my understanding, if you at any time paid money for LotRO, you should be at least a Premium player.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Arien :} LotRO kinship mail helps keep it quite concise with its character limit :}
ArathornValar: Yeah it mentioned in an email that I am premium .. not sure what that means though ;-p
Eonwe Valar: Check the VIP chart in the link and it'll tell you what you have access to :}
ArathornValar: just opened that link thx
Eonwe Valar: The three tiers are Free-to-Play, Premium, and VIP.
ArathornValar: ashh ok I see teh middle is premium .. readin on ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: If Arathorn is not paying anything at this time, he would not be considered in the payer classes. [note: he would be Premium.]
Eonwe Valar: I remember reading from somewhere that anyone who paid money for LotRO wouldn't go below Premium.
Eonwe Valar: I'd have to go digging for that reference, so it's going to have to wait until After-meeting.
Eonwe Valar: Is there any other LotRO news before we move to WoW?

Eonwe Valar: WoW:
Eonwe Valar: The first phase of the Pre-Cataclysm Event has begun with the efforts to retake Gnomeregan and the Echo Isles for the Alliance and the Horde, respectively.
Eonwe Valar: Make sure you get your level 75+ characters their Feat of Strength while you can.
Eonwe Valar: In addition, the 4.0.1 patch is now on the Public Test Realm, so we're not far off at all.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar: The usual suspects were on. Nob is blasting through the levels, if he didn't reach 80 already :} Menel is gearing up his Pally, and I've picked up my fourth piece of T10.
Eonwe Valar: I saw Sauron and Elwing on, and I think I saw Fangorn on.
Eonwe Valar: Ah yes, he was grouped with that Varda person for the Gnomeregan event :}
VardaValar1: We tried to group with Elwing for that event, but her dial-up connection killed her. She's at our house now and has blasted through Gnomeregan.
Eonwe Valar: I can imagine that event would be horrible on dial-up.
Eonwe Valar: Especially with everyone trying to do it.
Eonwe Valar: Uldaman: I popped over here, and did as much of the Echo Isles chain as I could. As I was nowhere near 75, and not likely to be before the event ends, I guess I won't be getting the Feat of Strength there.
ArPharazonV: It went remarkably smooth for me. I figured I'd be lagging to bits and have a slideshow in front of me, but even with mass people together fighting it all went smooth.
ArPharazonV: Gnomeregan that is. Don't have a horde anywhere over lvl 7.
AriehnV: i had trouble picking the npc int the chaos alas but found him relatively fast
AriehnV: i have played both Echo Isles and Gnomeregan and Echo Isles in my opinion is slightly more fun ;-)
ArathornValar: yeah
VardaValar1: I've heard people make the comment both ways. : )
Eonwe Valar: I thought both were good for what they were. I don't see the overwhelming awesomeness in the favor of the Horde that some people seem to.
ArathornValar: but it does get silly with so many people cnt even tell if you're hitting anything
ArPharazonV: I've read the scripts to both. I've only actually seen Gnomeregan, but Echo Isles seems more fun, and more consequential in the end.
AriehnV: The Gnomregan end is not very satisfying but i know they need that for the .. oops no spoiler here :-P
VardaValar1: Gnomeregan takes over the surface area, getting set for the next part.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, don't ruin it for anyone who hasn't done it :}
ArathornValar: *fingers in ears!* .LALALALA!!!
ArathornValar: oh wait I did it ;-p
Eonwe Valar: Just as a friendly reminder: Harvest Festival and Brewfest are coming up real soon.
ArathornValar: oohh right thanks
Eonwe Valar: All I need to do is kill Coren Direbrew and I'll have completed "What a Long , Strange Trip it's Been," and before anyone asks, yes, it's been a long, strange trip :}
ArPharazonV: Brewfest... oh, speaking of rare mounts, I got the red qiraji mount tonight ;-)
VardaValar1: Grats
ArathornValar: qiraji?
ArPharazonV: Ahn'Qiraj, the raidinstance in Silithus.
Eonwe Valar: OK, As I ask for any non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming news, I ask that you start whispering me Tolkien topics.
ArPharazonV: remember the 4 bug mounts?
ArathornValar: whats the mount look like?
ArathornValar: never been there
Eonwe Valar:
ArPharazonV: there's 4 coloured mounts, red is by far the rarest, the other 3 are rather common, and there's a feat of strength for getting the red one... 100% speed mounts that are only usable in the instance
galdorandwe has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: ..yeah, the page says it better

Eonwe Valar: OK, is ther eany non-WoW, non-LotRo gaming news?
galdorandwe: Aiya.
ArPharazonV: Did some Starcraft II this week.
ArPharazonV: Got myself a few achievements I'd missed when I first went through the missions, including the Feat of Strength for killing the Protoss in Welcome to the Jungle :-)
ArPharazonV: Next up will be getting 750 extra kills in In Utter Darkness, and then I'll continue on the second half of the campaign ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Good luck :}
ArPharazonV: And I did some multiplayer!
Eonwe Valar: D'oh, I should remember to mention that Blizzard released a new Starcraft 2 map: Burning Tide.
ArPharazonV: Tried out the custom maps, amazed at the variety of them, they seem almost as good as Warcraft III, even though Starcraft II at first glance seems to have a lot less in RPG elements.
Eonwe Valar: In order to get it, you have to go to multiplayer, click on it, and wait for it to download. Then you can use it in single-player if you want, but the computer AI is stuck at very easy.
ArPharazonV: Did an RPG map with levelling characters, and a Tower Defense (which I failed horribly at) and even a version of DotA, Defense of the Ancients, with levelling heroes, choosable abilities as you level, and even an inventory with objects to buy. I had no idea you could make those things.
Eonwe Valar: I haven't delved too deep into the SC2 editor yet, but it does seem to be quite extensive.
ArPharazonV: If the rumors are true and the Zerg campaign will be RPG-based, the custom maps should be receiving even more RPG elements if my guess is right... I'm looking forward to what people do with them, and I wonder if they will surpass Warcraft III in variety and polishing eventually.
Eonwe Valar: I'm sure they will.
Eonwe Valar: Wouldn't it be great to have some Tolkien-themed SC2 maps for the guild? *cough* *cough* *hint* *hint* :}
ArPharazonV: The editor scares me.
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArPharazonV: But maybe others!
Eonwe Valar: Any final gaming news before we move into Tolkien?
Eonwe Valar: ok

Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: We have two potential topics.
Eonwe Valar: We'll go with the first and see if we make it to the second.
Eonwe Valar: Galdor has suggested a discussion on the other battles going on during the War of the Ring, the opnes fought in Lothlorien, Mirkwood, and Erebor.
Eonwe Valar: What do we know about them?
VardaValar1: Lorien and Mirkwood were working together. Erebor was separate from them, more or less.
ArPharazonV: Appendix B has a short summary of them.
galdorandwe: Multiple sorties on Mothlorien...all failed. Treebeard and the Ents joined the last one.
ArPharazonV: Erebor and Dale worked together as well, of course, taking refuge in Erebor.
galdorandwe: Lothlorien, rather.
galdorandwe: I believe the actions of the Ents may have played into their expanded lands after the war of the ring.
VardaValar1: Aye, App B near the end, right after dropping in the Ring in the timeline.
VardaValar1: But aye, mostly the elves were working separately til they met in the mddle. Pardon.
VardaValar1: Three attacks on Lothlorien, aye.
VardaValar1: Aye, men and dwarves holed up in Erebor until the victory in the south dismayed the enemy forces, and they came out and fought.
galdorandwe: I recall that after the lords of Dale (decendent of Bard whose name escapes me) and the lord of Erebor (Dain?) look prettybad, but the ring was simultaneously destroyed at that point and the forces of dark had lost their driving force from Sauron and the men and Dwarves routed them...a similar thing happened in Northern Mirkwood. In UT there is an account of that in the Story of Galadriel and Celeborn...
VardaValar1: Routed them.
VardaValar1: Brand and Dain.
VardaValar1: Actually, Lorien is another way the book refers to Lothlorien, even though that is technically in Valinor.
galdorandwe: Here's an intersting thing to consider....Celborn and Thranduil met at Dol Godor after the victory...was that their first meeting since the war of the last alliance? or earlier than that? Either way, it mus have been a LOOONG time between meetings.
galdorandwe: at least an age.
galdorandwe: my speeling is hopeless, by the way :-)
ArPharazonV: They seemed to be happy in their own territories without visiting each other, aye.
ArPharazonV: Though Thranduil did aid in the battle of the Five Armies, I can't imagine either leader travelling much.
galdorandwe: yes...but Celeborn has Lothlorien territory in southern Mirkwood at one time...worth mentioning...he also got it back after the war.
fladrifv: namarie
ArPharazonV: namarie
galdorandwe: Namarie
Eonwe Valar: Namariė
Eonwe Valar: to whoever is leaving :}
VardaValar1: Those of Lothlorien and Mirkwood had some issues between them. Mirkwood had a philosophy of going back to nature, somewhat like the silvans. Lothlorien wanted to remain caught in a wonderful static state as close to Valinor as Galadriel could get.
VardaValar1: Namarie Flad!
ArathornValar: Actually I need to go make supper almost 7pm =-O .. Ill leave chat up to read later ;-)
VardaValar1: Namarie Arathorn
ArPharazonV: namarie!
VardaValar1: Also, Galadriel came to Middle-earth along with the kin-slayers.
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ArPharazonV: hmm... interesting philosophy contrast, but I do wonder... if Thranduil would have turned down an Elven Ring, or used it to preserve Mirkwood if he could.
VardaValar1: Thranduil's people were Sindarin, settling in among the Silvans.
galdorandwe: Oropher, Thranduil's father, had a practice of exclusion of other races and elven types...Thranduil was more open minded and saw the error of his father's ways...hence he employed the dwarvwed to build his halls and armour eventually (somehting his father didn't have in the war of the last alliance). He would have not had any issue with celeborn, I think.
VardaValar1: Since he was up against Sauron himself, he would probably have needed it, but would have then had to reveal its location to the Dark Lord.
VardaValar1: Oropher likely set up the original division. But Thranduil also saw his people and father cut down in the War of the Last Alliance.
VardaValar1: Little traffic went on between Lothlorien and Mirkwood. Legolas, even though a prince who might have been used as an ambassador, was not familiar with them.
galdorandwe: Here's something I find interesting....Treebeard left a few Ents (including himself) to watch over Isengard after Sauruman's fall. It's reported in one of the books, that he sent Ents to "see things are set to order" somewhere. I wonder if that meant they went to Lothlorien to assist with the battle..or if it was just that orcs from Moria AND Mirkwood were too close and invaded his lands.
galdorandwe: I believe the elves of Lothlorien knew who he was when he entered there with the fellowship, no?
AriehnV: (I have to go . sigh ... earlies tomorrow :-) - tiptoes out )
galdorandwe: namarie.
AriehnV: namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie Arien
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galdorandwe: What do you think the meeting of Thranduil and Celeborn was like?
VardaValar1: The wardens recognized the singing by Legolas.
galdorandwe: They were both proud elves.
VardaValar1: Friendly.
ArPharazonV: "Well, mate, glad that's over with. Let's have a pint."
galdorandwe: :-)
VardaValar1: They came together and renamed the forest together
galdorandwe: That's worth mentioning.
VardaValar1: calling the Eryn Lasgalen, the Wood of Greenleaves.
VardaValar1: calling *it Eryn Lasgalen, the Wood of Greenleaves.
galdorandwe: I also recall something about the 3 sorties on Lothlorien...somewhere i recall readin the power of Galadriel with the ring she had, helped repell the orcs...not to mention the big moat around the forest.
VardaValar1: Together they divided up the forest.
VardaValar1: Thranduil took the north as far as the mountains that rose up in the forest.
VardaValar1: Celeborn took the south below the Narrows.
VardaValar1: The forest between was given to the Beornings and Woodmen.
galdorandwe: That southern part belonged to Lothlorien before Sauron's return, yes?
VardaValar1: No.
VardaValar1: After he took it, he called it East Lorien.
galdorandwe: I recall somewhere in UT that Lothlorien extended across the Anduin
galdorandwe: Before the war of the ring.
galdorandwe: I believe it was the part about Galadriel and Celeborn
galdorandwe: Anyone else recall that?
galdorandwe: I reread it in July.
galdorandwe: That's where i saw it.
VardaValar1: There are two parts about them if I recollect.
Eonwe Valar: I haven't read UT recently enough to remember.
ArPharazonV: I think there were like 7 parts about Galadriel and Celeborn in UT.
galdorandwe: There is also the part where a paragraph mentions that Treebeard and Celeborn meet on the border fo their lands (which butted up against one another at one time) and Treebeard told him something to the effect, "I know wher your land is and my land is...let neither molest the others. Your eleves will be wlelcome ot walk among my woods and let no one harm the ents that walk in yours." Worth mentioning since Fangorn got a big extention after the war of the ring like Lothlorien.
galdorandwe: That comes from the Galadriel and Celeborn chapter BTW.
galdorandwe: Lots in that chapter.
galdorandwe: I really should have marked the pages...sorry. Next time for sure.
VardaValar1: Please note the first paragraph of that chapter as a caveat.
galdorandwe: Next time i read it, you'll have it :-)
Eonwe Valar: It seems the chat has silent, so I suppose now is a good time to bang the gavel.
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*

Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting :}
Eonwe Valar: I must go afk for a few moments.
VardaValar1: ok, looking at a map. Fangorn is south of Lorien. Mirkwood and Dol Guldur are east of Lorien. This is why the area was renamed East Lorien after Celeborn and Thranduil met.
galdorandwe: Many things happened North of Gondor and Mordor during the war of the ring. The relationships there were important to how theevents unfolded and what happened after the war of the ring. It's a shame more wasn't included in the books to elaborate. I believe at one poinbt Gandalf mentions soemhting about ,"imagine no sun shining on Rivendell..." of something terrible happening in the north if Sauron should prevail...and there's a quote about war coming to the dwarves despite thm not coming to Gondor to fight in the war o f the ring down there.
galdorandwe: I think if Tolkein had live longer, he might have written on this topic some more, since it could have made up a very significant number fo pages of text.
VardaValar1: The Brown Lands of the Entwives are south of Dol Guldur, east of Fangorn.
galdorandwe: I'm not implying that 73 isn't a long age to live to BTW.
VardaValar1: The northern wars are told in a nice brief like Pharazon said in Appendix B. More is in the main text to dig out.
VardaValar1: The bits are scattered around the main text.
Eonwe Valar: Some of the longer versions of stuff appear in the HoME books that cover LotR. They were shortened for some reason or another that escapes me at the moment.
galdorandwe: I'm aware of that, but it would be nice to read more in-depth battle scenes, though.
VardaValar1: For instance, when Gimli is saying they should have wished for their own people to come, and Legolas looks outwards and says they don't need to come to war because it marches on their own borders.
VardaValar1: Aye, like having a play by play sports event? : )
galdorandwe: Absolutely. Heroic events happened in the NOrth as well.
VardaValar1: JRRT didn't go into it more because it wasn't directly related to the Ring quest, but it would have been nice.
galdorandwe: I need to get to the game for some deeding before it gets too late. Namarie all.
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
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Eonwe Valar: Have fun Galdor.
ArPharazonV: Oh, and I'll just mention that Battle for Middle Earth II is about the battles in the North...
VardaValar1: I need to see to supper.
ArPharazonV: it's not canon, but still fun :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar! : )
VardaValar1: That App B seems to be the best reference with most of it right together. Good call, Phar!
VardaValar1: Namarie for now.
ArPharazonV: Namarie
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karakedi25: Namarie
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ArathornValar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending