Valar Guild

October 17, 2010 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon, Menelvagor, and Varda.

Attending: (10)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar (presiding), fladrifv/alwin0, Galdor-(V)/galdorandwe, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Menelvagor Valar, mimvalarguild, pallandovalar, VardaValar1

    Other author chat.
Meeting begins
    Indis will be traveling starting Thursday.
    Arien's holidays end Wednesday, so she'll be on less.
    Tolkien Site work, article update.
       4.0.1 patch: discussion
       Gaming day: Lothar server's branch is considering another day for coming together. Schedules have changed.
       Screenshots: requested for places that will change during the Cataclysm. List of places.
       Hallow's End
       Harvest Festival
       Tulkas' first leadership run of a Valar Guild 6-man run was a success.
    EVE Online
    Guild Wars
    Bible Online Game
    Eonwe's topic: We are at the point in the RP where we need to consider Rivendell (soon) and the land between the Misty Mountains and Mirkwood (immediately). So, what do we know of this land?
    Silly in-AIM rp leads to new Trivia Games for our Forum. See the group's creative process here. :)
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
Eonwe Valar: We'll give it a couple more minutes then begin.
AriehnV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Sure, just finished another chapter of Lord of the Clans, so ready to devote full time to the meeting :D
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
AriehnV: awesome book that
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
AriehnV: i love Christie golden
karakedi25: Aiya Arien
ArPharazonV: Aye, it's quite good. Always was curious to the story since they cancelled the game.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
AriehnV: i think thats one of hers , isnt it .. the other great Author is Knaak
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
AriehnV: Aiya Varda :-)
VardaValar1: Robert Knaak?
AriehnV: Was Lord of the Clans supposed to be a game?
AriehnV: aye Varda
ArPharazonV: Yeah, it's Christie's. And Knaak... is usually not as well admired for his work as you seem to :-)
karakedi25: Aiya Varda :-)
AriehnV: hehe i got used to his style
AriehnV: Golden just has a way to capture the emotions in a situation
VardaValar1: brb - pardon
ArPharazonV: I've only read Day of the Dragon by him, but so far the complaints seem rather grounded. But it doesn't bother me so much. For me, Knaak falls under the "so ridiculous it's funny" category.
pallandovalar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya to Arien, Varda, and Pallando.
AriehnV: u just fear , shiver , get enraged with the main characters in her combat scenes
pallandovalar: Aiya. Almost forgot. :-)
ArPharazonV: I'm dreading the War of the Ancients trilogy though, I've heard bad things about what he did to Tyrande and Illidan :-)
ArPharazonV: Yes! I'm liking Golden's work a lot.
Eonwe Valar: I read War of the Ancients trilogy.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Pallando!
AriehnV: aiya Pallando :-)
Eonwe Valar: It's ok, but I can see what peopel don't like about Knaack.
Eonwe Valar: *people
AriehnV: i cant really put it down to something .. he just doesnt *feel* quite right
AriehnV: its something i ve got when reading ;-) it has to capture me
Eonwe Valar: Christie Golden is also ok, but she's got her moments.
Eonwe Valar: At least in her Arthas book.
mimvalarguild has entered the room.
AriehnV: aye ... its a sad story tho
ArPharazonV: I did a search through the pdf file I've got of Day of the Dragon. The word "crimson" was used 42 times. I don't even want to try for "behemoth". He just seems to be using all the same descriptives throughout the book, trying to give it some sort of class, but there's no variation in what he uses, and it just gets annoying.
AriehnV: and complicated
mimvalarguild: howdy
AriehnV: aiya Mim :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya Mim!
Eonwe Valar: Crimson is probably also used mostly in conjunctions with Rhonin's hair, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Mim.
ArPharazonV: Yes. And dragons. Lots of dragons.
ArPharazonV: Which is also what behemoth and leviathan keep referring to.
Eonwe Valar: OK guys, let's go ahead and begin the meeting.
AriehnV: my bad Eonwe :-)_
VardaValar1: back
AriehnV: go on
Eonwe Valar: We hadn't started yet, so np :}
Eonwe Valar: Now we're starting :}

Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: You're all here :}
Eonwe Valar: Anyone else have any membership news?
VardaValar1: Huzzah!
karakedi25: I expect to be traveling starting next Thursday
karakedi25: so my attendance will be unpredictable
Eonwe Valar: Business or pleasure?
galdorandwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Does having a bunch of Laytonrim at the Renaissance Festival this weekend count as Membership news? Might be gaming! ;-)
galdorandwe: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Heya Galdor :}
VardaValar1: Aiya Galdor
karakedi25: pleasure
Eonwe Valar: Cool :} Have fun travelling :}
VardaValar1: Congrats then! About time you got to travel for fun.
karakedi25: cruise with friend :D
ArPharazonV: Aiya Galdor!
Eonwe Valar: :}
AriehnV: aiya Galdor :-)
AriehnV: and where are u off to?
AriehnV: Indis?
karakedi25: Mexican Riviera--got a really good dea
karakedi25: l
Eonwe Valar: Nice.
AriehnV: nice nice , enjoy !
Eonwe Valar: Any other membership news before we move to Web?
ArPharazonV: Sounds like fun!
AriehnV: my holidays end this wednesday
karakedi25: was going to go to the Pacific Northwest, but that ship was full, so they gave us 7 days for 3 at same price
AriehnV: so i ll be less in LotrO again :-\
karakedi25: :-(
AriehnV: cute , Indis :-) nice deal
karakedi25: Very nice! Couldn't turn it down

Eonwe Valar: Web:
galdorandwe: Sounds like a good thing.
Eonwe Valar: Nothing new for the Games Games for now.
Eonwe Valar: *Games Site
VardaValar1: On the Tolkien Site, I've started back to cleaning it up, more uniform, easier to find navigation for non-frame users. Also rewrote my very old article on Eru.
VardaValar1: Got started on the Powers section, making sure it had diacriticals, getting color schemes more together. Much much much more work needed.
VardaValar1: That's it from me.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Varda, and thanks for keeping the Tolkien Site alive and growing :}

Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Thank you.
Eonwe Valar: WoW:
Eonwe Valar: The 4.0.1 patch came out this week.
Eonwe Valar: Alot of changes came with it, both to classes and to the ui.
VardaValar1: Long download, caveat.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: But these days, you can get most of it before patch day if you have your background downloader running.
ArPharazonV: And with all the changes, from now on patches will stream while you play, so it'll be better on the long term :-)
Eonwe Valar: With the new loader that just launched with 4.0.1, you can go straight into the game while still downloading the patch, once you get the critical files downloaded.
AriehnV: but causing a bit birthing woes ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Anyone using dial-up should probably let the majority of the files download before going in.
AriehnV: not to mention earthquakes :-)
VardaValar1: Will the dial-up people be in trouble with that streaming going on for future patches?
Eonwe Valar: And have their background downloader on whenever they can so they don't have to wait so long on patch day.
ArPharazonV: For the earthquakes, head to Stormwind/Orgrimmar, to find where the leaders are. I'll not spoil anything, but the event that takes place there is a good source of lore and lead into Cataclysm.
Eonwe Valar: I doubt people using dial-up will enjoy the experience of trying to play while the patch is downloading.
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar :-)
AriehnV: i would wait on dial ups until u got 95 %or so complete
ArPharazonV: Actually, I think people below 1mbit or something are unable to play until it reaches the "green" area of downloading, which is likely around halfway or further.
AriehnV: the rest will be non critical updates which keep streeming
Eonwe Valar: Once Elwing gets the patch, I suppose we can ask her about her experience.
ArPharazonV: she has dialup?
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: But as I was saying, with all the changes, make sure you pop in and get used to them, respec your characters, etc, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: We have a bunch of glyphs in the guild bank that need learned :}
VardaValar1: Been crafting again, have you? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Another nice ability that was added to the guild UI was the ability to see who has what professions, but it only adds you to the list if you log in on that character.
Eonwe Valar: No, they're still the same numerous glyphs we already had, I'm just hoping we can get them all used up, hehe :}
AriehnV: it sure needs a bit getting used to but things have become really interesting
AriehnV: sure for a healing holy paladin
ArPharazonV: Oh yes, healing has changed a lot. I've seen a lot of complaints from the healing druids, as well.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Paladin's have changed up significantly, keeping our running record of being redesigned every expansion launch going :}
VardaValar1: Eonwe the Ever-changing.
AriehnV: mana household has to be completely relearned
AriehnV: as pali u just have to keep throwing in judgements now and again
Eonwe Valar: Moving on to Lothar:
Eonwe Valar: We haven't been observing the Friday grouping days too strongly of late, due to real life schedules and such, and with Cataclysm looming, I'd like to revive them.
VardaValar1: Sounds good, but we've been having a problem with family not being home on Friday evenings. We'll see what we can do.
Eonwe Valar: If some of us can't make Fridays, as others have expressed to me, let's talk about adding a second day to the mix.
Eonwe Valar: Right now I'd rule out Mon and Wed, since those are LotRO nights and some of us play LotRo as well.
VardaValar1: Leaves Tuesday and Thursday
VardaValar1: Maybe after meetings
VardaValar1: That would make it tight though.
VardaValar1: Sorry, probably needs discussion in WoW.
Eonwe Valar: If we can get together as a group, we can, if nothing else, hit a couple of random heroics. If we have enough, we could consider hitting something slightly larger.
VardaValar1: Only two Lothar people are in AIM atm.
ArPharazonV: Maybe put up something in the forum for people to give their viewpoints, so not everyone needs to be gathered at once?
ArPharazonV: And refer people to the forum from the guild message or something?
Eonwe Valar: I'm announcing it here in the assumption people actually read the news transcript :} And aye, I also planned to put this up on the forum.
ArPharazonV: Well yes, but reading a transcript is not the same as participating in the discussion :-) no direct feedback possible
Eonwe Valar: My e-mail is always open, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: But as I said, I plan to put it up on the forum after the meeting. Meeting gets the first chance for discussion, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: Also in WoW news: I'd like to get some screenshots of all the places changed in the Cataclsym, before they're changed, to put up in the Lothar Events page.
Eonwe Valar: You don't techynically have to be on Lothar server to do this :}
Eonwe Valar: *technically.
Eonwe Valar: If you'd like to grab some nice screenshots of the areas pre-change, I want to put the best of them up.
VardaValar1: Europe can do that too. :-)
AriehnV: will try :-)
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, I've got a daily calendar at home filled with locations all over WoW.. maybe I should scan some in ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Not quite what I'm looking for :}
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Sorry, clicked on one person's name too many times and crashed.
ArPharazonV: Why not? Maybe I can find some that change in Cataclysm *grin*
AriehnV: i think first find out which areas are changed and then make some nice screenshots from there
Eonwe Valar: I would prefer screenshots, with or without your character showing, but please without the UI.
VardaValar1: Maybe take a shot of a favorite location. Good for before and after.
ArPharazonV: In that case, might be of some help, an often updating list of changes coming in Cataclysm, might make for a handy overview of places to screenshot.
Eonwe Valar: Good idea.
ArPharazonV: I knew I kept that thread around in its own firefox tab for a reason!
Eonwe Valar: hehe

Eonwe Valar: OK, Let's move on to LotRO.
VardaValar1: In general LotRO news, we will be having the Harvest Festival soon with a new Haunted Cellar in Hobbiton, and new house decorations from quests there, among other things.
VardaValar1: We have a few folk here who only recently started LotRO. Mim, Pallando. Galdor, can't say you exactly since you started in June and hit 65 already. :-)
VardaValar1: Mim seems to be afk.
karakedi25: I can't think of much else atm--we continue to do our quest runs, and they're been very successful.
VardaValar1: Pallando, do you have any comments about what is a new game for you?
pallandovalar: Not really. :-)
VardaValar1: okies
VardaValar1: As Indis said, we have instance or group runs Monday and Wednesday, that have been attracting more and more folks.
pallandovalar: I've finished Ered Luin, I'm in Bree now, trying to get to 20 to get a mount.
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VardaValar1: First choice tends to be for people who show up on time.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Flad
VardaValar1: Aiya Flad :-)
fladrifv: Aiya
karakedi25: unless they need the instance for something like a class quest
alwin0: Aiya ent
VardaValar1: Monday we ran Carn Dum, a place often needed for many class quests.
alwin0 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Wednesday we did sometning new, as our high levels have been neglected a lot lately on the instance runs.
ArPharazonV: Don't talk to yourself, Ent ;-)
fladrifv: (schitsofrenic ent)
VardaValar1: Tulkas had his first time out as a fellowship leader and covered himself with glory Wednesday.
VardaValar1: He knew where to take us and what was needed by those who had or hadn't run them before.
VardaValar1: He took us to Thror's Coomb in the new level 64-65 area where we did Nar's quests, collecting a mass of golden tokens. :-)
karakedi25: which if in enough quantity can be traded for some very good things
VardaValar1: We'd be happy to have him run us around again, but he usually does it early mornings.
VardaValar1: We do lots of impulse runs and keep adding people. We also have a healthy number in the friends channel.
VardaValar1: Does anyone else have any LotRO comments?
karakedi25: nothing more beyond what I've said
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
AriehnV: Varda took my Burglar for a successful defense of Trestlebridge
AriehnV: and to secure the pass into Angmar from a Dragon Matriarch
AriehnV: many thanks for that :-)

Eonwe Valar: On an added note, Hallow's End begins in WoW tomorrow.
ArPharazonV: Yes! 7 masks to go. Any idea if the mechanics have changed this year?
VardaValar1: (My pleasure, Arien!)
Eonwe Valar: Only the way to get loot from the Horseman will have changed, if Brewfest is any indication.
Eonwe Valar: All they did for Brewfest was reactivate last year's event.
ArPharazonV: Ah, yes, true. A keg in Brewfest, something else at Midsummer... will no doubt be a pumpkin or something from the Horseman
Eonwe Valar: Starcraft 2: Patch 1.1.2 is out.
Eonwe Valar: Any other gaming news?

ArPharazonV: Again rendering savegames mid-mission unavailable for achievements, which meant I had to do Media Blitz twice this week >.>
ArPharazonV: But yeah, Media Blitz was my mission for this week, in Starcraft II, and I managed to unlock the secret one, which will be my next target :-)
pallandovalar: ooh, secret mission? do tell...
ArPharazonV: I also did a few more quests in Guild Wars, and arrived in Kryta! Love the area. Green forest, beautiful shores, and crawling with undead.
SC2 continued:
ArPharazonV: secret mission? There's one to be found in Media Blitz, by destroying a certain neutral building and picking up the documents with a ground unit, a secret one will appear on the starmap after you finish.
ArPharazonV: Want to know more details? :-)
pallandovalar: yeeeees
ArPharazonV: Science Facility in the lower right corner.
Eonwe Valar: Other people might not want spoilers :}
pallandovalar: I only have two missions left. Final zeratul and final final one.
AriehnV: just would love to be able to get out of that starting area ... and higher than level 7 in the same mission u are , Phara ^^ but as it is i cant even get to one of my next quest targets without dieing 500 times
Eonwe Valar: I've already done it, so I'm not one of them, but there might be someone :}
ArPharazonV: You can't unlock it after you've left Char, Pallando. Will need to load a savegame on the Hyperion.
ArPharazonV: *after you've gone to Char
pallandovalar: Then it's time to go back and get achievements. Might have to switch to normal, though. Getting the kill 4 hatcheries achievement on hard is...hard..
pallandovalar: Not even if I replay it through the archive?
ArPharazonV: No. You'll be able to destroy the building and pick up the documents, but the secret mission will only unlock on the starmap, and not in the archives until after you've unlocked/played it.
pallandovalar: Well, I have plenty of saves. No worries.
ArPharazonV: Also.
ArPharazonV: 4 hatcheries is only doable on hard ;-)
pallandovalar: Is there something for finding the taruen on the hold the line mission?
pallandovalar: Oh, thought it was not lose a structure on hard.. oh well, I'll manage it.
ArPharazonV: Well, it's mostly an easter egg, but I think you can find him flying around the bridge on the Hyperion and space-platform missions.
ArPharazonV: Nah, other way around :-)

Eonwe Valar: Pallando has something. Go ahead Pallando.
ArPharazonV: Sure, I'll step down from the stage :-)
pallandovalar: Oh, I'm just doing my usual plug of Eve-Online. The free trial is up to 3 weeks.
pallandovalar: And as ever, I have plenty of isk to help you out. I can't afford to pay for accounts anymore, but If you're interested, shoot me a mail, and I'll get you the trial and all set up. :-)
VardaValar1: That's a nice long free trial.
pallandovalar: If you've tried Eve before, or heard about the tutorials being bad, the current tutorials are absurdly encompassing, and you end up with a vast number of skills and ships and isk.
pallandovalar: Back in my day, we started with like, 30k skillpoints, a newbship, and were told to go get 'em. </bittervet>
pallandovalar: So come on in, the water's fine.
pallandovalar: That's all from here. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Pallando :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other gaming news before we head into Tolkien? Now would also be a good time to whisper topics.
AriehnV: played a bit guild wars and reinstald the original starcraft and the second expansion
AriehnV: broodwars
Eonwe Valar: Only one expansion :}
AriehnV: so in case the web gets broken i ve got something to play :-P
AriehnV: okay one then :-)
AriehnV: but thats all
ArPharazonV: Well, to finish off my gaming news I'll just say I've continued on that Bible Online Game, doing rather well, though I spent most of last week trying to scrape resources together to upgrade my temple for a quest. I found out it's only for Europeans for now, though, so most of you won't be able to join in the fun, but it's still in development and growing, so things will probably change in the future.
VardaValar1: BroodWar has been seeing Fangorn, Sauron, and myself in LAN. : )

Eonwe Valar: OK, looks like it's Tolkien time :}
Eonwe Valar: I have a topic, which I intend to bring up, but I'm not quite ready to, so I'll save it for next week.
ArPharazonV: Intriguing.
Eonwe Valar: Since no one whispered me a topic, I will bring up this one though...
AriehnV has left the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: back

Eonwe Valar: We are at the point in the RP where we need to consider Rivendell(soon) and the land between the Misty Mountains and Mirkwood(immediately). So,o what do we know of this land?
VardaValar1: Will we want to consider the Beornings and Wild Men?
karakedi25: The area between the Anduin and Mirkwood was called Wilderland..
karakedi25: it might be fun to include a meeting with the Beornings
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Yes. The Beornings. There's also the Carrock, we've got wolves and eagles...
karakedi25: perhaps a hunting party
Eonwe Valar: Since this information is drawn from the books, anyone here can contribute with impunity based on their knowledge of the books, as well as pulling those books down off the shelf to quote for us :}
AriehnV: hmm where exactly are we? i was wondering how far away we are from those places mentioned
AriehnV: i was looking at maps in the Atlas of Middleearth and couldnt quite figure out how far up or down the Anduin we would come out
Eonwe Valar: We are still in MIrkwood, probably not terribly far from the Forest Gate. Maybe an hour or two march, somewhat shorter ride.
Eonwe Valar: We won't come out near the Anduin.
ArPharazonV: We shall need to cross it eventually though. Should we dig up the first chapter of our story to look at the local geography we decided?
VardaValar1: It's possible that Elwing's character might give us a fly-by after we come out of the forest. : )
VardaValar1: The geography is supposed to be according to the books, if that helps.
Eonwe Valar: I recall there being a bridge or shaller crossing near the Carrock.
Eonwe Valar: *shallow..
karakedi25: the Carrock Ford, I believe
Eonwe Valar: That's where Auros would've crossed.
VardaValar1: So we would be backtracking, most likely, and would go there.
AriehnV: we d be about 200 miles away from there i think
VardaValar1: If we know our main spots for where we have to go, we can work out the rest of the trip and potential encounters.
VardaValar1: We might also make them passing mentions, unless we work them into the plot as, for instance, information, getting items we need that we didn't expect.
VardaValar1: Tip of the hat to our fellow Tolkien lore nuts. : )
karakedi25: Presumably we'll be using the High Pass to get back to Rivendell
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: (Noticing we need an article on the Maiar, as in what and who. Doesn't have to be long.)
Eonwe Valar: Asusming I remember Auros' trip without looking back at my own writing, he took the High Pass through the Misty Mountains.
Eonwe Valar: *Assuming even.
AriehnV: the High Pass would indeed make the most sense
AriehnV: and i think once we get out of the fores the ground up until the river might be a bit marshy and boggy until we get a good bit away from the River bank on the other side
AriehnV: the River we would be crossing would be the Rinver Langflood
Eonwe Valar: There's mountains adjacent to the river as well. That would affect the landscape.
AriehnV: aye but on the near shore the ground would be softer
AriehnV: and more boggy me thinks , that is the forest side
ArPharazonV: Mountains and river. Makes me think... little streams, flowing down, eroding gullies and small ravines along the mountainside.
ArPharazonV: probably some softer ground lower on the slopes, yes, with good vegetation
Eonwe Valar: Using my Atlas for very quick reference, Ms. Fonstad defines the area we'd be crossing (and much more) as "Plains and UNdulating Lowlands"
Eonwe Valar: I'll try to give a quick quote..
VardaValar1: Unrelated to the topic just ran across FotR prologue about the three types of Hobbits each having an affinity for other Children of Iluvatar. Harfoots and Dwarves, Stoors and Men, Fallohides and Elves.
VardaValar1: Frodo and Sam, Legolas and Gimli now have a mirror touch.
VardaValar1: Just a stray thought. That's all. :-)
VardaValar1: Pardon, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: "Tolkien specifically descrbied several plains areas: Ard-galen and Lothlann at the feet of the Iron Mountains; north of the Andram at the Twilight Meres; the plains of ROhan and Rhovanion; Dagorlad, the hard plain of battle, and Lithlad, the ash plain. Unless coastal cliffs appeared on Tolkien's maps... the shores were considered the be flat coastal plain.
AriehnV: hehe .. bogs and marshes at both ends of the roads , soluble limestone mostly in mirkwood with a lot of holes to fall in .. caused by erosion< and on the hole affected by continental glaciation
Eonwe Valar: Away from these specifically mentioned plains the land was probably more undulating, for it would have been subject to more stream-cutting action, rather than receiving alluvial fill. In some areas of the north, however, especially in northern Wilderland (Wilderland being the area of our consideration)
ArPharazonV: continental glaciation, eh? when, I wonder?
AriehnV: Mirkwood itself seems pretty flat but seems to be very slightly sloping towards the river
Eonwe Valar: , the land appeared to have been covered by continental glaciation and may have had depositional hills as well as erosional one.. Much of the travel was in these rolling lands. The gentle topography should have sped the travellers along, yet even in these less rugged areas, other factors could slow or spee dtheir progress."
ArPharazonV: hmm, guess I was close enough :-)
Eonwe Valar: Morgoth used extremem cold as easily as he did extreme heat.
AriehnV: dont know , Phara, just that Mrs Fonstad points to several lakes as result of valleys filled by waters and the Description of Thrandruils caves seems to point to limestone formations enhanced by dwarves
VardaValar1: I'd go with Eonwe's explanation. Seems to work: Morgoth and glaciers fits as part of the changes in the planet's geography.
Eonwe Valar: The people of Forochel seem to have blamed winter (maybe just harsh or long winters) on the Witch-King (at least during the time Arvedui was alive).
ArPharazonV: Yes, I do believe I read of that in the Atlas. And I suppose that the Witch-King and Morgoth could easily be accountable for the colds, yes :-)
ArPharazonV: I"m just trying to be rather careful sticking long-term geographical changes to Middle-Earth, since it has a rather different origin and timescale :-)
Eonwe Valar: By the way, as I recall, when Bilbo climbed that tree in the Hobbit, it was a tall tree at the bottom of a deep ravine, so when he looked out, all he saw were the tops of the trees all around him.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
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Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
karakedi25: Aiya Menel
AriehnV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, tall tree, wide valley.
AriehnV: aye
Eonwe Valar: Same effect, different geological structure.
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Aiya Menel. RP talk about the upcoming terrain and folk on our way outside Mirkwood heading toward Rivendell.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Menel.
VardaValar1: Wasn't Bilbo climbing up the tree inside Mirkwood? Saw the Black Emperor butterflies up there.
AriehnV: yes he was
ArPharazonV: yes, that was in Mirkwood
ArPharazonV: Not too far from the Eastern edge.
Menelvagor Valar: Wasn't that after they had crossed the enchanted river/
Menelvagor Valar: ?*
ArPharazonV: He would've seen the exit if it wasn't in a valley, as I recall.
ArPharazonV: *if the tree wasn't in a valley, I mean
ArPharazonV: I think it was, Menel.
Eonwe Valar: Aye to Phar and Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: so there is no reason to assume that the same is true for where we are.
Menelvagor Valar: in fact, it stands more to reason that the land would be sloping downwards towards the Anduin river?
ArPharazonV: Quite. And up again on the other side. Looking west, I mean.
Menelvagor Valar: Slightly anyways, since Mirkwood is relatively flat as I recall.
Eonwe Valar: I don't get the impression from the quote that we would be terribly hampered by the landscape, so any sloping would be gentle enough.
Menelvagor Valar: Is what I thought.
ArPharazonV: Remind me. The enchanted river flows northward towards the Anduin, right? Not southwards towards the River Running?
Menelvagor Valar: Northwards.
galdorandwe: Would there be any information about the land around there from the accounts from the Gladden Fields? I seem to recall reading something about that not long ago but can't be certain exactly what it was. There was some account of an incline the orcs or Men of Gondor made use of...a biy foggy on the details.
Menelvagor Valar: Not sure if it's towards Anduin though.
ArPharazonV: If the former, it would definitely indicate Mirkwood sloping slightly down towards the west, otherwise the river wouldn't be going in that direction.
ArPharazonV: Water flows down, after all.
Menelvagor Valar: Gladden Fields, as I recall is quite a bit south from the Forest road.
AriehnV: the enchanted river flows down from the Mountains of Mirkwood into the Forest River
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Must get book. Will get Atlas to be sure.
AriehnV: they merge not far from Thorins Hall
Menelvagor Valar: Which flows into Esgaroth.
Eonwe Valar: Thandruil's Hall?
Menelvagor Valar: Thranduil* ^^
Eonwe Valar: *Thranduil even.
Menelvagor Valar: You've seen too many Thandruils in WoW Eonwe ^^
AriehnV: err bangs head ... sure
ArPharazonV: Yes! You are correct. The enchanted river flows to the North, but turns to the Northeast and merges with the Forest River, also flowing eastwards.
Eonwe Valar: Maybe, Menel :}
AriehnV: Thranduils caverns
ArPharazonV: This means that for the most northern part of Mirkwood, at least, the land slopes down eastward if anything, and certainly not westward.
Menelvagor Valar: not necessarily Arphie.
Menelvagor Valar: The river flows that way, but the land may slope ever higher, resulting in high banks and the like.
ArPharazonV: Hmm yes. But for the banks to have formed, it must've been lower at some point in the river's forming, no?
Menelvagor Valar: no, the river was flowing higher at some point.
Menelvagor Valar: but the water wearing away at the banks and such would have caused the banks to be "higher".
galdorandwe: Is there any account of the river bank from the Hobbit with respect to the bridge across to Tranduil's Caves?
Menelvagor Valar: geological explanations from the viewpoint of a human being... gotta love the annoying differentiating :-D
ArPharazonV: Yes, but at the point of the River's *forming* it would generally be flowing downwards. So at some point the land might've sloped eastwards, and later rising as the river cut through the banks.
galdorandwe: Has anyone ever tried to create a topographic map of Middle Earth?
ArPharazonV: As the land rose, that is. As it is now at the point of our story, it might indeed slope down westwards.
Eonwe Valar: The Atlas of Middle-Earth, by Karen Wynn Fonstad, is full os useful maps :}
Menelvagor Valar: I actually had a detailed one on my own website, but unfortunately, the host discontinued free hosting, so it was lost.
Eonwe Valar: *full of
ArPharazonV: Still, I find it hard to imagine that the land between the Anduin and the Forest River is sloping westwards, or at least has always sloped westwards, or the Forest River would be more likely to flow into the Anduin instead of going East.
Menelvagor Valar: I also have a map of ME somewhere lying around the house.
galdorandwe: I have it...and there are no lines indicating slope like I see on topographic maps I have of my county
galdorandwe: Just asking
Menelvagor Valar: well, as I said, Mirkwood is relatively flat considering the presence of mountains to the north and west.
ArPharazonV: This is true.
Menelvagor Valar: yeah, true, but Tolkien wasn't THAT thorough.
Menelvagor Valar: most of what we know of sloping is based on descriptions paired with our knowledge of what the lay of the land would look like considering the topography we DO know and the limited amount of descriptions concerning the rest.
Menelvagor Valar: that seems kinda double speech... but it rings true in my ears ^^
ArPharazonV: Sounds about right, yes
Menelvagor Valar: basically what we're doing here is making conjecture of what it may or may not be like.
ArPharazonV: Using what we know, and what might be implied by landscape-features like the flow of a river ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: the fact of the matter remains is that we know very little about those parts not described in any of Tolkien's many writings.
Menelvagor Valar: exactly.
ArPharazonV: Which is basically what has been done in the Atlas as well.
Menelvagor Valar: still, there's about at least a dozen clear variations, not to mention hundreds of caused that alter from the d'oh to something we'd never think of.
Menelvagor Valar: caused = caused*
Menelvagor Valar: causes*
Menelvagor Valar: darn typo.
Eonwe Valar: Well, just for fun I'll say not to forget to take into account the mountain range north of Mirkwood, the Ered Mithrin.
Menelvagor Valar: For example, in Beleriand, there's this river that originates in Dor Lomin, which runs as an underground river to the west, to the sea.
AriehnV: this might help :-)
Menelvagor Valar: after exiting the mountains, it runs between very steep banks.
Menelvagor Valar: it turns slightly southwards.
Menelvagor Valar: but the northbank slopes north and west, while the southbank slopes south and west.
Eonwe Valar: Back to the discussion of the area between Mirkwood and the Misty Mountains :}
ArPharazonV: Oh yes. That is an interesting area. Then again, Dor Lomin is cut off from the sea, and the water has to go somewhere. I'm inclined to think that where it goes underground might be one of the lowest corners of Dor Lomin.
galdorandwe: I must admit, recreating a topography of an entire continent in a fictional world that's been desribed in limited ways as far a geography, is not an easy task.
Menelvagor Valar: sorry, just adding to the conjecture that the lay of the land is not necessarily determined by the course of a river.
ArPharazonV: As for how an underground river carves itself... I shouldn't done more hydrological courses for that ;-)
ArPharazonV: *should've
Menelvagor Valar: Still, it's entirely possible that a slope is in completely the other direction than the course of the river.
ArPharazonV: Yes. But this usually happens only if there's been a change in landscape since the river's first formed... or basically if the river has no other choice.
Menelvagor Valar: besides, even a river can slope upwards for a short distance.
AriehnV: I figure we are slightly north of the point where the party turned off to Beorn's place
ArPharazonV: Can it? Don't you usually get lakes at that point?
Menelvagor Valar: it depends whether the surrounding lands are high enough and the press of the water behind it hard enough to force the river "up".
Menelvagor Valar: yes, a river may widen at such a point, but not necessarily cause lakes.
Menelvagor Valar: but refer to above point for that.
ArPharazonV: Well, at the least it'll fill up to the surrounding high landscape. It doesn't have to be very broad.
galdorandwe: Has anyone considered the accounts in the Silmarillion when "the mountains were created"? I know a little about many years passed between the 3 ages total? My guess it wasn't a million. I'm just saying.
Menelvagor Valar: eventually, the press of the water will carve out the up-sloping part to become down-sloping again.
ArPharazonV: This is also true. It's not stable in any case.
ArPharazonV: Might also help if the part it carves through is softer material than the surrounding.
galdorandwe: It's the world of make-believe so anything is possible :-)
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien did have rules for his world :}
AriehnV: so if u look at that map .. which is sby Jrrs own Hand ... there would be a slight climb to get over the edge of the forest vale and then heading relatively flat and marshy towards the ford .. either at the Carrock or furnther north where a smaller mountain river comes from the misty mountains
ArPharazonV: Tolkien's world has an astonishingly low amount of "magic" for a fantasy world. While carving of mountains might be done by Aule instead of tectonics and erosion, the smaller-scale physics like rivers seem to be quite consistent with our own world.
Eonwe Valar: Even if the Valar could do just about anything to it, there are some things even they can't do, like revive the Trees :}
ArPharazonV: Makes sense, Arien! If there's a climb, it would seperate the Forest River and the Anduin's flow areas.
ArPharazonV: seperate? separate? I never get that right.
karakedi25: separate
AriehnV: ah well u ll sort it :0 Frali just hacks and does his best to fall not of ponies and has some heroic moments to impress or would be impressive to the Elves
AriehnV: i ' ll have to go for now :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie :-)
galdorandwe: Night
AriehnV: Namarie
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VardaValar1: True, make-believe fantasy worlds have to have rigid rules to make them believable, and JRRT did just that. For instance he spent a great deal of time making certain the moon rose at just the right time.
ArPharazonV: very true, Varda, I remember that problem from the History quite well.
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien :} I was just about to point to the Hobbit and say we can probably solve this by referring to any descriptions there of the area.
VardaValar1: Namarie Arien
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe. Hobbit is canon for that area.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie.
galdorandwe: How much of his design came from actual rivers/mountains/landscapes he was familiar with? My guess is that there's a healthy does of Europe as well as South Africa in there. I have never found any spot-on record of him admitting where he got it from.
Eonwe Valar: No need to go as far as a discussion in plate tectonics to figure out what the lands should be like if we have sources for examples of the area.
ArPharazonV: aww, but it was a great discussion to test my Earth Science knowledge, who knows if I'll ever be able to use everything I picked up during my study ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I recall something about the Shire being about the latitude of England.
Eonwe Valar: You can write a paper on the landforms of Middle-Earth, drawing from LotR, Sil, Hobbit, UT, and HoME for the Tolkien Encyclopedia :}
ArPharazonV: Hah. I'd most likely be quoting the Atlas.
Eonwe Valar: Shame on you :} Do the research first-hand :}
VardaValar1: Sadly the Atlas has been found to be imperfect, but is mostly quite good.
Eonwe Valar: In seriousness, a paper on it for the Encyclopedia probably wouldn't hurt, Ms. Fonstad's book notwithstanding.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: Consider that we are trying to have an Encyclopedia to go to for anything Tolkien :}
ArPharazonV: This is true.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, so back to the topic, what do we know of the land we'll be crossing, as described in the Hobbit?
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Eonwe Valar: The Hobbit says Bilbo saw wide grasslands.
ArPharazonV: east side of the river, right?
Eonwe Valar: Says "a river running through it all" so I'm guessing there was some extent of grasslands on the west side as well.
ArPharazonV: Ah right.
Eonwe Valar: "Cropping out of the ground, right in the path of the stream which looped itself about it, was a great rock, almost a hill of stone, like a last outpost of the distant mountains, or a huge piece cast miles into the plain by some giant among giants." That's where the eagles left the company.
ArPharazonV: This is after the grasslands? That would mean westside, indeed. And some on the east at least.
Eonwe Valar: "There was a flat space on the top of the hill of stone and a well worn path with many steps leading down it to the river, across which a ford of huge flat stones led to the grass-land beyond the stream." Also seems to be a cave.
Eonwe Valar: *Also seems to have a cave, that is.
Eonwe Valar: Given that when he saw all this, he was on the back of the eagle, the forest that's mentioned: "below them were trees that looked like oaks and elms" was Mirkwood.
Eonwe Valar: This ford isn't mentioned as crossing the entire river, just from the rock to the east bank.
ArPharazonV: anything said about crossing between the rock and the westside?
Eonwe Valar: Nothing.
Eonwe Valar: Or at least, that's not how I'm reading it.
Eonwe Valar: The quote above is all that's said about a ford.
ArPharazonV: I'll just stop asking questions and run up to get my copy.
VardaValar1: Who says we don't get any exercise? ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: The water was shallow and clear in that area though, so crossing is not impossible.
Eonwe Valar: The water was "shallow and clear and stony at the ford."
Eonwe Valar: I take back my earlier comment. There were trees near the ford.
ArPharazonV: Nothing said about the crossing on the return journey, so no help there.
Eonwe Valar: "up slope and down dale" so that's the landforms of the area around Beorn's home.
Eonwe Valar: As we had hinted from Ms. Fonstads Atlas quoted above.
galdorandwe: OK. Namarie all. I need ot get some game time in before it gets too late. Thanks for the stimulating and informational discussion on the geography. It's pretty intense. I'd love to see one of you make an actual topo map for this :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Eonwe Valar: Take care Galdor :}
Eonwe Valar: Have fun :}
galdorandwe has left the room.
VardaValar1: An actual topographic map, good idea.
ArPharazonV: with actual heights? that'd be something...
VardaValar1: I'll publish it for you on our Tolkien Site. :-)
VardaValar1: and probably in the Art Cave.
Menelvagor Valar: back... sorry, phone call :-P
Menelvagor Valar: still on the lay of the land I see :-D
VardaValar1: Good to have a real life. :-) Yay for scrolling!
Eonwe Valar: Seems ,Beorn had no trouble getting across the river, so either the Carrock ford spanned the river, or the water was plenty shallow for crossing.
Eonwe Valar: *spanned
ArPharazonV: Unless the ford went *around* the Carrock too, I'm assuming the latter. Beorn was strong enough to make it anyway,
ArPharazonV: *.
Menelvagor Valar: I would think there's plenty of fords in the northern reaches of the Anduin, and if I recall corectly, it was one of the reasons , or maybe even thé reason for the forest road.
Eonwe Valar: I'd forgotten the fight with the wolves took place on the west side of the river/east side of the Misty Mountains, so between the MM and the Anduin.
Eonwe Valar: Fir apparently on that side.
Menelvagor Valar: aye :-)
Eonwe Valar: *"so trees between etc: is how that should've read.
Menelvagor Valar: but there's not a mention of boats or any kind of raft in which Bilbo's party crossed the river, therefore it stands to reason they forded Anduin.
Eonwe Valar: They got there the first time via Eagle.
ArPharazonV: Bilbo's party landed on top of the Carrock and used the ford on the eastern side.
ArPharazonV: Through eagle, yes.
VardaValar1: Someone will surely say they should have gone to Erebor by Eagle. :-)
VardaValar1: Bet that would've alerted Smaug in a hurry!
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: As I said earlier, nothing is mentioned between Beorn's place and the glade where they encountered the wolves, when it comes to the return journey.
ArPharazonV: Surely they crossed the river somehow!
Eonwe Valar: I think it's safe to say that near Beorn's place at least ,we shall find no roving orcs or wolves.
VardaValar1: It's like Frodo flying to Mt. Doom with the Ring on a Great Eagle. Might as well paint a target sign.
VardaValar1: Might be some very interesting animals that work for Beorn there.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, if the Eagles had been fast enough...
ArPharazonV: ah yes, what was it again... bees and ponies?
VardaValar1: Fell Beasts fly fast too.
ArPharazonV: yes, but the fel beasts would've had to intercept
VardaValar1: And there's this mountain in the way of the landing spot.
ArPharazonV: Just fly over it and drop the thing!
VardaValar1: They were in a good spot to intercept.
Eonwe Valar: "Streams and springs along the road" from Beorn's place and the forest gate.
ArPharazonV: no, not ponies I'm thinking of... it's dogs and sheep, apparently
VardaValar1: Knock the hobbit off. Make sure he lands in the lava.
ArPharazonV: Oh! And yes, there's 4 white ponies.
ArPharazonV: For the greater good, Varda? :-)
VardaValar1: Anyway, Frodo and Sam had to go in the Sammath Naur on the side of the mountain.
VardaValar1: For laziness. :-)
ArPharazonV: Eh. It was a smoking volcano. Surely there was a hole at the top!
VardaValar1: See RotK "Mount Doom" for the Sammath Naur.
VardaValar1: Doesn't have to be at the top to smoke. :-)
ArPharazonV: Sammath Naur was just easier to reach on foot ;-)
VardaValar1: Looking at where Frodo says to Gollum in a command, "Begone and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom."
VardaValar1: Wish that had been in the movie.
Eonwe Valar: The Forest gate was "A few day's ride due north of the Carrock."
VardaValar1: Sorry, Eonwe. I digressed. *backs up*
VardaValar1: Cool! So we only have to ride a few days, and we do have horses (and a pony).
Eonwe Valar: I think we may have wringed as much out of this topic as we're going to get.
ArPharazonV: Well. What's the plan?
ArPharazonV: We go out the forest gate, head for the Carrock, and try to cross along the shallow westside?
Eonwe Valar: Wargs run swifter than ponies, if we didn't already know that :}
VardaValar1: Arrows move pretty fast too. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that would be the best way, and if I recall is where Auros would've crossed on his journey east.
VardaValar1: Aye Phar, Mt. Doom had a central cone and had been erupting. Probably deadly to fly over.
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Probably.
ArPharazonV: Smoke and sulfur and all...
Eonwe Valar: long grass, flowers, scattered trees, birds, deer, harts
Eonwe Valar: That's the land between Beorn's domain and the Forest gate.
VardaValar1: In one place it says elves from Mirkwood would go out on the plains and ride in the open spaces as a relief. But I think that was on the other side, sadly.
Eonwe Valar: Probably, aye.
VardaValar1: So the Mirkwood elves will like this, not be made nervous by open space.
mimvalarguild has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Now that we've been over the area, we know what we can use in our posts.
mimvalarguild has left the room.
VardaValar1: It's in my not so great memory that the plains would be on the far side, not this side. [Note: the plains used by the Mirkwood elves for relief from the forest, no disagreement with Eonwe intended.]
VardaValar1: Petty dwarf sighting!
Eonwe Valar: I'm taking this info directly from the Hobbit.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, rare little things, aren't they?
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Might have to put a post on the rp forum with the actual Hobbit info on the terrain.
VardaValar1: Might be one of the most useful bits on the forum, lore-wise. :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe.

VardaValar1: We do seem to have stopped playing the trivia games.
ArPharazonV: Ah! I'd forgotten about those. Whose turn is it anyway?
VardaValar1: After a month of no reply, we should move to a new person.
Eonwe Valar: After this long, we should just start a new trivia thread methinks.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, let's go ahead and bang the gavel, let those of us who need to go be free.
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*

Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting.
VardaValar1: *flies upwards then returns* Hey, I like it here!
VardaValar1: Varda Sulimi can fly. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: *breaks out of the forgotten caves* I'm free! Freeee!
VardaValar1: oops
Eonwe Valar: Manwe: "Eonwë, Pharazon has escaped! Time to recruit Numenoreans with attitudes!"
Eonwe Valar: *cue Power Rangers theme*
VardaValar1: He's so bluuuue.
Menelvagor Valar: now he's red.
Menelvagor Valar: Menelvagor send a firey wave of anti-Pharzie across the universe.
ArPharazonV: After ten thousand years I'm free! It's time to conquer Arda!
ArPharazonV: *sends random monsters down*
VardaValar1: So, Eonwe, shall you push him back in the hole or shall I? Or we could ask Tulkas to take care of it?
Menelvagor Valar: Firey wave of anti-Pharzie reaches Pharzie.
ArPharazonV: *hides in a cave against the fire*
VardaValar1: Careful Phar! You might have to room with them!
Menelvagor Valar: Firey wave seals off the cave entrance with... oh how innovative!... fire.
VardaValar1: Does that cave look familiar, Phar?
Eonwe Valar: I'm the Alpha stand-in for this little game. All I do is stand around staring at the viewing-palantir and say "Aye-yie-yie!" :}
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: We need to get Pharazon to create a Green-Numenorean that we can then turn to good :}
ArPharazonV: Heh.
Menelvagor Valar: we got one!
Menelvagor Valar: he's called Aragorn.
Menelvagor Valar: not Pharzie's creation of course, but he'll do I guess.
ArPharazonV: Can't I just keep sending down small groups of puddy-creatures that get defeated in the first 3 minutes?
Eonwe Valar: No, Aragorn's the Red Ranger :}
Menelvagor Valar: and Faramir is yellow I suppose? ^^
Menelvagor Valar: How about... Elrond?
Menelvagor Valar: he's old-old-old-old-repeat-uncle of Aragorn ^^
Menelvagor Valar: and wonder who's the pink one?
ArPharazonV: yes, but never Numenorean :-)
Eonwe Valar: I could pick an answer for Elrond, but I'm afraid my doing so will just show my age, hehe.
VardaValar1: Eowyn?
VardaValar1: um, yeah, Eonwe.
VardaValar1: Go show your age.
Menelvagor Valar: good point, but I don't think pink is her style.
Menelvagor Valar: And she wasn't Numenorean either.
VardaValar1: Pink wouldn't look so great on black-haired Arwen.
VardaValar1: oops, Numenorean.
Menelvagor Valar: who's the blue one?
VardaValar1: Black-haired and grey-eyed the lot of them. Has to be hot pink then.
Menelvagor Valar: personally, I'd go with Indigo.
Menelvagor Valar: there's pink in there.... somewhere.
Eonwe Valar: Well, there was an episode *way back* that showed an old pair of Power Rangers greeting their grandchildren, who were current Power Rangers. So, ELrond, First Age, you fill in the blank :}
Eonwe Valar: *current* being in the future
ArPharazonV: I think I remember something about that. Wasn't the grandfather red though?
Menelvagor Valar: We could always send in Ëarendil ^^
VardaValar1: Wow, I totally forgot about our trivia name game. :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Menelvagor Valar: I never even saw that one *hides in shame*
VardaValar1: Starts with Gandalf.
Menelvagor Valar: *leaves the fiery wave of anti-pharzie fire wall in place though*
VardaValar1: Then the next person picks a name that starts in the last letter of Gandalf.
Menelvagor Valar: Fralí!
Eonwe Valar: Find it in Tolkien's books :}
VardaValar1: Has to be a specific name from the actual books. Frali wuold be fun hehehe.
Menelvagor Valar: Fangorn.
Menelvagor Valar: Faramir.
ArPharazonV: Feanor
Menelvagor Valar: Finrod.
ArPharazonV: Fingon
Menelvagor Valar: Felarof... or are horses / animals discounted?
VardaValar1: Fangorn was mentioned first. So the next person must use a name starting with N.
ArPharazonV: Nori
VardaValar1: It says:
VardaValar1: Bill as in Bill the pony may not be used, however Bill as in Bill Ferny may be used.
Menelvagor Valar: righto :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Indis.
ArPharazonV: no creatures, just speaking people?
ArPharazonV: Smeagol
Menelvagor Valar: Longshanks ^^
karakedi25: Landroval
VardaValar1: Narsil is ok
Eonwe Valar: Um, Menel, you did see the Name Games :} You were doing the master list of names already used, in fact :}
Menelvagor Valar: I did? :-P
VardaValar1: Some Galdor guy.
VardaValar1: 1975 birthday
VardaValar1: :-)
Menelvagor Valar: So, are nicknames allowed? :-P
Eonwe Valar: OK, guess it wasn't you that did the master list, but I see your posts sprinkled in here :}
VardaValar1: 134 posts.
VardaValar1: Our previous Galdor who fell off the planet, sadly.
Menelvagor Valar: Apparently I did see that thread... ages ago :-P
VardaValar1: We could start a new one, and then keep the names updated in the first post.
Menelvagor Valar: Should be easy :-)
Menelvagor Valar: or I could make a separate thread with the master list.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, I think I might tweak the rules, because I see one that I don't know what I was thinking...
VardaValar1: But whomever is starting the post is the one who keeps up with the master list.
Menelvagor Valar: Landroval - Legolas ^^
VardaValar1: Easy enough, just keep up the list on the first post.
karakedi25: Sulimo
VardaValar1: Orome
Eonwe Valar: "Narsil, catapult, sword, etc,. may be used. " Why in the world did I say "sword" and "catapult" could be used...
karakedi25: Elendil
Menelvagor Valar: Eomer.
Menelvagor Valar: Lindir.
karakedi25: Radagast
Menelvagor Valar: Theoden
VardaValar1: That was Galdor, not you, Eonwe.
karakedi25: Nazgul
Menelvagor Valar: I would discount that one, as it is about a group of people, not a specific person.
VardaValar1: I have to agree. Specific name.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, so it was. The next question is why I didn't read the poster and instead assume it was me :}
ArPharazonV: The problem with these games is that they tend to lean to one letter in the alphabet by human nature and end up exhausting all possibilities.
VardaValar1: Khamul would work, but not Nazgul, for instance.
Menelvagor Valar: it's a long long list of possibilities though :-P
ArPharazonV: For one letter of the alphabet?
ArPharazonV: how many L's have we got?
Menelvagor Valar: quite.
VardaValar1: We should start a new thread, post the rules of specific names and leave in critters. And the list has to be kept up by that first poster.
Menelvagor Valar: there's most likely a dozen names for each letter, not counting ones such as X, Q and Z.
VardaValar1: Quenya, would that count?
Menelvagor Valar: if you count names of Languages, yes.
Menelvagor Valar: So, why don't we figure out the rules here?
VardaValar1: We are. :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Then I would undiscount specific names of people.
VardaValar1: Narvi
VardaValar1: Languages seem pretty iffy here.
VardaValar1: I'd drop that.
VardaValar1: Could be specific names of characters.
VardaValar1: Do we say specific names of animals?
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: Specific names of objects and places?
VardaValar1: Or make them separate games?
VardaValar1: These could be played as another trivia game live too, like we're doing. :-)
ArPharazonV: Hmm, places and locations and countries could be rather dangerous. Objects I'm not sure of.
VardaValar1: Or maybe we could include names of languages and races. Any opinions?
VardaValar1: Narsil, Anduril, Glamdring
VardaValar1: So stick to characters?
VardaValar1: We could say from any book or limit to certain books?
Menelvagor Valar: Allowed:Specific names of characters,specific names of people or a group of people or animals,specific names of animals,specific names of items (such as weapons or food).specific names of places Not allowed:Nicknames (Longshanks is no good for Aragorn), unless adopted as a name (Strider is ok),Generic names of items (Lembas is ok, potato or sword is not)
VardaValar1: I'd like to say any book on Middle-earth by JRRT or Christopher.
Menelvagor Valar: this is what I have currently.
Menelvagor Valar: add specific names of languages.
VardaValar1: Phar suggested dropping places
Menelvagor Valar: well, I think it makes it more interesting...
Menelvagor Valar: more names to chose from :-)
ArPharazonV: Well, allright then.
VardaValar1: That could be a whole different game! :-)
ArPharazonV: Can last longer that way
VardaValar1: The list gets too long to check though.
VardaValar1: Cutting it down a bit helps.
Menelvagor Valar: multitudes of the same specific name (Strider and Aragorn are the same, so only one is allowed),
VardaValar1: I don't see why we would drop nicknames like Longshanks, unless you're afraid Aragorn will take over the game? :-)
Menelvagor Valar: hence the aboce rule as not allowed.
Menelvagor Valar: above*
VardaValar1: I'd scan a list alphabetically and that would make it tougher. meh
Menelvagor Valar: I could make the master list alphabetically.
VardaValar1: So a person says Aragorn wasn't used since Strider wasn't on the list. Guess we could call foul in the next post and they have to pick another.
Menelvagor Valar: generic names for people / animals (rabbit, human elf are not allowed),
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: No generic names
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
VardaValar1: If a name is used once, no versions.
ArPharazonV: so horses is not allowed, Mearas (sp?) is
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.
karakedi25: that's another class
Menelvagor Valar: because it's a specific name for a select breed of horses.
VardaValar1: Mearas are the fathers of horses, so they are all horses. But Meara is a specific name of a type of horse, like Arabian.
Menelvagor Valar: it's specific enough ^^
VardaValar1: It's capitalized! A clue. :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Numenoreans are good, Gondorin, Southrons, Easterlings, Wainriders, etc.
ArPharazonV: it's also a term unique to Tolkien, that tends to give things away...
ArPharazonV: what about balrogs?
Menelvagor Valar: good question.
Menelvagor Valar: I think not though.
ArPharazonV: how about just the Balrog? :-)
Menelvagor Valar: that's a race, and we know the name of at least one :-)
VardaValar1: Balrog of Moria
ArPharazonV: Gothmog, yes...
Menelvagor Valar: that means that both Gothmog and Gothmog would be correct names, if the poster can point that one is a Balrog, the other an Orc.
VardaValar1: Balrogs as a race, seems like it should be capitalized, doesn't it?
Menelvagor Valar: So Specific race names we allow?
VardaValar1: Dwarves, Elves?
ArPharazonV: Tricky.
VardaValar1: Sorry, on the phone with Fangorn
ArPharazonV: Tricksy, yes...
Menelvagor Valar: I think not, since they pretty much all ends in s.
Menelvagor Valar: end*
ArPharazonV: humans, Hobbits, balrogs, dragons...
VardaValar1: balrogs
VardaValar1: Man
ArPharazonV: eagles, fel beasts, trolls and mountain giants!
ArPharazonV: Beornings!
ArPharazonV: there go all your S'es
Menelvagor Valar: duplicates (Gothmog the Balrog and Gothmog the Orc may be two different characters, but they have the same name),
ArPharazonV: Bill the pony and the man :-)
Menelvagor Valar: exactly.
ArPharazonV: what about a category of multiple objects like the Silmarilli or the Palantiri? :-)
Menelvagor Valar: although Bill the Pony ends in l, while Bill Ferny ends in Y.
Menelvagor Valar: specific names of (a group of) items (such as weapons or food),
VardaValar1: Maybe we should drop those categories
Menelvagor Valar: added to the allowed.
Eonwe Valar: What about Valar and Maiar? They're specific groups of Ainur.
Menelvagor Valar: allowed.
Menelvagor Valar: as are Ainur.
Menelvagor Valar: I think.
ArPharazonV: what about.. hmm... concepts... as a fea?
Menelvagor Valar: not allowed.
ArPharazonV: well, I'll let you sort it out, it's high time for sleeping
Menelvagor Valar: but not going to make that a separate rule.
VardaValar1: back
Menelvagor Valar: I think the list of rules is large enough as is, we can always add more later :-)
VardaValar1: Fangorn says hi :-)
ArPharazonV: saving and sending
Menelvagor Valar: or distract :-)
VardaValar1: We could stick to
Menelvagor Valar: hi back to whenever you talk to him next :-D
VardaValar1: just specific names of characters and animals.
VardaValar1: Make it simple.
VardaValar1: :-)
ArPharazonV     3:08 am
ArPharazonV (3:08:30):
VardaValar1     3:08 am
VardaValar1 (3:08:31):
No races, languages, etc.
Menelvagor Valar     3:08 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:08:43):
maybe create a separate list for items and places?
VardaValar1     3:08 am
VardaValar1 (3:08:47):
When a rule list gets too long, something's wrong.
VardaValar1 (3:09:01):
Aye, a separate game for places. :-)
VardaValar1 (3:09:10):
Items wouldn't fit there.
VardaValar1 (3:09:17):
Items would be a tough game, could be fun.
VardaValar1 (3:09:31):
So one game with character and animal names.
VardaValar1 (3:09:36):
One with place names.
VardaValar1 (3:09:39):
One with item names.
Menelvagor Valar     3:10 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:10:11):
Specific names of characters,
specific names of people or a group of people or animals,
specific names of animals.

Not allowed:
Nicknames (Longshanks is no good for Aragorn), unless adopted as a name (Strider is ok),
multitudes of the same specific name (Strider and Aragorn are the same, so only one is allowed),
generic names for people / animals (rabbit, human elf are not allowed),
duplicates (Gothmog the Balrog and Gothmog the Orc may be two different characters, but they have the same name),
VardaValar1     3:10 am
VardaValar1 (3:10:11):
How's that? Ok? Too restrictive? Too many games?
ArPharazonV     3:10 am
ArPharazonV (3:10:19):
Huh. I'm starting to get duplicate dates. Good thing I added years. We had a 17-10-2004 also ;)
Menelvagor Valar     3:10 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:10:24):
that's the ruleset for people / animals.
VardaValar1     3:10 am
VardaValar1 (3:10:32):
Menelvagor Valar     3:10 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:10:51):
10-17 in US scribing :-D
ArPharazonV     3:11 am
ArPharazonV (3:11:04):
Ehh. Varda's grown used to my dating method by now.
Menelvagor Valar     3:11 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:11:12):
haha :-)
Menelvagor Valar (3:11:21):
good to know yer people I suppose :-D
VardaValar1     3:11 am
VardaValar1 (3:11:21):
How about they can use a nickname, but it cuts out any other use of that person's name?
ArPharazonV     3:11 am
ArPharazonV (3:11:31):
small-medium-large still makes more sense to me than medium-small-large, to be honest
VardaValar1     3:11 am
VardaValar1 (3:11:43):
ArPharazonV     3:11 am
ArPharazonV (3:11:48):
but eh, tradition's tradition
Menelvagor Valar     3:11 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:11:54):
Specific names of characters (nicknames are allowed),
Menelvagor Valar (3:11:59):
changed it to that :-D
VardaValar1     3:12 am
VardaValar1 (3:12:02):
In science classes, we do it that way.
VardaValar1 (3:12:22):
There'd be too much argument about what's a nickname.
Menelvagor Valar     3:12 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:12:22):
the rest of the names fall under the multitude of the same name thing :-)
ArPharazonV     3:12 am
ArPharazonV (3:12:36):
Samwise the Brave..
Menelvagor Valar     3:13 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:13:00):
that's a honorific, not a nickname.
ArPharazonV     3:13 am
ArPharazonV (3:13:05):
well, transcript is sent
VardaValar1     3:13 am
VardaValar1 (3:13:19):
Pardon, but what's wrong with Gothmog (the Balrog) and Gothmog (the Orc)?
ArPharazonV     3:13 am
ArPharazonV (3:13:19):
it's a suffix instead of an alternative?
Menelvagor Valar     3:13 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:13:29):
pretty much, yes.
VardaValar1     3:13 am
VardaValar1 (3:13:33):
Samwise would be the name we use for the gaming part.
VardaValar1 (3:13:43):
So Samwise (the Brave) would end in e.
VardaValar1 (3:13:53):
and we can't use Sam afterwards.
Menelvagor Valar     3:13 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:13:57):
So would Samwise Gamgee :-)
ArPharazonV     3:13 am
ArPharazonV (3:13:59):
hmm, what to choose... Samwise or Sam... Peregrin of Pippin (well, that gives the same result), Meriadoc and Merry...
ArPharazonV (3:14:06):
C or Y? Tricksy.
Menelvagor Valar     3:14 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:14:28):
C = Crebain
Menelvagor Valar (3:14:34):
Y = Yavannah.
ArPharazonV     3:14 am
ArPharazonV (3:14:37):
Nice :)
Menelvagor Valar     3:14 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:14:37):
VardaValar1     3:14 am
VardaValar1 (3:14:39):
That's why we say only one name version may be used, and all others after are considered as used already. Just like picking a guild name.
VardaValar1 (3:14:51):
Crebain is not a particular bird.
VardaValar1 (3:14:57):
Roak would be.
Menelvagor Valar     3:15 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:15:09):
nope, it's a specific name of a type of crow.
VardaValar1     3:15 am
VardaValar1 (3:15:21):
Aye, so we need to drop those group name.s
ArPharazonV     3:15 am
ArPharazonV (3:15:21):
specific names of people or a group of people or animals
ArPharazonV (3:15:25):
that includes Crebain
VardaValar1     3:15 am
VardaValar1 (3:15:34):
Just names of specific person or animal.
VardaValar1 (3:15:46):
No crebain or Sindar.
ArPharazonV     3:15 am
ArPharazonV (3:15:53):
what, so no Crebain? Nazgul? Mumakil? :)
VardaValar1     3:15 am
VardaValar1 (3:15:57):
ArPharazonV     3:16 am
ArPharazonV (3:16:03):
Menelvagor Valar     3:16 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:16:05):
so altered.
ArPharazonV     3:16 am
ArPharazonV (3:16:08):
Well, I'll leave you to it.
VardaValar1     3:16 am
VardaValar1 (3:16:09):
Has to be a particular being's name.
ArPharazonV     3:16 am
ArPharazonV (3:16:13):
See you next week or on the forums!
VardaValar1     3:16 am
VardaValar1 (3:16:20):
But that could be another game. :-)
VardaValar1 (3:16:26):
Only group names! hah!
Menelvagor Valar     3:16 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:16:29):
4 games... :-P
VardaValar1     3:16 am
VardaValar1 (3:16:34):
Namarie Phar!
VardaValar1     3:16 am
VardaValar1 (3:16:42):
These can be adapted for in AIM or in-game too. :-)
ArPharazonV     3:17 am
ArPharazonV (3:17:02):
Hmm, new games for everything!
ArPharazonV (3:17:07):
Let's make one for Dwarven females!
VardaValar1     3:17 am
VardaValar1 (3:17:09):
VardaValar1 (3:17:14):
Short :-)
VardaValar1 (3:17:18):
One name :-)
Menelvagor Valar     3:17 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:17:25):
Specific names of characters,
specific names of people or animals,
specific names of animals.

Not allowed:
Different versions of the same specific name (Strider and Aragorn are the same, so only one is allowed),
generic names for people / animals (rabbit, human elf are not allowed),
duplicates (Gothmog the Balrog and Gothmog the Orc may be two different characters, but they have the same name),
ArPharazonV     3:17 am
ArPharazonV (3:17:28):
Petty dwarves without a master list! Mim-mim-mim-mim-mim....
Menelvagor Valar     3:17 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:17:35):
that's the latest list :-)
VardaValar1     3:18 am
VardaValar1 (3:18:08):
Redundant on the top two rules?
Menelvagor Valar     3:18 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:18:17):
right :-)
VardaValar1     3:18 am
VardaValar1 (3:18:23):
or is the second line explaining the first?
Menelvagor Valar     3:18 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:18:30):
dropped rule 2.
ArPharazonV     3:18 am
ArPharazonV (3:18:42):
Yes. And if you're disabling group names all together, might as well remove the generic names for people/animals and replace it.
VardaValar1     3:19 am
VardaValar1 (3:19:11):
Duplicate names - tricky.
ArPharazonV     3:19 am
ArPharazonV (3:19:15):
Now! Namarie!
ArPharazonV (3:19:26):
See you later, because I'm far over time.
VardaValar1     3:19 am
VardaValar1 (3:19:28):
I think they should be allowed, but need to be shown which is which.
VardaValar1 (3:19:30):
Go go!
Menelvagor Valar     3:19 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:19:37):
altered to: "group names (Mummakil, Mearas are not allowed,"
VardaValar1     3:19 am
VardaValar1 (3:19:38):
Rest fast!
ArPharazonV has left the room.
3:19 am
Menelvagor Valar     3:20 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:20:49):
Shall I drop a note that other name games might be forthcoming?
Menelvagor Valar (3:20:52):
Menelvagor Valar (3:20:59):
almost forgot the most important rule of all.
VardaValar1     3:21 am
VardaValar1 (3:21:01):
Just put the games up. :-)
Menelvagor Valar     3:21 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:21:17):
All names must start with the last letter of the previous name!
VardaValar1     3:21 am
VardaValar1 (3:21:22):
Menelvagor Valar     3:21 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:21:49):
posting now :-)
VardaValar1     3:21 am
VardaValar1 (3:21:59):
If there's confusion, the first posting of rules can be modified slightly as needed. But we need to keep the rules short.
VardaValar1 (3:22:01):
Menelvagor Valar     3:22 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:22:10):
if there's anything you'd like to change, say so now :-)
VardaValar1     3:22 am
VardaValar1 (3:22:21):
I think I did?
Menelvagor Valar     3:23 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:23:10):
Okies :-)
VardaValar1     3:26 am
VardaValar1 (3:26:33):
Need to kick off the game with the first name.
VardaValar1 (3:27:07):
Or I can. :-)
Menelvagor Valar     3:27 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:27:28):
yeah, posting all games first, then replying with the master list post, so all master lists will be directly below the rules post, and names can begin thereafter :-)
VardaValar1     3:27 am
VardaValar1 (3:27:35):
Very good.
VardaValar1 (3:28:22):
*wants to start playing*
VardaValar1     3:28 am
VardaValar1 (3:28:35):
I could post a name under your master list now?
Menelvagor Valar     3:28 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:28:50):
yep :-)
VardaValar1     3:30 am
VardaValar1 (3:30:06):
You can see how I rigged a master list on the first post for the Silmarillion game.
VardaValar1 (3:30:13):
I like your system just great!
Menelvagor Valar     3:30 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:30:23):
Thanks :-)
Menelvagor Valar     3:30 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:30:36):
You know I like things to be tidy when it comes to computer stuff :-P
VardaValar1     3:30 am
VardaValar1 (3:30:54):
VardaValar1 (3:31:16):
Looks like I didn't update the latest Sil trivia list.
Menelvagor Valar     3:31 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:31:16):
all are up, just missing a place when I can install languages.
Menelvagor Valar (3:31:20):
maybe with items?
VardaValar1     3:31 am
VardaValar1 (3:31:32):
Menelvagor Valar     3:31 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:31:34):
there aren't all that many languages though..
VardaValar1     3:31 am
VardaValar1 (3:31:44):
VardaValar1 (3:31:58):
Ardalambion has a long list but
VardaValar1 (3:32:04):
maybe not a separate game.
Menelvagor Valar     3:32 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:32:07):
aside from the racial languages, there's a couple for Elven languages.
VardaValar1     3:32 am
VardaValar1 (3:32:24):
Adunaic is also Numenorean
VardaValar1     3:32 am
VardaValar1 (3:32:43):
Since the list is so short, maybe allow versions.
Menelvagor Valar     3:32 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:32:44):
for the races, I added subraces :-)
Menelvagor Valar (3:32:49):
maybe I should clarify?
VardaValar1     3:32 am
VardaValar1 (3:32:56):
example maybe.
Menelvagor Valar     3:33 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:33:18):
such like Numenorean and Dunedain are considered two different subraces?
VardaValar1     3:33 am
VardaValar1 (3:33:44):
sub sub race there. hehe
Menelvagor Valar     3:33 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:33:55):
yeah lol
VardaValar1     3:33 am
VardaValar1 (3:33:58):
Numenoreans are a subset of Dunedain.
Menelvagor Valar     3:34 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:34:06):
other way around? :-D
Menelvagor Valar (3:34:20):
Numenoreans are a subset of Edain :-D
Menelvagor Valar     3:34 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:34:53):
I think for the races I may need to add a rule.
Menelvagor Valar (3:35:09):
Races are to be named in singular. maybe?
VardaValar1     3:35 am
VardaValar1 (3:35:27):
To get around everything ending in "s", heh.
Menelvagor Valar     3:35 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:35:33):
Menelvagor Valar (3:35:39):
so Dwarves would be Dwarf.
VardaValar1     3:36 am
VardaValar1 (3:36:00):
Naugrim and Dwarf, would they be separate to give more names, or called a version not to be used?
VardaValar1 (3:36:09):
I'd love to hear from Eonwe on this stuff. :-)
Menelvagor Valar     3:36 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:36:14):
But those that only have a plural are allowed in plural of course, such as Crebain and Naugrim.
VardaValar1     3:36 am
VardaValar1 (3:36:27):
Craban is singular
Menelvagor Valar     3:36 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:36:28):
Menelvagor Valar (3:36:50):
I think I may need to demolish the different version rule on this one :-D
Menelvagor Valar     3:37 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:37:00):
because a subrace is a different version :-P
VardaValar1     3:37 am
VardaValar1 (3:37:49):
One race is called by multiple names since they are being referred to by other races by definition.
Menelvagor Valar     3:38 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:38:24):
Please note that all names will have to be in singular if at all possible. (So Dwarf, not Dwarves!)
Menelvagor Valar (3:38:57):
such as?
Menelvagor Valar     3:40 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:40:16):
Wizards and the what's the other name?
VardaValar1     3:42 am
VardaValar1 (3:42:01):
Istari (pl) Istar (s)
Menelvagor Valar     3:42 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:42:27):
thanks :-)
VardaValar1     3:43 am
VardaValar1 (3:43:12):
Wow, I'm really behind on the Sil trivia question list. Bookmarked it now.
VardaValar1 (3:43:40):
No one ever commented on that, heh.
Menelvagor Valar     3:44 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:44:20):
heh :-P
Menelvagor Valar     3:44 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:44:28):
I kicked them all off with a name :-) \
Menelvagor Valar (3:44:48):
maybe have wrong spelling on the item one :-)
Menelvagor Valar (3:45:20):
the last letter remains the same though, and I already have 2 rather obvious replies to that one :-)
VardaValar1     3:46 am
VardaValar1 (3:46:28):
You meant Aeglos, didn't you?
Menelvagor Valar     3:46 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:46:32):
aye :-)
VardaValar1     3:46 am
VardaValar1 (3:46:48):
yay for the modify button which I have used so often! hehe
Menelvagor Valar     3:47 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:47:22):
Menelvagor Valar (3:47:29):
added the description just to be sure :-)
VardaValar1     3:47 am
VardaValar1 (3:47:41):
VardaValar1 (3:47:50):
Wow, I see why the Sil posting got hard.
VardaValar1 (3:48:06):
They were riddles, not all that short during part of it.
Menelvagor Valar     3:48 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:48:12):
hehe :-P
VardaValar1     3:49 am
VardaValar1 (3:49:23):
Do I post the entire riddle in the master list?
Menelvagor Valar     3:49 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:49:51):
depends :-)
Menelvagor Valar (3:50:18):
You could simply link to the page if it is overly long :-P
Menelvagor Valar (3:51:09):
Menelvagor Valar     3:51 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:51:30):
just caught our little slacker herald in WoW :-D
Menelvagor Valar (3:52:44):
apparently he had to come and help a friend :-)
VardaValar1     3:53 am
VardaValar1 (3:53:17):
VardaValar1     3:53 am
VardaValar1 (3:53:53):
I found my previous way of handling it was : a riddle by Ancalagon on page 3.
Menelvagor Valar     3:54 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:54:03):
would work too :-)
VardaValar1     3:56 am
VardaValar1 (3:56:11):
It was to save space. I could post the whole riddle. I did post them on the quiz page.
VardaValar1 (3:57:01):
If I add them all, the references to page numbers might become incorrect! hehehe
VardaValar1 (3:57:50):
I wonder if I should put dates on the questions.
VardaValar1 (3:58:00):
(Just love to complicate things, huh?)
Menelvagor Valar     3:59 am
Menelvagor Valar (3:59:47):
hehe :-)
Menelvagor Valar (3:59:50):
Nah :-)
VardaValar1     4:09 am
VardaValar1 (4:09:44):
Namarie Menel :-)
Menelvagor Valar     4:09 am
Menelvagor Valar (4:09:56):
Namarie Varda :-)
VardaValar1     4:17 am
VardaValar1 (4:17:37):
Sure hope there's not a limit to the post size. :-)   The Sil trivia master list is being updated.
VardaValar1     4:24 am
VardaValar1 (4:24:43):
Sil trivia now updated. It was Ancalagon's turn to ask a question on 5 Sept. 2009.
VardaValar1     4:27 am
VardaValar1 (4:27:21):
LotR trivia thread stopped on Ancalagon as well, 25 June 2009.
pallandovalar has left the room.
4:38 am
VardaValar1     5:51 am
VardaValar1 (5:51:33):
Not his fault. We should've picked up the ball after a while.
VardaValar1 (5:52:02):
Chores done, going to go to LotRO. Cheerio!
VardaValar1 has left the room.
5:52 am
karakedi25 has left the room.