Valar Guild

October 10, 2010 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

Back to News
Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, and Varda.

Attending: ()

Meeting begins
    Chat marathon for the 13th anniversary continues through this meeting.
    New member this week: Beregond-(V)
    Malva-(V) is still a member of the overall guild although she had to pull out of the LotRO kinship.
    Belladonna Took-(V) earned her promotion from initiate to Full Member.
    13th Anniversary chat

    SC2 and others
    Galdor's topic: Gandalf was on Weathertop fighting the Nazgul. How many Nazgul? What do we know or are able to speculate about what happened?
    Tolkien Trivia game
    The chat marathon ends, if we'd just get out of the room. ;)  Feel free to keep it open as much or as long as you like!
VardaValar1: It's that time!
VardaValar1: Now inviting.
TulkasValar61 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Tulkas :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya Tulkas.
TulkasValar61: Good Afternoon
VardaValar1: How many of you are actively here? Please type Aye
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: Aye
TulkasValar61: aye
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
ArPharazonV: Well, it's a decent start

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Welcome to the end meeting of the 13th Anniversary Chat Marathon!
karakedi25: Aiya
VardaValar1: Congratulations to all the steadfast folks who've helped hold open the room all week. : )
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
karakedi25: Aye as well :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: All of you are most definitely of that number. Thanks for being here. : )
VardaValar1: We had a new member join us in LotRO this week: Beregond-(V).
VardaValar1: Another completed the test, but was still trying to work out a name. We all know how tough that can be.
karakedi25: We're growing by leaps and bounds, it seems.
VardaValar1: And Malva-(V) did not leave the overall guild, that was my misunderstanding. She remains in the overall guild and still is in contact with us in the LotRO friend channel.
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
VardaValar1: I'm reminded, thanks Eonwe,
TulkasValar61: I played a game with her mini Tulipan, she said she loved valar but her other lotro kin was more demanding
VardaValar1: that Belladonna Took has gone from initiate to Full Member this week. : )
VardaValar1: Aye, it is, because they are raiders that take all the time she has.
ArPharazonV: Ahh, I know that feeling.
VardaValar1: One reason we have been making a collection of healers is to keep from putting so much on one or two people constantly, causing burn-out.
VardaValar1: We have several good, up and coming minstrels especially. : )

VardaValar1: Thanks to all of you for keeping the Valar Guild going for a full 13 years!
VardaValar1: Some of us are here from the very first days, and others joined and somehow liked what they saw and stuck with us.
VardaValar1: Every member, from oldest to newest, has proven their quality, and we value each one.
TulkasValar61: Thanks to Varda for being the mortar that has held these bricks together over the years
karakedi25: absolutely
VardaValar1: Thank you for being steadfast with us for so long, Tulkas. : )
VardaValar1: Many of you contributed to the Tolkien Site, a huge help to not only us but to people all over the world.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, it would take a week to list everything you've done. Shall we give it a try? : )
Eonwe Valar: No need :}
VardaValar1: Thanks for your hours and hours of programming, of making the Games Site, of helping the Tolkien Site, of helping the Community pages, of helping the Forum.
VardaValar1: for handling the WoW group now and other groups before.
VardaValar1: For often chairing.
TulkasValar61: :-$ just checking to see if smileys are working
VardaValar1: For helping me keep my chin up. : )
VardaValar1: lol - that is quite a smiley!
VardaValar1: There's more to tell about Eonwe, but hey, he said no need. ;-)
VardaValar1: Save us a couple of pages of transcript.
VardaValar1: Arien, thank you for working with the Eurpean WoW group as long as you did. For helping with the Tolkien Site. You've chaired for us in the meeting at times even. : )
VardaValar1: Phar, the one who gave us fair copies of the transcript for lo these many years! For being at the meetings perhaps more than I have.
ArPharazonV: Hah.
karakedi25: :-)
VardaValar1: For his lively chat in the Tolkien and games sections both.
karakedi25: and for asking good questions!
VardaValar1: Indis, for keeping LotRO lively and being there for us so very much! For pushing us when we need it in all sorts of areas.
karakedi25: *blush*
VardaValar1: Menel, for keeping us on our toes in the meetings. ;-)
VardaValar1: This is all just a touch on what you do, you know how much I'm leaving out, but at least you got a mention!
VardaValar1: Tulkas mentions that today is Canadian Thanksgiving, excellent! May your food be delicious and company sparkling!
karakedi25: yum yum gobble gobble :-)
VardaValar1: We're having a sort of thanksgiving here too, just glad to still be here after all these years and all the changes we've weathered.
VardaValar1: If anyone would like to say a few words, maybe about the guild and what it's done or you'd like to see it do in the future, now's the time!
karakedi25: We can give thanks for the continued existence of Valinor, represented by the Valarites in our Middle-earth!
VardaValar1: (My screen says Tulkas is typing.)
TulkasValar61: For my last 12 and a half years this Guild has been a good safe place to come for fun, knowledge, and pleasant company. I think a guild of this sort on the Internet with this longevity is almost unheard of..I will be interested to see if FaceBook lasts this long ;-)
VardaValar1: hehehe
VardaValar1: I haven't really tried to follow any other guild. This one's been quite enough. : )
ArPharazonV: Thank you Valar, for providing an environment where we can not only share our common interest of Middle-Earth, but also feel safe among honorable people we can trust, and share news and organise online activities with each other! I'm sure the Guild has had an influence on all our online lives at least, and hopefully our offline lives as well.
AriehnV: it sure has on mine and even on me so called "real" life ;-)
AriehnV: my thanks to the Valar guild as well
VardaValar1: Thank you for the gazillion side-window comments over all these years. Those don't show publicly but they are treasured moments. : )
karakedi25: The Valar Guild has been a haven for me, a place where I can be among others who share my interests, on whom I can count for ethical behavior and good language (not just avoidance of profanity but also good, accurate language use).
VardaValar1: JRRT, linguist, and his lonnnng reach!
karakedi25: It's a place where I can count on good common sense!
ArPharazonV: *clears throat* Lololol?
karakedi25: Three cheers for JRRT
AriehnV: *hooray hooray hooray*
ArPharazonV: *cheers thrice*
VardaValar1: Huzzah huzzah huzzah!
karakedi25: /cheer /cheer /cheer :-)
VardaValar1: He gave us a common meeting ground and way to express ourselves. He showed the ideals we all admire in story form, where we can speak of them in a way that works.
TulkasValar61: Even when you are yelled at in an instance for doing something is done in the most polite, properlly phrased dressing down possible :-D
karakedi25: :D
Eonwe Valar: I can imagine that... "Tulkas, be a good chap and let the tank get aggro first, would you?" :}
ArPharazonV: hmm, who'd be the tank in the Valar team?
karakedi25: Normally I'd expect Tulkas
karakedi25: but he's switched roles with Orome
VardaValar1: Interesting, among the book Valar, Tulkas was at times for sure.
VardaValar1: Orome used a bow a lot. : )
karakedi25: He was the hunter
VardaValar1: Namo knows what's coming.
VardaValar1: Irmo gives visions of suggestions of what to do, purpose. Buff?
VardaValar1: Manwe sees everything and can go directly to Eru at need.
VardaValar1: Tulkas wrestled Morgoth directly. I'd call that a guardian tank!
TulkasValar61: Tulkas was definitley the tank,,,rushing off after Melkor like he did.
VardaValar1: Aye : )
ArPharazonV: So Irmo's the questgiver?
VardaValar1: Varda heard everything. Helps in organizing.
AriehnV: Arien the Maya would be a rune keeper with all that burning she does , eh?
VardaValar1: hehe
karakedi25: Yavanna the healer?
karakedi25: or Este
AriehnV: i think Este would be more a loremaster
VardaValar1: Este is a healer, true.
AriehnV: Yavanne a healer orientated runekeeper i think while Arien does the blasiting
VardaValar1: Yavanna's a tough one. She makes the living things, pretty much. A Dev? : )
ArPharazonV: A GM?
ArPharazonV: Or maybe a Dev...
Eonwe Valar: Manwë, Ulmo, Aulë, Varda, Yavanna, Irmo, Namo, would probably allqualify as Devs.
VardaValar1: Eonwe leads the battles.
VardaValar1: True that.
AriehnV: raidleader
ArPharazonV: Leaders tend to have buffs or auras.
ArPharazonV: He'd probably do the battle shout in Warcraft.
karakedi25: Captain Eonwe
ArPharazonV: And Heroism.
karakedi25: that's the captain role in lotro
AriehnV: Eonwe u need a Draenei warrior ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Eh, he'd have every Paladin aura on at once in WoW, plus a multi-facet blessing, hehe.
VardaValar1: hehe
TulkasValar61: I am going AFK to finish perparing supper, mangle the bird, burn the gravy, lump up the potatoes..that sort of thing
VardaValar1: rofl
VardaValar1: Sounds fun : )
AriehnV: *giggles*
ArPharazonV: Hmm, now I'm hungry.
VardaValar1: Wisks help get rid of lumps in gravy and potatoes (sneaky tip).
VardaValar1: *whistles innocently*
ArPharazonV: Mangled bird with burned gravy sounds delicious.
VardaValar1: Just call it brown gravy!
karakedi25: or blackened gravy--that's fashionable
TulkasValar61: Ive got scratched the heck out of me when I was pulling them off his face...and exactly how do they pertain to gravy and potatoes..I guess I will have to figure that out on the fly
ArPharazonV: fashionably late in turning off the heat?
karakedi25: I don't blame the cat at all!
VardaValar1: hehehe
karakedi25: Tulkas, a whisk is a kitchen tool for beating up eggs and such.
VardaValar1: He knows, just punning around. ;-)
fladrifv has entered the room.
AriehnV: not a whisker?
AriehnV: ^^
fladrifv: Aiya
VardaValar1: I'm headed over to eat at Tulkas' house!
VardaValar1: Aiya Ent!
fladrifv: all week in chat, then missing the meeting :-)
AriehnV: aiya Ent and welcome :-D
AriehnV: hehe
VardaValar1: Fangorn says "Hello!"
ArPharazonV: I think we're still in membership or something :-)
VardaValar1: Aye.
fladrifv: Hoom boom bom booom hom fangorn
VardaValar1: We were chatting about old days and these days, kidding around. : )
fladrifv: the days the ents where still walking and were younge of mind?
VardaValar1: And we have Fladrif who keeps coming to these meetings every Sunday for a long time now, holding the place up!
karakedi25: as one might hope from a tree
AriehnV: well he has rooots that have to grow somewhere :-)
fladrifv: its a pleasure to such a warm welcome
VardaValar1: Since we've been nearly an hour in Membership *cough* perhaps I should move along before you folks think I've gone treeish too!
AriehnV: *sends more rays around Fladrif's bark*
fladrifv: oh only one hour, you are quite hasty varda
VardaValar1: But Fladrif gets to say a few words if he likes, and then kick off the Gaming section with whatever he's been up to!
VardaValar1: Go for it!
VardaValar1: hehe
fladrifv: *looks around* well hmmm
ArPharazonV: No web news?
VardaValar1: o right, thanks. I could do it out of order, heh.
AriehnV: my that would be a first :-D
VardaValar1: (See why we need lots of members to keep things straight?)
fladrifv: its not the road but the result that is straight
AriehnV: wise words ent :-)
VardaValar1: Nice one.
fladrifv: but to keep some order in the chaos ill await the webnews then :-)
VardaValar1: Ok, thank you. Did you want to make any comment under Membership news first? 13th anniversary and all?
fladrifv: 13 years of existence, a very small piece of history is written here. just a branch finding its way to the first sunrays. still locked up in the soil. Were still younge valarguild! let us not loose flexibility and will power yet, that is for the weary and old
karakedi25: (afk)
fladrifv: *walks off stage*
VardaValar1: Thank you, Fladrif!
ArPharazonV: Well spoken.
VardaValar1: A good reminder! We should consider the future and not let ourselves go stale. The new members are an enormous aid in helping us there, especially, with their enthusiasm for what is new for them.

VardaValar1: On to Web : )
VardaValar1: For the anniversary, we've had several entries sent in, all very much appreciated. Others are still a-borning and we await them eagerly.
VardaValar1: They are collected on a special page:
VardaValar1: that will continue to be updated as the entries keep coming in. : )
VardaValar1: That AIM marathon list obviously needs updated! Your aid there is welcome.
ArPharazonV: Well, I'm pretty sure I saw Menelvagor at some point :-)
VardaValar1: I'm also missing two of the LotROmails from Eonwe, which should be added in this week, I hope. : )  [Note: added during After-meeting.]
VardaValar1: Who? ;-)
ArPharazonV: *points up to the stars*
VardaValar1: Oh! Him. : )
karakedi25: back
VardaValar1: Now adding that Menel guy.
VardaValar1: and Tulkas who seems to be right here too.
AriehnV: oh aye can confirm of the starry warrior's presence
AriehnV: (- of )
VardaValar1: I was scribbling a list somewhere in this pile of papers, but those who were here almost constantly can probably add to it, and it would be appreciated when you get time. : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, would you like to add to the Web news?
Eonwe Valar: I'm afraid I have nothing at the moment.
Eonwe Valar: Still working on putting together the Elves article.
VardaValar1: Looking forward to that one!
VardaValar1: My article was far easier. Think how much was written about Elves in all those books! *phlop*

VardaValar1: On to Gaming!
VardaValar1: Let's start with non-WoW, non-LotR. : )
fladrifv: sounds like an ents topic
VardaValar1: Fladrif, did you have any gaming news?
VardaValar1: Aye : )

VardaValar1: (Congrats again on being so awesome in Chess!)
fladrifv: for those who didnt know it I won the almost not so famous chess tournament
AriehnV: hehe :-) huzzah aagain
fladrifv: they are still fighting who to take tha bait for place 2 and 3 but I ran off with the 1st place
VardaValar1: It was an endurance contest as much as gaming skill! : ) Went a long time.
fladrifv: only 1.5 years
VardaValar1: Ent. : )
fladrifv: hehe

fladrifv: I will start up with starcraft again when I have a bit more time
ArPharazonV: Congrats :-)
fladrifv: as always if anyone wants to play a game of chess, youre most welcome
ArPharazonV: And I hope to see you in Starcraft! I might even have caught up with you in missions at this point but I doubt it.
fladrifv: need to find a way to get my missions back
fladrifv: had to reinstall
fladrifv: and have my points but not my mission progress for some reason
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Achievements are stored online, yes.
VardaValar1: öuch!
ArPharazonV: As for mission progress and savegames... they should be *somewhere*
fladrifv: hehe swedish outch :-)
ArPharazonV: if you didn't delete em all with the reinstall
fladrifv: *points to a dead hardisk*
ArPharazonV: should be somewhere in your documents and settings folder
VardaValar1: Bilbo and Sauron have been going through the SC2 missions. Sauron's gone through three times at least, I think.
ArPharazonV: Aw.
ArPharazonV: Then you might have to start over.
fladrifv: its a nice story
fladrifv: almost profetic at times
VardaValar1: *places a lily on the hard disk*
Eonwe Valar: If you relied on auto-save, I *think* that's saved online too, as part of the supposed boon of being always connected to
fladrifv: oh hmm how to get that back
Eonwe Valar: I remember reading that at some point at least.
ArPharazonV: I did another one this week, mission.. 17 or so. For me, Engine of Destruction. Quite fun, though I don't like missions where you have to protect units that aren't under your control.
fladrifv: ok nothing for the meeting
ArPharazonV: Autosaves... the ones that drop off the Recent list are only saved on your harddrive, I know that, not sure about the recent ones.
VardaValar1: Any other non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming?
AriehnV: but battlenet seems to be down atm

ArPharazonV: well, besides that Starcraft II.. I also did some Guild Wars, a few more missions, heading into the Northern Shiverpeaks.
AriehnV: maybe tomorrosw when its back working ..
ArPharazonV: I stumbled on the other buyable campaigns for GW in a store this weekend, pretty cheap, but didn't buy them yet... might go back during the next week to pick em up and get a full collection.

ArPharazonV: I also joined an online free browsergame, a bit like Ogame or other such styled games, where you have to build up troops and fight other players over a long, long time (months, years) but this one also has RPG elements and heroes and quests, so that should be nice.
ArPharazonV: Not sure if I should mention it because it might be somewhat... religiously offensive... but it's a browsergame based on the Bible (story of Genesis to start with), called the Bible Online
VardaValar1: Maybe it's intended as a teaching tool.
ArPharazonV: I'm not a religious person myself, but I've always liked the history described in it, and well, I don't need to believe in the world of Warcraft either to enjoy playing in it.
ArPharazonV: So it should be a fun experience.
VardaValar1: Maybe you could dig up the url in a bit? : )
fladrifv: quicker then 13 years from now? ;-)
ArPharazonV: If anyone wants to try it, I happen to be on the first English server (it's only just started, only English1 and German1 are up, I'm sure other languages will follow too) under the name Calaron.
VardaValar1: It is a major historical document and helps us understand civilizations and major religions, whether or not one believes in it.
VardaValar1: Thanks : )
ArPharazonV: Indeed, Varda :-)
VardaValar1: (Which I do, not that that is important in this context. : )
ArPharazonV: Well, as long as we agree to disagree on that respect, I guess we're fine :-)
VardaValar1: Are we ready to move to WoW? Dón't want to step on toes.
VardaValar1: Absolutely, Phar my phriend. : )
ArPharazonV: nah, 's all I have to say for this week
VardaValar1: Eonwe, your floor!
ArPharazonV: so go ahead unless other people have something
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.

Eonwe Valar: First, the biggest WoW news of the week: the Cataclysm expansion release date has been officially announced as December 7th.
VardaValar1: Huzzah!
Eonwe Valar: Of course I intend to be standing outside my local game store for a collector's edition, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: *at midnight.
Eonwe Valar: The Cataclysm *will* be happening before then.
ArPharazonV: I ordered it twice this week. First one reported as sold out two days later, with the store informing me that it was no longer to buy, and today I stumbled on another store that still had some.
ArPharazonV: *I was no longer able to buy it
galdorandwe has entered the room.
galdorandwe: Aiya.
Eonwe Valar: The 4.0.3 patch will introduce world changes. The 4.0.1 patch, which *might* be coming this Tuesday, will introduce the talant and ui changes.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Galdor : )
Eonwe Valar: I say *might* because you can never be absolutely sure about anything until Blizzard makes it official.
karakedi25: Aiya Galdor
VardaValar1: Tuesday's not a long time to wait to find out. : )
Eonwe Valar: As a reminder Zul'Gurub will no longer be a raid once the Cataclysm happens, so if you're trying for those raptor mounts, you better get in as many runs as you can now.
Eonwe Valar: *raptor or tiger mounts.
AriehnV: hehe
VardaValar1: Eep! Bilbo really wants that. (I have my tiger, hehe.)
VardaValar1: Bilbo will probably want some raptor runs.
ArPharazonV: Went there today again to try for the raptor, no luck. Got my tiger a while ago, and the raptor pet this week. Just gotta kill the boss over and over again now.
Eonwe Valar: At level 80, the place can be solo'd. All you need is someone to group with to create a raid.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar:
Eonwe Valar: Brewfest ended this past week, and on the last day I managed to get the Brewfest Kodo on my Priest, giving one of the characters I hardly ever touch both the Brewfest Ram and the Kodo, and leaving Auros with nothing to show for his runs but Frost Emblems. Urion, on the other hand, ended up with 3 remotes.
Eonwe Valar: I hope everyone else was more fortunate :}
ArPharazonV: Got my ram about a week earlier, which concluded my looting runs since I already had kodo, remote and all the trinkets from last year ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I also regret I was unable to make it onto Lothar for anniversary festivities.
ArPharazonV: And I really should stop bragging.
VardaValar1: Grats Phar, for doing things worth bragging about. : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, that's rl for you. : )
AriehnV: oh yeah got the mounts as well#
Eonwe Valar: That's the extent of my WoW report. In related Blizzard news though, they've made a change to the authenticators that anyone with one should know about. See if here:
AriehnV: ram and kodo
VardaValar1: That url took me to SC2
ArPharazonV: Let's see, what was it.. tied to one account, but able to put more games to one account now?
Eonwe Valar: It affects all accounts with an authenticator, that just happened to be the easiest-to-grab link I had.
VardaValar1: Thanks

VardaValar1: On to LotRO:
VardaValar1: Indis, would you like to give a report on LotRO doings?
TulkasValar61 has left the room.
karakedi25: I don't have a huge amount to say. We seem to have settled fairly well into the free-to-play system, which doesn't affect our higher levels much.
VardaValar1: What about lower levels?
karakedi25: Most of the higher levels have pretty much gotten through most of the new area and now do daily quests there.
karakedi25: As for lower levels, we have a range of people coming up in a variety of classes. Most of our new people are not at level cap, and sometimes we run groups to help them.
karakedi25: Varda started a minstrel whom she has brought to the mid-50's, and since that time, we have had several more come out of the woodwork, so to speak
karakedi25: We run two official instances a week, and they are frequently oversubscribed--latecomers may be disappointed.
karakedi25: As a result perhaps, I think we're seeing more people show up on time :p
VardaValar1: hehe
karakedi25: Today we ran an older instance, Carn Dum, to help a member get an item he needs to advance his class capacity....
karakedi25: and had a good time, though we were delayed by the need to get gate keys that none of the alts playing had, so we didn't reach the boss with the item. Therefore, to be continued...
karakedi25: But we had a good time.
karakedi25: Anything else, you lotro-ites?
karakedi25: Anything to add?
VardaValar1: Wednesday we ran Fil Gashan which was bugged, and Forges.
VardaValar1: Trying to remember what we ran Monday. Needing help. : )
karakedi25: it's slipped my mind altogether---maybe a classic instance?
VardaValar1: Ok, onwards to Tolkien then. : )

VardaValar1: Tolkien:

VardaValar1: The plan is trivia, but Galdor wanted to mention this topic for your enjoyment first:
VardaValar1: Oddly the message is gone now, but from what I remember:
VardaValar1: Gandalf was on Weathertop fighting the Nazgul. How many Nazgul? What do we know or are able to speculate about what happened?
ArPharazonV: ! That calls for.. Unfinished Tales.
karakedi25: five I think
karakedi25: others were on other errands
VardaValar1: Gandalf also told a bit about it in the LotR.
VardaValar1: Council of Elrond?
karakedi25: oh sorry, Gandalf, not the fellowship
AriehnV: i remember that Aragaron found a blackened stone
VardaValar1: Aye
AriehnV: and Frodo remembered some lightining coming from the hill top
AriehnV: or i cant remeber .. might have been Aragorn , but somebody mentioned lightning
karakedi25: I remember that. They saw it from Midgewater, I think.
VardaValar1: aye, lightning was seen coming up from the hill, an oddity indeed.
ArPharazonV: Can't find it in UT. It doesn't seem to continue the riders' tale beyond the Shire.
VardaValar1: found it, in The Council of Elrond
VardaValar1: The Nazgul arrived at Weathertop before Gandalf.
VardaValar1: They didn't dare face him until after night fell.
VardaValar1: He was in the old ring of Amon Sul.
VardaValar1: ""Such light and flame cannot have been seen on Weathertop since the war-beacons of old.
VardaValar1: He escaped at sunrise and fled north.
VardaValar1: In doing so, he drew all nine Nazgul with him, away from Frodo.
VardaValar1: but
VardaValar1: only four followed him, then turned back to the Ford.
VardaValar1: That helped a little since only five, not nine, attacked their camp.
VardaValar1: Ok, did that answer Galdor's topic? : )
VardaValar1: and I just found his question, lol.
VardaValar1: Here it is:
VardaValar1: Basically, I wanted to know how many Nazgul were fighting with gandalf on Weather top? And how do you imagine the fight went? Obviously fire was involved, but what did that fight look like?
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: So nine, with a ton of pyrotechnics at night of light and flame. : )
ArPharazonV: If Aragorn can fend em off with a torch, imagine how well a wizard would do.

Menelvagor Valar: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Menel seems to have awakened. :-) Aiya
VardaValar1: We are ready to start into the trivia section of the Tolkien chat, just about.
VardaValar1: You might want to pick up a drink or snack first?
ArPharazonV: I'm gonna be leaving in about 20 minutes probably, I have to get up early tomorrow, for once.
Menelvagor Valar: No need, did so as I got in :-)
ArPharazonV: But we'll see!

VardaValar1: Phar, would you like to do the first question since you have a time problem?
VardaValar1: Fire when ready, Golden One!
ArPharazonV: Ehrrr! This'll be interesting.
VardaValar1: Anyone may answer.
VardaValar1: Questions from H, LotR, or Sil are fair game!

ArPharazonV: What did Sam dream about during nightmare-night in Tom Bombadil's House?
Menelvagor Valar: good question... and can't recall :-P
Menelvagor Valar: aside from one dream that trees drew up to the house and water flooded the area...
VardaValar1: Branches scratching like fingers on the window?
ArPharazonV: nope
Menelvagor Valar: but no idea whose dream it was, or even whether it was multiple dreams :-P
Eonwe Valar: Sniffing?
ArPharazonV: trees and branches was Pippin, water was Merry.
Menelvagor Valar: harr harr ^^
ArPharazonV: not sniffing either
Menelvagor Valar: wait a sec... didn't one of the hobbits sleep like a log and not dream of much at all?
Eonwe Valar: Nothing was jumping to mind, so I thought I'd take a shot that the dealings with the Black Riders shaped Sam's dream.
ArPharazonV: And Menelvagor gives the correct answer!
VardaValar1: Yay!
Menelvagor Valar: *grin*
ArPharazonV: Sam indeed slept contented, if logs are content.
Menelvagor Valar: so I got 3 out of 4 dreams lolz :-P
VardaValar1: (and Bilbo-V says hi! Just got home from a friend's wedding.)
Menelvagor Valar: Hey Bilbo! :-)
ArPharazonV: Frodo dreamt about Gandalf on Isengard, by the way.

Menelvagor Valar: we questioning alphabetically, or by who gets the answer right?
VardaValar1: Arien is next.
VardaValar1: Phar went first because of a time crunch.
Menelvagor Valar: righto ^^
VardaValar1: alphabetically by our guild names, if we can keep track! : )
Menelvagor Valar: Good thing Indis is after Galdor and before me then ^^
VardaValar1: and afk
VardaValar1: Arien, are you there?
Menelvagor Valar: been 10 minutes since last communication from Arien.
AriehnV: oops
Menelvagor Valar: yays :-)
AriehnV: booh :-) , blushes
VardaValar1: Almost bypassed you Arien. : )
VardaValar1: Your turn to ask a question! Ok to take a second to think. H, LotR, Sil all good.
Menelvagor Valar: UT good too?
AriehnV: hmm let me think a second
VardaValar1: Nope. : )
Menelvagor Valar: dangit.
Menelvagor Valar: I am rather unsure whether the question I have in mind is from UT or Sil :-P
VardaValar1: You have time to look it up since you're not next. : )

AriehnV: who was to hold the pretense alive that Frodo was still in Crickhollow and how did that hobbit fare?
karakedi25: FAtty b
galdorandwe: Fatty Bolger
karakedi25: Bolger, and he was attacked at night, but he survived and called the alarm
ArPharazonV: and the horn sounded...
Menelvagor Valar: more or less from Sil, though better described in UT ^^
VardaValar1: Aye, Fredegar "Fatty"Bolger.
AriehnV: as far as i remember he sensed trouble before the attack and fled highly confused to the bridge guards who figured out there was some attack]
AriehnV: but yes you are right :-)
karakedi25: I believe he left his cloak behind, and Gandalf found it
Menelvagor Valar: Indis gets it I suppose :-)
VardaValar1: Aye, he was wearing Frodo's clothing, escaped out the back, and got the horn call of Buckland going of "Fear, Fire, Foes!
VardaValar1: "Yay Indis :-)

VardaValar1: Next up is Eonwe, alphabetically.
Eonwe Valar: *rubs hands together*
VardaValar1: eep
Menelvagor Valar: hihi
Menelvagor Valar: knowing Eonwë it's going to be so overly complicated I am bound to remember shreds of the complicatedness ^^
Eonwe Valar: Actually this one is easy.. if you can read calculus equations in the original Telerin!
Menelvagor Valar: oh dear ^^
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: But read them backwards.
Menelvagor Valar: pull it before us, oh messenger of the Valar! :-D
Menelvagor Valar: or Herald rather :-P
Menelvagor Valar: hmmm..
ArPharazonV: he's spending a lot of time setting this up...
Menelvagor Valar: If it's so easy, I would have expected a shorter question ^^
Eonwe Valar: Actually, I'll give you a fairly straightforward one: Name the Dwarf that made the doors on the west of Khazad-Dum, and the lord of the land adjacent to those doors.
VardaValar1: Narvi
Menelvagor Valar: is that the lord as well?
Eonwe Valar: No.
VardaValar1: Elrond
VardaValar1: Celebrimbor was there, heh
karakedi25: are you talking about Eregion or Moria?
VardaValar1: boy, *ducks and hides*
Eonwe Valar: Varda got it :}
ArPharazonV: weren't Galadriel and Celeborn in Eregion at some point?
ArPharazonV: Ah :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Hollin.
VardaValar1: Hollin - Eregion
Eonwe Valar: Celebrimbor was the last lord of Eregion, seeing as his reign ended when Sauron's armies washed through the place for the Rings of Power.
ArPharazonV: that blasted Sauron, always having to ruin a good time.
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Or more precicely, the only lord of Eregion, seeing as he founded the realm with other Noldor.
Eonwe Valar: *precisely

Menelvagor Valar: Indis is next I think, since it has been over an hour since Fladrif has gone Entish ^^
VardaValar1: Fladrif is next
VardaValar1: He and I are chatting. : )
ArPharazonV: Hmm, I managed to nudge Arien...maybe I'll try the Ent as well.
ArPharazonV: Ah, that works too :-)
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Flad. : )
fladrifv: Im not fully treeish
fladrifv: ok ill keep it simple
Menelvagor Valar: just being mysterious and entish ^^
fladrifv: Stands on a hill and doesnt dare to come down.
VardaValar1: Fladrif

ArPharazonV: Likely!
fladrifv: are you sure saruman is gone?
Menelvagor Valar: doubtful :-)
VardaValar1: You're safe. I'm here.
ArPharazonV: Allright, saving and sending here.
fladrifv: *roots and becomes treeish for the night*
fladrifv: namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie both of you :-)
galdorandwe: Namarie.
AriehnV: Namarie both
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well.
Menelvagor Valar: Ah, Galdor is around as well :-)
ArPharazonV (6:40:21 PM): saved
VardaValar1 (6:40:24 PM): Nice riddle. : )
Galdor (6:40:27 PM): Am I up next?
VardaValar1 (6:40:31 PM): Galdor is next, aye. : )
Menelvagor Valar (6:40:33 PM): Aye :-)

Eonwe Valar (6:40:40 PM): Don't forget to read the RP if you haven't, Phar :}
Galdor (6:40:44 PM): I'll lob an easy one in for you.
ArPharazonV (6:41:20 PM): I think I have, Eonwe.
ArPharazonV (6:41:34 PM): One company just joined and the rest in hiding, right?
Menelvagor Valar (6:41:52 PM): nothing about anything in hiding as far as I can see.
AriehnV (6:42:06 PM): i think it would make sense if two other groups would come fromo other direction
AriehnV (6:42:16 PM): so the orcs are nicely surrounded
ArPharazonV (6:42:31 PM): Good job of reminding me though. Calaron will make his retreat this week.
Eonwe Valar (6:42:36 PM): Pardon, didn't want to interrupt the trivia. Just wanted to remind Phar to check the RP if he hand't.
AriehnV (6:42:39 PM): sandwiched between us and nightelves
Eonwe Valar (6:42:52 PM): *hadn't
AriehnV (6:42:55 PM): err woodelves

Galdor (6:43:02 PM): Can I pose the question(s)?
ArPharazonV (6:43:07 PM): Go for it!
Menelvagor Valar (6:43:07 PM): aye, you can :-)
AriehnV (6:43:08 PM): sure go :-)
Eonwe Valar (6:43:10 PM): Aye Galdor, go for it.
VardaValar1 (6:43:10 PM): Please
ArPharazonV (6:43:45 PM): transcript sent!
VardaValar1 (6:44:06 PM): Thanks, Phar!
ArPharazonV (6:44:16 PM): I'll stay for Galdor's question and then go to bed
fladrifv has left the room. 6:44 pm
Galdor (6:44:22 PM): When Gandalf found Thrain in Dol Guldur, how long had Thrain been "away from his people" and (at least) how long had he been a prisoner there?
ArPharazonV (6:44:42 PM): Phew. Years. I'd guess at least a dozen.
Menelvagor Valar (6:44:52 PM): a couple years I think.
VardaValar1 (6:44:54 PM): They thought he was probably dead, so a good while.
karakedi25 (6:45:27 PM): 5 years
Galdor (6:45:51 PM): Indis...which is that an answer to?
karakedi25 (6:46:04 PM): how long had he been a prisoner
Galdor (6:46:08 PM): correct
VardaValar1 (6:46:14 PM): Yay Indis!
VardaValar1 (6:46:24 PM): Indis has the next question too. :-)
ArPharazonV (6:46:38 PM): well we still need to know how long he was wandering
Menelvagor Valar (6:47:06 PM): I would guess 6 or 7 years ^^
Galdor (6:47:07 PM): BTW...he'd been away from his people 9 years according to Gandalf's tale to the remaininf Fellowship members in Minas Tirith after the coronation...
VardaValar1 (6:47:20 PM): oops, sorry about that.
ArPharazonV (6:47:26 PM): Ah, that'd be UT?
Galdor (6:47:34 PM): Yes.
ArPharazonV (6:47:44 PM): Allright, Namarie all!
VardaValar1 (6:47:49 PM): We are in H, LotR, and Sil for this trivia run, which you surely didn't hear. : )
Galdor (6:47:50 PM): Namarie
AriehnV (6:47:52 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1 (6:47:53 PM): Nighty night, Phar!
ArPharazonV (6:47:54 PM): Will see you next week!
karakedi25 (6:48:00 PM): namarie Phar
Menelvagor Valar (6:48:02 PM): Nighty Phar.
Galdor (6:48:10 PM): I saw someone ask if UT was OK and no one said it wasn't.
ArPharazonV has left the room. 6:48 pm
AriehnV (6:48:21 PM): its ok :-)
Eonwe Valar (6:48:33 PM): Varda said "Nope" to Menel's asking.
Galdor (6:48:52 PM): I thought that was in response to a different question.
Galdor (6:48:56 PM): Oh well.
VardaValar1 (6:49:08 PM): Anyway, now we have the info. : )
karakedi25 (6:49:10 PM): not a big deal
Galdor (6:49:14 PM): Still, it didn't stump you.
VardaValar1 (6:49:30 PM): So 9 and 5?
karakedi25 (6:49:34 PM): yes
Galdor (6:49:35 PM): yes.
AriehnV (6:49:49 PM): thats 14 according to adam Riese
AriehnV (6:50:09 PM): 14 years all in all
Menelvagor Valar (6:51:06 PM): At any rate, Indis, your question :-D
Galdor (6:51:10 PM): No. 9 years away from his people and at least 5 of them in prison. I would have thought it was longer, like someone suggested earlier....last paragraph, pg 337 UT first edition.
AriehnV (6:51:19 PM): ah right
AriehnV (6:51:23 PM): oki :-)
AriehnV (6:51:28 PM): next question
VardaValar1 (6:51:56 PM): When Indis is ready, fire. : )
karakedi25 (6:51:59 PM): mine I think

karakedi25 (6:52:01 PM):
To whom did Gandalf say, "IF you have walked all these days with closed ears and mind asleep, wake up now!" When did he say it, and under what circumstances?
VardaValar1 (6:52:43 PM): Guessing to Merry and Pippin at Elrond's house, as they acted a bit thick sometimes, especially Pip.
karakedi25 (6:52:58 PM): reasonable guess but no
AriehnV (6:53:13 PM): Gandalf said it to Pippin , in Minas Tirith, when they were about to tell Denethor about boromir's death
karakedi25 (6:53:21 PM): that's it
karakedi25 (6:53:37 PM): for extra credit:
Galdor (6:53:40 PM): That's a great question.
VardaValar1 (6:53:48 PM): Great!
karakedi25 (6:53:51 PM): what was the topic that he hadn't paid attention to?
Galdor (6:54:20 PM): he being Gandalf or Pip?
AriehnV (6:54:22 PM): it precededed something like " its not the best announcing the arrival of the king when you re about tell the ruler of the loss of his heir
karakedi25 (6:54:28 PM): yes
AriehnV (6:54:30 PM): something like that
VardaValar1 (6:54:39 PM): Sounds like you got the gist!
karakedi25 (6:54:40 PM): Pippin was amazed that Aragorn was the king.
AriehnV (6:55:11 PM): aye :-)
VardaValar1 (6:55:40 PM): Poor Pippin. But so handy for explanations to the readers.
Menelvagor Valar (6:55:42 PM): Okies, I is next if you're alright with it :-)
AriehnV (6:55:45 PM): somehow that last part sticks better in my subconcious then the begginning of the book hehe
VardaValar1 (6:56:01 PM): Aye, Menel has the next one.

Menelvagor Valar (6:56:18 PM): and as usual, my question is a quadruple one... or close to it ^^
Menelvagor Valar (6:57:57 PM): Who was Tuor's travelling companion to Gondolin, what was his occupation, (bonus for extra info on this part), how did he arrive at Tuor (bonus for precisely how, the bonus is UT)... and uhm... I guess that's enough for now :-P
Galdor (6:58:11 PM): Veronwe he was sailing from Cirdan
karakedi25 (6:58:18 PM): Voronwe, a seaman...
VardaValar1 (6:58:27 PM): Voronwe, sailor, shipwrecked
Galdor (6:58:39 PM): He was washed upon the shore leess than an hour before Tuor found him
karakedi25 (6:58:41 PM): they met at the shore when Voronwe was shipwrecked
Menelvagor Valar (6:58:43 PM): that's 3/3 without bonus :-)
karakedi25 (6:59:05 PM): I believe he was on the last ship to be sent West to seek aid from the Valar
Menelvagor Valar (6:59:17 PM): bonus no. 1 for Indis :-)
karakedi25 (6:59:17 PM): Ulmo saved him to meet with Tuor
VardaValar1 (6:59:19 PM): A storm destroyed that ship
Menelvagor Valar (6:59:34 PM): bonus 2 for half to Indis as well ^^
VardaValar1 (6:59:37 PM): yay Indis :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:00:40 PM): If I recall UT correctly, to Voronwë it seemed that as Mount Taras came into view, the greatest part of the storm wrecked the ship, but a great wave bore him up and "deposited" him on the beach near Vinyamar.
Menelvagor Valar (7:01:29 PM): But, as the question was, Varda got it with the 3/3 first :-)
Galdor (7:01:38 PM): And shortly after Tuor and he met, they left and the water rose up to there there were just standing...
Menelvagor Valar (7:01:39 PM): of course, kudos for Indis for getting both bonuses :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:01:54 PM): Ulmo had already departed.
Menelvagor Valar (7:02:49 PM): Voronwë agreed to lead Tuor to the hidden gate of Gondolin because he was arrayed in the livery which Turgon had left in Vinyamar at the bidding of Ulmo, and, if I recall correctly, at which Voronwë was present.
VardaValar1 (7:03:04 PM): It was the sign.
Menelvagor Valar (7:03:11 PM): Aye.
Menelvagor Valar (7:03:51 PM): And with that, I would give the floor to Varda for her question :-D
Galdor (7:03:59 PM): Ilmo told Tuor to speak and his words would be chosen by Ulmo, or somehting like that...with the help of that nice cloak, he got a lot done in that short period of time. I liked that story a lot.
VardaValar1 (7:04:01 PM): Thank you, Menel. :-)
VardaValar1 (7:04:14 PM): It was a good one, aye! : )

VardaValar1 (7:04:30 PM): What is another name for the Window of the West, and what were Frodo and Sam given there?
Menelvagor Valar (7:04:42 PM): argh...
Galdor (7:04:46 PM): A ride.
karakedi25 (7:04:46 PM): Henneth Annun
Menelvagor Valar (7:04:51 PM): it was the hidden hideout of Faramir.
Menelvagor Valar (7:04:55 PM): that one aye :-)
karakedi25 (7:05:03 PM): supplies for their journey and good advice
VardaValar1 (7:05:07 PM): Aye, that is the name.
VardaValar1 (7:05:19 PM): and that's what it was.
VardaValar1 (7:05:38 PM): True on supplies. Any guess as to what specific supplies for a bonus?
Menelvagor Valar (7:05:45 PM): and a free pass to travel the lands of Gondor until they would come to Minas Tirith and ask permission of the Lord.
karakedi25 (7:05:46 PM): food
Galdor (7:05:50 PM): Preserved meats?
karakedi25 (7:05:50 PM): ah right
VardaValar1 (7:05:52 PM): (always advice, lol)
Menelvagor Valar (7:06:07 PM): or under the premise that one day they would come to Gondor and ask proper permission.
VardaValar1 (7:06:16 PM): Get ouf of jail free card?
VardaValar1 (7:06:48 PM): *out
Menelvagor Valar (7:07:35 PM): As I recall, and I am not sure of the exact words, Faramir allowed Frodo and Sam to pass through Ithilien, which were officially still a part of Gondor, as the son of Denethor until they would come to Minas Tirith, or Denethor would rescind the pass given.
Menelvagor Valar (7:08:03 PM): were = was.
VardaValar1 (7:08:27 PM): I''d say you folks got it. Specifically trail rations, walking sticks made of lebethron. Figured the LotRO players would get a kick out of that last. : )
Menelvagor Valar (7:09:13 PM): I would say, but that's personal, that the free pass would be the greater gift, considering that Faramir knew what Frodo was carrying and its possible worth to Gondor.
VardaValar1 (7:09:23 PM): No argument.
karakedi25 (7:09:28 PM): And how his father would react
Menelvagor Valar (7:09:38 PM): Aye.
VardaValar1 (7:09:57 PM): With that, our Tolkien trivia is officially at a close. It can be continued in After-meeting if anyone is still conscious. :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:10:00 PM): Good thing that Faramir had a fairer heart than Denethor's.

VardaValar1 (7:10:03 PM): After-meeting!
Menelvagor Valar (7:10:11 PM): continue! :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:10:19 PM): we still ahve enough people here :-)
AriehnV (7:10:19 PM): A chance for the Captain of Gondor to prove himself
VardaValar1 (7:10:31 PM): Aye, both saw into the hearts of men, but Faramir's was moved rather to pity than to taking advantage.
VardaValar1 (7:10:48 PM): afk for a bit
Menelvagor Valar (7:11:10 PM): and Denethor was more kindly before his heart was influenced by Sauron's visions through the Palantir.
Menelvagor Valar (7:11:46 PM): Arien, if you wish to continue, your question ^^
AriehnV (7:12:19 PM): a small boon not directily linked to your question or this incidence .. it was rather connected tho with Denethors reaction or possible reaction that the king might return
AriehnV (7:12:48 PM): it was something that fell in my eye when i was researching for my article and had to clear up something for me first
AriehnV (7:13:04 PM): want to know ? :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:13:26 PM): sure :-)
AriehnV (7:13:59 PM): it was not the first time that one of the Northern Dunedain claimed the throne of Gondor
AriehnV (7:15:03 PM): it was after the plague when the king and his two sons died during that
AriehnV (7:15:12 PM): and he had no children left
AriehnV (7:15:49 PM): but the Ruler of the Arnoriens had been married to the youngest daughter and only child
AriehnV (7:16:03 PM): and on that base he claimed the throne in Gondor
karakedi25 (7:16:16 PM): that was the source of the Kin-wars, as I remember
AriehnV (7:16:52 PM): it was long after what we usually refer to as kinstrife in gondor and that confuse d me hehe
Eonwe Valar (7:16:55 PM): The Kinstrife was because one of the royal line married a daughter one of the northern peoples.
AriehnV (7:16:56 PM): anyway
karakedi25 (7:17:17 PM): yes, that's what I was thinking of
Menelvagor Valar (7:17:25 PM): dagnabbit... I just thought of another one of my multi-question questions :-)
AriehnV (7:17:36 PM): the Stuar .. an ancestor of Denethor and i think it was his father  who refused that claim
AriehnV (7:18:24 PM): on the base they wouldnt listen to a down come line one who abandoned Gondor
Eonwe Valar (7:18:24 PM): Steward I assume you mean?
AriehnV (7:18:29 PM): something like that aye
AriehnV (7:18:42 PM): i think it was the father of Mardil
AriehnV (7:19:16 PM): the good stewart  , who ruled in the name of the king after the last king of gondor vanished childless into Mordor
AriehnV (7:19:40 PM): similar argument, similar reaction to Denethor :-)
karakedi25 (7:19:43 PM): That was Hurin, I believe
Menelvagor Valar (7:20:49 PM): If you'd like, I have one question for after-meeting trivia I am burning to ask :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:21:52 PM): <--- impatient ^^ :-P
Menelvagor Valar (7:22:58 PM): sorry to stomp on you so Arien :-(
AriehnV (7:23:10 PM): Arvedui last king of Arnor was said king and the king in gondor who died was Ondoher and his two sons (grandson of Edalcar who had the kinstrife on him)
karakedi25 (7:24:11 PM): I was wondering if it was Arvedui
AriehnV (7:24:12 PM): right go on Menel :-) _
Menelvagor Valar (7:24:30 PM): Ok, it's a bit of a long one :-)

Menelvagor Valar (7:26:36 PM): Who were the ones considered half-elven (so discounting those who were born of a half-elven / elven marriage, and also discounting the appendices, so born out of marriage between elf and man), and who were the men whose fate was separated from orther men? Bonus if you can tell why. Hint, there's 4 and 2.
Menelvagor Valar (7:27:02 PM): Also, it's mostly a follow-up on my previous question ^^
Menelvagor Valar (7:28:00 PM): (oh yes, and 2 of them are not exactly born out of man / elf marriage, but more out of half-elven / 3/4-elven marriage :-P )
Menelvagor Valar (7:29:22 PM): extra bonus even if can find more than 2 on the second part :-P
AriehnV (7:29:48 PM): The first two must be Elrond and Elros
Menelvagor Valar (7:30:03 PM): that's 2 out of 4, aye :-)
Eonwe Valar (7:30:25 PM): Elwing and Earendil are the other two.
Galdor (7:30:33 PM): Aragorns son and daughter might be the other two?
Menelvagor Valar (7:30:43 PM): Earendil is correct, Elwing is not.
Menelvagor Valar (7:31:01 PM): I have discounted those in the question Galdor ^^
Galdor (7:31:08 PM): Sorry
Menelvagor Valar (7:31:15 PM): and that's because I can't remember the name(s).
Menelvagor Valar (7:31:53 PM): Elwing's father is the half-elf originally.
Menelvagor Valar (7:32:02 PM): Díor.
Menelvagor Valar (7:32:08 PM): born of Beren and Luthien.
Eonwe Valar (7:32:15 PM): Dior was 1/4 Elf.
Galdor (7:32:29 PM): There were 3 such marriages, Beren/Luthien,. Aragorn/Arwen...The last one is throwing me off...Turin/Melandel? I read it over the summer and i can't recall.
Menelvagor Valar (7:32:31 PM): yeah, and a quarter Maia :-P
Eonwe Valar (7:32:32 PM): Luthien was Half-Elf, Half Maia.
Menelvagor Valar (7:32:45 PM): Tuor / Idril Celebrindal.
Menelvagor Valar (7:33:18 PM): But Earendil was always considered among men, until he sailed to Vailnor, and Dior was always considered elven.
AriehnV (7:33:33 PM): welll folks my head 's just swimming with names and i a getting quite sleepy :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:33:47 PM): Ok, here's the second part then :-)
Eonwe Valar (7:33:47 PM): Other than Tuor, I don't believe anyone else bearing pure Mannish blood had a fate separate from humanity.
Galdor (7:34:06 PM): I'm heading to play the game for a bit. Thank you all for the stimulating text-conversation.
Menelvagor Valar (7:34:07 PM): pretty much correct.
Menelvagor Valar (7:34:25 PM): however, there's a couple that could be considered their fate to be apart.
AriehnV (7:34:36 PM): Namarie : all :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:34:39 PM): for the fate of man was to dwell in the halls of Mandos for a time and then pass on.
Eonwe Valar (7:34:41 PM): Sleep well Arien.
Menelvagor Valar (7:34:42 PM): Namarie Arien.
Galdor (7:34:43 PM): Namarie
galdorandwe has left the room. 7:34 pm
Eonwe Valar (7:35:08 PM): And take care Galdor, belatedly.
Menelvagor Valar (7:35:09 PM): Beren's fate was slightly apart, for he was allowed to dwell for a short time in Beleriand again after his death.
Menelvagor Valar (7:35:42 PM): Earendil, who was considered to be among men, was allowed to sail the heavens in Vingilot, his ship, as the bearer of the last Silmaril.
Eonwe Valar (7:35:45 PM): Beren's ultimate fate was that of humanity, any reprieve he received notwithstanding.
AriehnV has left the room. 7:35 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:35:56 PM): true.
Eonwe Valar (7:36:22 PM): I'd need a source on that, Menel. Earendil's preference leaned to Men, but I don't recall anything that specifcially said he was lumped with men any more than Dior would've been.
Menelvagor Valar (7:36:30 PM): Turin the same thing really, except that he dwells in Mandos until Dagor Dagorlad where it is rumored that he will fight against Morgoth.
Eonwe Valar (7:37:07 PM): That part of Turin's fate is mostly related to earlier tales.
Menelvagor Valar (7:37:14 PM): true, however, my guess comes from the fact that Earendil and Elwing's marriage led to Elrond and Elros.
Menelvagor Valar (7:37:23 PM): and those were definitely half-elven.
Menelvagor Valar (7:38:06 PM): and considering that Elwing was most definitely considered elven, that would mean, and I admit that it is inferred, is that Earendil was considered to be of men more than of elven.
Eonwe Valar (7:38:06 PM): Well, Earendil was truly Half-Elven. Elwing's Elf blood would've tipped the scale over the half mark.
Menelvagor Valar (7:38:27 PM): yeah ^^
Menelvagor Valar (7:38:49 PM): so, in what way was Tuor's fate different from men?
Eonwe Valar (7:39:11 PM): He's the only member of Mankind to be counted among the Eldar.
Menelvagor Valar (7:39:21 PM): Aye :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:40:16 PM): to quote:
Menelvagor Valar (7:40:57 PM): In those days Tuor felt old age creep upon him, and ever a longing for the deeps of the sea grew stronger in his heart.
Menelvagor Valar (7:41:49 PM): Therefore he built a great ship, and he named it EärrámE, which is Sea-Wing; and with Idril Celebrindal he set sail into the sunset and the West, and came no more into any tale or song.
VardaValar1 (7:42:08 PM): Earendil let Elwing choose whether to go with the fate of Elf or Man.
Menelvagor Valar (7:42:48 PM): But in after days it was sung that Tuor alone of Mortal Men was numbered among the elder race, and was joined with the Noldor, whom he loved; and his fate is sundered from the fate of Men.
Menelvagor Valar has left the room. 7:50 pm
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room. 7:51 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:51:24 PM): Pardon, my cat exited my window :-P