You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: brb :-)
karakedi25 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya all.
fladrifv: hey all
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar, Eonwe, Flad, and Indis :-)
VardaValar1: That's all the invitations that I can see.
VardaValar1: Hi there, ent. :-)
Joldahks has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Ancalagon! :-)
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership News:
is back. : )
Joldahks: woohoo i love that guy!
VardaValar1: Any other news?
may be home tomorrow night. Been nearly two weeks out working so he'll be more than ready to come home. :-)
VardaValar1: Ok, you are all going to tell your Membership news in some other section, can see it coming. ;-)
VardaValar1: The Tolkien Site has a new article
VardaValar1: New webcomics
have been added to the Links page, near the bottom of that page.
VardaValar1: Much time may be blown there. : )
VardaValar1: Feel free to email your favorites to be included or mention them to me for inclusion (with an url).
VardaValar1: Non-WoW and non-LotRO:
VardaValar1: Fladrif, go ahead. : )
fladrifv: thank you
fladrifv: while wandering around in SL
VardaValar1: (Second Life to those reading the transcript)
fladrifv: I found a way to root myself into the earth
fladrifv: and become entish
fladrifv: there are even more then one type
VardaValar1: He means become an actual ent!
fladrifv: or a dryad that can transform into an ent
fladrifv: eh tree sorry
ArPharazonV: Oh, Aiya, sorry, missed time, apparently aim sound disabled
fladrifv: Aiya Arphar
VardaValar1: I've seen some amazing shape-changing, looked as if they
folded and stretched their own avatars. How does one learn that?
ArPharazonV: good thing I was here earlier... anyway, still raiding,
will come back to you in about half an hour, got no news except pc
trouble (which I just told Fladrif on msn)
VardaValar1: Welcome back. : )
fladrifv: oh its quite easy
VardaValar1: I could go to your place and literally veg out. ;-)
fladrifv: the thing they do is bent the avatar shape with a shape mod and add aditional prims to the body
fladrifv: to make it look like bark and leaves
VardaValar1: I've seen them do dragons.
VardaValar1: This is a mod from outside the game?
fladrifv: no its all build in game
fladrifv: its not a mod its just normal building that everyone can do
VardaValar1: ok, so there's some way to stretch the body and fold it and so on.
fladrifv: ive been from mouse size
fladrifv: all the way up to a dragon
fladrifv: sorry for my enthusiasm :-)
fladrifv: leaves the stage
VardaValar1: I love enthusiasm about anything.
VardaValar1: Must be hard on a treeish ent though.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you had news on Diablo?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Diablo 2
Eonwe Valar: The 1.13 patch will be coming March 23rd, for those who might be enthusiastic about that :}
Eonwe Valar: And of course, a ladder reset for realm chars goes with that.
Eonwe Valar: There's supposed to be alot of stuff happening with 1.13.
VardaValar1: An actual patch to the old D2? Thought they forgot that game entirely! Very good.
Eonwe Valar: I can't seem to find any patch notes right now, but we'll have them soon enough.
Eonwe Valar: 2 more days, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: Thats all I have for D2.
VardaValar1: Thank you, good to know they are remembering the old games.
VardaValar1: Does this affect the D2Expansion also?
Eonwe Valar: Of course :}
Eonwe Valar: They wouldn't patch *only* the original game.
VardaValar1: Making sure. :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Any other gaming non-WoW and non-LotRO?
VardaValar1: Ok, then. On to WoW : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you had some general WoW
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: We have an official announcement on the pre-Cataclysm
event, though it's been suspected for some time.
Eonwe Valar: The Alliance will be retaking Gnomeregan (much of it at
least) for the Gnomes and the Horde will be retaking the Echo Isles for
Eonwe Valar: *for the Trolls.
Eonwe Valar: For the Gnomes, see: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/3p9/gnomeregan.xml
Eonwe Valar: For the Trolls, see: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/3p9/echoisles.xml
VardaValar1: For Gnomeregan!
Eonwe Valar: That's it from me.
Eonwe Valar: I'll let you all read the rest :}
ArPharazonV: I love how they put game-mechanics into that lore.
VardaValar1: Thank you. : )
VardaValar1: Any other WoW news?
Eonwe Valar: I would think Mekkatorque would've put 2 and 2 together
the moment his trophy shelf had two Thermaplugg heads on it :}
VardaValar1: I know Arwen, Elwing, Eonwe, Bilbo, Sauron, Eowyn, and Varda have shown up in Lothar server
VardaValar1: hehehe - a clue, aye!
VardaValar1: I ran around a bit as Horde on the Uldaman server
, so it's not deserted now. ;-)
VardaValar1: Who all made it to Argent Dawn server
VardaValar1: Pharazon and Arien we presume. : )
VardaValar1: On to LotRO
ArPharazonV: Yeah. And I'm logging out now, so will be there soon.
VardaValar1: Bullroarer Took day
was a recent event.
karakedi25: A St. Patrick's Day substitute, as there would be no St. Patrick or Ireland in Middle Earth
VardaValar1: On March 17 players could take screenshots and enter them into a contest for it.
VardaValar1: Aye, thanks. : )
VardaValar1: We also have an upcoming Spring Festival
ArPharazonV: let me guess, Indis.. the theme color was green?
karakedi25: frankly I don't know, as I didn't participate, but the player lottery included a patch of clover as a prize
VardaValar1: Here's the Bullroarer contest link:
VardaValar1: The clover can be put in the yard of your house. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, am I still here?
karakedi25: dunno--are you?
karakedi25: attendance in LotRO: the usual bunch
Eonwe Valar: The channel went quiet, so I was concerned AIM dropped me.
karakedi25: Pippin took a short leave of absence to play
Oblivion, but he's back now
VardaValar1 has left the room.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: ooh, Oblivion
VardaValar1: Aiya. Tried to open one too many windows. Froze.
ArPharazonV: allright, saved this part of the transcript just in case I crash too, so it should be safe
karakedi25: For myself, I brought another character to level cap--now have 5 and a captain on her way.
VardaValar1: That's a lot of gaming!
karakedi25: *blushes, thinking of the other things she could have been doing*
VardaValar1: Indis is a very impressive LotRO Lady. :-)
karakedi25: *blushes again*
ArPharazonV: oh, we got Rotface tonight on 25-man WoW
Icecrown Citadel \o/ I took my shot and bid a fortune of killing points
on a new tanking necklace which he dropped, and which I made mine at
great cost in dkp, but it was so worth it
VardaValar1: grats :-)
ArPharazonV: thanks :)
VardaValar1: We have been seeing things in LotRO
saying 65-70 required, so Indis may have to do a lot more leveling again. : )
karakedi25: I hope not any time soon.
karakedi25: After leveling to cap, there's still a lot of filling out with deeds and gear etc., as Varda can attest.
VardaValar1: The Melkorrim did their Sunday morning run today.
VardaValar1: We've been running groups in Urugarth and Garth Agarwaen,
especially for helping Gildor and Nimrodel since they are not capped
yet, helping their mains on up.
karakedi25: That's been a lot of fun. (Those are towns under control of the baddies, in Angmar)
VardaValar1: Indis and some of us others have been running with friends and pugs.
VardaValar1: We try to invite each other into the slots. Sometimes we nearly take over a group. : )
ArPharazonV: sounds fun :)
karakedi25: we're getting better and better at grouping together
VardaValar1: In the last seven days, players were Amroth, Ancalagon,
Angrod, Indsi, Faramir, Varda, Pippin, Nimrodel, Gildor, Nellas,
VardaValar1: Landroval, Rosie, Orome, Fundin, Lindir, Eomer, Eonwe, Gwindor, and Tulkas.
VardaValar1: Thanks - one I didn't have to type. ;-)
karakedi25: my son, after all ;)
VardaValar1: Some of us did the three man Sword Halls I believe? Indis, Lindir and Gorlim?
karakedi25: Phar, LotRO is a lot of fun, plus Middle Earth and Tolkien.
VardaValar1: (Needs more slots)
karakedi25: Yes, that bunch and maybe Eomer as well.
karakedi25: slots for what? more characters?
VardaValar1: for SH. I want to run it too. Two more pieces to get. : )
VardaValar1: Sorry, digressing.
VardaValar1: Believe that's it for LotRO.
VardaValar1: Did you have more to mention?
karakedi25: no, I think that's enough
VardaValar1: Anyone have any other comments before changing to Tolkien?
VardaValar1: On our News page is a letter from OneRing.net
VardaValar1: They hosted Ted Nasmith
at 2pm EST for a chat.
VardaValar1: I forgot but at least posted so others may have made it in.
VardaValar1: Did anyone make it in for that chat?
karakedi25: I heard the last few minutes, but at that point he was talking about an exhibition.
VardaValar1: Glad we had someone to represent us. : )
karakedi25: and then it turned to One-Ring matters for which I had not context
VardaValar1: Did they mention the problems with their art site? Any fix coming?
karakedi25: I didn't hear any
VardaValar1: I'll check on it another time. : )
VardaValar1: Thank you for showing up!
karakedi25: but I wasn't listening for it
VardaValar1: Does anyone have a Tolkien topic?
VardaValar1: If not, I was considering dragons. Would anyone count fell beasts
in their number or keep them as a separate creature?
VardaValar1: There are flying dragons, ground-bound dragons, cold drakes.
ArPharazonV: while bearing a resemblance, I'm not sure they were
originally bred as dragons; they seemed more to be rather a mockery of
Eagles than actual dragons, which started without wings
Eonwe Valar: I got the impressive they should be considered a different creature.
Eonwe Valar: *impressive = impression.
karakedi25: I suppose they're all of worm/drake kind
ArPharazonV: but there might be dragonblood in them, so to speak
VardaValar1: I've been putting them as a separate creature and got to wondering about that.
ArPharazonV: Dragons seem more intelligent and independent, even from
the first days. They've also never taken riders as far as I know.
karakedi25: at least all reptiles
ArPharazonV: Felbeasts, on the other hand, were bred to be mounted, I got the impression.
VardaValar1: The fell beasts were bred for a very different purpose, as mounts for the Nazgul.
VardaValar1: The dragons were very intelligent, capable of doing immense battle damage.
VardaValar1: So the concensus is fell beasts are separate from dragons. Thanks!
ArPharazonV: One of them got its head chopped off in one blow at Pelennor, I think. I don't see Turin doing that to Glaurung.
VardaValar1: At one time, Glaurung was going to be a form of Sauron
, but that was changed by the time the story got going.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: That may have made him a greater dragon than he might have been written otherwise, however.
VardaValar1: Aiya Sunshine. : )
ArPharazonV: They seemed weaker, more dependent, bred for servile duties instead of local battle commanders and head-on damage.
ArPharazonV: And yeah, he started out as a sorcerer, right?
VardaValar1: Tevildo, Prince of Cats. : )
VardaValar1: JRRT was not fond of cats. : )
ArPharazonV: True, that was the earlier form of Sauron.
karakedi25: didn't make it into full Canon though
ArPharazonV: But I remember the earliest version of Turin in Book of Lost Tales
having a sorcerer instead of a dragon, though that seemed to be seperate from Tevildo.
VardaValar1: True, it didn't.
VardaValar1: You might need to look that up for us.
ArPharazonV: I'll go take a looky.
VardaValar1: The forms that Sauron took did get varied. :-)
VardaValar1: When he heard Huan was outside, he remembered the prophecy
of how Huan would be killed and made himself into the greatest werewolf
VardaValar1: Didn't work. : )
VardaValar1: He took a fair form to talk the elves into what he wanted them to do, as Annatar.
VardaValar1: But when he rebuilt after Numenor, he ran out of a lot of his shape-building steam.
karakedi25: a question:
VardaValar1: He couldn't assume a fair form again.
VardaValar1: Fire away.
karakedi25: do you think the form he took as Annatar was the same as the one he took for Numenor?
ArPharazonV: ahh, the evil magician Kurúki...
karakedi25: as far as I know, nothing's said about that
ArPharazonV: I think so, yes. He did show up in a somewhat fair form in
Numenor, or otherwise he probably wouldn't have done well as an advisor.
ArPharazonV: And when his body perished in the Fall, it was said he lost that fair form.
VardaValar1: He was working with humans, so I wonder if he might have dropped the pointed ears at least.
ArPharazonV: before returning to Middle-earth as a shadow
ArPharazonV: hmm, perhaps he did adapt his form, yes, but I don't think he would've had to adapt it much
karakedi25: that makes sense to me,Varda, especially as he was working with anti-elf humans
ArPharazonV: did he have pointed ears as Annatar?
VardaValar1: I would think Annatar probably had an elf form to gain the fairest appearance, and to work with the elven-smiths.
Eonwe Valar: I think Sauron could walk in there as a talking pink oliphaunt and people would still take him seriously.
karakedi25: there's no mention that he was shaped like a Man
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you're right. :-) But he understood the power of image.
ArPharazonV: "Yeah, I may look like a pink elephant, but I know how to make Rings!"
VardaValar1: Aye, there is no such mention, Indis.
karakedi25: and he would be less suspicious in elf form
ArPharazonV: So perhaps he took on a bit more humanized version of his form. Whatever the case, he lost both forms in the Fall.
Eonwe Valar: In other words, I don't think he would've needed to alter
his Annatar form one bit. The fact that for a long time he acted
subservient to Pharazon would've stroked the egos of anyone concerned
that he looked like an Elf.
VardaValar1: That's true.
ArPharazonV: I have here in the Book of Lost Tales
an outline of one of the earliest versions of Turin, if not the earliest, that is still in written form.
Eonwe Valar: Also, the people of Numenor would know he's *not* an Elf,
but a Maia, stroking the egos of those who thought they could defy the
VardaValar1: In Pharazon's Numenor they hit a point of really disliking elves.
VardaValar1: Aye, it would be proof that they might win.
ArPharazonV: It already mentions the dragon as Turin's enemy (which he
seeks to kill) but there's also an evil magician involved (Kuruki
) who removes Nienor's memory.
ArPharazonV: the dragon still lifts that veil at his death, though
ArPharazonV: There's also no correlation whatsoever between the
magician Kuruki and Tevildo, Sauron's earlier form. Not that I'd expect
any between a cat and an apparently humanoid mage, whatever the cat
would become later.
karakedi25: I suspect that Tolkien dropped the cat idea altogether
ArPharazonV: Yes, but that was apparently after abandoning Kuruki already.
VardaValar1: Aye the cat was dropped eventually.
ArPharazonV: Kuruki is just described as an evil magician that Morwen
and Nienor (or their old versions) fall in with, and he gives them a
"baneful drink", which meakes them "forget their names".
ArPharazonV: Nienor is lost, meets up with Turin as she looks for her
mother, and they're married. Later Turin slays the dragon that's been
ravaging his lands, and the dragon lifts the "veil Kuruki has set over
ArPharazonV: meakes = makes, btw
ArPharazonV: there doesn't seem to be any other information about Kuruki in this piece, or anywhere else.
ArPharazonV: But I see no reason to correlate him with a form of Sauron, who was at this point still feline.
ArPharazonV: allright, so in any case, even in this earlier version the dragon already seems present though in a smaller role
ArPharazonV: the "Faoloke"
ArPharazonV: with an accent here and there
ArPharazonV: anyway... where were we? Sauron?
VardaValar1: I was just looking up Annatar Sauron
VardaValar1: and aye, he was apparently still Annatar when he was in Numenor.
VardaValar1: To men he was a king and god
ArPharazonV: no reason for him not to trim his ears a bit though, he
seemed to put a lot in subtle trust from those he sought to convince,
and surely not appearing as an elf would've helped
VardaValar1: he wasn't always in the fair form by then it seems.
VardaValar1: "A mask he still could wear so that if he wished he might deceive the eyes of Men, seeming to them wise and fair."
VardaValar1: at this time though he is using mostly force and fear.
ArPharazonV: I suppose he would still use the fair form when acting as
an advisor, though. Pharazon didn't take well to force and fear.
VardaValar1: This was after he had done the fun with rings and then
regathered them. He was no longer needing the Annatar form as much.
VardaValar1: "...they feared him exceedingly, for he surrounded his abode with fire.
ArPharazonV: not for the Elves, anyway, no... this was after he'd
already made the One Ring, waged war on the Elves, and laid waste to
VardaValar1: At the time he was in Numenor he could indeed have been
using his Annatar form. I was checking to see if that was the case.
karakedi25: just out of curiosity, how would the Numenoreans know he was a Maia?
Is there some record of his telling them?
Eonwe Valar: The Elves :}
karakedi25: which elves? the King's Men didn't talk to elves
Eonwe Valar: Once the Elves knew Annatar was Sauron, the cat was out of the bag, no pun intended :}
VardaValar1: The Elves knew and were friends with the Numenoreans for a long time.
ArPharazonV: True. The Numenoreans helped against Sauron when he
attacked Eriador, about a thousand years earlier. They were still
friends then, and the Elves probably said "Yeah, that guy who lives in
Mordor? He's a Maia allright."
karakedi25: that makes sense
VardaValar1: On forms of Sauron, after the destruction of Numenor:
ArPharazonV: of course, the knowledge may have been lost or disbelieved when the dislike of the Elves grew
Eonwe Valar: Aye, and they would know Sauron from when he sued for
pardon from Eonwë at the end of the First Age, if they didn't
already know him from all the attrocities he commited as a servant of
ArPharazonV: but there might have been something back in the heads of
the loremasters, when Pharazon moved against Sauron, that said "Yeah..
just so you know, he might not be mortal."
Eonwe Valar: Aye to Phar's first comment.
VardaValar1: "Then Sauron was for
that time vanquished, and he forsook his body, and his spirit fled far
away and hid in waste places; and he took no visible shape again for
ArPharazonV: heck, knowing the Numenoreans, they might've thought he was an elf
VardaValar1: In the Letters
, JRRT says Sauron was able to take the Ring with him even then.
karakedi25: when Ar-Pharazon defeated Sauron in Middle Earth (or
intimidated him into surrender), whom did they think they had been
ArPharazonV: Oh, I was under the impression that he'd left the ring in
Mordor... and that was why he could return so easily without losing it
in the Fall.
ArPharazonV: As I understand it, there wasn't actually that much fighting in the march to Mordor. All of Sauron's servants fled.
VardaValar1: Aye, not much fighting against the overpowering Numenorean fleet. Lot of running.
ArPharazonV: But with the current dislike for Elves, the Numenoreans
might easily accept the idea of some more powerful-than-regular elf
building up a dark army to make a kingdom in Middle-Earth.
Eonwe Valar: I think they knew whom they were fighting. The fact he
commanded Orcs and Nazgul would've been a clue he was a run-of-the-mill
karakedi25: but there was the intention of fighting until the sight of the Numenorean forces intimidated him and his armies
VardaValar1: This is Silmarillion
, "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" that the quotes are from.
Eonwe Valar: Here we go...
ArPharazonV: anyway, I think the Numenoreans knew full well that Sauron
wasn't human. They'd gotten rumors if not historical stories of him
from the first Ring-war onwards, and even during his stay in Numenor he
would not have aged.
Eonwe Valar: "The mightiest and
proudest was Ar-Pharazon the Golden of all those that had wielded the
Sceptre of the Sea-Kings since the foundation of Numenor...
ArPharazonV: not even Elros made it that far
VardaValar1: The next rise of Sauron was in Mirkwood at Dol Guldur
VardaValar1: "...slowly he grew and took shape there again...
Eonwe Valar: And sitting upon his
carven throne... in the glory of his power, he brooded darkly, thinking
of war. For he had learned in Middle-Earth of the strength of the realm
of Sauron, and of his hatred of Westernesse....and they reported that
Sauron was putting forth his might, since Ar-Pharazon had gone back
from Middle-Earth, and he was pressing down upon the cities by the
Eonwe Valar: and he had taken now the
title of King of Men, and declared his purpose to drive the Numenoreans
in to the sea, and destroy even Numenor, if that might be.
ArPharazonV: don't forget his brief reign for 100 years during which he attacked Arnor and Gondor, Varda
Eonwe Valar: Great was the anger of
Ar-Pharazon at these tidings, and as he pondered long in secret, his
heart was filled with the desire of power unbounded and the sol
dominion of his will
VardaValar1: I didn't. But looking for solid shapes.
Eonwe Valar: And he determined without counsel of the Valar
(empahsed mine), or the aid of any wisdom but his own, that the title
of King of Men he would himself claim, and would compel Sauron to
become his vassal and his servant; for in his pride he deemed that no
king should ever arise so mighty as to vie with the Heir of Earendil.
Eonwe Valar: *empahsed = emphasis
ArPharazonV: that's me, folks
Eonwe Valar: If he thought Sauron were a Man, that line would not be
needed. Were Sauron thought to be an Elf, likewise, as Pharazon and the
King's Men would assume the Valar were behind the Elf.
ArPharazonV: I thought that line pointed to him naming himself King of Men.
VardaValar1: hehe Phar
VardaValar1: (laughing at the flex)
VardaValar1: Ar-Pharazon sure didn't like Sauron claiming the title of King of Men.
Eonwe Valar: You could be right, but it seems to me it goes with both
that and compelling Sauron to become his servant. The last part
beginning at "for in his pride" also seems to show he thinks the Valar
should serve him as well though.
VardaValar1: He didn't go for the counsel of the Valar in his action.
Eonwe Valar: He wasn't crazy enough to try and make Manë submit to him just yet though :}
Eonwe Valar: *Manwë
VardaValar1: He needed the push from Sauron for that. : )
ArPharazonV: But yeah, you seem to be right, Eonwe. It does seem to
point at the compelling as well, which would not be necessary if Sauron
was just a simple Man.
Eonwe Valar: Pharazon was smart enough not to be immediately deceived
by Sauron, but then he went and decided to bring Sauron to Numenor as a
Eonwe Valar: Took less than 3 years to go from Prisoner to Advisor.
ArPharazonV: Told him what he wanted to hear, and in subtle ways. Hard to find that as a king.
Eonwe Valar: "Sauron with many arguments gainsaid all that the Valar had taught;
Eonwe Valar: No point in doing that if the general populace had already
rejected the Valar's teachings, whatever they thought of the Valar
VardaValar1: Being told you're right has a strong force on an ego, and Ar-Pharazon had a ton of ego.
ArPharazonV: They didn't like the Valar, but still feared them because of the teachings. Sauron took away that fear.
Eonwe Valar: True, Varda, and aye, Phar.
ArPharazonV: Sauron took them from living as servants, limited by the
Valar and fearing them, to the "good" guys, losing that fear, seeing
through their "fraud" and giving them the position of doing what's
ArPharazonV: That would've been a good point to make on any of the
Numenoreans (or the King's Men, anyway), and even moreso on their king.
ArPharazonV: and even so, it took him a good while to fully bring that
point home to Pharazon, who needed to be quite aged before his fear of
death outgrew his fear of the Valar, enough to make his move against
Eonwe Valar: It's ironic that they worshipped Melkor as the lord of the
Dark, and yet they were afraid to die and go into that Dark.
ArPharazonV: and yet sacrificed their own people to the Dark, sending them into it
Eonwe Valar: Mostly the Faithful.
ArPharazonV: Yes. But still their kin.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, aye, quite an irony.
VardaValar1: Maybe it might be called the Unknown, as not even the
Valar could tell them much about it, and they no longer trusted Eru
whose design it was.
ArPharazonV: Interesting that Pharazon still had doubts at the end. He
may have feared death, or the Dark, more than the Valar, but were it
for himself or for his people, he still feared the Valar in the end,
and hesitated at the point of invasion.
Eonwe Valar: But back to the larger point, I think if for some odd
reason they didn't know Sauron was a Maia before, it would've only
enhanced his position to make it known now.
Eonwe Valar: "Now" being once Pharazon had turned back to Melkor worship.
VardaValar1: The Valar sent warnings including lightnings and earthquakes.
ArPharazonV: Aye, Eonwe. It would definitely put him closer to Melkor,
the God he was trying to convince the Numenoreans into believing.
ArPharazonV: And I meant after that, Varda, when he was actually at Valinor.
ArPharazonV: But yeah, if the Numenoreans already believed in Melkor,
showing that you're a Maia and one of his closest servants would
definitely help seal your own position.
VardaValar1: Melkor was coming in handy for Sauron even doing nothing. :-)
ArPharazonV: Quite :)
VardaValar1: Moving on to the RP
, we've had some posts.
VardaValar1: Some major posts. : )
ArPharazonV: Yeah, mine was a bit long. I thought I'd take this
opportunity to remove a few uncertainties, set up motivations and
numbers, and maybe some other things we'd only discussed in chat but
not the RP itself.
VardaValar1: O cool. Elatan's been posting to the main forum again. Always good to see he's still with us.
Eonwe Valar: Phar, it might not've been as clear as intended, in the
post I made in the discusion thread, but I was saying the current odds
are "probably" ok, assuming the conditions we have, and perhaps
assuming that we're not trying to wipe them all out.
VardaValar1: Yours is only long because it's more than one character, as if you posted three times.
VardaValar1: Orcs can be frightened off if their leader shows a problem.
ArPharazonV: aye, Eonwe, but there's also still a bunch of spiders
(which might cut loose, however, if the leader's influence fades) and I
wasn't sure if it wasn't just a tad bit too much
Eonwe Valar: The orcs outnumber us 4:1, but we don't know how many spiders, maybe as many.
ArPharazonV: and I still don't remember if I had a sword of my own,
beside the orc sword I gave to Frali... I know we discussed it here at
some point, but I'm not sure anymore
VardaValar1: "a host of spiders
Eonwe Valar: If Calion doesn't, it seems to me he's under-armed :}
Eonwe Valar: for an Elf living in Mirkwood :}
VardaValar1: and as an officer
ArPharazonV: Aye. A host. I figured it'd be quite a bit more than the
Orcs, considering they're weaker and there's probably more of them
ArPharazonV: And yeah, I should have a sword, but all I mentioned in my
very first post seems to have been daggers and a bow, and I've said
he's not very skilled as a sword.
VardaValar1: I especially like Calion's post after Calaron's. Well done. : )
Eonwe Valar: "Host" implies a number a bit big for our company. I could've sworn you said "contingent" though.
ArPharazonV: Nah, I said host.
VardaValar1: A host of spiders crowded the treeline
Eonwe Valar: Which still might not be much better, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: ok.
VardaValar1: copy/pasted it.
ArPharazonV: and even was it just Calaron's post, it still would've
been larger than average... well, not for me in particular, but still
VardaValar1: I like Calion's specially noticing the change in bird sound, as he's exceptional with animals.
VardaValar1: No worries, certainly not too long.
ArPharazonV: It's still raining at this point, right?
Eonwe Valar: It could be.
ArPharazonV: I assume so, since we're counting on it... but that struck
me afterwards, because despite it being eeriely quiet, it was still
soaking, so it looked a bit wrong
VardaValar1: Aye, raining, and giving Calaron problems.
VardaValar1: I would like to make a post.
ArPharazonV: as rain can still make quite a bit of noise
VardaValar1: It could be slowing down, sprinkling.
ArPharazonV: but anyway, I can change the numbers
ArPharazonV: if they're too much
VardaValar1: I would like to post to handle that
Eonwe Valar: Aye, if it's just light rain, birds could be out, what birds would be out in late autumn in Mirkwood, anyway :}
VardaValar1: Fainan would want them to take off at high speed down the road.
VardaValar1: That would string the baddies out.
VardaValar1: Black birds? ;-)
VardaValar1: If Calaron's hold is not as strong as it might be, he may
not be able to send large numbers after them quickly, especially
spiders that are so alien.
ArPharazonV: Oh, yes, that's another thing that loomed up in my mind after reading Auros' post.
ArPharazonV: What's to prevent us from just running as fast as we can,
avoiding this force alltogether and never confronting Calaron?
ArPharazonV: I know Calion would be eager to go after the source of the arrow, but other than that, we need motiation
Eonwe Valar: (un?)fortunately, Frali's pony.
VardaValar1: We can race ahead and he [Calaron] could come quickly behind.
VardaValar1: We could leave behind most of that host of spiders.
Eonwe Valar: We could make some haste, but certainly not the haste we could were we all on horses.
VardaValar1: He just can't control them well enough for this, and they are set for an ambush.
ArPharazonV: True. We might get Orcs thundering through the trees,
Calaron following on wolf or through the trees (he's a trained scout
VardaValar1: Aye, so we cut it to something we can manage and still keep your heart-attack post. : )
ArPharazonV: and even a couple of baddies blocking the path a short way
ahead, I'm sure Calaron would've thought of this (even though I didn't
Eonwe Valar: GOing back to that info I posted a long while back when we
were looking at wolves and wolf-riders, It would possibly be one way to
separate Calaron from the orc-host, if he's foolish enough to follow
his pursuers and outpace his troops.
VardaValar1: They can't be on the path but they can probably zip across it and be on either side.
VardaValar1: Do we have some orc warg-riders or wolf-riders?
Eonwe Valar: Calaron is supposed to be riding a wolf/warg.
VardaValar1: If he has some with him, he might be more willing to go quickly.
ArPharazonV: If they're near the path further ahead to the west, they
could be running up the path trying to block our escape, or even
already entering the path to close in on us from the west.
ArPharazonV: And yeah, Calaron's got a rather large wolf/warg. There might be some orcs with those too.
VardaValar1: I mean do some of the orcs also have wolf mounts?
Eonwe Valar: Ah, pardon.
VardaValar1: They could throw a rope across the path. Elvish sight might spot it but it would slow us and we'd need to cut it.
VardaValar1: A good sword stroke would probably do it, but have to draw and position, slight slowing.
Eonwe Valar: Even if all 2 dozen orcs were wolf-riders, not all of them
could be on their wargs ready to chase our group down, if they were
going to actually try to apprehend Auros/others.
ArPharazonV: plenty of options to hold us back, even if we shake off the spiders long enough to deal with the rest
VardaValar1: That helps put them behind us, while they mount up.
ArPharazonV: aye, Eonwe, but at least half a dozen might be mounted to be sure, anyway
Eonwe Valar: Half a dozen is easier to get through than 2 dozen+ "a host" }:
VardaValar1: If we do the rope across the road bit, who would be the one whose sword cuts it?
ArPharazonV: That is definitely the case. But while they're keeping us busy, the rest will come up from behind it.
ArPharazonV: *behind us
Eonwe Valar: :} even
VardaValar1: Fainan will try to make this a running fight, keeping to the enchantment of the road and its help with speed.
VardaValar1: She can get off a few shots behind them, might slow them a bit whether or not they hit.
ArPharazonV: I wouldn't put it past the enemy (considering cruel old me
is leading them) to put some Orcs on Wolves and have them charging up
the path blocking our escape, the moment we decide to run.
ArPharazonV: And yes, I know I said I'd lost the desire to play bad
guys last week, but I did enjoy setting up this ambush and making some
strategic options ;)
karakedi25: would it be appropriate for Meren to cut the rope?
Eonwe Valar: I don't see why not, if she's the nearest rider to it.
Eonwe Valar: How high is the rope strung? I worry Frali might ride right under it :}
VardaValar1: My post is up.
ArPharazonV: let's say.. 2 feet?
ArPharazonV: enough to trip a horse?
Eonwe Valar: Gonna have to lower it, Phar :} Ok, done giving the Dwarf a hard time :}
VardaValar1: 2 feet would make an easy jump. Needs to be about breast high to the horse.
VardaValar1: Please note something that you might find nice to know about the pony. : )
ArPharazonV: I have no idea how high horses can jump. But if you make
it much higher, you might barely succeed in knocking the helmet of the
dwarf if he doesn't go flatly under it.
karakedi25: I suppose we can count on elvish strength to account for cutting the rope quickly
VardaValar1: and keeness of blade. :-)
karakedi25: I doubt they have the dwarf much in mind
VardaValar1: and it's just rope.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, keeness of the blade, orcish rope. Nothing to see here :}
VardaValar1: Not likely to be elvish rope since orcs have to handle it.
ArPharazonV: Not unless Calaron had some on him, no :)
VardaValar1: But the orcs are the ones who would not like burning their
hands on it. If he insists, we may catch them while they are still
stringing it up. hehe
VardaValar1: Nice double ambush.
Eonwe Valar: Four feet would catch a running Dwarf in the face roughly,
if memory serves. Probably catch him in the chest if he's on a pony,
which means the pont would take it in the neck more than likely. Give
the horses a hard time too, if those holding it are strong enough.
ArPharazonV: four feet works
Eonwe Valar: A question comes to mind: why wouldn't they use a net instead?
ArPharazonV: harder to hold up?
VardaValar1: I was expecting them to toss a rope across and tie the ends to trees ahead of time.
VardaValar1: A net is more visible.
Eonwe Valar: They wouldn't even have to hold the net for it to be effective, just toss it at an opportunate time.
AriehnV: spiders probably would try to web some sort of blockage
and some might attack the group to distract from those who would
weave the real trap
Eonwe Valar: *opportune
VardaValar1: Aye, net tossing may be part of their intended ambush that we are trying to race past.
VardaValar1: The path is enchanted to prevent most of this stuff.
Eonwe Valar: Would be more work to cut through certainly.
VardaValar1: The rope is pushing the boundaries, actually.
VardaValar1: Oh, and Calaron is not the evil here, but a potential problem for the evil trying to control his body. : )
ArPharazonV: Very well. A prepared rope tied to trees might work, but
if it's a straight path, we would already have to see it from where we
VardaValar1: Whether this path is enchanted is being called into question in a side window.
ArPharazonV: I still referred him to Calaron as the person itself, body
and all, since our little possesser doesn't have a name at this point.
Nor do I think he ever will, except that I just called him a lieutenant
of the Northern forces.
VardaValar1: Then maybe we should give our prime villain a name at some
point. If he can't think of his own name, Calaron may have a wedge
VardaValar1: Sort of like the Mouth forgot his name.
Eonwe Valar: The Mouth of Sauron seems to get along just fine :}
Eonwe Valar: Varda beat me to it :}
ArPharazonV: He has one. He just doesn't need to mention it. He's in
control now, and he's got Calaron's body, and the Orcs might name him
when they discuss him, but all *we* can see is Calaron.
VardaValar1: The Mouth is a willing servant.
VardaValar1: The elves sure have a lot vs spiders though.
VardaValar1: Where their fires and feasts are, the spiders don't want to go and the darkness lightens.
VardaValar1: Wonder if we can use that somehow.
ArPharazonV: Honestly, he has a name. We just don't need to know it,
and while it might identify itself in the confrontation with Calaron,
I'm not sure it needs to give its name except to say he's a lieutenant
of Mordor. Or the Orcs of the North. Or Saruman, if that's where the
Ring and staff came from.
Eonwe Valar: About the path mentioned: only thing my Complete guide
says about it is in mention of the Forest Gate, and calls it an
Elf-path. No guarantee that means that it's enchanted, just that Elves
use/made it, and might patrol.it
VardaValar1: It also doesn't mentiion the Forest Path at all.
Eonwe Valar: Odd, that shouldn't be a link. Amusing what a misplaced period will do.
VardaValar1: it must be a special ending. : )
ArPharazonV: what's a link?
Eonwe Valar: I doesn't mention the Forest Path by the name "Forest Path," no.
karakedi25: Perhaps if we know there are a lot of spiders, we can make light, which will also be displeasing to the orcs.
Eonwe Valar: the last two words in my larger text part, ending with the
words "patrol it." Due to a misplaced period, AIM is showing it on my
screen as a link. If it doesn't show as one on yours, all the better :}
Joldahks has left the room.
VardaValar1: oops thought I was in the main room and was in a side window.
ArPharazonV: It doesn't, no. Must still be my 5.9.
VardaValar1: Thorin's Company is warned in all capital letters, Don't leave the path.
VardaValar1: I see it as a link also.
Eonwe Valar: We'd have to stop to build a fire. Are you expecting old
Auros to keep running and draw them away since they're after me while
you all sit down and roast marshmallows? :}
ArPharazonV: and patrol.it would probably be an Italian url ;)
VardaValar1: Stick to the forest track, they are warned.
ArPharazonV: probably because you can get rather lost if you don't
VardaValar1: Warning was from Gandalf
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: If they didn't follow the path, there's no hope they'd make it to the other side.
AriehnV: well the path is hard to make out even in my Atlas of Middlearth
VardaValar1: Aye, would get lost.
VardaValar1: As they go on the path they see webs thick in the trees but none across the path.
ArPharazonV: Well Elves might patrol that to make sure. Even though they missed the dwarves, seemingly.
VardaValar1: "but whether because some magic kept it clear or for what other reason they could not guess."
ArPharazonV: Cobwebs across a path might take a while to do casually.
Running by every 2 weeks might be enough to keep the path free.
VardaValar1: This is one of those ambigous bits JRRT is so fond of.
VardaValar1: They sure don't see anyone on the path.
VardaValar1: Hobbit, "Flies and Spiders' is where I'm at.
ArPharazonV: Well. It might still be magic. Subtle magic. If a bunch of
angry spiders dropped a web there 10 minutes ago, the "magic" might not
have had enough time or force to dispel it so easily.
VardaValar1: "Queer Lodgings' is where they are warned.
VardaValar1: Could be, Phar.
Eonwe Valar: There's a clear spring near the forest-gate.
VardaValar1: Interesting that the elves would have let the wooden bridge rot and fall apart.
VardaValar1: Security measure?
VardaValar1: They use the boat instead.
AriehnV: very safe indeed *shakes the water out of his hair*
VardaValar1: Twelve yards across of water. That's where our party just crossed.
VardaValar1: Keeps orcs and spiders from zipping across the bridge.
AriehnV: aye point taken :-) but couldnt resist the comment since it was Frali who took a dip in the river , *laughs*]
VardaValar1: It was perfect, Arien. : )
VardaValar1: Not sure you are all familiar with the term "mudder" used
for the pony, but you probably can intuit it. In racing, a horse that
does well running on a muddy track is called a mudder, and people bet
on it on a wet track.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, so we have some basis for "enchanted," at least in keeping webbing off.
VardaValar1: and Gandalf's very strong, oft-repeated warning is interesting.
VardaValar1: It also says the elves' magic is strong, mentions the
enchanted gates of the Elf-king's Hall that he is certain they can't
AriehnV: so basically i wonder how Frali who is cosetting his pony with
his weapons as ready as can be would be reacting to the
elven horses darting away .. pony is pony and follows a sudden panic
and a lot of running other horses in an innate herd instinct , i think
, poor Frali, being a lousy rider would probably get a jerk and be
thrown slightly of balance , but would be able to keep his seat
Eonwe Valar: Maybe he knew provisions were going to get low, and realized that the Elves of Mirkwood were a prickly sort :}
AriehnV: hmm either he would just cling the reins and try not to
fall .. or forget about being a bad rider and just pull his axe
slashing to the left and right hitting either branches spiders or
anything in the way
Eonwe Valar: Auros would be there to keep Frali on his seat :}
Eonwe Valar: At least if the danger is leaving him sitting in the dust.
Getting thrown into magical rivers, the Dwarf is on his own :}
VardaValar1: oops : )
AriehnV: or even might pull Frali over to his horse :-) ? i d think Auros would be an able enough rider to manage such a feet
VardaValar1: Auros has his own problems at the outset. Might make him a bit annoyed with Fainan.
VardaValar1: Sulenar is Auros' horse.
VardaValar1: tum te tum...
Eonwe Valar: I don't know about that. Dwarves might not be light
enough, given natural weight and the mail they wear, even for a Noldo.
AriehnV: hmm i d thought that Frali was riding closest to Mren
Eonwe Valar: Would have to be some help coming from the Dwarf.
AriehnV: fairly at the end of the colony
ArPharazonV: Hmm, what of the horses and ponies? If we're about to
fight, how are they going to get out of it? I'm sure we want none of
VardaValar1: Mirkwood horses are used to fighting. They will hit with front hooves, kick with back, and bite.
VardaValar1: If we are forced off our mounts, we are in trouble for sure.
VardaValar1: Ok, letting everyone catch up on reading the posts. *checks fridge*
Eonwe Valar: When I made my last post, btw, I assumed Calion would be focusing on the arrow.
Eonwe Valar: Seemed t obe a safe assumption from our discussions.
Eonwe Valar: *to be
AriehnV: Pharzies post certainly loooks like it
Eonwe Valar: So why didn't his horse get slapped? :}
ArPharazonV: Yes. That was not my intention. He would take a glance,
maybe a second *at most* to identify not only a marking he's very, very
familiar with, but has only seen 2 days before.
ArPharazonV: Certainly not so long as to have to be called to order by Auros.
ArPharazonV: He would know it came from Calaron and jump to the
conclusion that whoever took him was in the tree over there, and that
even if Calaron himself was not near, whoever shot that arrow would
know more about his location.
ArPharazonV: Again, this would not take long. He would definitely not be as captivated by it as you made it seem.
Eonwe Valar: If Calion trotted over to the tree to retrieve it as an
ambush was going down, close enough to Auros, hehe. I would assume
Calion would want to be sure it was Calaron's arrow, which would
require a closer look.
ArPharazonV: He would look at it, let the gears in his keen elven mind roll, and be ready for combat in a split second.
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure he would need to. The fletching's right
there, visible, sticking out the tree, he's maybe couple of feet away
(it's a narrow path), and he knows it by heart.
ArPharazonV: If it even showed as Elven, or his family's, he'd quickly realise it was Calaron's without wasting another look.
ArPharazonV: Especially since he's aware they're under attack, and
would not take half a minute to trot up to the tree and put a
magnifying glass to it, so to speak.
Eonwe Valar: So, essentially there's no visible way to know you were
actually looking at the arrow, because you did not move towards it.
I'll have to rework the end of my post then.
AriehnV: i am under attack as well .. by several yawns that seem to come in shorter and shorter waves i fear :-(
ArPharazonV: I looked at the arrow. I turned my head, and maybe halted
my breath. It should be enough to give it away. But it shouldn't be
that important that you need to drag me away from it.
Eonwe Valar: Get some sleep if you need to Arien :}
ArPharazonV: But a change in post might be okay. I was already planning
to brush your reprimande away and say something like "Yeah, I'm here,
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, I thought there would be a little more evidence of
concern and desire for proof considering there was an attempted
Kinslaying that you suspect your brother of being involved with in some
AriehnV: it might be actually an idea and i ' ll read it up once its up
AriehnV: Namarie for now and i ll see ur posts
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien :}
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: "you" being Calion, of course.
ArPharazonV has left the room.
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Welcome back? :}
ArPharazonV: Thanks. I do this all the time, getting system errors.
Something wrong with a driver. Even Fladrif has no idea what the
problem could be anymore.
ArPharazonV: I hope you've been saving, Eonwe, since I haven't saved since Varda's crash.
Eonwe Valar: I just did a quick save.
Eonwe Valar: Copy/paste into Notepad kind of quick save, hehe.
ArPharazonV: I'm sure Varda has it too, and if not, she'd better make sure now. That way we can fill in the gaps together.
ArPharazonV: a normal save I mean
Eonwe Valar: The new version of AIM gives me saving problems, like one of the older ones did.
Eonwe Valar: Versoin 6 I think it was that gave me saving problems for a long time.
ArPharazonV: This week I'll spend some more time troubleshooting. I'd
already done a Windows format on monday (complete C format, very
annoying) so I can narrow the problem down to either one of the 3
drivers I've kept (network, chipset, graphic), or one of the hardware
upgrades I got in December.
ArPharazonV: We just completely replaced the network, and it's still happening, so it's got to be something else.
ArPharazonV: Anyway, where were we?
Eonwe Valar: Last thing I said (and was said about the RP) was:
Eonwe Valar: Eonwe Valar: Pardon, I thought there would be a little
more evidence of concern and desire for proof considering there was an
attempted Kinslaying that you suspect your brother of being involved
with in some fashion.
ArPharazonV: Yes. Of course. True. But I think I can set that aside if
we're about to be set on, though if it's just an arrow I might take a
closer look, you're right.
ArPharazonV: I just think it so unlikely that I'm completely forgetting
we're in the middle of an ambush which I just shouted out a moment
ArPharazonV: I might even be planning on taking a closer look after the
immediate danger is over, though of course that doesn't happen if we're
doing a running battle.
Eonwe Valar: I guess I can just delete that entire last paragrpah.
Doesn't seem to affect any posts up after mine if I do, and if all
Calion is doing is looking at an arrow from somewhere between two and
four feet away, I can't think of too many ways Auros would know
specifically that he's looking at an arrow, and Calion doesn't seem to
have spent enough time on it for Auros to see Calion looking at it and
be able to follow Calion's gaze.
ArPharazonV: I could be taking a closer look. It's my brother after
all. But still... there's the ambush. Would my mind be so easily
ArPharazonV: I may not be a Noldo, but I'm still an Elf.
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure. I wasn't planning on looking more closely, but you bring up a good point.
ArPharazonV: I might be trotting by and pulling out the arrow for closer inspection later, but it might not be more than that.
ArPharazonV: Anyway, I should be going soon. Make of your paragraph what you will. 'm sure I could work with either possibility.
ArPharazonV: We are agreed that I don't need to change the numbers, right? We'll be trying to shake off the spiders etc anyway.
Eonwe Valar: They ought to work.
ArPharazonV: Good. No need to change anything then. We'll just assume
I've got a sword, and if I don't have it mentioned somewhere I can
always throw it in an earlier post.
ArPharazonV: gonna save and send this, for what it's worth
Eonwe Valar: It seems you were just dual-wielding your daggers in Part
1, so any swrod would've been picked up on one of our visits to
Mirkwood, if that helps.
Eonwe Valar: swrod = sword
ArPharazonV: Allright. Maybe I grabbed one on our current journey.
VardaValar1: Auros' horse gets slapped because Fainan is protecting Auros who is, to her, the mission widget. : )
Eonwe Valar: Eh, I may just delete that paragraph anyway. I liked it
for the character interaction, but there's little point in the question
Auros was inturrpted asking anyway.
Eonwe Valar: *interrupted.
ArPharazonV: Okay. But I should take a closer look indeed. I'll try to snatch it or break it from the tree when we run by.
ArPharazonV: And then try to confront the shooter after our little interaction with the wolfriders.
Eonwe Valar: And for the record, Auros was talking about fleeing :} he
did say it was folly to fight on ground the enemy had chosen :}
VardaValar1: o wow - missed the last part of Frali's post. His pony needs a slap, aye. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Actually, he won't have said that once I delete that
paragrpah, so we'll be left that Auros was deciding whether to fight or
flee, and Fainan making the decision for him.
VardaValar1: cool :-)
Eonwe Valar: Which part?
ArPharazonV: Namarie all! I'll look forward to the rest of this
discussion among you. This is turning out to be quite interesting, I
never thought this deep into the event when I planned it.
ArPharazonV: did I dc?
VardaValar1: I modified my post.
VardaValar1: That's why you have buddies in this writing venture. : )
ArPharazonV: true :)
VardaValar1: You seem fine, not dc'd.
ArPharazonV: this is why it's a good thing I never really got started on my big ol' work of fiction
ArPharazonV: aye, thought it was just rather silent
VardaValar1: Maybe you need a collaborator.
VardaValar1: It was, since we are playing with the posting. : )
ArPharazonV: I'll see all the edits further on this week when I have time. Gotta be off now. Getting up in some 6 hours.
VardaValar1: Maybe you could do some shorter pieces - get a strong focus first.
VardaValar1: Namarie, Phar!
VardaValar1: It was fun. : )
ArPharazonV: Aye. I suppose that's where this RP comes in. Calaron's
bit in my last post came rather easily, so I'm having some hope.
VardaValar1: Apparently several of us may have been posting at the same time. Makes mine look a bit off, but hopefully ok now.
ArPharazonV: And I've been complimented about my WoW character
biographies I've put up, but then I've always been better at
chronicling than actual action-scenes.
VardaValar1: We all have our writing strengths.
ArPharazonV: Aye, I suppose.
VardaValar1: Get some rest. : )
ArPharazonV has left the room.
VardaValar1: I'm still here. Working on the transcript.
Eonwe Valar: I'll send a copy of mine real quick then.