Valar Guild

July 4, 2010 Sunday Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by:
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (8)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, arwenv1, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, Gilraen-(V)/Iryenth, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    July 4th.
    Indis' birthday.
    Eowyn's engagement.
    WoW beta for Cataclysm may now be talked about and Arwen gave us some cool info.
    Arwen-(V)'s topic concerns the Archetype of the Hero's Journey, and how Frodo didn't follow it in the usual way.
    Forum role-play story discussion and posting.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Ar-Pharazon the Golden!
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Iryenth has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif and Gilraen!
Iryenth: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya both

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership News:
VardaValar1: Do any of you have membership news that you'd like to mention?
VardaValar1: Also, do I have the right time of day for the meeting? *cough*
ArPharazonV: yeah, you've got the right time.. Europe-wise, anyway
VardaValar1: Ok, thanks. :-)
Iryenth: yep
Iryenth: it is the right time, that is
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure if you Americans pulled off another daylight savings mid-summer, but I wouldn't put it past you!
VardaValar1: Today is Indis' birthday.
ArPharazonV: Congrats Indis!
VardaValar1: Our law-makers are rather full of making new rules, lately, aye. ;-)
VardaValar1: Going to have to back them up a bit on that. But for now, on with the meeting!
VardaValar1: How many of you remember Eowyn-(V)?
ArPharazonV: Family of yours, right? Or friend of?
VardaValar1: Our daughter.
ArPharazonV: Hmmhm.
ArPharazonV: Don't remember seeing her in meetings often, it's mostly you that say "she's here and says hi" or something.
VardaValar1: Wednesday she was proposed to and accepted.
ArPharazonV: Congratulations!
Iryenth: Congratulations indeed
VardaValar1: The gentleman plays as a guild-friend with us on WoW Lothar, so none of you here have met him, probably.
VardaValar1: He's still reading the books and plans to join, meaning we'll have another in-guild husband wife team again. Like Gilraen and Gwaihir, Varda and Fangorn. :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you.

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: More stories are coming up, I've been away from home for several days and we just got in early this morning, so there's something for you all to look forward to.

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Is WoW having a summer festival thing going yet?
VardaValar1: LotRO has one going full blast.
VardaValar1: Fladrif, are you there?
arwenv1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arwen! :-)
ArPharazonV: Yeah, this sunday's the last WoW day of the 2-week Midsummer Festival.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar.
ArPharazonV: I didn't get my pet from the summoned boss, but you only get one shot every day at that and I tried every day, so I've got none to blame but Blizzard.
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: Maybe next year!
VardaValar1: and the evil digital dice? : )
VardaValar1: Aye!
ArPharazonV: yep
VardaValar1: Fladrif probably has news from Second Life.
VardaValar1: Maybe he'll tell us after a bit. : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe just came online.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: In LotRO, for our Wednesday instance, we beat the final boss in Fil Gashan.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, hail!
Eonwe Valar: Heya. Sorry I'm late. Internet troubles.
VardaValar1: The storm hitting you over there? It's been really heavy.
Eonwe Valar: No, we actually got sun right now. Just the internet acting up.
VardaValar1: Just for the fun of acting up. Gets that way sometimes. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Eonwe, did you have any news? We just hit the Gaming section.
Eonwe Valar: Actually, I did.
Eonwe Valar: First, there's a new Game Review on the Games Site for LotR: Conquest.
Eonwe Valar: Second, I just made getting reviews up on the Games Site a little bit easier on my end. I can now throw a game review in (formatted properly for the Games Site, of course), run a little program, and mention it in the Gaming News. No further work from me :}
Eonwe Valar: That's it from me.
VardaValar1: Thanks Eonwe :-)
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Do we have anything else under Gaming?
karakedi25: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya birth-day girl!
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis :-)
karakedi25: sorry about being late and not very attentive--have been helping Tulkas with a book skirmish.
karakedi25: which is still going on--just switched computers so I could join the meeting
VardaValar1: Thanks for helping Tulkas. :-)
karakedi25: you're welcome
VardaValar1: Is there any more business before we switch to Tolkien?
Eonwe Valar: Oh, one more gaming thing:
Eonwe Valar: Fangorn, Bilbo, Sauron, and I went into Molten Core earlier in the week and 4-manned it.
VardaValar1: I remember when that would have been impossible. Congrats!
Eonwe Valar: Went quite smoothly with a Ret tank :}
VardaValar1: Open to suggestions for a Tolkien topic.
arwenv1: I might have one =o
arwenv1: one sec though
ArPharazonV: As for WoW, I got Master of Wintergrasp today ;-)
VardaValar1: Tend that cut finger first. :-)
VardaValar1: pvp honor?
ArPharazonV: Achievements
arwenv1: its stopped bleeding and is stinging from an alcohol swap =o
ArPharazonV: getting all the Wintergrasp achievements gets you that one
VardaValar1: Congrats Phar. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Has it been mentioned that the Cataclysm Closed Beta has begun and the NDA was lifted?
VardaValar1: Just right for typing, Arwen.
VardaValar1: Just now, thanks to you, Eonwe. : )
Eonwe Valar: :} I figured Phar would've beat me to mentioning that :}
ArPharazonV: We also tested out the Ruby Sanctum in my raidcommunity today. Got all the minibosses, but the final boss is still quite hard.
arwenv1: hehe
arwenv1: he is hard!
arwenv1: took my raidgroup like.. 2 nights to kill him >.<
ArPharazonV: Oh, no. I don't look at betas much. Released screenshots etc are fun, but I wouldn't like to be in the beta, with everything changing around you all the time. I prefer to see the finished product.
arwenv1: but everyone was all having their own little accidents, and one little accident messes it all up
arwenv1: but the beta is fun, and I'm glad I can now talk about it :-)
ArPharazonV: Hmm. We only had one night today. Took 3 hours to get the trash and the 3 minibosses or so, and we had 2 wipes on Halion. Got him to phase 2 though.
arwenv1: Been bubbling with it for weeks :-)
VardaValar1: Grats Phar!
VardaValar1: Arwen, would you like to bubble over now? : )
ArPharazonV: :-)
arwenv1: sure :-)
arwenv1: and Phar, getting him to phase 2 is the easy part =|
arwenv1: About the beta, I have to say that I LOVE goblins
arwenv1: they are crazy fun, especially the goblin starting area
VardaValar1: Now that is interesting. We've been wondering how they would work out.
ArPharazonV: Ah. Yes. Goblin starting area. I made a bet with someone that there'd be a 3-headed monkey reference in Cataclysm, and the goblin starting zones seemed the best place. Got any news on that? ;-)
arwenv1: um
arwenv1: no idea
arwenv1: I do know that there is a vanilla ice reference
ArPharazonV: Allright, then it'll have to wait *grin*
ArPharazonV: hehe
arwenv1: I think the goblin starting area is the one thing I've had the most fun doing in years of wow, just about.
ArPharazonV: I'll be making a goblin, likely on another server.... it does look like a lot of fun.
arwenv1: but both the worgen and goblin areas are very interesting
arwenv1: The worgen is by necessity a bit darker
arwenv1: but it is a lot like the deathknight starting area
arwenv1: You take the central place through the whole thing, it seems like
arwenv1: its really neat
arwenv1: some of the changes they've made to azeroth are pretty awesome too :-)
arwenv1: and the underwater zones are cool :-)
ArPharazonV: Hmm, I came across a concept of a mob in Gilneas called the Sea Hag, looked fascinating.... seen those around yet?
arwenv1: all the new quests I've done to go from 80-85 had a great pace and story to them as well
arwenv1: I haven't gone as far in Glineas as I have for the goblins >.<
ArPharazonV: hmm, well, keep us informed ;-) I've got a million questions I could ask you, but it's probably a bit too much at once :-)
Eonwe Valar: Don't spoil it too much for me though :}
arwenv1: hehe
arwenv1: you can ask them in private I suppos
arwenv1: e
arwenv1: and I can log in and try and find the answers if I dont know them
ArPharazonV: Nah, I'll keep it this way for now. Don't want to be completely spoiled before it's released.
VardaValar1: The main thing is it sounds as if it's going to be fun to play. : )

VardaValar1: On to Tolkien:
VardaValar1: First, Arien is logging on.
arwenv1: Its definately going to be fun to play :-)
VardaValar1: Arien says she's still stuck in BRD but hopes to pop in soon.
VardaValar1: Arwen's topic concerns the Archetype of the Hero's Journey, and how Frodo didn't follow it in the usual way.
VardaValar1: Arwen, would you like to say more?
arwenv1: Well, it all stems from my recent addiction to and I've been comparing things I like to read to the tropes I find there and the thought has occured to me that Frodo's quest is a Hero's Journey but not always in the normal way
arwenv1: He takes up the One Ring and goes to see it destroyed, and there's trials and tribulations, and he eventually succeeds, but I think its the details that make it interesting :-)
karakedi25: primarily his failure at the end
ArPharazonV: oh goodness... TV tropes
VardaValar1: One main difference is the hero is usually out to get something, not take it to be destroyed.
VardaValar1: Frodo actually does win, not fail. Just not in the standard way, and it's almost completely hidden from the reader. JRRT likes to do things like that all the way through, hidden stuff.
karakedi25: yes true, but he wins indirectly through having been merciful
karakedi25: but as tropes go, he didn't beat the monster directly
ArPharazonV: He set up Gollum for failure though, ensuring his own victory.
VardaValar1: Not just that. His command to the Ring.
VardaValar1: Aye, it doesn't follow the trope or archetype exactly, adding to the interest.
karakedi25: He didn't set up Gollum for failure deliberately.
ArPharazonV: No, but the oath he made Gollum take, did win him his quest, so to speak..
VardaValar1: He warned Gollum. Gollum didn't take the warning.
VardaValar1: I agree. Frodo's journey has fresh twists on the Hero's Journey.
VardaValar1: He also doesn't have to run back home with enemies chasing him.
Eonwe Valar: The enemies were already there.
VardaValar1: That's true, another twist. : )
ArPharazonV: And he passed their leader on his way home.
karakedi25: Another way that it's non-tropic is that (as far as he could tell after destroying the ring), he lay down in resignation to death, rather than triumph.
VardaValar1: Aye!
VardaValar1: True. Frodo believed he was going to his doom. There is the death and resurrection idea.
ArPharazonV: A bit of both there, Indis. He did see his triumph. He thought he was going to die but was glad he'd succeeded nonetheless.
arwenv1: I think he .. did die, in a sense
VardaValar1: The flying eagles of Manwe come like a reward.
VardaValar1: Aye, the resurrection theme is present. How do you mean, Arwen?
arwenv1: he wasn't able to return to the shire and stay there, that the ring took something with it, and it wasnt resurrected
VardaValar1: Aye, Frodo went to Valinor, a kind of death and resurrection in itself, as well as a reward.
VardaValar1: We trust he was healed there, and if not, he would be after going to Eru. (true death)
arwenv1: I think that going ot valinor was the only thing that could.. make him happy afterwards, I feel that there was a sort of seperatedness that he had after the ring was destroyed
VardaValar1: True, and he comments on it.
arwenv1: either from the destruction of the ring or just the carrying of it
VardaValar1: We can see that his behavior is very changed. Saruman comments on how he has grown.
karakedi25: Tolkien writes that the stay in Valinor was temporary, for healing, before he resumed his mortal journey
VardaValar1: Would that be the journey one does after death?
ArPharazonV: Probably mostly from carrying it. It got to his character, and it did not come back unchanged.
karakedi25: he's grown in part at least because he had to make a lot of hard choices that came out right, but he couldn't know that at the time
karakedi25: and resisting the ring doubtless ended up making him stronger in endurance, though it constituted part of the wounds that plagued him after his return to the Shire
karakedi25: And yes, the journey one makes to death for a mortal, and whatever lies after it
VardaValar1: Do you think Frodo also developed in character?
karakedi25: that's what Saruman was talking about, I thought
karakedi25: wiser, less impulsive, more aware of the larger consequences of actions
ArPharazonV: He ended up seeing the world in a different way, and acted on it.
karakedi25: more aware of fine moral distinctions
karakedi25: the usual hero trope has little to say about deep character development
ArPharazonV: Well they can't include everything. But some character development for the hero during his journey is a common aspect, I think.
VardaValar1: The usual hero's journey is supposed to make the character develop along the way.
karakedi25: somewhat, though I believe the focus is more on action than contemplation ;-)
VardaValar1: Maybe we're not using the same stories for "usual'. : )
karakedi25: possibly not
karakedi25: afk to turn on the ac
ArPharazonV: Well, yeah, but that depends on the fiction itself. I mean, it's not Conan we're talking about here.
karakedi25: sorry, need more afk to feed starving cats...
arwenv1: I'm looking at the tvtropes page specifically
VardaValar1: This trope page seems to be borrowing from the ancient Archetypes also.
arwenv1: and it says that the story begins either in the peaceable kingdom which the hero is called upon to save from impending doom (and if anything can describe Sauron, impending doom might be it) or alternatively the wasteland in which the hero must restore his world
arwenv1: and I think frodo does both
arwenv1: first he has to save the shire (and the rest of the world)
arwenv1: and then when he goes back, he has to restore it
VardaValar1: Peaceable kingdom where he starts does sound like the Shire. : )
Eonwe Valar: Ancient Archetypes did come before TV :}
arwenv1: I think tvtropes IS archetypes
arwenv1: it just discusses them in the frame of tv, (and a lot of other things as well)
VardaValar1: Could be. Worth looking at more closely.
arwenv1: they usually have sections on literature in the more specific trope pages
karakedi25: back
arwenv1: but also.. on the wasteland area
VardaValar1: I had thought tropes were plot ideas that kept getting used over and over and over and...
arwenv1: they are in a sense, but if you break them down a lot, many things are that
arwenv1: like.. plucky sidekick
VardaValar1: Aye
arwenv1: or love interest
Eonwe Valar: They had to be something before they were tropes :}
arwenv1: there are lots of love interests in different books
arwenv1: but lots of them can be categorized by similiarities
VardaValar1: A zillioin ways to work the idea of a love interest, as many as there are people.
arwenv1: the princess, mr tall dark and handsome :-)
ArPharazonV: Literature, real life, and actual mythology are sections I've seen appear a lot within tvtropes.
ArPharazonV: Especially concerning the mythology, it's easy to identify the first "generations" of instances where the trope was used.
arwenv1: and in a way - people recognize specific tropes when reading - I guess its a way to infer things about the situation without having to actually write it.
VardaValar1: What the page says is that these are a "catalog of the tricks of the trade for writing fiction."
karakedi25: what would you say Frodo's love interest is, if any?
VardaValar1: The Shire.
VardaValar1: Then it seems to grow out from there as he sees more of the world.
karakedi25: and that's more an agape sort of love than a passionate one
VardaValar1: Right, Frodo learns agape love, setting him apart.
VardaValar1: On the tropes site it says:
VardaValar1: Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations. On the whole, tropes are not clichés. The word clichéd means "stereotyped and trite." In other words, dull and uninteresting. We are not looking for dull and uninteresting entries. We are here to recognize tropes and play with them, not to make fun of them.
karakedi25: yes, in other words, archetypes indeed
VardaValar1: Aye.
VardaValar1: Nice url to play with for a few weeks, Arwen!
arwenv1: from what i was saying earlier, I think frodo's quest also comes about (maybe not on purpose) in restoring Gondor as well
arwenv1: and other parts of the human world.
arwenv1: It might not have been his intent, he went to save his world specifically and the others maybe in a more generalized sense
karakedi25: those are certainly effects of what he did, though his interest in them had to grow as he gained exposure to the world outside the Shire
arwenv1: but both Gondor and Rohan were being besieged and thge destruction of the ring also restored them
karakedi25: that would have been part of his growth
karakedi25: that he could extend his concern for the Shire to all of Western ME
arwenv1: I think it did
arwenv1: I definately think that Gandalf was the herald that brought the 'call to adventure' though
karakedi25: I was just thinking...
karakedi25: of course he was :-)
VardaValar1: Aye on Gandalf. He was really that way for Bilbo. :-)
karakedi25: that both Frodo and Sam 'grew' but in different ways...
VardaValar1: One of the tropes is a character called an Aragorn, hehe.
arwenv1: hehe
karakedi25: Frodo expanded his range, whereas Sam deepened and became more himself
karakedi25: lovely!
ArPharazonV: ..A secondary protagonist who fights the big battles while the actual hero does his thing saving the day...
ArPharazonV: I like it
karakedi25: who draws attention away from the hero
ArPharazonV: Sometimes. Not always. Usually depends on the hero as well.
arwenv1: hehe
arwenv1: they also have a trope "Kneel before Frodo"
arwenv1: a list of other tropes they say are used in lotr :-)
ArPharazonV: Most of which are actually named for Lotr.
ArPharazonV: Oh, wait, that's the first list. Sorry.
ArPharazonV: Big Ol Eyebrows *grin*
VardaValar1: hehe
arwenv1: teehee
VardaValar1: I think we went quiet digging around this entertaining site. : )
arwenv1: its an addicting site :-)
VardaValar1: I'm going to call this After-meeting, so that we can continue digging around and making the occasional comment, or leave if needed.
VardaValar1: Aye!
ArPharazonV: It can eat you up and spit you out and make you wonder "Where did the last 3 months go?"
arwenv1: lol, yes
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: That's what this looks like!
VardaValar1: Thank you for a wonderful url, Arwen. :-)
arwenv1: (you may not thank me in 3 months when you surface) =P
ArPharazonV: Personally I know better than to get lost in Tvtropes, and have forced myself to continue reading the WoW story forum... still nearly 2 months behind ;-)
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: um what? *blows bubbles*
VardaValar1: Switch back and forth between reading?
AriehnV: aiya :-D , oops nah "blasts dwarves" its a vast place aiya all
VardaValar1: heheh
ArPharazonV: It's proving to be an impossible effort. I try to read 2 days' worth of forum-posting every day just to catch up but they're posting so fast I don't think I'll be able to catch up.
VardaValar1: Tell Meriadoc-V to quit sending more fun web comics!
VardaValar1: He dropped this one on me recently:
VardaValar1: That needs to go in our web comics list on the Links. : )
VardaValar1: Good comment on Tolkien's stuff here:
VardaValar1: trying to decide how orcs could be Always Chaotic Evil without being born evil or soulless - since Eru would not give creatures born evil souls, on moral grounds, Morgoth was unable to create souls, and Tolkien believed anything without a soul would be a mere animal
ArPharazonV: Oh god, just what I need... another webcomic to read!
ArPharazonV: I think I got a few new ones as well recently, hardly feel I have the time to even catch up with the archives ;0
VardaValar1: hehe - poor Phar
ArPharazonV: Hmm, might as well pass along one or two to the Valarguild. There's one I haven't gotten really far in but the summary of the rest of it showed good promise, and it's proving quite funny so far... about a barbarian called Bill.
VardaValar1: Url's when you can?
ArPharazonV: Looking for it now.
VardaValar1: Thanks, I think. : )
VardaValar1: Thank you

karakedi25: any thoughts on the RP from here? We're in the middle of battle in the clearing.
arwenv1 has left the room.
AriehnV: i have to read it first whats been posted so far
AriehnV: and post myself ^^ give me five mins and i ll catch up :-)
karakedi25: Arien, Meren gave Frali a warning not to go into the fight right way because she knew that though her weapon would not hurt elves, it might well injure a dwarf
ArPharazonV: I don't know. When it comes to the current situation I'm more invested in Calaron than Calion. While this is somewhat a conscious decision (Calaron might as well shine for the last couple of major appearances he'll have) I do know I need to look at the battle more and see what Calion would do.
ArPharazonV: I know Calion's rather protective of his horse and would rather not go into mounted battle, but he's definitely capable of doing so.
AriehnV: oh dear Frali wont be pleased about that :-(
karakedi25: yes, Meren knew that, which is why she acknowledged his courage while warning him
AriehnV: Post
VardaValar1: Thanks Arien. :-)
VardaValar1: I slipped out for supper.
VardaValar1: Good post, lots of characterization and contrast in a small space, Arien.
AriehnV: sure :-) , i follow a bit the film's tradition giving the dwarf a slightly scots accent
Eonwe Valar: Which was amusing, considering Tolkien, as I recall, said Khuzdul was more similar to Hebrew.
VardaValar1: It shows well the difference in patience between those with differently-lengthed lives.
Eonwe Valar: And besides that, I don't recall any Dwarf ever speaking like a Scot in the LotR books :} Proper pronunciation, and quite wordy at times :}
VardaValar1: I think we all tend to make our dwarves and elves a little more friendly or tolerant of each other than might be expected, so we can expect it to be due to a careful choosing of party members on both elf and dwarf sides.
AriehnV: och aye , i guess its got to do with Frali's youth and eagerness to want to stand out
AriehnV: but at the same time he IS a warrior and fighter
VardaValar1: Good point. For some of these elves, fighting is an everyday thing.
VardaValar1: At least, being in a hostile area is.
AriehnV: yup , and he wants to keep his dignity or not cast any bad picture on his own folk
karakedi25: well done, Arien--and this opens up a chance for more interaction along the line between Frali and Meren :-)
AriehnV: He is well aware of how the elves might see dwarves
Eonwe Valar: Was just reminded of this part here in Appendix F, which now I'm wondering if it or something similar made it into my Dwarf article:
VardaValar1: Aye. The rep of the dwarves rides on Frali!
VardaValar1: If not, you can always add it into the article.
Eonwe Valar: "The Dwarves, too, spoke with skill, readily adapting themselves to their company, though their utterance seemed to some rather harsh and gutteral."
Eonwe Valar: Also this :
Eonwe Valar: "But Orcs and Trolls spoke as they would, without love of words or things; and their language was actually more degraded and filthy than I have shown it. I do not suppose that any will wish for a closer rendering, though models are easy to find. Much the same sort of talk can still be heard among the orc-minded; dreary and repetitive with hatred and comtempt, too long removed from good to retain even verbal vigour, save in the ears of those to whom only the squalid sounds strong."
Eonwe Valar: I think of that part every time I see someone asking for "swear words" in Elvish.
AriehnV: well at the moment Frali hasnt got Sindarin , since he hadnt do much with Elves yet, but that might change and Meren would be an apt teacher as the journey goes along :-)
Eonwe Valar: The Common Speech is readily understood, no need for Sindarin :} (mind you, I haven't read your post yet, I'm just commenting.)
AriehnV: but alas .. Shadow is claiming he chair (well my chair), and i guess its getting time to get upstairs (even tho i start at one o' clock our time , some silly late shifts this week .. yet again)
AriehnV: her chair i mean ^^
Eonwe Valar: hehe
AriehnV: so i bid ye farewell for now , untill we meet again and may the road rise to meet you !
ArPharazonV: Namarie Arien!
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien :}
VardaValar1: Namarie!
AriehnV: Namarie :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: I hope the road doesn't rise to meet us because we're falling over asleep.
VardaValar1: or too much wine.
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Allright, saving and sending
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar. :-)
ArPharazonV (7:28:54 PM):    saved
ArPharazonV (7:30:41 PM):    and sent
ArPharazonV (7:30:45 PM):    Namarie all, then!
VardaValar1 (7:30:58 PM):    Namarie!
Menelvagor Valar (7:37:08 PM):    Aiya!
VardaValar1 (7:38:46 PM):    Aiya Menel
VardaValar1 (7:38:55 PM):    Meeting's over, but nice to see you. : )
VardaValar1 (7:39:10 PM):    Arien posted on the rp.
Menelvagor Valar (7:39:12 PM):    Yeah, I had hoped to be back around 3.5 hours ago :-P
VardaValar1 (7:39:19 PM):    Way it goes. : )
Menelvagor Valar (7:39:31 PM):    Mainly to wish everyone a Happy 4th! :-)
VardaValar1 (7:39:46 PM):    Thank you! :-)
VardaValar1 (7:39:53 PM):    *fireworks*
Menelvagor Valar (7:40:13 PM):    w00t :-)
VardaValar1 (7:42:07 PM):    Arwen gave us a Tolkien topic concerning the Hero's Journey in the LotR.
Menelvagor Valar (7:42:57 PM):    I dropped into LotRO earlier today for a short while.
VardaValar1 (7:43:09 PM):    We got sidetracked with her url
VardaValar1 (7:43:17 PM):    O cool!
Menelvagor Valar (7:43:48 PM):    Mainly to wish everyone a happy 4th as well, but I ended up trying Garth Agarwen.
VardaValar1 (7:44:20 PM):    How did it go?
Menelvagor Valar (7:45:11 PM):    for some odd reason, the Red Maiden seemed to favor stomping me.
Menelvagor Valar (7:45:28 PM):    even though the tank attacked her straight away, and I hadn't even done anything yet.
VardaValar1 (7:45:31 PM):    She does seem to have a personality defect.
Menelvagor Valar (7:45:56 PM):    so for the next 8 or so minutes of the fight, I spent most of it kiting her.
Menelvagor Valar (7:46:20 PM):    and I think we would have downed her if not for the fact that she one-shotted me without any idea how :-P
Menelvagor Valar (7:46:41 PM):    after that, we figured we'd not try again and called it quits.
Menelvagor Valar (7:46:47 PM):    but was quite fun :-)
karakedi25 (8:37:56 PM):    heya Menel :)
Menelvagor Valar (8:39:21 PM):    Aiya Indis :-)
Menelvagor Valar (8:39:26 PM):    Happy 4th! :-D
karakedi25 (8:42:36 PM):    thanks
VardaValar1 (8:45:32 PM):    I may make an attempt to come into LotRO, but am doing an awful lot of back and forth.
Menelvagor Valar (8:45:57 PM):    shouldn't be juggling too much :-)
VardaValar1 (8:46:13 PM):    It's my natural state. ;-)
Menelvagor Valar (8:47:20 PM):    I suppose *wink*