Valar Guild

August 1, 2010 Sunday Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Eonwe, Menelvagor, and Varda.

Attending: (10)
    AriehnV, Arwenv, Ecthelion-(V)/BFIIShotgunner, Eonwe Valar, Galdor-(V)/galdorandwe, Gilraen-(V)/Iryenth, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Menelvagor Valar, TulkasValar61, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Lalwende-(V) is our new member this week.
    Eilenel-(V) has made contact again.
    Ring of Gyges
    Politics that might have been discussed around the dinner table or campfire during the time of the Lord of the Rings in the Shire, Gondor, and Mordor.
    Role-play story discussion and posting.
3:59 pm CST VardaValar1 has entered the room.
3:59 pm Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
3:59 pm Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
3:59 pm Eonwe Valar     3:59 pm
Eonwe Valar (3:59:13 PM): Heya.
Menelvagor Valar (3:59:15 PM): Aiya!
galdorandwe has entered the room.
3:59 pm Iryenth has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar (3:59:24 PM): For a change, I am at home :-D
VardaValar1 (3:59:30 PM): Cool, I was just about to send out invitations.
Eonwe Valar (3:59:36 PM): :}
VardaValar1 (3:59:55 PM): Aiya Eonwe, Galdor, Gilraen, and Menelvagor :-)
Eonwe Valar (4:00:05 PM): MInus the caps...
Galdor (4:00:09 PM): Aiya Varda!
Gilraen (4:00:09 PM): Aiya all
VardaValar1 (4:00:12 PM): Hiya
VardaValar1 (4:00:25 PM): Do you have Ecthelion on your list?
Eonwe Valar (4:00:42 PM): Apparently not.
BFIIShotgunner has entered the room.
BFIIShotgunner (4:00:59 PM): Heya! :-D
VardaValar1 (4:01:03 PM): I have two different ones on my list.
VardaValar1 (4:01:10 PM): Heya Ecthelion!
BFIIShotgunner (4:01:23 PM): Eh?  Two different what now?
VardaValar1 (4:01:55 PM): I just moved the old Ecthelion to my Valar-ex folder to keep from getting mixed up. He's online too.
BFIIShotgunner (4:02:18 PM): Ah.  Does he still join in?
VardaValar1 (4:02:33 PM): If he did, he wouldn't be -ex. :-)
BFIIShotgunner (4:02:33 PM): Is he still a member, or does he need to reapply?
Eonwe Valar (4:02:38 PM): If he did he wouldn't be "ex" Ecthelion :}
BFIIShotgunner (4:02:48 PM): Ah, okay :-)
VardaValar1 (4:02:54 PM): No worries for you. :-)
Ecthelion-(V) (4:04:11 PM): Good news for my family, I finally got my younger sister to really read Lord of the Rings :-D .  She's still with my family so I can't track her progress really well, but she likes it.  She's just now finishing the Fellowship of the Ring
Galdor (4:04:25 PM): That's nice.
VardaValar1 (4:04:29 PM): Fantastic :-)
Eonwe Valar (4:04:39 PM): Cool :}
Galdor (4:04:41 PM): Topic for today?
VardaValar1 (4:04:48 PM): I have one, but we usually do it after the business section.
Galdor (4:05:19 PM): Oh...sorry, "ve been showing up late.
VardaValar1 (4:05:27 PM): The topic I had was what kind of political talk would they have had in LotR times in the Shire, Gondor, and Mordor.
VardaValar1 (4:05:37 PM): Aye, you rarely see the regular meeting. :-)

VardaValar1 (4:05:47 PM): Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1 (4:05:50 PM): Membership:
VardaValar1 (4:06:06 PM): This week we have a new member, Lalwende-(V), from LotRO.
karakedi25 has entered the room. 
karakedi25 (4:06:18 PM): Aiya!
VardaValar1 (4:06:38 PM): She has a husband who read LotR and a son who has had it read to him, and they game, so we may see them in the future.
VardaValar1 (4:06:40 PM): Aiya Indis.
VardaValar1 (4:06:55 PM): Any other Membership news, from anyone?
arwenv1 has entered the room.
karakedi25 (4:07:09 PM): actually the son has read it now, and both he and her husband have accounts in lotro
karakedi25 (4:07:35 PM): though they're more into WoW
VardaValar1 (4:08:01 PM): Aiya Arwen. :-)
VardaValar1 (4:08:16 PM): Lalwende is a long-time friend of Indis' who is the scout. :-)
VardaValar1 (4:08:36 PM): Lalwende has been playing with us for a bit and is fond of game rp. :-)
karakedi25 (4:08:46 PM): I"ve been trying to get her to join us for a couple of years ;)
karakedi25 (4:09:50 PM): Maybe she and I and other interested folk might get some RP going in our kinship (optional of course)
VardaValar1 (4:09:56 PM): Gildor scouted another potential member, but that person had to leave in the middle of the test to pack to get ready to move. Should be back in a week.
VardaValar1 (4:10:12 PM): We always have some rp, whenever the gang starts it up. :-)
VardaValar1 (4:10:25 PM): If one starts, the others tend to jump in.
karakedi25 (4:10:33 PM): *adds the word 'more'*
galdorandwe has left the room.
4:11 pm AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:11:21 PM): We also have another person interested in joining, a wife of another member whom I've known a couple of years.
VardaValar1 (4:11:23 PM): Aiya Arien.
AriehnV (4:11:28 PM): aiya all
karakedi25 (4:11:41 PM): aiya Arien :)
galdorandwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:11:52 PM): Welcome back :-)
Galdor (4:11:57 PM): thanks.
VardaValar1 (4:12:10 PM): Does anyone else have any membership news?
AriehnV (4:12:30 PM): yes :-)
AriehnV (4:12:47 PM):
i had a very surprising recontact and email out of the blue from Eilinel
AriehnV (4:12:52 PM): :-D
VardaValar1 (4:13:12 PM): Great! what happened to her?
AriehnV (4:13:43 PM): I am not sure but it seems that she was quite unwell for a while and had a very irregular life with loads of travelling
VardaValar1 (4:13:59 PM): Makes it hard to keep in contact.
AriehnV (4:14:04 PM): as far as i remember she was in diplomatic service
VardaValar1 (4:14:14 PM): One reason we have a forum and post our emails to the site.
AriehnV (4:14:29 PM): aye i asked her to recontact u
VardaValar1 (4:14:36 PM): Thanks. :-)
AriehnV (4:14:57 PM): she said she would love to play along with us in the rp and the games but she has no time as of yet
VardaValar1 (4:15:03 PM): Does she still have the site?
AriehnV (4:15:27 PM): she wrote a book (or two books i think) and is looking for a publisher at the moment
Menelvagor Valar (4:15:44 PM): back, sorry, was doing a guild random :-P
AriehnV (4:15:47 PM): i gave her the new site-address
VardaValar1 (4:15:48 PM): As a Full Member, to keep membership she merely needs to contact by email or the forum once during the early part of the year to be sure to keep membership.
VardaValar1 (4:15:57 PM): Very good!
Eonwe Valar (4:16:10 PM): Or respond to the GPMU :}
VardaValar1 (4:16:37 PM): Maybe we could put a link to whatever she's using for her book ads to add to her spot in the Membership page, as we do with other personal pages.
VardaValar1 (4:16:44 PM): Aye, what Eonwe said. :-)
AriehnV (4:16:48 PM): all right , if u want i ll whisper u the email adress i have from her mails , might help to get into contact with her in case she lost yours
arwenv1 has left the room.
VardaValar1 (4:17:03 PM): Mine is on the Membership page.
AriehnV (4:17:38 PM): i last heard from her friday
VardaValar1 (4:17:57 PM): Thanks, that's all good news. :-)
VardaValar1 (4:18:28 PM): Any other membership news from anyone?

VardaValar1 (4:21:24 PM): Web:
VardaValar1 (4:22:09 PM): No new items were sent to the Tolkien Site this week. We could use new articles, stories, poetry, humor, art, music, language goodies, or whatever you have for Middle-earth. :-)
VardaValar1 (4:22:22 PM): Eonwe, do you have any news on the Games Site?
Eonwe Valar (4:22:43 PM): I intend to have a review for Starcraft 2 soon, but otherwise, no.
Menelvagor Valar (4:23:05 PM): I have already completed the campaign ^^
VardaValar1 (4:23:06 PM): Thank you. :-)

VardaValar1 (4:23:12 PM): Gaming:
VardaValar1 (4:23:32 PM): What games have folk played this week that were not LotR or WoW?
Eonwe Valar (4:23:49 PM): I played Starcraft 2, since it came out at midnight on Tuesday :}
VardaValar1 (4:23:52 PM): Now you can talk about SC2 etc all you like. :-)
Ecthelion-(V) (4:23:55 PM): Sacred 2.  I was planning on getting Star Craft 2 soon
Ecthelion-(V) (4:24:47 PM): Maybe even trying out the Everquest 2 Free to play game with a friend.
Menelvagor Valar (4:24:59 PM): ick! :-D
Ecthelion-(V) (4:25:11 PM): That bad, eh?
Ecthelion-(V) (4:25:24 PM): Well, it's something to do until the LotrO expansion comes :-D
VardaValar1 (4:26:00 PM): We have tons to do in LotRO until its next expansion too. :-)
Menelvagor Valar (4:26:14 PM): nah, never played EQ or EQ2.
VardaValar1 (4:26:39 PM): EQ2 has a free to play coming out? I used to play EQ, very interesting.
Menelvagor Valar (4:26:40 PM): just that I heard that SoE doesn't have any customer support to speak of, and the balance is really hard to find.
karakedi25 (4:26:49 PM): awsdw
Ecthelion-(V) (4:26:51 PM): EQ 2 comes out the 17th of this month
Menelvagor Valar (4:26:52 PM): but then again, that was for EQ 1.
karakedi25 (4:27:02 PM): they're planning separate servers for the F2P customers
Ecthelion-(V) (4:27:07 PM): Yes.
VardaValar1 (4:27:16 PM): I just found EQ very slow, although fun.
VardaValar1 (4:27:34 PM): So no old hands will be around to guide the F2P's.
karakedi25 (4:27:44 PM): but I agree with Varda, there's plenty for level-capped players to do in LotRO
Eonwe Valar (4:27:55 PM): So they changed their minds about mixing Free-to-play people into the regular population?
karakedi25 (4:28:08 PM): apparently
karakedi25 (4:28:17 PM): (in EQ)
VardaValar1 (4:28:19 PM): LotRO still plans to mix them.
Eonwe Valar (4:28:22 PM): Seems a shame to me.
Menelvagor Valar (4:28:27 PM): and most likely without any customer support at all :-D
Eonwe Valar (4:28:47 PM): Oh, ok. hadm't heard it was coming to EQ.
Eonwe Valar (4:28:53 PM): *hadn't
Ecthelion-(V) (4:29:49 PM): I'm in the beta of the Final Fantasy XIV game as well.  I was in the alpha.  Very good looking game, but that's all I can say for it.  The controls are...special...and there's much work needed to keep the game fresh.  Combat is very slow
VardaValar1 (4:30:42 PM): Betas may only show a part of the game rather than the whole thing, so there's hope that it will have more content?
VardaValar1 (4:31:24 PM): One thing LotRO has over all the other MMO's for a Tolkien fan club, it has Middle-earth and cares about it. : )
VardaValar1 (4:31:33 PM): *end plug*
Ecthelion-(V) (4:31:35 PM): Very true.  This particular beta is very limiting compared to others, though
VardaValar1 (4:32:50 PM): Don't tell more than you're allowed to. This goes on a public transcript.
Ecthelion-(V) (4:33:18 PM): That's all I'll say about it.  Really not much more to say.
VardaValar1 (4:33:26 PM): Thanks for letting us hear. :-)
Invitation result for buddy TulkasValar61 : TulkasValar61 rejected your request.

VardaValar1 (4:34:07 PM): If there is no more under general gaming, Eonwe, do you have a World of WarCraft report?
Eonwe Valar (4:34:52 PM): Afraid not, other than I've crossed paths with the usual suspects.
Eonwe Valar (4:35:12 PM): Bofur, Nob, Eowyn, Sauron, Fangorn, Bilbo, Elwing.
Menelvagor Valar (4:35:12 PM): I have something ^^
Eonwe Valar (4:35:17 PM): and Menelvagor.
Eonwe Valar (4:35:28 PM): who is not quite a usual suspect yet :}
VardaValar1 (4:35:52 PM): Bilbo and Fangorn are in WoW gaming right now. : )
Menelvagor Valar (4:35:56 PM): it's the time zone I tell ya!
Menelvagor Valar (4:36:14 PM): so I noticed on my forays into WoW US :-D
AriehnV (4:36:41 PM): heehe tell me about it .. i know it from LotrO
Menelvagor Valar (4:37:07 PM): I'd like to say though, I had a blast with Bofur running Frostborn quests :-)
Menelvagor Valar (4:37:52 PM): Suffice to say, Sirana Icechriek was no match for a Holy and Prot Pala ^^
AriehnV (4:38:23 PM): *nods* i well believe it
Menelvagor Valar (4:40:15 PM): Oh, I have some bit of news about WoW in general.
VardaValar1 (4:40:22 PM): Menel, go ahead.
Menelvagor Valar (4:41:06 PM): not sure whether it has already been mentioned, but while perusing some of my more regular channels on youtube...
Menelvagor Valar (4:41:42 PM): that Blizzard is going to make the healing game more likely to Classic in Cataclysm.
Menelvagor Valar (4:42:36 PM): This means that mana will become an issue again and people will have to start wondering about what spell to use at what time, and even which rank.
VardaValar1 (4:42:46 PM): Galdor is afk for dinner.
Eonwe Valar (4:42:55 PM): There aren't spell ranks anymore.
Eonwe Valar (4:44:20 PM): Last I recall hearing, spells will grow with you instead of being ranked up.
Menelvagor Valar (4:44:20 PM): yes, there are.
Menelvagor Valar (4:44:36 PM): spell ranks still exist at the moment.
Eonwe Valar (4:44:47 PM): Considering they put in the coefficient penalties to prevent downranking, I don't know why they'd reintroduce it.
Menelvagor Valar (4:44:47 PM): and my source is very reliable :-)
Menelvagor Valar (4:45:04 PM): because nowadays, all healers do is spam heal.
Eonwe Valar (4:45:14 PM): They're giving all healers more tools.
Menelvagor Valar (4:45:25 PM): well, just saying what I heard.
Eonwe Valar (4:45:32 PM): You'll get a small, inefficient heal, a moderate decent heal, and a big heal.
Menelvagor Valar (4:45:42 PM): I'm trying to look up the vid on youtube. I'll link it when I find it.
Eonwe Valar (4:45:53 PM): Plus a few other tricks, presumably.
VardaValar1 (4:46:25 PM): dot heal
Eonwe Valar (4:46:31 PM): Holy Paladins have Word of Glory and Holy Shock as well as Beacon of Light, for example, besides their main three.
VardaValar1 (4:46:33 PM): Area heals
Menelvagor Valar (4:46:50 PM):
Menelvagor Valar (4:47:26 PM): Phar can attest to this guy's reliability :-D
VardaValar1 (4:47:49 PM): We'll know when Cataclysm actually comes out. : )
Menelvagor Valar (4:48:13 PM): aye :-)
VardaValar1 (4:48:23 PM): Thanks for the link. I'll look at it later on, being the curious type. ;-)
Menelvagor Valar (4:48:25 PM): but that's it from me :-)

VardaValar1 (4:48:37 PM): Moving to LotRO:
Menelvagor Valar (4:48:57 PM): it's from the leader of Tankspot, the number 1 raid guide and videos makers in the world.
Eonwe Valar (4:49:43 PM): I'm going by something I recall reading on MMO-champion, which isn't too shabby a source either from what I've seen.
VardaValar1 (4:49:52 PM): Our two regularly scheduled instance days there are Monday and Wednesday 8pm EST. Both days were Skumfil runs in Moria, and well-attended, with some of us being on stand-by and not getting in, so we're doing great on attendance.
VardaValar1 (4:50:31 PM): We also have some runs of varying sizes all the way to 6-mans at odd times, as we happen to get together.
VardaValar1 (4:51:32 PM): We may start reporting more on the non-scheduled runs in the News in the future as well, when I happen to know about them from being there or emails. : )
VardaValar1 (4:51:52 PM): That's all I have on LotRO, unless someone else wishes to mention something?
Eonwe Valar (4:52:18 PM): There are some Dev Diaries and beta journals in the instance changes among other things.
Eonwe Valar (4:52:34 PM): *pn the instance changes
Eonwe Valar (4:52:39 PM): *pn = on
karakedi25 (4:52:51 PM): yes, information about the beta is oozing out in a controlled way
VardaValar1 (4:53:08 PM): The Devs were asking for comments on their updated starting areas, so I may have to start a new character again.  ;-)
Ecthelion-(V) (4:54:24 PM): All I'll say about the beta is that I'm in it and I'm not entirely fond of the revamping the old instances.  I'm an old, bitter man who doesn't like change :-P   Really, for me, it's just the knowing that others can easily start any instance from anywhere and will never experience actually going there.
VardaValar1 (4:54:32 PM): Some of my long pauses are because AIM says someone is typing. Doesn't always seem to happen though.
karakedi25 (4:54:45 PM): oh yes, the (relatively) new 'metadeeds' have people doing old instances to get the mounts that are the main reward for completing them.
karakedi25 (4:55:08 PM): the metadeeds are to complete all the deeds from the instances in a certain area
VardaValar1 (4:55:17 PM): Not go to the instance? Sort of like an automatic meeting horn?
Ecthelion-(V) (4:55:34 PM): They use the Skirmish system and you can start them up anywhere
VardaValar1 (4:56:00 PM): So there's no feel of moving around in the world, just jump into a mini-game?
Eonwe Valar (4:56:04 PM): Like in WoW where you don't have to go to the instance to get in through the Dungeon Finder.
Ecthelion-(V) (4:56:06 PM): Yep.
VardaValar1 (4:56:24 PM): I may join you in the feelings of myrhh, Ecthelion.
Ecthelion-(V) (4:56:36 PM): Yeah :-(   The world feels less connected
VardaValar1 (4:57:07 PM): Do I need to remove this section from the public transcript? This goes on the internet.
Ecthelion-(V) (4:57:40 PM): I don't think I've said anything too impertinent.  Most of this they've already talked about in the Dev Diaries.
VardaValar1 (4:57:50 PM): Don't want Turbine banning you from the game for leaking anything.
VardaValar1 (4:57:53 PM): Okies.
VardaValar1 has left the room.
4:58 pm
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
4:58 pm
Menelvagor Valar     4:58 pm
Menelvagor Valar (4:58:43 PM): After having gone somewhere about a thousand times, I don't really need to see that again :-P
VardaValar1 (4:59:00 PM): Pardon, switching tween tell and main chat and hit the X by accident.
Menelvagor Valar (4:59:12 PM): whoops ^^
VardaValar1 (5:00:00 PM): Is there any other business, new or old, that anyone wishes to bring up before changing to the Tolkien Chat?

VardaValar1 (5:00:28 PM): I have several items to bring up under Tolkien.
VardaValar1 (5:00:37 PM): One is to remember to post to the RP. ;-)
Eonwe Valar (5:01:02 PM): I did that earlier in the week :}
VardaValar1 (5:01:11 PM): Two: Galdor-(V) commented that there is a possibility that a story called "Ring of Gyges",  XII-Glaucon in Plato's Republic, may have influenced Tolkien, a suggestion also given by others online since it predates the Lord of the Rings and was very likely part of Tolkien's reading.
VardaValar1 (5:01:23 PM): In it is a ring that turns the wearer invisible (no retaliation for anonymous behavior), that Glaucon insists to Socrates would corrupt even the just if they had an opportunity to use it.
VardaValar1 (5:02:44 PM): Perhaps some of you noticed this posting on the News page. It would also be nice to post cool comments like this on the Forum to make it easy for all to add their remarks to it.
VardaValar1 (5:03:21 PM): Also, please remember that we have a lot of Tolkien threads on the Forum that we could add comments to from now to the end of the internet. They do not get old.
VardaValar1 (5:04:07 PM): (Pardon, quick afk, since all are quiet and possibly reading.)
Eonwe Valar (5:04:34 PM): Aye. That's why the forum exists :} So we have the leisurely ability to post at any time of day and get to chat even if we never game together :}
VardaValar1 (5:06:22 PM): Back
Eonwe Valar (5:06:31 PM): WB :}
VardaValar1 (5:06:50 PM): Thank you.
VardaValar1 (5:07:23 PM): If we have no comments at this time on the Ring of Gyges, do we have another topic from anyone? Or we can go to the one I mentioned earlier.
Eonwe Valar (5:07:56 PM): I can only commentthat I have a copy of Plato's Republic sitting around somewhere and I've been meaning to read it :}
VardaValar1 (5:08:01 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (5:08:15 PM): That's the purpose of those handy links. :-)
VardaValar1 (5:08:30 PM): Ok, if there are no other comments...
karakedi25 (5:08:38 PM): Tolkien was a classicist as well as an Anglo-Saxonist, so he was almost certainly familiar with the story
VardaValar1 (5:08:46 PM): Aye.
Eonwe Valar (5:08:50 PM): It's possible that the ring in the aforementioned work did influnece Tolkien,..
VardaValar1 (5:09:01 PM): Aye.
karakedi25 (5:09:05 PM): Plus a very strong liberal education that would almost guarantee that he'd read The Republic.
Eonwe Valar (5:09:16 PM): I don't recall any direct references to it in BoLT or UT though, off the top of my head.
VardaValar1 (5:09:18 PM): Galdor, the comments are in agreement with your assessment. :-)
VardaValar1 (5:09:28 PM): Me either, but it's still very likely.
karakedi25 (5:09:58 PM): he doesn't cite everything that influenced him, and he may have forgotten some
VardaValar1 (5:10:03 PM): I'll be more sensitive to any HoME mention next time I'm poking around in there.
VardaValar1 (5:10:35 PM): It's impossible to cite a lifetime of experience. We're expected to have done some reading too, heh. So, aye again.
Eonwe Valar (5:10:35 PM): However, I would think his conclusion on the moral effects of Sauron's Ring would be expected and naturally drawn based on its allures and abilities, whether it relates to Plato or not.
VardaValar1 (5:10:45 PM): True.
Menelvagor Valar (5:10:46 PM): It could be entirely possible that Tolkien did not read the work, and the two are just coincidentally related :-)
Eonwe Valar (5:10:51 PM): The tendency is, that when a person can do what they want, they will be who they are :}
VardaValar1 (5:10:58 PM): It's unlikely that Tolkien didn't read it.
Menelvagor Valar (5:11:16 PM): unlikely, but not impossible :-D
VardaValar1 (5:11:21 PM): yup
VardaValar1 (5:11:32 PM): Moving on to another Tolkien topic,
AriehnV (5:12:17 PM): i ll have a lookout on the Festival in the Shire .. something maybe i could find out there .. theres likely to be something to do with his biograph :-) i would be surprised if there wasnt

VardaValar1 (5:12:17 PM): In the days shown in the Lord of the Rings, what were likely political topics for such places as the Shire, Gondor, and Mordor?
VardaValar1 (5:12:40 PM): There are comments all over the internet that the Ring of Gyges may have had an effect.
karakedi25 (5:12:41 PM): just one other thing--as a Germanist, he'd also be heavily influenced by the Ring myths that Wagner used
Menelvagor Valar (5:12:51 PM): Political topic for Mordor is easy :-P
VardaValar1 (5:12:54 PM): Aye. He would have been aware of them.
karakedi25 (5:13:02 PM): Political topic for the shire is easy too.
Menelvagor Valar (5:13:21 PM): Conquest and no one has anything to say about it, cuz I iz your ruler. period.
VardaValar1 (5:13:23 PM): Gondor was going through a lot of political changes too.
VardaValar1 (5:13:39 PM): That would be Sauron's comment.
Galdor (5:13:43 PM): I have a comment on Mordor and politics as it come from Shagrat's comments near Cirith Ungol...Seem to recall talk about Sauron, the Nazgul and capt.'s and lt.'s having their own thoughts about things...
Menelvagor Valar (5:13:44 PM): aye.
VardaValar1 (5:14:04 PM): A desire to strike out as independent bandit groups was expressed by at least one orc.
karakedi25 (5:14:33 PM): there is of course constant distrust of their leadership
Menelvagor Valar (5:14:49 PM): The Shire would be most likely about Michel Delving, the great Smials, Tookburrough, shirrifs, the oddly Brandybucks, or even what presents one should or should not give :-D
karakedi25 (5:14:52 PM): particularly their immediate leaders
Galdor (5:15:01 PM): Apparently not all of the orcs were so contrrolled by Sauron that there able to scheme on their own.
karakedi25 (5:15:11 PM): and who is mayor, plus gossip about individuals
karakedi25 (5:15:31 PM): possibly complaints about the current occupants of Bag End
AriehnV (5:15:39 PM): and dont forgot that fear was a powerful weapon freely used by Sauron
AriehnV (5:15:49 PM): and brute force
VardaValar1 (5:15:50 PM): Lotho and his Shiriffs were gaining power, and it was not much appreciated.
VardaValar1 (5:16:10 PM): The Shire had changed a lot by the time the four hobbits returned home.
Menelvagor Valar (5:16:25 PM): Aye.
Menelvagor Valar (5:16:50 PM): and Sauron didn't mind his minions scheming, as long as it didn't affect his plans *too* much.
Menelvagor Valar (5:17:04 PM): and wasn't against him.
VardaValar1 (5:17:25 PM): Sauron used others' scheming to help him, like letting Smaug block aid or Shelob block a tunnel.
Menelvagor Valar (5:17:29 PM): scheming against each other is a common theme among evil. it's all about culling the weak and the mindless.
VardaValar1 (5:17:47 PM): Mindless is fine for aiding control.
Menelvagor Valar (5:18:11 PM): true, as long as one who is mindless is strong enough to smash some pesky men and elves.
AriehnV (5:18:14 PM): unless it becomes to petty to be of use
Menelvagor Valar (5:18:17 PM): and lately, hobbits too.
VardaValar1 (5:19:00 PM): Evil can promise power to those who feel powerless or weaker than they wish to be, like Ted Sandyman.
Menelvagor Valar (5:19:06 PM): I reckon that the top political topic on Sauron's agenda towards the end of the War of the Ring was whether to upgrade Hobbits to public enemy #1 ^^
VardaValar1 (5:19:49 PM): What I'm looking for is political topics the general public in those areas would have discussed at their forms of table or campfire.
AriehnV (5:20:20 PM): .after conquering their homeland . aye very much like Saruman or even Sauron who Saruman tried to copy ( .. not that he was aware of it i think)
karakedi25 (5:20:45 PM): in the shire, mostly mayoral elections, new rules and policies and such
Eonwe Valar (5:20:47 PM): Scheming among the lower ranks is one thing, but I didn't get too much of an impression that Sauron and Gothmog were vying for control. It seems the higher levels are beyond that, and, like the Nazgul "know who the real master is."
VardaValar1 (5:21:06 PM): Agreed, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar (5:21:07 PM): "A house divided against itself cannot stand" would be a phrase Tolkien would be familiar with.
karakedi25 (5:21:24 PM): Among Men, almost anything you can think of, depending on the region but I'd guess in Minas Tirith, there was increasing concern about Denethor
VardaValar1 (5:21:47 PM): Gondor, especially the Minas Tirith area, is our scope for Men for today.
VardaValar1 (5:22:29 PM): They also saw Denethor's death and had to consider what was coming in their political future.
VardaValar1 (5:22:46 PM): The Dark Lord was headed right at them, this new king popped up...
karakedi25 (5:22:46 PM): and whether the defensive resources were being used well, especially the treatment of Faramir
VardaValar1 (5:23:15 PM): Aye, the main captain was being over-worked and perhaps badly used.
AriehnV (5:23:15 PM): Gandalf wanted to keep Aragorns true identity secret in the beginning in Gondor
karakedi25 (5:23:21 PM): though that would not necessarily have been generally known
AriehnV (5:23:42 PM): he wasnt sure how a king would be received after the long rule of the stewarts
VardaValar1 (5:23:50 PM): We were privileged to see some of the more common man's comments through Beregond and his young son.
Galdor (5:25:22 PM): There's more to it than just that.Remember, Aragorn served Ecthelion under the iddentity of Thorongil...Denethor was jealous of him at that time for several reason...hence part of why Aragorn slipped away. Denethor learned of this later...that cedrtainly played into it all.
VardaValar1 (5:25:48 PM): Aye, Galdor. : )
AriehnV (5:25:51 PM): ah i had missed that
karakedi25 (5:26:10 PM): Actually Beregond wasn't such a common man--he was a member of an elite guard directly reporting to Denethor
AriehnV (5:26:17 PM): where is that mentioned? in the appendices?
Galdor (5:27:35 PM): I can't recall...perhaps UT or BoLT 1 or 3.
Eonwe Valar (5:28:00 PM): Should be in RotK that he was part of the Tower Guard.
AriehnV (5:28:39 PM): i meant where it is mentioned that Denethor was jealous of Thorongil
Eonwe Valar (5:28:47 PM): Ah, pardon.
karakedi25 (5:30:16 PM): It is in RotK
Eonwe Valar (5:30:30 PM): I don't recall that Beregond was of officer rank though, so that would make him a soldier of more or less common standing.
karakedi25 (5:30:30 PM): oh, the jealousy--not in LotR
karakedi25 (5:30:47 PM): he was a common soldier, but in an elite corps
Eonwe Valar (5:33:15 PM): What do we have to base their recruiting methods on?
VardaValar1 (5:34:38 PM): We see that Beregond's son is learning a bit about his father's business, for one. We can expect him to be interested in joining up in the future.

VardaValar1 (5:37:40 PM): The discussion seems to have died down. Shall we adjourn or comment on the RP in the forum?
VardaValar1 (5:38:55 PM): I mean does anyone want to say anything concerning our forum role-play story?
karakedi25 (5:39:08 PM): we  might want to decide what comes next...and btw...
karakedi25 (5:39:40 PM): elves would be immune to the stuff Meren shot at the orcs, so your characters can go in and melee amid the hacking and coughing
VardaValar1 (5:39:54 PM): My horse is probably not immune?
VardaValar1 (5:40:15 PM): It looks mostly as if we just need to post our parts in the fight at present?
karakedi25 (5:40:15 PM): probably is--this stuff is nasty for humanoids
VardaValar1 (5:40:32 PM): So it doesn't affect spiders and horses.
VardaValar1 (5:40:54 PM): Orcs are created from elves, but this must work on their aberrations?
VardaValar1 (5:41:01 PM): Would it affect our dwarf?
karakedi25 (5:41:26 PM): yes, which is why Meren warned him to let the dust settle
karakedi25 (5:41:52 PM): the spiderbane is safe for all to get into. It just affects spiders.
VardaValar1 (5:42:14 PM): Useful information, thanks.
VardaValar1 (5:42:19 PM): Any other rp comments/
VardaValar1 (5:42:20 PM): ?
karakedi25 (5:42:45 PM): (remember, elves are generally invulnerable to disease)
Eonwe Valar (5:42:46 PM): I gave our enemies some tactical ability.
Eonwe Valar (5:43:09 PM): Flailing about and slayable at will does nothing to show why in the world we were running from them in the first place.
VardaValar1 (5:43:19 PM): I remember. Orcs are also descended from elves, so they may have some resistance to disease?
VardaValar1 (5:43:35 PM): True, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar (5:45:08 PM): The spider part was drawn from Bilbo's fight with the spiders in Mirkwood, the orc tactics from the fight where Hurin's men were slaughtered and he was taken alive, and the general thought of the post a mix of what I was working on last with and a discussion during the week with Menel.
karakedi25 (5:45:13 PM): side issue-Tolkien himself wasn't certain about orc origins
Eonwe Valar (5:45:26 PM): *working on last week
VardaValar1 (5:45:50 PM): Aye, Indis. However we had to decide for ourselves what to take as canon, and we had to go with the published work.
karakedi25 (5:46:18 PM): I find it hard to believe.
Eonwe Valar (5:47:12 PM): The only other option is that orcs are the offspring of evil spirits taking coporeal form that after several generations lost the ability to give up their body and became gradually weaker spiritually.
karakedi25 (5:47:13 PM): and if orcs have lost just about everything else that elves had, why would they keep resistance to disease
Eonwe Valar (5:47:42 PM): They seem to have kept immortality too.
VardaValar1 (5:47:46 PM): Ok, in the rp at this point, the orcs are trying to capture Auros.
VardaValar1 (5:48:05 PM): Estarion has run in and warns of more coming, led by an elf traitor.
VardaValar1 (5:48:34 PM): Auros is cut off from the party a bit, on purpose, by webs and surrounding orcs.
Eonwe Valar (5:48:40 PM): And by "only other option" I mean that of the options given in BoLT it is the only one that would explain their existence before mankind awoke.
Eonwe Valar (5:48:52 PM): and by BoLT, I meant HoME :}
VardaValar1 (5:49:43 PM): Will Auros be calling out any orders to his rather chaotic party members?
Eonwe Valar (5:50:22 PM): If he does, probably not until he and Estarion have dealt with their current predicament.
VardaValar1 (5:50:46 PM): Ok, so that leaves the rest free to post with their own reactions.
Eonwe Valar (5:50:46 PM): My next post is still in the development stages.
AriehnV (5:51:41 PM): hmm since Frali is watching the edges of the clearing and the fight around him very alertly he will notice that Auros is cut off and slowly webbed in
AriehnV (5:52:05 PM): he cant let that happen of course :-)
AriehnV (5:52:18 PM): and he wont
Eonwe Valar (5:52:46 PM): It happened :}
AriehnV (5:53:05 PM): not fair :-(
Eonwe Valar (5:53:34 PM): Well that's what happens when you go charging into the enemy as the only guy brandishing a melee weapon :}
VardaValar1 (5:54:10 PM): Post made.
VardaValar1 (5:56:58 PM): Dive in when ready. : )
Eonwe Valar (5:58:06 PM): The orcs with javelins might be hard to deal with on horseback :}
Eonwe Valar (5:58:59 PM): It seemed to me javelins would move easier through a wooded area than a full spear, so no pikemen, or orcs :}
Eonwe Valar (5:59:13 PM): *pikeorcs :}
VardaValar1 (5:59:32 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (6:00:00 PM): You mean in the train that Estarion is bringing? Auros is definitely fighting orcs.
Eonwe Valar (6:00:24 PM):
"Auros pushed aside the smaller orcs with shields, intent on slaying the large orc issuing orders. The orc met his blade, as several more large orcs gathered around the Noldo. Auros was keenly aware now that he was alone, and far afield. Hastily spun webbing was strewn from trees, hanging low and thick, obscurring the view behind him and making arrows from the outside dangerous, as there could be no guarantee he would not be struck. The orcs he had pushed through now made a line behind him, shields outward and arrayed to deny entry, javelins in hand ready to be thrown or thrust at any who approached. "
Eonwe Valar (6:02:25 PM): They're probably as obscurred by the webbinb as everything else, but they're there :}
Eonwe Valar (6:02:29 PM): *webbing
VardaValar1 (6:03:06 PM): Fainan is taking a line from Tito in reverse.
VardaValar1 (6:03:30 PM): She's breaking into instead of out of a surrounding group.
VardaValar1 (6:03:42 PM): Find the weakest point of the circle and break in there.
VardaValar1 (6:04:28 PM): With a horse, she has a sort of tank that can bowl over some of the outer ring of orcs with flying forefeet. After that, if the javelin guys get a bead on her, she's toast.
karakedi25 (6:04:57 PM): Meren will find a way to do some more nasty cc inside.
VardaValar1 (6:05:48 PM): Thanks, hate to be written out so early. ;-)
Eonwe Valar (6:07:25 PM): The orcs have shields to take the brunt of the hoof onslaught, and it is pretty close-quarters beyond the webbing, the reason it was chosen as the spot to make the capture.
VardaValar1 (6:07:45 PM): Fainan will back up pretty fast when she sees the javelin-throwers, if she can.
VardaValar1 (6:07:59 PM): I mean, after she tries to break the line.
AriehnV (6:08:15 PM): ok dwarf to the rescue .. post
VardaValar1 (6:09:00 PM): Go Frali! :-)
Eonwe Valar (6:09:12 PM): I'm not saying it's impossible to get through, but if it is, the obvious charge down everything and shoot a thousand arrows at 5 feet is probably not it :}
karakedi25 (6:09:36 PM): Read it--I'll give him a warning to stay out of the middle for a bit, as I'll make the orcs sick again.
VardaValar1 (6:09:55 PM): Just a line break and back up.
VardaValar1 (6:10:20 PM): Using a sword, trying to clear some webbing, and bash the weakest part of the line.
Eonwe Valar (6:11:43 PM): In theory, the flanks are usually the weakest of a battle line.
VardaValar1 (6:11:47 PM): The hole should open a weak place in the line for the rest of the party to break into.
VardaValar1 (6:12:03 PM): I thought this was a surrounding circle. Incorrect?
Eonwe Valar (6:12:54 PM): I envisiioned it more of the webbing and orcs cutting of a portion, with large orcs closing in on Auros since the smaller ones wouldn't stand before him.
karakedi25 (6:13:01 PM): Meren is posted.
Eonwe Valar (6:13:36 PM): It would be hard to hang webbing in an open circle :}
VardaValar1 (6:13:43 PM): Nice touch about the leaders being the more resistant.
VardaValar1 (6:13:52 PM): I assumed they were dropping it down.
VardaValar1 (6:14:04 PM): and the webbing mostly to our side.
Eonwe Valar (6:14:08 PM): It's being dropped across a portion of trees.
Eonwe Valar (6:14:34 PM): Like they did to Bilbo to try and trap him, and the did it rather quickly too, the reason I could use it in my post.
VardaValar1 (6:14:40 PM): A kind of curtain between us.
Eonwe Valar (6:14:43 PM): Aye.
VardaValar1 (6:15:43 PM): Aye, so Fainan's trying to cut an opening in it and bash any orcs that should be on the other side, probably just darkish shapes behind it, with some definition in the open spots in the webbing.
VardaValar1 (6:16:20 PM): Frali's coming up with his axe, and Meren behind him with herbs.
VardaValar1 (6:16:44 PM): *wishes for a shield* hehe
karakedi25 (6:16:45 PM): Meren is likely to think about some doctored darts soon.
Eonwe Valar (6:17:27 PM): Just don't forget the spiders that are also attacking you all to keep you busy while they orcs and spiders make their attempt on capturing me :}
VardaValar1 (6:17:59 PM): We cleared them a little bit, probably just long enough for this charge.
karakedi25 (6:18:07 PM): she has more spiderbane too :)
AriehnV (6:18:15 PM): they ll likely drop into the clearing once they see their work fall apart and charge at us
VardaValar1 (6:18:20 PM): When Fainan backs up, assuming she's still with us, she'll have to go back on spider duty.
AriehnV (6:18:27 PM): *pats axe*
karakedi25 (6:18:43 PM): I*pats herb pouch* ;)
VardaValar1 (6:19:11 PM): Hithceleb has a nice stomp, and Fainan will need a minute to switch back to a bow once she sees Auros is being rescued.
VardaValar1 (6:19:48 PM): If the spiders jump, that will be *interesting* to try to fend off.
karakedi25 (6:20:26 PM): Meren will try to make as many unconscious as she can
VardaValar1 (6:20:46 PM): We have a bunch of orcs following Estarion in too.
karakedi25 (6:21:05 PM): and an elf traitor, too
VardaValar1 (6:21:10 PM): Main thing, as far as Fainan is concerned, is Raynor must live, er, Auros must live.
karakedi25 (6:21:12 PM): cum sorcerer
Eonwe Valar (6:21:17 PM): lol
Eonwe Valar (6:21:30 PM): I know someone who played SC2 this week :}
AriehnV (6:21:46 PM): hmm think its time for a patrol of the @Woodelves coming in and clearingf the scum away
AriehnV (6:22:06 PM): they ll certainly have heard the noise of the battle
AriehnV (6:22:11 PM): and activity of the spiders
AriehnV (6:22:53 PM): like this we have all parties concerned trapped between our party Estarion and woodelves
AriehnV (6:23:13 PM): Between all of us we should be able to clear them
VardaValar1 (6:23:40 PM): We should at least live through it. : )
VardaValar1 (6:23:43 PM): Aye, Arien. :-)
AriehnV (6:23:54 PM): The sorcerer probably will escape  i d think? Kind of portals out
Eonwe Valar (6:24:03 PM): No portals in Tolkien :}
AriehnV (6:24:06 PM): depends on what Calaron err Phara has pland
VardaValar1 (6:25:16 PM): Aye. Phar should be back next week.
Eonwe Valar (6:25:28 PM): Or rather, there are portals, but in the traditional sense of the word, not in the fantasy sense of the word :} There are openings that lead into and out of buildings and the like, but none that lead to places 35 miles away :}
VardaValar1 (6:25:33 PM): So we all get our posts for this week, let him see his strategy, and then we mass post again.
VardaValar1 (6:26:45 PM): We will probably be having a patrol show up in a bit, probably what backs off the sorceror as he accomplishes his main goal and sees no need for more casualties.
AriehnV (6:27:22 PM): aye sounds good :-)

AriehnV (6:28:07 PM):
its getting bed time for me ..high bed time in fact :-) i ve been working today and as it is it was no easy workload as the whole week before and in the week to come
Eonwe Valar     6:28 pm
Eonwe Valar (6:28:13 PM):
Sleep well :}
VardaValar1     6:28 pm
VardaValar1 (6:28:19 PM):
Thank you so much for coming, Arien. :-)
VardaValar1 (6:28:26 PM):
Rest well and sleep fast. :-)
AriehnV     6:28 pm
AriehnV (6:28:29 PM):
another stupid late shift :-)
AriehnV (6:28:34 PM):
VardaValar1     6:28 pm
VardaValar1 (6:28:41 PM):
AriehnV     6:29 pm
AriehnV (6:29:02 PM):
Namarie all and i ll keep an eye on the rp
VardaValar1     6:29 pm
VardaValar1 (6:29:10 PM):
Cool. :-)
AriehnV     6:29 pm
AriehnV (6:29:14 PM):
and see u maybe in game :-)
VardaValar1     6:29 pm
VardaValar1 (6:29:21 PM):
That would be fun!
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6:29 pm
karakedi25     6:29 pm
karakedi25 (6:29:32 PM):
what is the main goal that the sorc. will achieve?
VardaValar1     6:30 pm
VardaValar1 (6:30:18 PM):
His message.
VardaValar1     6:34 pm
VardaValar1 (6:34:38 PM):
I'm heading out now, for the fridgen, then possibly grinding worms in the Ram Duath.
VardaValar1 (6:34:40 PM):
VardaValar1 (6:34:49 PM):
karakedi25     6:34 pm
karakedi25 (6:34:54 PM):
galdorandwe has left the room.
6:35 pm
VardaValar1     6:35 pm
VardaValar1 (6:35:06 PM):
Refrigerator. : )
VardaValar1 (6:35:16 PM):
Re-namarie. :-)
karakedi25     6:38 pm
karakedi25 (6:38:33 PM):
karakedi25 (6:38:38 PM):
thanks for a good meeting
Eonwe Valar     6:38 pm
Eonwe Valar (6:38:45 PM):
Since the discussion tapered off, I thought I'd real quick counter Menel's WoW link with one even better than MMO-champion: A post from Blizzard on the Blizzard forums :} Granted, it was posted in March, so I did a quick check for more recent posts mentioning spell ranks as well, and found some concurring from July.
VardaValar1     6:39 pm
VardaValar1 (6:39:19 PM):
Link-post away!
Eonwe Valar     6:39 pm
Eonwe Valar (6:39:43 PM): is the official announcement, in the "Cataclysm stat and system changes" post, just scroll down to where it says "Spell Ranks" under "Going Away Completely."
VardaValar1     6:39 pm
VardaValar1 (6:39:44 PM):
I'll be needing help with the transcript due to the earlier hitting the X button.
VardaValar1 (6:39:51 PM):
Thank you, Eonwe.
VardaValar1     6:40 pm
VardaValar1 (6:40:42 PM):
Happy Birthday to Orome!
Eonwe Valar     6:40 pm
Eonwe Valar (6:40:47 PM):
That's what I'm basing my assumptions of no spell ranks in Cataclsym on, and as I said, I found recent enough forum posts in the Cataclysm forum concurring.
Eonwe Valar (6:42:31 PM):
Happy Birthday Oromë, though you be not here :}
TulkasValar61 has entered the room.
1:45 am
VardaValar1     1:45 am
VardaValar1 (1:45:16):
Aiya Tulkas :-)
karakedi25     1:45 am
karakedi25 (1:45:28):
aiya Tulkas :)
Eonwe Valar     1:45 am
Eonwe Valar (1:45:31):
Heya Tulkas :}
TulkasValar61     1:45 am
TulkasValar61 (1:45:44):
hah..figured our how to get in without an invite
VardaValar1     1:46 am
VardaValar1 (1:46:01):
I sent you one too, but that's very good to hear!
Eonwe Valar     1:46 am
Eonwe Valar (1:46:26):
I sent one, and Tulkas turned it down. Guess my invite wasn't good enough :}
VardaValar1     1:46 am
VardaValar1 (1:46:56):
He didn't take mine either, Eonwe. Getting all independent and coming in on his own.  : )
TulkasValar61     1:47 am
TulkasValar61 (1:47:06):
Actually I tried to get in on Eonwe's invite at 530 but no one was inthe room I joined
Eonwe Valar     1:47 am
Eonwe Valar (1:47:23):
TulkasValar61     1:47 am
TulkasValar61 (1:47:24):
Then diaper change happened
VardaValar1     1:47 am
VardaValar1 (1:47:27):
We were there. I was here before Eonwe.
VardaValar1 (1:47:51):
Most came in with Eonwe, since he invites people as he enters.
VardaValar1 (1:48:21):
Eonwe Valar     1:48 am
Eonwe Valar (1:48:26):
VardaValar1     1:48 am
VardaValar1 (1:48:28):
afk - will scroll
VardaValar1     2:10 am
VardaValar1 (2:10:26):
heh, nothing here. Heading to LotRO!
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karakedi25     2:16 am
karakedi25 (2:16:25):
namarie all
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BFIIShotgunner     2:16 am
BFIIShotgunner (2:16:41):
BFIIShotgunner has left the room.
2:16 am
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2:19 am
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3:19 am
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