ArPharazonV: Hmm. I considered Saruman integral to the Scouring
though. It would just lose a lot of power.
VardaValar1: I picked up the taped
version, and the animated Hobbit.
VardaValar1: I agree.
VardaValar1: They didn't make it to the
Scouring, so it was a moot point.
VardaValar1: He was trying to help them
find ways to squeeze it down and not wreck it.
VardaValar1: I think one major error in
the live movies, maybe to make it less gruesome, is Gollum in Mt. Doom
holding the Ring. He was holding Frodo's
finger with the Ring, which caused his downfall.
VardaValar1: Literal on that downfall.
TulkasValar61: They didnt finish it..or
there was a planned sequel that never got off the ground...I am fumbling
here, have a nasty flu bug so my head isnt
all that functional
VardaValar1: They didn't complete it.
VardaValar1: Lot of spring colds going
on. Crazy up and down weather.
VardaValar1: Eonwe is doing amazing
things that you should enjoy seeing when they come live.
VardaValar1: Sorting, names jumping to
their info on the WoW or LotRO sites, and to our Membership site.
VardaValar1: Counting by people or by
what they play.
VardaValar1: He's quite a programmer. :-)
VardaValar1: I can barely do a bit of
VardaValar1: We hope it will be more
useful to the group.
VardaValar1: It will also jump to our
forum section that tells our latest schemes for gaming: planned
VardaValar1: I've been doing background
work on the Tolkien Site, so it should be nicer. We need more input from
our members on articles, poems,
stories, or whatever you enjoy messing with.
VardaValar1: Phar's dragon art. : )
TulkasValar61: Earlier Indis (i think)
mentioned something Ulmo
wrote? Was that on Lotro
forum or ours ?
VardaValar1: We learned that some people
find us through the gaming site, rather than the main site.
VardaValar1: I asked him earlier about
maybe leading some raids for us, as he's an old hand, about all he's
VardaValar1: He kindly put in a forum
note helping us get organized.
VardaValar1: We are now in Gaming/LotRO. :
TulkasValar61: I teamed up with him way back when I first started...His
irritation at my ineptness was palpable even 100's of miles away :-[
VardaValar1: Go to Lord of the Rings
Online, and then to Raids and Quests.
VardaValar1: awww : )
has entered the room.
TulkasValar61: Aiya indis
VardaValar1: Figured you be in Forges. : )
VardaValar1: Ulmo's expertise will surely
help in the upper level raiding.
VardaValar1: We do need to concentrate on
our mains, as you have been, Tulkas. : )
VardaValar1: Get their traits, especially
the current main ones, to 10.
karakedi25: I am in the forges, but I'll attend as much as I can
VardaValar1: Work on our gear. Crafting
can help a ton there, as well as instances and skirmishes.
VardaValar1: Thanks for coming. : )
VardaValar1: LotRO has been very active,
I'm happy to say. : )
VardaValar1: Phar, have you seen any of
the other Valarites in WoW
ArPharazonV: I do recall someone saying hi in the valar-channel at
some point, but I can't remember who it was now ;-)
ArPharazonV: prrobably Arien
arwenv1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: I hate to see it, but AD looks in bad shape. I'm so glad
you still come to these meetings!
VardaValar1: Arwen! Heya!
arwenv1: Hello :-)
ArPharazonV: Oh, I guess Menel and Arien have other things on their
mind. I know Arien's very regular in here, anyway.
ArPharazonV: oh, AD? Dunno. We disbanded the branch, and I'm doing a
ton of stuff in WoW that has no Valar-connection at all.
VardaValar1: You always did. : )
VardaValar1: Arien is also in LotRO.
ArPharazonV: True, but I've been... very occupied this week,
working on a load of new projects, mostly some pvp
VardaValar1: Menel has a character there,
but plays WoW with his girlfriend, so we never see him.
VardaValar1: Any other games played this
arwenv1: the star craft beta
VardaValar1: O wow!
VardaValar1: If there's a friend channel
in it, you folks need to make Valar and get together sometime. : )
ArPharazonV: hmm, thanks for reminding me of other games, Varda,
I'll just do my weekly Guild Wars login again ;-)
VardaValar1: You're welcome, lol.
VardaValar1: I was remiss, meant to drop
into Second Life
and surprise Fladrif, but haven't made it.
VardaValar1: I'll catch him yet!
ArPharazonV: hmm, he's online... didn't even notice, I just invited
VardaValar1: Dragon Age
40 K I think? being played by Bilbo and Sauron.
VardaValar1: We can let him creak the
stage if he can get in, then move to Tolkien.
VardaValar1: Any luck?
ArPharazonV: He's invited, not responding. I'll pm him.
VardaValar1: He had trouble last time.
VardaValar1: For Tolkien
, I thought it
was interesting how JRRT worked on setting up the world for the
people if they could defeat Sauron.
VardaValar1: The travel, meeting people
they would not have otherwise.
VardaValar1: The world changed for the
free peoples, not the same as it was before the War.
VardaValar1: What did you folks see on
how JRRT set up the peace and new world?
has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien : )
AriehnV: aiyea :-)
VardaValar1: We just moved to Tolkien.
The topic is: What did you folks see on how JRRT set up the peace and
VardaValar1: That's as far as we've
gotten, so it's still fresh for you!
ArPharazonV: well, he's got the elder, departing races playing less
of a role
, in order to set things up for Men...
He had various races working togeether, even
races that *traditionally* were enemies
AriehnV: how exactly do u mean this
question, Varda? Organisatory wise or story wise?
VardaValar1: Kingdom heads changed up
New ones formed and some were gone, like the Eldar Phar mentioned.
VardaValar1: Story. Not sure what you
meant on the other.
VardaValar1: What you two said was
exactly what I was looking for, hoping to bring it down to specifics
from the starting generalities.
ArPharazonV: even Gandalf's role
was as advisor and strategist,
even though he could be quite powerful in combat, he left the majority
of the combat action to Men
VardaValar1: The Fellowship set off a lot
of meetings of people. It was like a huge thing crossing the world and
VardaValar1: Aye, the Istari were
supposed to guide the free people to learn how to handle things on their
own, not rule over them as Sauron and
Saruman wanted to do.
ArPharazonV: That's true. Battle followed them, the Dark Lord's
people were on his trail, and there seemed to be few locations they
passed that didn't feel the influence of
VardaValar1: When Gandalf got left pretty
much on his own, and was reborn as the White, he did do some fighting
and commanding as well. Lucky he
didn't slip to the dark side. : )
ArPharazonV: Hobbits come to Bree? Cue Black Rider raid. Hobbits
come to Lorien? Cue Orcish invasion.
ArPharazonV: *Fellowship, in that latter case
VardaValar1: The Ring was stirring up
evil thing along the way. Sauron was calling in all the evil things,
waking them, setting them in place.
ArPharazonV: I seem to recall Galadriel stating that the Fellowship
brought evil with them, yes. She seems to have talked not only about
the Ring itself but about the dark
forces that follow it.
VardaValar1: The elves whose lands
depended on a Ring
went down about as much as the dependence had held
VardaValar1: So Lorien, held almost
completely in stasis by a Ring, and losing Galadriel as well, went down
VardaValar1: Part of the people moved to
VardaValar1: Rivendell lost Elrond and
his Ring, but it was not so isolationist.
VardaValar1: Elladan and Elrohir kept it
going, and Celeborn was with them for a time.
VardaValar1: What about Mirkwood
VardaValar1: What happened to Thranduil's
people? They had no Ring dependence.
ArPharazonV: Unsure. Mirkwood's Prince went over the sea
There could have been some Mirkwood Elves following him later, saying
"Maybe it's not such a bad
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure if the looking at the sea-business is
part of any Elf, or in this case because Legolas was Sindarin.
VardaValar1: Thranduil's people mostly
remained, probably including Thranduil.
AriehnV: they probably either would
have gone to Rivendell to join the Noldor and lost kin there , gone
across the see or continued living in a clansed
VardaValar1: They even formed a colony
under Legolas in Ithilien.
AriehnV: or Lothlorien
AriehnV: aye makes sense
ArPharazonV: True. The Mirkwood Elves seemed to have a lasting
influence on Middle-Earth, in various places.
VardaValar1: The Sindar were especially
susceptible to the sea-longing, just fine if they didn't see it, but it
they saw it, they needed to go. They were of the
Teleri, the sea-elves.
ArPharazonV: And yet I don't doubt that they became more reclusive
at later times. It has always been one of Tolkien's core-concepts, as
far as I can see, that the Elves
basically disappeared into the background as a whole.
VardaValar1: The Noldor had a low-level
longing all the time, but that made them more resistant.
VardaValar1: As long as mankind was
friendly with the elves, the elves would be ok. Aragorn's kingdom was
VardaValar1: Later though, that would
ArPharazonV: Even from the Book of Lost Tales, the Elves had a
concept about diminishing and disappearing from the eyes of Men, and the
politics of the world.
VardaValar1: The silvans tended to keep
quietly back in the forest.
VardaValar1: Legolas also gave them a
returned tie to the Dwarves. But both Legolas and Gimli eventually left.
ArPharazonV: Though it can be considered that the mythology, as it
stands in Lotr, was no longer meant to be a precursor to our own age
(though I stilll think that likely) I
doubt that the Elves would long continue to play an important role after
the end of the Third Age.
VardaValar1: We can assume that the
friendship or cooperation between elves and dwarves would continue for a
long time. Although both groups might
be distant from mankind.
ArPharazonV: Not even the Mirkwoodians.
ArPharazonV: That's true, yes. After all, the same would probably
go for Dwarves, as I have just said for Elves.
VardaValar1: As far as I can tell, it was
definitely supposed to be our history.
ArPharazonV: Aye. But we don't see any more Elves around, do we?
VardaValar1: The dwarves and ents were
running out of ability to have young.
VardaValar1: The elves would be in hiding
in what forests remained, and some would fade into the landscape,
literally if we go with some of the oldest
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure if that goes for dwarves. The male/female
ratio doesn't show any signs of having been different in the past.
Just close your eyes and you will see them
VardaValar1: The dwarves were already in
VardaValar1: Thanks Arien. : )
VardaValar1: The ents were in serious
ArPharazonV: They, as a population, merely seemed... stable,
especially after most of their enemies disappeared (dragons, balrog,
VardaValar1: But in the time of Aragorn's
kingdom, things were good for all. The hobbits were in a protected area
ArPharazonV: They *were* in trouble, perhaps, but probably thrived
again. I'm not sure the lack of reproduction affected them any more than
it had always done since their
ArPharazonV: Ents, though, are a different matter, yes. They lacked
the ability to reproduce entirely.
VardaValar1: The dwarves had fewer women
than men, and would choose only one male, and if she couldn't have him,
would not marry. And other
females only wanted to craft, not marry.
ArPharazonV: Yes. I'm aware of that part. But I didn't pick up on
it being any better in their ancient past.
ArPharazonV: As far as I could tell, they weren't in any more
"trouble" than they probably always had been.
VardaValar1: So we may have some elves and
dwarves still, and hobbits, but in hiding and in low numbers. : )
VardaValar1: We'll have to hope that the
dwarf women were willing to have lots of kids to make up for the others.
VardaValar1: I was really just shooting
for the time of Aragorn's kingdom, how the LotR events set up the place
at that time, but this was interesting. : )
ArPharazonV: from what I could see, single children were rare. Most
groups of siblings came in 2, 3, or more.
VardaValar1: Ghan-buri-ghan's people came
out of hiding and had a place of their own.
ArPharazonV: Looking at the party of Dwarves Bilbo travelled with,
they mostly seemed to consist of pairs of 2.
VardaValar1: The wild men were given a
part of Mirkwood.
ArPharazonV: Were they? I must've missed that. I thought they
remained in the forests between Rohan and Gondor.
VardaValar1: Rohan and Gondor became close
VardaValar1: The wild men I meant were
not Ghan's people.
ArPharazonV: ah, the Beornings, perhaps?
VardaValar1: The Beornings were safe
VardaValar1: Aragorn's marriage to Arwen
reminded men that the other races were still there, as did the visitors.
VardaValar1: Faramir had a new princedom
ArPharazonV: Arnor seemed to be gaining some structure again.
VardaValar1: Eowyn claimed she was going
to be a healer.
VardaValar1: Aye, Arnor was part of the
ArPharazonV: Cities rebuilt, lone settlements (like Bree)
ArPharazonV: I wonder what they did with Tharbad.
VardaValar1: Aragorn did go north now and
then, stopping just outside the Shire to obey his own law.
VardaValar1: Tharbad was wrecked by
flooding. Probably best not to build there again.
VardaValar1: But all was not completely
VardaValar1: Aragorn and Eomer rode out
together with their armies to keep the peace.
VardaValar1: I'd imagine other allies
helped as well.
ArPharazonV: From where?
VardaValar1: Some roving packs of orcs,
the men that worshipped Sauron, the southerners, cults of the Blue
ArPharazonV: I meant the allies.
ArPharazonV: What kind of allies would they have had in those
battles? Would the Elves and Dwarves have taken some military action
VardaValar1: Allies like elves and
dwarves. Dale was a bit far, but maybe if the trouble was in their area.
VardaValar1: Can you see Gimli and
Legolas not taking their people to help Aragorn in the battles?
ArPharazonV: Aye, that's true.
VardaValar1: The south was probably quite a
problem. Full of lies they'd been told.
ArPharazonV: I was just wondering how much Erebor, Mirkwood, or the
Shire could've helped in the south.
VardaValar1: The east ran a long way up,
and the orcs could've been anywhere they found cover.
VardaValar1: JRRT said he started another
, but it was turning into a "thriller" and he didn't want to
VardaValar1: Even Gimli and Legolas'
leave-taking to Valinor wasn't simple. They had to go completely around
the south end of the continent in their boat
to reach just the Grey Havens.
VardaValar1: Shall we call ithere? We
seem to have covered the topic pretty much.
ArPharazonV: Ah right. The New Shadow?
VardaValar1: That was his working title.
VardaValar1: I suspect the Blue Wizards
would have been prominent.
ArPharazonV: was starting to look more like a "cult"-scenario,
portraying human boredom that comes from peace, if anything
ArPharazonV: if it could've had more scale, like including the Blue
Wizards, yes, it might've been a nice story
VardaValar1: We silly people should enjoy
making things and exploring as much as fighting!
ArPharazonV: but from what I saw, it was going in a whole other
direction from his other work, and perhaps it is best that he did not
work on it further
VardaValar1: A glance at our games
suggests otherwise, however.
VardaValar1: Ok, raising the gavel.
VardaValar1: Play, eat, sleep, and enjoy
the peace we have!
VardaValar1: Namarie : )
ArPharazonV: as an afterthought, though, I liked the fact that the
New Shadow, as the "last" story in the franchise, existed, but
VardaValar1: It gave us something we
should be playing with, adding to maybe.
ArPharazonV: it's quite symbolic about how life goes on continously
ArPharazonV: but you can never really finish everything ;-)
VardaValar1: We're still here!
VardaValar1: I'd like to see the Free
Peoples come out to my stars. : )
ArPharazonV: A wake-up call that says "It doesn't end with Lotr.
Life goes on. We just can't follow it anymore."
VardaValar1: The one they have now will
wear out one day, and they need to find new homes.
VardaValar1: As glacially slow as we are
with our space programs, it's going to take a while.
VardaValar1: I was planning on going to
the moon at least as a tourist! Foot-dragging lot.
VardaValar1: Namarie folks. : )
VardaValar1 has left the room.
AriehnV: Namarie :-)
has left the room.
karakedi25 has left the room.
arwenv1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending