You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya, raiding, brb
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya
Eonwe Valar: 5 minutes to meeting start time.
ArPharazonV: *nod* one more bossfight, hang on
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
VardaValar1: *eyes slightly fried from webwork, brb with coffee*
AriehnV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: OK, Meeting beginning shortly.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arien
VardaValar1: Guys, could you all check http://valarguild.org
and see if it comes up for you? Eonwe is having trouble with it.
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien, Phar, Flad, and Menel!
AriehnV: working for me
VardaValar1: and what browser? Thanks, Arien :-)
VardaValar1: Working on Firefox
Menelvagor Valar: No trouble at all :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Internet Exploder.
Eonwe Valar: hmm, working for me now, but not 10 minutes ago it didn't....
Menelvagor Valar: sometimes stuff like that happens.
FladrifV: ie 6 - 7 -8 working here
AriehnV: works on the exploder as well
Menelvagor Valar: But I prefer the old one anyways :-)
Menelvagor Valar: http://valarguild.org/guild.html
VardaValar1: Old Netscape browser shows it fine too.
FladrifV: netscape 1.1?
VardaValar1: Thanks, Menel - reminds me, I should check it again to make sure that one is updated.
VardaValar1: Netscapte 7.2 hehe
VardaValar1: *makes mad dash to the coffeepot*
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's begin the meeting now.
Eonwe Valar: Varda will be able to scroll when she gets back with her coffee :}
Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Menel has something. God ahead, Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: Well... :-)
Eonwe Valar: *Go ahead, that is.
Menelvagor Valar: It's still like 5 months away...
Menelvagor Valar: But I am planning something big for my anniversary in the Valar Guild :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Not yet working on, but planning to do it anyways :-)
Eonwe Valar: Sounds secrety :}
Menelvagor Valar: not really. just haven't got all the details down really :-)
ArPharazonV: gah, 3%....
ArPharazonV: will be there shortly
Menelvagor Valar: But considering it's my 10th anniversary as a member,
as well as my 5th as Maia, I'd reckon it's worth mentioning that there
is something being planned :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: ..which means we're doing one more, see you in 15 minutes
Menelvagor Valar: I'm also considering to plan something for LotRO after the AIM meeting.
VardaValar1: Very cool, Menel, see you soon Phar. : )
pallandovalar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya Pallando.
Eonwe Valar: We look forward to seeing what you have planned :}
Menelvagor Valar: hehe, thanks :-)
Eonwe Valar: When it's done, of course :}
Menelvagor Valar: And that was my bit of news. I'll let you know when I know more :-)
VardaValar1: Tease. :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Oh yes, suggestions are welcome ^^
Eonwe Valar: :}
Menelvagor Valar: tease? me? *whistles innocently*
Menelvagor Valar: I suppose I can lift a tip of the veil *smile*
VardaValar1: Yes, you. :-)
Menelvagor Valar: One of the things I plan to do is make a Tolkien trivia / questionaire thing.
VardaValar1: Oh fun! We haven't had a new online quiz in an Age. :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I'm actually thinking of doing it live :-)
Menelvagor Valar: and that's where the consideration for LotRO comes from, since I'd have to make separate ones ^^
VardaValar1: Something like a list written down that you can copy/paste?
Menelvagor Valar: pretty much, yeah :-)
VardaValar1: I should be so organized.
VardaValar1: Cool :-)
Menelvagor Valar: And at the moment, I am thinking of having answers via pm, and then tallying scores.
VardaValar1: Sounds like a good thing to do for all of us testing for entries too, but gentler.
Menelvagor Valar: Also thinking of including all books, but mostly Sil / LotR.
Menelvagor Valar: Will try to find a balance between them so I can
tally seperately and give honors for each apart and one overall :-)
VardaValar1: All members have read LotR, but a lot have not read Sil.
karakedi25 has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Which is why the division.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: Heya Indis.
Menelvagor Valar: November 29th there's plans for a party Indis :-)
VardaValar1: Good plan.
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
Menelvagor Valar: I'm
thinking to do 1 Sil and then 1 LotR question, so that those who
haven't read Sil will not be eating their boots too much while waiting :-)
karakedi25: Is this a just-for-fun quiz?
VardaValar1: Then you can repeat it with added questions for the guild anniversary. ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: It's to honor my 10th anniversary as member and 5th as Maia :-)
Menelvagor Valar: ^^
Menelvagor Valar: I became a full member november 29th 1999, and Maia
november 21st 2004. And as luck has it, 29th is on a sunday :-)\
VardaValar1: Time flies. It'll be the guild's and mine's 12th anniversary.
VardaValar1: Nice timing!
Menelvagor Valar: aye!
Menelvagor Valar: But that's about it from the tip-of-the-veil-lifting.
ArPharazonV: Aiya all
Menelvagor Valar: I'll pass the floor back to Eonwe.
ArPharazonV: back from Auriaya in WoW, so here with full attention
Menelvagor Valar: I hope he doesn't mind to have a bit... scorched.
ArPharazonV: just to make it clear
ArPharazonV: this quiz is just LotRO?
my 10th Anniversary is the 6th of November now that I think of it. I
won't be planning anything so extravagant as Menel though :}
Eonwe Valar: As I understand it, it's for everyone, Phar.
ArPharazonV: oh, good :-)
Eonwe Valar: Any other Member news?
: I have internet again
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
FladrifV: and no longer in germany :-)
: oh, and it seems our new cat Frodo is male, so at least that fits ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Happy
Birthday to Earendil
AriehnV: hehe welcome back home
VardaValar1: Welcome home, Fladrif. :-)
ArPharazonV: happy b-day to those 2!
VardaValar1: Good to hear Frodo will not be badly traumatized. : )
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's go to Web News:
Eonwe Valar: First, as you may have noticed or heard, the guild pages have been switched officially to the
Eonwe Valar: If you looked at the Games Page
, you'll see the news boxes there got a bit fancier :}
Eonwe Valar: If you see any problems with the Tolkien
pages, let Varda know.
Menelvagor Valar: I have an issue with the Games page... it's personal, and nothing with the page or navigation itself though.
I already know the majority of problems with the Games Page, because
most exist from my last big work on the back end of stuff on it that I
just haven't got to fixing yet. I am working on it though, so bear with
Eonwe Valar: Anything you'd like to share aloud, or would you prefer to pm it to me?
Menelvagor Valar: Nah, it's just that I show up as playing no games at all :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hmm,..
ArPharazonV: *gasp* you mean the great Menelvagor.. plays games?
Menelvagor Valar: Oh noes!
Eonwe Valar: Typically,
if someone is showing as having no games, that means he or she didn't
answer the annual GPMU letter and didn't send me any gaming info after
the GPMU either.
Eonwe Valar: That may or may not be the case here seeing as alot of updating is going on, but it's typically case.
Menelvagor Valar: Probably I told you in a meeting at some point and it just slipped ^^
karakedi25: Indis isn't on the list at all, but I assume that's because I wasn't a member when the last letter when out.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm
Menelvagor Valar: That's how I've always done it :-)
ArPharazonV: well, now you get to tell him your games all over again ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: I'll get an email out to you about it though, get some correctness in :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hmm,
it's possible the version displaying now isn't my newest version of the
listing as well, if Indis isn't on it. I was sure I put her in there. [Note: The newest version was not up.
VardaValar1: I'll take a gander.
karakedi25: I didn't see her when I went through the site.
karakedi25: no biggie
Eonwe Valar: If
there are doubts or errors about your gaming info, please do send it in
to me. The point of the Games page is to help us find fellow guildie
gamers in the games we play, official branch or no :}
Menelvagor Valar: Well, GPMU is no more than 4-5 months away either :-)
FladrifV: ohnoes digital leaking
Eonwe Valar: True, September is the GPMU month.
Eonwe Valar: Anything you'd like to add about the server switch, Varda?
VardaValar1: GPMU means Games Page Mass Update.
been working on navigation especially, and the site is a massive
tarbaby. If you find link errors on Community or Tolkien, refresh, then
let me know by email, as Eonwe said. Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: Oh, if you see anything on the Games Page that I claim does in fact work, and it doesn't work, let me know that :}
VardaValar1: Be sure to mention your browser and, if possible, your build.
Eonwe Valar: I
know of most of the problems, and I do test things before I put them up
of course, but that doesn't guarantee bug-free all the time ;}
Eonwe Valar: And a big thank you to Alatar
for taking care of the server and domain name for us :}
VardaValar1: Alatar supplies the labor of getting these nice things and pays for them. We all feel very grateful!
Eonwe Valar: In other web news, Fladrif and Luthien have something to say I believe?
FladrifV: Ill invite her
FladrifV: so she can say it herself
Eonwe Valar: ok
FladrifV: seems to fail
Eonwe Valar: Yikes.
Eonwe Valar: She knows you're trying to invite her?
FladrifV: think we can postpone it to next week then :-)
Eonwe Valar: Don't want to share it yourself?
VardaValar1: Or maybe it will become possible in a few minutes.
Eonwe Valar: Or just easier for her to explain?
Eonwe Valar: We can move on for now at least.
Eonwe Valar: Any other web news?
AriehnV: quick link for anyone interested .. something that might be of interest for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i51l3F1WEzY&feature=related
Hammerfall band, LotR movie clips on sacrifice, living in two worlds.]
VardaValar1: She's not responding to a whisper, might be away.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, on to Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: WoW:General
Eonwe Valar: Some changes to mounts
have been announced.
ArPharazonV: ...which is the most useless comment ever
Eonwe Valar: Namely, normal and epic ground mount training as now
available even earlier (20 and 40, respectively) and are cheaper.
ArPharazonV: sheesh, they're really making it easy now aren't they...
VardaValar1: The YouTube from Arien is Tolkien-related, by the way.
Menelvagor Valar: dang!
ArPharazonV: I wonder what the point of travelform is now for druids
VardaValar1: Thank goodness. Maybe I'll get a mount.
Eonwe Valar: Regular
flying now available at 60 and a little cheaper, epic flying still at
70 and just as expensive. However, mounts for each are cheaper and the
training costs can be offset by rep discounts.
Menelvagor Valar: That means that all my 10 characters can now get mounts! :P
Eonwe Valar: Travel form/ Ghostwolf
are now available at 16.
ArPharazonV: that means... about 8 of my characters can get mounts now instead of 3?
ArPharazonV: no, 4
Eonwe Valar: Or rather, will be in the next major content patch.
Menelvagor Valar: 5 here, but all 5 can get flying mounts ^^
ArPharazonV: *grin* that's just one for me ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: err... scrap "5 here" :P
Eonwe Valar: All this stuff about mounts I'm saying "now" about will be in the next major content patch, patch 3.2, Call of the Crusade
Menelvagor Valar: OH!\
Menelvagor Valar: that means Icecrown Citadel will open up as well?
ArPharazonV: oh, together with the new druidy forms...
ArPharazonV: and I don't think so, Menel, though there will be some
arena-ish instance, a new battleground, and some other stuff...
Eonwe Valar: Icecrown should be 3.3
if I remember Blizzard's planned timeline correctly.
ArPharazonV: and some new raidinstance planned but nobody knows what it is yet
Menelvagor Valar: Will Blizz fix the Druid talent tree or make cat and bear items separate again?
ArPharazonV: Gilneas, some Vykrul keep, and a few other stuffs were popular guesses
AriehnV: is epic flying going to be cheaper then>?
Menelvagor Valar: feral talent tree*
Eonwe Valar: Blizzard's doing Q&A sessions for each class. Might as that in the thread on their Druid forums.
ArPharazonV: what do you mean "fix" Menel?
Eonwe Valar: *ask
Menelvagor Valar: Regular
flying now available at 60 and a little cheaper, epic flying still at
70 and just as expensive. However, mounts for each are cheaper and the
training costs can be offset by rep discounts.
Menelvagor Valar: they won't for europe players most likely.
Menelvagor Valar: that's copied from Eonwe btw.
Eonwe Valar: If
you have exalted with a reputation that will teach you epic flying, you
can get a 1000 gold discount, bringing the cost for epic flying to 4000
Menelvagor Valar: I
mean fix that the feral tree is in fact 2 different trees, to get
maximized tanking, there's going to be some cuts on dps and vice versa.
Menelvagor Valar: wow!
ArPharazonV: well that was the point recently, no?
Menelvagor Valar: nice :-)
Eonwe Valar: Feral DPS and tanks I know seem to be doing fine in 25-mans.
ArPharazonV: they wanted druids to be a bit less able to do everything
Menelvagor Valar: They still can.
ArPharazonV: I know they can
Menelvagor Valar: but as bear specced as I am, it gimps my dps quite a bit.
ArPharazonV: well, that *was* the point
Menelvagor Valar: not to mention that I still have to get 2 different sets of gear.
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's not get too bogged down in class talk.
I'm allright, really, I just specced pve for both... I'm missing some
pvp talents but I'm great at tanking and dpsing in one spec...
Menelvagor Valar: It
wasn't Phar, since cat dps spec still is very viable, it just means
that if I want to do cat dps, I actually have to waste my dual for the
Eonwe Valar: In other WoW general news, information on a new battleground
has been released.
Eonwe Valar: Isle of Conquest.
Eonwe Valar: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/3p2/isleofconquest.xml
is where you can get more info on this.
Eonwe Valar: Elwing made it to 77 and now has the ability ot fly around northrend :}
VardaValar1: Fly Elwing, fly!
Eonwe Valar: All the easier to bear that Silmaril over the sea I'm betting :}
ArPharazonV: still has to worry about fatigue though!
Eonwe Valar: I also got another level on my Balance Druid.
VardaValar1: Tell Earendil to speed up Vingilot!
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
Eonwe Valar: That's about it for Lothar, except I saw that Merry popped in for a bit at some point :}
Eonwe Valar: Uldaman: Varda, do you have a report here?
VardaValar1: First, Luthien is back from a phone call.
VardaValar1: Great to hear Merry popped in! Seen him on LotRO too, but not Uldaman.
has been the main point of WoW play lately for the family.
VardaValar1: Got my level 8 paladin to 20 yesterday. Fun class, almost cheating for a warrior to be able to heal herself. ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: Uldaman is the horde or alliance side?
Eonwe Valar: Horde.
VardaValar1: Uldaman has been frequented by Bilbo, Sauron, Fangorn, Eowyn, and myself, often playing together.
VardaValar1: Uldaman is Horde, Lothar is Alliance.
VardaValar1: My blood elf steals power from a captured Naaru.
VardaValar1: I suspect the power corrupts me to the good side, somewhat. Priest does something similar.
ArPharazonV: how very Valarish..
AriehnV: hmm Belfs do that sort of things i fear
Eonwe Valar: Blood Knights no longer gain their powers by taking them from an imprisoned Naaru.
ArPharazonV: what, did he break loose?
VardaValar1: He did get loose.
VardaValar1: What are we using now?
Eonwe Valar: Kael'thas took him to the Sunwell.
ArPharazonV: was that Muru?
Eonwe Valar: For you raiders, he became Entropius, and you killed him.
ArPharazonV: and he was resurrected or something in the end I think?
ArPharazonV: only been there twice I fear
Eonwe Valar: Presumably, Adal is helping you use the Light in a more genuine way.
luthienathariel has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: No,
all that was left of him was his core, I believe it was supposed to
become the heart of the new Sunwell or something like that.
Menelvagor Valar: I wish Blizz would open up inter-faction relationships. especially on role-play servers.
luthienathariel: Elin sila numen omentielvo :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya Luthien.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Luthien
VardaValar1: Mae govannen, Luthien!
AriehnV: mae govannen, mellon
karakedi25: aiya, luthien
VardaValar1: So priests and paladins are now powering off the core? Does this affect us differently?
Eonwe Valar: Gameplay
wise, it doesn't affect you.. Lore-wise, long term it's hoped that
using the Light will free the Blood Elves from their magic addiction.
Eonwe Valar: The Light being a purifying power and all.
Eonwe Valar: Priests
and Paladins aren't powering off the core, yet, so far as I know. The
leader of the Blood Knights swore allegiance to Adal, so I assume he's
granting them power.
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's move on to LotRO.
ArPharazonV: but wasn't their addiction based on the original Sunwell?
VardaValar1: Aye, it was.
ArPharazonV: if they lost it again, would they become addicted again?
ArPharazonV: or is this Sunwell a lot purer than the last?
Eonwe Valar: Their addiction was the reason they created the Sunwell.
VardaValar1: Never got unaddicted.
AriehnV: i think Vreesa is the only one i know off who came off her addiction
VardaValar1: Good to have higher level gamers to help with the lore. Thanks!
AriehnV: and she did it with the help of Rhonin
Eonwe Valar: The
fact they couldn't stop using magic led them to be cast out from Night
Elf society, and so they sailed over the sea, founded Quel-Thalas near
a convergence of powerful leylines, and put the Sunwell there.
Eonwe Valar: Their thousands of years of use of magic got them dependant on it as a people.
Eonwe Valar: Differing
degrees for each person depending on their own habits and abilities of
using magic, but virutally all High Elves were addicted to magic.
Eonwe Valar: *virtually
Eonwe Valar: The Light by most evidence provided is a purifying force, antithesis to Fel magic, which is a corrupting force.
ArPharazonV: holy vs shadow...
aye , true enough , but High elves have backed off from their addiction
or overcome it? and they seem to be more willing to work with the
alliance than their horde counterparts
Eonwe Valar: Shadow *appears* to be another magic of its own, but also antagonist to the Light.
ArPharazonV: as far as I can tell, everything shadow has its origins in
the burning legion.... it appears just another offshoot of fel magic
Eonwe Valar: High Elves and Blood Elves became separate peoples because
the Blood Elves made a decision that feeding their addiction was the
liked to make a distinction between what elves could do and the morgul
magic that Sauron's people did. Wonder if they were really different
types, or just different usage?
Eonwe Valar: The
High Elves in the Alliance have blue eyes, the Blood Elves green, green
being an effect of their willingness to resort to Fel magic to feed
ArPharazonV: there was no actual magic or mana in Middle-earth... but the Morgul-kind seems more akin to it than anything else
karakedi25: or different purposes
Menelvagor Valar: And don't forget their racial ability to tap into,
and drain other creatures of magic to feed their own need for it.
Eonwe Valar: They don't have mana tap any more as I recall.
VardaValar1: Music had power.
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, we should probably move on with the meeting :}
Menelvagor Valar: well, that may be the first sign of their addiction being purified by the light :-)
Eonwe Valar: Not
that I don't enjoy the WoW lore discussion, but unless you want an
essay unleashed upon you in real-time, we should continue :}
Eonwe Valar: LotRO:
Eonwe Valar: Varda, do you have a report you'd like to give?
VardaValar1: I would, actually, but time limits our fun. :-))
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: We have the most Valarites there, and are leveling so that
we have a lot of top level folk, moving up to raid ability.
VardaValar1: We need mostly to get the special gear for enough mains to do proper raiding.
VardaValar1: The new free expansion is coming, a good time to be poised and ready for new things.
VardaValar1: Many of us are at the highest level of crafting, and members need only to ask.
VardaValar1: Mats help too. ;-)
ArPharazonV: (= materials, raw resources)
VardaValar1: I have not been properly updating our info on the forum, may need a push.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar!
ArPharazonV: just figured, with Luthien here ;-)
VardaValar1: And others who read the transcript, aye.
VardaValar1: Indis, did you have anything to add?
AriehnV: Arienwyn is creeping up in snail tempo .. got 24
VardaValar1: yay for creeping up! :-)
AriehnV: oh aye and need those stupid barrows again i ve got the staff quest now for the two halves of that last boss
AriehnV: great barrow i mean ;-) its quite impressive by the way
VardaValar1: Around what time is good for you in LotRO, in EDT, Arien?
VardaValar1: We can get a Great Barrows group up.
karakedi25: no, nothing to add at this time, thanks
AriehnV: probably wednesday after work i think would be good
AriehnV: i work lates then
AriehnV: so after a few hours on wow i could sneak to Lotro ;-)
VardaValar1: About what is sneaking time in Eastern time?
AriehnV: i am off thursday and friday so time doesnt matter
VardaValar1: Helps us guess when you might be around. I seem to miss you.
AriehnV: that l be around seven or half past seven your time or six maybe as it suits you
VardaValar1: That should catch a lot of people online.
karakedi25: I'm sure one of my alts will be around to help out
VardaValar1: Indis has a couple of characters in need of book quests too.
VardaValar1: karakedi25: book 10.5 and beyond for Isaniel, book 12.3 for Celebrethil
karakedi25: thanks, Varda
AriehnV: got some level 28 quest for the epic as well
AriehnV: but i ll check that on wednesday
VardaValar1: Cool, ok.
VardaValar1: Fangorn comes home Thursday, so I don't know what kind of
schedule I'll have, but we should have plenty of people around.
VardaValar1: I think we're done with LotRO, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: ok.
Eonwe Valar: Pallando has Eve
VardaValar1: Go, spaceman!
luthienathariel: *ground control to Mjr. Pallando* *beep*
Okay, Eve news, corporation has two open offices, standings with
thukker mix, and many open employee slots! I'm starting to recruit now
that I'm moving out of the overpopulated systems.
Menelvagor Valar: your own corp, or Valar?
Menelvagor Valar: Cool :-)
pallandovalar: Another hour or two of sleepily doing level 1s and I can move on to a real agent.
Menelvagor Valar: Unfortunately, Anarore is a bit tied up training her Loki skills ^^
VardaValar1: Actual Valar Guild recruits, or branch only?
pallandovalar: We can do branch only?
VardaValar1: Rather not
pallandovalar: I was going for Valar Guild recruits. Am I doing it wrong?
VardaValar1: But you said you were recruiting?
Eonwe Valar: No, go for Valar Guild recruits.
VardaValar1: So I asked.
Menelvagor Valar: Branch only basically means non-Valar Guild members.
VardaValar1: For Valar corp, should be Valarites.
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: No, branch means branch of the Valar Guild.
VardaValar1: Otherwise it's not Valar Guild.
VardaValar1: So I had to ask.
Menelvagor Valar: oh, like that :-)
VardaValar1: Like a tree branch. : )
Menelvagor Valar: hehe :-)
Menelvagor Valar: true :-)
Nope, going for Valar Guild full members. I talked with you before
about the difficulty. I'm thinking of getting an alt into a start corp
and recruiting off of there.
pallandovalar: It's hard for me to break with the "alts are seperate people" thing that I have on my main. (I'm a rper)
VardaValar1: What is a start corp?
Menelvagor Valar: I have an alt in a starter corp :-)
pallandovalar: starter/noob corp: what you're in when you first join.
pallandovalar: basically no matter what you do in eve, you're in a guild, it's just that some of them are npc guilds.
Menelvagor Valar: Or what you get into when you leave a corp you have joined afterwards.
pallandovalar: that's diff.
Menelvagor Valar: same corp, isn't it? :-)
pallandovalar: and due to apochrapy, rms/the gallente one aren't what they used to be.
pallandovalar: but we press on.
pallandovalar: first month of eve is half off if you get it through steam
pallandovalar: for like 3 more days
pallandovalar: and my offer of a free motnh is still open
pallandovalar: that's all here. (sorry, I'm following the updates of the protests in iran)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Pallando :}
Eonwe Valar: Aye, sounds pretty rough there.
Eonwe Valar: Is there any other gaming news?
FladrifV: *wakes up*
FladrifV: *looks around him ah yes, games* yes I played chess
luthienathariel: *hands some Pokon*
Eonwe Valar: Still winning I hope :}
FladrifV: and actually invited some more people to join it
FladrifV: still no losses so far :-)
FladrifV: I start to become above average
VardaValar1: If Meriadoc wanted to play Chess with you, should he email you?
FladrifV: yes or aim
FladrifV: the site will give a good option to make well thought moves
Menelvagor Valar: hmmm...
Menelvagor Valar: I'd like to play you ^^
VardaValar1: What site?
FladrifV: if you want you can give me as referal
VardaValar1: How are you known there?
Menelvagor Valar: Towerknightbishop... nice :-)
FladrifV: litterly translated yes
FladrifV: still sounds better in dutch :-)
ArPharazonV: tower has a different translation in English I thought?
pallandovalar: rook, I believe.
luthienathariel: rook ?
VardaValar1: Tower would be castle or rook.
Menelvagor Valar: ah yes, rook :-)
Menelvagor Valar: darn, almost got the correct translation :-)
ArPharazonV: for you it's rook, knight, bishop... for us it's...
ArPharazonV: tower, horse, ...walker?
VardaValar1: There's a move called "castling" for switching positions.
FladrifV: aye castle
FladrifV: and how do you call enpasant slaan in english?
ArPharazonV: I'm not even sure what "slaan" is in English...
VardaValar1: enpasant sounds like in passing.
ArPharazonV: I doubt you call it hitting other pieces
VardaValar1: slaying at a guess?
FladrifV: yes its the pawn 2 and still take it with an other pawn move
ArPharazonV: could be
VardaValar1: ah got it.
Menelvagor Valar: nah, it's just taking your opponent's piece while you're at it :-)
FladrifV: how is it called
FladrifV: reminds me of battle chess...was a nice game
Menelvagor Valar: no idea the exact move, since I'm not a chess buff ^^
VardaValar1: I'd have to ask Meriadoc, or dig out a book. Don't remember.
ArPharazonV: hmm, battle chess was fun
Eonwe Valar: Shall we carry on?
ArPharazonV: was that the one where the pieces actually kill each other?
FladrifV: En Passant
FladrifV: ok that is the official english name aswell
VardaValar1: In passing, let's let Eonwe go ahead. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
AriehnV: eh time is passing dang it
AriehnV: *sorry my french ^^
Eonwe Valar: If there is no more gaming news,..
VardaValar1: *duct tapes all gamer mouths*
Eonwe Valar: Before we move to Tolkien I believe Pallando wanted to tell us briefly what's going on in Iran
On Friday there was an election in Iran. The current hardline
conservative president claimed victory. People started taking to the
streets. Right now there are ongoing violent protests all over Tehran. http://iran.twazzup.com/
is how I'm following alot of it.
VardaValar1: I heard there's an argument about who really won the presidency, causing the riots?
Eonwe Valar: As I recall, both claimed victory at one point.
VardaValar1: Thanks for the link!
At 4:30am pacific/11:30am gmt tomorrow there's going to be a massive
protest in Tehran and the opposition is calling for everyone to boycott
everything in Iran Tuesday.
VardaValar1: Does that mean they'll all get online and play computer games instead? : )
VardaValar1: *we wish*
ArPharazonV: *ponders* do they use European servers?
VardaValar1: Boycott does not mean *throw bricks*.
Menelvagor Valar: well, apparently the current president won the
elections, even winning a smashing victory in the opposing candidate's
VardaValar1: Not likely. ouch
The German government has called the Iranian ambassador in to explain
himself, and BBC says Iran is jamming their BBC Persia signal. some
people are starting to call it a counter-revolution.
This is all very interesting to me because I'm entirely focused on
Iran/the Perisan language right now, but back to Valar stuffs. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks for the heads-up Pallando.
VardaValar1: Is Iran considerd Europe or Asia?
VardaValar1: Aye, thank you. : )
VardaValar1: So, Asian servers. Although we have an Indonesian Valarite in LotRO.
asia, but asian servers are not that famous.... I'm not sure about any
Asian WoW servers... well, there's russian, and chinese...
pallandovalar: Menel: the election oversight committee within Iran has
called for a recount/new election as the results are "suspect".
VardaValar1: and gold farmers. ;-)
VardaValar1: Suspect, hah! Outright crazy. People don't lose in their hometowns. heh
Eonwe Valar: However it ends up working out, I hope it works out for the people of that nation.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, let's move on to Tolkien now.
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: Since Luthien is here, she can share what Fladrif alluded to earlier :}
luthienathariel: I've got a couple of things
luthienathariel: first, I stumbled on a podcast
about Tolkien, but also about LOTRO
AriehnV: right guys i ll read it up next week :-) i have to go now Luthien and i appologize
luthienathariel: I found it in
luthienathariel: oh ok
luthienathariel: I found it in iTunes by accident
ArPharazonV: namarie Arien
AriehnV: Namarie .. dang them silly rotas
VardaValar1: I'll get the transcript up for you, with Phar's help. : )
Eonwe Valar: Take care Arien.
luthienathariel: and it is sort of an audio walkthrough, very well done (I think)
karakedi25: namarie Arien
AriehnV has left the room.
luthienathariel: and then he tells about some themes concerning the legendarium, usiing examples found in the game
he also tells a bit about Catholicism, because it's actually a priest
who created them, but that is not intruding at all, I really liked the
way he did this
luthienathariel: so here's the url if you want to have a look - http://sqpn.com/category/entertainment/movies-and-tv/secrets-of-the-lord-of-the-rings/
luthienathariel: and the other things are software related
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead.
I know a guy from another tolkien forum, and he created a very cool
that has a Quenya dictionary, a course, and a
tolkienian calendar in it
luthienathariel: and it's free
VardaValar1: Cool, going to blow some time on that page.
VardaValar1: And that one.
luthienathariel: the dictionary and course are the one from Helge Fauskanger
luthienathariel: existing stuff
luthienathariel: but nevertheless, a good job I think
luthienathariel: also have a url for that
luthienathariel: and the last thing is related to that, but nothing ready yet
luthienathariel: it is that I am developing a Sindarin dictionary application
based on the one that Didier Willis has built about 8 yrs ago
luthienathariel: wait, have to let the cat in .. he's making a fuss
luthienathariel: now that one is a bit outdated and Didier has not much time to spend on building an update
karakedi25: will you base yours on his, or start over?
so I talked with him and offered to help, and he gave me the stuff he
had - and I am in the process of building a new app for that
luthienathariel: no, I will only use the linguistic information
luthienathariel: his one is XML based, and I want to make something rather different
luthienathariel: and I could make an online version, as well as a desktop, or mobile version from that
luthienathariel: but that's still in development ...
luthienathariel: ok, done!
VardaValar1: Sounds like a very big project!
luthienathariel: its not too bad ..
VardaValar1: It would be hugely useful.
luthienathariel: not that complex, a dictionary
luthienathariel: yes, I use the original one all the time
luthienathariel: but it misses a lot of words
luthienathariel: new stuff
has come out
VardaValar1: Aye, excellent resource for many folk.
karakedi25: so do I...one thing that would be really helpful would be...
VardaValar1: Where is the new stuff coming from?
luthienathariel: I hope so
luthienathariel: from the Estate
karakedi25: something that helps with compounding the words (lenition)
luthienathariel: they produce these magazines
luthienathariel: Parma Eldalamberion
VardaValar1: Ahhh! Couldn't be much more authoritative than that. : )
karakedi25: Parma Eldalamberon
, I think
luthienathariel: and the most recent one had a lot of new words in it
luthienathariel: that's it
VardaValar1: That's a lot and no mistake. Thanks, Luthien!
karakedi25: help with combining the words in it would be hugely helpful
ArPharazonV: where do these words come from?
ArPharazonV: besides "the estate"
luthienathariel: well, from all that Tolkien wrote ...
karakedi25: Tokien's languages, ffrom unpublished material, I believe
luthienathariel: and that's a lot
ArPharazonV: are they from new documents found? unpublished stuff? or stuff that wasn't made by Tolkien himself?
luthienathariel: it is all indicated whether things are attested or not
VardaValar1: Be sure to let us know sources of new stuff, makes a difference.
luthienathariel: or reconstruced
karakedi25: yes, please
after all the indexes found in his more famous books, as well as HoME,
I didn't think there were too many unpublished sources left
ArPharazonV: some of the things found in HoME 5 (I think) for example
is pretty exhaustive and appears to be hauled from all over the place
VardaValar1: Aye, surprising there's much left to dig out.
luthienathariel: from what I have heard they are not done yet - for quite some time to come
karakedi25: there apparently is a lot of unpublished material made available to the people of Parma Eldalamberon
luthienathariel: and it's not only that - it also has to be interpreted
karakedi25: and maybe some not even made available to them
luthienathariel: where in the linguistic history things fit together etc.
ArPharazonV: hmm, true, it's more than just "new words"
karakedi25: Tolkien's languages were a work in progress, so there's a lot of inconsistence
karakedi25: hence the need for interpretation...
VardaValar1: Some things are easy to catch, like if the word uses the old K or a C. But a lot is not nearly so easy.
ArPharazonV: I'm not primarily interested in the languages themselves,
but if I ever do become interested, this magazine sounds pretty good
Eonwe Valar: Good luck with the immense task you have before you, Luthien :}
luthienathariel: well - immense ...
luthienathariel: it's not that bad :-)
luthienathariel: it's good honest fun
Eonwe Valar: :}
luthienathariel: my type of game, you could say ...
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: And it is a game. Enjoy!
VardaValar1: You benefit all the fans, thank you.
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien Topic: Varda has one. Varda's floor :}
VardaValar1: oops, shutting off intriguing podcast.
VardaValar1: Arien earlier showed us an url to a YouTube
VardaValar1: It alludes to subjects worth discussion in more depth.
VardaValar1: Sacrifice to bring victory
VardaValar1: Being trapped between two worlds.
VardaValar1: For starters, can we come up with some of the sacrifices made to ensure the destruction of the One Ring?
Eonwe Valar: I'll name the easiest one before anyone else does: The Elves :}
VardaValar1: Ok, and what was their sacrifice(s)?
ArPharazonV: the loss of the power of their 3 Rings, meaning a loss of preservation of what remained of their lands
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: The
sacrificed their place in Middle-Earth, their homelands, the ability to
hold back the ravages of time via their Rings of Power.
karakedi25: one of the most obvious would be Frodo's sacrifice of both a finger and a normal life
Eonwe Valar: *They
karakedi25: And in effect, the elves gave up Middle Earth
Menelvagor Valar: Elrond's sacrifice of his daughter to mortality is one.
VardaValar1: and Frodo's health, aye.
Menelvagor Valar: Or rather, to sacrifice his love of her, for her love of Aragorn.
elves that depended on Rings to keep their lands prosperous lost their
way of life, and that tended to make them sail West. So Middle-earth
also lost many of its elves, a world sacrifice.
Menelvagor Valar: Gandalf's sacrifice for the Fellowship.
Menelvagor Valar: Although I suppose that was not entirely planned.
VardaValar1: He knew it could happen, especially if he went to Moria.
ArPharazonV: all the 9 knew they could lose their lives during the Quest
karakedi25: and he did choose to face off the Balrog while the others ran
VardaValar1: True, lives or possible maiming.
VardaValar1: Gandalf told the others to run, since it was a foe beyond any of them.
VardaValar1: He and the balrog were both Maia, so he had a fighting chance.
while Boromir did sacrifice himself.. it was not as much for the Ring
as for his companions, though he could not have known Frodo was already
away from the battle
VardaValar1: If that whip hadn't caught around his leg, he might've made it.
VardaValar1: Aye, Boromir's sacrifice redeemed his honor.
though one wonders if you can call it sacrifice as such... he wasn't
intending to die, and his death didn't prevent anything else
ArPharazonV: unless he sacrificed himself for his honor
VardaValar1: Boromir tried to give the hobbits a chance to escape.
VardaValar1: Not his fault that they didn't.
VardaValar1: He was tanking for them. : )
Menelvagor Valar: unfortunately, they didn't have the gear to dps their foes down after he fell ^^
karakedi25: Faramir sacrificed the love of his father by following Gandalf's guidance.
VardaValar1: True and true.
VardaValar1: Would have been nice if the hobbits could've stealthed out, one of their best talents.
Menelvagor Valar: Théoden sacrificed his life for honor.
karakedi25: and Eowyn sacrificed her health (temporarily)
VardaValar1: Aye, and an example to his people.
ArPharazonV: as did Merry
VardaValar1: They didn't know what they would sacrifice, just that they had a job to do.
ArPharazonV: Sam sacrificed his pots and pans to get to Mount Doom :-)
VardaValar1: Aye, he did.
Menelvagor Valar: The Hovvits sacrificed their peaceful way of life when rallied by the Frodo, Merry, Sam and Pippin.
VardaValar1: They were near and dear to him, and part of what he used to keep Frodo alive.
VardaValar1: That's one you don't hear often, aye.
ArPharazonV: the Hobbits' peaceful way of life wasn't that peaceful anymore by the time those four arrived, though
VardaValar1: The Istari all sacrificed themselves by answering the call of the Valar to hold back Sauron.
VardaValar1: Their original intentions were noble.
Menelvagor Valar: Quite.
VardaValar1: Fangorn and the ents marched on Orthanc, knowing it might be their last march.
VardaValar1: They were ready to sacrifice themselves.
whole Fellowship knew they might be making the ultimate sacrifice, and
certainly knew they would endure hardship and the call of the Ring
versus their souls.
Menelvagor Valar: Shall we not forget Brand and Dain when they sent away the messengers for Sauron?
VardaValar1: I would have liked to have seen more of their inner struggles against the Ring, and how they fought back.
VardaValar1: Aye, they were risking a lot by not giving an immediate yes to the messengers of Sauron.
VardaValar1: They asked about them, tried to find out what was going on.
VardaValar1: They lost lives holding back the armies that attacked their northern pass.
VardaValar1: The Mirkwood elves fought back against Dol Guldur and saw much of their forest burned down.
Eonwe Valar: Dain actually gave his life.
ArPharazonV: so did Bard, I think?
VardaValar1: The human leader aye
Eonwe Valar: Brand, grandson of Bard.
ArPharazonV: Brand, that was it...
Eonwe Valar: Pippin sacrificed his foolishness :}
VardaValar1: Good thing the Hobbit (at Gandalf's instigation) caused
the end of Smaug before that, or we'd have lost an awful lot!
karakedi25: or at least his innocence
VardaValar1: Pippin grew up and became a warrior leader in the Shire, as well as Thain.
VardaValar1: The experience taught him a lot.
hmm, ignoring the implications to Bilbo and the Ring... what would have
happened in the North if Smaug hadn't been slain? would it have made
Sauron's conquest of Mirkwood and surrounding area that much easier?
VardaValar1: Yes. His armies would've come right through the northern
pass, meeting little or no resistance, and had no bottleneck.
Eonwe Valar: Having a dragon there to cow any possible human or dwarven ambitions would have a great impact on that area.
Eonwe Valar: *or elven
Dale and Laketown, Mirkwood's raft elves would have had no business,
and supplies to Mirkwood would be cut from that direction.
ArPharazonV: would Smaug have been on his side?
VardaValar1: Smaug would not have been against Sauron.
VardaValar1: He was part of Sauron's plan, even if not his minion. He was being used.
ArPharazonV: would he have objected to any attempt Sauron could've made to claim Erebor?
VardaValar1: Sauron did that a number of times: Smaug, Shelob, Balrog.
Eonwe Valar: Saruman.
VardaValar1: Aye, and Saruman.
ArPharazonV: Saruman was hoping to betray him though
VardaValar1: Didn't matter. Sauron was using him.
VardaValar1: Orcs would've been happy to set up separate bandit kingdoms too.
Menelvagor Valar: Actually.
VardaValar1: Hmm, fell beasts vs Smaug...
Menelvagor Valar: I rather doubt that Sauron could have claimed Erebor with Smaug.
Menelvagor Valar: Would he have had the One Ring, he would have been able to bend Smaug to his will.
VardaValar1: If a human could shoot Smaug, Sauron could find a way to deal with him. : )
Menelvagor Valar: Well, I'd reckon Sauron would let him keep Erebor and
instead play on his greed and promise more riches in return for his aid.
ArPharazonV: Sauron wouldn't get a bird to tell him Smaug's weak spot though ;-)
VardaValar1: Sauron was very good at making promises or using fear or outright power.
Menelvagor Valar: And, of course, after he got the One Ring back, withhold that reward and exert his dominion anyways.
ArPharazonV: true, with the Ring...
luthienathariel has left the room.
VardaValar1: Or let him have some reward, but be a servant or like Shelob, a deterrent.
VardaValar1: Luthien said she's dead tired. Figure the rest of our Europeans are as well?
ArPharazonV: a deterrent to whom? once he had the Ring, and the free peoples were defeated...
ArPharazonV: who could oppose him still?
VardaValar1: His own people.
ArPharazonV: Hm. Perhaps.
Eonwe Valar: Without Gondolin in the way, Morgoth was virtually unopposed. He still kept breeding creatures though.
and I have a day off tomorrow, just watching some show I downloaded
ages ago while keeping the chatroom on the other half of the screen so
you're welcome to continue ;-)
karakedi25: he might have anticipated a fight from the Valar
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Sauron was well aware of the power of the other Valar.... what would he
have been able to do for defense if he expected a battle?
ArPharazonV: he knew the Valar were reluctant to interfere with
Middle-Earth, so as long as he would not attract their direct
ArPharazonV: he should be as safe as he could ever be
Eonwe Valar: Make war with him such a devastating prospect to Middl-Earth that the Valar would think twice about it.
ArPharazonV: or well, when I say "other" Valar I know he's not one himself...
VardaValar1: Ainur is what you meant, I think?
ArPharazonV: perhaps, or just leave out the "other"
Eonwe Valar: I assumed you meant "other Valar" as opposed to his Vala, Morgoth.
kept thinking all through history that the Valar were no longer
watching Middle-earth or interested in it, leaving him free to operate.
Menelvagor Valar: Not really tired, besides, playing chess with Flad :-)
ArPharazonV: that's also a possibility... sometimes I write these things without remembering what I was thinking when I did ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Shall we bang the gavel here and let everyone turn their attentions elsewhere?
karakedi25: Do we want to talk at all about the RP?
VardaValar1: Did you read Menel's post?
Menelvagor Valar: I posted during the meeting.
Menelvagor Valar: and one a few days before.
ArPharazonV: I think I was waiting for a post from Auros before deciding how to make my next one
karakedi25: ah, no I didn't know that
ArPharazonV: no rush though
karakedi25: I saw the previous one
Eonwe Valar: I meant to mention ot Arien to make sure it was clear that Auros did *not* agree to go to Mirkwood.
Eonwe Valar: Menel's Estarion post about the horse was a concern, but Menel liked to apparent misunderstanding, so it works.
Eonwe Valar: *liked the
Eonwe Valar: I plan to use that in my next post.
karakedi25: well done, Menel...got the amends for the horse in nicelyh
Menelvagor Valar: well, the misunderstandings add to character interaction. Makes it more life-like :-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: Since you wanted to stick with that after understanding what I meant, it's fine with me :}
Eonwe Valar: I will probably move us on to the next day with my next post, when I make it.
Eonwe Valar: Do
I need to hold back for others to finish their character interactions
during this evening of the story, or can I proceed at will?
karakedi25: good. Meren is ready for it
VardaValar1: Ok, I posted.
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure, I believe Calion and Auros were in conversation, or did I miss something?
ArPharazonV: I addressed you anyway, don't remember how you dealt with it
Menelvagor Valar: Good post :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Allows me to have Auros find me asleep on the horse the next morning ^^
Eonwe Valar: I probably haven't yet.
Eonwe Valar: If
it requires more discussion between our characters, my next post won't
be the "next day" post, but it will come shortly after.
not sure if I want to make a post about preparing for the trip, there's
not much left... I could do some overnight stuff, sure, but that would
require us to finish our conversation first before the next day arrives
ArPharazonV: then again, I've done a lot of "flashback" stuff already, so it might not be a problem
ArPharazonV: I've never been one to keep to strict chronological order :-)
karakedi25: I think Meren has put in as much as she can until the trip starts up
ArPharazonV: but do you want to respond or not? it's not necessary
Menelvagor Valar: well, it's a hellish job to get all these posts in chronological order anyways :-)
Eonwe Valar: Let me reread it and I'll probably add a short post.
Menelvagor Valar: I
don't have much to add, although I could post that I am trying to get
the hang of horseback riding until falling asleep on the horse.
Menelvagor Valar: After all, Estarion did not sleep since the day before the party left Erebor :-)
VardaValar1: We can make a post that says, "The next day..." :-)
VardaValar1: Mine is pretty well done for the night.
it's getting hard to think of new stuff for the overnight
preparations.... it's not like I have a book to read or some skill to
karakedi25: maybe we don't need any more preparations
ArPharazonV: maybe not... maybe Calion could use a good night's sleep
Eonwe Valar: Aye,
we don't need a whole series of prep posts. We can assume we would've
taken care of them, unless in the morning your character wants to make
a particular fuss about something he or she forgot.... like rope :}
ArPharazonV: my pocket handkerchief!
ArPharazonV: sorry, that's what you get when you've been rereading the beginning of The Hobbit
Eonwe Valar: hehe
pallandovalar: sorry to interject: http://twitter.com/persiankiwi
Menelvagor Valar: w00t
Menelvagor Valar: short post :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I finally managed to get one.
Menelvagor Valar: definitely not one of my high flyers, but it'll do :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks Pallando, and please feel free to interject. : )
ArPharazonV: a typical post made when tired and ready to sleep.. fitting ;-)
pallandovalar: the site linked in his second most recent post..using my broken persian..
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: yikes on that post, Pallando.
VardaValar1: Makes me so glad to be in the US.
the force in civnilian clothes (secret police?) and security to the
college protest at the university of tehran, more than 15 of the uni of
tehran students something something were injured.
pallandovalar: getting distracted like 6 different ways
pallandovalar: so much info
VardaValar1: So wrong to injure or kill their own future, which is what university students are.
Menelvagor Valar: well, all this violence can actually do 2 things:
Menelvagor Valar: 1) incite more violence for a more hostile take-over from the more liberal side.
Eonwe Valar: Posted.
Menelvagor Valar: 2) or subdue the populace and get them into line with fear and harbouring loads of grudges.
VardaValar1: Fear, like that used so effectively by Sauron, is a popular tool in that part of the world.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh yes.
Menelvagor Valar: But tyranny has a way of undermining itself.
ArPharazonV: tyranny is only a short-term solution
Menelvagor Valar: some day, maybe not in this lifetime or the next, some people will stand up and say enough is enough.
karakedi25: on the other hand, they do have the guns
ArPharazonV: the tyrants themselves only care about their own lifetime, maybe a generation to come
ArPharazonV: you'd think they'd know by now it'll fail sooner or later
karakedi25 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Might make them more frantic to keep power while they can?
ArPharazonV: "while they can" is the key phrase there
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: sorry, accidentally logged out
they know it won't last forever, but as long as they can do what they
want while they're around to do it, they don't care about anyone else's
VardaValar1: Some seem to want to see their dynasty carried on, but that doesn't help their people be happy generally.
only thing good about a tyrant is if he can keep things stable. Having
to quell riots means he is not keeping it stable, just bashing heads to
force his way.
<-- Injuries of the University of Tehran students
pallandovalar: Not pretty
pallandovalar: my persian isn't good enough to trasnlate what they're saying unfortunately. :-(
ArPharazonV: there's also a fine line between stable and stagnant
ArPharazonV: if it's spelled that way
pallandovalar: it is
VardaValar1: Stable and stagnant are different to me, not a fine line.
VardaValar1: I am against dictatorship. I even asked Eowne to co-chair with me. :-)
VardaValar1: We listen to the membership and try to do the best for all. This should tell how I feel about how to govern. :-)
you can try to keep things stable and constant, but it'll hinder
progress especially if progress would mean sacrificing some authority
or stability or tradition
Menelvagor Valar: And Flad just won another game :-)
ArPharazonV: grats Flad :-)
VardaValar1: Grats Flad!
VardaValar1: Stable does not mean to hinder progress. :-)
VardaValar1: Stagnant does.
ArPharazonV: but it can
ArPharazonV: and it can lead to stag...nance?
ArPharazonV: right, that's it
VardaValar1: Like the elves.
VardaValar1: Thus I try to be more like Mirkwood, working for the future, than Lorien, trying to keep the past. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Well, the Elves generally had an aging population is part of the problem.
Menelvagor Valar: made him work for it though :-)
FladrifV: *bow* it was a fun game
Eonwe Valar: While there were still young Elves, Middle-Earth had Elves to which it was fresh and new.
VardaValar1: True. Reason we keep trying to add new blood, and why university students must be taken care of rather than shot.
ArPharazonV: Elves who wanted to make a difference in the world, tried
to found kingdoms of their own, set down their place in history
karakedi25: every group needs some new blood
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Galadriel was a good example of such a young elf who did end up losing
her ambitions in order to keep her... humanity? elfinity? what'd be the
ArPharazonV: her good character anyway
that a new elven colony could set up in Ithilien. They had the desire
to aid the forest that had been harmed there but had a chance if they
VardaValar1: To be herself.
karakedi25: though they thought of themselves as temporary, I believe
VardaValar1: I found no comment to that effect.
VardaValar1: It was called a new colony.
VardaValar1: Legolas was temporary, but not the colony he founded.
karakedi25: do you think they might have intended eventually to sail west?
VardaValar1: It is said that the silvan elves remained in Middle-earth.
VardaValar1: If they made the mistake of going too close to the sea, they would, otherwise not.
karakedi25: they were Eldar, so they had the right
VardaValar1: Yes, they had the right, but not the inclination.
would the Silvans be as troubled by the ocean as Legolas? After all,
Legolas was Sindarin, of the people of Thingol, who had some experience
with the sea and the Ainur...
karakedi25: once again, they were Eldar, so I'd guess yes
ArPharazonV: I always thought it was his Sindarin blood that made him particularly "vulnerable" to the effect of the sea
ArPharazonV: I don't see why all the Eldar would be
Eonwe Valar: I got the impression it was more or less any of the non-Noldor Eldar.
karakedi25: as you say, they would have to be exposed to the sea
Silvans would be less troubled by the sea than a full Sindarin, as they
were of the Teleri, the sea elves, who only needed to look at the sea
for the longing to hit.
karakedi25: the silvans were teleri too, no?
ArPharazonV: they were, but they had never come further west than the misty mountains I think
karakedi25: indeed, so they were never exposed
VardaValar1: The Noldor were always troubled, but to a lesser extent, and therefore more able to control it like a vaccination.
VardaValar1: The silvans were a mix, but mostly Teleri. Being inland
wood elves, they tended not to be exposed to the sea, as Indis said.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, I recall the Silvans being all Teleri.
Eonwe Valar: Unless by "mix" you're referring also to the Sindarins who in later ages became their kings and chieftains.
ArPharazonV: where does this Eldarin fascination with the sea come from anyway?
Eonwe Valar: One need only open their Sil to find out :}
ArPharazonV: I remember it being to do with waiting by the shores for
the Valar to return for them, concerning the Teleri and the Sindar
FladrifV: namarie all
ArPharazonV: but as I said, the Silvans would not be troubled by that
ArPharazonV: namarie Flad
Eonwe Valar: Well, just found refernce to "these were for the most part
of the kindred of the Tleri" so I guess the "mix" does fit.
karakedi25: namarie, Fladriv
Eonwe Valar: Take care Fladrif.
FladrifV: do not feel discouraged, keep challanging me with chess :-)
ArPharazonV: would the Avari be troubled by the sea? would Estarion for that matter?
VardaValar1: Yes, they could be.
VardaValar1: Avari are as much silvans as the others, just didn't head for the sea.
FladrifV has left the room.
karakedi25: they're not Eldar, so didn't have the call of Orome in their blood perhaps
VardaValar1: They may have a little more resistance, as they showed more resistance to the idea from the start.
VardaValar1: Sindar were not Eldar.
Eonwe Valar: Silvans were Eldar.
VardaValar1: Orome called everyone.
karakedi25: of course they were
Eonwe Valar: All Elves who went on the march were Eldar.
karakedi25: but those who responded might have more of the call
VardaValar1: Ok, there were two definitions of Eldar. :-)
karakedi25: the one I'm familiar with is those who followed Orome, whether they got very far or not
ArPharazonV: anyway, as interesting as this is I do need to get to sleep
Eonwe Valar: Eldar
was the name Oromë gave the Elves in their tongue when he found them,
but afterwards it was only used of the Elves who took up the Great
ArPharazonV: maybe I'll write another post tomorrow, but for now I'm saving and sending
ArPharazonV: and this is an interesting topic so I'm counting on more than my own transcript!
Eonwe Valar: I did post to the Rp
, by the way :}
ArPharazonV: I read it when you said :-)
karakedi25: yes, you really laid into Calion
VardaValar1: Aye :-)
Eonwe Valar: OK :} Thought it might've got lost in the discussion at the time.
ArPharazonV: only in thought
ArPharazonV: the comments he made were not that bad
VardaValar1: It did get lost in the chat
ArPharazonV: just formal
VardaValar1: Examining this elf of Mirkwood with a stern eye, his voice held a cold ring he could not hide as he spoke.
karakedi25: if Auros talked that way to Meren, it would chill her
ArPharazonV: Calion's used to it :-)
VardaValar1: He hasn't been talking to Fainan like that.
ArPharazonV: Calion's this close to actually becoming amused by Auros' comments like this...
Eonwe Valar: Calion and Auros had a problem between them quite early on.
VardaValar1: I can see that happening.
VardaValar1: *cough* Helvy *cough*
ArPharazonV: anyway, saving and sending
karakedi25: Calion has a good deal of arrogance of his own
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar.
VardaValar1: Aye, they both do, makes it entertaining.
ArPharazonV: Calion's like me. Hard to admit he's wrong.
ArPharazonV (8:06:15 PM): saved [Note: times in CDT, add one hour for EDT which is Valar Standard Time
VardaValar1 (8:06:34 PM): Hard for anyone to admit they are wrong, but it's needed for growth.
VardaValar1 (8:06:57 PM): At least admit to oneself that he/she's been walking the wrong path and move to the right one.
VardaValar1 (8:07:22 PM): After committing a lot to that path, it's very difficult. Ask Galadriel. :-)
ArPharazonV (8:07:51 PM): I as a person absolutely hate displays of
arrogance, which is part of the reason Calion has trouble with Auros...
and yet, I have a history of displaying it myself
ArPharazonV (8:08:17 PM): maybe that makes me a bit of a hypocrit.... or maybe it's an admittance of my own flaw
VardaValar1 (8:08:33 PM): We often dislike in others the showing of
something we dislike in ourselves. Edifying to notice the feeling.
ArPharazonV (8:08:39 PM): Calion's largely based on me, I never set down a personality for him so he's like me in many ways
VardaValar1 (8:09:05 PM): I like to make characters. They will have some basis in a part of ourselves, as that is what we know.
ArPharazonV (8:09:35 PM): saved
ArPharazonV (8:09:37 PM): *sent
VardaValar1 (8:09:47 PM): It may be what we see, or wish for, or something we do that we like or don't like.
karakedi25 (8:09:48 PM): thank you, ArPharazon
VardaValar1 (8:09:51 PM): Thank you!
ArPharazonV (8:10:37 PM): Namarie all, looking forward to reading the rest of this meeting!
Eonwe Valar (8:10:57 PM): Take care :}
karakedi25 (8:11:09 PM): namarie
ArPharazonV (8:11:22 PM) has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (8:13:21 PM): Auros may have some characteristics from me,
but mostly he's a Noldo. he has Noldorin pride, so we know what that
Eonwe Valar (8:13:58 PM): I didn't focus on basing his character on any person so much as I worked on him as his own character.
Eonwe Valar (8:15:09 PM): I certainly wouldn't say Auros is based too much on myself :}
Eonwe Valar (8:15:39 PM): I couldn't be that arrogant if I wanted to :}
Eonwe Valar (8:17:07 PM): Well, I suppose with free will that technically I *could*, but yeah, Auros is Auros and I am me :}
Eonwe Valar (8:18:31 PM): And the chat seems to have died off, so I shall bang the gavel now.
karakedi25 (8:18:51 PM): thanks for the fun, all
Eonwe Valar (8:18:56 PM): *bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar (8:19:06 PM): Aftermeeting :}
Eonwe Valar (8:19:14 PM): Take care Indis :} Glad you had fun :}
karakedi25 (8:19:40 PM): sure--good discussion
VardaValar1 (8:19:45 PM): ohhh, after-meeting!
VardaValar1 (8:19:50 PM): *stretch*
VardaValar1 (8:20:17 PM): Aye, Fainan is her own self, not me. But fun to play.
Eonwe Valar (8:20:30 PM): Aye.
VardaValar1 (8:20:45 PM): I've met you. I'd rather hang out with you than Auros. :-)
Eonwe Valar (8:20:54 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (8:21:07 PM): But Auros is interesting and just fine for Fainan to hang out with.
Eonwe Valar (8:21:30 PM): I probably haven't done a good job yet of
showing Auros' more,... shall we say reasonable. side,.. yet.
VardaValar1 (8:22:10 PM): He seems to be a logical sort, very focused. Fainan likes and admires him.
Eonwe Valar (8:22:27 PM): I've attempted to show his thought in some cases, to let the reader know he does actually *think* :}
VardaValar1 (8:22:40 PM): She is also in bodyguard mode for him and would take an arrow for him.
VardaValar1 (8:22:47 PM): You did that well.
Eonwe Valar (8:22:59 PM): He's not blindly guided by his arrogance, though it comes through in his interactions.
VardaValar1 (8:23:14 PM): He has pride, but he's not blinded by it.
VardaValar1 (8:24:15 PM): Good comment, that Auros realizes the Mirkwood elves had caused problems through overkindness.
VardaValar1 (8:24:39 PM): That would make him feel a need to be more disciplined than they were.
VardaValar1 (8:24:54 PM): Fainan has that failing.
Eonwe Valar (8:25:02 PM): Compare that to certain Noldorin princes, who
acted and reacted without considering the consequences of their words,
dividing those who should be united against Morgoth in the First Age.
VardaValar1 (8:25:30 PM): True. They had an awful lot of pride, a bit much on the self-side.
Eonwe Valar (8:29:32 PM): Trying to resist the urge to spill the beans
too much about hints to Auros' history that are yet to come in
VardaValar1 (8:30:11 PM): Go do something else. :0
Eonwe Valar (8:30:15 PM): :}
Eonwe Valar (8:30:25 PM): Looking at the Games Page right now actually :}
VardaValar1 (8:30:27 PM): I'm back on the Rules/CoC page, fixing it.
VardaValar1 (8:30:32 PM): There you go. :-)
Eonwe Valar (8:30:33 PM): By the way, Indis..
Eonwe Valar (8:30:38 PM): If you're still here?
karakedi25 (8:30:43 PM): I am.
VardaValar1 (8:30:47 PM): Hiya
Eonwe Valar (8:31:05 PM): About the problems you said the Games Page had.
karakedi25 (8:31:18 PM): no doubt I got it wrong.
VardaValar1 (8:31:35 PM): It did have problems on links. We're working on them.
Eonwe Valar (8:32:20 PM): As a general rule (only one exception being
the Old Tourney Page) and page that loads with its own window is a page
maintained by someone else. I'm guessing some of these loaded into the
same window, one over the other, so when you said "nothing happened"
you missed this.
karakedi25 (8:32:48 PM): I didn't see anything happen...maybe I missed something
Eonwe Valar (8:32:52 PM): Did you take that into consideration?
Eonwe Valar (8:33:34 PM): OK. If you would mind trying again for me I'd
appreciate it. They work for me as I described, but I want to make sure
they are working that way for everyone.
karakedi25 (8:33:42 PM): I'm sure I got something wrong. All I can say is--in my ignorance--I didn't see anything happen.
VardaValar1 (8:34:37 PM): Try a walk-through with us so we can see what is going on.
karakedi25 (8:34:41 PM): Which would be an example that I should try?
VardaValar1 (8:34:43 PM): If you have problems, others will.
Eonwe Valar (8:35:06 PM): Go to the Games Page and do the "You know you're in Valar when" link.
Eonwe Valar (8:35:24 PM): That's the first problem you seem to have had.
Eonwe Valar (8:35:37 PM): Or at least the first in the list.
karakedi25 (8:35:41 PM): I still get a broken link
Eonwe Valar (8:36:29 PM): Ok, that's fine.
Eonwe Valar (8:36:37 PM): Now select the link to the Tolkien Site.
Eonwe Valar (8:37:06 PM): Without closing the window for the "You know you're in Valar when.."
Eonwe Valar (8:37:20 PM): Then check the window again.
karakedi25 (8:37:22 PM): oh, I closed it. Let me try again
Eonwe Valar (8:37:43 PM): Actually, trying both ways is a good test too.
karakedi25 (8:37:51 PM): Tolkien site comes up
Eonwe Valar (8:38:13 PM): Is that in the same window as the "You know you're in Valar when" came up in?
karakedi25 (8:38:26 PM): yes
Eonwe Valar (8:38:36 PM): ok, now try the lorebook link without closing that window.
karakedi25 (8:39:05 PM): also came up over the Tolkien site
Eonwe Valar (8:39:20 PM): ok, good.
Eonwe Valar (8:39:31 PM): Now try each with closing the windows after each.
karakedi25 (8:40:14 PM): the latter two work fine. you know... does not
karakedi25 (8:40:30 PM): it's a 404 message
Eonwe Valar (8:40:36 PM): It opens the window but is still the broken link.
karakedi25 (8:40:51 PM): yes
Eonwe Valar (8:41:04 PM): ok, so that's working fine for now.
Eonwe Valar (8:41:22 PM): Just gotta fix the "You know etc." page/link.
karakedi25 (8:41:38 PM): Unless it's only not working for me.
Eonwe Valar (8:42:28 PM): No, that page is not working in general for some reason.
Eonwe Valar (8:42:49 PM): That will be worked on, but it's separate from the Games Page.
karakedi25 (8:43:53 PM): need anything else?
Eonwe Valar (8:43:59 PM): Might even just be the link on the Games Page
if a change was made and other links on Varda's pages for it are
Eonwe Valar (8:44:32 PM): That pretty much covered it. The rest are pretty much in the process of being fixed already :}
karakedi25 (8:44:39 PM): ok
Eonwe Valar (8:44:43 PM): Thanks for your help.
karakedi25 (8:50:14 PM): you're welcome
Eonwe Valar (8:50:42 PM): Link fixed.
VardaValar1 (8:51:43 PM): Thanks, Eonwe :-)
Eonwe Valar (8:52:31 PM): MP :}
karakedi25 (8:52:59 PM): Member of Parliament?
Eonwe Valar (8:53:17 PM): My Pleasure :}
karakedi25 (8:53:42 PM): ah, will have to start using that
VardaValar1 (8:56:07 PM): Rules and CoC page reformatted, re-navigated, a few corrections.
karakedi25 (8:56:17 PM): nice
VardaValar1 (8:56:29 PM): Stll could use more updating, but usable
karakedi25 (8:56:31 PM): is that the one that's blue on black?
VardaValar1 (8:56:38 PM): Refresh the page, and yes.
VardaValar1 (8:56:46 PM): That went with the old guild page colors.
VardaValar1 (8:57:14 PM): Elatan wrote that in Diablo 1 days.
VardaValar1 (8:57:23 PM): So it had the old style.
karakedi25 (8:58:23 PM): very hard to read
VardaValar1 (8:58:40 PM): Aye
VardaValar1 (8:59:08 PM): I put in the yellow page style. Meant to be like reading an old book, easy on the eyes.
VardaValar1 (8:59:18 PM): I found black on white less comfortable.
karakedi25 (8:59:49 PM): still got a 404 for You Know When...
VardaValar1 (8:59:50 PM): Showing for you?
VardaValar1 (9:00:06 PM): Did you refresh it?
karakedi25 (9:00:15 PM): much better
karakedi25 (9:00:22 PM): no, I closed the tab
karakedi25 (9:00:48 PM): OK working now
karakedi25 (9:00:55 PM): black on yellow much better
VardaValar1 (9:01:00 PM): It came up for me.
karakedi25 (9:01:25 PM): yes, I refreshed the game page and then linked. Its fine now
VardaValar1 (9:01:27 PM): The blues are supposed to be browns now. The
blue and purple links tell you it's from older programming, not yet
VardaValar1 (9:01:32 PM): Good to hear!
VardaValar1 (9:01:56 PM): Lore Book is coming up fine too now.
karakedi25 (9:03:38 PM): seems to be all fixed :-)
Eonwe Valar (9:04:47 PM): Hmm, for some reason I thought the Sorting
ability of the Members table was still broken, but it looks to be
Eonwe Valar (9:05:32 PM): Either way, I'm changing how that's interfaced with, and changing the menu with it.
VardaValar1 (9:06:13 PM): Indis, are you in LotRO?
Eonwe Valar (9:06:15 PM): Not too drastic changes on the menu (from the
user's side), but it's changing once I get everything working for it
VardaValar1 (9:06:31 PM): I was just trying to spot the sortable tables.
VardaValar1 (9:06:40 PM): That would be useful on the Membership page.
Eonwe Valar (9:06:42 PM): Sortable tables are broken still.
VardaValar1 (9:06:49 PM): ok
Eonwe Valar (9:07:08 PM): The individual WoW and LotRO tables, that is. The major member games table works.
VardaValar1 (9:07:30 PM): Thanks for linking to the framed version of the Tolkien Site!
VardaValar1 (9:07:47 PM): I had thoughts of removing those links on the splash page.
Eonwe Valar (9:07:49 PM): Although it doesn't seem to be my most
up-to-date version, which unfortunately means it's not worth fixing
right this second :}
VardaValar1 (9:08:08 PM): eep! What happened to your up to date version?
Eonwe Valar (9:08:21 PM): It's in XML and the current version isn't in xml :}
VardaValar1 (9:08:28 PM): tired, dropping hyphens
VardaValar1 (9:08:42 PM): Just not uploaded yet?
Eonwe Valar (9:09:22 PM): A form of it is working, but some work I'm
doing on it to make it better (in my opinion at least) is involved in
the menu changes, so both have to go up together.
VardaValar1 (9:10:09 PM): joy
Eonwe Valar (9:10:22 PM): It's *almost* done.
VardaValar1 (9:10:38 PM): Cool :-)
VardaValar1 (9:11:10 PM): I'll have the Tolkien Site whipped into shape in oh about two hundred years.
VardaValar1 (9:11:18 PM): Not long, elvishly speaking.
karakedi25 (9:11:22 PM): haha
Eonwe Valar (9:11:39 PM): :}
karakedi25 (9:18:07 PM): impressive work, you two
Eonwe Valar (9:18:25 PM): A long ways for me to go still, hehe.
Eonwe Valar (9:18:49 PM): Thank you though :}
karakedi25 (9:18:55 PM): you're welcome
karakedi25 (9:19:04 PM): lots of dedication there
VardaValar1 (9:19:36 PM): Now you know how we got Valar honor. We're crazy. :-)
Eonwe Valar (9:19:43 PM): :}
karakedi25 (9:19:46 PM): is that what it takes?
karakedi25 (9:20:01 PM): in that case, I'm qualified :p
Eonwe Valar (9:20:04 PM): Hehe
Menelvagor Valar (9:20:46 PM): I'm qualified for Valar honor... at times ^^
VardaValar1 (9:20:50 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (9:20:59 PM): You made it to Maia, good buddy. : )
Menelvagor Valar (9:21:04 PM): usually I'm content with Maia though :-)
Menelvagor Valar (9:21:29 PM): Still... haven't quite given up on making Vala one day *smile*
VardaValar1 (9:21:39 PM): Don't give up. : )
Menelvagor Valar (9:21:46 PM): nevah!
VardaValar1 (9:22:12 PM): Never give up. Never surrrender.
Menelvagor Valar (9:22:12 PM): hmmm...
VardaValar1 (9:22:29 PM): Or however they said it in Galaxy Quest. :-)
Menelvagor Valar (9:22:48 PM): I was just thinking, aside from my
undying and unyielding aspirations, what exactly did I do to make Maia?
Menelvagor Valar (9:22:57 PM): By Grab'Thar's Hammer!
Eonwe Valar (9:23:01 PM): Commitment of some sort I assume :}
Menelvagor Valar (9:23:23 PM): I guess :-)
Menelvagor Valar (9:23:35 PM): Must be having to do something with the forum :-)
Menelvagor Valar (9:23:51 PM): ack.
VardaValar1 (9:23:52 PM): You made the Forum
VardaValar1 (9:23:59 PM): You show up for meetings a lot
Menelvagor Valar (9:24:00 PM): that sentence sounds so horribly wrong :P
VardaValar1 (9:24:11 PM): You try to help out in a lot of games.
Menelvagor Valar (9:24:26 PM): I've been quite slackish in meetings for the past year or so though.
VardaValar1 (9:24:33 PM): You're back
VardaValar1 (9:24:37 PM): You were working during meetings.
Menelvagor Valar (9:24:45 PM): Not exactly ^^
Menelvagor Valar (9:24:55 PM): Just couldn't be bothered to turn on my laptop :P
VardaValar1 (9:25:13 PM): I see a long list of stuff you did for the Tolkien Site.
Menelvagor Valar (9:25:17 PM): Now that I have AIM on my main comp again, it'll improve for sure :-)
VardaValar1 (9:25:26 PM): Articles, Poems, Stories, Humor
Menelvagor Valar (9:25:31 PM): Yeah, I suppose.
VardaValar1 (9:25:33 PM): You also were doing the Humor page.
VardaValar1 (9:25:39 PM): So you had two web sections.
Menelvagor Valar (9:27:46 PM): september 2003... forum has been up that long ... wow :-)
Menelvagor Valar (9:28:18 PM): august even.
karakedi25 (9:29:15 PM): impressive
Menelvagor Valar (9:29:30 PM): roleplay has been running since march 2004.
Menelvagor Valar (9:29:49 PM): I remember well why I created the forum.
Menelvagor Valar (9:30:13 PM): Back in those days I thought the Yahoo Discussion Board was so messy.
Eonwe Valar (9:33:29 PM): We had some great conversations there, though :}
Menelvagor Valar (9:33:47 PM): Undoubtedly :-)
Menelvagor Valar (9:34:07 PM): And I have been part of some of them.
Menelvagor Valar (9:34:20 PM): Unfortunately, that didn't really transfer to the new forum :-(
VardaValar1 (9:34:25 PM): It is messy. It is also still up, the Yahoo board.
VardaValar1 (9:34:41 PM): I didn't want to lose those chats.
VardaValar1 (9:34:47 PM): I keep it clean of spam.
Eonwe Valar (9:36:28 PM): We just need some of those same kinds of great questions and discussions to get started.
VardaValar1 (9:37:04 PM): We need to start earlier while Europe is
awake. They are dead by Tolkien time, and not enough US folk on.
Eonwe Valar (9:37:10 PM): Maybe not the exact same questions, as that
would get dull :} But we can't have exhausted every question there is.
Menelvagor Valar (9:37:26 PM): Actually...
Menelvagor Valar (9:37:37 PM): I was thinking just that for my anniversary...
Eonwe Valar (9:38:19 PM): Sorry guys, I need to go afk for a stretch of time.
VardaValar1 (9:38:22 PM): Scat!
Eonwe Valar (9:38:45 PM): have fun all in wherever you focus your attentions for the rest of the night :}
VardaValar1 (9:39:03 PM): You too :-)
VardaValar1 (9:39:08 PM): Namarie, Eonwe!
Menelvagor Valar (9:39:18 PM): I was thinking to have my anniversary
instead of the meeting, or at least keep the business part as short as
VardaValar1 (9:40:35 PM): We keep saying we are going to keep the business short, then it goes long.
Menelvagor Valar (9:48:25 PM): this time I intend to keep things short :-)
VardaValar1 (9:51:35 PM): You maybe. But there are other people. :-)
Menelvagor Valar (9:53:13 PM): True :-)
Menelvagor Valar (9:53:34 PM): But then again, I could stuff everything into membership news and push everything else back ^^
VardaValar1 (10:21:27 PM): Namarie for now!
karakedi25 (10:21:47 PM): namarie
Menelvagor Valar (10:21:51 PM): Namarie!
karakedi25 (10:21:53 PM): and namarie from me too
karakedi25 (10:21:55 PM): sleep well