Valar Guild

February 22, 2009 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (9)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, arwenv1, CaranthirV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, GwaihirValar, Farmer Maggot-(V)/thesirg3, VardaValar1 (presiding)
    Gilraen-(V) over-the-shoulder

Meeting begins
    World of Goo
    Day of Defeat: Source
    Wheels of Salvation
    Lord of the Rings Online
    World of Warcraft: servers Lothar, Uldaman, Argent Dawn
    Favorite classes in games
    Tolkien rp
    Choice of the Half-elven and how it affected Elrond's children.
    Meetings that might be possible in the Halls of Mandos.
    LotRO: Caranthir and Varda met up in LotRO with others.
    WoW: Eonwe went in, may have seen Eowyn

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
thesirg3 has entered the room.
fladrifv: AIya!
Eonwe Valar: Heya all.
thesirg3: Greetings
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: just about to kill a few horsemen in naxx
ArPharazonV: will be with you shortly
ArPharazonV: *plays waiting music*
Eonwe Valar: My clock still says 6 minutes to meeting time, so you've got that much before we begin at least :}
CaranthirV has entered the room.
CaranthirV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya Caranthir
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
CaranthirV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya Varda
VardaValar1: Heya. Caranthir and I are in LotRO at the same time. : )
Eonwe Valar: Cool :}
arwenv1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arwen
VardaValar1: Invites completed.

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Glad to see you all here. :-)
VardaValar1: Membership report:
VardaValar1: Not completely sure, but we seem to have lost Luthien-(T) after last meeting, but she will be leaving her Tolkien Site work with us at least for now.
ArPharazonV: ...that bad? all I thought was that she wouldn't join the forum
ArPharazonV: judging from the transcript, that is
VardaValar1: That bad.
VardaValar1: Emailed.
ArPharazonV: ouch!
VardaValar1: Menel and I apparently over-reacted, in misunderstanding.
ArPharazonV: 's too bad
VardaValar1: That understandably upset her, and that was that.
ArPharazonV: read the transcript pretty detailed, it did seem like a bit of a misunderstanding
VardaValar1: Aye.
ArPharazonV: hate it when those screw up things
Eonwe Valar: Happens to the best of us.
VardaValar1: In other membership news,
VardaValar1: my household group has been offline for several days during an upgrade to fiber-optic.
VardaValar1: We're back and it seems to have speeded us up quite a bit.
VardaValar1: Only problem is that Eowyn is still offline on her wireless laptop.
Eonwe Valar: Internet at the speed of light now? :}
VardaValar1: Fixing that may cause some more strange happenings, so bear with us. : )
Eonwe Valar: I can't help but see the connection :}
VardaValar1: Oh the puns. : ) hehehe
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, that last one just slipped out, wasn't intended :}
VardaValar1: Any other membership news, besides I should quit being shy of putting out a recruiting message? : )
VardaValar1: You're on a roll.
VardaValar1: Good to see Caranthir and Farmer back with us today!
VardaValar1: and Arwen : )
VardaValar1: And the pillars of the chat room: Eonwe, Phar, and Fladrif

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Humorous art by Maedhros, for LotRO.
VardaValar1: He shows his hobbit character facing a goblin:
VardaValar1: It's the second one here:
VardaValar1: We have two stories up by Jay of Lasgalen:
VardaValar1: "Messengers From the West"
VardaValar1: This is one that might have happened. : )
VardaValar1: "The Road Not Taken"
VardaValar1: Elrond's twin sons try to figure out the choice of the Half-elven for themselves. Could make a good Tolkien topic.
VardaValar1: Has anyone looked at any of these and have a comment?
Eonwe Valar: Not I, yet.
VardaValar1: The comic is quick anyway. The two stories are short.
Eonwe Valar: Doesn't look like either is too long.
VardaValar1: Messengers is a drabble, so it's 100 words. A challenge form.
VardaValar1: Aye.
VardaValar1: I am supposed to remember to hook the stories, poems, etc to the forum links for comments. Reminder here. : )
VardaValar1: Would any of you like the chance to comment on these things? May not even be a wanted link.
VardaValar1: No opinions then?
Eonwe Valar: After a quick read, both seem interesting.
VardaValar1: Yay : )
VardaValar1: Any opinion on the link to the forum for comments on stories, poems, articles, etc?
VardaValar1: Should it be done or not?
Eonwe Valar: None on my part :}
VardaValar1: So a massive non-interest. Probably not worth doing.
VardaValar1: onwards

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: What non-WoW or LotRO games did folks play this past week?
fladrifv: World of GOO!
VardaValar1: hehe
fladrifv: ....sorry for that :-)
thesirg3: Day of Defeat: Source (woo for WoG!)
fladrifv: but I think it is a true masterpiece
ArPharazonV: a bit of WoG demo, but even with Fladrif's screenshots I have trouble getting past the fourth level or so ;-)
fladrifv: I finished the game
fladrifv: after 8 hours playing on one day...
VardaValar1: and eyedrops?
fladrifv: I will also write a review for it
VardaValar1: Yay!
fladrifv: it was yesterday
fladrifv: good thing it will run on any pc
ArPharazonV: also playing a nerve-wrecking little flashgame called Wheels of Salvation today
ArPharazonV: I love the music but apparently it was custom-made and can't be found elsewhere :-)
VardaValar1: That might be a plus, new!
VardaValar1: Farmer, how was Day of Defeat?
thesirg3: It's a fun way to kill half an hour
thesirg3: Typical WW2 FPS
VardaValar1: Just half an hour? : )
thesirg3: Eh, it loses my interest after a while and I go back to coding
VardaValar1: Understood.
VardaValar1: Doing any coding you'd like to pass on news about?
thesirg3: Not really -- just a lot of work
VardaValar1: Getting paid any?
thesirg3: Yeah, full time employment
VardaValar1: Huzzah!
VardaValar1: On to LotRO:
VardaValar1: I've been out of it a bit this week, but it's been going fine. : )
VardaValar1: This morning the Melkorrim played for hours in Eregion, did some leveling:
VardaValar1: Orome, Fundin, Falathar, Angrod, and Aratan.
VardaValar1: Beleg and I were on too, and Ancalagon before we came on.
VardaValar1: Caranthir I think is still in there, could use a fellowship.
CaranthirV: aye
VardaValar1: I may join him after the meeting.
VardaValar1: See if you're still there after then. : )
CaranthirV: i may be. but may to go a parade. it is mardi gras after all :-)
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arien
VardaValar1: Heya Arien!
VardaValar1: O cool! Have a great time!
VardaValar1: Speaking of timing, about to go to WoW reports.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you had some WoW Lothar to tell about?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
Eonwe Valar: This week, I managed to drag my Priest across the line from lvl 67 to lvl 68.
AriehnV: grats grats
Eonwe Valar: Holy Priest :}
VardaValar1: Tough one. Grats. : ) Arwen knows all about that!
Eonwe Valar: I also managed to get my Balance Druid to shuffle across the line to 47.
VardaValar1: Soloing?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: Ouch. Seen Elwing any?
Eonwe Valar: I saw Elwing Saturday, but unfortunately I was heading out and only popped in for inscription research.
Eonwe Valar: I also saw Fangorn pop in for a minute, but missed him.
VardaValar1: Doing ok on herbs?
Eonwe Valar: I could always use more herbs for my Scribe, particularly Outland herbs since he's now 58 :}
VardaValar1: Fangorn and family members and Elwing were gaming a good bit earlier.
VardaValar1: A bit past my wee gatherer. *gulp*
Eonwe Valar: I chatted a bit with Arwen during the week too. My lag since the last patch looks like it's been clearing up a bit the last couple of days.
VardaValar1: yay!
Eonwe Valar: Low level herbs are good too :} Helps me build up inks for those lower-level glyphs :}
VardaValar1: ah good. : )
Eonwe Valar: My happiest achievement during the week, however, was getting two new companions on Auros:
VardaValar1: Anything happen on Uldaman server?
VardaValar1: Pardon, go ahead.
Eonwe Valar: my own robot chicken and especially my own Sprite Darter :} I've been looking for the guys who started that quest for forever :}
ArPharazonV: hehe, near the tauren camp in Feralas, right?
Eonwe Valar: Brings me up to 48 companions :} 2 more and I complete an Achievement :}
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
ArPharazonV: grats
ArPharazonV: still at 33 ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Oh, and I finally did something about getting my fishing up. It's *almost* Outland ready now :}
Eonwe Valar: That's it for Lothar. Unfortunately, I did not make it into Uldaman this week.
VardaValar1: Almost! Have to send you back to WoW. : )
ArPharazonV: get your fishing up, catch mr. pinchy in Outland and the Sewer Rat in Dalaran and you'll have 50 pets *grin*
VardaValar1: Elwing's warlock on Uldaman has been doing better, had a few tips from Sauron. She's moving along well now!
VardaValar1: Gwaihir is messaging, trying to enter the chat room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
GwaihirValar: g'day folks
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Gwaihir!
Eonwe Valar: Heya Gwaihir :}
VardaValar1: Is Gilraen with you?
GwaihirValar: she most certainly is
VardaValar1: Aiya Gilraen!
GwaihirValar: she says 'Aiya' back... or well, she says 'say Aiya for me', but close enough ;-)
VardaValar1: I don't see her AIM name to invite, so hi over the shoulder. : )
VardaValar1: Are you two still playing games, like WoW? : )
GwaihirValar: yep
GwaihirValar: I've actually been debating transferring one of my characters over to Lothar so I'd have a decent level char to play over there...
VardaValar1: Be happy to have lowbies with us from you two also, and might be cheaper that way.
VardaValar1: You're very wecome to come in! /join Valar
Eonwe Valar: You might also be able to put to use some of the lowbie stuff we have sitting in the guild bank, hehe :}
VardaValar1: Aye : )
GwaihirValar: I've leveled so many characters that I have to honestly say I think if I tried to level another - although I do enjoy leveling - I'd probably have to hit something... and my wall wouldn't like that... come to think of it, neither would my fist.
Eonwe Valar: You still have a couple of characters in the guild.
GwaihirValar: Ya, even Vaiwalcin might be too low...
Eonwe Valar: ok
GwaihirValar: I've got a character of every class except warlock above 50 lol
GwaihirValar: 2 hunters, 2 druids even
AriehnV: hehe Gwaihir i know the feeling lol
GwaihirValar: I'm not exactly lacking in characters... :-)
VardaValar1: That's a lot! No wonder you don't want to do it again!
VardaValar1: Do you have a favortie class?
GwaihirValar: Hunter, I'd say... although I love my priest, druid, and warrior too...
VardaValar1: For that matter, curious if all of you here have favorite classes in WoW and LotRO.
GwaihirValar: Gilraen says 'warlock'
Eonwe Valar: Need I really say mine for WoW? :}
VardaValar1: Go hunters! My favorite in both games.
Eonwe Valar: I assumed mine was a given by now :}
VardaValar1: Sure, for the record, you paladin you.
GwaihirValar: Don't forget d2... ;-)
VardaValar1: Sauron agrees on the Warlock in WoW.
Eonwe Valar: OK :} Paladin :} I've got one of each spec on Lothar :}
GwaihirValar: affliction is awesome
GwaihirValar: wow I see
Eonwe Valar: My Ret is my main, my Prot is lvl 58 and is also my scribe :}
VardaValar1: Sure, tell your D2, but mention which game. D2 I also like hunter.
AriehnV: not sure rogue i think , and warrior , after that pala, mage and druid
GwaihirValar: no, I was saying that Eo's favourite was paladin there too ;-)
VardaValar1: True. We all seem to have a favorite play style that tends to carry over.
Eonwe Valar: I've still got my ME mod Dunadan :} lvl 88 :}
VardaValar1: nice! : )
ArPharazonV: druid
ArPharazonV: always the druid
VardaValar1: Mine all timed out, missed by a week. ah well.
ArPharazonV: love the druid, always have, always will
Eonwe Valar: I'm afraid my realm characters are long since deleted.
AriehnV: hehe i know bear :-)
GwaihirValar: ya mine too
VardaValar1: Arwen is always making priests, so that must be her favorite. : )
ArPharazonV: on request I've now become a main bear (tank) role in our raidcommunity in place of the cat (damage) role I started with
Eonwe Valar: Only reason I have my Dunadan still is because he's saved on my hard drive :}
ArPharazonV: so from now on I'm bearing my way through Naxx
VardaValar1: Can we bear it?
AriehnV: :-D grats nice
ArPharazonV: *grin*
GwaihirValar: Gilraen says that she liked sorceresses back in d2, and I have to say she'll probably be a female wizard in d3 lol
VardaValar1: Very good!
ArPharazonV: I still get to mainspec-bid on both dps and tank-loot, so that's good
VardaValar1: Maybe she'd like a spellcaster if you two ever go to LotRO sometime in the next 15 years.
thesirg3: random aside: It's a shame D1 doesn't work on Windows 7, or I'd go back and play that :-(
VardaValar1: We still play D1. Bilbo's necromancer was up earlier today.
VardaValar1: And we still play SC/BroodWar.
Eonwe Valar: (Sorcerer :})
VardaValar1: Sorceress was fun. : )
thesirg3: D1, not D2 :-)
Eonwe Valar: No, I mean there was no Necromancer in D1 :}
VardaValar1: oops
VardaValar1: We do play them all, my error there.
Eonwe Valar: It's ok, we understood :}
VardaValar1: Arien, would you like to give your WoW Argent Dawn report?
AriehnV: If there was one :-( i was very lazy on Argent Dawn this week not to say non active as yet
AriehnV: *slaps herself*
AriehnV: for my excuse i have to say that i revived the Steel bonnets after deciding that a serious raid guild is not the style to play wow for me
AriehnV: and have been recruiting around and looking after the young joiners
AriehnV: and levelling of course but i think after this i ll have a jump to AD :-)
AriehnV: that s all i fear
AriehnV: Phara , have u seen Valandil and Menel this week?
VardaValar1: We kid around a lot in Valar Guild in LotRO and WoW. Doesn't have to be serious.
ArPharazonV: I've seen Valandil in WoW today
ArPharazonV: saw him get an achievement :-)
AriehnV: nah but the guild i had been in with my main characters started raiding a bit more serious and have all the lot and hunt their members into heroics
ArPharazonV: we didn't team up for anything though
ArPharazonV: but he's there!
AriehnV: (*err chase* )=
VardaValar1: Good that they were on!
AriehnV: very nice good good
VardaValar1: Any activity in your Valar branch?
AriehnV: helm is with me in The Steel Bonnets
VardaValar1: If any of them, Helm too, would like to make comments on the Forum or toss in something to the Tolkien or Games sites, they should feel welcome. : )
AriehnV: He has been helping me and several other guildies with rfc
AriehnV: on some new wee alts
AriehnV: wee = little, low level
AriehnV: i ll let him know :-)
VardaValar1: Good deal. : )
VardaValar1: Any further comments or suggestions while we are still in business?
AriehnV: not wow small not on Lotro
AriehnV: Burgler dinged 19 :-)
ArPharazonV: hmm, I'm Thrall away from my war bear :-)
VardaValar1: Grats
AriehnV: nice one
AriehnV: Leave Thrall alone *grr shakes Hammer at druid*
VardaValar1: So that's why they keep coming after Thrall. I saw a lot of dead bodies near him from Alliance.
ArPharazonV: but... bear! I've already got 2 armored bear-mounts, I want my third!
VardaValar1: I feel less annoyed now. : )
ArPharazonV: yeah, it's an achievement
ArPharazonV: kill all 4 leaders and get a mount
AriehnV: yupp indeed
AriehnV: and it wont be easy
AriehnV: Orgri is a pest
ArPharazonV: yeah, we completely wiped on him 2 times already
ArPharazonV: on 2 seperate nights
AriehnV: he is a shammy
ArPharazonV: should really start with him on an unexpected time so as not to alert horde
ArPharazonV: doing him last is a no-go, too many horde aware of your plan
AriehnV: hmmm :-)
AriehnV: some impossible time like at 3 am
AriehnV: well that sort of idea
VardaValar1: (Please whisper Tolkien topic suggestions to me.)

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: In our Tolkien rp game on the forum, Eonwe and Menelvagor are working out a sparring fight scene to put up all at once, and making good progress. : )
VardaValar1: An earlier comment was the question of how the choice of the Half-elven actually affected the four children of Elrond.
VardaValar1: Taking them one at a time:
VardaValar1: Arwen. Comments?
AriehnV: Arwen s choice was bound to her love for aragorn
AriehnV: she ... giving him her love forsook the right to return to Valinor
AriehnV: but as far as i know she still counted as Elven
AriehnV: Elf
ArPharazonV: she gave up her immortality too, I think
ArPharazonV: she did die, 1 year after Aragorn?
VardaValar1: She did, aye.
VardaValar1: The choice of the children of Elrond was to go with Elrond to choose elves, or to remain and choose humans.
AriehnV: i wonder whether their spirits were united then in the Halls of Mandos or whether they would stay seperate until the very last battle
VardaValar1: Until Arwen fell in love with Aragorn, she intended to go to Valinor. Made it even harder for Elrond.
VardaValar1: Arwen chose mortality so as not to be separated from Aragorn. She would join him wherever humans went, but as you said, Arien
VardaValar1: elves and men both went to the Halls of Mandos at physical death.
VardaValar1: They reflected on their lives, then went on to their final destinations when Mandos deemed them ready.
VardaValar1: So perhaps men and elves could meet then? Timeless Halls...
ArPharazonV: one last goodbye
VardaValar1: One could wonder if the Timeless Halls would let them meet from all across time.
VardaValar1: or just at that time, and Timeless only referred to not dying for Valar and elves.
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar.
VardaValar1: And could those in Valinor meet those passing through Mandos' Halls somehow under some conditions?
VardaValar1: Maybe as part of their thinking back over their lives?
VardaValar1: A chance to say good bye, or I'm sorry, or I love you and didn't tell you.
AriehnV: yeah i like that idea
AriehnV: :-)
VardaValar1: It's not said anywhere, but it seems as if it might be consistent with the mythology.
VardaValar1: Tolkien is very big on hints, on purpose, rather than outright statements. Kind of a game.
AriehnV: fits anyway and its nice
VardaValar1: :-)
VardaValar1: This might give Elrond's family a chance to see each other again when they did not expect it.
VardaValar1: Ok, we need someone to write that story. ;-)
VardaValar1: That was Arwen, and her chance to reunite with family.
VardaValar1: What about the choice of Elrohir and Elladan?
VardaValar1: What was it?
VardaValar1: Appendix is helpful here.
VardaValar1: Anyone recollect? (Eonwe is afk for a drink, talk fast before he gets back!)
ArPharazonV: I believe they stayed, but their ultimate fate I do not know
VardaValar1: If they stayed, wouldn't that tell us their ultimate fate?
ArPharazonV: well, yes, but not in as much details as was done for Arwen :-)
VardaValar1: Aye. Teach them not to be main characters!
VardaValar1: The appendix tells us that they stayed as joint lords of Rivendell.
VardaValar1: It must have been for a fair length of time, since
VardaValar1: Celeborn stayed with them.
VardaValar1: Celeborn remained in Middle-earth after Galadriel left, taking care of the Lorien elves.
AriehnV: Elladan and Elrohir followed later to Valinoer
VardaValar1: A number of them moved to southern Mirkwood.
VardaValar1: Arien, where do you find that?
AriehnV: some dark corner of my memory
VardaValar1: Celeborn left to Valinor, after most of the Lorien elves left. Might be where the confusion is.
AriehnV: think its in the appendix somewhere
VardaValar1: This is from the appendix.
VardaValar1: However, if the children of Elrond did not go with him when he sailed, they could not go at all. That would be the moment of decision.
ArPharazonV: well, just because they followed him to Valinor doesn't mean they actually arrived there...
VardaValar1: I found nothing that says they tried to go to Valinor. But maybe you did? I'd like to read it and if true, put it in the site.
VardaValar1: That would be contradictory to the choice they were supposed to make.
VardaValar1: If you run across it, please email me with the source!
VardaValar1: You don't have to dig it out right now. : )
AriehnV: lol i will i was just skimming through the pages
VardaValar1: Cool : )
ArPharazonV: I do know Sam eventually took to the ships, but nothing about the twins...
VardaValar1: Legolas had to make his own ship by the time he went.
VardaValar1: Started running out of ships! : )
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: well, without Cirdan the ship-builder there...
VardaValar1: Interesting that the others were white ships, but the one Legolas made was grey, even though he was of the Teleri group.
VardaValar1: No Cirdan, no ships.
AriehnV: i found this
ArPharazonV: must've ran out of white wood?
VardaValar1: hehe
AriehnV: ????? No mention is made of their final fate. At all. "The end of his sons, Elladan and Elrohir, is not told; they delay their choice, and remain for a while." Letters, #153. It is left for the reader to decide whether they went over Sea or became mortal and died in Middle-Earth. Were They In The Fellowship Of The Ring Movie?
AriehnV: quote from an article by one Tyrellas
ArPharazonV: eh, probably, lots of npcs made their way into the movie as cameos, mostly named by fans at a later date
ArPharazonV: ehrr... npcs?
VardaValar1: Aye. One reason we have to go to the source materiel.
ArPharazonV: not sure what I wanted to call them, but npcs sounds a bit odd
VardaValar1: The appendix proves they did not go with Elrond. And that was the time of choice.
AriehnV: as far as i can see this guy uses the books a lot and is very *fact based*
AriehnV: yep
AriehnV: i have seen they were not with him when they met with Frodo and Sam
AriehnV: guess i mixed something up there that i thought they followed later
ArPharazonV: look at the fellowship in Rivendell, find 2 elves who look alike and the community will dub them Elladan and Elrohir
VardaValar1: Celeborn is mentioned along with them, and that he went on, but no mention is made of the twins going with him.
VardaValar1: The movie had a list of elf pictures saying which was which at one time. Might still be up.
VardaValar1: And Phar, aye. : )
AriehnV: true enough
VardaValar1: Trying to find that cast list. Might have been for a convention.
AriehnV: I like the picture of them on the Anserg page that i gave u the link of
AriehnV: nice drawing
VardaValar1: Aye, well done.
VardaValar1: That page says:
VardaValar1: If Arwen stays in Middle-Earth after Elrond goes, she chooses to become mortal and die. A later quote cited in the Timeline makes it clear that this also applies to Elladan and Elrohir, although it is implied that they may "delay their choice."
VardaValar1: I would like to know where he found the implication that they might be able to delay their choice./
VardaValar1: Also interesting on that page:
VardaValar1: Tolkien is very careful throughout The Lord of the Rings to not refer to Elladan and Elrohir as Elves. In several places (noted in the Timeline) they are distinctly NOT grouped with Legolas when referring to elvish matters or skills. They feel the fear on the Paths of the Dead; they do not see a Nazgûl flying overhead when Legolas can. They are also not referred to as Men/humans.
Eonwe Valar: Interesting indeed.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, am I lagged again this week?
VardaValar1: No. We started reading.
Eonwe Valar: Ok :}
VardaValar1: Arien and I were chatting on the side, instead of in the main room, oops.

VardaValar1: Arien had a question also about her dwarf, Frali, and how he would carry his axe.
VardaValar1: Would he have a shield? Would he wear the axe on his back or side?
Eonwe Valar: That's a good question.
VardaValar1: As a young dwarf, I'm thinking his family and trainers would prefer he carry a shield.
VardaValar1: He could always chunk it after traveling. ; )
Eonwe Valar: Unless he were using a smaller axe that could be used in one hand, chances are good he'd have no shield.
CaranthirV: does he use atwo handed axe or a one hander?
VardaValar1: That is the question, aye.
CaranthirV: yes young dwarves would for the most part likely carry a shield for protection to live through fights to gain experience for future ones
VardaValar1: And I wonder if he might have a smaller throwing axe or two?
VardaValar1: If he has a shield, he probably has a one-handed axe. Possibly easier for a smaller dwarf to handle.
Eonwe Valar: I'm not sure if that would go just for younger Dwarves. Probably depends on the preference of the Dwarf. Thorin, for example, seems to have been using a sword and shield in the War of the Orcs and Dwarves.
AriehnV: ah yes Merry had thorins old shield which he wore as boy
CaranthirV: but did thorin not use a 2 handed axe at the battle of 5 armies?
VardaValar1: Aye, Thorin Oakenshield thought a shield was important enough that he grabbed up a piece of oak to replace his own lost shield.
Eonwe Valar: hmm? I don't think you mean Thorin there Arien :}
AriehnV: err lol aye
VardaValar1: The king's old shield.
AriehnV: meh
AriehnV: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Theoden?
VardaValar1: Similar sound.
AriehnV: aye my bd
Eonwe Valar: NP :}
AriehnV: bad even
VardaValar1: have to look it up, Caranthir. I don't recollect. Got it handy?
CaranthirV: No I'm sorry i left all my books in Baton Rouge since im in new orleans for the holidays
thesirg3 has left the room.
VardaValar1: The movie cast with the elves that I was remembering was a convention, aye.
VardaValar1: Ok, maybe some of the rest of us can find it. : )
Eonwe Valar: Of Dain, who was younger than Thorin at the time (young even in the reckoning of the Dwarves) it only says he had a red axe when he slew Azog.
AriehnV: Thorin fought at the Battle of Azanulbizar in 2799. It was there that he earned the name Oakenshield when his shield was broken and he used the branch of an oak tree in its place.
Eonwe Valar: Some Dwarves were also wielding mattocks in that battle.
Eonwe Valar: Aye Arien.
AriehnV: its a copy paste from
ArPharazonV: "Thorin wielded his axe with mighty strokes, and nothing seemed to harm him." From The Hobbit
ArPharazonV: no mention of a shield so far, seems to imply a 2-hand
ArPharazonV: next mention seems to be the lifting away of Thorin who's pierced with spears
VardaValar1: Thanks. My Hobbit book is missing, one reason my articles from it are not updating. : (
VardaValar1: Sounds like a good guess, Phar. Bet he wished he had a shield, but spears are hard to stop!
ArPharazonV: shield didn't help Boromir
ArPharazonV: did Boromir have a shield in the books?
VardaValar1: That was a lot of opponents too. : )
VardaValar1: um.
Eonwe Valar: I think he had one, aye.I recall it being mentioned in his armaments.
VardaValar1: Back to digging in the books.
Eonwe Valar: Why he wasn't using it that day is beyond me.
ArPharazonV: *grin* I think he leaves his shield behind at the shore in the movie
ArPharazonV: you can see his pack and his shield, and no Boromir, and that'show they know he's after Frodo
AriehnV: Gimli most certainly wielded an axe
AriehnV: but i know he used daggers as well
AriehnV: because of the game he played with Legolas
AriehnV: but there is no mention of a sheild either
AriehnV: i always had the impression it was a two hander but they are a bit clumsy to handle to be honest much slower
AriehnV: and if carried over back to brandish them would make at least one side vulnerable to fatal attacks
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, when did it mention Gimli using daggers?
AriehnV: ah blooming heck it was Legolas
AriehnV: aye he said once *it was knife work up here* but that was the Elf
Eonwe Valar: Ah. That was a long knife, and only one :} The movie gave him two daggers :}
Eonwe Valar: Or two long knives, if you prefer.
AriehnV: i see
AriehnV: guess one handed axe and shield makes more sense
AriehnV: at least at Fralis age
AriehnV: throwing axes , aye , i like the idea and they would be carried over back
ArPharazonV: Legolas and his 2 knives was quite impressive
Eonwe Valar: Boromir did have a shield, mentioned in "The Ring Goes South."
ArPharazonV: Aragorn seemed to have at least one throwing dagger too in the movie :-)
ArPharazonV: perhaps more
VardaValar1: I agree. After seeing it in the movie, it is not so far-fetched to me to use two knives.
Eonwe Valar: That was more of a knife that he happend to throw I think :}
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe, for finding it. I'm still digging. : )
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: not sure if he ever got that knife back
ArPharazonV: he gave it a mighty swing when Lurtz threw it back at him
Eonwe Valar: Gimli bore "a broad-bladed axe"
Eonwe Valar: Seemed to fit nicely on his belt though.
Eonwe Valar: I'm guessing it was big enough to wield with both hands.
ArPharazonV: well, I'm off
ArPharazonV: gotta go to bed
ArPharazonV: saving and sending
VardaValar1: Right on, Eonwe. Found it.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar!
Eonwe Valar: He did. He was cleaning it right at the end of the movie as I recall.
Eonwe Valar: Take care Phar and sleep well :}
ArPharazonV (6:28:12 PM): saved  [Times in CST. Please add one hour for EST.]
Eonwe Valar (6:28:43 PM): A two-handed axe need not be so big that it needs to be strapped across the back. Same with a sword.
VardaValar1 (6:28:47 PM): Gimli: in his belt was a broad-bladed axe.
ArPharazonV (6:29:24 PM): and sent
Eonwe Valar (6:29:42 PM): An axe more than a sword would probably gain more from being wielded with two hands than a sword would, probably.
ArPharazonV (6:30:12 PM): Anduril ended up being pretty big though :)
Eonwe Valar (6:30:14 PM): Emphasis on probably, since I haven't wielded too many war-axes myself :}
VardaValar1 (6:30:39 PM): A staff is good with two hands.
Eonwe Valar (6:30:45 PM): Aye, and Anduril, Glamdring, and Boromir's sword said to be of like make as Anduril, were both worn at the hip.
ArPharazonV (6:31:19 PM): was Anduril worn at the hip? one wouldn't say, from the size of it....
VardaValar1 (6:31:30 PM): Aragorn's sword was most likely a two-hander, not a hand and a half, and he carried no shield. I don't know that it was a two-hander, though.
ArPharazonV (6:31:44 PM): must've dragged on the ground as he walked ;)
VardaValar1 (6:31:52 PM): He was 7 feet tall.
AriehnV (6:32:00 PM): Namarie Phara
ArPharazonV (6:32:04 PM): how tall were his legs, though?
Eonwe Valar (6:32:07 PM): Assuming the movie version is fairly accurate, I think based on my own having handled it, it was hand and a half.
VardaValar1 (6:32:09 PM): Namarie, Phar
ArPharazonV (6:32:14 PM): Namarie
ArPharazonV (6:32:22 PM): want me out of the way with silly comments, eh?
VardaValar1 (6:32:23 PM): Could have been.
VardaValar1 (6:32:32 PM): Not at all. They spice up things. : )
ArPharazonV (6:32:37 PM): Goodnight!
Eonwe Valar (6:32:56 PM): I'm going by the movie replica of Anduril/Narsil and Glamdring, though.
ArPharazonV (6:33:19 PM) has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (6:33:25 PM): Back when I got a chance to feel their weight, they seemed like they'd benefit rom both hands, but sufficient strength could wield with one if necessary.
Eonwe Valar (6:33:36 PM): *benefit from
AriehnV (6:33:54 PM): Hmm where is Helm when u need him grr , he is the weapon specialist
VardaValar1 (6:34:00 PM): Says " a long sword" not "a longsword", which can be different.
Eonwe Valar (6:34:09 PM): Aye.
AriehnV (6:34:09 PM): he used to do historic reenactments
VardaValar1 (6:34:35 PM): Another SCA guy? : )
Eonwe Valar (6:34:43 PM): I'm assuming the LotR movie weaponmasters and blacksmiths knew what they were doing too :}
AriehnV (6:34:55 PM): agreed :-)
VardaValar1 (6:35:33 PM): I'm thinking if Boromir had a shield, and a sword about the fashion of Aragorn's, it was not a two-hander.
VardaValar1 (6:35:46 PM): A hand-and-a-half can be used one or two-handed.
AriehnV (6:35:49 PM): think i ll let Frali use a fairly strong one handed axe with shield and throwing axes , me thinks
Eonwe Valar (6:35:51 PM): Aye
AriehnV (6:35:55 PM): i wondered that
VardaValar1 (6:36:09 PM): Sounds equipped for anything, Arien. : )  Nice.
VardaValar1 (6:36:42 PM): Both Aragorn and Boromir were powerful men, so they might not have had to drop down to longswords.
VardaValar1 (6:36:51 PM): and both were weapons experts.
Eonwe Valar (6:36:59 PM): Aragorn was tall for a man as well as I recall.
VardaValar1 (6:37:08 PM): Aye, 7 foot is plenty tall!
AriehnV (6:37:31 PM): meh three heads higher than i ^^
Eonwe Valar (6:37:33 PM): A two-hander for a 5-foot guy might not be a two-hander for a 7-foot guy/elf :}
VardaValar1 (6:37:48 PM): Aye to that too. : )
VardaValar1 (6:38:19 PM): I'm a monstrous 5' 1 and 1/2"
Eonwe Valar (6:38:36 PM): I had to give more thought to what exactly Auros was using recently two. I came to the conclusion it was hand and a half.
AriehnV (6:38:43 PM): :-D think me is two feet higher :-D
Eonwe Valar (6:38:44 PM): *recently too
AriehnV (6:38:54 PM): two inches
AriehnV (6:38:58 PM): oops
VardaValar1 (6:39:02 PM): Tall!
fladrifv (6:39:16 PM): only 7 feet?
fladrifv (6:39:19 PM): *grin*
Eonwe Valar (6:39:20 PM): I'm somewhere between 5'8'' and 5'9''. Don't remember anymore :}
AriehnV (6:39:36 PM): hehe five feet three inches if i remember correctly
VardaValar1 (6:39:41 PM): Our Sauron is 5' 11" inches, same height as Orlando Bloom.   ;-)
Eonwe Valar (6:40:01 PM): Gee, in the movie Sauron looked so much taller :} (ok, bad joke, I know :})
VardaValar1 (6:40:06 PM): lol
VardaValar1 (6:40:18 PM): You look tall next to me, Eonwe. I still have pictures.
fladrifv (6:40:22 PM): I looked tall enough in the movie...
VardaValar1 (6:40:31 PM): You sure did, Flad. : )
fladrifv (6:41:29 PM): I cant even reach that low as 7 feet.... lucky orcs
VardaValar1 (6:41:34 PM): hehe
fladrifv (6:41:34 PM): I became to stiff
VardaValar1 (6:41:49 PM): Long arms and fingers though! And just step on them.
fladrifv (6:42:37 PM): oh yeah that was it
VardaValar1 (6:42:40 PM): hehe
AriehnV (6:42:40 PM): hehe :-) well got to go :-) getting too sleepy and unconcentrated
arwenv1 (6:42:43 PM): hehe
Eonwe Valar (6:42:47 PM): Sleep well Arien :}
fladrifv (6:42:53 PM): we used to play who throws them furthest together with fangorn
fladrifv (6:42:57 PM): namarie Arien
VardaValar1 (6:42:57 PM): *swings shiny gavel*
VardaValar1 (6:43:01 PM): *bangggg*

VardaValar1 (6:43:06 PM): After-meeting!
AriehnV (6:43:09 PM): NN :-) Namarie !
VardaValar1 (6:43:13 PM): Give Arien a chance to go. ; )
arwenv1 (6:43:13 PM): NN :)
VardaValar1 (6:43:20 PM): Namarie!
AriehnV (6:43:21 PM) has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (6:43:29 PM): mara mesta I think is the phrase I'm looking for :}
VardaValar1 (6:43:33 PM): Arwen, hi there!
arwenv1 (6:43:40 PM): Hi There!
VardaValar1 (6:43:41 PM): A good Sindarin phrase. : )
VardaValar1 (6:44:52 PM): So, Caranthir and Eonwe. Do we want to try some "lowbie" fellowship runs in LotRO?
CaranthirV (6:45:11 PM): like in the 40's?
VardaValar1 (6:45:16 PM): Caranthir will be running out of time pretty fast.
Eonwe Valar (6:45:22 PM): Hmm, I was debating between WoW and webwork :}
VardaValar1 (6:45:24 PM): Thought you were in the high 30's?
CaranthirV (6:45:34 PM): i hit 40 during the meeting :-)
VardaValar1 (6:45:35 PM): Sure, I can bring in my dwarf guardian.
VardaValar1 (6:45:40 PM): Congrats!!
Eonwe Valar (6:45:42 PM): Also, I'm expecting to be called from the keyboard anytime now.
VardaValar1 (6:45:48 PM): Let's you out, Eonwe. : )
VardaValar1 (6:45:59 PM): How long do you think we have, Caranthir?
CaranthirV (6:47:02 PM): im not going anywhere
CaranthirV (6:47:09 PM): so i have plenty of time
VardaValar1 (6:48:24 PM): What about Mardis Gras?
GwaihirValar (6:48:26 PM): sry for being so quiet, we've been alternating between reading and gaming(we got Gilraen's lock to 80 and have been trying to get her some emblems)... now we're afking for dinner :-)
CaranthirV (6:48:34 PM): decided not to go
CaranthirV (6:48:47 PM): still have plenty of parades tomorrow and tuesday
VardaValar1 (6:48:53 PM): awww
VardaValar1 (6:49:03 PM): We'll slaughter things in your honor. : )
Eonwe Valar (6:49:14 PM): :}
VardaValar1 (6:49:18 PM): Congrats to Gilraen!
VardaValar1 (6:49:34 PM): Dinner is a good idea. I may grab something whilst booting up.
GwaihirValar (6:49:36 PM): I shall tell her, however she's waiting upstairs impatiently for me to come help make dinner... so I'd best get to her :-)
VardaValar1 (6:49:43 PM): Tell her at dinner! : )
GwaihirValar (6:49:46 PM): hehe will do
VardaValar1 (6:49:50 PM): Namarie and bon appetit!
GwaihirValar (6:49:57 PM): and to you as well!
GwaihirValar (6:50:01 PM): afk now :-)
Eonwe Valar (6:50:12 PM): Bon apetit :}
VardaValar1 (6:50:36 PM): Eowyn was on WoW checking her WoW mail earlier, Eonwe. Might see her there.
Eonwe Valar (6:50:47 PM): ok