Valar Guild

August 23, 2009 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (10)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, arwenv1, Eonwe Valar (presiding), fladrifv, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, luthienathariel, Menelvagor Valar, pallandovalar, Varda Valar

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership happenings:
    Rosie-(V), new Full Member
    Elwing-(V)
    Ar-Pharazon-(V)
Web
    Stories
    Games page
    Article
Gaming:
    WoW Cataclysm
    LotRO
    Red Alert 3
    Battle for Middle-earth
    Eve Online (during After Meeting)
Tolkien:
    Linguistics conference report by Luthien-(T)
    Short RP talk
    Pallando the Blue Wizard
After-meeting:
    A word for "please" in any Elvish language, found a workaround, pronunciation.
       URL's for linquistics scattered throughout Tolkien and the After-meeting.
    EVE Online
    RP talk more in-depth

Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
arwenv1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
fladrifv: Aiya
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Varda.
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: Just now updated the News page.
VardaValar1: Be sure to reload. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: OK, shall we begin the meeting?
VardaValar1: It's that time, aye
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Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: Rosie, daughter of Oromë who has been with us for many years as a Member of Honor, took her test this week to become a Full Member. Congratulations to her :}
VardaValar1: She's quite delightful to chat with, witty and quick. : )
VardaValar1: Actually reads the chat in-game. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: welcome Rosie!
ArPharazonV: or well...
ArPharazonV: welcome to full membership, anyway
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: It also turns out Elwing's birthday was this week, so Happy Birthday Elwing :}
VardaValar1: Yay!
ArPharazonV: happy b-day!
Eonwe Valar: Any other Member news?
ArPharazonV: well, there's the sequel to my pc-story last week
ArPharazonV: but it'll take a few minutes to tell
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead Phar :}
ArPharazonV: this monday, my new pc arrived all the way from Sweden from Fladrif, through his girlfriend's parents who live near me
ArPharazonV: the installing went.. reasonable, harddrive and cddrive transferred well, there was a bit of an effort to find a piece to connect the monitors to the monitor-slot because they were different types
ArPharazonV: but we found a piece for that somewhere in a box on the attic so that was allright
ArPharazonV: windows had to reinstall, but that didn't take long, and that night I was ready to play with my new hardware and see how much better my games would become
ArPharazonV: And that's when trouble came. When playing WoW, it would occasionally crash my pc, make my monitor lose signal, freeze or loop the sound, and alltogether forcing me to reboot the pc
pallandovalar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: We tested a great many things, hardware, cards, drivers, WoW settings, but nothing helped
ArPharazonV: and it seemed to be just WoW too, Red Alert 3 ran without problems even at higher settings, but just as I was about to do a full WoW reinstall, I tried installing Battle For Middle-Earth and playing a few levels
ArPharazonV: and in the first level, it crashed also
AriehnV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: so that was an indication that it wasn't just WoW, so we ran another few tests and tried a few more measures, without success
AriehnV: Aiya all :-)
ArPharazonV: finally today trying to downgrade the bios-version on Fladrif's suggestion, which after some problems finally worked but failed to solve the problem
ArPharazonV: so in the end I decided to put the harddrive and cddrives back in the old pc and old hardware, setting the drivers back to what they were not even a week ago... and finished with the job some 20 minutes ago
ArPharazonV: so we had a week's worth of work and ended up exactly where we started
VardaValar1: Just in time to come tell us what happened to you. : )
ArPharazonV: I'm hoping my games will do fine again now, though I might need to throw out the settings folder from WoW again to adjust to the new hardware
ArPharazonV: and now my new pc will have to wait until Fladrif comes to the Netherlands himself in a few months or so :-)
fladrifv: was an interesting yourney indeed
Eonwe Valar: Sorry to hear that Phar.
ArPharazonV: and that was the (partly abridged) story of my pc this week
ArPharazonV: oh, and I need to go back to college in a week, might have to cut the next meeting short, haven't really checked my schedule yet
ArPharazonV: I do know my first class is on Monday but not sure yet at what time
ArPharazonV: and that's my personal news!
Eonwe Valar: Good luck getting that taken care of Phar :}
Eonwe Valar: If there's no other Membership news, we can move to Web.
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Eonwe Valar: OK, Web:
Eonwe Valar: Two new stories for the Story Site.
ArPharazonV: Ah! Yes.... I'll need to leave meetings at midnight or so in the next 2 months
ArPharazonV: gotta get up quite early
ArPharazonV: but we can handle having the transcripts handled by someone else for a while, no doubt
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
Eonwe Valar: Well, one new story and the conclusion of another story.
Eonwe Valar: "A Cat in King Elessar's Court" by Alcardilme-(T).
Eonwe Valar: Chapter 3 of Jay of Lasgalen's "Till Death Us Do Part."
Eonwe Valar: Games Page: You can see what colors I chose for Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 news borders, but nothing else new yet :}
Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Wait
VardaValar1: We have an article also
VardaValar1: by some Eonwe guy
Eonwe Valar: Ack, my apologies.
VardaValar1: Dwarves
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: That's right, hehe :}
ArPharazonV: he writes so much and does so much he's losing track of everything he made?
Eonwe Valar: The Dwarves article now includes information from the HIstory of Middle-Earth series.
Eonwe Valar: I guess so, Phar :}
Eonwe Valar: Take a look when you get a chance. It's full of Dwarfy goodness :}
VardaValar1: All people playing Dwarves should consider it a must-read. : )
ArPharazonV: Heh. My only dwarf is a lvl 10 priest bankalt
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other Web news? :}
VardaValar1: My dwarf guardian read it.
VardaValar1: Done over here.
Eonwe Valar: Ok :} Making sure since I forgot my own article :}
VardaValar1: *chuckles*
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Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
AriehnV: Nice thorogh work Eonwe
AriehnV: just had a fly over
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Arien :}
Eonwe Valar: I'm going to try and keep this first part short.
Eonwe Valar: Blizzcon was this weekend (Friday and Saturday) and turns out some of the WoW expansion rumours were true.
Eonwe Valar: It is called Cataclysm, it does have Deathwing as the primary antagonist, lvl 85 is the new cap, and several others.
Eonwe Valar: New Alliance race is Worgen, Goblins are going to Horde.
VardaValar1: Odd to think of Worgen (werewolves) as part of the Alliance.
ArPharazonV: ehh, they're cursed and think human I believe...
Eonwe Valar: They're cursed humans from the nation of GIlneas, who was part of the Alliance in the Second War.
ArPharazonV: if the Forsaken can join the Horde, why not?
Eonwe Valar: They closed themselves off from the world shortly thereafter.
Eonwe Valar: I'm sure all of us who played WoW have done quests that involve Arugal at this point (Shadowfang Keep).
AriehnV: it seems they were from the small kingdom of Gilneas
VardaValar1: "Arugal must die"
AriehnV: aye it looks it
AriehnV: i killed his avater in grizzly hills as well
Eonwe Valar: The new lore tells us he was a patriot, calling in Worgen similar to why the Night Elf woman did: to defend his homeland.
ArPharazonV: hmm, never played Horde but I think my alliance paladin had a quest there once
ArPharazonV: and I do remember the Grizzly Hills one
AriehnV: aye The Hour of the Worg
Eonwe Valar: Of course things got out of control for him as well, and as the curse began to spread among the human population, he pulled his Worgen back into Shadowfang Keep to try and contain the problem.
AriehnV: i see and Lich King tried to get him under his thumb
Eonwe Valar: Looks like it.
AriehnV: I am looking forward to killing that one *rubs hands*
Eonwe Valar: Moving on with Games features,...
Eonwe Valar: Azeroth will be redone, make use of phasing, and we'll be able to fly there.
ArPharazonV: I've got my misgivings about the revamp, but there's nothing you can do, and maybe I can get used to it...
Eonwe Valar: They're simplifying alot of stats, adding in a new secondary profession (archaeology) which will be used for further advancement of your character at the new level cap.
Eonwe Valar: Also, they're adding in some interesting stuff for Guilds.
Eonwe Valar: A levelling system and talents.
Eonwe Valar: Profession recipes and items that are bind on guild (meaning, if you leave the guild, the recipe or the item reverts back to the guild you got it from).
Eonwe Valar: A supposedly "better" way of looking for guild members.
Eonwe Valar: Those are the Highlights for the new WoW Expansion. We also got a new D3 class, the Monk, and some insight into the new Bnet.
Eonwe Valar: Looks like they still have plans for all Blizzard games to be able to communicate between one another.
Eonwe Valar: If we can set up common channels in this overarching architecture like we can in the individual games, we could have a nice way for Guildies to keep in touch between WoW, Starcraft 2, and Diablo 3 at least.
ArPharazonV: would be odd, to whisper people who are in SC2 from WoW....
VardaValar1: One can hope it's like before, where we used our friend channel.
Eonwe Valar: The web addresses for all this info are located on the Games Page, by the way.
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/eonwe/index.php
Eonwe Valar: Aye, thanks.
Eonwe Valar: WoW: Lothar: I got my pony bridle, so now my Squire can mount up and follow me places :} Now if I can just get him a flying mount.. :}
VardaValar1: :-)
Eonwe Valar: Uldaman: Popped in during the week and looks like things are going well in there.
AriehnV: nice :-)
Eonwe Valar: Swiped some medium leather from the bank there to work on my leatherworking on Kalmo, hehe :}
VardaValar1: Ahh, maybe I can drop some more in there for you.
Eonwe Valar: He's using heavy now mostly :}
VardaValar1: oops :-)
VardaValar1: We were sending Elwing birthday presents this last week. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: LotRO: Afraid I only popped in long enough for a mail check this week, and missed the prime time fun.
VardaValar1: I've mostly been gone this last week, but got to pop in yesterday. LotRO is having a +25% experience week, along with free week for returning players.
AriehnV: hmm i sneaked in and up to lvl 26
AriehnV: on me burglar
AriehnV: just did the class quest and think the Moria expansion will arrive tomorrow :-)
Eonwe Valar: Cool :}
AriehnV: it has arrived in the uk all right :-)
VardaValar1: (Arien is in LotRO right now.)
AriehnV: additionally i ve firmly in the planning to free up two nights for Lotro
Eonwe Valar: :}
AriehnV: even tho i love my Horde guild i get a wee bit bored with WoW , still love it and addicted as ever
AriehnV: alas i am looking for the extension
AriehnV: but i want a bit change in between
ArPharazonV: don't need to play it fulltime to love it
Eonwe Valar: Even BLizzard employees say that, so obviously they're not afraid of losing you for long :}
AriehnV: true enough phara :-)
VardaValar1: Although we seem to have a lot of people in LotRO who quit WoW...
Eonwe Valar: It seems peopel tend to take a break from WoW after they tire of the new content introduced in each content patch, then shell out the money again once a new one comes out. Reason it seems more crowded around those times :}
VardaValar1: True. Kind of like a new game to try out again.
Eonwe Valar: Is there any other gaming news?
ArPharazonV: *shrug* that's always my philosophy but new content seems to come out these days before I finish with the old one
ArPharazonV: sure, I've got a few tidbits
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead Phar.
ArPharazonV: first of all, though I didn't get to raid much this week because of my wow stability, it has been a fine WoW week for me [Europe: Argent Dawn server]
ArPharazonV: I got a pvp ram, the Argent Tournament ram, and after months and months of trying my egg came through for me and hatched me a green protodrake
ArPharazonV: putting me at 82 mounts, just 18 to go!
ArPharazonV: second of all I continued my WoW tradition of choosing a wallpaper from the announcement of each expansion to the next, and so I replaced my Utgarde Keep wallpaper that I put up at the announcement of Wrath 2 days ago
ArPharazonV: and now Deathwing reigns on my desktop!
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: Also! I played some other games because I spent less time in WoW
ArPharazonV: finished with Red Alert 3 (at least, the campaigns, I'm always up for some comp-stomp multiplayer as Menelvagor calls it)
ArPharazonV: and installed Battle for Middle-Earth in an attempt to work my way throughout the series again, though as mentioned before it failed during the first level, but I have good hopes
ArPharazonV: on the internet I finished the flashgame Bubble Tanks 2 by unlocking the final tank, which I also consider an accomplishment for me ;-)
ArPharazonV: and I started again on a flashgame called Patchworkz which is another nice jigsaw-like game
ArPharazonV: and that's my gaming for this week :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Phar :}
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Eonwe Valar: If there's no other Gaming news, we can move to Tolkien.
luthienathariel has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Luthien :}
luthienathariel: Suilad
VardaValar1: Suilad, Luthien :-)
Eonwe Valar: We are now entering Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: And Luthien has a report for us :}
luthienathariel: now?
VardaValar1: Aye
Eonwe Valar: If you're ready :}
luthienathariel: right
luthienathariel: yes
luthienathariel: I am not sure if there are any others here who are also a member of Elfling (David Salos' Yahoo list) ?
luthienathariel: because this conference was announced there. It's a bi-yearly thing, and this was the third one
VardaValar1: Maybe you could give us the url when you have time, and he may have some new members. : )
luthienathariel: hence the name, Omentielva Nelya
luthienathariel: third Meeting
luthienathariel: sure
luthienathariel: well, it is easy to find
luthienathariel: but anyhow
luthienathariel: it was a four day program, held in Whitehaven, UK
luthienathariel: and the agenda was mostly linguistic / technical, with things like "New proposed classification of Quenya verbs" or a talk by someone who works for the Unicode consortium, on how he is trying to get the Tengwar characters included in there
luthienathariel: or a talk by Petri Tikka "God names in Elvish"
VardaValar1: Several people have tried to get Tengwar included over the years. Wonder if they're making any progress. : )
luthienathariel: yes, he certainly is
luthienathariel: (at least, that are his words ;-) )
luthienathariel: and there was one thing that I found particularly interesting: there was a primary school project, like an extra curriculum activity for those who like to read
luthienathariel: which had a Tolkien chapter
luthienathariel: consisting of about 10 children
luthienathariel: which are completely enthusiastic
luthienathariel: and the fun thing is that this school is in a socially deprived area
luthienathariel: and this project seems to really "spirit" the school as a whole
luthienathariel: they went to Oxford, to name one thing
luthienathariel: and wrote poems
luthienathariel: not yet in Quenya or something, but still very interesting and very moving, too
luthienathariel: and when they found out that there was a meeting taking place especially about elven languages, they insisted a delegation shoudl go there
VardaValar1: From us!
luthienathariel: and they made their teacher inquire things, and lo, there they were with a delegation of four
VardaValar1: (We wish)
luthienathariel: ?
luthienathariel: no, uk
VardaValar1: Sorry, pray continue.
luthienathariel: lol
luthienathariel: well, what can I say about it .. it was really inspiring. We were with about 14 plus the children, who were there with two teachers, and stayed two days
luthienathariel: the rest were from Sweden
luthienathariel: three guys
luthienathariel: not so good in names ... they seem to be the real experts in Tengwar
luthienathariel: and some from the UK, of course
luthienathariel: a Spanish guy
luthienathariel: a woman from Switzerland
luthienathariel: some Belgians, and two from the Netherlands
luthienathariel: now, there is talk that maybe there shoudl also be one held overseas
luthienathariel: there are people who'd love to see that
luthienathariel: so if there are language enthusiasts over there, and if you are interested, maybe have a look
luthienathariel: and we concluded with poetry readings on the last day
VardaValar1: Sounds intriguing.
luthienathariel: and that was really awesome
luthienathariel: altogether - it's very scholarly and very technical
luthienathariel: but there is also room for creative things like writing and poetry
luthienathariel: ah yes, one thing was this ..
luthienathariel: maybe you have heard of these Parma Eldalamberon publiucations
luthienathariel: and most of them are out of print for a long time
luthienathariel: they are the result of the Editorial Team working on Tolkien's heritage
luthienathariel: well, the linguistic side of it
luthienathariel: and now we are at issue 17
luthienathariel: but issues 1 to 13 (or so) are no longer to be found
VardaValar1: Argh
luthienathariel: so we are going to try and make a proposal to the editorial team to make a proper reprint, which should also include cataloguing and getting an ISBN nr etc.
ArPharazonV: hmm, if you'll excuse me, series finale of something's on tv so I'll be half afk for a bit
luthienathariel: conclusion, it was really interesting.
ArPharazonV: will be back from time to time
luthienathariel: and fun
Eonwe Valar: Sounds like it was :}
luthienathariel: Any questions?
luthienathariel: *plays with ballpoint pen*
luthienathariel: No?
luthienathariel: *gathers paperwork, walks off stage*
luthienathariel: thanks!
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Thanks for that report, Luthien :}
luthienathariel: glassen :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you Luthien :-)
luthienathariel: úbresto :-)
luthienathariel: (no worries)
VardaValar1: David Salo's page:
VardaValar1: http://yarinareth.net/
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
luthienathariel: yw :-)
Eonwe Valar: Fladrif, Pallando, either of you two here? :}
Eonwe Valar: Guess not. :}
luthienathariel: wait, I can poke Fladrif
VardaValar1: Mailing list:
VardaValar1: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/
AriehnV: Luthien probably you heard about Helmut W. Pesch?
luthienathariel: ehm, no?
luthienathariel: I am not such a scholar, tbh ...
AriehnV: weird lol he is a German Elvish linguist and Tolkien expert
VardaValar1: The list above is a Yahoo group, lot of linquist stuff.
luthienathariel: I am more someone who likes to write and speak the languages
luthienathariel: ah, German ...
luthienathariel: that explains ;-)
AriehnV: mhhh lol aye
luthienathariel: ;-)
AriehnV: got a complete linguistic book about development of the elvish languages in Tolkiens works and the dictionaries
AriehnV: in Sindarin and Quenya
AriehnV: with grammar explained
luthienathariel: no seriously, I just use the knowledge they like to discuss about
luthienathariel: But so did others, like David Salo
luthienathariel: I do have his book ..
luthienathariel: ok I just asked my german friend
luthienathariel: who is also on a German elvish linguistics forum
luthienathariel: about this Helmut Pesch
luthienathariel: here's her answer: "he's a know it all who is taking other ppls achievements and sells them in a book, making heeps of mistakes"
luthienathariel: so she does not really have a high opinion of him it seems ...
luthienathariel: hmm
Eonwe Valar: That is quite a shot to take.
VardaValar1: ouch
VardaValar1: Url for the Elfling Faq page: http://nellardo.com/lang/elf/faq.html
luthienathariel: the ppl that are taken serious in that respect are usually the Editorial team, Thorsten Renk, David Salo and that swedish guy (forgot his name)
luthienathariel: yes, but it are not my words, mind you ;-)

Eonwe Valar: So, does everyone have time to give thought to a Tolkien topic, or shall we call it here?
luthienathariel: although they love to fight amongst another, too ...
ArPharazonV: I've got time, commercials are on right now ;-)
luthienathariel: Voetbal?
ArPharazonV: nah, just a show, but it's the series' final so don't really wanna miss it
ArPharazonV: hah, me and sports... right

Eonwe Valar: Actually, looks like we've got a crossed wire somewhere in the RP..
VardaValar1: A quick mention, in the rp, the first trip across the water is supposed to be people only, horses later.
VardaValar1: I'll try to catch Indis in LotRO if you like, this week.
ArPharazonV: ah yes, sorry, felt a bit overtensioned this week, I'll look into it somewhere in the week
VardaValar1: Unless you guys wanted to change it and I didn't hear about it during the week's absence?
Eonwe Valar: I don't believe we did change it, no.
ArPharazonV: I know I usually have an excuse for not reading up on everything or not posting but this week has been really silly :-)
Eonwe Valar: If we're using a small boat, we certainly can't get all the horses over at once.
VardaValar1: okies, it was just a short mention. The first run was to take people, then two horses at a time.
VardaValar1: Small boat.
VardaValar1: Ok, that's all I was going to mention on the rp.
Eonwe Valar: I read the last couple of additions, but apparently not as closely as I thought.
Eonwe Valar: That does cause some problems, aye. Estarion is on the boat, and we have Meren, Calion, and Fainan, besides the hroses.
Eonwe Valar: *horses.
Eonwe Valar: For a small boat, it's awefully full :}
VardaValar1: We're falling off the sides! aghhhh
Eonwe Valar: :}

luthienathariel: -> (if you want to be enlightened re. "linguistic fighting" search the elfling list for the name "Helmut W. Pesch")
Eonwe Valar: It's 5:30 here (1.5 hours after meeting start) Let's go ahead and call the meeting here, and let everyone get to what they need to get to.
VardaValar1: heh
Eonwe Valar: *Bangs Gavel*
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Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting.
VardaValar1: *jumps*
VardaValar1: Now trying to figure out a word in either Elvish language for "please".
VardaValar1: Seems to require a workaround.
AriehnV: hehe i would suggest something , *if it pleases you* or to that ilk
AriehnV: 0r *if it warms your heart*
VardaValar1: Do you know how to say that in Sindarin or Quenya?
luthienathariel: anna 'lass achen
luthienathariel: anna 'lass achen ae
luthienathariel: "if it gives you joy"
AriehnV: anna 'lass achen ae :-)
luthienathariel: or
luthienathariel: ha anna 'lass achen ae
VardaValar1: Nice! Where are you ladies finding that?
VardaValar1: url for E.L.F. is http://www.elvish.org/
luthienathariel: in my head, and in this table of pronouns ...
AriehnV: as for giving the prompt i was just searching my head how i would circumphrase *please* and how an elf would maybe say it
AriehnV: the translation was Luthien's job :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you
luthienathariel: and as for "if it warms your hart ..."
ArPharazonV: we have our little duo of translaters right here then....
VardaValar1: Eonwe suggested favor or beseech.
luthienathariel: ha gar gureg laug ae
ArPharazonV: that.. sounds dwarvish more than anything
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: maybe Orcish
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
luthienathariel: sure
VardaValar1: Aiya Menelvagor :-)
luthienathariel: not if you pronounce it, let me assure you
ArPharazonV: hmm... soft g, perhaps
luthienathariel: no, the g is a very soft k
ArPharazonV: or I believe silent g's the English term
luthienathariel: like inFrench
VardaValar1: Found the lambengolmor Yahoo page for linquistic discussion: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/lambengolmor/
luthienathariel: like ingarçon
ArPharazonV: hmm
ArPharazonV: still sounds a bit rough, but I guess it works
luthienathariel: of course it works, it IS it ;-)
VardaValar1: heheh
AriehnV: like *je*
AriehnV: or *genre*
luthienathariel: I mean, if you go to the boulangerie and point out a bread, and ask the baker what he calls that, and he answers "C'est un pain" - would you then say "hmm, that might just work" ... ?
luthienathariel: LOL
VardaValar1: I'd ask if he needed a Bandaid.
luthienathariel: but I have to go to bed ..
ArPharazonV: it's a million to once chance...
ArPharazonV: but it might just work!

luthienathariel: bye all
ArPharazonV: *to one
VardaValar1: Sleep is good. :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie Luthien
VardaValar1: Farewell : )
luthienathariel: novaer!
luthienathariel has left the room.
pallandovalar: million to one chances work nine times out of ten.
ArPharazonV: ah, another Discworld-reader? :-)
VardaValar1: heheh
pallandovalar: I hoped that was what you were referencing, and not H2G2, cause I would have screwed that up.
ArPharazonV: hmm, what was the equation.... books = knowledge = power = energy = mass.... that's why old bookshops and large libraries always seem screwed up in time and space?
AriehnV: the answer is 52
ArPharazonV: isn't that 42?
AriehnV: think it got changed ^^ in the second or third book
AriehnV: thats why marvin went into another bout of depression
ArPharazonV: ah, wouldn't know about that, never read them
ArPharazonV: just some things that everyone knows ;-)
arwenv1 has left the room.
VardaValar1: More resources in linguistics: http://www.elvish.org/resources.html

VardaValar1: Pallando, get to do anything in Eve?
AriehnV: ok thanks Varda :-) landed on my favourite list
pallandovalar: Yes..like, 2.5m after I planned (more like 9, but hey!) Pallando is finally training skills again.
pallandovalar: All the nubbles I've gotten turned out to be nothings.
pallandovalar: It's hard selling a one-man endeavor. Also, hi Menel.
pallandovalar: (menel just logged in to eve)
VardaValar1: Nice : )
VardaValar1: Now you have 2!
VardaValar1: How do other people start groups up?
pallandovalar: Accept people who aren't worth much.
pallandovalar: Have OOG groups start.
VardaValar1: ouch
pallandovalar: Or chance.
pallandovalar: My very first corp was like that. couple guys got together in newbcorp. "So, like, wanna get our own corp?" "Sounds cool."
pallandovalar: ..they were pretty worthless.
VardaValar1: Can you and Menel get together?
pallandovalar: Yeh.
pallandovalar: Poor pallando has no SP..
Menelvagor Valar: depends on where he is based :P
pallandovalar: Aren't you a dirty amarr lover, anyways?
Menelvagor Valar: heck no :P
Menelvagor Valar: I bought the Revelations book a while back and reverted back to my Minmatar Origins :-D
VardaValar1: Any way to make a friend channel like we do for Blizzard games and LotRO?
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.
Menelvagor Valar: But when in an alliance, we're getting swamped with channels already :P
VardaValar1: You two really should find some way to hang out together. It would be fun.
Menelvagor Valar: Not easy to do in EVE, as it is mostly pvp based.
VardaValar1: Can't get you both in Valar Corps?
pallandovalar: You're in WI?
Menelvagor Valar: and if we're on opposite sides of the map, it can literally take more than an hour to get together somewhere in the middle :P
pallandovalar: They let just anyone in nowadays, don't they? :p
Menelvagor Valar: I am.
Menelvagor Valar: I've been in WI since before the Geminate campaign :P
pallandovalar: poor pallando.
pallandovalar: 7m sp :s
ArPharazonV: 7m sounds like a lot, but I don't know how inflation affects that game over time
pallandovalar: ...
pallandovalar: I forgot to train Calrity.
pallandovalar: Clarity.
pallandovalar: No wonder BC V is taking forever.
VardaValar1: Another linguistic url: http://www.elvish.org/Tengwestie/
pallandovalar: Ar: Very, very roughly speaking you can look at getting ~1m SP/month.
Menelvagor Valar: Anarore has nearly 30M skillpoints and I'd be shocked if I'd have more than 1/25th, if even 1/50th of the total.
pallandovalar: Can't remember what the Dr.'s at.
pallandovalar: Should be round 125m now. Could go look, I suppose.
pallandovalar: (highest sp character in the game)
Menelvagor Valar: Ana is almost ready to fly capital ships though :-)
ArPharazonV: still, if you get 1m per month, 7m doesn't seem like very little if it takes 7 months to get that amount, I'm sure you spend some of it?
ArPharazonV: or aren't we talking currency?
pallandovalar: SP=skillpoints
pallandovalar: you don't spend it.
ArPharazonV: ahhh
pallandovalar: :-)
ArPharazonV: I thought like... silver pieces or so...
Menelvagor Valar: And you might compare a capital ship against the highest possible standard ship as .... I dunno a lvl 80 char in full Ulduar gear against... let's say... a lvl 40'ish char?
pallandovalar: Hardly.
pallandovalar: Cap ships take a lot of prereqs, but I promise you my main's cruisers hurt more when he loses them.
Menelvagor Valar: Nah, Ana has around 300 million credits, and that's a peasize wallet compared to alliance spendings.
Menelvagor Valar: he flies t3?
pallandovalar: Nah.
Menelvagor Valar: Ana has a Loki ^^
pallandovalar: Fully factioned faction cruisers. \o/
Menelvagor Valar: Her Maelstrom is called "the Starkmanir" if that rings a bell :-)
pallandovalar: Current Vaga fit is 180s, ts neut, rf mwd/pt, LSEs, 3x rf gyro, rf od and rf nano.
Menelvagor Valar: that's not a cruiser though :P
pallandovalar: and the rf od/nano are entirely pointless.
Menelvagor Valar: That's a HAC :P
pallandovalar: ..heavy assault cruiser. :p
pallandovalar: It still says cruiser in the name!
Menelvagor Valar: but it's a fully raid equipped 80 compared to a lvl 70 in comparison :P
ArPharazonV: oh you and your WoW metaphors..
pallandovalar: my SFI for missioning is 425s, domi ab, 3x ladar eccm, Corelum c-type repper, ts hardeners (cause I can!) bacak ladar and um
pallandovalar: somethign else
pallandovalar: you know, a mod.
Menelvagor Valar: Unless you can catch a HAC pilot with its pants down, the HAC will win with hands tied behind its back, blindfolded AND having lag that predates the stone age.
pallandovalar: oh, yeah, 2x RF gyros.
pallandovalar: it's unprobeable!
Menelvagor Valar: Can ya run lvl 4s solo though?
pallandovalar: No, but I can't do that with my ships no matter how hard I try.
pallandovalar: The best I can do is a vaga that tanks 280 omni dps.
Menelvagor Valar: heh, I can do that easy with any battleship.
pallandovalar: Well, yeah.
Menelvagor Valar: And I have this strong suspicion I can do it in my loki :P
pallandovalar: I could run level 4s solo too with one skill trained. :p
pallandovalar: Depends on the loki fit, but yeh.
ArPharazonV: you know, after WoW I thought I could take any game's terminology
ArPharazonV: but this is mindboggling
ArPharazonV: do continue :-)
Menelvagor Valar: AB - Web - omni-tank - 5 autocannons and LSB, + cap stable.
Menelvagor Valar: and I know I can tank 6+ BS.
pallandovalar: how's it work? I'm thinking of getting one next year.
Menelvagor Valar: (trying to ramp up the mindboggling of Pharzie *grin*
ArPharazonV: hehe
pallandovalar: I can talk fittings all day long.
pallandovalar: I think I was shooting some WI the other day, you know.
Menelvagor Valar: Well, basically you take the damage mod, the ab mod.
VardaValar1: Namarie for now. : )
Menelvagor Valar: the others don't matter all that much really :-)
pallandovalar: Namarie.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie Varda :-)
VardaValar1: Hope you three get together!
VardaValar1 has left the room.
pallandovalar: ineve.net seems to be down
pallandovalar: but google cache says Dr Caymus has 132m sp.
pallandovalar: That's the highest in the game.
Menelvagor Valar: I could technically pilot a titan in 103 days ^^
AriehnV: Namarie from me as well :-) bed time here now
pallandovalar: Pallando's lolz 7m, Menel has 30m, and my main has 48m.
Menelvagor Valar: Ana is my main, my alt has 6.6M.
AriehnV has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: but she's only about 3.5 months old.
pallandovalar: Pallando's like, a year?
Menelvagor Valar: well, training wise anyways :P
pallandovalar: um
pallandovalar: pallando's 2.5y old..
pallandovalar: did I really make him that long ago? :s
Menelvagor Valar: alt is almost 2y old :P
pallandovalar: where has the time gone?
Menelvagor Valar: oh, and for the loki, I'm going for the following subsystems:
pallandovalar: Stupid hauler alt eating all his training time..
pallandovalar: otoh, the hauler alt has level 4 trade skills, can fly a viator w/cloak, mwd, hacking and alayzing t2.
pallandovalar: so I guess it's okay.
pallandovalar: Anyways, Ar. Menel has 30m SP, I have 48m on main, but he can fly much larger ships than I.
pallandovalar: But if he were to encounter me in a ship class equivalent to my own, I would destroy him.
pallandovalar: and I've been known to take out ships larger than mine with some fancy piloting.
Menelvagor Valar: Adaptive Shielding, Immobility Drives (not fitted yet, but that's the best), Capacitor Regeneration Matrix, Turret Concurrence Registry and Fuel Catalyst.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh no.
Menelvagor Valar: Best I can fly is a battelship.
pallandovalar: not going for the bubble/cloak stupidity?
pallandovalar: You said you were hitting caps soon.
Menelvagor Valar: Can also fly Logistics, T3 and Cov ops.
Menelvagor Valar: Yeah, I will be finishing Adv. Spaceship Command 3 in 8 hours :P
Menelvagor Valar: adv ss comm 5(
Menelvagor Valar: **
ArPharazonV: oh right, these things continue when you log off, right?
Menelvagor Valar: Just have to buy cap ship book, train Minny battleship to 5 and buy minny dreadnought book.
ArPharazonV: for your character that is
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.
Menelvagor Valar: And you can set skills for up to 24 hours in advance, or anything that goes over the max on a skill as long as it begins training within the 24 hours timeframe.
ArPharazonV: neat
pallandovalar: whoo skillqueue
pallandovalar: that was added far too late for it to do me any good
ArPharazonV: sounds a bit like that webgame Ogame but way more advanced
pallandovalar: /me pokes his 2week skills
pallandovalar: Think the shortest thing I've got upcoming is 10d.
Menelvagor Valar: So, basically, you can start (and finish) a million skills in 23 hours, 59 minutes and 59 seconds, and then throw a skill in the cooker which takes 15 days or so to train :P
Menelvagor Valar: Just got one finished :-)
pallandovalar: Well, that's a lie. I'm actually on a spree of skilltraining.
pallandovalar: I finally broke down and trained my 101st skill.
pallandovalar: (I'm a wee bit ocd about it)
Menelvagor Valar: And my alt has just started on her only 16 day skill :P
Menelvagor Valar: for now anyways :P
ArPharazonV: hmm, so you need skillpoints for skills...
Menelvagor Valar: She's going to get into a HULK first, and then I'm going to have her train to be a refinery whore.
pallandovalar: Pallando's 30d from BC V.
ArPharazonV: but I assume higher skills need more points....
ArPharazonV: now what does that remind me of...
Menelvagor Valar: that's correct.
ArPharazonV: meh, can't come up with it
pallandovalar: also
pallandovalar: stupid rig sizes
pallandovalar: you have any idea how much more expensive my hacs are now? :-(
Menelvagor Valar: For example, frigates to train from 1 to 5 (with no learning skills to speak of) only takes like 6 days or so, Battleship 1 to 5 takes a month and a half or so.
pallandovalar: k. here's eve skill system in 3 minutes:
pallandovalar: You have four things which influence how long it takes to train something.
pallandovalar: Attributes, Rank of skill, Level of skill..and something else? okay, 3 things.
Menelvagor Valar: Implants.
pallandovalar: falls under attribs
Menelvagor Valar: and the 4th is drugs.
ArPharazonV: Ah! Now I remember.... some RPG's starting attributes.. anyway, listening
Menelvagor Valar: primary and secondary attribute for said skill.
pallandovalar: okay, you roll your attribs when you start the game, used to be fixed, now you can reroll them once a year.
ArPharazonV: sounds familiar, yes
pallandovalar: you can train skills to increace your attribs, and you can buy implants for your character to increase attribs.
Menelvagor Valar: up to a max of +5 on both implants and skills.
pallandovalar: point is, they're (more or less) fixed. you get them, you can modify them a bit, but after awhile, you're maxed out. you have all the learning skills, you have the best implants, they just won't grow somehow over time.
Menelvagor Valar: but there are 2 skills for each attrib, so a total of +15.
pallandovalar: slightly more, adv skills and the learning skill, but that's above and beyond the point
Menelvagor Valar: plus a skill that gives you a bonus on your bonus to attribs, called learning.
pallandovalar: so each skill you get has 4 stats: rank, level, primary attrib, secondary attrib.
pallandovalar: rank is fixed. it's basically a measure of how "difficult" the skill is.
pallandovalar: Frigate (smallest ship class) is rank 1.
pallandovalar: Battleship is rank.. 8?
pallandovalar: cruisers are inbetween and is like, 4 or 5 or something.
Menelvagor Valar: a8 is correct.
pallandovalar: you get the idea.
Menelvagor Valar: cruiser is 5.
pallandovalar: anyways, for each rank up it doubles.
pallandovalar: er, multiplies
Menelvagor Valar: titan is 16 (biggest baddest ships around.
ArPharazonV: *what* multiplies?
ArPharazonV: difficulty?
pallandovalar: so a rank 2 skill takes twices as many skills to get from any given level to another as a rank one
Menelvagor Valar: Amount of points needed.
ArPharazonV: ah yes, skillpoints
pallandovalar: a rank for twice as much as a rank 2, and 4 times as much as a rank 1
pallandovalar: then you have levels.
ArPharazonV: don't you mean a rank 3, then?
pallandovalar: no
ArPharazonV: so a rank 3 takes 3 times as much as a rank 1 and one and a half as much as a rank 2?
pallandovalar: it doesn't double I was being retarted. it's a straight multtiplier.
pallandovalar: yes
ArPharazonV: gotya
pallandovalar: now, to go from level 1 -> level 2 of a rank one skill takes 250 points.
pallandovalar: er
pallandovalar: from not trained to level 1
pallandovalar: to go from not trained to level 5 takes 512000 skillpoints.
pallandovalar: 4->5 takes something like 63% longer than from 0->4
ArPharazonV: 512000...
Menelvagor Valar: frigate is rank 2 btw :P
ArPharazonV: 250, 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000, 16000, 32000, 64000, 128000, 256000, 512000.. how many doublings is that?
pallandovalar: also, I may have lied
pallandovalar: is it 256k for a rank one?
Menelvagor Valar: 12 doubles.
Menelvagor Valar: rank 2.
pallandovalar: yeah
pallandovalar: sorry, for a rank one to hit level 5 it takes 256k.
Menelvagor Valar: my minmatar frigate (rank 2) at lvl 5 is 512k skillpoints.
pallandovalar: for a rank 2 to hit level 5, it takes 512k
ArPharazonV: ah yes
pallandovalar: for a rank 3 it takes 768k and so on and so forth.
Menelvagor Valar: Caldari Battleship (rank 8) takes 2.048.000 at lvl 5.
ArPharazonV: hmm, cute
Menelvagor Valar: so rank is a straight double.
ArPharazonV: well, not a double exactly
pallandovalar: so for menel to get his battleship level 5, a rank 8 skill..2m, yeah.
pallandovalar: straight multiplier.
ArPharazonV: rank 4 would be 1024k....
Menelvagor Valar: exactly.
Menelvagor Valar: oh.
pallandovalar: as opposed to gettign frigate to level 5, which takes a mere 512k sp.
Menelvagor Valar: I've got a rank 1 lvl 4 here.
ArPharazonV: rank 6 would be... phew... 1536k?
pallandovalar: yup
Menelvagor Valar: that skill has 45.255 skillpoints trained out of 256k.
ArPharazonV: how many levels are there?
pallandovalar: /me looks at awu
pallandovalar: 5 levels
pallandovalar: highest rank skilll is 16.
ArPharazonV: hmmm
ArPharazonV: *calculates* 4096k
Menelvagor Valar: as said with Titan :-)
pallandovalar: but
pallandovalar: remember that level 5?
ArPharazonV: takes like 4 months to gather the points for then
ArPharazonV: hmmm?
pallandovalar: exact same bonus as from 3->4
Menelvagor Valar: just over 3 months for me Pallando.
pallandovalar: so for spending 63% more time or whatever, it gives you only 5% more. (assuming you get 5%/level)
Menelvagor Valar: But I have learning maxed and +4 implants.
pallandovalar: 1m/month is a rough average.
ArPharazonV: so is 4->5 those numbers you've given, or untrained->5?
pallandovalar: it's higher now that we can repec, and +4s are so cheap and ocmmon, but that's beside the point.
pallandovalar: 0->5
ArPharazonV: allright
pallandovalar: menel posted what a rank 1 level 4 skill takes: 45255
ArPharazonV: so, for simplicity, a rank 1, how exactly does it go? 256k you said, but 250 from untrained to 1...
Menelvagor Valar: but as said Phar, for a skill rank 1 to go from 4 -> 5 it takes 256k - 40k.
pallandovalar: compare that to rank 1 level 5: 256k
ArPharazonV: aha
pallandovalar: let's see. I should have some random skills on pallando that aren't trained high
ArPharazonV: how's 1->2, etc?
ArPharazonV: I'm sure there'll be a mathematical pattern to it but I can't see it right now
pallandovalar: level 2 takes total 1415 level 3 total 8000
pallandovalar: so milestones are 250, 1415, 8000, 45255, 256000
Menelvagor Valar: Actually, it takes me 9 days and 19 hours to train frigate from 0 to 5, and that IS with learning skills maxed.
pallandovalar: are you perc/will specced?
pallandovalar: and then for every rank, double that.
pallandovalar: and remember as I was saying. if you get, say, 5%/level bonus to..damage
Menelvagor Valar: rainbowed over the 4 major attributes for space-faring, so not charisma.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh.
Menelvagor Valar: The straight multiplier for levels is 5.65something.
pallandovalar: at level 4, having spent 45255sp training, you have a 20% bonus to damage
Menelvagor Valar: depending on the ship, there may be multiple bonuses btw.
pallandovalar: to get that extra 5%, you need to spend a further 210 745.
Menelvagor Valar: and for advanced ships of the same type, you actually need lvl 5 skill.
ArPharazonV: neat
pallandovalar: ...but someones level 5s unlock stuff
Menelvagor Valar: For example, to fly an interceptor you need lvl 5 frigates before you can train the interceptor skill.
Menelvagor Valar: and you'll need half a ton of support skills.
ArPharazonV: it does sound like fun, but a nice skill-system isn't enough to get me out of WoW....
pallandovalar: either a more advanced skill, an advanced version of a modules, etc, etc.
ArPharazonV: though honestly if there were like 3 times as many hours in a day...
pallandovalar: some are just there for ocd freaks like me to train
Menelvagor Valar: Ok, then here's your idea: WoW is boring as hell, EVE is not.
pallandovalar: hello, surgical strike 5!
ArPharazonV: I'd get in there and be just as OCD as you are
pallandovalar: (it's a rank 4 skill. it gives a stunning 2%/level bonus.)
ArPharazonV: I'm a huge fan of techtrees though so this alone is very appealing
Menelvagor Valar: Trajectory Analysis 5 is a must though for gunboats.
pallandovalar: the reason being it gives 2%/level bonus to every turret you use in the game.
pallandovalar: you mean for vagas. :p
Menelvagor Valar: any gunboat :P
Menelvagor Valar: and a vaga is still a bucket of rust held together with ducttape.
pallandovalar: you don't need traj analysis 5 for a mega. :\
Menelvagor Valar: then again, so is a Loki :P
pallandovalar: In rust We Trust
Menelvagor Valar: that we do.
pallandovalar: So, Ar.
Menelvagor Valar: And yes, even for a Mega.
ArPharazonV: I would, if I wasn't entrenched into 1 or 2 other MMOs.
pallandovalar: The way this all comes together is that through some number manipulation, I forget how
ArPharazonV: all sounds very tech-treeish which could really keep me busy 24 hours a day
pallandovalar: you take the primary attribute of a skill, say, perception.
Menelvagor Valar: well basically it's bonus % on bonus %
Menelvagor Valar: for example:
pallandovalar: and multiply your perception level (say, 20) by some number
Menelvagor Valar: my hauler skill gives me 5% per level.
Menelvagor Valar: carg increase that is.
pallandovalar: then add a different multiplication of the secondary attribute (say, willpower) by some number, which is half of the other number
Menelvagor Valar: lvl 1 therefore has 105% of maximum cargo of lvl 0.
Menelvagor Valar: lvl 2 has 110.25% of max cargo.
pallandovalar: so your secondary attribute adds half as much as your primary attribute to your training speed.
pallandovalar: no, just 110%. Skills don't stack with themsevels, stilly.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh yes they do :P
pallandovalar: check numbers, they don't...
ArPharazonV: ohh, the arguments start, let me get some popcorn
Menelvagor Valar: I calculated that myself on my 15k bestower :P
pallandovalar: you're doing it wrong. hold on.
Menelvagor Valar: well, I did pop the numbers ^^
Menelvagor Valar: got it down the the m3 exact with the stacking bonus.
pallandovalar: base cpu on fstabber: 312.
Menelvagor Valar: How else do you reckon your shield resist shows about an infinite number after the comma?
pallandovalar: cpu in fstabber with me sitting in it, 390.
pallandovalar: no imps or rigs or mods to modify cpu
Menelvagor Valar: there is only so many skills / special ship abilities that boost it.
pallandovalar: QED
pallandovalar: because of how it adds
pallandovalar: and because of armor/shield comp skills
pallandovalar: once you have more than one resist mod, you're assured to have that happen.
Menelvagor Valar: But still, how do I get exactly the number my cargo hold could hold with the expander and skill bonus by stacking them separately?
pallandovalar: expander stacks with skill
Menelvagor Valar: I know that.
pallandovalar: but straight skill does not stack with itself
pallandovalar: a level 5 skill provied a 25% bonus
pallandovalar: not whateer you were going for
pallandovalar: level 2 provied 10%, not 10.25%
ArPharazonV: ooh, let me get the calculator
Menelvagor Valar: but even a 0.25% derivation at 15k cargo is still... let's calculate... a 38 m3 difference.
pallandovalar: hold on
pallandovalar: getting in mammoth..
Menelvagor Valar: I would have noticed the difference, really :P
ArPharazonV: 27.62815625% bonus!
Menelvagor Valar: Unless that was changed in the past year or so since I ran the calcs.
pallandovalar: phooey.
pallandovalar: it has a rig fitted
pallandovalar: oh well
pallandovalar: I'll spend 10m for SCIENCE
Menelvagor Valar: well, calculate the rig.
pallandovalar: screw that. okay
Menelvagor Valar: it will only serve the enlarge the difference.
pallandovalar: no rigs, no mods
pallandovalar: base mammoth cargohold: 5625
Menelvagor Valar: skill level?
pallandovalar: mammoth with me sitting in it, with industrial level 4 (should be 20% bonus, 5/level)
pallandovalar: 6750
pallandovalar: Q.E.D.
Menelvagor Valar: it says that in interface?
pallandovalar: yes
pallandovalar: what, do you want me to screenshot it?
Menelvagor Valar: must've changed then.
Menelvagor Valar: no need.
Menelvagor Valar: I believe you.
pallandovalar: nope.
pallandovalar: always been this way, sorry man.
Menelvagor Valar: then I must simply remember my calculations wrong.
ArPharazonV: and otherwise it would have beeeen....
pallandovalar: you dropped a decimal point somewhere or something.
ArPharazonV: 6837!
Menelvagor Valar: But at the very least mods and rigs and different skills stack separately.
pallandovalar: right
pallandovalar: rigs stack with mods
pallandovalar: skills multiply them
pallandovalar: and imps multipley that
Menelvagor Valar: Anyways, as fun as it has been, I'm off to bed.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie!
pallandovalar: namarie
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Menel.
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
pallandovalar: I've entirely forgotten what we were originally taking about now
pallandovalar: but I think the conclusion is you need to quit wow and lotro and come play eve
pallandovalar: it has maths!

Eonwe Valar: About to tell us all about Pallando the Blue Wizard? :}
ArPharazonV: us all, eh :-)
pallandovalar: If there was more than "he went into the east and might have been corrupted"...
Eonwe Valar: Well, there's he may have been sent in the Second Age :}
Eonwe Valar: He might've started cults in the East :}
ArPharazonV: nono, how he represents Tolkien's values, wasn't it? :-)
Eonwe Valar: And that too :}

pallandovalar: ..it is so hard to remember that I'm not rping when I'm on Pallando..
pallandovalar: ..and so dangerous to dual-box
ArPharazonV: can you lose a lot, in that game?
pallandovalar: cause I have to rmember that I'm IC on my main and that there's no ic/ooc distinction on pallando..
pallandovalar: plenty.
pallandovalar: let's see.
ArPharazonV: like, spend a couple of million credits on a fleet and get it wiped out in one battle?
pallandovalar: yesterday? day before?
pallandovalar: I lost..300m.
pallandovalar: call it 350m.
pallandovalar: sense of scale is n order:
pallandovalar: basic combat frigate, no frills runs you ~1m
pallandovalar: all up standard fit battleship (largest standard subcap class of ships) runs you..oh I dunno.
pallandovalar: somewhere between 85-125m.
pallandovalar: but anywhere from 50m-90m or so is insured, as in you, get it back when you die assuming your insurance is uptodate.
pallandovalar: the hull alone of the cheapest capital class is ~800m.
ArPharazonV: hello...
ArPharazonV: how much can you make in a day, as individual?
pallandovalar: depends entirely on you.
pallandovalar: If I rat (kill npcs in asteroid belts) (pirates -> rats) and do it right,don't have anyone interrupt me..
pallandovalar: I can come out with likely just around 200m.
pallandovalar: if I do it for 8 hours.
ArPharazonV: hmm....
pallandovalar: little more.
ArPharazonV: sounds like quite a grind
pallandovalar: if you trade on the market for 10 minutes
pallandovalar: you can make 2 billion
ArPharazonV: so you lost about 12-14 hours of grinding yesterday?
ArPharazonV: ah
ArPharazonV: like that
pallandovalar: if you're doing it right, and you've invested the time beforehand
pallandovalar: but seriously an hour a day can make you at least a good 500m a week.
pallandovalar: if you're willing to play the market. I find it boring, so I don't.
ArPharazonV: hmm, never liked that in WoW either
pallandovalar: well in eve it's an all up market
pallandovalar: not just the wow auction house or whatever.
pallandovalar: items come in (for our purposes) 3 varieties
pallandovalar: 4, rather
pallandovalar: tech 1, named, tech 2, and faction.
pallandovalar: listed in order of worse -> better (generaly speaking. always exceptions ofc)
pallandovalar: tech 1 is the no-frills basic version. can be dropped by npcs or built by players. massive quantities due to this are available.
ArPharazonV: white, green, blue, epic?
pallandovalar: named is between t1 and t2. only dropped by npcs
pallandovalar: t2 is only made by players
pallandovalar: it's harder to use, almost always harder to fit to your ship, almost always miles and miles better.
pallandovalar: only produced by players
ArPharazonV: hmmm, sounds like quite a profitable market
pallandovalar: faction is for the ultra-rich, like me :D
ArPharazonV: and faction comes from?
pallandovalar: they're very rare (blah blah some are ararer than others, etc, etc) and come from either npc drops or buying them from special npc stores (a few of them. not all, and not the best ones)
ArPharazonV: hmmm
pallandovalar: all ships are produced by players
pallandovalar: also, once you get into even mid-level work, ie, aren't wet behind the ears
pallandovalar: t2 is the standard. period.
ArPharazonV: so named isn't very popular then
pallandovalar: with a few execeptions for one reason or another (about 10 modules that I can think of off the top of my head out of the hundreds used), if you're not using t2 everything, you're wrong.
pallandovalar: named makes up those 10 exceptions.
pallandovalar: for one reason or another
pallandovalar: (mostly, lower capacitor(energy/mana) use than the t2 version, where the t2 version gives no benefit)
ArPharazonV: hmm
ArPharazonV: anyway, I should be going to sleep soon
pallandovalar: also, named usually are easier to fit to your ship (mods take up powergrid and cpu, of which your ship as a slightly modifiable, but basically fixed, quantity. named mods are generally easier on you, but you either lose some bit of effectiveness or pay through the nose)
pallandovalar: the point is..
pallandovalar: there's a market in eve, built in. every station is a marketplace.
pallandovalar: you rightclick your item in your hanger in station, and you hit "sell item"
ArPharazonV: and it functions as auction houses then?
pallandovalar: you can either sell to someone's buy order they put up (game does the transation automatically) or put up a sell order
ArPharazonV: oh, that's handy
ArPharazonV: and all those stations are linked then?
pallandovalar: if you put up a sell order, someone open the market window, looks, sees you have it the cheapest in the region, buys it from you
pallandovalar: you don't need to be online for this at all after setting up the initial sell or buy order
fladrifv: arpharazon soon keeper of a space ship?
karakedi25 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: hmm, right, so it's an AH (and reverse AH) but basically just buyout-prices?
karakedi25: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
fladrifv: Aiya
karakedi25: I missed the meeting :-(
pallandovalar: you can set up a buy order for 90d, cancel your subscription, and if no one sets up a buy order that pays more than you
fladrifv: I feared I missed the meeting by a bit too
karakedi25: was there discussion of the rp?
pallandovalar: you can coem back in 90d and have a nice big collection of crap.
ArPharazonV: not really Flad, I'm still loyal to WoW, but it does all sound fascinating....
pallandovalar: pretty much, yes phar
pallandovalar: but there's two things to note
Eonwe Valar: There was a bit, Indis.
Eonwe Valar: Seems there are a few too many passengers on the boat.
pallandovalar: you can only see this for your current region (~70 systems) (something like a dozen and a half regions)
ArPharazonV: pch, half a dozen horses and 4 people on a small boat... hardly a challenge
pallandovalar: and time is money.
ArPharazonV: time is money?
pallandovalar: so if you're in a system and 15 jumps away someone's selling it for 50,000 less
ArPharazonV: *quotes goblins*
Eonwe Valar: The first pass was only supposed to have people, horses taken two at a time after that.
pallandovalar: well, roundtrip that's looking to be 35+minutes
ArPharazonV: hmm, I thought systems were linked into regions?
pallandovalar: is 50,000 isk worth 35min when you can make 20,000,000 an hour not trying?
pallandovalar: they are
pallandovalar: but if I am selling a frigate in Teonusude, that's where it is
ArPharazonV: so you can see other systems in your region? or can you see those systems but have to travel there?
ArPharazonV: ahh
pallandovalar: second
pallandovalar: you can see it from, say, Egbinger
pallandovalar: you can even buy it from Egbinger
pallandovalar: but you have to go to Teon to buy it
ArPharazonV: so you can see it in your region from another system
pallandovalar: rather, to get it and use it and fly it
fladrifv: namarie all
ArPharazonV: but systems themselves are not linked
pallandovalar: right.
Eonwe Valar: Take care Fladrif.
ArPharazonV: Namarie Flad!
pallandovalar: remote buy is fine, but it's not automagically delivered to you. :p
ArPharazonV: thanks for the help with the pc and sorry for the bother I gave you over the week :-)
ArPharazonV: we can try again when you're here!
ArPharazonV: oh, so you can *buy* it for the 50000 less
ArPharazonV: but you'd still have to travel for 35 minutes to pick it up
pallandovalar: right!
pallandovalar: and you can make 10million in that 35 minutes if you stay there.
ArPharazonV: but if you can make millions if not billions in that time....
ArPharazonV: 50000 difference is like... nothing?
pallandovalar: pretty much
ArPharazonV: like 3 copper in AH?
pallandovalar: yeah
pallandovalar: not even worth noting.
pallandovalar: well, once you're established
pallandovalar: might be the difference between buying it and not, your first day. ;-)
ArPharazonV: again, 3 copper :-)
pallandovalar: I regularly spend tens of m more than I have to because traveling for 40minutes to save 15mil when I could be using those 40 minutes to kill things.. :s
fladrifv has left the room.
pallandovalar: ..you see the obvious opportunities for arbitrage.
ArPharazonV: well, I'm not sure how long you have to pick it up
ArPharazonV: but an idea would be for me to buy it cheaper elsewhere and then pick it up whenever I'm in the neighbourhood
ArPharazonV: unless I needed it urgently
ArPharazonV: not sure how you feel about such policies or if it's even possible
pallandovalar: yeah.
pallandovalar: oh, there is a universal AH
pallandovalar: market only works for t1, t2, named
ArPharazonV: but you don't bother with that ;-)
pallandovalar: a universal contracts system does faction/sells of collectiosn of items that go together, etc.
pallandovalar: prefitted ships, the works.
pallandovalar: well
pallandovalar: I'm a rich punk (I have my ways), so I fit faction on many ships.
pallandovalar: When you care enough to send the very best..
ArPharazonV: well, if you can afford it
pallandovalar: yup.

karakedi25: when you get a chance, could you tell me what was decided about the boat and the roleplay?
ArPharazonV: as far as I know, Indis
ArPharazonV: we were sticking with the current people - horses - more horses - etc plan, and Varda was going to try and catch you in LotrO during the week to discuss it
Eonwe Valar: Auros was holding horses on the side we're on, Meren with the first group to go across since she's going to get them on the other side.
ArPharazonV: but I'm still confused about the whole matter and need to dig into it, so maybe Eonwe knows more about it
karakedi25: OK. The plan was for Meren to cross with the first group, but of course that can be changed
ArPharazonV: right, Meren's going to go on the first boat, but not with all the horses
Eonwe Valar: No horses go across at the first go.
ArPharazonV: aaaanyway
ArPharazonV: I'm gonna save and send
karakedi25: OK. Then I'll change my post.
ArPharazonV: getting rather late here
karakedi25: was Varda on tonight?
karakedi25: (today)
Eonwe Valar: Yes she was.
pallandovalar: compairson: Tech 1 medium energy vampire: 390k. best named: 9m t2: 1.9m worst faction variant: 100m. best faction variant..um
pallandovalar: not even on contracts.
Eonwe Valar: I guess Estarion's going across with the first group, Frali staying behind with Auros.
karakedi25: OK. Would Meren's horse go across with her?
ArPharazonV: Nope, no horses on the first trip.
ArPharazonV: was I looking after the horses on the boat, or simply helping with moving the boat?
ArPharazonV: need to know if I'm on the first go or not
Eonwe Valar: Calion and Fainan will be taking the horses across two at a time (I think).
Eonwe Valar: You're helping Fainan man the boat.
Eonwe Valar: You apparently also have the horses while they're on the boat.
Eonwe Valar: "You" being Calion.
ArPharazonV: Right. So first boat is Fainan, myself, Meren, Estarion
ArPharazonV: *nod*
Eonwe Valar: Yes.
karakedi25: Then I'll change my post radically
ArPharazonV: then Fainan and I take the boat back
ArPharazonV: and we take 2 horses across
ArPharazonV: etc
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: Auros and Frali are the last two to cross.
karakedi25: and that's when Frali slips?
ArPharazonV: and on the final trip we try to take Eonwe and Frali, but Frali slips while Eonwe's on the near bank still
karakedi25: ok
ArPharazonV: leaving Estarion and Meren on the far bank with the horses
karakedi25: *nod*
ArPharazonV: myself and Fainan at the near bank waiting for you and Frali to come aboard
ArPharazonV: and then Frali slips while you're on the near bank
ArPharazonV: does that sound about right?
karakedi25: *is amused that Estarion will be left with the horses, considering how he feels about them* [Note: Meren is the main one handling the horses on the far bank, Estarion is more of a guard.]
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, I think Frali slips on the far bank. Would at least put us all on the right side of the river during the hunt.
karakedi25: That's true. It would be better.
ArPharazonV: so Frali slips while getting off?
Eonwe Valar: Yeah.
ArPharazonV: while Fainan, Auros and myself are still on the boat, or at least disembarking?
Eonwe Valar: I've been wondering if Auros wouldn't practically sprint off the boat, as eager as he is to keep moving, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Eonwe sprints off the boat, bumps into Frali, and throws Frali in the water...
ArPharazonV: and looks around and says.. "oops"
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
karakedi25: you could play it that way, and then he'd be really aggravated when the accident prevents moving on
ArPharazonV: Hey, it was your fault, mr Noldo!
Eonwe Valar: He wouldn't be in that much of a hurry to bump someone out of the way.
Eonwe Valar: But he probably wouldn't be close enough to grab Frali as he was slipping.
karakedi25: and he'd probably be too graceful to do it by accident, unless Frali moves into his way
ArPharazonV: anyway, I was a bit confused about the boat-matter but I think I've got it now
ArPharazonV: and now I'll be going to sleep
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Phar :}
karakedi25: glad I got to chat even a bit with you :-)
ArPharazonV: thanks for clarifying the rp, and thanks Pallando for all the Eve info, it really does sound fascinating, and I mean that
ArPharazonV: saving and sending
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