Valar Guild

August 16, 2009 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (6)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar (presiding), fladrifv, Menelvagor Valar, pallandovalar

Meeting begins
Membership happenings:
        Menelvagor in the Tolkien section
    WoW Patch. WoW again in the After-meeting concerning the expansion storyline.
    Red Alert 3
    The character of Menelvagor.
    Forum role-play
    Complete Guide to Elvish
    Battle-groups in WoW
    WoW Expansion storyline

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: how's things?
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
fladrifv has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Afk for a moment.
fladrifv: Aiya
ArPharazonV: aiya
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
Eonwe Valar: Back and heya
Eonwe Valar: OK, we're going to try and keep this as a quick meeting. Let's see how it goes :}

Eonwe Valar: Elenn sila lumenn omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: Varda couldn't make it tonight, so you're stuck with me :}
Eonwe Valar: Arien is back from vacation, obviously :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other member news?
ArPharazonV: hrm hrm, I'm getting a new pc in 1 or 2 days, well, a lot of new parts
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
ArPharazonV: coming all the way from Fladrif!
AriehnV: cool :-) very nice indeed
Eonwe Valar: :}
AriehnV: i could do with a new one for the next .. oops thats gaming , grin
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: well, yes, I'll probably see most improvement in WoW *grin*
Eonwe Valar: :}

Eonwe Valar: OK, if there's no other Member news, then on to Web News:
Eonwe Valar: Still working on that something I mentioned last week for the Games Page :}
Eonwe Valar: Doesn't look like anything new has gone up in the Tolkien Site yet, but I'm sure Varda's working at getting a bunch up.
Eonwe Valar: She usually is :}

Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: WoW:
Eonwe Valar: Apparently patch 3.2.2 will bring Onyxia back up to end-game raid status for the 5th anniversary of WoW.
ArPharazonV: *nod* and have you heard the expansionnews/rumors yet?
Eonwe Valar: If you ever wanted to get yourt T2 helm, guess you should do it soon.
Eonwe Valar: I've heard then, but for now that's all I'm willing to consider them: rumors.
Eonwe Valar: *heard them
ArPharazonV: they seem quite detailed, and mmochampion tends to be rather accurate in its rumors, but yes, one should take them with a grain of salt
ArPharazonV: for those who still want to look at the rumors,
Eonwe Valar: Some of the stuff doesn't sit well with me lorewise (not that Blizzard hasn't been known to botch the lore, hence "lolore" and "lorelol") so I hope those are especially are untrue.
ArPharazonV: *nod* I know what you mean :-)
Eonwe Valar: We can talk about the parts I/we don't like in After-meeting if anyone's interested :}
ArPharazonV: sounds fair ;-)
Eonwe Valar: In other 5th Anniversary of WoW news, make sure you log in for your onyxia pet :}
Eonwe Valar: 5th Anniversary is in November :}
Eonwe Valar: I wouldn't mind giving the new Onyxia a go, should we scrounge up enough interest on Lothar to do so, but we all will have to be lvl 80, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar News:
Eonwe Valar: I've been working at the Argent Tourney stuff still, and was pleased to find after 3.2 that my suvivability had been buffed just enough to solo Chillmaw, hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: Uldaman News: I didn't make it there while anyone was gaming this week, but it seems they've been at it.
Eonwe Valar: LotRO:
Eonwe Valar: Looks like the Turtle run went well again this week.
Eonwe Valar: Any other quick gaming news anyone has? :}
ArPharazonV: hmhm
ArPharazonV: got my red protodrake this week for getting all the heroic achievements in WoW
Eonwe Valar: Congrats.
AriehnV: grats :-)
ArPharazonV: also decided I'd grab the remaining gryphons and netherwing drakes I didn't have yet, putting me at 79 mounts, and I already have the 21 figured out without needing hard achievements and rare drops
Eonwe Valar: Good :}
ArPharazonV: granted, now I need all the brewfest achievements, 1000 champion seals, 250 battleground marks and 28000 gold... but I'm working on it! aiming to be done by the end of the year
Eonwe Valar: I'm still at 51 myself :} Decided to blow my big chunk of gold on the Kirin Tor ring instead of getting more mounts :}
Eonwe Valar: Good luck :}
ArPharazonV: I also played some Red Alert 3
ArPharazonV: the campaigns, that is
ArPharazonV: finished the Allied campaign, and am now half way through the campaign of the Rising Sun, aka Japan
ArPharazonV: when I'm done there, I'll need a new game to play but some have already caught my eye :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: You know what question's coming next, don't you Phar? :}
ArPharazonV: what games?
Eonwe Valar: Reviews planned? :}
ArPharazonV: Ah. Right.
ArPharazonV: I'll.... think about it
Eonwe Valar: Ok :}
AriehnV: I moved my wow acivity mainly onto horde side on Argent Dawn
ArPharazonV: I'd say I'll meet you in the battlegrounds then, but I think horde and alliance are in different battlegroups now
ArPharazonV: Wintergrasp perhaps!
Eonwe Valar: One server in two battlegroups?
ArPharazonV: yeah, I think so, the realms that are with us on alliance side seem different from the realms of the horde we face
ArPharazonV: but they might have changed that
Eonwe Valar: That would be an odd way to do things.
Eonwe Valar: Battlegroups are usually entire servers.
ArPharazonV: *shrug* not sure, but that's the way it looks
AriehnV: still got my allies but freed them up again from guild attachments so i can play if i get bored with Horde
AriehnV: i never noticex
AriehnV: noticed so far
ArPharazonV: well you can still join The High Guard if you want, no raiding attachments or anything, just chat
AriehnV: L:-) cool
Eonwe Valar: I guess that does it for gaming news?
ArPharazonV: for me it does, don't know if Flad played any chess or anything
ArPharazonV: oh I'd like to thank Menelvagor for his Red Alert 3 advice to use the aircraft as the Allies
ArPharazonV: focusing on those I've been cruising through the campaign rather well right up to the end
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
Eonwe Valar: I guess we can let Fladrif fill us in on his chess exploits during After-meeting if he's not here right now :}
Eonwe Valar: OK, kept the business meeting under 30 minutes. :} Go us :}
ArPharazonV: Tolkien's not business ;-)
ArPharazonV: ?

Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: Pleasure :}
ArPharazonV: hmm, allright
Eonwe Valar: Or, not business in the same way the other stuff is, if you prefer :}
Eonwe Valar: We did still have Fladrif to tell about Fladrif from the last couple of weeks. We'll catch him though, hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: Pallando as well :}
ArPharazonV: did we get Menelvagor yet?
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Oh, Arien,.. about the RP... :}
Eonwe Valar: Actually, I don't think we did get Menel.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Menel welcome back :-)
Menelvagor Valar: what timing ^^
Eonwe Valar: Arien, in your last post, you call Auros Eonwė :}
Eonwe Valar: And aye Menel, impeccable timing :}
Menelvagor Valar: I actually have some membership news (after I return from the bathroom, as I just got home :P)
Eonwe Valar: OK, go ahead Menel, then you can tell us about Menelvagor and was he/it can tell us about Tolkien's ideals :}
Eonwe Valar: *what he/it
Menelvagor Valar: Righto :-)
Menelvagor Valar: well, 2 things :-)

Menelvagor Valar: First, I *may* move to a new place in a month or so, it's not settled yet, but it can be pretty dang fast.
Eonwe Valar: Congrats I hope? :}
ArPharazonV: congrats if you're moving up in the world ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: Yeah, if all goes well, I'll be moving to one of the bigger cities in Holland, which also happens to be the city I study in.
Menelvagor Valar: Secondly, I've signed up with a fraternity, which will likely limit my online time.
Menelvagor Valar: Although I don't mind that at all, cuz if that goes well, it'll significantly boost my RL social life :-)
Eonwe Valar: Don't let them distract from your studying though :}
Menelvagor Valar: I don't intend to :-)
Eonwe Valar: ok, then have fun :}
Menelvagor Valar: Thanks :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Tomorrow my introduction week will start :-)
Menelvagor Valar: which means pretty much a party every day involving just as much beer and alchohol prolly coming close to what I had in my entire life combined ^^
Eonwe Valar: Careful doing that now :}
Eonwe Valar: Don't want to wake up to find someone's drawn on your face or something :}
Eonwe Valar: In permanent marker :}
Menelvagor Valar: nah, I've got a great tattoo on my back, don't intend to get anything else :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heh, ok :}
Eonwe Valar: *hehe
ArPharazonV: waking up naked tied to a flagpole.. or is that just tv?
Menelvagor Valar: that's tv :-)
ArPharazonV: good for you then :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I've actually chosen an open fraternity, without the.... what's it called in English?
Eonwe Valar: hazing?
Menelvagor Valar: I guess :-)
Eonwe Valar: (Hazarding a guess)
Eonwe Valar: Initiation rites?
Menelvagor Valar: initiation rites I think would be the translation.
Eonwe Valar: Hazing would be when they have you doing demeaning stuff.
Menelvagor Valar: well, that would be part of the initiation rites over here :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I deliberately didn't choose for initiation rites / hazing frats simply because I've had enough demeaning done to me in my entire life to count for almost an entire year's worth of new "recruits".
Eonwe Valar: It used to be in some cases here, some places went to far (or some may argue it shouldn't have happened in the first place), most groups at least openly don't do that anymore.
Eonwe Valar: *too far
ArPharazonV: keyword being openly? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Well, the rules against it, if there were any in the past, are more stringent now.
Menelvagor Valar: well, over here there are some laws that prevent frats from going too far. Although quite technically it's still possible due to secrecy clauses most frats have.
Eonwe Valar: Aye. There's no real way to eliminate it 100%.
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: You can just make it riskier to do it by raising the consequences.
Menelvagor Valar: But this frat, although it has an introduction period (which is partially to see if you can fit in with the others) is based on equality.
Eonwe Valar: Well, I hope you have fun :}
Menelvagor Valar: I intend to!
Menelvagor Valar: But I'm going to be more dead than alive by the time it ends too, I already know that :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
Menelvagor Valar: I'm not exactly the youngest in the bunch :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe :}
Menelvagor Valar: in fact, on average, I am 150% older than the rest of the newbies :P
Eonwe Valar: Scary thought, isn't it? :}
Menelvagor Valar: kinda fun though :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I have the dubious honor to be one of the oldest (if not oldest) still studying members :P
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: OK Menel, if you're ready, tell us about Menel :}
Menelvagor Valar: In what respect? :-D
Eonwe Valar: Tell us about his personality, what he/it stands for, how that reflects Tolkien's ideals.
Menelvagor Valar: You mean my RP char or me personally? :-)
ArPharazonV: the char
Eonwe Valar: Your Tolkien character :}
Eonwe Valar: Last Week I told about Fionwė, Indis told about Indis,, Varda about Varda, etc.

Menelvagor Valar: Well, there's not much to tell about Menelvagor. It's a star.
ArPharazonV: "He's... ehrm... shiny?"
Menelvagor Valar: Or rather, a collection of 3 stars, also known as the Belt of Orion.
Menelvagor Valar: Basically, Menelvagor was created by Varda to light up the night sky along with... Iluin, was it?
Eonwe Valar: Thought he was the entire constellation of Orion, not just the belt :}
Eonwe Valar: Or "it" rather.
Menelvagor Valar: The entire constellation of Orion (as far as known) is the Belt of Orion I think :P  [note: constellation Orion is much more than a belt]
ArPharazonV: wasn't he an actual character at some point in the Lost Tales?
Eonwe Valar: Iluin was one of the Lamps of the Valar.
Menelvagor Valar: Not Iluin then, but the moon :P
Eonwe Valar: Isil :}
Menelvagor Valar: aye, thanks:P
Eonwe Valar: The constellations were created before the moon though, still during the life of the Two Trees.
ArPharazonV: sparks from Aule's anvil if I recall right
ArPharazonV: but that might just be the Caracyria or however it's spelled
Eonwe Valar: Pretty sure that's a version of Valacirca's story :}
ArPharazonV: valacirca?
Menelvagor Valar: Sickle of the Valar
Eonwe Valar: Aye, what Menel said :}
ArPharazonV: then where did I get my name from?
ArPharazonV: Odd. My mind's playing tricks on me.
Eonwe Valar: Calacirya is the Pass of Light which cuts through the Pelori and how the Light of the Two Trees spills onto the Sea.
Menelvagor Valar: you got your name from your pop?
ArPharazonV: ohh is that the Calacirya
ArPharazonV: *sigh* not good at Elvish nams
ArPharazonV: names
Eonwe Valar: Calion is gold
Eonwe Valar: well, "golden"
ArPharazonV: that, I know
ArPharazonV: so is Pharaz
ArPharazonV: but anyway, it was slightly similar :-)
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, continue Menel :}
Eonwe Valar: What was going on while Varda was creating these stars and constellations?
Menelvagor Valar: Well, that's all I can remember for Menelvagor :P
Eonwe Valar: Or immediately before even?
Menelvagor Valar: I have lots more to say on my older name, Turgon though :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe :}
ArPharazonV: wasn't there more about Menelvagor in the Lost Tales?
ArPharazonV: son of Tulkas or something?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, there is.
Menelvagor Valar: It's been a while :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Oh btw!
Menelvagor Valar: I just bought the entire HOME series :-)
Eonwe Valar: Menelvagor was one of the Valar at that time.
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
ArPharazonV: yay!
Eonwe Valar: Hardback or paperback?
Menelvagor Valar: paper
ArPharazonV: hmm, publisher?
Eonwe Valar: WoW :} Only got up to about Book 9 in Paperback. Ended up going Hardback to get the rest, so of course I had to backtrack and get the rest hardback too :}
Eonwe Valar: I know Del Rey put out 1-5 in paperback here in the States.
ArPharazonV: I think I got the entire series in paperback from... Harper Collins
Eonwe Valar: Think Houghton Mifflin Put out 6-9 plus what I think is part of Book 10 in paperback.
ArPharazonV: yep, harper collins it is
Eonwe Valar: Harper Collins seems to be the British distributor.
ArPharazonV: could be, I think I got them ordered out of England
Eonwe Valar: WOuld make sense :}
Eonwe Valar: To spark your memory, Menel, just before Varda went out to create more stars, bring older ones together as constellations, the Valar were having a little chat :}
Menelvagor Valar: Well, I guess the chat was about the slaying of the two moons, and the imminent awakening of the Eldar.
Menelvagor Valar: And prolly Varda didn't want them to awaken in total darkness.
Eonwe Valar: Slaying two moons?
Menelvagor Valar: trees :P
Eonwe Valar: Hadn't happened yet :}
Menelvagor Valar: well, then it's the lamps :P
Eonwe Valar: Yavanna and Orome were telling the Council about what was going on in the outside world.
Eonwe Valar: I'm sure we can all guess who wanted to march off to war immediately? :}
Menelvagor Valar: Orome!
Eonwe Valar: Everybody save"Tulkas" with me now :}
Eonwe Valar: *save = say
Menelvagor Valar: Oh doh!
ArPharazonV: hmm, could it be... Tulkas?
Menelvagor Valar: been entirely too long since I read Sil :P
Menelvagor Valar: I'll be deviant and say Ar-Pharazon *grin*
Eonwe Valar: I'm skimming the area :}
Eonwe Valar: Right at the front of "Of the Coming of the Elves" :}
Eonwe Valar: Someone who doesn't speak much then spoke... (Everybody say "Mandos" :})
AriehnV: Mandos
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Arien :}
Eonwe Valar: He tells the Council that the Firstborn are to awaken in darkness, and first look upon the stars, that in need they would call to Varda.
Eonwe Valar: That's when Varda goes out and creates new stars with the light of Telperion, and groups older stars together into constellations.
Eonwe Valar: "Menelmacar with his shining belt." :}
Eonwe Valar: Menelmacar is another name for Menelvagor as you all know (but someone reading the transcript may not) :}
Menelvagor Valar: hehe :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Anyways.
Menelvagor Valar: I'm off to bed, I gotta wake up in little more than 5 hours.
Eonwe Valar: Aw, ok :}
Menelvagor Valar: don't want to be late on my first day, right? :-D
Eonwe Valar: By the way, Menelvagor forbodes the Last Battle :}
Menelvagor Valar: w00t :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Another use aside from the all-boring *cough* illumination.
Eonwe Valar: I think that can show Tolkien's ideal that there will be an end of evil :}
Eonwe Valar: Hehe :}
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie everyone.
Eonwe Valar: Anyway Menel, there's your cheat sheet for next time you have to talk about your character :}
AriehnV: Namarie , friend Menelvagor
Eonwe Valar: Take care and Sleep well :}
ArPharazonV: Namarie Menel
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
AriehnV: the light is never useless tho .. it protects many beings from Morgoths evil creatures
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
AriehnV: not exactly boring
ArPharazonV: quite valuable indeed
ArPharazonV: of course, when the moon and later the sun came up...
ArPharazonV: starlight wasn't so useful all the time anymore
Eonwe Valar: Well, Morgoth's minions moved under starlight anyway before the loss of the Two Trees.
Eonwe Valar: Two Wars of Beleriand were fought under the stars.
AriehnV: there is nothing so impressive than a completely clear nightsky in the Highlands far away from any city lights :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm sure :}
AriehnV: err *as*
Eonwe Valar: Clear night skies in the country are indeed wonderful.
ArPharazonV: hmm, I've always wanted to see that at some point
ArPharazonV: just stand somewhere in the open at night with now other lights nearby and just watching the shadows from moon and stars
ArPharazonV: you never see them when artificial lights are near, even it it's just a lamppost somewhere
AriehnV: well worth seeing Phara :-) , you can do that in the netherlands as well :-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
AriehnV: certainly lig
ArPharazonV: well I've never really come across a place without artificial lights so maybe I just live too urban ;-)
AriehnV: err lifts up the i mean , not at all in the sense of Morgoth
Eonwe Valar: I live far enough away from the city that I can get a decent night sky, but not so far that I have to drive a long distance to get somewhere.
AriehnV: lifts up spirit and heart

Eonwe Valar: Would anyone like to delve into another Tolkien topic, shall we give a couple of minutes to the RP, or shall we move into After-meeting?
AriehnV: After meeting i d suggest , since the other rpers are not here at the mo
AriehnV: Varda was the last poster after Frali
Eonwe Valar: I think the question was whether it was Frali or Estarion that would slip and fall,.. or was that question resolved?
AriehnV: i suggested that Frali would be the one
AriehnV: he is youngest , clumsiest , the most inexperienced
AriehnV: and he is tired and a bit fed up
Eonwe Valar: Fair enough.
AriehnV: he feels really awkward amongst all the elves poor boy
Eonwe Valar: Ah, that's right, last week it was mentioned that the horses tearing up the riverbank would make it slick and muddy, a prime place to slip in.
AriehnV: sounds good
Eonwe Valar: I've been trying to envision where Auros would be during all this. Doesn't seem to me he'd be near the riverbank.
Eonwe Valar: Not if he had time to get clear, anyway.
AriehnV: would Auros be the first one to cross actually and Frali stay behind to watch the rear?
Eonwe Valar: Auros is watching the horses on the Halls side of the river, Meren on the opposite side.
Eonwe Valar: Fainan and Calion manning the boat.
AriehnV: ah right yeah i forgot , and Frali is there to assist Auros
Eonwe Valar: Horses would go across before Auros.
AriehnV: in case of any attack
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, I suppose we can let that be for now, or take up the discussion in the discussion thread.
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*

Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting:
AriehnV: :-)
ArPharazonV: sorry, was afk for a bit
AriehnV: oh i forgot to mention i bought a complete guide to elvish , complete sindarin and quenia linguistic research with grammar m alphabets and dictionaries
ArPharazonV: I thought Auros was going to be one of the last to cross over
ArPharazonV: oh, cool
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
AriehnV: its a german one i fear , but the Author is Helmut W. Pesch
Eonwe Valar: And Auros is going to be one of the last.
Eonwe Valar: I've got a minor in german, so there's a chance I could understand some of it :}
AriehnV: i think he is a co editor of the Robert Foster Guide to Middleearth
ArPharazonV: well my language is somewhat related to German but I was never very good at it
Eonwe Valar: Cool.
ArPharazonV: I could probably figure out some words I might still remember but not much
AriehnV: as far as i could see he used mainly Tolkiens own resources and one other
Eonwe Valar: Cool.
AriehnV: so aye it was quite fascinating to read the linguistic part .. it was a bit boring , to see how the languages develloped and such
AriehnV: but still enlightening
AriehnV: two small appendices about khuzdul and orcish/ the black language
AriehnV: just to add for completion sake in the script
AriehnV: Title:"Das Grosse Elbisch Buch", by Helmut W. Pesch , published in Bastei Luebbe Verlag
Eonwe Valar: The Big Elvish Book, hehe :}
ArPharazonV: or the fat elvish book :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
AriehnV: Hehe aye ^^
AriehnV: ah well i ll let you off boys :-) i ll see you next week :-) and may be Phara sometime online

ArPharazonV: hmm, looking back over the meeting it may be so that while alliance and horde are indeed in the same battlegroup
Eonwe Valar: Take care Arien :}
ArPharazonV: you always face a different battlegroup instead
ArPharazonV: Namarie Arien
AriehnV: so actually could we meet?
ArPharazonV: would still mean we couldn't meet, no
AriehnV: cool :-)
ArPharazonV: because the battlegroup I'd face is not the one you're in
ArPharazonV: maybe battlegroups are paired up these days
AriehnV: i am glad we are not on opposite sides in a bg :-)
ArPharazonV: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Usually battlegroups are the groups of realms pitted against one another. I assume if it's different from that you could find out on the WoW community page for your area.
ArPharazonV: it would be the main way of meeting each other though, unless maybe we pass each other in Dalaran
Eonwe Valar: They do have battlegroups listing somewhere in there that are bound to have such info.
ArPharazonV: yes, Eonwe, but the groups I always get on Alliance are different from the ones we face as alliance with them being horde
AriehnV: I thin mine are in Cyclone now
ArPharazonV: and I don't run into horde from my own server
ArPharazonV: but I can't be sure, that might have changed again recently
pallandovalar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: maybe that was only temporary
AriehnV: i lll check the armory
ArPharazonV: best way to check would be to go into a bg
ArPharazonV: if I do that this week I'll let you know ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok :}

WoW expansion storyline:
Eonwe Valar: Heya Pallando.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Pallando
AriehnV: Catlaclysm
AriehnV: Aiya Pallando :-)
AriehnV: err Cataclysm
Eonwe Valar: That's what the rumor-mill is saying the next expansion is called.
Eonwe Valar: Er, you mean the battlegroup, pardon.
AriehnV: lol thats the Battlegroup Kerridys (formerly Justicia) and Darkaria are in
ArPharazonV: "cataclysm" seems a bit odd for an expansion name, might just be a working title
AriehnV: I like the story line tho , a young colleague told me this morning
AriehnV: makes actually sense
Eonwe Valar: Thrall shouldn't be the Guardian of Tirisfal.
ArPharazonV: nor should Malfurion have anything to do with the guardians of Tirisfal
AriehnV: Garrosh is a bit less than stable .. he attacked Thrall
ArPharazonV: Garrosh is going to have Cairne killed as a traitor
Eonwe Valar: No one who isn't a high Elf/Blood Elf or human mage should have anything to do with the ORder of Tirisfal.
AriehnV: so i heard
Eonwe Valar: That's part of the rumour, aye.
AriehnV: but if Malfurion wants to heal the rift .. , i understand it sounds a bit iffy tho
AriehnV: the last Guardians were posessed by Sargeras
Eonwe Valar: Thrall leaving the Horde in Garrosh's hands isn't a smart move either for an orc who claims he wants peace.
ArPharazonV: "Now behave while I'm gone, Garrosh..."
AriehnV: he is the only one tho who has a bloodline honorable enough
ArPharazonV: "Yeah yeah... (right)"
Eonwe Valar: Medivh was possessed by Sargeras, aye, but then at the end of WC3 after he amends his actions by uniting peoples of Azeroth against the Burning Legion, he states the world no longer has a need for "Guardians."
ArPharazonV: I also heard about a son of Garona and Medivh in some literature (becoming awfully soap-ish if you ask me) who was supposed to have Guardian powers
AriehnV: hmmphh ok
AriehnV: , grin aye , i thought she was after Kadgar ?
Eonwe Valar: Either way, though, the Order of Tirisfal was set up by the mageocracy to fight the demons that rampant use of magic allowed into the world, empowering one of their own with great power to fight demons that would normally take a group of mages to kill.
ArPharazonV: hmm, odd lik
ArPharazonV: link
AriehnV: ah well never mind ^^ they will smooth it out i guess by the time its ripe for official end results
Eonwe Valar: Aye, apparently Garona, who is half orc/half draenei, has a son by Medivh, who is thus half human, one quarter orc, and one quarter draenei.
ArPharazonV: there we go
Eonwe Valar: He is supposedly a powerful mage, and will also learn the ways of the light (conveniently) from his uncle, who is a Draenei Vindicator.
ArPharazonV: the order of Tirisfal was founded to battle demons, indeed..
ArPharazonV: not Naga and the Black Dragonflight as the expansion claims Thrall's role to be
Eonwe Valar: By mages, not shaman, paladins, druids, or whatever hodgepodge of "magic" users that wants to get together.
Eonwe Valar: It was specifically arcane magic that was the problem.
Eonwe Valar: The High Elves had runestones to shield their magic use to some degree. Once humans were taught magic, however, things got a little less controlled.
AriehnV: ah fascinating .. hence the warlocks there
Eonwe Valar: As unlikable as some would find it, Rhonin being Guardian of Tirisfal would make more sense lorewise than Thrall.
AriehnV: anyway i need to get upstairs before my typing or reasoning becomes somewhat unconrolled ^^
Eonwe Valar: Well, warlocks are delving in what the mageocracy of Dalaran would consider forbidden magics (fel magic). Arcane magic is addictive, but not necessarily evil of itself.
Eonwe Valar: Hehe. Sleep well :}
AriehnV: Namarie :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: hmm, what's Vereesa's story, anyway? wasn't she connected to Rhonin? never read that book
Eonwe Valar: I'm not fond of "Tauren Paladins" either. I'm not convinced. Tauren would give up their religion for the Light.
ArPharazonV: we have both elven druids and priests though
Eonwe Valar: Vereesa Windrunnner?
Eonwe Valar: Night Elf Priests follow Elune.
ArPharazonV: yep, the youngest of the 3 Windrunner siblings
Eonwe Valar: Same mechanics for ease of programming, but a separate religion from the Light.
ArPharazonV: so tauren priests could be done, but not paladins?
Eonwe Valar: Paladins specifically follow the Light.
Eonwe Valar: Priests are not so specific.
Eonwe Valar: Well, Vereesa is another of the problems many people have with Rhonin, a reason they call him a Mary-Sue.
ArPharazonV: well, he kinda was, probably
ArPharazonV: then again, wasn't Thrall?
Eonwe Valar: She apparently dislikes humans, but somehow, he manages not only to convince her humans are ok, but wins her heart, and then they proceed to have twins, which are extremely rare in the cases of human/elf pairings.
ArPharazonV: hmmm, lucky him
Eonwe Valar: The people who vehemently hate Rhonin could explain why they hate him better than I :} I'm not really committed for or against him.
Eonwe Valar: It's basically a list of these amazing things he somehow manages to get/do that are rare or exceptional that make people consider him a Mary Sue. Plus, apparently Knaak has red hair, and so does Rhonin.
Eonwe Valar: I've never seen a picture of Knaak, so I can't vouch for that.
ArPharazonV: hmm... Rhonin somehow got involved in that little conflict 10000 years ago, wasn't he?
Eonwe Valar: Richard Knaak is the guy who created Rhonin.
ArPharazonV: now that's a reason to hate him
ArPharazonV: yeah, I heard his name
ArPharazonV: not in positive context
Eonwe Valar: Yep, War of the Ancients, where he managed to be the most powerful mage there.
Eonwe Valar: That he would be powerful that close to the Well of Eternity made sense to me. Mages in the current time are used to drawing upon whatever energies from the Well are lingering in the atmosphere. He was standing next to that power in its pure form.
ArPharazonV: hmm, all I can find of him on the internet is black and white pictures, so... yeah
Eonwe Valar: What does seem a little *too* much though is that apparently he taught Illidan.
ArPharazonV: Hah.
Eonwe Valar: Another "too much" moment would be that a lone orc managed to tear through an army of demons and stab Sargeras in the foot.
ArPharazonV: Again. Hah.
ArPharazonV: it does seem a bit over the top, yes
Eonwe Valar: with an axe made of wood given to him by Cenarius. (or stab him, pretty sure it was the foot)
Eonwe Valar: And of course, Tyrande befriends this orc.
ArPharazonV: of course
Eonwe Valar: That should give you an idea of why there are alot of people who don't like Knaak's writing.
ArPharazonV: wouldn't we then expect her in Warcraft 3 to go "Oh, these greenskins, they look vaguely familiar...."
Eonwe Valar: Yeah, pretty much. Same with Cenarius.
Eonwe Valar: "Hey guys. We've seen your kind before. How can we help you? By the way, please quit chopping down our sacred groves."
ArPharazonV: haha
Eonwe Valar: "We'll show you how to getthe lumber without killing the tree." :}
ArPharazonV: you think the ancestral spirits would work for them?
ArPharazonV: well, maybe to conserve the tree
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: *If* tyrande had met a "good orc" long ago, I think she'd remember they could be dealt with reasonably.
ArPharazonV: well 10000 years is a long time to forget someone
Eonwe Valar: Then again, we're talking about the same person who thought Illidan could be trusted over the better judgement of his own brother.
ArPharazonV: that too
ArPharazonV: he did end up saving her life though in Frozen Throne!
Eonwe Valar: Yeah, after absorbing the skull of Gul'dan and pledging himself to Kil'Jaden.
Eonwe Valar: *Kil'Jaeden.
ArPharazonV: ehh, details

fladrifv: namarie
Eonwe Valar: Take care Fladrif.
ArPharazonV: namarie
fladrifv: sorry for being a bit afk today
ArPharazonV: no matter, you can talk about the values your character represents next week!
Eonwe Valar: :}
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending
Eonwe Valar: Ok Phar.