Valar Guild

September 7, 2008 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (6)
    Aerandir-(V)/mordacil, Arien-(Valar)/AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Dragoncon in Atlanta report by Aerandir-(V) during Before-meeting.
    Melkor's birthday
    Games Page Mass Update (GPMU) begins today.
    Hobbit archers, food, government.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
mordacil has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
mordacil: hi
ArPharazonV: hi
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
VardaValar1: I mistyped
VardaValar1: left out the g
Eonwe Valar: NP.
ArPharazonV: indeedy you did
Eonwe Valar: Out of 10 people sent an invitation by me, 3 are here, 1 declined, 6 are pending.
VardaValar1: Paladin said hello, but he had to go in 2 minutes
Eonwe Valar: That explains the 1 decline.
VardaValar1: Maybe if I took this bandaid off my finger I could type. 1 sec.
VardaValar1: Much better!
ArPharazonV: and that explains the odd new chatroom ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Hope whatever it was on was healded first :}
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Aerandir, good to see you again. :-)
VardaValar1: Hit it with a cleaver, just glancing. Seems to be better now, np.
mordacil: thanks, ive jsut been constantly busy
VardaValar1: Please exit the odd chatroom. : )
mordacil: probably gonna have to leave in an hour or so, and working on making brass goggles as we speak
VardaValar1: It's that time of year, Aerandir. Glad you had a second to come here
VardaValar1: O cool!
ArPharazonV: oh dear, this again...
ArPharazonV: black background everywhere
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: It came off Mordacil's black background, for me it only shows on his.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Ariehn
mordacil: I went to the big convention here in the southeast, dragoncon in atlanta
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien
AriehnV: aiya all#
ArPharazonV: for me it showed on him, and on you when you replied directly after him
mordacil: saw the steampunk ascetics and really liked it
VardaValar1: Great! See anything you want to tell about?
VardaValar1: What is that?
mordacil: a blend of victorian clothing styles with vernian type technology
mordacil: lots of brass
VardaValar1: Vernian?
mordacil: jules verne
VardaValar1: Ah nifty :-)
mordacil: gadgets that run on clockwork and steam
VardaValar1: Could you tell about one of them?
mordacil: they had a big parade too, with all kinds of characters in waves from stormtroopers to elven archers
VardaValar1: *grabs a flight to Atlanta*
VardaValar1: I guess Aerandir is back to working on those goggles. Thanks for the report on the con!

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Elwing has been running in WoW with someone who enjoys our website, don't know if he/she will develop into a member but it's possible.
VardaValar1: I have been remiss in working on recruiting attempts this week.
VardaValar1: Melkor had a birthday this week according to the Forum. : )
VardaValar1: Elwing is visiting my house right now.
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
ArPharazonV: congrats Melkor
AriehnV: Helm hasnt been able to download aim yet but wishes to be remembered
VardaValar1: Thanks, we appreciate that.
VardaValar1: Pick on him by telling him it takes under 5 minutes. ; )
AriehnV: hehe ok will do ;-)
VardaValar1: to anyone reading this.
VardaValar1: Gimli's wife has finished listening to the audio tapes of LotR.
AriehnV: wow that takes stamina
mordacil: i listened to them whenever i drove my car
ArPharazonV: how much time does that take? if you did it in one go?
mordacil: thats how I got through them
AriehnV: i think they are each one hour long
AriehnV: something like that
VardaValar1: I would be hard put to it to read them aloud in 1 hour.
AriehnV: 13 all
ArPharazonV: :-)
AriehnV: so `13 hours
ArPharazonV: 13 hours? that's quite a marathon
ArPharazonV: how long is the total extended movie trilogy? about 11 hours, or less?
VardaValar1: That's why they would be listened to over long periods of driving.
mordacil: about 12 hours
mordacil: I did an all day marathon of them once
VardaValar1: The movie leaves out a lot even with 12 hours.
mordacil: yeah
mordacil: but theyre still fun to see
mordacil: had a bunch of people over for a group viewing
ArPharazonV: impressive, really.. 13 hours of book, 12 hours of movie, and such a difference in content... what did they do to fill up the movies then? credits? landscape shots?
VardaValar1: Aye, great party thing. : )
AriehnV: /
VardaValar1: Aren't pictures supposed to be able to show more content than words. Interesting.
AriehnV: quick brb late dinner ...
Eonwe Valar: The movie credits are almost 30-60 minutes long in and of themselves.
ArPharazonV: you'd think it would go faster then, no, Varda?
VardaValar1: Eat hearty : )
VardaValar1: Guess not. : )
ArPharazonV: enjoy your meal
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?

VardaValar1: Web:
ArPharazonV: maybe the invidual battles and duels etc take up a lot of time...
ArPharazonV: but I do not wish to disturb the meeting with my rambling :-)
VardaValar1: I apologize for not having put up a batch of stories from Jay of Lasgalen. I would like to see more stories and articles and art, etc from Full Members. : )
mordacil has left the room.
VardaValar1: Ahh, here's an url from
VardaValar1: Aerandir:
VardaValar1: It shows an example of the kind of Vernian thing he saw at the Dragoncon.
VardaValar1: His internet is acting badly, running very slowly, and he may have just crashed.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you have web news, go ahead. : )
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: Short story short:
Eonwe Valar: Due to circumstances, I haven't sent out the GPMU mails yet, but will do it tonight. If you want to go ahead and give me your gaming info in a side window now, you won't have to answer when I send out the e-mail,
Eonwe Valar: though, of course, you're still welcome to read it.
AriehnV: /]=
AriehnV: /
AriehnV: back
Eonwe Valar: That's all.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Trying to invite AerandirV but he found his own way in! Yay!
Aerandir V: aiya. lost connection
Eonwe Valar: Welcome back Aerandir.
VardaValar1: Glad you made it back. We put your url in the chat room so everyone could look. : )
Eonwe Valar: Aerandir, I just announced that if you want to give me your gaming information in a side-window here and now, you can, and then you won't have to when you receive the GPMU mail tonight.
VardaValar1: Also helps in case there's a problem with Valar mail being filtered out.
Aerandir V: ok thanks
VardaValar1: Impressive worksmanship
Eonwe Valar: I'm going to do the mailing in smaller chunks to try and avoid that this year. I can only imagine how many people have not received the Games Page Mass-Update letter these past 6 years.
Aerandir V: i didnt do that, that was made by a guy I saw at the convention
VardaValar1: Some filter us out for having multiple addressees.
Aerandir V: its just an example of the genre
VardaValar1: Aye, understood. Amazing they go to that much effort and expense.
VardaValar1: I think Eonwe is collecting info in the side window, so he went quiet here. : )

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Did anyone play any games besides WoW or LotRO this past week?
Eonwe Valar: Gimli let us know on the Forum that the beta for Darkfall is in effect now.
Eonwe Valar: Or rather, beta signup is.
Eonwe Valar:
ArPharazonV: I did play a few games, but not much
Eonwe Valar: The game does seem interesting, but it is an MMO, so whether any of you want to get involved in another right now is up to you.
ArPharazonV: some Raving Rabbids and a bit of a small platform game called Pharaoh's Curse Gold
VardaValar1: WoW and LotRO are almost more than I can handle already. Sorry.
ArPharazonV: in which you control a treasure hunter who has to solve levels by taking and using certain kinds of tools, grabbing all the treasure and opening the door to the next level
ArPharazonV: oh! and one evening I did some SC: BW with Fladrif, a few games
ArPharazonV: and that's it from me, so continue with your main reports :-)
VardaValar1: We had mass SC:BW LAN going on this week at my house, including some today.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar : )
VardaValar1: We can see if anyone wants to game after today's meeting together in one or more games. : )
VardaValar1: World of WarCraft:
VardaValar1: Europe:
VardaValar1: Arien, did you get to meet up with any Valarites? Helm, I think?
AriehnV: yes i see Helm online almost every day but we did do nothing special together a bit questing on our Horde characters which are still small
VardaValar1: (Oh, D&D started back up at my house, including Gimli, Sauron DM, and me.)
ArPharazonV: (wants to join!)
AriehnV: we started playing again on Auchindoun which we stopped for a while
AriehnV: but we both got a bit bored with alliance so .. i am paying regular visits to Bloodhoof while levelling the Hordies
VardaValar1: Why did you go to Auchindoun?
AriehnV: its a pvp server and that bug bit me hard ;-)
VardaValar1: Thanks, just curious.
AriehnV: i gave up leader ship of my guild to be able to do that but still assisting the new guild master
AriehnV: thats it from me
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien. : )
VardaValar1: Phar, did you get to see any Valarites this past week?
ArPharazonV: I occasionally noticed Ondoline logging off a few times, that's Menelvagor, but I didn't get a chance to speak to him
ArPharazonV: he might not be in Valar either, or I just haven't seen him there, the char's in my friendslist and that's why I noticed it
VardaValar1: Good to hear he's able to game again. : )
AriehnV: i actually was on argent dawn for an hour about five to six this evening
ArPharazonV: five to six? hmm... that is exactly the hour I logged out for a shower and some food....
AriehnV: nah you were in arathi basin i think
ArPharazonV: oh wait, you're in an earlier timezone.. I should've seen you then
AriehnV: so i didnt want to disturb
ArPharazonV: yes, that's likely, I was trying for the pvp daily quest
ArPharazonV: disturbing me is always allright when you're a friend :-)
AriehnV: ::-)
ArPharazonV: if I can't talk at some given time, I'd let you know
AriehnV: thats good to know
AriehnV: i ve been trying to catch Valandil but he is harder than you and thats saying a bit
ArPharazonV: haha
AriehnV: anyway i mailed him and reminded him of the aim meetings
VardaValar1: Thanks
ArPharazonV: oh, yes, I saw Valandile online too.. well.. as always, I saw him log off
ArPharazonV: I really need to notice people when they come online instead :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Sorry, seems to be a lot of side windowing. : )
ArPharazonV: that's ok, I'm entertaining myself by checking up on forums (or is that fora?), my multitude of downloads in bittorrent and other internet stuff...
ArPharazonV: even when I'm not doing anything, I'm still doing a lot! or at least, my pc is
VardaValar1: okies, Lothar server?
VardaValar1: Eonwe?
ArPharazonV: go ahead, I'm listening!
Eonwe Valar: Afraid I didn't spend alot of time on WoW this week.
VardaValar1: How about the Friday get-together?
Eonwe Valar: Might've stopped in, said his to a couple of people like Fangorn and Eowyn, but not a whole lot else.
Eonwe Valar: his = hi
Eonwe Valar: Afraid I didn't make it.
VardaValar1: I was on some during the week and that Friday earlier, but had to cede the computer to raiders later on Friday.
VardaValar1: So for Friday we had Bilbo, Eowyn, Elwing, Sauron, Fangorn, and myself
VardaValar1: For Uldaman server's Wednesday Hordeing,
VardaValar1: we had Fangorn, Elwing, and myself.
VardaValar1: We are working on collecting guild bank money, tricky at our low levels and not playing enough, but we pitched more at it. : )
VardaValar1: For LotRO:
VardaValar1: Landroval server, just to mention since we did for the other games,
VardaValar1: We are trying to make some special run times, set up by Warlords.
VardaValar1: Ancalagon is such a one and his second run also went off well.
VardaValar1: We went through the Black Crack into Goblin Town
VardaValar1: and all the way to kill the Goblin Chief.
VardaValar1: We started with a full group of 6 Valarites, all level 50 (top)
VardaValar1: and as some had to leave, filled in their spots with other Valarites.
VardaValar1: Since we're all friends, it went quite smoothly on the changes.
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: We are working on how to get the word out to members.
VardaValar1: LotRO kinmail that automatically goes to all kinmembers seems to work well.
ArPharazonV: oh, that's neat
ArPharazonV: could put out a newsletter or something that way
VardaValar1: It can be done by any officer, and I give officer status to Warlords, who are very active and good LotRO players.
VardaValar1: We have a News page and Forum. : )
ArPharazonV: yes, but true, for strictly LotrO related stuff :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thinking about it, think I'll have to send one out to tell people to look to their inboxes for the GPMU mail.
VardaValar1: Feel free to send anything you like to print on the News or use the Forum.
ArPharazonV: *true, but
VardaValar1: We also have a LotRO section on the Forum.
VardaValar1: Aye, we use the kinmail for special events.
VardaValar1: The mail can clog up rapidly.
VardaValar1: We also used the kin message of the day to spread the word, and the News.
ArPharazonV: hmm, Eonwe... sending mail telling people to check their mail telling people to check their mail...
VardaValar1: Word of mouth helped as always.
VardaValar1: This is just in LotROmail that we do the kin events. : )
VardaValar1: Both Anc and I thought the other was going to put up the info on the Forum, so we missed that.
VardaValar1: Next time, it is going up.
Eonwe Valar: No, sending in-game mail, to tell peopel to check their out-of-game mail to send me an out-of-game mail :}
VardaValar1: We found out that Friday evening and Saturday morning seem to work well.
VardaValar1: eww
VardaValar1: Actually, I could kin message to email game info to Eonwe. : ) Not mail.
VardaValar1: Eonwe could do that too, since he's an officer. : )
Eonwe Valar: True, message of the day is useful that way too :}
VardaValar1: We need to remember to put gaming runs on the forum to help people learn they can sign up there,
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: and because we have a number of members cross-guilded.
fladrifv: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Fladrif. :-)
VardaValar1: Connection looking better?
AriehnV: Aiyata, Ent :-)]
VardaValar1: You had a report for us on a game called Spore?
fladrifv: Aye I do
fladrifv: I have been fiddeling around with the very primitive sof life
fladrifv: to help them step up from one cell to a massive land crawler
fladrifv: its basically a new game from maxis
fladrifv: it gives a total freedom of building your own master animal
VardaValar1: So, you put up an obelisk...?
fladrifv: with legs!
ArPharazonV: haha
fladrifv: 14 eyes
fladrifv: and an electrified tail
VardaValar1: *runs*
ArPharazonV: I've seen youtube movies of people creating... well, creatures.. that are based on things from WoW
fladrifv: very qute if I may say
VardaValar1: *skids to a halt since it can't hurt*
ArPharazonV: moonkin, tiny magmadars, little taurens, etc
VardaValar1: So, how do we get to try this?
fladrifv: lets see if they released a demo
VardaValar1: Buy it somewhere?
Eonwe Valar: It should be out today actually, if memory serves.
ArPharazonV: they released a free feature which you can use to build up creatures some time ago
ArPharazonV: might be able to get it somewhere still
AriehnV: i think actually Helm has got thjat one
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Dracxil's been watching this game as well.
fladrifv: ah the creature creater is free
AriehnV: i ll ask him tomorrow
fladrifv: its out in stores aye
Eonwe Valar: So I guess the secret is out now, Varda....
VardaValar1: Love to try the creature creator. Where do we find it legally? : )
fladrifv: I boughtmy copy in a store here
fladrifv: so it should be out world wide
VardaValar1: We try to tell them all they need is musical instruments and a good theme.
VardaValar1: Thank you.
ArPharazonV: I think I'll go look for it in a store somewhere this week :-)
Eonwe Valar: How we got Melkor to go into the Void. Threw a laptop with this on it through the Doors of Night. :}
VardaValar1: I'm going to have to check it out.
VardaValar1: hehehe
ArPharazonV: as a fun example :-)
Eonwe Valar: Is that the one with Robin Williams?
VardaValar1: Very short, but gets the idea across.
ArPharazonV: is longer
VardaValar1: Looks like quite a list of them.
Eonwe Valar: There's one where Robin Williams is making a Spore creature, if you're amused by Robin WIlliams.
ArPharazonV: hmm, apparently there's even little Illidans....
ArPharazonV: I think I might make some Zerg creatures when I get it.... see if I can get an ultralisk out of it or something

VardaValar1: So, for our Tolkien topic, which was going to be very short on Hobbit archers,
VardaValar1: we could do how creation operated in Middle-earth.
VardaValar1: Or you can suggest something. : )
Eonwe Valar: Very short on Hobbit archers,... do I sense a pun there?
ArPharazonV: was thinking the same thing, but not sure if pun is the right word
VardaValar1: *punt*
VardaValar1: We know Hobbit archers were sent to Fornost, so they had been around a good while.
Eonwe Valar: In fact, I believe they were sent twice to Fornost :}
VardaValar1: And we know Hobbit archers were good enough to kill Grima Wormtongue.
VardaValar1: So archery must have been something not all that uncommon.
ArPharazonV: ( as last link, showing how the things are built)
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Hobbits are known for their accuracy as I recall.
ArPharazonV: they probably used archery for the hunt, if they ever hunted
Eonwe Valar: Well, known to those who knew of them in the first place, anyway.
VardaValar1: Hobbits, especially dads, may have to add to what they can grow to feed their families and people.
VardaValar1: As much as Hobbits like to eat, they would probably try every source.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Sam had no qualms about stewing up a couple of rabbits.
ArPharazonV: did they actually hunt for their meat, or is there mention of livestock?
Eonwe Valar: Seems they were familiar with pack animals like ponies at least.
ArPharazonV: true
Eonwe Valar: Probably had something from which they got milk, to drink and for cheese.
Eonwe Valar: cows might be too big. Sheep or goats perhaps.
Aerandir V has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
AriehnV: and it was the Tooks and their ancestors that excelled in the hunt
Eonwe Valar: Of course, when in doubt, flipping to the Prologue "Concerning Hobbits" in FotR is a good start.
AriehnV: if servers me right
AriehnV: + memory
Eonwe Valar: Hobbits are roughly 4 to 4.5 feet tall, so since that rules out horses, I tend to think they'd avoid cattle as well.
VardaValar1: Ponies are ok.
ArPharazonV: maybe they could breed a smaller cow..
Eonwe Valar: Actually, some can be as short as two feet, ouch. That's short.
ArPharazonV: the pony equivalent of cattle
VardaValar1: Aye, you can breed for smaller cattle or any other kind of animal.
AriehnV: given that the smallest horse in the world is abut 3 ft high .. or around that
VardaValar1: Sam did quite well with a pony. Merry had his own ponies.
AriehnV: aye ... i remember the description ... something to do with that they were not made for beauty but *sturdyily built , such as hobbits loved them , good for a long day's work* or something like it
VardaValar1: We can assume that the Hobbits as well as hunting would gather berries (plant and eat), and roots (same), and other things.
ArPharazonV: they'd probably rely on agriculture for most vegetative resources, though
Eonwe Valar: The Harfoots seemed to like farming.
VardaValar1: Aye, farming would be the main food resource.
VardaValar1: Hunting and gathering could supplement.
VardaValar1: Likely it was only some Hobbits that would do such things.
VardaValar1: But they would need to protect their crops from rabbits and their livestock and selves from animals.
VardaValar1: Anything really bad would be stopped by the Rangers at the borders, like goblins.
Eonwe Valar: Fallowhides tended to hunting, and were the more adventerous ones.
VardaValar1: Sam was a Harfoot, Frodo was a Fallohide.
ArPharazonV: they were invaded by wolves at some point, would have had needed to defend themselves from those
ArPharazonV: arrows could be good
VardaValar1: True.
Eonwe Valar: "If any Hobbit stooped for a stone, it was well to get quickly under cover, as all trespassing beasts knew very well."
VardaValar1: Something as small as a Hobbit would like to have ranged weapons, as toe to toe would not be so healthy.
VardaValar1: Aye, good point, Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: They had store of weapons from having fought to hold their own in the world, but a culmination of events made the Shire such a safe place, by Bilbo's time there hadn't been a battle in living memory.
VardaValar1: Still, that means the knowledge could have been handed down.
ArPharazonV: they seemed to have maintained their skill in some way, might have been genetic
VardaValar1: Real archery, perhaps rattan swords for "play".
ArPharazonV: as they showed when they shot Wormtongue
Eonwe Valar: Aye, especially among the more adventurous Fallowhide-blooded Hobbits (Tooks, Brandybucks...)
VardaValar1: And it was three hobbits shooting together
Eonwe Valar: They didn't kill for sport, which indicates they killed for food/clothing.
Eonwe Valar: /protection when necessary.
AriehnV: and i remember Sam throwing that apple for Bill Ferny was well aimed when they left Bree with Aragorn
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
VardaValar1: Right. Sam would throw it as he would have thrown a stone.
Aerandir V has left the room.
VardaValar1: "Waste of a good apple."
AriehnV: Ferny's luck that Sam had no stone handy at the time
VardaValar1: hehe
fladrifv has left the room.
AriehnV: ah welll Hobbits were able to protectthemselves at need
VardaValar1: Right! Go hobbits!
ArPharazonV: maybe it was genetic, and a sharp mind and accuracy lay within the hindbrain of each, passed from father to son :-)
AriehnV: they did :-) they just needed a little push after the War of the Ring was over
Eonwe Valar: "Growing food and eating it occupied most of their time.." heh
VardaValar1: Kept them peaceful.
Eonwe Valar: Here's a fun bit of trivia:
ArPharazonV: hard to fight on a full stomach :-)
Eonwe Valar: As I already mentioned, the Tooks and the Brandybucks/Oldbucks were two houses with Fallowhide anscestry..
Eonwe Valar: Now, can anyone tell me what family had held the position of THain before the Tooks? :}
ArPharazonV: hmm..hmm... wouldn't be the Oldbucks, would it? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Yep :}
Eonwe Valar: Convenient, no? :}
ArPharazonV: hmhm
VardaValar1: Changed their name, didn't they?
Eonwe Valar: Oldbucks became Brandybucks
ArPharazonV: after moving across the river, right?
VardaValar1: That was it! Thanks
Eonwe Valar: When they moved to Buckland.
Eonwe Valar: The job description for Thain was:
Eonwe Valar: Master of the Shire-moot and captain of the Shire-muster and the Hobbitry-in-arms.
Eonwe Valar: I'm betting a Shire-moot goes faster than an Ent-moot :}
AriehnV: /
AriehnV: hehe
AriehnV: /
VardaValar1: So they would keep up the training.
AriehnV: well friends, fellows, valarites .. i fear i have to move too .. upstairs
Eonwe Valar: Aye, to some extent.
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien.
VardaValar1: Namarie, Arien. :-)
AriehnV: Namarie everyone :-)
VardaValar1: Irmo and Namo say we need night. \
ArPharazonV: nnight Arien
ArPharazonV: Namarie
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: The Mayor was an elected official and Psotmaster and First Shirriff
Eonwe Valar: *Postmaster
VardaValar1: So those Postmasters we see in LotRO might be the local mayors as well?
Eonwe Valar: No, Postmaster seems to be an administrative title.
Eonwe Valar: Means he was in charge of the Messenger Service.
ArPharazonV: in charge of the other postmasters? :-)
Eonwe Valar: He was the only Postmaster :}
ArPharazonV: then I can't comment on the ones in LotRO
Eonwe Valar: I assume they had lesser titles if any administration otehr than the mayor were really needed.
VardaValar1: Now, a Mayor is over a city. Not so then?
Eonwe Valar: "By no means all Hobbits were lettered, but those who were wrote constantly..." :}
ArPharazonV: over the entire Shire, in this case
Eonwe Valar: Mayor for Hobbits means mayor of the entire Shire.
VardaValar1: And Thain for all Hobbits?
Eonwe Valar: Elected every seven years at the Free Fair on Lithe.
Eonwe Valar: Thain is a hereditary title.
Eonwe Valar: Or at least became so when the Tooks got it if it wasn't before.
ArPharazonV: so I guess Merry got the short end of the deal, his position only being over Buckland? :-)
VardaValar1: Aye, not elected. Pippin was hereditary Thain.
VardaValar1: Merry had the entire Warren.
Eonwe Valar: The mayor was "the only real official in the Shire"
VardaValar1: Thain was mostly ceremonial at that time.
Eonwe Valar: called "the Mayor of Michel Delving (or of the Shire)"
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: The Warren was inside Buckland though, I think. So aye, he was probably over Buckland.
VardaValar1: Frodo and then Sam had the Shire.
Eonwe Valar: Being Master of Buckland is basically just saying he's the head of the Brandybuck family, since Buckland was their land.
Eonwe Valar: More or less.
VardaValar1: Pippin would be the overall head for treating with someone like Aragorn.
ArPharazonV: and Sam would mostly look to internal matters?
VardaValar1: Sam as Mayor of Michel Delving/Shire would handle all that area inside, aye.
VardaValar1: As Merry would handle Buckland.
Eonwe Valar: The Thains duties seem to be concerned with outside threats, the Mayor's with infrastructure concerns and such.
VardaValar1: So they divided domestic and foreign affairs between them.
Eonwe Valar: Seems so, aye.
ArPharazonV: like a modern government!
Eonwe Valar: In an interesting sort of, I suppose so.
Eonwe Valar: *sort of way
VardaValar1: Kind of like England.

VardaValar1: Shall we call it here and let Phar find some sleep? : )
ArPharazonV: I've got a few minutes...
VardaValar1: It was a good discussion, thanks folks.
VardaValar1: I need to leave. : )
VardaValar1 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I suppose this is a good place to stop anyway. I came to the end of the Prologue :}
Eonwe Valar: With all this easily-accessible information on Hobbits, I hope there was someone who thought it advantageous to put it in an article for the Encyclopedia :}
ArPharazonV: you'd have to check, or maybe someone will make one based on this meeting :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, unless I totally glazed over it, we don't have a general article on Hobbits...
Eonwe Valar: If only I had the time to write all the 200 or so articles we could have in the Encyclopedia, hehe.
ArPharazonV: haha
Eonwe Valar: Oh well, guess I'll turn my attention to the Games Page, and then send the GPMU mail out.
ArPharazonV: I'll save, send and get to bed
ArPharazonV: 8 hours until I need to get up
Eonwe Valar: Good time to go to bed then.