Valar Guild

October 5, 2008 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

Back to News
Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon, Fladrif, and Varda

Attending: (12)
    Members: Ancalagon-(V))/Ancbeard, AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Arwen-(V)/arwenv1, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, GwaihirValar, Luthien-(TV)/, Farmer Maggot-(V)/thesirg3, Thranduil-(V)/Gamatzgamatz, VardaValar1
    Guild-friend: the loser emu

Before-meeting: includes a taste of some of the chat from the marathon before the official meeting.
Tolkien talk listed in the Tolkien section.)
    Online artwork, (TV) guild mark.
    Alphabet soup.
    Skitch and Jing
    Chat programs
    Continuing the chat room on non-meeting and non-anniversary days:
       Motion by Fladrif
       Second by Luthien
       Aid from Eonwe
    Histories of the guild: link location
    NYS taxing internet purchases
    Guild-friend theloseremu now has a five-month old baby, pictures shared.

    (Before-meeting): Valinor art by Luthien-(TV)
    Games Page Mass Update by Eonwe-(Valar)
       Spore review by Fladrif-(V)

Individual anniversary speeches by attendees:
    Farmer Maggot-(V)

        Australia and Numenor.
        The Silmarillion in only One Thousand Words
        Middle-earth lakes, plus link to art by Luthien-TV
        Miriel, elf


You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
luthienathariel: G'day
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
arwenv1 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Good day
luthienathariel: G'day
ArPharazonV: g'day mates!
ArPharazonV: *tries Australian accent*
luthienathariel: Glad to see all the Bruces and Sheilas gathering again ..
ArPharazonV: Numenor, Australia, what's the difference
ArPharazonV: island-countries are all the same
ArPharazonV: sure, one was a reward, the other one a punishment...
ArPharazonV: but let's not worry about the details
luthienathariel: lol
VardaValar1: One advantage of those emailed images is an automatic thumbnail. :-)
VardaValar1: Aye, the Reward had to be sunk anyway.
VardaValar1: At least Australia improves instead of getting worse.
ArPharazonV: hehe

VardaValar1: Valinor art by Luthien is now online:
luthienathariel: thank you
VardaValar1: Thank you for sending them!
luthienathariel: haha now I suddenly get why the -TV behind my name feels funny
luthienathariel: ;-)
luthienathariel: it says "video made by Lúthien-TV"
VardaValar1: Please check to make sure I haven't pulled anything weird. :-)
VardaValar1: Yep. :-)
luthienathariel: like a television production company
VardaValar1: You are quite a production company!
VardaValar1: Sole proprietor.
luthienathariel: oh well yes ... that is true ...
luthienathariel: but not a TV studio
VardaValar1: We have folks like Elwing-TV for another channel.
luthienathariel: but no problem, it is just an association
VardaValar1: Tune in to the Luthien-(TV) channel!
luthienathariel: I actually never watch TV
VardaValar1: Luthien-(V) has been intending to send us a painting she's working on for years, but it's behind a long line of non-Valar work. Maybe some day.
luthienathariel: oh
VardaValar1: But we do watch the good stuff from Luthien-TV. :-)
luthienathariel: I have paintings too
luthienathariel: but not about the legendarium
VardaValar1: Good thing you have your own site to put them on. Not restricted to Tolkien's mythology.
luthienathariel: i did art school before I became a programmer
VardaValar1: Good combo.
VardaValar1: Cassia-(TV) did a zillion photo manips for her and Siobhan-(TV)'s site of Aragorn and Legolas illustrating friendship stories,
VardaValar1: and that got her a job doing photomanips. :-)
VardaValar1: for a radio station!
luthienathariel: cool
luthienathariel: er, what is a photomanip?
VardaValar1: She's on another channel in the caves if you want a quick peek.
VardaValar1: Photos that have been manipulated to show a story or new effect.
luthienathariel: oh manipulation
luthienathariel: yes
VardaValar1: The shield for Valar by Elatan-(TV) is a manip using about 3 or 4 different media.
luthienathariel: oh

VardaValar1: At least we didn't call it a PM. :-)
luthienathariel: that'd be confusing
luthienathariel: in forums that is a Personal Messag
luthienathariel: e
VardaValar1: and Post Meridian in time.
luthienathariel: oh yes.
VardaValar1: The mass of alphabet soup is a mess.
luthienathariel: indeed
luthienathariel: we need more letters ..
VardaValar1: Different jargons use the same letter combinations for different things.
VardaValar1: lol
ArPharazonV: let's use the greek alphabet too!
VardaValar1: Or we could use short, descriptive words, but that is too hard.
luthienathariel: yes
VardaValar1: Welcome to college.
VardaValar1: I was in Tri Beta. :-)
luthienathariel: well if UTF-8 really was a standard it'd be no problem ...
VardaValar1: club for biology students
luthienathariel: oh yes they do that in the US ...
VardaValar1: Why not just use short, catchy names instead of alphabet soup?
luthienathariel: use these letters for study clubs
luthienathariel: here they use names
luthienathariel: like Minerva, or Cheiron, or DSC
VardaValar1: Tri Beta is what we generally called it, so it was a name to us.
VardaValar1: DSC, heh.
luthienathariel: that is just an anagram
VardaValar1: DSC sounds like more letters.
luthienathariel: for Delft Student Corps
VardaValar1: See? More alphabet soup.
VardaValar1: Why not just call it Delft? But no.
luthienathariel: because there are others in Delft
VardaValar1: You know what I mean. Could make it into words.
luthienathariel: no, I did not :-)
luthienathariel: now I think I do .. can you give an example?
VardaValar1: Tri Beta is another version of alphabet soup, just in Greek.
luthienathariel: but what is "alphabet soup?
VardaValar1: Delfters, Green Delft
luthienathariel: they were definitely not green
luthienathariel: rather, .... blue ...
VardaValar1: Alphabet Soup was the name of a cereal made up of letter-shaped food.
luthienathariel: wearing jackets
luthienathariel: and being loud and obnoxious ...
VardaValar1: When you read a page of, say, computer jargon, you see a whole mass of abbreviations in letters.
luthienathariel: yes
luthienathariel: oh ok
VardaValar1: It looks like that soup. :-)
luthienathariel: I see
VardaValar1: Being human, we try to take the letters and make words, like saying ram for RAM.
luthienathariel: oh
VardaValar1: Ones with all consonants get messy.
VardaValar1: like Hebrew. :-)
luthienathariel: yes
VardaValar1: Of course Hebrew is also numbers, so it's even better to drive a reader nuts.
luthienathariel: :-)
VardaValar1: End rant about alphabet soup, as it is not going to go away.

luthienathariel: no ..
VardaValar1: Did the check online, fixed a back link on your Valinor page.
luthienathariel: ah
VardaValar1: Otherwise think it's ok
luthienathariel: yes, I agree. Thank you!
VardaValar1: yay

Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
luthienathariel has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: did I just leave and enter?
ArPharazonV: or just enter?
VardaValar1: You left and entered.
ArPharazonV: I think my router reset itself or somewhat
VardaValar1: We seem to tire out our comps trying to keep AIM up.

VardaValar1: Skitch really looks useful.
luthienathariel: skitch rocks
luthienathariel: too bad it's mac only
VardaValar1: That seems odd. Why would they not make a PC version as well?
luthienathariel: i would not know.
luthienathariel: maybe they say on the website?
luthienathariel: or maybe someone has picked up the idea and made one ...
luthienathariel: well now we speak of it
luthienathariel: there ya go
luthienathariel: so it exists ...
luthienathariel: go get it!
VardaValar1: I was watching the tutorial. Says it's bundled with Mac, not that it is Mac only.
VardaValar1: okies
luthienathariel: oh, it is not clear if this is real ...
luthienathariel: wait
luthienathariel: it's from March ..
VardaValar1: *skids to a stop*
luthienathariel: lol
VardaValar1: There. Requires Mac 10.4.6 or later.
VardaValar1: okies, not buying another comp just for one program. :-)
luthienathariel: oh but it's not just that *restrains herself*
luthienathariel: ok, but guess what ...
luthienathariel: I found you an alternative ...
luthienathariel: Jing!
luthienathariel: wow, looks good
luthienathariel: it does video, too...
luthienathariel: that'sawesome!
VardaValar1: Looks good.
VardaValar1: hehe - I know Mac is the super comp for art, but I mostly write and game. PC is good for that.
VardaValar1: Interesting. Jing is for Mac and PC.
luthienathariel: yes
VardaValar1: Everything wants big chunks of memory. 8MB
VardaValar1: I started doing cool stuff back on a computer that had only 1/2 MB on it's whole self.
VardaValar1: Amiga prototype.
luthienathariel: yew
luthienathariel: yes
luthienathariel: a colleage in Victoria went on about that system that he built in the late 70's on a PDP11 that basically did what Java Web Services does not today
luthienathariel: in 1/10000 of the processor capacity
luthienathariel: not == noW
VardaValar1: Aye. Current programming is full of extra junk and security. Which you know as a programmer. :-)
VardaValar1: "does not" is hilarious. :-)
luthienathariel: hey I am sending a url to me typing this :-)
luthienathariel: no
luthienathariel: *of* me
luthienathariel: wait
luthienathariel: lol
VardaValar1: Oh neat!
luthienathariel: so go get it!
VardaValar1: Your screen is interestingly different from mine.
VardaValar1: Pardon, I was putting Eonwe's new History online.
luthienathariel: oh in what respects?
luthienathariel: 's ok, I am not waiting
VardaValar1: Each person's stuff is separated into boxes.
luthienathariel: doing seven other things as well
luthienathariel: not on this chat ...
VardaValar1: Good. Glad I'm not stopping you from doing stuff.
luthienathariel: oh no ... not at all
VardaValar1: I am doing other things besides those two as well.
VardaValar1: Sure, I'll have to get Jing. That is really cool.
VardaValar1: Why so gray though?
VardaValar1: o, I see :-)
VardaValar1: Lot of advertising on Jing. Is Skitch that way too?
luthienathariel: no
luthienathariel: I never see it anyhow ..
luthienathariel: but i have set all ad-busters on Safari to Max
luthienathariel: what is grey?
VardaValar1: It was just gray-tinged before starting the video on Jing. It's fine when it starts up.
luthienathariel: ohh ok
VardaValar1: Jing ads, not general ads, though I expect those after getting started. They have to make a profit somehow.
luthienathariel: oh
luthienathariel: maybe not, maybe they just like to do it ... and have a rich auntie
VardaValar1: Poor auntie. :-)
luthienathariel: oh
luthienathariel: well not that they would make her to of course!
luthienathariel: but just a rich someone who decides to make the world happy
luthienathariel: this is a screenshot to show how all the chats go into one thing
VardaValar1: Nice, straight arrows. Makes it look more professional.

ArPharazonV: what chat-program are you using, Luthien?
luthienathariel: adium
ArPharazonV: hmm, looks interesting
luthienathariel: I think it is a Pidgin fork
ArPharazonV: aha
ArPharazonV: I think Fladrif used/uses Pidgin, but not sure
luthienathariel: I like to have one program for all chat things
ArPharazonV: useful
luthienathariel: and one that is a bit light on the bells and whistles
ArPharazonV: :-)
luthienathariel: it's distracting enough as it is :-)
ArPharazonV: compact but light, I like it
luthienathariel: yes

Ancbeard has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Ancbeard?
ArPharazonV: a dragon who forgot to shave, then?
VardaValar1: Anc! Aiya, Black Dragon!
Ancbeard: heya
fladrifv has entered the room.
Ancbeard: i am a dragon crossed with a dwarf
fladrifv: Aiya, hi dragondwarf
Ancbeard: hey flad
VardaValar1: drorf?
fladrifv: would be the perfect bar tender
fladrifv: spitting beer ofcourse, like a dwarf would like to see a dragon
VardaValar1: Happy last day of the Anniversary chat marathon. :-)

fladrifv: I still think it could be fun to jump in more often in this chat box
VardaValar1: We can keep it up, actually.
fladrifv: see how long we can continue with this
fladrifv: its good for our internal relations
VardaValar1: A number of people are online automatically, and can just pop in here.
VardaValar1: It is nice. : )
VardaValar1: We need to teach people how to enter without requiring an invitation.
VardaValar1: Everyone here already knows, I think, and can be teachers.
fladrifv: it now requires some manual work
fladrifv: it should be fully automatically
VardaValar1: You can make a desktop icon to jump in here, not exactly automatic though.
fladrifv: should be possible to have an pidgin plugin

VardaValar1: Just noticed the guild members' histories aren't in the menu on the News, which is the main community spot. hmm.
VardaValar1: It is at the bottom of the Membership page, pretty hidden.
VardaValar1: Recruiting Handbook is there too.
VardaValar1: Suggestions for where you guys would want these links? Before I stick them somewhere or just leave it as is?
fladrifv: I have a blank vote
fladrifv: is that allowed?
VardaValar1: ok :-)
VardaValar1: It's called, "I pass".
VardaValar1: ok, just leaving on the bottom of the Membership page for now.

fladrifv: so bet and call are also allowed
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Should be!
VardaValar1: Election bets
fladrifv: sounds very scary, betting on a democratic result
fladrifv: I read something very interesting btw
VardaValar1: The media puts the democratic presidential candidate ahead, but they did it before and the republican won by a landslide.
VardaValar1: I will cast my vote as I see fit, and let the chips fall where they may. : )
fladrifv: chips is something you can eat in the netherlands :-)
VardaValar1: Here too. I am fond of sour cream and chive potato chips, or Doritos.
VardaValar1: French fries seem to be what you call chips here.
fladrifv: you do have doritos?
fladrifv: :D
VardaValar1: No telling what that means in Dutch.
fladrifv: that is a snack that I very much like
VardaValar1: Oh good. :-) I think.
fladrifv: atleast in the netherlands
fladrifv: made of mais I think
VardaValar1: corn?
fladrifv: aye
ArPharazonV: what we call chips, you call crisps, don't you?
ArPharazonV: and I don't like doritos in particular,but to each his own :-)
VardaValar1: Not me, Phar.
fladrifv: in uk yes dont know if its the same in the states
VardaValar1: I like Doritos though. : )
VardaValar1: mais/maize. That's a round grain, mostly used as cattle feed in the US. A pity since it's very nutritious.
VardaValar1: We hear corn and maize confused sometimes.
VardaValar1: Maybe corn is called mais there?
ArPharazonV: I think that what we call mais is usually called corn, yes
fladrifv: aye we call corn mais
fladrifv: or majs
VardaValar1: So, what do you call maize?
ArPharazonV: I'm unsure what maize is
ArPharazonV: The term maize derives from the Spanish form (maíz) of the indigenous Taino term for the plant, and is the form most commonly heard in the United Kingdom.
VardaValar1: round grain in a loose ear, not like the yellow sort of round-edged rectangle on a tight ear.
ArPharazonV: n the United States, Canada and Australia, the usual term is corn, which originally referred to any grain (and still does in Britain), but which now refers exclusively to maize,
ArPharazonV: having been shortened from the form "Indian corn" (which currently, at least in the U.S., is often used to refer specifically to multi-colored "field corn" cultivars)
ArPharazonV: of course, that's just wiki, might be wrong
VardaValar1: I helped raize maize and corn on a farm.
VardaValar1: Passing on what we did.
VardaValar1: sorry, raise
ArPharazonV: A genetic variation that accumulates more sugar and less starch in the ear is consumed as a vegetable and is called sweet corn.
ArPharazonV: hm...
VardaValar1: Sweet corn is very yellow. Field corn is pale yellow, less sweet, aye.
fladrifv: there is also maize with different collors in one piece isnt it
ArPharazonV: ArPharazonV: having been shortened from the form "Indian corn" (which currently, at least in the U.S., is often used to refer specifically to multi-colored "field corn" cultivars)
ArPharazonV: multi-colored field corn cultivars!
VardaValar1: yes, corn can be in different colors too.
VardaValar1: They are even used as decorations for October and November celebrations.
VardaValar1: I have heard them called Indian Corn quite a few times.
VardaValar1: The all-yellow corn is derived from them.
VardaValar1: Indians taught corn-raising to the European settlers.
VardaValar1: Pretty. : )

VardaValar1: Do we have anyone else who would like to second Fladrif's request for keeping the chat room open as a normal thing?
VardaValar1: It would be a nice way to just chat or find fellow gamers, rather like the old bnet chat. :-)
fladrifv: specially because bnet is so zone dependant
VardaValar1: We used to say East realm was the Valar area.
VardaValar1: Now it's mostly in Europe, so Americans who come in think no one uses it.
VardaValar1: AIM gets around that.
VardaValar1: Any seconds to Fladrif's motion?
VardaValar1: We can bring it up in the meeting, if you want to suggest it again, Flad.
luthienathariel: oh is this now a real meeting?
VardaValar1: Otherwise, just keep it up. Build it and they will probably come.
VardaValar1: No.
VardaValar1: The meeting is not til 5pm EDT.
luthienathariel: I think it is a great idea to keep it open
VardaValar1: 5 hours from now.
VardaValar1: We have a second.
luthienathariel: oh yes, EDT
VardaValar1: Anyway, just keep it going and you'll have it. :-)
fladrifv: easy as that
VardaValar1: Aye : )
ArPharazonV: 4 hours, btw
VardaValar1: I find it tough to keep up while gaming and webworking
VardaValar1: aye, 4 hours
VardaValar1: I forgot to translate from CDT. man.
luthienathariel: Drommels.

GwaihirValar has entered the room.
GwaihirValar: hello
fladrifv: hey
VardaValar1: Gwaihir, heya :-)
VardaValar1: Welcome back to the 11th Anniversary chat channel marathon. : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya Gwaiya!

thesirg3 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Farmer! Heya!
thesirg3: Ahoy
VardaValar1: Welcome back to the 11th Anniversary chat channel marathon. :-)
ArPharazonV: farmer! Aiya!
thesirg3: How goes?
VardaValar1: Well, thanks. Survived Hurricane Ike and 11 years of Valar. ;-)
VardaValar1: How goes it for you?
thesirg3: work work work
VardaValar1: Lot of that going around.
VardaValar1: Getting to do any programming?
thesirg3: for fun? not too much
VardaValar1: Do you program at work?
thesirg3: yep
VardaValar1: Congrats! :-)
VardaValar1: Glad you're not flipping burgers.
thesirg3: Heh, hope I never have to :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: With your talent, you should be ok.
VardaValar1: Luthien, here, is a programmer too.
VardaValar1: Eonwe finished his degree as a computer programmer.

thesirg3: curse NYS taxing internet purchases
VardaValar1: ack!
VardaValar1: They get taxed on the non-internet side plus internet? not fair.
thesirg3: yeah, if they ship to NYS, they have to charge NYS sales tax
VardaValar1: The whole state? ugh
VardaValar1: The book publishers are mostly in NY. That does not bode well for the industry, already hurting.
VardaValar1: Anc, saw you fall out of LotRO.

luthienathariel: gosh you have to read this
luthienathariel: hilarious
VardaValar1: oh that's a good one! lol
luthienathariel: isn't it?
luthienathariel: I laughed my head of
luthienathariel: AINULINDALE:ILUVATAR: Ahem.AINUR: Wow! Existence!
luthienathariel: ILUVATAR: *blows pitch pipe* LA!AINUR: LA LA LA!ILUVATAR: LA LA!
luthienathariel: AINUR: LA LA!MELKOR: This sucks. BUM BUM BA DUM!
luthienathariel: AINUR: Um. . . la?ILUVATAR: Ahem. LA!
luthienathariel: MELKOR: Boop bop-a-doo-bop!ILUVATAR: LA, dammit.
luthienathariel: MELKOR: Bwam bardle ningle boom.AINUR: . . .
luthienathariel: ILUVATAR: Right, you're out of the band.MELKOR: Fine, I was leaving anyway.
luthienathariel: AINUR: . . .ILUVATAR: What are you waiting for?
luthienathariel: AINUR: Oh. Right. Newly created world. Sorry. Great jam session, big guy!ILUVATAR: Yeesh.
ArPharazonV: AR-PHARAZON: I've got a huge navy! Let's go conquer Valinor!
ArPharazonV: VALAR: Oh no you don't. *CRASHBANGBOOM*
luthienathariel: hahahahaha
ArPharazonV: AR-PHARAZON & CO.: Eeek!
ArPharazonV: NUMENOREANS: Arrgh!
ArPharazonV: or how about...
ArPharazonV: AR-PHARAZON: Thanks for the throne, dude.
luthienathariel: LMAO
ArPharazonV: TAR-MIRIEL: Hey!
ArPharazonV: AR-PHARAZON: Shaddap, woman. Sauron, j00 suxx0r! I 0wnz0r j00!
ArPharazonV: and the best lotr summary ever..
ArPharazonV: SAURON: Okay.
ArPharazonV: hmm, missed there, hang on
ArPharazonV: THE WEAK: Bad ring! Volcano for you!
ArPharazonV: RING: *melts*
ArPharazonV: SAURON: AUGH!
ArPharazonV: MORDOR: BOOM.
ArPharazonV: BEREN: *dies*LUTHIEN: *dies* La la la. MANDOS: ... oh all right. LUTHIEN: *returns to life* BEREN: *returns to life* LUTHIEN: Beren! Look! The shiny! FEANOR'S SONS: *mutter* LUTHIEN: *dies again* BEREN: *dies again*
luthienathariel: I was in a theatre group at university, and we played Hamlet In Five Minutes
VardaValar1: That had to be a total hoot!

Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: heya Eonwe :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya Eonwe :-)
luthienathariel: it was ... we needed a team of four undertakers to carry all the fallen actors offstage
Eonwe Valar: Heh, so sending an invite to myself for the current room did work, hehe.
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Heya all.
luthienathariel: Suilad :-)
VardaValar1: Luthien, show Eonwe that link! He'll love it. :-)

GwaihirValar: Oh wow, I can't believe I completely forgot what time of year it was lol
VardaValar1: Happy 11th, Gwaihir. :-)
GwaihirValar: Happy anniversary to us, if a day belated ;-)
VardaValar1: Today is the Sunday chat at the end time for the Anniversary, so your timing is not so bad. :-)
VardaValar1: Why our Tolkien fan club is not all in LotRO I don't know.
luthienathariel: er, what is Lotro?
GwaihirValar: Lord of the Rings Online, its an mmorpg based off of the Lord of the Rings
luthienathariel: (do I sense a hidden sort of pointer there? :p )
luthienathariel: ah thanks!
GwaihirValar: no problem

AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
AriehnV: Aiya all :-)#
AriehnV: is anyone awake or have all been turnined into rocks?
VardaValar1: We are here :-)
VardaValar1: Shutting down games etc
AriehnV: ah i see i was afraid we had some disguised trolles here and by accident i turned them to stone by me showing up
VardaValar1: Fladrif's high speed talk is catching. :-)
VardaValar1: brb
fladrifv: *waves out from the shadows*
ArPharazonV: allright, warcraft 3 closed, here for meeting!
ArPharazonV: NUMENOREANS: Life is cool. Why do we have to die? ELVES: You're human? NUMENOREANS: Can the Valar fix that? VALAR: No. NUMENOREANS: That sucks. Go away.
ArPharazonV: Akallabeth in a nutshell..
VardaValar1: :-)
VardaValar1: back
AriehnV: hehe :-)
VardaValar1: Invited the WoW people to come in. They just said Hi to us and happy 11th
VardaValar1: Might get one in here though : )

the loser emu has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Heya Emu :-)
the loser emu: Heya.
the loser emu: Long time, no chat.
AriehnV: greetings Emu
the loser emu: Hey. xP
ArPharazonV: ....Emu?
AriehnV: And who might you be :-) ? i figure there is still a heck of a lot people i havent met yet
VardaValar1: Emu is a guild-friend. :-)
ArPharazonV: I think we've met, but I have not a clue who you are
ArPharazonV: ah :-)
the loser emu: -nod- I was invited here by a friend.
the loser emu: a loooooong time ago
VardaValar1: I'm the friend. : )
the loser emu: Heyyyyy.
the loser emu: Did Ethan tell ya the good news??
the loser emu: xP
VardaValar1: We met at the traveling Tolkien relics
VardaValar1: Nope
the loser emu: Ah, haha. Ill tell you later I guess. ^.^
VardaValar1: Side window works
arwenv1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: You have all been invited here for the regular Sunday meeting and the 11th Anniversary of the Valar Guild. :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you for making it a really great 11 years!
the loser emu: Wow!
ArPharazonV: now let's make it 111!
AriehnV: *cheers and opens bottle of champagne to pass round*
luthienathariel: :-)
fladrifv: wheres the ring?
luthienathariel: (la la la)
AriehnV: we need Gandalf for fireworks
VardaValar1: In that jewelry box under my Gandalf figurine. :-)
AriehnV: hehe i only have gollum
AriehnV: nice piece of art :-)
VardaValar1: And congratulations to Emu on her 5 month old baby!
the loser emu: Hahahah.
the loser emu: xP
the loser emu: <3
VardaValar1: I should have gotten in touch much earlier. :-)
the loser emu: much much much.
ArPharazonV: congratulations :-)
AriehnV: congratulations indeed
the loser emu: Thank you! :-)
Ancbeard has left the room.
VardaValar1: Anyway, right now we are at the tail end of the week long Anniversary chat room marathon.
Ancbeard has entered the room.
VardaValar1: All of you may be proud that the room never went down the whole week.
VardaValar1: Heya, Black Dragon. :-)
the loser emu:
AriehnV: .heya anch :-D its been a while
VardaValar1: Wonderful picture!
Ancbeard: accidentally closed the window heh
the loser emu:
the loser emu: Hahah
VardaValar1: That one too. : )
the loser emu: Thank you very much. ^_^
VardaValar1: Many of you here have helped with the chat room marathon and we thank all of you for helping with this tradition!

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: A star shines on the hour of our meeting
VardaValar1: and every day that we have met together. : )
VardaValar1: Luthien-(TV) joined us this last week and has helped in many ways.
VardaValar1: She has been in the chat room almost all the time
VardaValar1: She has added to the Tolkien Site.
VardaValar1: Lot there to enjoy looking at. : )
VardaValar1: Thanks for joining us.
VardaValar1: Most of you have been here for many anniversaries and I am so glad to count you all as the finest of friends.
VardaValar1: Eonwe has written a History of his time to share with us for the Anniversary.
VardaValar1: He calls it The Herald's Tale : )
VardaValar1: Thank you also to Arwen, who has stuck with us loyally and sent this poem:
VardaValar1: To Valar Guild!/Ivory towers fading fast/Yet sunset's light doth last/For a glory-shining night
VardaValar1: People come together/To conquer dark forever/And bask in morning's light
VardaValar1: Eleven years a-tenure/T'honor Tolkien's treasure/And all that he did write.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Arwen, for the kind words!

VardaValar1: I'm going to pull something new now. : )
VardaValar1: I'm calling on each of you here in alphabetical order to say a few words, whatever moves you. : )
VardaValar1: Ancbeard?
VardaValar1: (If you are afk, you may have to go out of order later. )
VardaValar1: Arien?
VardaValar1: You get your turn to talk when your name is called.
the loser emu: Ive gotta run you guys! Congrats on the 11th aniversary!!!!! <3
VardaValar1: namarie, Emu, and congrats!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!

VardaValar1: Ar-Pharazon, your turn.
the loser emu has left the room.
luthienathariel: Namarië!
luthienathariel: aw, too late
ArPharazonV: well, allright...
AriehnV: meh aye :-) read the tale sleepyhead
VardaValar1: Anc and Arien will have to go out of turn later. : )
arwenv1: :-)
ArPharazonV: I'd like to thank the Valarguild for the warm and welcoming environment it has provided for the past 11 years
ArPharazonV: even though I was not present for the first 6, I have to assume on hearsay that in those times too this was as close a community as it is now
ArPharazonV: perhaps even more so since people were spread out over less games ;-)
VardaValar1: It was very close when we all played only Diablo 1.
ArPharazonV: and I'd like to thank the Valarguild for welcoming members from all countries, all ages, and all preferred races in the world of Tolkien
VardaValar1: (and even unpreferred races)
ArPharazonV: where else would Elves, Edain, Numenoreans, Hobbits, Valar, and even the Dark Lord be able to enjoy each other's company?
VardaValar1: (Ugluk, for instance, is an orc.)
ArPharazonV: and yes, Orcs, of course, must not forget those :-)
ArPharazonV: we are bound by a love for a literature that after half a century still hasn't gone old, and the messages that literature gives us
ArPharazonV: even rising above those messages as Good and Evil live together and play together, as it should be :-)
VardaValar1: (elves and dwarves, right?)
ArPharazonV: and while the legacy of Tolkien lasts, and people still read the books and learn to live after it in harmony and friendship, so too will this Valarguild survive
ArPharazonV: for games may come and go, but the books stay, and I am sure that even in the new generations this chatroom may be occupied every sunday :-)
ArPharazonV: I for one am not planning on leaving it any time soon :-)
VardaValar1: Well said, as this chat has happened every Sunday despite our change in games and places.
ArPharazonV: *raises a glass* To the Valarguild, and all it stands for, and may it live to be 111 years old still :-)
ArPharazonV: *steps down*
ArPharazonV: who's next then? :-)

VardaValar1: Arwen, would you like to speak?
arwenv1: :-)
VardaValar1: As soon as she vanquishes that marsh dredger, of course.
arwenv1: I think I'd simply like to say thank you to all the wonderfully kind folks in Valar Guild; you are delightfully fun to be around and I am glad to be here!
VardaValar1: Arwen is not only one of the sweetest people you'll meet in-game, she's that way in real life too. : )
arwenv1: hehe :-)
AriehnV: i d love to meet you all *sigh* maybe if it is Eru's will it may yet happen
VardaValar1: In a way, we meet each other here as an out of the body experience. ;-)

VardaValar1: Eonwe, would you like to say a few words? : )
Eonwe Valar: The question isn't would I like to, the question is am I capable of saying only a few words :}
VardaValar1: and then a few more words? ;-)
ArPharazonV: well, my words weren't too few either, and they were welcomed :-)
Eonwe Valar: If y'all are lucky, I speechified myself out yesterday, but let's see :}
VardaValar1: We can just point them to your history - that would fix some of it.
Eonwe Valar: I've been a member of Valar for nine years now.
Eonwe Valar: Well, nine years Nov 6th,.. only a month away.
Eonwe Valar: I've had the privilege of meeting great people in Valar.
Eonwe Valar: Some of you here are some of those great people :}
Eonwe Valar: All of you here are great people :}
Eonwe Valar: I've enjoyed the traditions we've had and maintained since before my time.
Eonwe Valar: For example, taking a Tolkien name as your character within Valar. Some peopel would balk at that.
VardaValar1: and quite a few have indeed balked.
luthienathariel: ow why?
Eonwe Valar: I'm the first to admit when I came across Makar's Games page for Valar so long ago and saw there were people who dared to traipse around with names like Manwë, Varda, and Aulë,..
VardaValar1: heeh
Eonwe Valar: I thought these people must be pretty sure of themselves.
Eonwe Valar: one night I decided to see just what these Valar were about, and I was pleased with what I saw.
luthienathariel: oh
VardaValar1: (felt pretty weird for me to get the Varda name honor)
Eonwe Valar: I learned a bit more about Valar, and came to understand why those people bore those names.
fladrifv: (dont worry varda its also the burden not only the honor)
VardaValar1: (I wear them happily.)
VardaValar1: The honor names are in recognition of those who have served, not telling the person that now he must begin to serve.
Eonwe Valar: Up until I came across Valar, I had no interest in joining clans, guilds, or what have you. I was quite happy standing on my own two feet,.. which of course means I wouldn't have got far had I been in an MMOs, hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: I saw something special in this group, and so I joined it.
Eonwe Valar: I haven't regretted that choice in nine years :}
VardaValar1: We are so glad you came to be with us and became co-chair of the Valar Guild!
VardaValar1: (Means we stick him with all sorts of chores!)
ArPharazonV: (always handy to have one of those around ;-))
Eonwe Valar: If you are so inclined, I think perusing our 11 years of the News page can prove interesting :}
VardaValar1: News Archives, reachable from the bottom of the News page. : )
Eonwe Valar: Reading our Old Yahoo board can show some of the great discussions I got to enjoy so much, and maybe give you ideas for new ones :}
Eonwe Valar: Contributing to our new Forum gives you a chance to point back nine years from now and say "Look at the fun I got to have then." :}
VardaValar1: Old board:
VardaValar1: New board:
Eonwe Valar: Most importantly, by looking over these things, you'll get a sense of the depth of time, the work and the effort that was put into Valar by other members of all levels, just like you,
Eonwe Valar: who saw something special here and wanted to be a part of it.
VardaValar1: Just spend a few minutes trying to locate everything in the Tolkien Site. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: We didn't spring up overnight, so we should never forget the contributions of those who came before us.
Eonwe Valar: OK, that's enough from me. Hope I didn't make it too hard for everyone following me :}
VardaValar1: (feel free to log into the forum and say happy anniversary!)

Eonwe Valar: I believe it's Fladrif's turn now :}
VardaValar1: Each person sees things from a different perspective, each has a new thing to say.
AriehnV: meh a short speech for an ent is likely 100 years long :-)
fladrifv: *walks very carefully on stage*
VardaValar1: (Stage has been recently reinforced by Aule after the last time.)
Eonwe Valar: :}
fladrifv: I will say one or two words, dont worry Ariehn
AriehnV: *chuckles*
fladrifv: Standing on my hill I heard rumours from afar mentioning a great guild, taking care of the lore
fladrifv: it was by supprise my enemy the Numorean called Arpharazon who asked me to join
fladrifv: If even enemys are asking to join, who can resist
fladrifv: Im now here since 2002 or 2001, its great to be part of the guild help here and there, and take care for the rights of the tree's
ArPharazonV: (I joined in 2003, so I doubt those years are correct)
fladrifv: I admid I should listen more to the others aswell, but an ent is just a little selfish
fladrifv: 2003, one or 2 years
VardaValar1: (May 9, 2004 on the page)
fladrifv: hehe, even more years.
fladrifv: some ents are a little optimistic
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: That's still four years!
fladrifv: and as everyone is alike I was quite nervous for the test
fladrifv: but due to this test it gives more the feeling of a guild
fladrifv: anyway, the past has been gone, its now that we are a guild!, let the glory of the Valar guild rise! fireworks for all that make this guild!
fladrifv: *leaves the stage quietly hooming*
VardaValar1: *applauds*
ArPharazonV: just be careful with those fireworks, don't want to catch fire yourself!
AriehnV: *gives flashes of light on the water for light effects*
VardaValar1: The Valie of Light sends out fireworks, closing with the aurora borealis.
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Gwaihir seems to be afk. Gwai, are you here?
fladrifv: (even a bunch of huorns are cheering for us!)
ArPharazonV: *has all the Numenoreans light their lights for celebration*
ArPharazonV: the Land of the Star, seen from above, shining like a thousand stars in itself!

VardaValar1: Luthien, your turn to speak. :-)
luthienathariel: Er.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar, for the lights!
luthienathariel: there are now two members who are distracting me :p
VardaValar1: heeh
luthienathariel: by msging me outside of this ...
luthienathariel: gosh
VardaValar1: Ignore us. ;-)
luthienathariel: what can I say
VardaValar1: Howdy will do. : )
luthienathariel: it is strange to enter here right into something like this 11 yr celebration
luthienathariel: but what strikes me most
luthienathariel: is the fact that you manage to keep a website and online community alive for that long
luthienathariel: that is nothing short of amazing
luthienathariel: I don't think that I have seen that anywhere else
luthienathariel: well, maybe Amazon ...
luthienathariel: or Yahoo ...
luthienathariel: but surely, no more ...
luthienathariel: and those are commercial, of course
luthienathariel: so that is hardly a comparison
luthienathariel: hmm.
VardaValar1: :-)
luthienathariel: *thinks*
luthienathariel: so I figure that that is something that you all deserve an applause for
luthienathariel: *applauds*
luthienathariel: *massive cheers*
VardaValar1: Thank you, Luthien. Praise from the worthy is praise indeed.
luthienathariel: and
luthienathariel: I actually was not looking for anything like this ...
luthienathariel: I was looking for some info about Námo ...
luthienathariel: and then you hit the top google search :-)
luthienathariel: but I got interested and thought that it might be really interesting
luthienathariel: oh sorryt
luthienathariel: that's double ..
luthienathariel: lol
luthienathariel: pfff
luthienathariel: <me and speeches>
fladrifv: *looks around, no one asleep its ok*
luthienathariel: well anyway, I like it a lot so far, and I hope to get to know you
luthienathariel: and thank you for tolerating me
luthienathariel: :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks for coming to be with us!
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Thanks for letting us tolerate you ;-)

VardaValar1: Farmer, would you like to say a few words before they drag you off for a mushroom dinner?
luthienathariel: (I think I am done)
thesirg3: Eek, mushrooms.... But yes, I would
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: oops me and buttons ;-) worng window sorry didnt mean to leave :-)
thesirg3: It's been a few years since I joined, but I haven't been active in the last half a year (or so)
VardaValar1: :-)
thesirg3: I have no idea how I originally stumbled upon the group in back in the days of Diablo, but I did and enjoyed gaming with a group of polite (and intelligent) people
VardaValar1: (Dec. 7, 2002)
thesirg3: but I did, and joined somewhat after.... then 6 (!!!) years passed somehow, and now I'm here with you all for yet another anniversary
VardaValar1: Yay!
thesirg3: lately work's been consuming all of my time, and I've been unable to join in on stuff (plus you all went and got WoW ;-))
thesirg3: anyhow, here's to you all! :-D
VardaValar1: I am on LotRO. ;-)
fladrifv: ok maybe to new but you can join us in starcraft :-)
ArPharazonV: (hint hint)
VardaValar1: A lot of us went to Lord of the Rings Online
thesirg3: Yeah, but I don't have the time for an MMO
ArPharazonV: always with the LotRO, eh, Varda? ;-)
thesirg3: I'm literally working right now
VardaValar1: You bet. :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you for talking to us with so much going on!
thesirg3: My pleasure.
VardaValar1: Chess with Fladrif!
Eonwe Valar: We have members playing things besides MMOs as well :}
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Chess, Starcraft :}
VardaValar1: And some that do only Tolkien Site stuff.
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
VardaValar1: Check out the new Music section and other fun stuff when you have a moment. : )
ArPharazonV: and Fladrif and I just got back to Warcraft 3 ;-)
Eonwe Valar: We have dozens of ways to join in the fun :}
VardaValar1: In a quick side note
thesirg3: I shall check the games page when I get a moment (likely in January)
VardaValar1: Eonwe has been reworking the Games page
VardaValar1: January works :-)
VardaValar1: A review by Fladrif is now up, on the new game of Spore!
thesirg3: Ah, we do reviews now?
VardaValar1: Gaming/Game Reviews
Eonwe Valar: We've done Gaming reviews for a while :}
VardaValar1: Have for years, so yes. Feel free to send in one.
Eonwe Valar: Fladrif is the first person in 4-5 years to do one besides me though :} For that, Fladrif deservees a hearty handshake, pat on the back, and a big thank you :}
ArPharazonV: *pats the ent on the back/bark*
fladrifv: this is too much for just the little contribution I did
VardaValar1: Praise him with great praise!
VardaValar1: It has atmosphere too. :-)

VardaValar1: Ancalagon, if you could fly over here and take the stage now, please? We'd enjoy hearing your comments.
Ancbeard: oh dear
VardaValar1: A shy flying black dragon? :-)
Ancbeard: Well mostly I'd like to say that I'm thankful for having found a place to belong here in Valar, where I can talk with other Tolkien fans.
Ancbeard: Also, I think I must be fated to be here since a lot of luck was involved in me finding this guild (twice!) and finding my name available :-)
Ancbeard: I wish I could do more for the guild in order to give back, and I'm planning to take a look at that for year 12.
Ancbeard: That's it :-)
VardaValar1: Ancalagon is being modest again. :-)
VardaValar1: Anc has been a huge help in the LotRO game, so much so that he has become a designated questing/raid leader, with the title of Warlord. :-)
VardaValar1: He is also great fun to chat with about Tolkien, the movies, and nitpicking the game.
Ancbeard: I also enjoyed stumping people with my riddles but I think they got tired of it :/
VardaValar1: hehe

VardaValar1: Arien, the dragon found a new roost. Would you like to shine some light over here now?
AriehnV: dragon eggs to roast?
VardaValar1: Anc's a guy!
Ancbeard: yes and there are no known female dragons so... :-(
VardaValar1: *pats Anc's scaly shoulder*
AriehnV: ah :-( my apaologies and deepest condolations worthy dragons .. it must be lonely indeed
GwaihirValar: this is why dragons always abduct damsels
Ancbeard: i wondered why i always do that...
AriehnV: ah aye and burn so much and destroy .. guess they need something to do .. but i distract from the question :-)_
AriehnV: my bad
AriehnV: well .. lets see whether i can shed a bit light on my views of the valar guild .
AriehnV: and experiences
AriehnV: I found the guild by random browsing the varous Darkover forums i was part of at the time , you were in the links list
AriehnV: i got curious .. clicked and browsed the sight and found the tip with the chatroom here and .. the rest is history as they say
AriehnV: i was very intrigued by the code of conduct of this guild based on values like honor, courtesy , friendship and loyalty
AriehnV: and a willing ness to help each other
AriehnV: this was more than matched when i got to know the people on joining the meetings as regular
AriehnV: it always was and is fun to be in here and communicate with you all on various bases .. whether its formal as in normal meetings or more informal
AriehnV: as today
AriehnV: i enjoy being with you all
AriehnV: and i have to say .. while not really having been able to establish a functioning Valar Guild branch on World of Warcraft i wouldnt have been able
AriehnV: to learn the game without the help of Ar Pharazon, Fladrif and of course Menelvagor
AriehnV: so my deepest thatnks to them :-)
AriehnV: and to you all guys :-) these meetings always give me something to think about , other than our real world or what we call real .. but we still can relate to it
AriehnV: and you make me smile and laugh at times
AriehnV: you make me always look forward to these meetings .. so keep it up guys
AriehnV: and lassies
fladrifv: and trees?
fladrifv: ;-)
AriehnV: and trees :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: :}
AriehnV: so thanks all :-)
AriehnV: thats it :-)
luthienathariel: :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien! Those were kind words indeed.

VardaValar1: Gwaihir-(Valar), would you like to fly over here where these sunbeams may light your bright feathers, and speak to us?
GwaihirValar: Gladly
GwaihirValar: Well, for starters I'd like to say that as I've been a bit on the inactive side these past couple years, which I'm sorry for, I have missed a lot ;-)
VardaValar1: good excuse, getting married and settling down with the illustrious Gilraen-(V)! :-)
GwaihirValar: and working nights
GwaihirValar: that REALLY separates you from the rest of the world
GwaihirValar: lol
VardaValar1: Always a tough row to hoe.
VardaValar1: Luckily we have European members, and all time zones.
GwaihirValar: but when I first joined the guild, it was on starcraft... and well, I had virtually no idea of what I was getting into... to be honest, I was joining at the time because a.. friend of mine at the time had asked me to try
GwaihirValar: and it seemed like a place I could find some common ground
GwaihirValar: little did I know that while she would disappear after only a month or two, I'd still be here what... over 5 years later?
VardaValar1: (We still play StarCraft/BroodWar, but the rascals are mostly on Europe now.)
GwaihirValar: Time really does fly lol
VardaValar1: hehe
AriehnV: ah bleh time flies too quickly :-( especially always for me in these meetings
AriehnV: but i have to get up in four hours ..
GwaihirValar: Anyways, I joined and soon found that the guild channel and chats were a little paradise from the common... well, I won't discuss the majority of here... people found on battlenet...
GwaihirValar: wow... four hours, that sounds like me! You go let the moon have a few hours eh?
GwaihirValar: :-)
AriehnV: hehe aye i have to be at least a bit generous
AriehnV: ;-)
VardaValar1: We have a motion made earlier before the house to continue this chat room for fun beyond the marathon. Motion made by Fladrif, seconded by Luthien.
VardaValar1: This could help you get with us at weird hours. :-)
VardaValar1: Kind of a bnet chat room for you to find fellow gamers and chatters.
Eonwe Valar: Well, I can't leave my computer "always" on, but I'd be more than happy to be in here any time I'm on to get a further chance at chatting with members of Valar.
AriehnV: Well dear friends and co - Valrites , i enjoye d this anniveesary meeting a lot and wouild like to stay longer so i ll read te script ;-)
VardaValar1: Thank you for coming. We'll try to have something for you to read!
AriehnV: enjoy !
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien :}
ArPharazonV: I agree with Eonwe, now I just need to find a way to automatically open the window when AIM starts :-)
GwaihirValar: and, if I am to be completely honest, if I hadn't joined Valar, I wouldn't have made friends with someone who became my best friend, and who helped me through a... ahem...
GwaihirValar: very difficult time... a time when, well, I very nearly did the one thing that can never be taken back(and I'll leave it at that), so to say that the Valar Guild has changed my life is not empty praise
ArPharazonV: Namarie Arien!
VardaValar1: Forum available to say happy anniversary on.
luthienathariel: namaer ...
VardaValar1: Gilraen for the win!
GwaihirValar: farewell :-)
GwaihirValar: actually, no, this was before her ;-)
AriehnV: Namarie for now .. Anar kaluva tieyanna! May the sun lighten your road!
VardaValar1: The last win then. : )
AriehnV has left the room.
GwaihirValar: I introduced her to Valar, it was our last Luthien to whom I refer with that hehe
VardaValar1: We would like to see her back here, hear how her painting is coming along.
VardaValar1: And how Eomer is doing, her brother. (Our geneology is strange.)
GwaihirValar: very
GwaihirValar: lol
Eonwe Valar: I'm glad you stuck with us, meldo :}
GwaihirValar: I'm still trying to get in touch with them somewhat... but having no luck. But ya, in reminiscing... I'd have to say that most of the people who have meant the most to me, on the long run, have been met at least in part
GwaihirValar: because of this guild, and I doubt I would be who I am if not for the people here, so... to those of you new to this, you've found a good place, and to those of you who aren't, thanks for making it so good ;-)
VardaValar1: And you are one of those who have made it so, Maia Gwaihir! Thank you from us as well.
GwaihirValar: My pleasure, I assure you ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
luthienathariel: that is good to hear

thesirg3 has left the room.
VardaValar1: At this point, we probably all could use a short break. Then would anyone like to try some trivia or Moments?
VardaValar1: or get together gaming?
ArPharazonV: perhaps some of us here would like to get together for Warcraft 3 or Starcraft? could be fun with a small group :-)
luthienathariel: what are trivia or moments
ArPharazonV: but the trivia thing sounds good too
ArPharazonV: I remember a chatroom with a trivia bot.... who was hosting that again?
VardaValar1: Europe has limited time. Gaming would need to be pretty soon.
VardaValar1: Tolkien Gateway

Eonwe Valar: Just a small point of business.
VardaValar1: Srekal86 is online but away.
VardaValar1: Point away. :-)
Eonwe Valar: All the gaming info I received is up on the Games Page. Please check and make sure it's listed correctly.
VardaValar1: Thank you for that huge amount of work! Checking now.
Eonwe Valar: There arent any fancy features or behind-the-scenes work done this year. I couldn't get what I was trying to do done with the tools I had.
Eonwe Valar: I'll see if I can't adapt them to what I have at my disposal over the year.
Eonwe Valar: And read Fladrif's Spore review :}
Eonwe Valar: That's all.
Eonwe Valar: It's my pleasure to work on the Games Page :}
VardaValar1: hmm, games sorted by player? :-)
Eonwe Valar: I was supposed to change that I think?
Eonwe Valar: A new menu was one of the things I couldn't get working, it was in there, hehe. I'll have to fix that, and just remembered another thing I have to change in the old menu.
VardaValar1: no worries. Might just change the title if that is doable.
VardaValar1: Sauron plays WoW
VardaValar1: oops, pardon, wrong window
VardaValar1: Most who are left probably need to leave soon? If not, Anc, would you like to ask a trivia or do a Moment?
VardaValar1: Might keep it to LotR if you can.
VardaValar1: (for trivia)
VardaValar1: Arwen plays a lot of WoW
VardaValar1: sorry again
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: it happens :}
VardaValar1: Updates were by email. Rosters for later, Eonwe says.

VardaValar1: afk
Eonwe Valar: Gil-Galad was an Elven King/Of him the harpers sadly sing
Eonwe Valar: The last whose realm was fair and free/between the mountains and the Sea.
luthienathariel: O Gil-galad i Edhelchír / dim linnar i thelegain:
Eonwe Valar: HIs sword was long, his lance was keen,/his shining helm afar was seen;
Eonwe Valar: the countless stars of heavens field/were mirrored in his silver shield.
GwaihirValar: its been a pleasure, but Gilraen and I are gonna go make dinner, so I'll be away from the computer for a short while, farewell folks :-)
Eonwe Valar: But long ago he rode away,/and where he dwelleth none can say;
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Gwai :-)
GwaihirValar: (not gonna leave the chat though... since I will be back ;-))
VardaValar1: :-)
Eonwe Valar: Take care and bon apetit :}
Eonwe Valar: for into darkness fell his star/in Mordor where the shadows are.
VardaValar1: For those who wanted to keep open the chat room, feel free to do so. Don't feel like it's a job where you have to keep it open all the time though!
ArPharazonV: I never leave my pc on overnight, anyway
VardaValar1: Best not to.
ArPharazonV: but as long as I'm here :-)
VardaValar1: With different time zones, that still lets the room stay open. : )
Eonwe Valar: Good thing you waited until the end of the week to say that, Varda, heh e:}
VardaValar1: Not any good to you if you are not present, at least not much.
VardaValar1: The marathon was a different kettle of fish. :-)
VardaValar1: They asked for it to be on for general purposes.
VardaValar1: Sundays, you bet it's on! :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Well, I'd be willing to pop in here during the week when I'm at my computer in the chance other Valarites will pop in, so as long as you're not bored of seeing me, you'll at least see me here, hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: If you come in when I'm here, of course :} Can't see me when I'm not here :}
VardaValar1: I may be do that as well. :-)
VardaValar1: You are not boring, Fionwe. No problem. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Afk for a moment.
VardaValar1: May I suggest that we now call this free time?
VardaValar1: We have reached a natural stopping place.
VardaValar1: We may move to an unstructured format. *bangs gavel*

ArPharazonV: what are Valarguild plans for Wrath of the Lich King?
ArPharazonV: everyone in Lothar continuing with it? :-)
arwenv1: I plan to
VardaValar1: Aye, WotLK planned here for our family.
VardaValar1: 5 Valarites. :-)
arwenv1: hehe
VardaValar1: Gimli hopes to be able to come back to gaming later. Things got tight recently.
ArPharazonV: looking forward to the achievements?
VardaValar1: aye
arwenv1: I've already started working on them
ArPharazonV: I went over a few titles and achievements with other players, and I figure I'll already receive like half a dozen titles the moment achievements are implemented ;-)
arwenv1: =o Evenstarr, my current main has a nice bundle on beta
VardaValar1: Hehe, love this page. We need some comments for the current games though.
arwenv1: some of them wont be implimented though
arwenv1: titles and achievements that they have no way to track, you have to do over again sometimes
VardaValar1: You know you're in Valar when
arwenv1: my problem is Im switching main characters come expansion =o
arwenv1: so have to do all the silly achivements again :-)
VardaValar1: That should be a problem for the retro stuff.
arwenv1: well some of the retro stuff doesnt go through
ArPharazonV: you're going Death Knight? :-)
arwenv1: like killing pre-bc raid/dungeon bosses
arwenv1: no
VardaValar1: Fangorn and Elwing are on WoW right now. Sauron just left
arwenv1: I'm just switching mains
arwenv1: if you killed pre-bc raid/dungeon bosses but there was no quest associated with it
arwenv1: and you dont still have some of the loot, then you wont get credit
ArPharazonV: hmm... I guess if you did the quest for the red scepter shard, you'll get credit for Nefarian, right?
ArPharazonV: and if you did the Weavil quest, do you get Onyxia credit?
arwenv1: only if killing them was part of the quest
arwenv1: or if you had loot that dropped only from them still
ArPharazonV: you needed loot from them to do the quest
ArPharazonV: so it's a bit.. tricky
arwenv1: then it may count
arwenv1: I'm not sure :-)
arwenv1: I just know a lot of things you dont get credit for until you do it again
ArPharazonV: yep
arwenv1: yeah
ArPharazonV: a lot of aforementioned titles have to do with reputation or exploration, though :-)
arwenv1: yeah
ArPharazonV: so I guess I'll have those
ArPharazonV: I'll be a Diplomat!
arwenv1: it was interesting to look at my exploration on my current main
ArPharazonV: and I'm still working on Justicar
Gamatzgamatz has entered the room.
arwenv1: and see 2 small weird out of the way places I hadnt found
Gamatzgamatz: hey everybody
arwenv1: and go get them and get outland explorer
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Thranduil :-)  [Note: side-windowed with Thranduil to do some quick updating for web pages]
ArPharazonV: well, that's been some time
arwenv1: though
arwenv1: you cant get the explorer badge till you explore outlands too
arwenv1: so either it waits on 80
ArPharazonV: you mean Northrend :-)
arwenv1: or a lot of death runnings
arwenv1: yes, Northrend :-)
arwenv1: on the DK thing, I'll make one eventually, but my new main is also a priest, just rerolling a dran-i >.>
ArPharazonV: I've got one in mind already
ArPharazonV: figured out race, gender, and exact appearance already, and I've gotten a friend to hold the name :-)
ArPharazonV: problem is, I'll need to delete a character for one, and it'll have to be the one character I made for the Valarguild branch...
ArPharazonV: he's only lvl 2, hasn't ever been off Teldrassil, and he's the only class I have twice (well, except the other one, but that one's a lot higher leveled)
ArPharazonV: so it's the obvious choice
arwenv1: yeah
ArPharazonV: I've already discussed it with Arien though and I'll be sending in another alt for the Valarguild on our server :-)
arwenv1: hehe
arwenv1: I have a name reserved already as well
ArPharazonV: I'm not deleting him yet though, he still serves me well as a reagent bank, and I have some vague hope that maybe Blizzard will make an extra slot for the DK
ArPharazonV: but there's not much hope for that
arwenv1: hehe
arwenv1: I have all my character spaces on 2 accounts filled up
arwenv1: but a handful of those are just placeholders
ArPharazonV: hah
arwenv1: I have such a hard time with names
arwenv1: so I make a lvl 1 with a name I like when I think of it
ArPharazonV: ah
arwenv1: and if there is no room, I delete a name I like less and make another :-)
arwenv1: that way no one else gets it in the mean time!
ArPharazonV: well, I made my first character called Calaron, based on Pharazon and Calion, and from there I started the tradition of starting practically every name with Cal
ArPharazonV: and besides my hunter and warrior, Caliona and Caldarion, no name has any actual tolkien roots :-)
arwenv1: hehe
arwenv1: I stopped naming with tolkien names a long time ago
ArPharazonV: I just made up the other names when I made the characters, only a handful with forethought
arwenv1: there really isnt many options =P
VardaValar1: There are lots. But it helps to have help
ArPharazonV: wanted to name my Draenei shaman Cal'jaeden at first, for a laugh, but I thought better of it
VardaValar1: And you can mess with the spelling. Arrwhen :-)
ArPharazonV: now he's called Caljaenor :-)
arwenv1: hehe
ArPharazonV: oh, and I still have an Armenelos on another server, but I haven't logged him in years
ArPharazonV: that's the beauty of being a king, you can exploit your entire country for names :-)
arwenv1: lol
arwenv1: I like variety in names
ArPharazonV: I've been playing a sort of realtime space-based web-game called Ogame, and I named all my planets after locations on Numenor, just because I could ;-)
arwenv1: that sounds like fun :-)
ArPharazonV: Armenelos, Romenna, Andunia, Numenora, Meneltarma, Eldalonde, Nindamos, etc :-)
ArPharazonV: Nindamos! the least known named town on Numenor, a fishing town on the south coast
ArPharazonV: only named once in a text about Numenor in Unfinished Tales, as well as placed on the accompanying map
ArPharazonV: quite a rare find :-)
arwenv1: cool :-)
ArPharazonV: it's an interesting experience as king to look on a map and think "Hey, a town I never knew I had" ;-)
VardaValar1: hehe

luthienathariel: so where do you think this is:
Eonwe Valar: back
VardaValar1: Aiyata :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hantal
Eonwe Valar: Heya Thranduil. Happy 11th Anniversary :}
luthienathariel: *wrong*
Eonwe Valar: ?
ArPharazonV: a lake, surrounded by greenery
ArPharazonV: an island in the middle also with greenery and a small structure
luthienathariel: I made sort of a sketch, and I wondered if someone recognises it
luthienathariel: or rather
ArPharazonV: where could it be...
luthienathariel: has a similar visual of it
ArPharazonV: I'm afraid I don't recognize it
Eonwe Valar: Are we guessing Tolkien geography or real qorld geography?
Eonwe Valar: *real world
luthienathariel: Tolkien
Eonwe Valar: The Island of the Dead That Live. Forget the Elvish name off the top of my head.
luthienathariel: Tol Galen :p
luthienathariel: nope
VardaValar1: Beren and Luthien's island
luthienathariel: nope
luthienathariel: that's Tol Galen
VardaValar1: aye, slow typing
luthienathariel: oh
luthienathariel: that's in a river, btw ...
ArPharazonV: this *is* a lake, isn't it?
luthienathariel: yes
Eonwe Valar: Cuivienen?
ArPharazonV: oh, good one
luthienathariel: hey, if you want me to tell it, I can .. I need not draw it out long as a guessing game
Gamatzgamatz: hey thanks Eonwe :-D srry i was away
luthienathariel: no, not cuivienen
luthienathariel: that is not a lake, but a bay ;-)
luthienathariel: or is it ...
luthienathariel: hmm
Eonwe Valar: I'm still willing to play the guessing game a few more tries, hehe.
luthienathariel: sure.
Eonwe Valar: Cuivienen was on the bay of a large inland lake.
luthienathariel: yes, but large indeed.
VardaValar1: ok, Eonwe's history gap is repaired.
luthienathariel: I imagine it a lot more rocky
luthienathariel: and mountainous
Eonwe Valar: Well, since the image doesn't give the complete size of the lake, I thought it could be much bigger :}
luthienathariel: well, like that pic by Ted Nasmith
ArPharazonV: I don't know any lakes! I remember a lake forming when the lamps collapsed, but otherwise...
VardaValar1: Interesting building on the island. Just took a look.
luthienathariel: lol, yes, that is technically true (size is not to be seen)
VardaValar1: I like having lots of "levels".
luthienathariel: but it LOOKS not big .. or rather, I did not mean it to look big
ArPharazonV: unless you're talking about Laketown, but that's technically in a river :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm thinking MInas Tirith (1st Age) but the island seems a bit unfortified for that.
ArPharazonV: Osgiliath?
ArPharazonV: no, river..
luthienathariel: no
VardaValar1: Lots of foreground and on into a distance. Stars, light on the water.
Eonwe Valar: Am I correct is guessing we're dealign with First Age geography?
luthienathariel: (lol, I like the use of the word "technical" in that sense -> makes me think of that remark in one of the Terry Pratchett books ...)
luthienathariel: er
luthienathariel: yes, or before even ....
ArPharazonV: you read Discworld? :-)
luthienathariel: oh yes.
ArPharazonV: excellent! so do I
Eonwe Valar: Almaren.
VardaValar1: We also have a space on the forum for "other authors". :-)
ArPharazonV: not fully caught up yet though, currently in Monstrous Regiment
ArPharazonV: but let's not drift offtopic
Eonwe Valar: Thought Almaren would be much much bigger, containing all the land of Arda, and so the fact we see a shore not part of the island would rule Almaren out.
Eonwe Valar: Thought = Though
luthienathariel: ah yes here it is: ""It's called a shovel... I've seen gardeners use them. You stick the sharp end in the ground. Then it gets a bit technical."
luthienathariel: ok
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I remember that quote. :-) Nice
luthienathariel: no, not almaren
ArPharazonV: that sounds familiar..
luthienathariel: (that is from Reaper man)
fladrifv: *waves* namarie all, this ent needs to catch a nap
VardaValar1: lake of Tarn Aeluin?
ArPharazonV: ahh :-)
luthienathariel: Happy Slumberings!
VardaValar1: Sleep fast, Fladrif?
VardaValar1: :-)
(2:38:41 AM) ArPharazonV: Namarie, Flad! [Note: time stamp from Fladrif's transcript in the Netherlands.]
luthienathariel: no, and I don't know that one .. where is it?
VardaValar1: Barahir and his outlaws sheltered near it.
luthienathariel: ahh
luthienathariel: ok!
luthienathariel: good one .. but, no.
luthienathariel: I dont think it is described that detailed ..
luthienathariel: lemme see
Eonwe Valar: Almaren was the last one jumping to mind. I'll leave further guessing to others, unless I suddenly get some sort of inspiration.
luthienathariel: oh yes, it is described pretty well
luthienathariel: now i remember that ...
luthienathariel: Now the forest of Dorthonion rose southward into mountainous moors; and in the east of those highlands there lay a lake,
luthienathariel: Tarn Aeluin, with wild heaths about it, and all that land was pathless and untamed,
luthienathariel: for even in the days of the Long Peace none had dwelt there. But the waters of Tarn Aeluin were held in reverence,
luthienathariel: for they were clear and blue by day and by night were a mirror for the stars; and it was said that Melian herself had hollowed that water in the days of old.
VardaValar1: Lake Mithrim was where Feanor and his people were attacked by orcs, after abandoning Fingolfin
VardaValar1: No mountains in the image, heh.
luthienathariel: nope :-)
luthienathariel: just say so if I can tell ..
ArPharazonV: it is always tempting to continue guessing
ArPharazonV: and when the answer is given it's more tempting to think "I would have thought of that, eventually"
ArPharazonV: but reality is, you never do....
luthienathariel: heh
luthienathariel: yes
VardaValar1: Turin's madness was cured at Ivrin's lake, after the death of Beleg.
Ancbeard has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I for one will stop guessing, unless it's Gondolin in the days when that place still lay under water (I think it did, once)
VardaValar1: ok, guess I should stop guessing then.
fladrifv has left the room.
luthienathariel: Gondolin under water?
ArPharazonV: I think I heard something like that once
luthienathariel: well, after the war of Wrath
ArPharazonV: that the valley of.. Tumladen? something like that.... was carved out by water but had long since gone dry
luthienathariel: but ok, no ...
luthienathariel: oh
luthienathariel: well, anyway, no, it is lake Lórellin
luthienathariel: in Lórien
ArPharazonV: ah, Valinor?
luthienathariel: yes
VardaValar1: Definitely not a vat lake. :-)

ArPharazonV: didn't someone die there? Miriel?
luthienathariel: lay there, in a coma of sorts ..
Eonwe Valar: Miriel's body rests there uninhabited I believe.
ArPharazonV: see, I would have thought of that eventually *nods sagely*
luthienathariel: I think she eventually got up, and joined Vaire
VardaValar1: Finwe's first wife.
luthienathariel: there is a chapter about her in HoME 10
ArPharazonV: anyway, I'm going to bed
luthienathariel: but that may be an alternative version
ArPharazonV: will be saving and sending
VardaValar1: She never returned to life in Valinor, which let Finwe remarry.
ArPharazonV: and it's a looong one since it's one continuous session since I logged in this afternoon :-)
Eonwe Valar: I've been too busy marshallgin the armies of the Valar to remember an island in such a peaceful place as Aman :}
VardaValar1: oy :-)
Eonwe Valar: *marshalling
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar!
Eonwe Valar (7:47:33 PM): *marshalling [Note: Time stamps in CDT from Varda]
ArPharazonV (7:48:03 PM): saved!
Eonwe Valar (7:48:07 PM): Miriel never took back up her body.
luthienathariel (7:48:18 PM): check HoME 10 ...
Eonwe Valar (7:48:24 PM): It was part of the judgement when Finwë remarried.
ArPharazonV (7:48:43 PM): I've found that HoME should only be judged as canon when it's not explicitly contradicted
Eonwe Valar (7:48:43 PM): I'm referring to HoME :}
ArPharazonV (7:48:48 PM): and this sounds like a contradiction :)
Eonwe Valar (7:49:14 PM): The Sil says she weaved Tapestries in Vaireë's Halls, not that she took back up her body.
VardaValar1 (7:50:18 PM): Vaire weaves the tapestries that cover the walls of Mandos. Lot of area, could use help. :-)
VardaValar1 (7:51:30 PM): Vaire, wonder if these days webwork would be included!
ArPharazonV (7:51:55 PM): sent!
ArPharazonV (7:52:14 PM): my longest transcript yet, from a temporal view anyway
VardaValar1 (7:52:21 PM): Thanks!
ArPharazonV (7:52:41 PM): going just about exactly 13 hours :)
ArPharazonV (7:53:05 PM): Namarie all!
VardaValar1 (7:53:10 PM): Namarie!
ArPharazonV (7:53:18 PM): see you.... well, I'd say next week, but I'll try to be in the room as often as I can :)
VardaValar1 (7:53:27 PM): cool :-)
ArPharazonV (7:54:05 PM): *waves*
ArPharazonV (7:54:14 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (7:55:13 PM): Seeing a group of Valarites chat is to see a sea of smilies.
Eonwe Valar (7:56:54 PM): Hmm, can't find the part in the Sil that refers to Miriel weaving tapestries in Mandos... I'm certain I've read it though, perhaps even in regards to a specific tapestry..
luthienathariel (7:57:16 PM): I am looking in HoME now ..
luthienathariel (8:01:19 PM): there are probably contradicting versions
luthienathariel (8:01:24 PM): here it says this ...
Eonwe Valar (8:01:31 PM): In regards to the ruling on Miriel's fëa, I believe it can be found in Laws and Customs of the Eldar.
luthienathariel (8:01:42 PM): In  Aman   only  was
  there  no  decay. Thus  Miriel was  there rehoused  in her  own body,  as is
  hereafter told.)
luthienathariel (8:01:46 PM): yes.
luthienathariel (8:01:48 PM): indeed ...
luthienathariel (8:02:00 PM): page 201
Eonwe Valar (8:04:18 PM): Is that your page for "Laws and Customs," or is that for you quote?
Eonwe Valar (8:04:33 PM): *your quote
luthienathariel (8:04:39 PM): from HoME ..
luthienathariel (8:04:45 PM): Laws  Customs
luthienathariel (8:04:46 PM): indeed
Eonwe Valar (8:05:25 PM): Ok, Laws and Customs is on page 254 for me.
Eonwe Valar (8:05:58 PM): Er, 207. 254 was for the later versions of the story.
luthienathariel (8:07:02 PM): ah
luthienathariel (8:07:21 PM): I've read through this a couple of weeks ago .. but it is hard to find back
luthienathariel (8:08:46 PM): ah yes, here it is ...
luthienathariel (8:08:59 PM): it is on page 224
luthienathariel (8:09:06 PM): (of 378)
luthienathariel (8:09:10 PM): 376
luthienathariel (8:09:54 PM): Therefore  when  Nienna  came  to  him  and  renewed   her  prayer
for Miriel,  he consented,  accepting the  abnegation of  Finwe as
her  ransom.
luthienathariel (8:10:11 PM): Then  the  fe'a  of  Miriel  was  released   and  came
before  Manwe  and  received  his  blessing;  and  she went  then to
Lorien  and  re-entered  her  body,
luthienathariel (8:10:19 PM): and  awoke  again, as  one that
cometh  out  of  a  deep  sleep;  and  she  arose  and her  body was
luthienathariel (8:10:27 PM): But  after she  had stood  in the  twilight of  Lorien a
long  while in  thought, remembering  her former  life, and  all the

luthienathariel (8:10:33 PM): tidings  that  she  had  learned,  her  heart  was still  sad, and  she had
no  desire  to  return  to  her  own  people.
luthienathariel (8:10:41 PM): Therefore  she  went  to the
doors  of  the  House  of  Vaire  and  prayed  to  be  admitted;  and  this
prayer  was  granted,
luthienathariel (8:10:48 PM): although  in   that  House   none  of   the  Living
dwelt  nor  have  others  ever  entered  it  in  the  body.(18)
luthienathariel (8:10:56 PM): But  Miriel
was   accepted  by   Vaire  and   became  her   chief  handmaid;   and  all
tidings  of  the  Noldor
luthienathariel (8:11:05 PM): down   the  years   from  their   beginning  were
brought  to  her,  and  she  wove  them  in  webs  historial,  so  fair and
skilled  that   they  seemed   to  live,
luthienathariel (8:11:12 PM): imperishable,  shining   with  a
light  of  many  hues  fairer   than  are   known  in   Middle-earth.
luthienathariel (8:11:19 PM): This
labour  Finwe  is  at  times  permitted  to  look   upon.
luthienathariel (8:11:26 PM): And   still  she
is  at  work,  though  her  name  has   been  changed.
luthienathariel (8:11:34 PM): For  now   she  is
named  Firiel,*  which  to  the  Eldar  signifies  'She  that died',(19)
luthienathariel (8:11:42 PM): As fair  as the  webs of  Firiel is  praise that
is given seldom even to works of the Eldar.
luthienathariel (8:12:02 PM): ow, forgot a snippet:
luthienathariel (8:12:04 PM): "which  to  the  Eldar  signifies  'She  that died',(19) and
also  'She  that sighed'. "
luthienathariel (8:12:13 PM): :)
luthienathariel (8:12:40 PM): but sure, another version will probably be different.
VardaValar1 (8:13:48 PM): Even in that one, Vaire is of Mandos.
luthienathariel (8:14:45 PM): I think that is always the case?
VardaValar1 (8:15:04 PM): Yes.
Gamatzgamatz (8:19:06 PM) has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (8:41:40 PM): Found where you were quoting from. Fair enough, it does say in that version she went back to her body. It took Finwë trading places with her. What a generous guy, hehe.
luthienathariel (8:42:27 PM): I am not certain what it says in the Sil
VardaValar1 (8:42:29 PM): They could not both be on Arda at the same time, so that's what it would take.
luthienathariel (8:42:36 PM): yes
luthienathariel (8:42:44 PM): that was what the hassle was all about
VardaValar1 (8:45:52 PM): In the Sil, she was stuck with her decision seems like.
luthienathariel (8:59:29 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (9:51:00 PM): Manwe said happy 11th :-)
VardaValar1 (9:51:10 PM): He was signing up for an online course.
Eonwe Valar (10:06:44 PM): Cool. Happy 11th to him :}
VardaValar1 (10:06:55 PM): :-)
Eonwe Valar (10:07:32 PM): Glad to still hear from him.
VardaValar1 (10:07:39 PM): aye! :-)
VardaValar1 (11:24:47 PM): My cantelope [Dior-V] chatted a bit, has to go study again. Says happy anniversary
VardaValar1 (11:24:55 PM): Good night all!