Eonwe Valar: Good thing you waited until the end of the week to say that, Varda, heh e:}
VardaValar1: Not any good to you if you are not present, at least not much.
VardaValar1: The marathon was a different kettle of fish. :-)
VardaValar1: They asked for it to be on for general purposes.
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Well,
I'd be willing to pop in here during the week when I'm at my computer
in the chance other Valarites will pop in, so as long as you're not
bored of seeing me, you'll at least see me here, hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: If you come in when I'm here, of course :} Can't see me when I'm not here :}
VardaValar1: I may be do that as well. :-)
VardaValar1: You are not boring, Fionwe. No problem. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Afk for a moment.
VardaValar1: May I suggest that we now call this free time?
VardaValar1: We have reached a natural stopping place.
VardaValar1: We may move to an unstructured format. *bangs gavel*
ArPharazonV: what are Valarguild plans for Wrath of the Lich King
ArPharazonV: everyone in Lothar continuing with it? :-)
arwenv1: I plan to
VardaValar1: Aye, WotLK planned here for our family.
VardaValar1: 5 Valarites. :-)
VardaValar1: Gimli hopes to be able to come back to gaming later. Things got tight recently.
ArPharazonV: looking forward to the achievements?
arwenv1: I've already started working on them
I went over a few titles and achievements with other players, and I
figure I'll already receive like half a dozen titles the moment
achievements are implemented ;-)
arwenv1: =o Evenstarr, my current main has a nice bundle on beta
VardaValar1: Hehe, love this page. We need some comments for the current games though.
arwenv1: some of them wont be implimented though
arwenv1: titles and achievements that they have no way to track, you have to do over again sometimes
VardaValar1: You know you're in Valar when
arwenv1: my problem is Im switching main characters come expansion =o
arwenv1: so have to do all the silly achivements again :-)
VardaValar1: That should be a problem for the retro stuff.
arwenv1: well some of the retro stuff doesnt go through
ArPharazonV: you're going Death Knight? :-)
arwenv1: like killing pre-bc raid/dungeon bosses
VardaValar1: Fangorn and Elwing are on WoW right now. Sauron just left
arwenv1: I'm just switching mains
arwenv1: if you killed pre-bc raid/dungeon bosses but there was no quest associated with it
arwenv1: and you dont still have some of the loot, then you wont get credit
ArPharazonV: hmm... I guess if you did the quest for the red scepter shard, you'll get credit for Nefarian, right?
ArPharazonV: and if you did the Weavil quest, do you get Onyxia credit?
arwenv1: only if killing them was part of the quest
arwenv1: or if you had loot that dropped only from them still
ArPharazonV: you needed loot from them to do the quest
ArPharazonV: so it's a bit.. tricky
arwenv1: then it may count
arwenv1: I'm not sure :-)
arwenv1: I just know a lot of things you dont get credit for until you do it again
ArPharazonV: a lot of aforementioned titles have to do with reputation or exploration, though :-)
ArPharazonV: so I guess I'll have those
ArPharazonV: I'll be a Diplomat!
arwenv1: it was interesting to look at my exploration on my current main
ArPharazonV: and I'm still working on Justicar
Gamatzgamatz has entered the room.
arwenv1: and see 2 small weird out of the way places I hadnt found
Gamatzgamatz: hey everybody
arwenv1: and go get them and get outland explorer
VardaValar1: Aiya Thranduil :-) [Note: side-windowed with Thranduil to do some quick updating for web pages
ArPharazonV: well, that's been some time
arwenv1: you cant get the explorer badge till you explore outlands too
arwenv1: so either it waits on 80
ArPharazonV: you mean Northrend :-)
arwenv1: or a lot of death runnings
arwenv1: yes, Northrend :-)
arwenv1: on the DK thing, I'll make one eventually, but my new main is also a priest, just rerolling a dran-i >.>
ArPharazonV: I've got one in mind already
ArPharazonV: figured out race, gender, and exact appearance already, and I've gotten a friend to hold the name :-)
ArPharazonV: problem is, I'll need to delete a character for one, and it'll have to be the one character I made for the Valarguild branch...
he's only lvl 2, hasn't ever been off Teldrassil, and he's the only
class I have twice (well, except the other one, but that one's a lot
ArPharazonV: so it's the obvious choice
ArPharazonV: I've already discussed it with Arien though and I'll be sending in another alt for the Valarguild on our server :-)
arwenv1: I have a name reserved already as well
I'm not deleting him yet though, he still serves me well as a reagent
bank, and I have some vague hope that maybe Blizzard will make an extra
slot for the DK
ArPharazonV: but there's not much hope for that
arwenv1: I have all my character spaces on 2 accounts filled up
arwenv1: but a handful of those are just placeholders
arwenv1: I have such a hard time with names
arwenv1: so I make a lvl 1 with a name I like when I think of it
arwenv1: and if there is no room, I delete a name I like less and make another :-)
arwenv1: that way no one else gets it in the mean time!
well, I made my first character called Calaron, based on Pharazon and
Calion, and from there I started the tradition of starting practically
every name with Cal
ArPharazonV: and besides my hunter and warrior, Caliona and Caldarion, no name has any actual tolkien roots :-)
arwenv1: I stopped naming with tolkien names a long time ago
ArPharazonV: I just made up the other names when I made the characters, only a handful with forethought
arwenv1: there really isnt many options =P
VardaValar1: There are lots. But it helps to have help
ArPharazonV: wanted to name my Draenei shaman Cal'jaeden at first, for a laugh, but I thought better of it
VardaValar1: And you can mess with the spelling. Arrwhen :-)
ArPharazonV: now he's called Caljaenor :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, and I still have an Armenelos on another server, but I haven't logged him in years
ArPharazonV: that's the beauty of being a king, you can exploit your entire country for names :-)
arwenv1: I like variety in names
I've been playing a sort of realtime space-based web-game called Ogame
and I named all my planets after locations on Numenor, just because I
arwenv1: that sounds like fun :-)
ArPharazonV: Armenelos, Romenna, Andunia, Numenora, Meneltarma, Eldalonde, Nindamos, etc :-)
ArPharazonV: Nindamos! the least known named town on Numenor, a fishing town on the south coast
ArPharazonV: only named once in a text about Numenor in Unfinished Tales, as well as placed on the accompanying map
ArPharazonV: quite a rare find :-)
arwenv1: cool :-)
ArPharazonV: it's an interesting experience as king to look on a map and think "Hey, a town I never knew I had" ;-)
luthienathariel: so where do you think this is: http://img.skitch.com/20081006-k6ig3917unnreidcciqae8bs7s.jpg
Eonwe Valar: back
VardaValar1: Aiyata :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hantal
Eonwe Valar: Heya Thranduil. Happy 11th Anniversary :}
Eonwe Valar: ?
ArPharazonV: a lake, surrounded by greenery
ArPharazonV: an island in the middle also with greenery and a small structure
luthienathariel: I made sort of a sketch, and I wondered if someone recognises it
luthienathariel: or rather
ArPharazonV: where could it be...
luthienathariel: has a similar visual of it
ArPharazonV: I'm afraid I don't recognize it
Eonwe Valar: Are we guessing Tolkien geography or real qorld geography?
Eonwe Valar: *real world
Eonwe Valar: The Island of the Dead That Live. Forget the Elvish name off the top of my head.
luthienathariel: Tol Galen :p
VardaValar1: Beren and Luthien's island
luthienathariel: that's Tol Galen
VardaValar1: aye, slow typing
luthienathariel: that's in a river, btw ...
ArPharazonV: this *is* a lake, isn't it?
Eonwe Valar: Cuivienen?
ArPharazonV: oh, good one
luthienathariel: hey, if you want me to tell it, I can .. I need not draw it out long as a guessing game
Gamatzgamatz: hey thanks Eonwe :-D srry i was away
luthienathariel: no, not cuivienen
luthienathariel: that is not a lake, but a bay ;-)
luthienathariel: or is it ...
Eonwe Valar: I'm still willing to play the guessing game a few more tries, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: Cuivienen was on the bay of a large inland lake.
luthienathariel: yes, but large indeed.
VardaValar1: ok, Eonwe's history
gap is repaired.
luthienathariel: I imagine it a lot more rocky
luthienathariel: and mountainous
Eonwe Valar: Well, since the image doesn't give the complete size of the lake, I thought it could be much bigger :}
luthienathariel: well, like that pic by Ted Nasmith
ArPharazonV: I don't know any lakes! I remember a lake forming when the lamps collapsed, but otherwise...
VardaValar1: Interesting building on the island. Just took a look.
luthienathariel: lol, yes, that is technically true (size is not to be seen)
VardaValar1: I like having lots of "levels".
luthienathariel: but it LOOKS not big .. or rather, I did not mean it to look big
ArPharazonV: unless you're talking about Laketown, but that's technically in a river :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm thinking MInas Tirith (1st Age) but the island seems a bit unfortified for that.
ArPharazonV: no, river..
VardaValar1: Lots of foreground and on into a distance. Stars, light on the water.
Eonwe Valar: Am I correct is guessing we're dealign with First Age geography?
(lol, I like the use of the word "technical" in that sense -> makes
me think of that remark in one of the Terry Pratchett books ...)
luthienathariel: yes, or before even ....
ArPharazonV: you read Discworld? :-)
luthienathariel: oh yes.
ArPharazonV: excellent! so do I
Eonwe Valar: Almaren.
VardaValar1: We also have a space on the forum for "other authors". :-)
ArPharazonV: not fully caught up yet though, currently in Monstrous Regiment
ArPharazonV: but let's not drift offtopic
Eonwe Valar: Thought
Almaren would be much much bigger, containing all the land of Arda, and
so the fact we see a shore not part of the island would rule Almaren
Eonwe Valar: Thought = Though
ah yes here it is: ""It's called a shovel... I've seen gardeners use
them. You stick the sharp end in the ground. Then it gets a bit
VardaValar1: I remember that quote. :-) Nice
luthienathariel: no, not almaren
ArPharazonV: that sounds familiar..
luthienathariel: (that is from Reaper man)
fladrifv: *waves* namarie all, this ent needs to catch a nap
VardaValar1: lake of Tarn Aeluin?
ArPharazonV: ahh :-)
luthienathariel: Happy Slumberings!
VardaValar1: Sleep fast, Fladrif?
(2:38:41 AM) ArPharazonV: Namarie, Flad! [Note: time stamp from Fladrif's transcript in the Netherlands
luthienathariel: no, and I don't know that one .. where is it?
VardaValar1: Barahir and his outlaws sheltered near it.
luthienathariel: good one .. but, no.
luthienathariel: I dont think it is described that detailed ..
luthienathariel: lemme see
Eonwe Valar: Almaren was the last one jumping to mind. I'll leave further guessing to others, unless I suddenly get some sort of inspiration.
luthienathariel: oh yes, it is described pretty well
luthienathariel: now i remember that ...
luthienathariel: Now the forest of Dorthonion rose southward into mountainous moors; and in the east of those highlands there lay a lake,
luthienathariel: Tarn Aeluin, with wild heaths about it, and all that land was pathless and untamed,
luthienathariel: for even in the days of the Long Peace none had dwelt there. But the waters of Tarn Aeluin were held in reverence,
for they were clear and blue by day and by night were a mirror for the
stars; and it was said that Melian herself had hollowed that water in
the days of old.
VardaValar1: Lake Mithrim was where Feanor and his people were attacked by orcs, after abandoning Fingolfin
VardaValar1: No mountains in the image, heh.
luthienathariel: nope :-)
luthienathariel: just say so if I can tell ..
ArPharazonV: it is always tempting to continue guessing
ArPharazonV: and when the answer is given it's more tempting to think "I would have thought of that, eventually"
ArPharazonV: but reality is, you never do....
VardaValar1: Turin's madness was cured at Ivrin's lake, after the death of Beleg.
Ancbeard has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I for one will stop guessing, unless it's Gondolin in the days when that place still lay under water (I think it did, once)
VardaValar1: ok, guess I should stop guessing then.
fladrifv has left the room.
luthienathariel: Gondolin under water?
ArPharazonV: I think I heard something like that once
luthienathariel: well, after the war of Wrath
ArPharazonV: that the valley of.. Tumladen? something like that.... was carved out by water but had long since gone dry
luthienathariel: but ok, no ...
luthienathariel: well, anyway, no, it is lake Lórellin
luthienathariel: in Lórien
ArPharazonV: ah, Valinor?
VardaValar1: Definitely not a vat lake. :-)
ArPharazonV: didn't someone die there? Miriel
luthienathariel: lay there, in a coma of sorts ..
Eonwe Valar: Miriel's body rests there uninhabited I believe.
ArPharazonV: see, I would have thought of that eventually *nods sagely*
luthienathariel: I think she eventually got up, and joined Vaire
VardaValar1: Finwe's first wife.
luthienathariel: there is a chapter about her in HoME 10
ArPharazonV: anyway, I'm going to bed
luthienathariel: but that may be an alternative version
ArPharazonV: will be saving and sending
VardaValar1: She never returned to life in Valinor, which let Finwe remarry.
ArPharazonV: and it's a looong one since it's one continuous session since I logged in this afternoon :-)
Eonwe Valar: I've been too busy marshallgin the armies of the Valar to remember an island in such a peaceful place as Aman :}
VardaValar1: oy :-)
Eonwe Valar: *marshalling
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar!
Eonwe Valar (7:47:33 PM): *marshalling [Note: Time stamps in CDT from Varda]
ArPharazonV (7:48:03 PM): saved!
Eonwe Valar (7:48:07 PM): Miriel never took back up her body.
luthienathariel (7:48:18 PM): check HoME 10 ...
Eonwe Valar (7:48:24 PM): It was part of the judgement when FinwÃ« remarried.
ArPharazonV (7:48:43 PM): I've found that HoME should only be judged as canon when it's not explicitly contradicted
Eonwe Valar (7:48:43 PM): I'm referring to HoME :}
ArPharazonV (7:48:48 PM): and this sounds like a contradiction
Eonwe Valar (7:49:14 PM): The Sil says she weaved Tapestries in VaireÃ«'s Halls, not that she took back up her body.
VardaValar1 (7:50:18 PM): Vaire weaves the tapestries that cover the walls of Mandos. Lot of area, could use help.
VardaValar1 (7:51:30 PM): Vaire, wonder if these days webwork would be included!
ArPharazonV (7:51:55 PM): sent!
ArPharazonV (7:52:14 PM): my longest transcript yet, from a temporal view anyway
VardaValar1 (7:52:21 PM): Thanks!
ArPharazonV (7:52:41 PM): going just about exactly 13 hours
ArPharazonV (7:53:05 PM): Namarie all!
VardaValar1 (7:53:10 PM): Namarie!
ArPharazonV (7:53:18 PM): see you.... well, I'd say next week, but I'll try to be in the room as often as I can
VardaValar1 (7:53:27 PM): cool
ArPharazonV (7:54:05 PM): *waves*
ArPharazonV (7:54:14 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (7:55:13 PM): Seeing a group of Valarites chat is to see a sea of smilies.
Eonwe Valar (7:56:54 PM): Hmm,
can't find the part in the Sil that refers to Miriel weaving tapestries
in Mandos... I'm certain I've read it though, perhaps even in regards
to a specific tapestry..
luthienathariel (7:57:16 PM): I am looking in HoME now ..
luthienathariel (8:01:19 PM): there are probably contradicting versions
luthienathariel (8:01:24 PM): here it says this ...
Eonwe Valar (8:01:31 PM): In regards to the ruling on Miriel's fÃ«a, I believe it can be found in Laws and Customs of the Eldar.
luthienathariel (8:01:42 PM): In Aman only was
there no decay. Thus Miriel was there rehoused in her own body, as is
luthienathariel (8:01:46 PM): yes.
luthienathariel (8:01:48 PM): indeed ...
luthienathariel (8:02:00 PM): page 201
Eonwe Valar (8:04:18 PM): Is that your page for "Laws and Customs," or is that for you quote?
Eonwe Valar (8:04:33 PM): *your quote
luthienathariel (8:04:39 PM): from HoME ..
luthienathariel (8:04:45 PM): Laws Customs
luthienathariel (8:04:46 PM): indeed
Eonwe Valar (8:05:25 PM): Ok, Laws and Customs is on page 254 for me.
Eonwe Valar (8:05:58 PM): Er, 207. 254 was for the later versions of the story.
luthienathariel (8:07:02 PM): ah
luthienathariel (8:07:21 PM): I've read through this a couple of weeks ago .. but it is hard to find back
luthienathariel (8:08:46 PM): ah yes, here it is ...
luthienathariel (8:08:59 PM): it is on page 224
luthienathariel (8:09:06 PM): (of 378)
luthienathariel (8:09:10 PM): 376
luthienathariel (8:09:54 PM): Therefore when Nienna came to him and renewed her prayer
for Miriel, he consented, accepting the abnegation of Finwe as
luthienathariel (8:10:11 PM): Then the fe'a of Miriel was released and came
before Manwe and received his blessing; and she went then to
Lorien and re-entered her body,
luthienathariel (8:10:19 PM): and awoke again, as one that
cometh out of a deep sleep; and she arose and her body was
luthienathariel (8:10:27 PM): But after she had stood in the twilight of Lorien a
long while in thought, remembering her former life, and all the
luthienathariel (8:10:33 PM): tidings that she had learned, her heart was still sad, and she had
no desire to return to her own people.
luthienathariel (8:10:41 PM): Therefore she went to the
doors of the House of Vaire
and prayed to be admitted; and this
prayer was granted,
luthienathariel (8:10:48 PM): although in that House none of the Living
dwelt nor have others ever entered it in the body.(18)
luthienathariel (8:10:56 PM): But Miriel
was accepted by Vaire
and became her chief
handmaid; and all
tidings of the Noldor
luthienathariel (8:11:05 PM): down the years from their beginning were
brought to her, and she wove
them in webs historial, so fair and
skilled that they seemed to live,
luthienathariel (8:11:12 PM): imperishable, shining with a
light of many hues fairer
than are known in Middle-earth.
luthienathariel (8:11:19 PM): This
labour Finwe is at times permitted to look upon.
luthienathariel (8:11:26 PM): And still she
is at work, though her name has been changed.
luthienathariel (8:11:34 PM): For now she is
named Firiel,* which to the Eldar signifies 'She that died',(19)
luthienathariel (8:11:42 PM): As fair as the webs of Firiel is praise that
is given seldom even to works of the Eldar.
luthienathariel (8:12:02 PM): ow, forgot a snippet:
luthienathariel (8:12:04 PM): "which to the Eldar signifies 'She that died',(19) and
also 'She that sighed'. "
luthienathariel (8:12:13 PM):
luthienathariel (8:12:40 PM): but sure, another version will probably be different.
VardaValar1 (8:13:48 PM): Even in that one, Vaire is of Mandos.
luthienathariel (8:14:45 PM): I think that is always the case?
VardaValar1 (8:15:04 PM): Yes.
Gamatzgamatz (8:19:06 PM) has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (8:41:40 PM): Found
where you were quoting from. Fair enough, it does say in that version
she went back to her body. It took FinwÃ« trading places with her. What
a generous guy, hehe.
luthienathariel (8:42:27 PM): I am not certain what it says in the Sil
VardaValar1 (8:42:29 PM): They could not both be on Arda at the same time, so that's what it would take.
luthienathariel (8:42:36 PM): yes
luthienathariel (8:42:44 PM): that was what the hassle was all about
VardaValar1 (8:45:52 PM): In the Sil, she was stuck with her decision seems like.
luthienathariel (8:59:29 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (9:51:00 PM): Manwe said happy 11th
VardaValar1 (9:51:10 PM): He was signing up for an online course.
Eonwe Valar (10:06:44 PM): Cool. Happy 11th to him :}
VardaValar1 (10:06:55 PM):
Eonwe Valar (10:07:32 PM): Glad to still hear from him.
VardaValar1 (10:07:39 PM): aye!
VardaValar1 (11:24:47 PM): My cantelope [Dior-V] chatted a bit, has to go study again. Says happy anniversary
VardaValar1 (11:24:55 PM): Good night all!