Valar Guild

October 26, 2008 Meeting

5pm EDT (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon-(V) and Varda-(Valar)

Attending: ()
    Aerandir V/mordacil, Ancbeard, AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Barahir-(V)/metarus208, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, Luthien-(TV)/luthienathariel, VardaValar1 (presiding)

    Articles needed to help the upcoming Hobbit movie, and the one for the 60 years between the Hobbit and LotR.
    More Tolkien.
    Diwali, atheism.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: oh, right, no DST there
ArPharazonV: well, I'm in BT right now, so... do without me for a bit :-)
VardaValar1: 3:59 by my clock, so 4:59 EDT
VardaValar1: We'll try to manage, Phar. Have fun!
Aerandir V has entered the room.
mordacil has left the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome, all. :-)

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Barahir-(V) sent an email. He hopes to come to the meeting tonight.
VardaValar1: Most here are afk, but do you have any Membership news?
Eonwe Valar: None from me.

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Three new stories are up, another one is in progress from Barahir.
VardaValar1: "Celebrian's Special Day" by Jay of Lasgalen
VardaValar1: Three related stories by Cassia, Siobhan, and Katie:
VardaValar1: "The Cave Story Trio" with Aragorn, Arwen, and Legolas. Illustrated for all three parts by Cassia-(TV). Humor.
VardaValar1: "Only the Beginning" by Cassia-(TV).
VardaValar1: A vignette of Aragorn's coronation
VardaValar1: For fun, check out a link to "Book a Minute"
VardaValar1: It includes The Hobbit and the LotR books
VardaValar1: I trust we can do better than those. :-)
VardaValar1: Anything else on the webfront?

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: What games have you folks played this week that weren't WoW or LotRO?
fladrifv: Reversi *grin*
VardaValar1: How did you find time! Thanks :-)
ArPharazonV: ehrr... not much I'm afraid... 't was mostly trying all the new stuff in WoW for me, didn't have time for much else ;-)
fladrifv: and a lot of board games doe those count?
VardaValar1: If you played them with other Valar, they could.
fladrifv: ok then they dont, actually one that was with arphar :-)
ArPharazonV: Risk!
VardaValar1: That counts!
ArPharazonV: anyway, back to smashing Illidari Council, brb
fladrifv: epic battle for the total earth
VardaValar1: Forgot to mention, Sauron and Gimli went to the Texas Renaissance Festival together.
VardaValar1: Elwing, Meriadoc, Fangorn and I plan on going Sunday Nov 2, so I'll be absent then.
VardaValar1: Anyone else in the Texas area who wants to join us for that is welcome.
VardaValar1: Eowyn might also be coming.
VardaValar1: Bilbo already went with other friends.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you're welcome to join with your family. :-)
VardaValar1: If not, you have to chair! ;-)
VardaValar1: Pharazon might yet have to.
VardaValar1: On to WoW
VardaValar1: Phar is fighting for life and loot, so we could start with Eonwe if you're there?
Eonwe Valar: Sure
VardaValar1: WoW Lothar :-)
Eonwe Valar: General: The Scourge Invasion has begun :}
Eonwe Valar: Apparently in the matter of a week, the Scourge Epidemic went from infection to invasion (thought infection is still there)
Eonwe Valar: If you get infected, you turn into a zombie, who is a member of the Scourge faction, can talk to all zombies regardless of affiliation in "life," and convert more zombies to spread the plague.
Eonwe Valar: I've been working on the opposite side: stemming the tide of the plague :}
Eonwe Valar: Yesterday, the Lich King began attempted to set up buildings at staging points again, like when the Scourge invasion came to unlock Naxxramas.
Eonwe Valar: It's the same deal, only the items are better and the creatures are a higher level.
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: oops and aiya :-)
Eonwe Valar: It's a great way to get to Revered with the Argent Dawn, if nothing else.
Eonwe Valar: There's also a new quest in Karazhan for the event.
Eonwe Valar: Also, I've been inspired to write a tale about this invasion from my Paladin's point of view, adding more as the invasion progresses.
Eonwe Valar: You can find it on the forum under WoW's RP/Tales of Lore board.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar:
Eonwe Valar: This week, I'd offered to take anyone's lower level characters through a list of dungeons I someone hand't got the Ahcievement credit for.
Eonwe Valar: Instead, we went through Blood Furnace and Slave Pens.
Eonwe Valar: Both went smoothly.
Eonwe Valar: On this run were myself, Varda, Sauron, Bilbo, and Eowyn.
Eonwe Valar: After this, Sauron, Bilbo, myself, a friend, and Arwen took a shot at the Headless Horseman.
Eonwe Valar: In total we got 12 runs with some switching around of characters, and littled the cemetery with the corpses of the Horseman.
Eonwe Valar: *littered
Eonwe Valar: We saw 1 sword, 2 Squashlings, a hallowed Helm (cloth one for the achievement), 2 brooms, and a whole pile of rings drop.
Eonwe Valar: After that we broke up for the night, Arwen and Bilbo going on to find a group for the "leeeroy" achievement.
Eonwe Valar: Oh, and last but not least, Last Sunday, we got Eowyn her epic Warlock mount :}
Eonwe Valar: Think that does it.
VardaValar1: Pharazon, do you have a report?
AriehnV: i think he is afk probably
AriehnV: or distracted ;-)
VardaValar1: Arien, heya! You get to do the report for Europe. :-)
AriehnV: hehe :-) all right its short and sweet this week
AriehnV: there were no common activities as such , but we met each other in the valar channel and Valandile with his Caradhron, who is no level 51 showed up as well
ArPharazonV: rarrr, Illidari Council down
ArPharazonV: *cough* ok, no, no report with Valar
ArPharazonV: *vanishes back to WoW*
VardaValar1: *thanks Phar's vanished self*
AriehnV: the zombie event got accepted every where with both enthusiasm and scepticism as by myself
AriehnV: i am not pleased with it
AriehnV: I have mainly been crafting on both Hunter and Pali , leatherworking now up to 270 and bs is 170 odd i think
AriehnV: yo else i met Helm of course on Auchindoun but we didnt do anything together
AriehnV: thats my report done :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien. :-)
AriehnV: got a broomstick on pali and a squashling on the lock ;-)
VardaValar1: Fun!
VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: Arien, did you happen to be on LotRO this last week?
VardaValar1: Ancalagon and I of this chat room were on it, but spent some time in the beta as well.
VardaValar1: Most of what we've all been doing in LotRO is filling in Deeds, often running in small groups together to complete them for traits.
VardaValar1: We've done work on the books as well, trying to have everyone ready to go into the expansion Nov 18.
VardaValar1: My copy will probably ship on Nov 18, so I'll be late coming in.
VardaValar1: Texas has a tax not allowing us to upgrade online in LotRO. So does Washington, but no one else.
Eonwe Valar: Interesting, and glad I reserved a copy at Gamestop instead :}
VardaValar1: I did that too. : ) Good thing you did.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, have you been on LotRO this past week?
VardaValar1: I think you were mostly busy with WoW when you had gaming time.
ArPharazonV: oh, and if there's any excuse for my absence... we just gained an hour so I thought it was an hour later >.>
VardaValar1: Ready for Tolkien?
Eonwe Valar: I was in LotR Monday.
ArPharazonV: *vanishes again*
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe. : )
Eonwe Valar: *LotRO. Got some quests done I believe, so I'm fairly certain I was there :}
VardaValar1: You do usually come for Monday. : )
VardaValar1: Europe had a time change, but America didn't.
VardaValar1: These times of year are always a mess. : )

VardaValar1: Who is available for a Tolkien chat now?
VardaValar1: Answer aye
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: One of 8. Does not bode well.
VardaValar1: Two new movies are coming out covering the Hobbit, then the time between the Hobbit and the LotR.
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: How can we as Tolkien scholars with a Tolkien Site be of the most service for them?
VardaValar1: What would we like to see included in the movies?
VardaValar1: We don't want it to come out like:
VardaValar1: What would we like to see included in the movies?
Eonwe Valar: Make sure we're got plenty of quality information with sources sites for each?
AriehnV: aye uish
Eonwe Valar: *cited
VardaValar1: We need to really help out with our citations so they can show that the information is authoritative.
VardaValar1: Right.
VardaValar1: We also need to have information available, which we currently are deficient on.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, it's surprising some of the articles we don't have.
VardaValar1: Main characters need descriptions of them physically and personally, and what they did.
VardaValar1: Main areas that they traveled through need descriptions, and what took place there.
VardaValar1: Main events should be mentioned.
VardaValar1: Those main events can be linked together in a time line by yours truly, with interior links to the characters, etc.
VardaValar1: Currently the dwarf articles are incomplete, bare mentions.
VardaValar1: An overview would be nice.
VardaValar1: Think of being a person working on making a movie. What would you need to know?
VardaValar1: How it looked, the atmosphere, who was there, what are they doing?
VardaValar1: Currently we have some about the main characters but more from the standpoint of LotR.
VardaValar1: Bilbo, Gandalf need Hobbit info
VardaValar1: Costumers, actors, prop folk and others do check our site.
VardaValar1: We have been around a long time and use Tolkien references.
VardaValar1: Let's not disappoint them, and let's not expect just one person to write all the articles.
VardaValar1: Let's identify main characters.
VardaValar1: Start mentioning. : )
VardaValar1: You folks did read the Hobbit, right? :-)
ArPharazonV: once or twice...
AriehnV: for the Hobbit you mean now?
ArPharazonV: yes
Eonwe Valar: The.... Hobbit?
VardaValar1: The Hobbit is the next movie coming up.
VardaValar1: oboy ;-)
ArPharazonV: Smaug, Bard, Elrond, and 13 dwarfs
VardaValar1: Bilbo and Gandalf
ArPharazonV: *back to Illidan*
luthienathariel: beorn
VardaValar1: Thrush
VardaValar1: Thranduil
VardaValar1: Dain
AriehnV: Bilbo , Gandalf, Thorin, Oin, Gloin, Ori, Nori, Fili, kili, Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Gimli
Eonwe Valar: Seriously though, I think the Hobbit is short and interesting enough to offer a complete telling of the book in a 2-3 hour movie.
VardaValar1: Gimli? : )
ArPharazonV: Gimli?
AriehnV: err minus gimli lol
VardaValar1: I agree, Eonwe
VardaValar1: Gimli would have been alive as a younger dwarf, and could make a cameo or referenced by his father, Gloin.
AriehnV: Balin
Eonwe Valar: Dwalin
VardaValar1: Aragorn was alive and they would have met his ten year old self in Rivendell.
VardaValar1: Legolas would have been an adult warrior prince, maybe acting as one of Thranduil's captains.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, perhaps leading a sortie somewhere in Mirkwood.
VardaValar1: How about bad guys?
VardaValar1: The captains led elves to the Battle of Five Armies.
Eonwe Valar: Fladrif, any ideas if and/or how they can get Ents in there? :}
VardaValar1: Some straggling half-wild entwives? : )
Eonwe Valar: Had to pick on Fladrif. Picking on Ancalagon to answer that question for dragons would've been a gimme :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: ArPharazonV: Smaug, Bard, Elrond, and 13 dwarfs
VardaValar1: Smaug should be great for special effects time. : )
VardaValar1: I would love to see Laketown.
VardaValar1: The mayor is about half a villain.
AriehnV: The Elfs in Mirkwood .. even though not really bad guys, but no doubt the dwarves saw them as such after their imprisonment
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Wonder if those were really cells or modified storage closets. Sure were spread out. : )
AriehnV: that would Thandruil and his folk , his son Legolas would be around too
VardaValar1: Spiders too.
VardaValar1: The feasts the elves were having, interrupted by dwarves, left a lightness in the mirk, and the spiders kept away from the locations for a while afterwards.
VardaValar1: The dwarves' interruption might even have been misinterpreted as an attempt to keep the darkness.
Eonwe Valar: And these were just Silvan Elves. Imagine if the Noldor had thrown a party there :}
VardaValar1: They would have gone inside a building. ;-)
VardaValar1: Silly trees.
Eonwe Valar: ok, true :}
ArPharazonV: attercop or something?
VardaValar1: The feasts were an interesting way of warring on darkness.
VardaValar1: Attercop means "spider".
VardaValar1: more or less
VardaValar1: The spiders were intelligent, working in groups and speaking.
VardaValar1: We also have the three trolls.
VardaValar1: One helpful thing in all this is that it is Bilbo's story.
VardaValar1: We can follow him. Much easier than following the group in LotR.
VardaValar1: So we can pick on the settings that he was in.
VardaValar1: Bag End, where Gandalf brought the dwarves to him and they set out from.
VardaValar1: Then where? : )
Eonwe Valar: *sings* "Far o'er the Misty Mountains cold/ to dungeons deep and caverns old."
VardaValar1: They were on the route passing through Eriador to Rivendell, passed Beorn's Carrock, Mirkwood, on to the Lonely Mountain.
VardaValar1: So we could use articles on all those places, especially as they relate to the Hobbit.
VardaValar1: Including the Misty Mountains cold, aye. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Golbintown
VardaValar1: True!
VardaValar1: The Black Crack
Eonwe Valar: The Goblin King, who apparently was old enough to remember swords from the First Age.
VardaValar1: There's an important villain
VardaValar1: And that Gollum guy that Bilbo met there.
VardaValar1: The odd relationship of birds with both dwarves and men.
VardaValar1: Talking birds like the Thrush.
VardaValar1: The raft elves were an important part of the economy.
VardaValar1: Any other things we want to see in the upcoming movie? : )
Eonwe Valar: Seeing live how Gandalf got Beorn to take all those Dwarves would be quite amusing if done right.
VardaValar1: That would be fun!
ArPharazonV: Gollum!
VardaValar1: There's a lot going on at the Carrock. His animals, his going out as a bear protecting them.
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar. : )
VardaValar1: Gollum's cave should be a great sight to see.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Gollum's cave of gloom :}
VardaValar1: Dripping water, his island and boat.
Eonwe Valar: The parts they're obviously going to have are the Battle of Five Armies and Smaug attacking Laketown.
Eonwe Valar: The Arkenstone would be nice to have featured in the movie.
VardaValar1: They have to have the Arkenstone. That's Bilbo's secret weapon.
VardaValar1: The eagles will be prominent.
Eonwe Valar: Goblin singing has to be there too :}
Eonwe Valar: Fifteen birds in five fir-trees :}
VardaValar1: The battle in the trees, and the fire and warg riders, aye.
AriehnV: and the song in the cave dont forget that
VardaValar1: That should be a major scene.
AriehnV: .when they carried the dwarves down
VardaValar1: I wonder if they will have much singing or leave that to the older animated Hobbit movie?
VardaValar1: What kind of atmosphere should the movie have, or should it shift?
Eonwe Valar: Where singing was in the books, it would be approrpaite for the movie to have it.
Eonwe Valar: *appropriate
VardaValar1: Del Toro tends to have very serious stuff, not much on humor. He's the director far as I know.
Eonwe Valar: Just because their singing doesn't mean it's all light and happy.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: *they're
luthienathariel: I have seen that movie by him "El labyrinto de la fauna"
luthienathariel: it was amazing.
VardaValar1: Pan's Labyrinth, aye. I have a copy of that.
VardaValar1: He also did the latest Hellboy, that had Elves.
VardaValar1: Very strong ecology theme in it.
AriehnV: i would let the atmosphere shift in a film i think with epic scenes
ArPharazonV: allright, we're leaving Illidan for tuesday, have no fr-tanks... also reporting that Shattrath is a warzone if I ever saw one, all these zombies...
ArPharazonV: should be in meeting in full in a few minutes
VardaValar1: o my! Thanks for the warning, Phar!
VardaValar1: My precious mana loom!
VardaValar1: Can it be reached?
VardaValar1: Arien, I agree with shifting the atmosphere. Tolkien seemed to do that himself.
VardaValar1: Gandalf changes his behavior according to what company he keeps. His way of speaking especially. How impressive he allows himself to be.
AriehnV: yu[p and even daunting he can appear and behave#
VardaValar1: True
AriehnV: i think of the conversation with Bilbo before he leaves in LotR
AriehnV: is there anything in the Hobbit like that?
VardaValar1: Gandalf shifts through the Hobbit according to whom he is speaking with.
Eonwe Valar: Gandalf is also dealing with the White Council throughout the Hobbit. It's possible they may choose to show some clips of that throughout.
VardaValar1: There are also events that take Gandalf away during the Hobbit, that will be addressed more in the second movie.
Eonwe Valar: Though it's not technically in the Hobbit,.. or at least make some sort of visual reference to it.
Eonwe Valar: So to tie the two together, we may get glimpses of the White Council in the first.
VardaValar1: That is probably going to be in the second movie.
VardaValar1: Please remember, folks, that our Tolkien Site is used as a reference for many people, including those working in movies.
VardaValar1: Costumers, prop people, special effects, storyboards, concept art, actors, etc may use us if we have our stuff up.
VardaValar1: We must be sure to show where our info comes from in the books to keep it authoritative and help them find things.
Eonwe Valar: So we need to get working on those articles then? :}
VardaValar1: Yes. : )
VardaValar1: They need them asap.
VardaValar1: The articles don't have to be long.
AriehnV: all right i think it might be an idea to say who is writing what i think#
Eonwe Valar: Just what info we can find and provide citations for.
AriehnV: so we dont get doubles
VardaValar1: The articles help find things about something that are scattered through the book(s) and difficult to find while working on a piece of sculpture or other.
VardaValar1: It's ok to have doubles. They often catch things the other doesn't, or provide a different way of saying it that makes better sense to different people.
VardaValar1: But I will be glad to post on the News or Articles page or both if anyone is planning on an article.
VardaValar1: Be sure to let me know.
AriehnV: thinking about the goblins ..
VardaValar1: The information can be broken up into many smaller articles. Links will take care of a lot of things.
VardaValar1: The goblins takes in a huge amount of territory.
luthienathariel: like suv's
VardaValar1: You could pick on their gear, where they live, the Goblin King.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: The events, their speech.
VardaValar1: Those can all be separate articles linked into a simpler overview article.
VardaValar1: Then a researcher can just look at what he really needs.
AriehnV: right i ll have a think about it and let u know in either an email or next week sometime .. maybe i can catch ye in Lotro
VardaValar1: Info on Beorn is scattered all across the book. A mess to look up for working folk. They can miss something easily. Scholars are needed for bringing it in one spot.
VardaValar1: Great, Arien!
ArPharazonV: ok, back to meeting in full now
VardaValar1: Anyone else have an interest?
VardaValar1: Hi Phar.
ArPharazonV: we're talking The Hobbit articles?
VardaValar1: Yes
VardaValar1: The upcoming movie could use them as references.
VardaValar1: They need to be carefully marked about where in the books the info is coming from.
VardaValar1: Short is good as well as long.
VardaValar1: Overviews for linking other articles are useful.
ArPharazonV: if I can push myself to read that book again in a time where I'm 4 books away from finishing Discworld and have a chemistry exam coming up...
ArPharazonV: I'll consider making one
VardaValar1: If you plan to write an article, you might mention it to me in an email.
VardaValar1: Don't have to read the book.
ArPharazonV: oh, believe me, I do, it's been way too long
VardaValar1: Pick a particular thing in it that you'd like to see done well in the movie and dig that out.
VardaValar1: Ok, whatever works for you folks. : )
ArPharazonV: thing with some books is that you neve rknow whether you have *everything* about a topic you choose without reading the entire thing
VardaValar1: Deep reading with notes, scanning with notes, picking through already well known stuff.
VardaValar1: Right.
VardaValar1: We also can pull in references from all the other books where relevant.
VardaValar1: The Hobbit was like the tip of the iceberg, one thing that makes reading it after the others so interesting.
ArPharazonV: also, though I'm horribly bad at it, I'm thinking of dabbling into the art of drawing... I have a particular picture already in my head
VardaValar1: That would be fine. Concept art is very useful.
ArPharazonV: but I have no idea how I would go about coloring the thing, so if I have it, could I shove it off to one of you to color it ;-)
ArPharazonV: ?
luthienathariel: sure I can do that
ArPharazonV: allright
VardaValar1: Concept art does not have to be colored at all. It can be a black and white sketch.
VardaValar1: I would be happy to post collaborations as well. :-)
ArPharazonV: this wasn't about the Hobbit, though... another of many I have in my head
luthienathariel: sure, but its more colourful in colour
VardaValar1: Just be sure to tell me who drew and who was colorist, if more touch-ups were added.
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Color really helps
VardaValar1: Hey, we have an extensive site. Care to mention what the idea is?
VardaValar1: I can cross up the same picture in different caves, saying what part was done by whom.
ArPharazonV: luthien, morgoth, beren... disguises, dancing, falling asleep.. that general situation
ArPharazonV: but it's probably been done a million times
VardaValar1: yes, but it's different every time. :-)
ArPharazonV: true, true
VardaValar1: Every person has a different picture in his head when he reads it, and it's fun to share those.
VardaValar1: ok, so we have a possible goblin article coming for the Hobbit. A possible Beren, Luthien, Morgoth image for the Sil. Anything else in mind?
ArPharazonV: I also have another one of Fingolfin and his host standing on the shores of Valinor, with the glow of the burning ships in the far distance.. but that one has way less details yet in my mind
ArPharazonV: for a start, I cannot draw fire if my life depended on it ;-)
VardaValar1: That can be an added effect done by Luthien-(TV). ;-)
ArPharazonV: haha
VardaValar1: Fire in that direction!
ArPharazonV: oh, so much stuff in my head, I still have an Umbar-article going as well
ArPharazonV: I just have to get the details right and put it down on paper
ArPharazonV: but I'm a notorious procrastinator
VardaValar1: Ok, how about an article on the Carrock or something short for the Hobbit? : )
ArPharazonV: that's possible
ArPharazonV: though I'm not promising anything
ArPharazonV: the Valar forbid I would promise anything.... ;-)
VardaValar1: Sure, just tossing out ideas. Something short is good.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Ok, guess that's all we're going to get done tonight.
VardaValar1: Thank you all for coming!

metarus208 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: Hail
ArPharazonV: welcome!
metarus208: finally....
VardaValar1: Good to see you, Barahir!
Eonwe Valar: Heya Barahir :}
metarus208: yes ... its nice to be back ...sorry I been gone so long ....
VardaValar1: We were just closing. Now is a great time to say hello and chat in general.
VardaValar1: You've been very busy!
metarus208: oh you're closing too bad ... couldn't wake up ...
VardaValar1: We meet every Sunday. You can catch us another time too.
VardaValar1: What time is it for you?
metarus208: 4.20 a.m ....
VardaValar1: ouch
ArPharazonV: speaking of time, when does the US change the clock?
metarus208: sry if my typing is a bit slow ...
VardaValar1: np
metarus208: cool ....
ArPharazonV: 4:20... let's see... middle asia somewhere?
metarus208: India ... in the beautiful city of Chennai ....
ArPharazonV: ah :-)
ArPharazonV: well, I had the general area correct, anyway
metarus208: don't let anyone tell you Mumbai or Delhi is more beautiful ...
VardaValar1: Nov 2 is the end of daylight savings time in the USA.
ArPharazonV: which is.. next week?
metarus208: well doesn't middle asia refer to Kazakhsthan or something like that ?
ArPharazonV: good, only one week discrepancy then
ArPharazonV: I meant in timezones, metarus, so India falls under mid :-)
VardaValar1: We have people from all over in this room. : )
ArPharazonV: "horizontally" speaking
metarus208: whoa .. you guys are typing so fast ...
VardaValar1: Texas here, CDT.
Eonwe Valar: The Valar Guild does that to a person, Barahir :}
VardaValar1: Fast typing is a survival trait for us.
Eonwe Valar: Just being here will probably raise your WPM :}
AriehnV: ouch aiya Barahir
VardaValar1: Aye! :-)
ArPharazonV: Barahir! I was wondering... and now I realise it was mentioned a few minutes back
metarus208: What's WPM ?
ArPharazonV: that, and I had a typing course about 10 years... has it been that many.... ago
VardaValar1: Words per minute.
ArPharazonV: words per minute
Eonwe Valar: Words per minute :}
Eonwe Valar: What they said :}
VardaValar1: I win. ;-)
VardaValar1: Note, included capitol and period!
Eonwe Valar: :}
metarus208: great .... Varda wins olympic gold ..
ArPharazonV: well, my typing is lagging because I have bittorrentn going
VardaValar1: *chuckles*
ArPharazonV: usually takes about 3-5 seconds to show up
ArPharazonV: so I pressed enter before you did, in this case :-)
Eonwe Valar: For including capitalization and punctuation, Varda wins an internet :}
VardaValar1: We were discussing that the upcoming Hobbit movie will need articles for reference from us.
ArPharazonV: true!
metarus208: so what happened in the meeting today ?
VardaValar1: Yay!
VardaValar1: I even answered the question ahead of time.
VardaValar1: Retro speed!
Eonwe Valar: :}
metarus208: cool ... they finished shooting that movie ...
ArPharazonV: now that is some fast typing inded
ArPharazonV: indeed
VardaValar1: The Hobbit animated movie is done, but now they are working on a live one, LotR style.
metarus208: cool ... who's directing ...?
VardaValar1: Then they will have another movie for the time between the Hobbit and LotR.
VardaValar1: Del Toro.
metarus208: never heard of him
VardaValar1: Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh are associated.
metarus208: oh ...
VardaValar1: Pan's Labyrinth, Hellboy 2
VardaValar1: Bunch of others.
VardaValar1: Might want to look him up on the internet.
metarus208: what would the movie between Hobbit and LotR be about ...?
VardaValar1: Gandalf had to leave the party to help the White Council against Dol Guldur.
VardaValar1: The Necromancer, aka Sauron, was driven out of Mirkwood.
metarus208: near Mirkwood right?
VardaValar1: Dol Guldur is in Mirkwood, aye.
ArPharazonV: the fall of Moria, I assume, will be included as well
ArPharazonV: including the death of Balin
VardaValar1: That is one reason a Mirkwood elf was probably chosen for the Fellowship. Plus a lack of dependence on a Ring of Power.
metarus208: nice .. i would love to see that Balrog again ...
VardaValar1: We are speculating, but that sounds likely.
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure if the Balrog has any part in that... wasn't it just Orcs?
VardaValar1: No details on the secone one have been released.
VardaValar1: Too deep they dug and woke the nameless fear.
metarus208: Durin's Bane ... {hush}
ArPharazonV: yes, but when was that?
ArPharazonV: right, Durin's Bane.. that was in Durin's time
ArPharazonV: not Balin's time
metarus208: actually refers to Durin V
VardaValar1: They had cave trolls too. And the balrog was definitely awake.
ArPharazonV: which still wasn't Balin's time :-)
metarus208: his son was Balin
ArPharazonV: was he now? my dwarf lineage knowledge is a bit shaky these days..
ArPharazonV: might play *a* role then but I thought it was mostly Orcish invasions that brought an end to Balin's reign
VardaValar1: Anyway, a lot of stuff happened, enough to make a movie or several. :-)
metarus208: mine too ... it just kinda popped into my head ... gotta check when daylight comes back again ..
VardaValar1: We should probably look up just what all happened in that timeline and mention it.
VardaValar1: Everyone like to say what time it is where you are?
ArPharazonV: Gollum's capture!
VardaValar1: 6:04pm
ArPharazonV: 4 minutes past midnight
metarus208: 4.34 p.m
VardaValar1: Eonwe is the same as my time.
ArPharazonV: what, half an hour difference? how does that work?
metarus208: 4.34 am....sry
ArPharazonV: I thought all timezones went by the hour
VardaValar1: That is strange.
metarus208: India is 5.30 ahead of GMT, since we are a subcontinent and all..
ArPharazonV: ahh
VardaValar1: Amazing you managed to figure out what time to come at all! Congratulations.
VardaValar1: We also were considering doing some concept art.
metarus208: thanks ... but it was simple time arithmetic ...
VardaValar1: We need more of that. : )
metarus208: I kept the alarm at 3.30 but I couldn't wake up till four ... and I didn't know how to log on to the chatroon ... I was blundering around ...
VardaValar1: Elatan used to keep clocks up for us, since we're from all over the world. Helped with reference.
metarus208: wait phone call ... in the dead of night ?
VardaValar1: ouch
metarus208: ooohh ... calling to tell to be ready by 5.30 ...
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, afk for a second.
VardaValar1: Bet he was amazed you were already up. : )
metarus208: Actually today is Diwali, most of the adults in our area are up by 3.30 ...
VardaValar1: You can instant message one of us to invite you to the chat room.
VardaValar1: Sorry for my ignorance. What is Diwali?
metarus208: Diwali to you is the Indian festival of lights ....
VardaValar1: Ohhh, thank you. : )
ArPharazonV: well, no better time for lights than the middle of the night, I suppose?
metarus208: you might hear of it in the news ... they are busting large cracker in Delhi and all such ...
VardaValar1: Aye, it should be in the news. We'll watch for it.
metarus208: technically ... my family don't consider this as dead of night .... they are usually up by now ...
metarus208: all of us College students appreciate Diwali ...
metarus208: cuz it gives four days of holiday in a row ...:-)
VardaValar1: Woohoo!
ArPharazonV: haha
ArPharazonV: students are the same everywhere :-)
VardaValar1: As hard as you work, do you actually relax or just play catch up?
metarus208: i sleep, which all of us are in desparate need off ...
VardaValar1: I believe you. Glad you get to!
VardaValar1: Thank you for sharing your precious sleep time with us! We are honored.
metarus208: it takes 1 1/2 hrs to go from my house to college by bus .... so gotta wake by 5.30 and those assignements keep me up till 1.00 o something ...
VardaValar1: ugh
ArPharazonV: that can't be healthy
metarus208: actually I slept till 9.30 on sunday ... or I wouldn't have been here ....
metarus208: well today's monday .... for me at least ...
VardaValar1: Seems like it would keep your brain from working properly to have that schedule.
metarus208: I yeah but I catch half my sleep ... in the class ...
VardaValar1: lol
metarus208: seriously ... most students head fall down automatically ... you shoul see our classroom during break ...
metarus208: that recess to you ...right ?
VardaValar1: The thunk of heads on desks, the snoring.
ArPharazonV: I fell asleep during the break in college a few times... and would other people wake me up when we started again? nooo
VardaValar1: In grade school, recess is when we go out to play sports.
ArPharazonV: I would startle and wake up and find we've already been going again for 10 minutes
VardaValar1: Study Hall is a period when we don't have a teacher, when they tell announcements, and we catch up on homework.
metarus208: lol .. and once more lol
metarus208: 'afk' is away from Keyboard ? ....
VardaValar1: Right.
AriehnV: yep
VardaValar1: We are happy to explain the shortcut words. Feel free to ask anytime. : )
metarus208: I will ... its been a long time since I went to chatroon ... gotta catch up ...
VardaValar1: They can be very helpful when playing games too.
metarus208: yeah and SMSing ....
VardaValar1: Fast typing helps when monsters are swinging at your party.
metarus208: tha's text messaging to you guys ...
VardaValar1: What is SMS? : )
VardaValar1: Thanks
metarus208: Phar, you are in Holland right?
VardaValar1: (He answers questions ahead of time too.)
ArPharazonV: hmhm
metarus208: yay! , I' psyhic ...
ArPharazonV: I'm in Holland, yes
VardaValar1: hehe
metarus208: or do you guys call it the Netherlands ...
ArPharazonV: we do, actually, but we have 2 provinces called North and South Holland
ArPharazonV: and I happen to live in the second, so technically I'm in Holland too :-)
metarus208: oh!. .. [didn't know that }
AriehnV: (brb in a sec just updated my media player and requires restart)
metarus208: Holland ... where Lorentz hailed from ....
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: even on your day off you get to learn stuff!
VardaValar1: We have several from that area, seems to be a hotbed of Tolkien nuts.
ArPharazonV: Lorentz?
VardaValar1: Used to have a batch of Norwegians in here too.
ArPharazonV: we're more a hotbed of fantasy gaming nuts apparently, we're very present in games like World of Warcraft
metarus208: Hendrik Lorentz, one of the great physicist the world has yet seen .... winner of the second Nobel price for Physics ...
VardaValar1: and Lord of the Rings Online.
ArPharazonV: so it's only natural that some of us find Tolkien too
metarus208: we study a lot about him in shool and college ...
metarus208: oh .. i am so slow its kinda embarassing ...
VardaValar1: Engineering, makes sense.
VardaValar1: You are typing at a normal speed for a chatroom.
metarus208: yes my course is Computer Science and Engineering ...
ArPharazonV: we're just insanely fast :-)
VardaValar1: We may be running several threads at once and typing in side windows. Not all can keep up.
metarus208: course would mean 'major' ...:-)
VardaValar1: Major, no minor?
luthienathariel: yes, Lorentz is from here.
luthienathariel: and so were a lot of others :-)
ArPharazonV: ah, see, Luthien knows him
luthienathariel: van der Waals
VardaValar1: :-)
metarus208: yeah .. and anne frank to.. right?
luthienathariel: that's not a physicist though
metarus208: oh ... i make a lot of typos ...
ArPharazonV: wasn't Anne Frank german originally?
luthienathariel: ;-)
luthienathariel: no
luthienathariel: jewish
ArPharazonV: well, yes
ArPharazonV: but "jewish" was not an actual country-associated nationality back then
VardaValar1: German Jew, I believe?
luthienathariel: er, true
metarus208: yeah but her secret room was in Netherlands ... cuz that' where her father moved his buisness to ...
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
metarus208: howdy ....
AriehnV: aiyata and hantl :-)
AriehnV: hantal even
ArPharazonV: she came from Germany, got famous (or wrote the book that would make her famous) in the Netherlands, and died in... where? not sure
VardaValar1: That was a secret diary, as I recall?
ArPharazonV: in any case, she was not "from" Holland as you claimed :-)
metarus208: we were discussing abt the great people who are from Netherlands ...
ArPharazonV: aye, it was
AriehnV: Who ? Anne frank
ArPharazonV: yes
metarus208: admit defeat ... [bows head]
luthienathariel: ok, we also have Huygens
VardaValar1: No defeat at all. We would not have even had our minds stimulated without you.
ArPharazonV: we had Antony van Leeuwenhoek, who I believe discovered microscopic fauna
VardaValar1: You are making these Netherlanders happy. :-)
metarus208: seriously ... the great wave theory specialist ? ... i thought he was german or something ...
luthienathariel: and Kamerlingh Onnes
ArPharazonV: to most people, "German or something" includes the Dutch ;-)
luthienathariel: lol
metarus208: agreed about Leeuwenhoek, i agree that he wa the one discovered the telescope also ...
VardaValar1: Microscope
metarus208: Onnes .. the guy who tinkere with magnetic fields ...
luthienathariel: made hydrogen liquid
luthienathariel: the lab's here around the corner :-)
AriehnV: aye i had something in my subconcius somewhere .. anne frank died in Bergen-Belsen
ArPharazonV: I think this is starting to go quite over my head
metarus208: {Barahir wonders whether luthien is also Engineering student} ..
VardaValar1: Cool, Luthien!
ArPharazonV: all this information I never had or never bothered to remember...
luthienathariel: no, I did physics for a little while
metarus208: doesn't everyone ...
luthienathariel: no, I don't think so
ArPharazonV: and I'm an Earth Sciences student too.. I should know about these things, you'd think
VardaValar1: Not a Biologist. : )
luthienathariel: maybe a thousand times as many do Communication Sciences (whatever that may be)
metarus208: why .... you don't study Physics and Chemistry ... in secondaary school ?
ArPharazonV: well, yes, we do, but it's never as detailed
VardaValar1: Well yes, and in college, but it's not any great depth.
metarus208: ok ...
metarus208: how did we get to this topic ?
ArPharazonV: famous Dutch people!
VardaValar1: And I graduated in 1976 I think. Been a few years.
metarus208: whoa ... to me ... you are like ancient ...
VardaValar1: You mentioned famous Netherlanders in a room full of them. ;-)
VardaValar1: Varda, older than dirt.
metarus208: who else is a Netherelander ....
ArPharazonV: as old as the stars?
metarus208: tpo ...
VardaValar1: Hey, I made those stars.
metarus208: typo ....
metarus208: got copyright ?
ArPharazonV: Luthien, Fladrif, and myself.. as far as I know *looks around*
VardaValar1: Morgoth invented copyright
metarus208: did he ... I thought it was Manwe
ArPharazonV: I thought it was Feanor :-)
VardaValar1: Arien is in Scotland
VardaValar1: Guess it depends on if you are happy with copyright or not. So aye, Manwe did it. : )
metarus208: yay ....
ArPharazonV: I have this weird view of Scotland... the moment anyone mentions Scotland I get an image of lakes, castles, hills, kilts, haggis, bagpipes and cabertoss
VardaValar1: Feanor actually dug into it, but the Valar recognized his right.
metarus208: so do I ...
VardaValar1: and ship building. : )
metarus208: I imagine all the great lochs ...
ArPharazonV: with Nessie in one of them
VardaValar1: and oil rigs in the ocean
metarus208: aren't oil rigs way off in the north sea ...
ArPharazonV: still, I guess the same thing goes for the Netherlands..
VardaValar1: Off Aberdeen, I think
AriehnV: nessie in a ship? haha :d
ArPharazonV: clogs, tulips, windmills, funny hats and rain, rain and more rain
AriehnV: rather under and tossing it over *chortles*
VardaValar1: More like it.
metarus208: oh's its 5.05, grandma already lighting those ceremonial candles ...
VardaValar1: You need to get over there!
metarus208: 5.05 am that is ...
VardaValar1: Maybe we'll catch you on the news. :-)
AriehnV: aye theres oil rigs on the east coast indeed , aberdeen area and further north at Thurso in sutherland
luthienathariel: dont forget chocolate sprinkles
AriehnV: a few on Glasgow area i think
luthienathariel: and good cheese
metarus208: chanceless ... all the international media seems to focus only on those North Indians ... we never get much of hte limelight ...:-(
luthienathariel: (gosh I missed those in Canada)
VardaValar1: Send them a clip or put it on YouTube!
VardaValar1: Really, a shot of your grandma lighting those on YouTube would probably be very interesting.
metarus208: no digi cam ... you don't know how hard i fought for this laptop alone ... consider my major is Computer and all ...
VardaValar1: Maybe in the future. No, I don't. Congratulations!
metarus208: definitely ...
AriehnV: Happy Diwaly , Barahir :-)
metarus208: Diwali ....
AriehnV: or whatever you say
AriehnV: Diwaly
AriehnV: diwali
VardaValar1: I could post a pic of you doing the lights? :-)
metarus208: Hey Arien, you are the first one to actually wish me ...
metarus208: even my father didn't ...
VardaValar1: Happy Diwali, belatedly
AriehnV: as is fit for the sun :-)
VardaValar1: :-)
metarus208: I actually I do the rackers ... its the adults who do the lights ...
metarus208: crackers that is ...
AriehnV: nice :-)
VardaValar1: Good to know. This is something I know nothing about.
metarus208: ooh ... milk man ...
ArPharazonV: Happy Diwali indeed!
VardaValar1: I miss milk men. The milk was so good from the glass bottles.
metarus208: we get it in brass cylinders ...
metarus208: afk ...
VardaValar1: Now our News page mentions Diwali. : )
VardaValar1: Just put it online.
AriehnV: i dont remember that :-) but i remeber going to the village farmer and with a plastic container or a metal one and getting fresh milk from cows
VardaValar1: Brass cylinders. Intriguing.
ArPharazonV: I grew up with milk in a box...
VardaValar1: My husband used to get milk from a bucket under a cantankerous cow.
ArPharazonV: I feel young
AriehnV: you are young :-D what 234?
ArPharazonV: what's cantankerous?
AriehnV: 24 even
ArPharazonV: 23
VardaValar1: Grouchy
ArPharazonV: ah
VardaValar1: 54 here
AriehnV: grumpy ... the scotch term is cranky
VardaValar1: That is also a term used here. : )
luthienathariel: cantankerous, what a wonderful word
metarus208: yay ... ia m the youngest .... as it says in the 'Daning Queen'... i am only seventeen ,,,
VardaValar1: Fun to say.
VardaValar1: Yay for seventeen!
metarus208: {waves hand to recieve applause]
AriehnV: *applause*]
VardaValar1: My youngest child is 27.
VardaValar1: *claps*
metarus208: its still Sunday ... for you guys ... so technically its not Diwali ...
luthienathariel: no, its monday.
VardaValar1: But on the News, I wrote it for Monday. ;-)
metarus208: "Dancin Queen" i mean .. tpo ...
AriehnV: how many of your family have you got in the valar guild, Varda? ( am dead curious by natjure ;-) , but thats the sun for u hehe )
VardaValar1: Monday for some of these folk for whom it's well after midnight.
ArPharazonV: 1: we don't celebrate Diwali, 2: it's gone past midnight for the Netherlands too
VardaValar1: Arien, all of them.
VardaValar1: That youngest one is Bilbo-(V). :-)
metarus208: whoa I hear crackers ... busting ... gotta go to the Deity room ...
VardaValar1: Run! Sounds fun!
luthienathariel: oh you dont mean "the Daning Queen", that well known grunge hit from the Offsetter Brabbling Gang?
AriehnV: oki enjoy Barahir
VardaValar1: *chortle*
VardaValar1: Fangorn-(Valar) is my husband. Meriadoc-(V) is my brother.
luthienathariel: and Melian is my mother.
VardaValar1: My oldest child is a daughter, Eowyn-(V). Next is son Sauron-(Valar), then Bilbo-(V).
metarus208: did my small bit with the lights in the Deity room ...
VardaValar1: That was fast.
VardaValar1: Get a photo? :-) Or is that a bad thing?
metarus208: it was small and all .. all I had to do was hold the camphor in hand and light it to deity's pic ...
metarus208: no digi cam ...
VardaValar1: Don't need a cam
metarus208: how else ...
ArPharazonV: which deity would this be, out of curiosity?
VardaValar1: Scan a regular photo, use a mobile phone
metarus208: Krishnan ..... which incidentally is my name and all
VardaValar1: Another reason you needed to light that one!
metarus208: only my sis has web cam .... and she's don't need to get up till 7 or something consider she's the elder and all ...
metarus208: is it me or am I beginning to type like Rudyard Kipling ?
VardaValar1: Thanks. I added the link to the Diwali word on the News page.
metarus208: substitute 'Phone cam' for web cam
VardaValar1: I like Kipling's writing, so feel free. : )
Aerandir V has left the room.
metarus208: never actually seen the web page before ....
AriehnV: i just googled ift
VardaValar1: Singer and tailor am I / Double the joys that I know / Proud of my lilt to the sky / Proud of the house that I sew.
VardaValar1: aye, I should have. : ) Didn't think of it.
metarus208: don't believe the stuff about Rama mentioned there ... its the studd abt Krishnan thats true ... considering its me and all ...
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: The wiki page, you mean? You didn't need it. We did, being uneddicated heathens and all. ;-)
VardaValar1: j/k
metarus208: lol ...
AriehnV: aye its all scientists and research Barahir all heathens ;-)
VardaValar1: Celebrating the victory of good over evil within yourself sounds good to me.
metarus208: don't ustand ...
Eonwe Valar: Back.
metarus208: what ariehn said ...
VardaValar1: Welcome back. Finished writing?
metarus208: welcome back ...
Eonwe Valar: No, still working on part 4.
AriehnV: i just meant , Metarus, that they are all non - indian or non - hindu writer that found information in so called objective backgrounds
Eonwe Valar: And thanks :}
metarus208: oh ...
AriehnV: so it might probably and likely not be the same what people think or believe
metarus208: call me Barahir ... metarus is just a name I chose due to my eternal obsession with the second Punic War ...
ArPharazonV: Hannibal Barca?
AriehnV: all right Barahir :-)
metarus208: yes ... you know ... he's the greatest general ever .... i got obssessed over him in the summer holiday ...
ArPharazonV: that's all I know of the Punic Wars... I was interested in them for a while, but the one fantastic website I found on him has disappeared...
metarus208: I researched on all nearby libraries .... spent days understanding what happened at Cannae ...
VardaValar1: Phar, a lot of sites disappeared when they switched from free to charging. I had to move my Folklore & Mythology site for that reason.
metarus208: too bad ...
metarus208: oh ... gotta go in fifteen ...
VardaValar1: ok, thanks for dropping in!
ArPharazonV: oh, I found something
metarus208: I don't hear the fat lady singing yet ....
ArPharazonV: "Important note: This site is a reproduction of the site which inexplicably went offline in 2006.
ArPharazonV: It was by far the most comprehensive and thorough site one could find on the subject and it's loss I am sure was felt by many."
VardaValar1: ah ha! Well done
VardaValar1: Says not found on my Firefox.
metarus208: ditto ...
ArPharazonV: the barca.fsnet site was the site which I was talking about and it was indeed by far the most comprehensive site about hannibal and Carthage and the punic wars I've ever seen
VardaValar1: o of course
VardaValar1: Show the new site.
metarus208: morning coffee ... already ...
ArPharazonV: and yes, the site disappeared, but apparently this is a reproduction, and can be found at..
VardaValar1: Thank you
VardaValar1: *passes coffee around*
metarus208: Deland est Carthago ...
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar!
fladrifv: Aiya and namarie!
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: namarie Flad!
VardaValar1: Namarie, Fladrif
ArPharazonV: it would seem the site is not fully operational yet, a lot of stuff has yet to be added in
ArPharazonV: but it's a start, and if they ever completely reproduce the old one...
ArPharazonV: it'll be all you ever want to know :-)
metarus208: the second punic war is quite analogous to World War II ...
AriehnV: namarie , dear Ent
VardaValar1: That site is enormous.
VardaValar1: I hope they managed to save it all.
ArPharazonV: *nod* so do I
metarus208: what else ...
Eonwe Valar: Take care Fladrif :}
fladrifv: *waves and roots himself into the earth*
metarus208: farewell ...
VardaValar1: *Starlight reflects from Fladrif's leaves.*
ArPharazonV: is also a good one, seems to have saved a lot of old and disappeared websites over the years
ArPharazonV: and I'm pleased to see this was among them
VardaValar1: Good to know!
AriehnV: *and a last curious sun ray brushes the top of fladrifs branches*
VardaValar1: This is a wonderful project, saving informational websites.
metarus208: barca means 'thunderbolt' ...
VardaValar1: So many have to disappear when students leave a college, or money is a problem.
ArPharazonV: it is, I wonder how they manage to afford it
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: Thanks to a generous grant from the Mellon Foundation, Internet Archive completed a 2 billion page web crawl in 2007
VardaValar1: Copy pasted
VardaValar1: This is the largest\ web crawl attempted by Internet Archive. The project was designed to take a global snapshot of the Web.
ArPharazonV: I've located several old websites this way, but to find the hannibal site this way... strange that it hadn't occurred to me before
VardaValar1: Special thanks to the memory institutions who contributed URLs to the crawl. The crawl began with 18,000 websites from over 60 countries\ .
metarus208: yeww ... they are applying some herbal paste to my hair ...
ArPharazonV: and you're still allowed to type this in and chat to us despite your ceremonic participation? :-)
VardaValar1: Hello to whomever is working on our friend's hair!
ArPharazonV: haha
VardaValar1: Don't see your site in the Wayback Machine? Submit an URL for inclusion.
VardaValar1: We will archive the site you have submitted and you will be able to view it in the wayback machine within 6 months.
metarus208: I made it clear to my parents that my participation would only consists of blowing up crackers ...
VardaValar1: Please note: sites that are database driven, generate dynamic web pages or have robots.txt exclusions can not be archived.
VardaValar1: And having your hair done? : )
VardaValar1: Herbal paste might be good for it.
VardaValar1: Yikes, a lot of new sites are not going to be archivable.
metarus208: hair done ... that's a joke ... I Never have my hair done or get it fixed ... I always like it black, dull and messy ...
VardaValar1: Black is great, but dull?
VardaValar1: Put that shine on it! ;-)
metarus208: yeww....
metarus208: that's what girls do .....
VardaValar1: heeh - we girls like shiny hair, makes you look healthy.
luthienathariel: yay, and girls *know*
AriehnV: hehea and ithink boys like it too :-)
metarus208: not me ...
AriehnV: well boys like it on girls i mean
ArPharazonV: I don't like my hair shiny
VardaValar1: and girls like shiny hair on boys too.
metarus208: that's their problem ....:-)
ArPharazonV: makes it look fatty
VardaValar1: It looks healthy. Like you won't die in a few minutes.
luthienathariel: fatty?
ArPharazonV: greasy, is the proper word I think
VardaValar1: And maybe we won't have to worry about lice from you!
luthienathariel: what's that?
ArPharazonV: "vettig", Luthien :-)
VardaValar1: Greasy is the American word, aye.
metarus208: my sis says for the past few months I always look i would die in a few mins ....
VardaValar1: Like the movie, "Grease".
luthienathariel: oh that fatty
ArPharazonV: *nod* not Fatty Bolger :-)
luthienathariel: I was thinking the wrong way, like "als een fatje"
metarus208: dutch?
luthienathariel: yes
luthienathariel: like a ... wimp?
ArPharazonV: that's "watje" Luthien, not "fatje" ;-)
ArPharazonV: unless you have some accent or dialect I'm not aware about
luthienathariel: no, that does exist ..
luthienathariel: no
luthienathariel: just bear with me
metarus208: everyone's exchanging Diwlai wishes over the phone ...
VardaValar1: No wimpiness intended in the idea of greased hair. More like Elvis Presley.
VardaValar1: Go ahead and phone!
VardaValar1: Fascinating to hear what's going on.
metarus208: ... the irony is that they haven't said anything to me sitting a few paces away ...
luthienathariel: ha!
ArPharazonV: anyway, I meant greasy
luthienathariel: lol
VardaValar1: Have you said anything to them yet? : )
ArPharazonV: and my hair's way too greasy on its own, and quite uncombable
VardaValar1: Greasy is icky though. :-)
ArPharazonV: so I'm not very proud of it
ArPharazonV: so I don't want it shiny
luthienathariel: uncombombulative
metarus208: no ... they are too busy running around ... by custom .... my elders have to greet me ...
ArPharazonV: ..
metarus208: here ... custom is stronger than law ...
VardaValar1: Eye contact could help, or not looking so hard at the comp?
VardaValar1: Custom is a form of law. Aye. :-)
VardaValar1: Smile at them.
metarus208: ah my ear hurts ...
VardaValar1: Try the other ear?
metarus208: from the crackers on the street I mean....
metarus208: phoned ma cousin ... his father says he is refusing to wake up ....
metarus208: why should I be the only one forced to get up before six ... why???
ArPharazonV: life's not fair?
ArPharazonV: anyway, me and my greasy hair are going to bed
AriehnV: hopefully you will get a chance to lie down later again
ArPharazonV: I'll save and send the transcript
metarus208: irony .... I'm just waking up ...
ArPharazonV: *grin* well I need to get up again in 8 hours so it's a good time
VardaValar1: So you can hang out with us and teach us!
VardaValar1: Sleep fast, Netherlanders!
metarus208: teach what ?
AriehnV: sleep tight Ar Pharazon
ArPharazonV: and I'm sure I'll read the rest of this when Varda puts up the transcript!
VardaValar1: About what happens on Diwali.
metarus208: goodnite, Phar ...
VardaValar1: Doubt if there will be much more. I need to go handle supper.
metarus208: actually I'm kinda ignorant myself ...
VardaValar1: We'd need another transcripter.
VardaValar1: See if your folks will teach you stuff while they are still handy to ask.
ArPharazonV: I'm an atheist, but I do find some religious ceremonies quite fascinating and I hope to read more about it in the transcript :-)
ArPharazonV: by the way, Eonwe is still in the room
AriehnV: i wont be on much longer as i am getting sonmewhat bleary eayed ;-)
ArPharazonV: try poking him to save
VardaValar1: Same here, Arien.
VardaValar1: ok :-)
luthienathariel: want a transcript?
ArPharazonV: or Luthien!
VardaValar1: Anyone willing is welcome.
luthienathariel: this thing makes them automatically
VardaValar1: Pharazon one day discovered how much I needed the help.
metarus208: technically .... I am an atheist too ... but in south India.. folk like us don' live too long if we say stuff like that ...
VardaValar1: Maybe you are actually agnostic.
metarus208: what's agnostic, I am not ...
VardaValar1: That is someone who is still considering the issue.
ArPharazonV: I like recording all relevant conversations so I can possible fall back on them later
ArPharazonV: small step to simply email them later
VardaValar1: Atheist says definitely there is no God of any sort.
metarus208: To me God means luck, cuz what luck giveth, luck taketh away ...
VardaValar1: Agnostic, still looking at the data and thinking about it.
ArPharazonV: I'm an atheist who, like every true scientist, thinks... I'm 99% sure there's no God of any sort, but you never know anything for sure in this world
ArPharazonV: so maybe I'm small part agnostic
VardaValar1: One can make one's own luck, or a lot of it.
Eonwe Valar: There are plenty of true scientists past, present, and future who belive in a God
VardaValar1: Could be, Phar. Your mind is still open.
metarus208: "Luck is a horse to ride like any other" - Matrim Cauthon
VardaValar1: What Eonwe said.
ArPharazonV: the "never know anything for sure" part was the bit I referred to with the true scientist, Eonwe
VardaValar1: I know a fair number of scientists. :-)
ArPharazonV: I misphrased
luthienathariel: This is very similar to the suggestion put forward by the Quirmian philosopher Ventre, who said, "Possibly the gods exist, and possibly they do not.
luthienathariel: So why not believe in them in any case? If it's all true you'll go to a lovely place when you die, and if it isn't then you've lost nothing, right?"
luthienathariel: When he died he woke up in a circle of gods holding nasty-looking sticks and one of them said, "We're going to show you what we think of Mr Clever Dick in these parts..."
luthienathariel: -- (Terry Pratchett, Hogfather)
ArPharazonV: I'm 99% sure there's no God of any sort but like every true scientist should think... you never know anything foro sure
VardaValar1: oy
ArPharazonV: haha, I remember that, Luthien
ArPharazonV: but the thing is
metarus208: Phar is scientise ?
metarus208: typo ...
ArPharazonV: I'm studying to be one, in any case, and I strive to live and think as one
VardaValar1: Scientists may also think they've proven his existence. They are different people too, with different views.
ArPharazonV: anyway, as for why not believe in him anyway...
metarus208: now , how did we get to this topic ?
VardaValar1: Belief is trust. That is obviously not trust.
VardaValar1: Scroll back. ;-)
ArPharazonV: religion tends to bind one to rules and authorities that might be outdated and have no practical function in an atheistic world, and may even limit freedom of life in many ways
metarus208: never ... scrll back .. always scrll fwd ..- a variation of joan of Arc's saying ...
VardaValar1: Oh now that is different. A religious group is not the same thing.
VardaValar1: hehe - here, learn to scroll back.
AriehnV: *chortles* Barahir .. discussions in here run like this , you start at some point and land somewhere completely else but its coherent and linked throughj the conversation grin
AriehnV: Tolkien or not ^^
ArPharazonV: true, but try to find a religion that doesn't give any regulation whatsoever?
metarus208: what Phar says describe half of my life ...
VardaValar1: What Arien said.
ArPharazonV: in any case
VardaValar1: All groups give regulation.
ArPharazonV: the fact is, for me... I would like to believe, I'm sure people find great comfort and routine in their life through religion, and believing that there is more than this lifetime
ArPharazonV: but the fact is... I simply don't
VardaValar1: For instance, in here, you are chosen for courtesy and tolerance and Tolkien knowledge.
Eonwe Valar: Atheism can be just as limiting.
ArPharazonV: I can't with a straight face say that I believe in a supernatural entity
metarus208: whoa this is getting totally srious ... wonder why I am still not summoned ...
VardaValar1: Atheism is a religion too.
ArPharazonV: maybe I wish I could, but I don't believe
ArPharazonV: and it's as simple as that
VardaValar1: You are still a youngster collecting data.
ArPharazonV: I don't buy it
VardaValar1: You have not closed yourself off to all possibilities.
metarus208: that's a variation of what my dad says ...
AriehnV: you dont buy beliefs .. they have to sink in through heart and soul
ArPharazonV: I don't believe in prophets, in scriptures, in design, in regulations dating a few hundred to thousand years back
AriehnV: and if they do .. they usually stay
metarus208: very serious ....
luthienathariel: very true, Arien :-)
VardaValar1: Phar, gravity is here to stay pretty much.
Eonwe Valar: And yet, you believe that something happend 4 billion years ago and still goes on today? :}
VardaValar1: It's a regulation.
ArPharazonV: I simply do not believe, and that's why I'm an atheist with perhaps a smidgen of agnosticism because I'm trying to convince myself that you can't know anything for sure
metarus208: oh oh ....
ArPharazonV: and I do mean human-made regulations for that matter
metarus208: why so serious ...?
VardaValar1: And we love you, Phar. :-)
AriehnV: that we do , golden one
ArPharazonV: but many people disagree with me, or have been raised to disagree with me
ArPharazonV: and I respect that
ArPharazonV: because as I said, I can't be sure
ArPharazonV: and until I die, I never will be
ArPharazonV: but I don't believe, and it ends there
VardaValar1: You'll know for sure then. Keep your options open. ;-)
metarus208: i am going to keep silent till we get down to earth ...
AriehnV: Well people i am off for tonight :-) be good and sleep well
ArPharazonV: and who's to say that following some religion or other won't get you thrown into hell by some other religion?
VardaValar1: lol - I grew up with that one.
VardaValar1: Opposite religions on the parent's sides.
ArPharazonV: exactly, Varda
VardaValar1: Religion is not the same thing.
metarus208: ooh.. really ...
VardaValar1: Atheism is a religion.
Eonwe Valar: "Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." :}
VardaValar1: It's a belief set.
metarus208: bad bold button ... bad ...
VardaValar1: hehe - poor Barahir.
ArPharazonV: so the "believing doesn't make you lose anything" does not work in fact
VardaValar1: It's not belief, it's a joke.
ArPharazonV: and in that case, atheism is indeed just as much a religion as anything else
ArPharazonV: so why choose a non-atheistic belief over atheism just for the reward?
Eonwe Valar: The question is, do you understand what you believe.
Eonwe Valar: The generic"You" not the sepcific "You"
Eonwe Valar: *specific
VardaValar1: You're not ready to choose anything til you have enough data.
ArPharazonV: I understand what I believe, and what I believe is that there is no God and the universe runs on physics and when we die, there's nothing else waiting for us....
Eonwe Valar: I don't have qualms with anyone believing what they believe, but they should understand it.
ArPharazonV: and that is the only way I can lead my life and still be me
metarus208: guys this is getting out of hand ...
ArPharazonV: and therewith I'll stop my rant
AriehnV: i have to agree with Phara though .. entirely sure we cant be until we die , but there is something in me that has a certain expectation
VardaValar1: But no one understands all of physics. :-)
ArPharazonV: and save the transcript at last..
Eonwe Valar: Physics doesn't negate the possibility of a diety though :}
ArPharazonV: it doesn't, but it doesn't imply a diety either
metarus208: you're freaking me out ...
VardaValar1: Nahh, we've done this before, Barahir.
VardaValar1: We are close friends.
metarus208: ... and i am supposed to be the younger one ...
ArPharazonV: a diety is just a redundant factor for me... and Occam's Razor states... ;-)
Eonwe Valar: We are able to have these discussions without resorting to insults and name-calling. It's one of the things I like about the Valar Guild honestly.
metarus208: to cut out principle of the economy you cannot observe ...
VardaValar1: Phar is a good guy. Don't let this worry you.
ArPharazonV: there's nothing in this world I feel a diety must have been around for
ArPharazonV: so why believe in one?
VardaValar1: "I feel"
ArPharazonV: I believe, I interpret, I *think*
VardaValar1: Because you find data that makes you see another way.
ArPharazonV: perhaps
VardaValar1: If you don't have such data, you have no reason to change.
metarus208: my friends and I never even discuss anything even remotely like this ...
ArPharazonV: but I can't imagine finding data that would give me the need to conceive a God in my world-vision
Eonwe Valar: I would say the beginning at least had to have a diety. there has to be a point in which matter came into being, and if you think something brought itself into being, how is that different from a diety?
ArPharazonV: I would just find data that would require more scientific research
VardaValar1: Or you might see something that blows your mind. Give it time. And don't worry about picking a "religion".
ArPharazonV: interesting point, Eonwe, but if time and space were created at the origin of the universe there would be no need fo ranything to be "before"
ArPharazonV: and for practical purposes, the universe has been here "for all time" ;-)
Eonwe Valar: The question is still that ther ewas an "origin.":
VardaValar1: That is the bouncing universe hypothesis.
ArPharazonV: but the fact is that if everything has a cause, yes... where does it start?
metarus208: omg .. this is way out of my league ...
Eonwe Valar: If it was "always here" does that not also imply deification? :}
ArPharazonV: that is one of the more interesting questions
VardaValar1: Not out of your league. Just enjoy it. :-)
ArPharazonV: does it, really?
ArPharazonV: I don't see how
ArPharazonV: but anyway, I really need to go to sleep
Eonwe Valar: Aw, it was getting fun, but ok :}
ArPharazonV (7:44:32 PM): saved   [Note: timestamp is CDT. EDT is one hour later.]
Eonwe Valar (7:44:32 PM): I'm sure we'll stir this pot again :}
metarus208 (7:44:36 PM): it was getting scary ...
VardaValar1 (7:44:37 PM): Yes, you do. And we'll be happy to see you again next week. Always fun.
Eonwe Valar (7:44:46 PM): Philosophy is fun :}
VardaValar1 (7:44:51 PM): Aye. :-)
ArPharazonV (7:44:55 PM): and this is the way I think, and I do not wish to insult or disrespect anyone
VardaValar1 (7:45:00 PM): You have not.
metarus208 (7:45:06 PM): ditto ...
Eonwe Valar (7:45:12 PM): As I quoted above:
VardaValar1 (7:45:21 PM): We are happy that you are willing to share your thoughts.
Eonwe Valar (7:45:24 PM): "Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." :}
ArPharazonV (7:45:29 PM): :)
Eonwe Valar (7:45:38 PM): If we cannot explain what we beleive to others, do we really understand it enough to believe it?
ArPharazonV (7:45:41 PM): oh, I know, Varda, but I can get carried away, I am aware
VardaValar1 (7:45:41 PM): We sharpen each other's ability to think.
ArPharazonV (7:45:45 PM): I'm glad you're bearing with me
metarus208 (7:45:52 PM): who knew that Phar was such a philospher ...
VardaValar1 (7:46:02 PM): Sometime I may tell you some of my data, but now is not the time. :-)
metarus208 (7:46:04 PM): the palto of Valarguild ...
metarus208 (7:46:14 PM): sry .. plato of valarguild ...
VardaValar1 (7:46:35 PM): I am fond of Socrates.
luthienathariel (7:46:43 PM): so am I
AriehnV (7:46:45 PM): hehe Platodin ... would be a new alt for valrguild with DK :-D
VardaValar1 (7:46:49 PM): hehe
luthienathariel (7:46:53 PM): dialogues are wonderful to read
metarus208 (7:47:03 PM): too bad he was poisoned ...
VardaValar1 (7:47:19 PM): He agreed to take the poison, to show he would not break the law.
Eonwe Valar (7:47:33 PM): Plato was an interesting guy. Believed in a higher level than the physical as well.
Eonwe Valar (7:47:42 PM): As I recall, he called it somethign like "The Forms"
VardaValar1 (7:47:46 PM): The fault lay not in him, but the system. Thus he proved his point.
luthienathariel (7:47:50 PM): yes
Eonwe Valar (7:47:56 PM): So what we have as chairs only represents what it is to be a chair.
luthienathariel (7:47:58 PM): did any of you read the Symposion?
metarus208 (7:48:02 PM): lets not start something serious again ...
VardaValar1 (7:48:23 PM): We need Meriadoc in here. I don't think he missed reading a single Philosopher. :-)
ArPharazonV (7:48:25 PM): I don't know much about philosophy but I seem to have created my own, anyway
ArPharazonV (7:48:35 PM): transcript is sent
ArPharazonV (7:48:37 PM): Namarie all!
VardaValar1 (7:48:44 PM): There is philosophy, and there is Philosophy.
metarus208 (7:48:44 PM): I have been summoned ... to take bath and mess up the street ....
VardaValar1 (7:48:48 PM): Thank you, Phar!
VardaValar1 (7:48:49 PM): lol
AriehnV (7:48:50 PM): Namarie , Ar Platozon .. er |Pharazon
Eonwe Valar (7:48:53 PM): have fun Barahir :}
VardaValar1 (7:48:57 PM): That sounds backwards. :-)
Eonwe Valar (7:49:01 PM): Sleep well Phar :}
VardaValar1 (7:49:02 PM): Have a great time!
AriehnV (7:49:19 PM): Namarie , Barahir :-)
ArPharazonV (7:49:38 PM) has left the room.
metarus208 (7:49:39 PM): Namarie to one and alll .... "What cannot be changed ,must be endure" - Al' Lan  Mandragon
VardaValar1 (7:49:57 PM): I could play with that, but your point is good. :-)
VardaValar1 (7:50:03 PM): Farewell and thanks for coming!
AriehnV (7:50:18 PM): nice to meet you Barahir :-)
metarus208 (7:50:18 PM): like Ashley Tisdale said ...
Eonwe Valar (7:50:22 PM): Wheel of Time :}
metarus208 (7:50:30 PM): 'Toodles'
AriehnV (7:51:29 PM): Fladrif is travelling back home tomorrow
metarus208 (7:51:34 PM) has left the room.
AriehnV (7:52:00 PM): Namarie to you all :-)
AriehnV (7:52:08 PM) has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (7:52:11 PM): Take care Arien :}
VardaValar1 (7:57:34 PM): Farewell belatedly