Valar Guild

November 23, 2008 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon-(V) and Varda-(Valar)

Attending: (8)
    Ancbeard, AriehnV, ArPharazonV, arwenv1, fladrifv, luthienathariel, pallandovalar, VardaValar1 (presiding).

    New story
    WoW: playing in the new Wrath of the Lich King expansion.
    LotRO: playing in the new Mines of Moria expansion
    Speaking with stones.
    Tolkien continued, discussing dwarves.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
arwenv1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Hail Arwen!
arwenv1: :-)
pallandovalar has entered the room.
oessala has entered the room.
orodrethV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Pallando :-)
VardaValar1: I do have the time right?
ArPharazonV: yep, I think so
ArPharazonV: I'm in WoW right now, waiting until it's my turn to kill the Gearmaster (man, it's busy in Northrend)
VardaValar1: Everywhere. Even I was on today. :-)

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Eonwe is with family during the meeting time, but sent us a WoW note for the News.
VardaValar1: Thanksgiving is coming in the US next week, could make some odd changes in who shows up when and where.
VardaValar1: Do you folks have any membership news?
VardaValar1: We know Phar is in WoW. Where are you, Arwen?
ArPharazonV: I have internet again! Obviously.
luthienathariel has entered the room.
VardaValar1: There is the super news. :-) Congrats Phar!
VardaValar1: Aiya Luthien :-)
ArPharazonV: man dropped by, fixed the router settings, apparently not exactly what Fladrif told me but I probably misinformed him too
luthienathariel: Suilad, Bruces & Sheila's :-)
VardaValar1: Now there's a dialect mix.
VardaValar1: But it was the router settings and they seem ok now.
ArPharazonV: yep, pretty much
VardaValar1: I guess Arwen is afk. Pallando, what are you up to? : )
ArPharazonV: the router-firewall is gone completely now (I can re-enable it should I want to) so hosting any sort of game should not be much of a problem, and my torrent-downloads are even faster, nearly 10 times as fast as they were a few months ago....
VardaValar1: We generallly are interrupting something.
VardaValar1: Pallando is away, ok.
ArPharazonV: all the ports are now open *by default* this can't be very safe, but... I have other software to take care of that
VardaValar1: Wow, nice speed!
VardaValar1: It's funny how the safety measures work so well against games.
VardaValar1: Luthien, what did we interrupt you doing? : )
VardaValar1: and another afk
VardaValar1: Arien just came on
VardaValar1: We have hope that Fangorn will be home for Thanksgiving, and Meriadoc will be coming to our house too.

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: A new story is online for us, what I was doing when meeting time rolled up.
VardaValar1: "The Legend of the Grey Riders" by Jay of Lasgalen
VardaValar1: An amusing short story, I think you'll get a kick out of.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: It's not all linked into the story section yet, it's so fresh.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien
AriehnV: aiya ll :-)
VardaValar1: Here's the new story link for you, Arien:
ArPharazonV: aiya :-)

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Did anyone play anything besides WoW or LotRO? : )
VardaValar1: On to World of WarCraft:
VardaValar1: General:
VardaValar1: Today is the 4th Anniversary of WoW.
ArPharazonV: well
ArPharazonV: sorry, missed that bit
ArPharazonV: seeing as I had no internet for about 12 days
ArPharazonV: I played a *lot* of not-WoW games :-)
VardaValar1: Everyone who can needs to sign on today to get an achievement and check the mail for their new pet.
VardaValar1: Backing up for Phar. : )
VardaValar1: Go ahead, good buddy.
AriehnV: and its a very cute one too :-)
ArPharazonV: well, to start, I finally got around to completing the single-player campaign for TA: Kingdoms expansion
ArPharazonV: The Iron Plague
ArPharazonV: I was in lvl 23 when I left off a while ago and now I finished all up to the last level, 25
ArPharazonV: got kinda hard, but made it
ArPharazonV: definitely harder than the original
ArPharazonV: I also got out the adventure games Curse of Monkey Island and Escape from Monkey Island, aka parts 3 and 4 of the Monkey Island series
ArPharazonV: and went through all the difficult puzzles without a walkthrough for once, relying only on the game's hints, logic, and my own memory :-)
AriehnV: grats :-)
ArPharazonV: also in these 2 weeks I've finished Rayman 2 and got through 2/3rds of Rayman 3
ArPharazonV: so I've been rather busy :-)
Ancbeard has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: and then Thursday I got my internet back, and went back to WoW... *shrug* it keeps pulling me back in ;-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Ancalagon :-)
Ancbeard: hi
AriehnV: hehe welcome Anacaloa
AriehnV: Ancalagon , long time no see :-)
ArPharazonV: end of report
ArPharazonV: I have WoW news too but I'll wait for that until the wow section
VardaValar1: WoW, the return.
VardaValar1: We were just telling about the 4th anniversary celebration on WoW.
VardaValar1: Phar, might as well continue with your WoW news now.
VardaValar1: He suddenly went quiet, heh.
ArPharazonV: well, I got back to WoW, and started Wrath... I wanted to make a Death Knight, and for that I had no choice but to delete the one character who was still lvl 2, who I had a double class of, and who had absolutely no loot and was back in the starting zone
ArPharazonV: to act as a reagentbank
ArPharazonV: which meant the unfortunate death of my Nightelf priest Alcarondas, who was also my representative in the Valar guild branch
AriehnV: :-(
VardaValar1: Your rep was only a bank, not a gigantic loss.
VardaValar1: So out of 10 slots, you can't find one that could be put in Valar? ouch
ArPharazonV: and forth stepped my Death Knight Callyria... she's currently in The High Guard, but I am planning on putting one of my alts in the Valarguild, if it's for any reason useful
ArPharazonV: I'm not completely sure which one it'll be, though
ArPharazonV: will probably be one who's based more directly on a Tolkien-name, which narrows it down to my hunter and warrior, respectively called Caliona and Caldarion
AriehnV: any one u choose will be welcome :-)
ArPharazonV: it is kinda tricky though, since I have a lot of mail going back and forth and that makes it easier to have them in the same guild for auto-naming etc
ArPharazonV: and when I level them, having them in a bit more populated guild (though my own isn't one of the top-guilds either anymore, there's still always a few members around who can help)
ArPharazonV: will be quite helpful
ArPharazonV: in the end, I might simply decide to switch the two of them around, keeping out the one I'm currently levelling
AriehnV: true enough
ArPharazonV: though this might cause logistical problems for the Valarguild leadership, I don't play my alts that regularly anyway, so we'll see if it works
VardaValar1: ouch again. But it's something, thanks. :-)
ArPharazonV: that ends my report, I'm sure I could tell a lot more stories about my WoW progress but it's not very Valar-relevant
VardaValar1: Phar, did you see any other Valarites in the little time you've been back online?
ArPharazonV: not to my recollection
ArPharazonV: I did see Flad in MSN though, he said he'd come back to Wrath at about January but I also read that he said it in the meeting, so....
ArPharazonV: anyway, let me log out of WoW
ArPharazonV: and yes, I've been reading the transcripts since my absence ;-)
VardaValar1: Arien, how about you?
VardaValar1: Good to hear. : )
AriehnV: i was on only on Monday afternoon Argent dawn but in this time i managed to raise the issing funds to buy a one slot guild bank for the Valarguild :-)
ArPharazonV: though I think I was still halfway through last week's one... *goes off to read*
VardaValar1: Congrats Arien! That's major!
VardaValar1: Still working on that for Uldaman, making some progress.
ArPharazonV: ah, yes, I got your mail about that [AD, bank]
AriehnV: i was questing in northrend for that with my druid , who is now back to feral after the talent reimbursement last week
AriehnV: I gave every member the right to withdraw 15 items and 5 gold per day ... saying which there are only five gold in it atm hehe , but it might help
ArPharazonV: coincidentally, I opened up a third tab for my own guild... I came back Thursday to find our guildbank completely filled with glyphs and other stuff left by "Unknown" so probably someone who deleted their bankalt, and I decided it was time to spend another 500g on the bank
ArPharazonV: hehe
AriehnV: for additionl bank space and shifitng stuff around
AriehnV: let me know if you need more ok?
AriehnV: i ll try to play at least ten gold into it per week now i ve started it so you might see me at times :-)
ArPharazonV: yeah, sure, but I doubt I'll be using it that much, I have a busy alt-mailing system and I often supply my alts with everything they need and can't quickly get on their own
ArPharazonV: which includes alts in other guilds :-)
ArPharazonV: we're a close team ;-)
AriehnV: my deathknight is Deatharen by the way
AriehnV: so if you want to add her
AriehnV: Deatharien
ArPharazonV: just make sure you're in the Valar-channel and I'll find you :-)
AriehnV: i am :-) all right#
AriehnV: else i have been questing a bit in Zeth gor iwth my Paladin with Helm on Auchindoun
AriehnV: ./
AriehnV: where he helped me to kill the wolfmaster
ArPharazonV: is that... Ashenvale? *thinks*
AriehnV: hehe Hellfire Peninsula
ArPharazonV: ahh
AriehnV: A bit before that he was assisting Justicia, said Paladin to acquire Linkens Bumerang
AriehnV: thats all as far as Valarites are concerned
AriehnV: :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you.
VardaValar1: Lothar has been busy with Valarites.
VardaValar1: Especially today. Both Lothar and Uldaman server folk have been coming in for the 4th Anniversary.
VardaValar1: I think maybe more than you have in Europe.
VardaValar1: On to LotRO:
VardaValar1: In Lord of the Rings Online:
VardaValar1: The Mines of Moria expansion went live.
VardaValar1: We're seeing people who've been waiting for this to return, very busy.
VardaValar1: The poor server has been overloaded and crashed a few times, but seems ok pretty much now.
AriehnV: meh that was a major major patch to download on Wednesday , took a few hours
VardaValar1: New areas: Eregion, Moria, and Lothlorien.
VardaValar1: New player types: Rune-keeper and Warden.
VardaValar1: We have about an equal number of both of the new player types piling up in the guild. Lot of fun.
VardaValar1: New crafting level and things to hunt for them and recipes and special crafting halls.
VardaValar1: Much more, but the WoWer's in here have their eyes glazed over already. : )

VardaValar1: On to Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Does anyone have a subject or continuation of a subject?
VardaValar1: Who all is here? Please type Aye
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: Aye
VardaValar1: That's two eyes to see with anyway.
VardaValar1: I was intrigued by the idea of stones with memories that could be sensed.
VardaValar1: Legolas mentions doing this in Eregion, as if it is normal.
luthienathariel: present
luthienathariel: oh Aye
VardaValar1: Who all is able to do this?
VardaValar1: hiya
VardaValar1: He's from Mirkwood, a Sindarin living among Silvans.
VardaValar1: Close to the earth.
ArPharazonV: I guess most Elves would be able to do this
luthienathariel: yes
VardaValar1: Gimli does not mention hearing stones, and taps on the wall of Moria while Legolas leans against it and listens.
ArPharazonV: perhaps not the unenlightened Avari, but Sindar in any case, and probably the Noldor too as they were connected to stone even more?
VardaValar1: And dwarves even more so.
ArPharazonV: though there's something odd about cutting up a thing with memories, but it might help them with their skill
VardaValar1: Perhaps those who work it don't want to hear it protest?
ArPharazonV: *grin* it does seem a bit.. cruel
VardaValar1: This might explain why Gimli does not hear stone, though he loves to work it and admire it.
VardaValar1: The Noldor would possibly have a similar attitude.
AriehnV: oopsy aye :-) just a sec
ArPharazonV: I'd bet that if some Elves can, the Ainur wouldn't have much trouble with it either
VardaValar1: Silvans took Sindarins for their leaders to help their own education. So those Silvans might have a level up on other Avari types.
VardaValar1: Ainur should be able to, especially Aule and his folk.
VardaValar1: Except those that went over to Morgoth and tortured the land.
VardaValar1: I wonder if they could hear the stone cry out, or stopped hearing it due to lack of friendliness with it.
ArPharazonV: they wouldn't be too fond of the place groaning and protesting during their stay in Angband I guess
VardaValar1: Get rackety.
VardaValar1: So Sindarins, at least the ones who went back to nature, could hear stone.
VardaValar1: Maybe Avari, close to nature and not making a lot of buildings.
ArPharazonV: yep
VardaValar1: Perhaps even the Sindarins who went back to nature learned to hear from the Silvans?
ArPharazonV: could be
ArPharazonV: though the Sindar never did stray far from nature, Thingol also lived in a forest
VardaValar1: Can't tell if it went from Sindarins to Silvans, or vice versa, or both had it all the time.
ArPharazonV: so "went back" might not be the right words
VardaValar1: That's true.
VardaValar1: Teleri stayed by the seashore, staying close to nature.
ArPharazonV: they'd be more connected to the sea than to the land, though
VardaValar1: So possibly any elf still close to nature?
ArPharazonV: possibly
VardaValar1: Also, as son of a king, Legolas may have been trained specially. Doesn't say.
VardaValar1: So if a person is an elf, still close to nature and not working it a lot, and trained to listen, he may hear stones?
ArPharazonV: he does seem to see it as normal, though, so it might have been rather common practice, perhaps at Eregion
AriehnV: Could all Elves in general hear the voice to the water or were susceptible to any messages that it might bear? we get to know that the spirit of Ulmas was present in all the waters of Middlearth , at least in Beleriand
VardaValar1: Ulmo whispered to all who would listen. Getting anyone to listen, tough.
AriehnV: and all seemsed to have a longing for the sea and the west in their heart, even if they never saw it
VardaValar1: Noldor felt the call of the sea all the time like a low level thing.
VardaValar1: Sindar were free of the call until they came in contact, then the call was nigh overwhelming.
luthienathariel: yes
VardaValar1: Silvans, it doesn't say, but when Galadriel left, most of her silvan folk eventually followed her over sea.
luthienathariel: remember the warning of Galadriel to LEgolas
VardaValar1: Aye
AriehnV: *nod* which became truth as he approached Lossarnach with Aragorn and his greay company
VardaValar1: Right. He thought the warning was of his death and went anyway.
ArPharazonV: little did he know...
VardaValar1: In a way it was true. Just a bit more of an elvish thing. : )
ArPharazonV: *nod*
AriehnV: anyway , its a distracting thought from the topic but it came to my mind and is somehow related with *feeling memories*
ArPharazonV: if he died he'd ended up there anyway ;-)
VardaValar1: Aye, but Mandos' halls rather than out in the open of Valinor.
luthienathariel: for a time only though ...
VardaValar1: Aye, fortunately. : )
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: He was well-adjusted, ready for death, would not have been in long probably.
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif : )
fladrifv: Aiya
AriehnV: aiya :-)
fladrifv: working on my pre-amp, almost done
VardaValar1: We were just talking about who all might have the ability to feel the speech of stones. : )
ArPharazonV: aiya Flad :-)
VardaValar1: We're about done, I think?
AriehnV: or earth or sea
VardaValar1: No others are mentioned as using words that I know of other than stone.
fladrifv: atleast not sauron himself
VardaValar1: The sea did call, the waters carried the words of Ulmo.
VardaValar1: And Ulmo listened with the water.
VardaValar1: Between Manwe's sight, eagles doing recon, Varda's listening, and Ulmo's waters, the intel had to be pretty good. : )
VardaValar1: Eagles and other birds too.
VardaValar1: I've had several mention that they need to wrap up early.
VardaValar1: Does anyone have any more to add?
AriehnV: nah cant think of anything
ArPharazonV: well
ArPharazonV: why did the stones have memories in the first place?
ArPharazonV: could they possess some basic form of a fea?
VardaValar1: Why does anything? : )
VardaValar1: A computer has a memory of a sort. But does it have a fea?
ArPharazonV: you think the memories were artificially stored and accessed like a database? :-)
VardaValar1: Morgoth's Ring, his influence was in the earth itself.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: In that way, yes.
ArPharazonV: no mind of their own, no memory-selection? just programmed to tell the story to those who would listen?
VardaValar1: But the particular stones that remembered being built up into great structures and missed the elves, that's different.
ArPharazonV: like the Cubes in Discworld, if you know the reference? :-)
VardaValar1: I liked Discworld. : )
luthienathariel: lol
ArPharazonV: yes, Varda, and how did they form the memories? :-)
VardaValar1: The stones may have picked up a little sentience from Aule's care for their building and the addition of power (unintentional) by Morgoth.
ArPharazonV: could be
VardaValar1: you asked, so I finished the thought up. : )
ArPharazonV: but sentience in Middle-Earth has almost always been traced down to either a sort of fea or a direct influence from a Vala/Maia (like Ulmo in the waters)
VardaValar1: The earth was built by all the Valar together with great love, tended by elves and dwarves with love, could have picked up something in the process.
ArPharazonV: perhaps
AriehnV: stones definitely have a presence of their own if you are sensitive enough to feel it ( not everywhere .. anymore ... but there are certain places and buildings and structures)
VardaValar1: Maybe the Noldor, in the act of working the stones, woke them to words as the elves did trees.
AriehnV: so it wouldnt surprise me if they d have memories
VardaValar1: The Noldor might not have the sensitivity to hear, but their love would be felt by the stone they worked.
VardaValar1: Thus the stones missed them when the elves departed.
AriehnV: i remember the passage in Lotr
AriehnV: when they passed through Eregion
AriehnV: the company walked from Imladris to Moria over the mountains
AriehnV: well through the mountains
AriehnV: Aragorn mentioned that the land was a bit more wholesome than the surrounding moors since it still remembered the presence of the Elves that dwelt there once
ArPharazonV: the land remembered...
AriehnV: i think it was Legolas who mentioned something like that he could hear the stones * beautiful they shaped us and worked us iwth loving skill * , sorry this is quite free since icant remember the exact quote
ArPharazonV: it would be either a fea or an influence of the Ainur
AriehnV: *but they left long ago ... they are gone *
AriehnV: something like that
AriehnV: you know tha passage i mean?
VardaValar1: Sure, trying to locate it. It's what I've been talking about.
ArPharazonV: it rings a bell, but it's an awfully long time ago
ArPharazonV: I'm 1 and a half book away from catching up on Discworld though, so I'll probably return to Lotr once again :-)
ArPharazonV: I myself have changed in character in the years since I've read it last, I'm wondering how it'll affect me this time
AriehnV: I found it its in the chapter *The ring goes south* in book one
AriehnV: not too long after the company leaves rivendell
VardaValar1: found it too, you were first. : )
AriehnV: it starts with Gandalf saying "We have reached the borders of the country that Men called Hollin , and Elves lived here in happier days"
AriehnV: a bit about the landscape and the naming of the mountains
VardaValar1: Gimli is actually poetic and intense here.
VardaValar1: Legolas comments that the elves were strange to the silvan folk. Means the Noldor.
AriehnV: then gandalf mentions * Much evil must befall a country before it wholly forggets the Elves if once they dwelt there *
AriehnV: yep :-)
VardaValar1: The trees and grass don't remember the elves, only the stones lament them.
VardaValar1: "deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone."
VardaValar1: Many of them had gone over the sea.
VardaValar1: "They sought the Havens long ago."
VardaValar1: The stones seemed to have liked being worked "fair they wrought us".
luthienathariel: yes
VardaValar1: *bangs gavel*

VardaValar1: Free chat!
AriehnV: :-) thanks Varda
ArPharazonV: if the stones liked being worked, maybe the Noldor could communicate with them too?
ArPharazonV: *lets topic die* allright, free chat
VardaValar1: No other mention is made of it, unfortunately.
VardaValar1: Letting us see an elf travel with mortals allows the writer a chance to show how alien they are.
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: and how alien the others are to them, no doubt
VardaValar1: Why would an elf comment in the Sil that they sleep with their eyes open when they all know that? :-)
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: because other races might not know it?
ArPharazonV: there were some strangely uneducated hobbits in the party, Legolas might have felt need to explain some things
VardaValar1: The Sil is mostly elves and Dunedain who were familiar with them, so there is no chance to comment.
ArPharazonV: oh, in the Sil
ArPharazonV: nevermind me
VardaValar1: No mention is made in other books of walking on snow being common.
ArPharazonV: where was it mentioned?
VardaValar1: I'm just saying that having an elf travel with the non-elves in the LotR let the writer mention some of the unusual things.
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: Round ears might have been less common in the party, so it's not a topic. They all know their ear shapes.
ArPharazonV: hmm, hobbit ears were pointed too, right?
ArPharazonV: what about dwarves?
VardaValar1: Aye on hobbits.
VardaValar1: It never says on dwarves that I can find. I need to re-read and see if Gimli ever makes the insult about pointy-eared elves.
VardaValar1: Finding out something isn't there is harder than finding something that is there.
ArPharazonV: it sounds awfully movie-ish :-)
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: and ears were such a small thing, just a little tip.
VardaValar1: JRRT was offended that some artists made elf ears like bunny ears, just wanted them slightly pointed.
VardaValar1: (WoW springs to mind)
ArPharazonV: what, like W... right
VardaValar1: hehe
AriehnV: pointed ears dwarves though would seem fairly other worldly to me .. certianly not for the type as we know them
VardaValar1: I've seen pictures of dwarves with pointed ears more often than not, if shown at all.
AriehnV: weird
VardaValar1: Dwarves were otherworldly. : )
ArPharazonV: the Norse-mythology-dwarves.... did they have pointed ears, popularly?
VardaValar1: In art, seems like I remember pointed ears on dwarves. Usually covered.
VardaValar1: That is something that might be fun to surf. : )
VardaValar1: Not something normally mentioned in the old literature, but artists had to put something down even in the old days.
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiyata, ent. : )
VardaValar1: So Fladrif, did dwarves have pointed ears? : )
VardaValar1: The Hobbit movie makers will have to decide on that, since it's a visual medium.
ArPharazonV: haven't we ever seen Gimli's ears?
ArPharazonV: I know he took his helmet off on a number of occasions
VardaValar1: Hair tended to cover them.
VardaValar1: Sneaky out.
ArPharazonV: what's to prevent the same in The Hobbit? :-)
VardaValar1: Now we have to reread the books and rewatch the movies. : )
VardaValar1: 13 dwarf main characters? : ) Plus armies.
ArPharazonV: armies tend to wear helmets!
VardaValar1: Rounded ears would be less expensive, make them different from hobbits and elves.
VardaValar1: Right, I agree.
VardaValar1: We could see how the older Norse dwarves were generally depicted in old art.
VardaValar1: Nibelungen, maybe.
AriehnV: Tolkien's dwarves See Dwarf (Middle-earth) Traditionally, the plural of dwarf was "dwarfs", especially when referring to actual humans with dwarfism, but ever since J. R. R. Tolkien used dwarves in his fantasy novel The Hobbit, the subsequent The Lord of the Rings (often published in three volumes), and the posthumously published The Silmarillion, the plural forms "dwarfs" has been replaced by "dwarves". Tolkien, who was fond of low philological jests, also suggested two other plural forms, dwarrows and dwerrows;
AriehnV: but he never used them in his writings, apart from the name 'Dwarrowdelf', the Western name for Khazad-dûm or Moria, which was, inside his fiction, a calque of the Westron name Phurunargian. His Dwarves' name for themselves was Khazâd, singular probably Khuzd. 'Dwarrows' is the Middle English plural of 'Dwerg' or 'Dwerf' ('Dwarf'), and derives from the Old English 'Dweorgas', plural of 'Dweorh' or 'Dweorg'.
AriehnV: The Dwarves were created by Aulë, one of the Valar, when he grew impatient waiting for the coming of Children of Ilúvatar. Ilúvatar gave them life after rebuking Aulë for what he had done and seeing that he was both humble and repentant. Dwarves in Tolkien are long-lived, living nearly four times the age of man (about 250 years), but are not prolific breeders, having children rarely and spaced far apart, and having few women among them. Dwarvish children are cherished by their parents, and are defended at all costs from their traditional enemies, such as Orcs. A longstanding enmity between normal Dwarves and Elves is also a staple of the racial conception.

ArPharazonV: low philological jests, eh...
ArPharazonV: wow, how'd you get all that in one message?
AriehnV: quote is from Wiki pedia article on Dwarfs
AriehnV: i copied pasted only a few sentences at a time
ArPharazonV: yeah, but still, your last one seemed a lot longer than AIM will let me
AriehnV: its quite interesting to read actually the original concept in ancient mythologie
VardaValar1: Our folk pretty much seem to have quit writing articles. Wonder if they all went over to Wiki.
AriehnV: there is also a picture
VardaValar1: Aye, that was an exceptionally long AIM message. New version of AIM?
AriehnV: a fairly modern one and as we know them i think, and shows round ears
VardaValar1: 12th century, human height, round ears.
AriehnV: Version Aim
VardaValar1: Just looks like a barbarian version of the human killing him.
ArPharazonV: the one from John Bauer doesn't show ears
AriehnV: aye
VardaValar1: aye, hair covered them.
AriehnV: i wonder whether it would serve them as bed cover ..? ouch bloody bidge to a wagon heading west ..
AriehnV: the sun wagon i mean :-)
AriehnV: /
VardaValar1: "modern depiction" shows round ears.
AriehnV: aye thats what i meant
AriehnV: but i am afraid i have to move upstairs now .. earlies tomorrow so have fun and be good :-)
AriehnV: Namarie for now
ArPharazonV: Namarie sunshine!
VardaValar1: Namarie! and thanks!
AriehnV: :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: The one of the Riftwar Saga actually is a description of an earth elemental.
VardaValar1: sorry not Riftwar
VardaValar1: Artemis Fowl
VardaValar1: Riftwar has dwarves similar to humans
luthienathariel: Ach crivens, the ol' pointy ears again ... greetings all, I am off to bed. Working in the morning ...
luthienathariel: Suilannon le!
VardaValar1: Mara mesta
ArPharazonV: namarie Luthien
luthienathariel: namarie Ar :-)
luthienathariel: a Fladrif
luthienathariel: a Elbereth!
luthienathariel has left the room.
VardaValar1: Why would dwarves speak with a Scottish accent?
ArPharazonV: perhaps it's because we have no idea what a viking accent would sound like :-)
VardaValar1: Like Finnish
VardaValar1: or maybe even Nordic
ArPharazonV: now can you imagine Gimli with an accent like that?
VardaValar1: The Swiss chef on Sesame Street!
ArPharazonV: bork bork bork
VardaValar1: Irmo's accent is quiet pleasant, actually.
VardaValar1: LotRO has in-fellowship speech, and he preferred that to typing.
VardaValar1: ok, go play or go sleep or do homework like Pallando. See you folks around!
VardaValar1: Phar, will you be sending a transcript?
ArPharazonV: I will
VardaValar1: Thank you!
VardaValar1: Namarie for now. : )
ArPharazonV: but keep one of your own too, of course :-)
VardaValar1: I am
VardaValar1: It has all those timestamps.
VardaValar1: There's a mandatory upgrade to AIM, hoping it will let me fix that.
VardaValar1: I have it checked to leave them off, gives them anyway.
ArPharazonV: I saw that one, didn't find anything about ears though :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: says early ones were humanlike. Had pale skin with black hair and beard, thus "dark
VardaValar1: "dark".
VardaValar1: Pale almost like a corpse, stayed underground, sunlight killed them.
VardaValar1: Another spot suggests dark refers to living in darkness.
VardaValar1: Runes and poetry associated with them.
VardaValar1: Mastery of runes is for knowlege and magical power.
Ancbeard has left the room.
VardaValar1: ok, all the links are in for the story.
VardaValar1: Namarie for now. :-)
ArPharazonV: namarie
arwenv1 has left the room.
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending