Valar Guild

November 16, 2008 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 

Attending: (10)
    Ancbeard, AriehnV/Ariehn, arwenv1, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, luthienathariel, Menelvagor Valar, Pallando Valar, Valandile Valar, VardaValar1 (presiding)

    Compare Sauron and Eonwe's roles.

(Times in CST. Add one hour for EST.)
Ancbeard (4:05:33 PM) has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar (4:05:33 PM) has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:05:33 PM) has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar (4:05:37 PM): Heya Varda
VardaValar1 (4:05:48 PM): Aiya Eonwe and Ancalagon!
Eonwe Valar (4:05:55 PM): Was just about to pop into LotRO and amke sure anyone who wanted to come to the meeting knew it was about to begin.
VardaValar1 (4:05:58 PM): Sorry I was a bit late
VardaValar1 (4:06:04 PM): Good idea
Eonwe Valar (4:06:21 PM): NP. Meeting channel seemed a bit empty anyway :}
VardaValar1 (4:06:28 PM): Was finishing clean up after a birthday party, missed the time.
VardaValar1 (4:06:42 PM): Anc, are you in LotRO?
Eonwe Valar (4:06:56 PM): Happy Birthday :}
VardaValar1 (4:08:14 PM): WoW has a number of our people hooked, with the Expansion.
Ancbeard (4:08:29 PM): yes i am, varda
VardaValar1 (4:08:52 PM): Heya. Looked like you crashed yesterday, was about to invite you to Urugarth
VardaValar1 (4:09:14 PM): We had plenty anyway, but always like to have you. And you seem to know where you're going!
Ancbeard (4:09:20 PM): eh, i got pulled away suddenly. niecephews over :-)
VardaValar1 (4:09:26 PM): Ah cool :-)
VardaValar1 (4:09:39 PM): Have to trap them into LotRO... ;-)
Ancbeard (4:09:49 PM): theyre a bit young yet
VardaValar1 (4:09:55 PM): We'll wait. : )
Ancbeard (4:10:10 PM): speaking of lotro though, i bit the bullet and paid for a bit better shipping
VardaValar1 (4:10:15 PM): hehe
Ancbeard (4:10:30 PM): now instead of shipping on the 24th, the mom will arrive on the 20th :-) what a difference
VardaValar1 (4:10:41 PM): That is a difference!
VardaValar1 (4:10:54 PM): Mine has shipped already, hoping it arrives in good time.
Ancbeard (4:11:08 PM): hey varda ....... dont suppose you do any skiing?
Ancbeard (4:11:12 PM): nice
Ancbeard (4:11:22 PM): where did you preorder yours from?
VardaValar1 (4:11:28 PM): GameStop
VardaValar1 (4:11:46 PM): Nowhere to ski around here, unless I get a boat. :-)
VardaValar1 (4:11:58 PM): Do you?
Ancbeard (4:12:01 PM): yeah i didnt figure so :-)
Ancbeard (4:12:04 PM): no...
VardaValar1 (4:12:21 PM): Inner-tubing down a snow slope count? : )
Ancbeard (4:12:29 PM): im shopping for some over-the-glasses goggles for ..... winter bicycling :-)
Ancbeard (4:12:38 PM): but i know nothing about them hehe
VardaValar1 (4:12:45 PM): We have about three days of winter.
VardaValar1 (4:13:38 PM): Anyone else in LotRO?
Ancbeard (4:13:40 PM): length of our winter depends. seems to have started early this year :-)
Ancbeard (4:13:42 PM): yes lots
VardaValar1 (4:13:52 PM): *urge to run to LotRO*
Ancbeard (4:14:23 PM): i probably wont play much til thursday hehe
VardaValar1 (4:15:08 PM): I was running lower characters taking advantage of the extra experience.
VardaValar1 (4:15:22 PM): We still need some deeds on our high levels. Some need books.
VardaValar1 (4:15:29 PM): CD, Uru, Annuminas
VardaValar1 (4:15:46 PM): and I still need one single button to complete that set of deeds
VardaValar1 (4:15:51 PM): One of Bilbo's
Ancbeard (4:16:12 PM): i have a map bookmarked that shows the location of all the static buttons :-)
VardaValar1 (4:16:15 PM): We could use your expertise
Ancbeard (4:16:52 PM): i have no idea what to run next so this week my kin mail will be asking for suggestions.
VardaValar1 (4:17:20 PM): Just hang out a while. I've been helping them get together for runs, without even running.
VardaValar1 (4:17:37 PM): Some are working hard on books, some deeds
Ancbeard (4:17:46 PM): hmm ski goggles with a yellow lens for less money or better looking ones for more ....
VardaValar1 (4:18:12 PM): Make sure they work well against snow
VardaValar1 (4:19:51 PM): I doubt if any of the WoW people or LotRO people will want to show up this week much.
VardaValar1 (4:20:06 PM): Ok, Eonwe's back after a valiant effort of recruiting people in here. : )

VardaValar1 (4:20:21 PM): Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1 (4:20:25 PM): Membership news:
VardaValar1 (4:20:41 PM): Fangorn and Varda are back from visiting relatives this week.
VardaValar1 (4:21:02 PM): Elwing is here visiting with us (on WoW with the rest of the family now) for my birthday.
VardaValar1 (4:21:25 PM): We visited with Meriadoc going both ways across Texas, always fun. : )
VardaValar1 (4:21:44 PM): Beleg sent everyone in LotRO a kinmail.
VardaValar1 (4:22:10 PM): He is having difficulties and will be unable to return to LotRO until after Christmas or around the New Year.
VardaValar1 (4:22:27 PM): Any other Membership news?
Ancbeard (4:22:35 PM): we should all pitch in and get him a game card and a mom digital upgrade :-)
VardaValar1 (4:23:07 PM): If money is the problem, I can see doing that. I assumed it was his health. Do you know?
VardaValar1 (4:24:01 PM): I rather hope it's just money. : )
VardaValar1 (4:24:06 PM): Any other membership news?
VardaValar1 (4:24:26 PM): Hi to Eonwe's family. : )

VardaValar1 (4:24:30 PM): Web:
VardaValar1 (4:24:49 PM): I've been away this week and not done much on the website. But did one thing...
VardaValar1 (4:25:15 PM): Luthien requested a way to get a group together to discuss languages, especially Sindarin.
VardaValar1 (4:25:31 PM): I suggested using the Forum, AIM, and mentioning it on the News.
VardaValar1 (4:25:53 PM): She plans to send in a News blurb when she doesn't feel quite so sick and sleepy.
VardaValar1 (4:26:03 PM): Being sick is probably why she's not here today.
VardaValar1 (4:26:30 PM): On the Forum, I set up a new section just for Tolkien. Strange we didn't have one already.
VardaValar1 (4:27:00 PM): Under the section is one for Languages, moved some things over to it that were relevant from the old Tolkien Discussion.
VardaValar1 (4:27:09 PM): Added another section for the Trivia,
VardaValar1 (4:27:14 PM): moved stuff to it,
VardaValar1 (4:27:28 PM): then moved the rest of the Tolkien Discussion into the section.
VardaValar1 (4:27:47 PM): Looking back, the Tolkien Discussion was still under Community, so I deleted it from there.
VardaValar1 (4:27:57 PM): That also deleted it from the area to which it was moved.
VardaValar1 (4:28:14 PM): It had given a warning that a deleted board cannot be brought back.
VardaValar1 (4:28:30 PM): So all those years of discussion are now gone as far as I know.
VardaValar1 (4:29:27 PM): I apologize.
Eonwe Valar (4:29:43 PM): Ouch.
VardaValar1 (4:29:48 PM): We need to get busy discussing and fill it up again.
VardaValar1 (4:30:30 PM): People rarely responded to posting the discussion questions from the meetings. Almost never.
VardaValar1 (4:30:49 PM): Should I start adding them in again or leave them out this time?
VardaValar1 (4:31:29 PM): Maybe I could mention them with a link to the transcripted discussion?
Eonwe Valar (4:31:35 PM): The worst that could happen is no one responds to them.
Eonwe Valar (4:31:48 PM): That would be a good idea too.
melchiahac (4:32:02 PM) has been invited.
Eonwe Valar (4:32:07 PM): Thoughts Ancalagon?
Ancbeard (4:32:28 PM): posting em to the forum sounds good to me
VardaValar1 (4:32:40 PM): Ok, so post them with that link. : )
Eonwe Valar (4:32:56 PM): At least then if no one has anything to add, they can see what's been said.
VardaValar1 (4:32:56 PM): Thank you.
VardaValar1 (4:33:02 PM): Aye, good point.
VardaValar1 (4:33:13 PM): Might stimulate them to add something.
Eonwe Valar (4:33:24 PM): And that link will take them to the meeting minutes, which might just convince them to come to a meeting, hehe :}
VardaValar1 (4:34:10 PM): We can always hope. : )
VardaValar1 (4:34:21 PM): So that is some actual business handled.
VardaValar1 (4:34:32 PM): Ancalagon has a suggestion for helping Beleg out.
Ancbeard (4:35:12 PM): well im at least gonna email him and see if thats something he would want :-)
VardaValar1 (4:35:34 PM): We were considering mailing him a game card.
VardaValar1 (4:35:51 PM): His letter mentions being very busy, so money may not be the problem.
VardaValar1 (4:36:17 PM): Anc, you're assigned to find out what the problem is. I'm willing to help out if I can.
Ancbeard (4:36:30 PM): okie dokie
VardaValar1 (4:38:34 PM): Valandil is messaging : )
valandilevalar (4:38:59 PM) has been invited.
VardaValar1 (4:41:52 PM): Can someone else invite Valandile Valar?
Valandile Valar (4:42:16 PM) has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (4:42:29 PM): You made it! Yay!
Valandile Valar (4:42:43 PM): aiya
VardaValar1 (4:42:45 PM): Aiya
Eonwe Valar (4:42:53 PM): heya Valandil :} Long time no see :}
Valandile Valar (4:43:01 PM): indeed
VardaValar1 (4:43:28 PM): WoW and LotRO expansions seem to have hauled off all of our people from AIM. : )
Valandile Valar (4:44:07 PM): how come ?
VardaValar1 (4:44:11 PM): We had a problem with the Forum, Valandil, in which the Tolkien Discussions were wiped.
VardaValar1 (4:44:18 PM): They are all off gaming. : )
VardaValar1 (4:44:32 PM): A new section has been made and the problem should not re-occur.
Valandile Valar (4:44:32 PM): ah ok
fladrifv (4:44:55 PM) has entered the room.
fladrifv (4:45:04 PM): Aiya
VardaValar1 (4:45:18 PM): Do you have any specific interests in Middle-earth, such as languages, events, characters, articles, stories, humor, art, music, poetry?
VardaValar1 (4:45:21 PM): Aiya Fladrif!
Eonwe Valar (4:45:26 PM): Heya Fladrif :}
Valandile Valar (4:45:34 PM): aiya Fladrif
Valandile Valar (4:45:50 PM): was that question for me Varda ?
VardaValar1 (4:46:05 PM): Especially you, since I'm familiar with the rest of these guys.  : )
Valandile Valar (4:46:22 PM): ah ok
VardaValar1 (4:46:27 PM): Sadly been out of touch with you.
Valandile Valar (4:46:39 PM): well all my characters are based on Tolkien
Valandile Valar (4:47:13 PM): i try to use the languages as much as possible, elvish, but i have also a dwarf
VardaValar1 (4:47:47 PM): Me too. : )
VardaValar1 (4:48:11 PM): Have you looked at the guild's Tolkien Site?
Valandile Valar (4:48:34 PM): yes, for the first time in a long while, i haven t read all yet
VardaValar1 (4:49:03 PM): I don't think anyone expects you to read the whole thing, but some areas might be of the most interest to you.
VardaValar1 (4:49:27 PM): Some prefer articles and others look only at the poetry or only fiction or art.
Valandile Valar (4:49:43 PM): i used your word list to adjust my roleplayhelper
Valandile Valar (4:49:58 PM): but not only that, many more words are used
VardaValar1 (4:50:01 PM): Irmo's word list for Quenya gaming?
VardaValar1 (4:50:39 PM): Or Beren's list maybe?
Valandile Valar (4:50:45 PM): i use quenya and Sindarin
Valandile Valar (4:51:03 PM): i thought it was your list, but i can be mistaken
VardaValar1 (4:51:07 PM): Luthien is trying to start up a group of us to work on Sindarin.
VardaValar1 (4:51:12 PM): What list is it?
VardaValar1 (4:51:21 PM): We have more than one.
VardaValar1 (4:51:33 PM): Even orcish.
Valandile Valar (4:51:34 PM): i have made a list per character
Valandile Valar (4:52:01 PM): so my charanters all have distinctive sentences they use
VardaValar1 (4:52:04 PM): I was considering setting up one for Dwarvish.
VardaValar1 (4:52:12 PM): Always fun.
Valandile Valar (4:52:27 PM): there are not many words there
VardaValar1 (4:52:37 PM): Would you be interested in adding to the Tolkien Site in some section?
VardaValar1 (4:53:01 PM):
Valandile Valar (4:53:27 PM): i will do my best
VardaValar1 (4:53:30 PM): Search Everything doesn't quite search everything, but helps.
VardaValar1 (4:53:53 PM): Is there a section that interests you? Not trying to push you, just see where your interests are.
VardaValar1 (4:54:23 PM): It can wait.
VardaValar1 (4:54:55 PM): Arien is coming online. : )
Valandile Valar (4:55:18 PM): ok
ariehnv (4:55:24 PM) has been invited.
AriehnV (4:55:27 PM) has entered the room.
AriehnV (4:55:37 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (4:55:44 PM): oops
Valandile Valar (4:55:57 PM): i must have frightened her
VardaValar1 (4:56:03 PM): The shock got her.
Valandile Valar (4:56:22 PM): :-)
Valandile Valar (4:56:50 PM): we played together many times, but lately she is moren active on other realms
VardaValar1 (4:57:02 PM): Aye, sadly
AriehnV (4:57:11 PM) has entered the room.
AriehnV (4:57:20 PM): aiya all :-)
AriehnV (4:57:29 PM): am i here now?
Valandile Valar (4:57:33 PM): aiya Ariehn
VardaValar1 (4:57:51 PM): You're here, aye. : )
AriehnV (4:58:01 PM): sorry for the late appearnce i was somewhat distracted
VardaValar1 (4:58:12 PM): I was distracted by my birthday party. Happens.
AriehnV (4:58:24 PM): ah happy birthday :-D
VardaValar1 (4:59:11 PM): Thank you. 55.
VardaValar1 (4:59:28 PM): Valandil thought the shock of seeing him crashed you.
AriehnV (4:59:55 PM): oh Valandil :-D Hello there i havent noticed you  at first
AriehnV (5:00:18 PM): nah i think it was because your invite and my entering the room came at the same time
Valandile Valar (5:00:18 PM): =-O
AriehnV (5:00:38 PM): I am glad to see you here though , old friend
Valandile Valar (5:00:49 PM): likewise
VardaValar1 (5:01:12 PM): Aye, most likely.
Valandile Valar (5:01:21 PM): it has been long since we ventured out together
AriehnV (5:01:33 PM): its been hard lately to enter Argent at all the queues are toong to wait out these days
AriehnV (5:01:43 PM): i hope under the week it will be better
VardaValar1 (5:01:59 PM): Pallando sent a message, Fladrif has it.
Valandile Valar (5:02:01 PM): today it took 40 minutes
VardaValar1 (5:02:34 PM): Fladrif, go ahead please.
Eonwe Valar (5:04:15 PM): Heya to Arien, belatedly :}
AriehnV (5:04:23 PM): :-)
AriehnV (5:04:35 PM): the ent has grown treeish again
VardaValar1 (5:04:50 PM): fladrifv: (7:59:50 PM) PallandoValar: I prolly won't be at the meeting today, could you tell everyone I'm alive, and have my new comp/net access now?
fladrifv (5:05:16 PM): *awakes rudely*
fladrifv (5:05:24 PM): *smiles* thank you Varda
VardaValar1 (5:06:00 PM): My pleasure
fladrifv (5:06:21 PM): it took me only 3 minutes to reacte, rather hasty for an ent *grin*
VardaValar1 (5:06:45 PM): Good to hear he's around. He was in the military, and I didn't know if he would be allowed to communicate any time soon.
luthienathariel (5:06:56 PM) has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (5:07:01 PM): Aiya Luthien
AriehnV (5:07:10 PM): aiya Luthien
luthienathariel (5:07:12 PM): oh I had forgotten sorry
luthienathariel (5:07:21 PM): Aiya all
VardaValar1 (5:07:24 PM): Invitation must have gotten lost.
Valandile Valar (5:07:37 PM): aiya
fladrifv (5:07:39 PM): a wizard is never late....wonder if it also acounts for you luthien
luthienathariel (5:07:41 PM): no, I was away from the computer, had a friend over
luthienathariel (5:07:45 PM): lol
VardaValar1 (5:08:12 PM): Elwing is over here. Hi also from Bilbo, Sauron, Eowyn, and Fangorn.
VardaValar1 (5:08:22 PM): Bilbo just gave a hug. : )
AriehnV (5:08:38 PM): *hugs all round to Vardas family*
Eonwe Valar (5:08:55 PM): Heya to them :}
VardaValar1 (5:09:03 PM): If we are done with membership news, let's go on to Gaming.
fladrifv (5:09:15 PM): now everyone has sun burns of ariehn
VardaValar1 (5:09:29 PM): I don't think Eonwe and I get sunburns. : )
luthienathariel (5:09:38 PM): :)

VardaValar1 (5:10:04 PM): Which games did you folks play this week that weren't WoW or LotRO?
Eonwe Valar (5:10:41 PM): I did some WC3 to remind myself of Arthas' Ascencion to the Frozen Throne.
VardaValar1 (5:10:50 PM): Good thinking
Eonwe Valar (5:11:16 PM): *Ascension
AriehnV (5:11:19 PM): (aye agreed Varda has her own coolant light , a nightbreeze that blows  from the stars and Eonwe as Heralld to Manwe , Master of Elements .. guess he has some warnth and heat to himself )
VardaValar1 (5:11:49 PM): I also make suns. Should have some immunity.
AriehnV (5:12:00 PM): :-) carry on
VardaValar1 (5:12:16 PM): Didn't game here, was away from computers most of the week.
VardaValar1 (5:12:25 PM): Fladrif was just on Magic. : )
VardaValar1 (5:13:09 PM): I know there was more gaming, but onwards.
VardaValar1 (5:13:11 PM): WoW:
VardaValar1 (5:13:42 PM): Europe. Arien, will you handle that report and pass it on to Valandil as needed?
AriehnV (5:13:59 PM): /
AriehnV (5:14:05 PM): will do
VardaValar1 (5:14:44 PM): (Flad is away)
AriehnV (5:15:17 PM): to be honest , i havent been on Argent Dawn before thursday afternoon , and i did manage to place Deatharien almost outwith the iron grip of the scourgd
AriehnV (5:15:20 PM): scourge
VardaValar1 (5:15:34 PM): Which server?
AriehnV (5:15:40 PM): Argent this one
VardaValar1 (5:15:45 PM): Thanks
AriehnV (5:15:59 PM): she is a Nightelf Deathknight
AriehnV (5:16:37 PM): i quite enjoy the massive dps and some of the latest invasions and plagues suddenly make sense
AriehnV (5:17:09 PM): She still misses the last two epic quests but i wasnt able to log in again
AriehnV (5:17:55 PM): unfortunately neither Ar Pharazon, menelvagor or Valandil were online at the time
AriehnV (5:17:59 PM): :-(
AriehnV (5:18:11 PM): but i am sure we will meet again :-)
AriehnV (5:18:19 PM): Thus endeth my report
VardaValar1 (5:18:28 PM): Helps to have a specific time to meet up, once a week maybe?
VardaValar1 (5:18:42 PM): Thanks. Valandil, did you meet up with any of the other Valarites?
Valandile Valar (5:19:00 PM): this week ? no, i didn t
Valandile Valar (5:19:27 PM): i was on regularly, but was mostly occupied with organizing my extended family
VardaValar1 (5:19:43 PM): Would you folks be able to pick a time to show up and game together once or twice a week?
Valandile Valar (5:19:52 PM): could be that i was on with Ariehn, but that she didn t recognize me
VardaValar1 (5:20:17 PM): Incognito Valandil!
Valandile Valar (5:20:25 PM): aye
AriehnV (5:20:28 PM): do u have new characters Valandil?
Valandile Valar (5:20:35 PM): dwarves are like that
Valandile Valar (5:20:43 PM): and i have created a new char
Valandile Valar (5:21:45 PM): for me the game hasn t been always about achieving the highest level, but also roleplay and
VardaValar1 (5:21:57 PM): You do remember to put new characters in the friend channel. /join Valar
Valandile Valar (5:22:04 PM): organizing my family there
VardaValar1 (5:22:06 PM): Aye, Val : )
Valandile Valar (5:22:26 PM): not all chars are on that channel, perhaps i should do that
VardaValar1 (5:22:34 PM): It really helps a lot!
VardaValar1 (5:22:58 PM): Does the Valar Guild still exist as an organization on Argent Dawn?
AriehnV (5:23:08 PM): it does indeed
AriehnV (5:23:13 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (5:23:20 PM): Who is the current "leader"?
AriehnV (5:23:56 PM) has entered the room.
fladrifv (5:24:06 PM): (12:23:19 AM) VardaValar1: Who is the current "leader"?
AriehnV (5:24:10 PM): darn always the same sorry
AriehnV (5:24:18 PM): I am still
AriehnV (5:24:59 PM): I would have passed that office to valandil as he is the most active player of that guild .., but the time has not yet come for that .. may be soon
VardaValar1 (5:25:02 PM): Crashes, heh.
VardaValar1 (5:25:22 PM): We do prefer that a leader be at least of Maia honor before taking over.
VardaValar1 (5:25:53 PM): Second in command can be a Full Member, no problem.
VardaValar1 (5:26:09 PM): So when the leader is not present, the other is pretty much the leader.
fladrifv (5:26:36 PM): *raises a branch* i can be third in command if needed as soon as I join wow once again
AriehnV (5:26:36 PM): oki do i ll sort the control out , so valandil can do more within it
Eonwe Valar (5:26:46 PM): Considering that the leader should be able to test new members.
VardaValar1 (5:26:53 PM): Maia and Vala Honor people are able to recruit, understand the way the guild works, and know how to communicate with the overall guild.
VardaValar1 (5:27:13 PM): When do you think that might be, Fladrif?
fladrifv (5:27:34 PM): I planned it for the next year, from januarie and onward
fladrifv (5:27:41 PM): december is a famely month
VardaValar1 (5:27:52 PM): That will be pretty soon then. : )
fladrifv (5:27:52 PM): january?
VardaValar1 (5:28:04 PM): Around January, cool. : )
VardaValar1 (5:28:44 PM): We can hope that Valandil will be interested in working to become a Maia Honor member. :-)
Valandile Valar (5:29:02 PM): sure
VardaValar1 (5:29:45 PM): Flad, if you're there, could you tell about Pharazon?
fladrifv (5:29:56 PM): sure
fladrifv (5:30:15 PM): Ar-PhrarazonV has some issues to connect at home to internet
fladrifv (5:30:29 PM): in essence did his modem give up
fladrifv (5:30:50 PM): so hopefully he will be as soon as possible back online again to join us
Ancbeard (5:31:26 PM): what kind of internet does he have? i have an extra cable modem hehe
fladrifv (5:31:38 PM): hehe he has an adsl
fladrifv (5:31:56 PM): and then a broadband router is of no good
fladrifv (5:32:14 PM): and he couldnt get his thomson adsl router to work
fladrifv (5:32:44 PM): (lcc setting option, sorry for the technical stuff here)
VardaValar1 (5:33:12 PM): Many of us here are accustomed to the tech stuff, so feel free to mention.
fladrifv (5:33:44 PM): ok, his 3com gave up, quite rare if you ask me
VardaValar1 (5:35:08 PM): ouch
fladrifv (5:35:44 PM): so if someone lives nearby him and know these kind of stuff he will be more then happy
VardaValar1 (5:36:53 PM): Couldn't he call the router company?
VardaValar1 (5:37:27 PM): He may just need to re-set after the DSL has been off a while.
VardaValar1 (5:37:42 PM): On to another WoW report:
VardaValar1 (5:37:47 PM): Uldaman server:
luthienathariel (5:38:02 PM): er, what who when how?
VardaValar1 (5:38:09 PM): It's been fairly busy, mostly with Elwing as she had trouble getting into Lothar server.
luthienathariel (5:38:17 PM): (fladrif called me, it's his fault)
VardaValar1 (5:38:22 PM): hehe
luthienathariel (5:38:43 PM): since I am partly a computer gal, maybe I could help ...
VardaValar1 (5:39:17 PM): Bet you could too!
VardaValar1 (5:39:39 PM): We are working in Uldaman to get one of us to 55 so we can run a Death Knight there. : )
VardaValar1 (5:39:58 PM): Eonwe, could you handle the General WoW report and the one for Lothar?
Eonwe Valar (5:41:16 PM): Sure
Eonwe Valar (5:41:31 PM): Well, as most of you know, Wrath of the Lich King came out Thursday :}
Eonwe Valar (5:41:48 PM): At midnight if you went really really early like me :}
Eonwe Valar (5:42:40 PM): I'd never bothered with a midnight release before, but thought I'd give one a go this time while I'm still young enough to not be tired before midnight, hehe.
Eonwe Valar (5:43:55 PM): Of course a few of us already have the expansion, and we've begun some treking into Northrend.
Eonwe Valar (5:45:06 PM): There were some mail and server issues before the expansion was released though. Seems to have been taken care of by Thursday, so everythign *should* be good in that department though.
Eonwe Valar (5:45:44 PM): You should've got all your mail back by now from Blizzard.
Eonwe Valar (5:46:04 PM): Lothar: This week's report comes from Thursday instead of Friday :}
Eonwe Valar (5:46:52 PM): Sauron, Bilbo, and I went out into the Boren Tundra to begin the fight against the Lich King. In the process, we met some friendly Tuskarr and helped them out against the giants attacking them.
Eonwe Valar (5:47:24 PM): We helped arm a town of farmers and miners against a scourge threat,..
Eonwe Valar (5:48:06 PM): And we guided some spirits back to their resting place, saving their sacred grounds from treasure hunters.
arwenv1 (5:48:22 PM) has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar (5:48:39 PM): That's the non-spoiler version :}
AriehnV (5:48:44 PM): Aiya Arwen :-)
VardaValar1 (5:49:18 PM): Arwen, aiya. : )
AriehnV (5:49:20 PM): hehe Eonwe thats nice of u :-) let us explore ourselves
Eonwe Valar (5:49:24 PM): There are dailies quests littered throughout the levelling experience this time around though.
Eonwe Valar (5:49:51 PM): So, in closing, Hello from Northrend and hope to see you there :}
AriehnV (5:49:52 PM): i ve been with Finduilaswen around the beach outside valiance keep
VardaValar1 (5:51:19 PM): Arwen, you've surely been racing around in the expansion in WoW too?
arwenv1 (5:52:13 PM): somewhat :)
arwenv1 (5:52:27 PM): I was waiting for my friend, his deadness, the Dk to get to 70 before starting to level :)
VardaValar1 (5:52:42 PM): hehe - his deadness
arwenv1 (5:52:46 PM): but I did a lot of fishing, have a ton of coins from the fountain in dalaran, lots of cooking done :)
VardaValar1 (5:53:06 PM): Sounds fun!
arwenv1 (5:53:34 PM): yeah :) He got to 70 yesterday evening, so we did a quest to get a weapon upgrade and then Utgarde Keep, which was good fun :)
arwenv1 (5:54:58 PM): the queues to get in are a bit urking though
arwenv1 (5:55:12 PM): but its nice to see so many people taking an interest again :)
AriehnV (5:55:18 PM): ah well i am sorry to interrrupt again but i have to go now :-( Early shift i ll read the scirpt next week so get some tolkien discussion going :-)
VardaValar1 (5:55:18 PM): Aye. Gives time to go make a meal and wash dishes.
arwenv1 (5:55:29 PM): this is true :)
VardaValar1 (5:55:34 PM): Arien, good to have you. See you around!
fladrifv (5:55:44 PM): namarie ariehn
arwenv1 (5:55:46 PM): Good night Ariehn :)
AriehnV (5:55:51 PM): Nice to see you all and especially you Valandil :-)
AriehnV (5:55:59 PM): Namarie !
Valandile Valar (5:56:03 PM): <bows>
AriehnV (5:56:07 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (5:56:18 PM): LotRO:
VardaValar1 (5:56:30 PM): The Valarites there have been very busy indeed.
VardaValar1 (5:57:12 PM): We are getting ready for the new expansion, trying to get mains through the books, complete deeds for traits, and max crafting.
VardaValar1 (5:57:43 PM): We made a full run on Urugarth, with standbys even.
VardaValar1 (5:58:09 PM): We got Falathar through his Lore-master quest for his eagle, and he is a full level 50 now.
VardaValar1 (5:58:54 PM): People are returning, and others plan to be in for the expansion. We already had a good number of regulars, so it's quite lively at times.
VardaValar1 (5:59:23 PM): We try to have a good group run Friday evening or Saturday
VardaValar1 (5:59:52 PM): The Melkorrim tend to run Saturday and Sunday mornings and let others join in with them, making two more hefty runs.
VardaValar1 (6:00:19 PM): Then we do impromptu runs during the week, adding folk from our friend channel when needed to help round out a fellowship.
VardaValar1 (6:01:28 PM): Anc, unless you want to add anything, end LotRO report.

VardaValar1 (6:02:04 PM): Tolkien:
VardaValar1 (6:02:12 PM): Eonwe has a topic for us. :-)
Eonwe Valar (6:02:44 PM): Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar (6:02:57 PM): I want to set this up a bit, but I'll try to keep it brief.
Eonwe Valar (6:04:16 PM): Eonwë was called the Herald of Manwë. he was the leader of the armies of the Valar.
Eonwe Valar (6:05:04 PM): Sauron was called Morgoth's "lieutenant."
orodrethV (6:05:24 PM) has entered the room.
pallandovalar (6:05:24 PM) has entered the room.
oessala (6:05:33 PM) has entered the room.
orodrethV (6:05:36 PM): Aiya all!
Eonwe Valar (6:05:53 PM): Sauron was mighty among the Maiar of Aulë, so much so that he was remembered among them even after he went over to Morgoth.
VardaValar1 (6:06:31 PM): Pallando, aiya!
Eonwe Valar (6:06:58 PM): Otherwise, Morgoth would not have wasted his time with choosing Sauron, since certainly Morgoth would not let his second-in-command be that much inferior to Manwë's.
Eonwe Valar (6:07:46 PM): So, why this difference of title between Eonwxë and Sauron, if they both serve more or less the same role?
Eonwe Valar (6:08:16 PM): What do we know of the roles each served or the organizations they serves in that would explain this?
Eonwe Valar (6:08:30 PM): *served in
VardaValar1 (6:09:01 PM): So this is a comparison of the similar roles that Eonwe and Sauron played on the opposite sides?
Eonwe Valar (6:09:07 PM): Short version: Compare and contrast the roles of Eonwë and Sauron.
Eonwe Valar (6:09:27 PM): Aye Varda.
pallandovalar (6:09:59 PM): Well, it seems to me that Sauron was definitely trusted by Morgoth. He held Tol Elessa (?) after Orodreth left it, and he also lead the hunt against Bere, just off the top of my head.
VardaValar1 (6:10:03 PM): With Eonwe watching as we compare...
luthienathariel (6:10:08 PM): :)
VardaValar1 (6:11:08 PM): Manwe trusted Eonwe to lead the Valar and elf armies into Middle-earth against Morgoth's forces.
Eonwe Valar (6:11:19 PM): Tol Sirion I believe you mean :}
Eonwe Valar (6:11:34 PM): The former Elf stronghold of MInas Tirith in the First Age.
VardaValar1 (6:11:45 PM): Morgoth trusted Sauron to lead his armies against Middle-earth and the forces of Valinor.
VardaValar1 (6:12:20 PM): Both performed with great ability and proved that they were well-chosen.
VardaValar1 (6:13:14 PM): Both were Maiar.
VardaValar1 (6:14:14 PM): When Morgoth was shoved through the Doors of Night, Sauron brought Morgoth's forces back together again and continued in much the same way.
Eonwe Valar (6:15:01 PM): So why not call Sauron the "Herald of Morgoth?" :} Seems like a fancier job title than "lieutenant."
pallandovalar (6:15:07 PM): Eonwe: yes, Tol sirion
VardaValar1 (6:15:15 PM): Eonwe was never put in that position, but judging by his actions, he would have continued Manwe's work.
Eonwe Valar (6:15:58 PM): Aye, an interesting point, Varda.
VardaValar1 (6:16:21 PM): More military sounding, in a really direct way, maybe?
luthienathariel (6:16:49 PM): isn't herald more of a "spokesman" ?
Valandile Valar (6:16:58 PM): 'Messenger"
Eonwe Valar (6:17:11 PM): True
arwenv1 (6:17:33 PM): I always thought a herald was an announcer
luthienathariel (6:17:48 PM): yes, me too
Eonwe Valar (6:17:48 PM): He speaks with the authority of he who sent him.
luthienathariel (6:17:55 PM): like that "mouth of Sauron"
VardaValar1 (6:18:07 PM): Announcer is one meaning of herald, but not the only one.
VardaValar1 (6:18:22 PM): The words actually mean "army ruler".
Eonwe Valar (6:18:51 PM): Heralds can also be ambassadors.
Eonwe Valar (6:19:07 PM): More or less.
pallandovalar (6:19:20 PM): They would be trusted to make binding agreements with other nations in the name of their Lord.
Eonwe Valar (6:19:25 PM): "Army ruler" would fit Eonwë's job description certainly.
VardaValar1 (6:19:32 PM): It is an officer of arms, an ambassador.
pallandovalar (6:19:43 PM): which means their lord had absolute trust in them, if they were employed as ambassadors
Eonwe Valar (6:19:55 PM): He was also Manwë's banner-bearer, seems in this case distinct from "herald."
VardaValar1 (6:19:55 PM): Aye, Pallando. Morgoth preferred to keep such decisions as agreements for himself, perhaps.
Eonwe Valar (6:21:00 PM): Well, not being able to actually make agreements also leaves Morgoths servants free to lie and blame it on Morgoth if they're looking to ingratiate themselves.
VardaValar1 (6:21:01 PM): Morgoth preferred slaves but had to have someone capable of thinking as his right-hand.
Eonwe Valar (6:21:46 PM): Not that Morgoth himself would necessarily uphold any agreement he made.
VardaValar1 (6:21:55 PM): Morgoth didn't like to go out in the world where his body could be injured. Manwe remained on Taniquetil where he could observe, and his coming would mean the Last Battle.
VardaValar1 (6:22:10 PM): Aye, but Morgoth could keep control.
pallandovalar (6:23:22 PM): Didn't Morgoth agree to parley with Feanor and then murder him? Or am i adding in my own bits of history?
Eonwe Valar (6:23:29 PM): The difference in title might also hint at differences in innate leadership style
VardaValar1 (6:23:51 PM): Both had a way with words, Sauron and Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar (6:24:05 PM): Morgoth agreed to meet with Fëanor's sons then planned to murder them, but both sides didn't keep that agreement and so there was a war instead.
VardaValar1 (6:24:29 PM): Aye, neither trusted the other. Had similarities. ;-)
luthienathariel (6:24:49 PM): yes, the words from Eonwë as he greeted Earendil are wonderful
VardaValar1 (6:24:53 PM): Luthien-TV found a good example of Eonwe's way with words.
Eonwe Valar (6:25:01 PM): Pardon, I mean more in leadership of their higher-ups, Morgoth and Manwë, namely, Tolkien chose the different titles to show the different philosophies.
luthienathariel (6:25:13 PM): “Hail Eärendil, of mariners most renowned, the looked for that cometh at
luthienathariel (6:25:21 PM): unawares, the longed for that cometh beyond hope!
luthienathariel (6:25:29 PM): Hail Eärendil, bearer of light
before the Sun and Moon!
luthienathariel (6:25:36 PM): plendour of the Children of Earth, star in the
luthienathariel (6:25:43 PM): darkness, jewel in the sunset, radiant in the morning!�
Eonwe Valar (6:26:02 PM): Aye, those are good words.
luthienathariel (6:26:03 PM): (grr this thiing doesnt let you copy anything over about 12 words long)
VardaValar1 (6:26:44 PM): Aye. We learn to cope. : )
VardaValar1 (6:27:20 PM): Eonwe spoke beautifully, from the heart, with truth.
luthienathariel (6:27:41 PM): and there is also the part where Sauron and (I think) Finrod battle with words
VardaValar1 (6:27:50 PM): Sauron spoke beautifully, to further plans, with truth only if it served his purpose.
luthienathariel (6:27:55 PM): yes
VardaValar1 (6:28:16 PM): Good example, aye. Where truth served Sauron's purpose, well-chosen facts leaving out others.
VardaValar1 (6:29:54 PM): Eonwe, I liked your point about the title differences. The Mouth of Sauron is another way of showing Morgoth's attitude, showing no personal volition.
luthienathariel (6:30:15 PM): what is that name again ....
Eonwe Valar (6:30:15 PM): Aye
luthienathariel (6:30:22 PM): of the "voice of god"
VardaValar1 (6:30:29 PM): Was that Pallando that brought up the Mouth?
luthienathariel (6:30:32 PM): it is a strangely computery term I tyough
luthienathariel (6:30:34 PM): thought
luthienathariel (6:30:43 PM): oh yes
luthienathariel (6:30:46 PM): metatron
Eonwe Valar (6:31:11 PM): Hmm will take a look..
Eonwe Valar (6:31:41 PM): Luthien mentioend the Mouth of Sauron.
Eonwe Valar (6:31:45 PM): *mentioned
VardaValar1 (6:31:48 PM): Thanks : )
Eonwe Valar (6:32:25 PM): If you look how both Manwë and Morgoth ruled, you see that the title makes sense.
Eonwe Valar (6:32:55 PM): Morgoth didn't ask for council from anyone. He gave orders and expected them to be followed, even to Gothmog "Lord" of Balrogs.
Eonwe Valar (6:34:19 PM): Sauron was a lieutenant. Morgoth essentially ruled like a general.
luthienathariel (6:35:22 PM): yes, I think he only came out once in the first age ...
luthienathariel (6:35:50 PM): for the rest, he hid in his dungeons ..
Eonwe Valar (6:35:53 PM): Manwë was "the Elder King," but a monarchy doesn't eliminate the potential for taking council with others for the betterment of all.
luthienathariel (6:36:18 PM): and indeed, there are numerous mentions of Manwë indeed doing so
Eonwe Valar (6:36:23 PM): Aye.
Eonwe Valar (6:36:45 PM): counsel, pardon.
VardaValar1 (6:36:46 PM): Council of Mahanaxar, aye.
luthienathariel (6:36:50 PM): sometimes he does overrule, but then still referring to Eru
luthienathariel (6:37:07 PM): like in "in this case, the power of doom has been given to me"
VardaValar1 (6:37:34 PM): Morgoth had no council. : )
luthienathariel (6:37:39 PM): no
luthienathariel (6:37:58 PM): not even a silmaril - in the end - HA!
Eonwe Valar (6:38:14 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (6:38:23 PM): Just...Void.
Eonwe Valar (6:38:53 PM): Let's see if I remember the quote...
luthienathariel (6:39:03 PM): but you know I still feel pity for him, when I read of the passage that the "throw him on his face"
Eonwe Valar (6:39:08 PM): Manwë "took no thought for his own honor, but ruled all to peace."
luthienathariel (6:39:16 PM): and make him wear Angainor, that he wore before
luthienathariel (6:39:38 PM): yes
Eonwe Valar (6:39:39 PM): It's a doom that he brought upon himself though.
luthienathariel (6:39:44 PM): I know.
VardaValar1 (6:39:52 PM): And how would Morgoth have treated Manwe in the same place? Morgoth got off lightly.
luthienathariel (6:39:59 PM): I know ....
luthienathariel (6:40:04 PM): know, I know.
VardaValar1 (6:40:08 PM): Aye, and it still sounds awful.
luthienathariel (6:40:11 PM): I am not
luthienathariel (6:40:13 PM): precisely.
luthienathariel (6:40:15 PM): yes
VardaValar1 (6:40:20 PM): No argument. : )
VardaValar1 (6:41:07 PM): When Arda is re-made, and all know and understand what was intended by Eru, one can assume Morgoth will become Melkor as he should have been. : )
luthienathariel (6:41:57 PM): I find this passage very fitting in this regard as well
luthienathariel (6:42:01 PM): yes, I hope so ..
luthienathariel (6:42:15 PM): for to him that is pitiless the deeds of pity are ever strange
luthienathariel (6:42:20 PM): and beyond
VardaValar1 (6:42:48 PM): Well said, indeed.
Eonwe Valar (6:42:49 PM): But "nothing is ever evil in its beginning. Even Morgoth was not so."
luthienathariel (6:42:54 PM): yes
VardaValar1 (6:43:14 PM): Morgoth and Manwe had trouble truly understanding each other.
Eonwe Valar (6:43:26 PM): Morgoth knowingly rejected good. Should he then be granted that which he already rejected?
VardaValar1 (6:43:38 PM): Thus they needed others such as Sauron for Morgoth, to help them work out what might happen.
luthienathariel (6:43:38 PM): in the beginning, you do sense an inclination of him "never finding satisfaction" and going out on his own into the void
VardaValar1 (6:44:18 PM): Morgoth wanted the ability to create so that he could be as powerful as Eru, who was the only one more powerful than himself.
Eonwe Valar (6:44:44 PM): Or rather than "granted," perhaps "have what he has rejected forced upon him" might be a more interesting wording.
luthienathariel (6:44:45 PM): to possess the flame inperishable himself
VardaValar1 (6:45:05 PM): It is not necessarily evil to want to be the best one can be, but Melkor went off by himself and had many thoughts that he did not share with others for perspective.
luthienathariel (6:45:11 PM): or to grant independent existence to things like Eru
luthienathariel (6:45:17 PM): yes
luthienathariel (6:45:40 PM): it is interesting how Aulë goes part of that way with the dwarves, but repents
VardaValar1 (6:45:47 PM): Melkor did not properly understand how things were, that the flame was a part of Eru himself.
luthienathariel (6:45:54 PM): yes
VardaValar1 (6:46:25 PM): Aule was impatient to see the Children, not wanting to wait. Melkor wanted to make and control his own creations.
VardaValar1 (6:47:25 PM): Good point.
luthienathariel (6:47:57 PM): yes, they are of course different
VardaValar1 (6:48:26 PM): Aye, we are making comparisons and contrasts, so that was a good one.
luthienathariel (6:48:44 PM): I also find the discourse between Yavanna and Aulë there very interesting
VardaValar1 (6:51:55 PM): Which part?
luthienathariel (6:52:00 PM): oh
luthienathariel (6:52:06 PM): wait, looking ...
luthienathariel (6:53:14 PM): ah yes, it is directly after his meeting with Eru, who has told him to put them to sleep
luthienathariel (6:53:22 PM): he talks to Yavanna and tells her all about it
luthienathariel (6:53:31 PM): and Yavanna answers
luthienathariel (6:53:36 PM): “Eru is merciful.
Now I see that thy heart rejoiceth,
luthienathariel (6:53:43 PM): as indeed it may; for thou hast received not
only forgiveness but bounty.
luthienathariel (6:53:49 PM): Yet because thou hiddest this thought from me until
luthienathariel (6:53:56 PM): its achievement, thy children will have little love
luthienathariel (6:54:00 PM): for the things of my love.
luthienathariel (6:54:05 PM): They
will love first the things made by their own hands,
luthienathariel (6:54:10 PM): as doth their father.
luthienathariel (6:54:15 PM): They will
delve in the earth, and the things that grow
luthienathariel (6:54:20 PM): and live upon the earth they will not
luthienathariel (6:54:25 PM): Many a tree shall feel the bite of their iron without pity.�
luthienathariel (6:54:32 PM): But Aulë answered: “That shall also be true of the Children of Ilúvatar;
luthienathariel (6:54:37 PM): for
they will eat and they will build.
luthienathariel (6:54:42 PM): And though the things of thy realm have worth
luthienathariel (6:54:48 PM): in themselves, and would have worth if no Children were to come,
luthienathariel (6:54:56 PM): yet Eru will
give them dominion, and they shall use
luthienathariel (6:55:02 PM): all that they find in Arda: though not,
by the purpose of Eru,
luthienathariel (6:55:07 PM): without respect or without gratitude.�
luthienathariel (6:55:27 PM): and then she goes to talk to Manwë
luthienathariel (6:55:41 PM): because she is worried about this
luthienathariel (6:56:01 PM): “King of Arda, is it true, as Aulë hath said to me,
that the Children
luthienathariel (6:56:05 PM): when they come shall have dominion over all the things of my
luthienathariel (6:56:10 PM): labour, to do as they will therewith?�
luthienathariel (6:56:31 PM): hmm it's too long to copy all of it
luthienathariel (6:56:49 PM): just the conclusion then ...
fladrifv (6:56:53 PM): namarie all
luthienathariel (6:57:17 PM): “Eru is
bountiful,� she said. “Now let thy children beware!
luthienathariel (6:57:23 PM): For there shall walk a power
in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril.�
luthienathariel (6:57:31 PM): (referring to you Fladrivf!
luthienathariel (6:57:34 PM): trhe ents
luthienathariel (6:57:41 PM): “Nonetheless they will have need of wood,� said Aulë, and he
luthienathariel (6:57:46 PM): went on with
his smith-work.
fladrifv (6:57:47 PM): Im honored
luthienathariel (6:58:06 PM): I find that last line so funny b/c it is almost homely.
fladrifv (6:58:53 PM): almost human
VardaValar1 (6:58:56 PM): Aye. It is wonderful. : )
fladrifv (6:59:29 PM): script saved, please someone take over for the last part
VardaValar1 (6:59:42 PM): Thank you, Fladrif!
luthienathariel (6:59:47 PM): but it is also significant because there is this interaction between Yavanna and Manwë and he goes to council Eru especially for Yavanna's worries
luthienathariel (6:59:50 PM): yes, I will
Ancbeard (7:00:07 PM) has left the room.
fladrifv (7:00:14 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (7:00:16 PM): Aye, Manwe takes thought and goes to some trouble for any one of his people.
luthienathariel (7:00:20 PM): yes
luthienathariel (7:00:32 PM): that's where I wanted to head for eventually ;)
VardaValar1 (7:01:16 PM): Shows you were being clear. : )
VardaValar1 (7:02:25 PM): This may be a good time to finish up. Does anyone have any thoughts they want to present before the gavel?
luthienathariel (7:02:34 PM): yes, there are many interesting diversions on the way though ...
Eonwe Valar (7:03:02 PM): I think I've said all I can for now :}
luthienathariel (7:03:15 PM): I could go on .. but not on my own
luthienathariel (7:03:35 PM): so go ahead, bang that gavel ;)
VardaValar1 (7:03:39 PM): I have put the topic on the Forum so we can add to it after this.
Eonwe Valar (7:03:40 PM): I don't want to say too much that might end up in one of my papers :}
VardaValar1 (7:03:44 PM): hehe
luthienathariel (7:03:51 PM): lol
VardaValar1 (7:03:58 PM): I intend to put a link to this conversation with it on the forum
VardaValar1 (7:04:07 PM): and Eonwe can add links to his papers also! :-)
Eonwe Valar (7:04:15 PM): :}
luthienathariel (7:04:16 PM): ow yes, there is the forum, too ...
VardaValar1 (7:04:20 PM): *bangs gavel musically*
luthienathariel (7:04:25 PM): wow!
VardaValar1 (7:04:34 PM): Luthien, your language section is up for whenever you want to use it.
luthienathariel (7:04:43 PM): an A# !
luthienathariel (7:04:50 PM): thank you!
luthienathariel (7:05:22 PM): *takes a look at the little silver gavel, that it sounds so musically*
VardaValar1 (7:05:36 PM): *passes it to Luthien to try out*
luthienathariel (7:05:43 PM): *bingggggg*
VardaValar1 (7:05:50 PM): It will magically return to the chairperson as needed.
luthienathariel (7:05:51 PM): *hands it back*
luthienathariel (7:05:53 PM): nice gavel!
VardaValar1 (7:05:55 PM): Thank you