Valar Guild

May 4, 2008 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon, Menelvagor, and Varda

Attending: (9 of 138 members)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, arwenv1, Elwing V, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, Glorfindel VG, Menelvagor Valar, VardaValar1 (presiding)

    A wee bit of Dutch at the start, pretty cool, see if you can follow it. Time is for them also.
    We learn that AIM invitations fail if someone else invited the person aleady.
    New Full Member: Peregrin-(V)
    Return: Legolas-(V)
    Birthdays: Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, Fangorn, Fladrif
    Graduations: Lots including Arwen, Eonwe
    Marriage: Gimli
    House moving: Fladrif, Gimli
    WoW: Argent Dawn, Lothar
    Fladrif's Ent news:
        Ent webcomic address.
        Two guild ents with birthdays this month.
    Varda's topic: Aging in different folk of Middle-earth: Ents, Dwarves, Men, Hobbits, Elves, continues in After-meeting.
After-meeting (more Tolkien)
    Elf sleepwalking: memories and sleep may also affect quality of life as they age.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV (22:43:08) has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar (22:43:08) has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (22:45:10): Aiya
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
Menelvagor Valar: Matrix Reloaded op tv :P
ArPharazonV: al gezien :-)
ArPharazonV: hele trilogie was op tv tijdje geleden
Menelvagor Valar: ik ook al gezien.
Menelvagor Valar: en nu kijk ik hem weer :P
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
fladrifv: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar, Menel, Eonwe, and Fladrif. :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Invitation to Gwaihir failed
ArPharazonV: same here
VardaValar1: and to Bombur, failed.
Eonwe Valar: He's still got one from me pending according to my window.
ArPharazonV: what's Bombur's aim name again?
Eonwe Valar: He being Gwaihir.
VardaValar1: Bombur is MrMonkey2002Blah
ArPharazonV: failed
Eonwe Valar: BOmbur still has one pending from me as well.
ArPharazonV: hmm... who's MyCantalopeH8tsU again?
VardaValar1: Maybe that is why ours are failing. : )
VardaValar1: Dior-V
ArPharazonV: ah
Eonwe Valar: I forget who has the cantelopehatesyou screen name, but he declined my invitation.
VardaValar1: Mine too.
ArPharazonV: added it to the buddy comments
ArPharazonV: hard to remember such names
ArPharazonV: hmm... in fact, I think I'm a little behind in my buddylist
ArPharazonV: last one might have been Arien
VardaValar1: Some people are still sweating out the upcoming Finals week.
VardaValar1: AriehnV just came online.
VardaValar1: I try to keep it updated on the Members page, if that helps.
ArPharazonV: invite for Arien, failed
ArPharazonV: this is getting annoying
Menelvagor Valar: Same.
ArPharazonV: is this what it's like for you every week?
Eonwe Valar: I'm one of those preparing for finals. Doing last minute work on a project as we speak, heh.
VardaValar1: My sympathy. I'll gavel tonight then. : )
AriehnV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien. : )
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
AriehnV: heya :-) li ll be in 5 dark vile worgen or whatsover lol
AriehnV: wont be long
VardaValar1: Good hunting!
VardaValar1: Ok, I'm going to make an attempt to complete business in a reasonable time, say an hour or less. : ) Wish me luck!
ArPharazonV: I had an interesting WoW week...

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
ArPharazonV: but I'll give that story in the appropriate section :-)
VardaValar1: Thanky, we'd like to hear it. : )
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Legolas-(V) made it back to LotRO after some rough times in real life.
VardaValar1: He is gaming there and chatting even as we speak. : )
VardaValar1: He expects to get to be around more now. : )
VardaValar1: We have a new Full Member, Peregrine-(V)! [note: Peregrin-(V), pardon]
VardaValar1: He's been a guild-friend in WoW for a few years, not able to game much.
VardaValar1: Currently he's using my buddy key for LotRO.
VardaValar1: He can't play as much as he'd like, with a 70-hour work week.
VardaValar1: He's one of the guys who attempt to keep our family's computer network going, and helps others of the guild also, at a local computer shop.
VardaValar1: Very nice guy, you'll like him. : )
VardaValar1: He was lucky to get his favorite character's name.
VardaValar1: Any other membership news from you folks?
Eonwe Valar: Graduation next week, Mother's day the day after :}
VardaValar1: That should keep us all busy!
ArPharazonV: oh!
ArPharazonV: my birthday's in 2 days *nod*
ArPharazonV: guess that's member news!
arwenv1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Yay, and yes it is. Happy birthday in two days, Phar!
VardaValar1: Aiya Arwen. : )
arwenv1: Yay :-)
arwenv1: and Hi! :-)
ArPharazonV: won't do much to celebrate, it's a busy college day, but just figured I'd throw it in here
Menelvagor Valar: Grats!
ArPharazonV: Thanks, both! All!
VardaValar1: Surviving another year is accomplishment enough. : ) Grats!
ArPharazonV: going to be 23 already.. I know I'm a youngster compared to most of you, but it's starting to feel old :-)
VardaValar1: Getting to be an adult. : )
ArPharazonV: *nod* well, I've recently adopted a new view concerning my age
VardaValar1: pardon, quick look-up of something for Fangorn at work.
ArPharazonV: I figure, since I don't drink, don't smoke, etc... I've got an average of 10 years on many other people
ArPharazonV: so in a way I'll still be 13 *nod*
ArPharazonV: *stops nodding, it gets annoying*
AriehnV: back and ding :-)
VardaValar1: back
VardaValar1: Grats Arien : )
ArPharazonV: grats!
arwenv1: grats :-)
AriehnV: ta :-) its my shammy, 30
VardaValar1: Phar, we are still the same person whether 4 years or 40 years, just with a larger database and changing body.
: )
ArPharazonV: my voice is squeeky high and I'm not growing any chesthair yet, so... my body feels young too :-)
AriehnV: aye congratulations in two ,elder one :-)
ArPharazonV: which is ok, I wanna live my life at my own pace
ArPharazonV: just because I'm officially an adult doesn't mean I need to stand on my own from one day to the next, I'm doing just fine ;-)
ArPharazonV: My time will come! *shakes fist to the world*
Eonwe Valar: *World shakes fist back* hehe
ArPharazonV: maybe I need to be like the kings of Numenor... you know, get married at 100, die at 200 years
AriehnV: *grins slyly and looks at herself* , ah well me as wow granny what shall i sa
VardaValar1: You tend to continue growing until around 28.
VardaValar1: Arwen also has good member news for us. : )
VardaValar1: Arwen, go ahead!
arwenv1: Teehee!
arwenv1: I graduated from University yesterday with my Bachelors degree =)
Menelvagor Valar: Congrats!
ArPharazonV: Congratulations!
AriehnV: Congrats indeed and well done
Eonwe Valar: Congrats Arwen :} No fair going a week ahead of me though :}
arwenv1: teehee
arwenv1: I think I aged relitivistically
VardaValar1: Woot! Way to go, Arwen!
Menelvagor Valar: *throws a hat for Arwen*
arwenv1: or something
arwenv1: Time went half as slow, I aged twice as fast.
VardaValar1: hehe - sounds like a tough time.
VardaValar1: Like to tell what you graduated in?
arwenv1: ah :-)
arwenv1: I have a Bachelors of Arts in Psychology
arwenv1: It was a rough week, for sure.
ArPharazonV: ooh, psychology...
VardaValar1: hmm, maybe I should get Arwen to run these meetings, as a trained people person. :-)
arwenv1: Hah! :-)
ArPharazonV: I was interested in psychology, or well, the concept of it... but I didn't care for the terminology and I don't want to make a living out of working with people...
ArPharazonV: but still, psychology in itself is quite fascinating
arwenv1: It is :-)
AriehnV: /
Elwing V has entered the room.
AriehnV: *nods*
VardaValar1: Aiya Elwing!
ArPharazonV: *grins*
arwenv1: I dont plan on ever being a therapist or a clinical psychologist, but it is a facinating field :-)
VardaValar1: We had a lot of membership news. Still in it. : )
Elwing V: woohoo - made it!
ArPharazonV: so what do you intend to do with your degree then?
ArPharazonV: Aiya Elwing :-)
AriehnV: heya Ellwing :-)
arwenv1: I havent decided. I want to work for a year and pay off some of my student loans and then decide
arwenv1: though I'm thinking of going into gerontology
VardaValar1: Could help in interviewing people for jobs for companies to help make the payback money.
ArPharazonV: Gerontology (from Greek: ????, gero, "old age"; and ?????, logos, "speech" lit. "to talk about old age") is the study of the social, psychological and biological aspects of aging.
ArPharazonV: go wiki
VardaValar1: *hopes Arwen is not looking at us when she says gerontology*
arwenv1: oh no :-)
Elwing V: young whippersnapper!
arwenv1: giggles :-)
VardaValar1: I think she's looking at ancient Phar, about to turn 23.
arwenv1: well, the thing is, the population in America is aging
ArPharazonV: *buys a cane*
arwenv1: the babyboomer generation is starting to hit retirement age
VardaValar1: Baby Boomers didn't have a giant lot of kids themselves.
arwenv1: yes, the population graphs look rather weird :-)
ArPharazonV: oh aye, same here in Europe, we're "greying" as well here
arwenv1: huge bump during the Baby boom years
arwenv1: and then fewer younger ones, etc.
arwenv1: and that generation is healthier than previous generations, they are also on a whole more financially secure
arwenv1: there's going to be a lot of need for services
ArPharazonV: *nod* less people working, more people needing financial support... well, relatively speaking
ArPharazonV: going to be interesting financially
arwenv1: The first Baby boomer applied for social security last year I think
VardaValar1: Baby Boomers were warned frequently about the dangers of overpopulation. Imagine if they had all had kids in the same numbers.
Eonwe Valar: Then we wouldn't be worried about not enough money going into Social Security, heh.
VardaValar1: They could take off the programs that are siphoning money out of it that aren't even related.
VardaValar1: But enough of that. : )
VardaValar1: Any further membership news?

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: We have new art
VardaValar1: Elwing's brother, DeepGroover, made a new model and painted it:
VardaValar1: Viking Warlord
VardaValar1: Click on the thumbnail to enlarge, and you might have to click on the bigger one again for best clarity.
VardaValar1: Two new stories are up.
VardaValar1: They made history as our first ones to use CSS for part of the formatting.
VardaValar1: Gilraen did much of the html set-up and pre-editing for
VardaValar1: "Trouble Follows" by Cassia-(TV)
VardaValar1: First time we've had a pre-editing person. Major speed-up, much appreciated!
VardaValar1: The other story is by an author who is with us right now.
VardaValar1: "The Love of One's Life" by Elwing-(V)
Elwing V: **grins slyly**
VardaValar1: I've read it, but as it's recent, has anyone else read it yet? Short story.
Elwing V: the title might fool you - this was in honor of Earth Day and Arbor day
Eonwe Valar: I'll make a point to give it a go tonight after I get done with my project.
VardaValar1: I've asked Elwing to say a few words about it.
VardaValar1: Thanks Elwing. : )
Elwing V: As much as I love the outdoors and it recently being Earth/Arbor days...
Elwing V: I thought "how appropriate to have a story about trees and nature from a woodelf viewpoint" (through my interpretation) :-)
VardaValar1: I enjoyed the varying ways you used the title meaning in your story. : )
VardaValar1: It also shows that you have a fine observer's eye.
Elwing V: thanks - the title might have been the most difficult part of this one
VardaValar1: Well done on that!
Elwing V: that and keeping it from going on and on...then it might have been ready in time for next years Earth and Arbor days :-)
VardaValar1: *chuckles*
Elwing V: so for more...must read **wicked grin**
VardaValar1: In webwork, I've done more behind the scenes programming, plus work on future offerings. We have lots more goodies of all sorts coming up, and can always use more.
VardaValar1: Does anyone else have web news?
VardaValar1: Eonwe, I don't think you had time to do more than breathe a couple of times this week for relaxation?
VardaValar1: (Right now he's supposed to be getting ready for the last week.)

VardaValar1: Gaming: ["Other", WoW, LotRO]
VardaValar1: Did anyone play any games that were not WoW or LotRO? : )
VardaValar1: Fladrif? Phar?
VardaValar1: (We know they did.)
ArPharazonV: yep
ArPharazonV: still the 3 games in rotation
ArPharazonV: that I mentioned last week
Eonwe Valar: Sorry for late response. Aye, I've had no time for working on anything besides school.
ArPharazonV: Starcraft: Brood War, War Wind, and Warzone 2100
ArPharazonV: not much progress to report, though I did do a Protoss mission I enjoyed a lot
VardaValar1: np, Eonwe
AriehnV: A WORK colleague mentioned a driving run and jump game called Cromadrome 2, has anyone of you guys heard of it?
ArPharazonV: no base building, you just get troops and have to manouvre through Terran formations to shut down all the power generators to disable the surrounding AA towers.. what was the name of that thing again..
ArPharazonV: Missile Turret, that's it
ArPharazonV: and whenever you shut one down you get extra troops
ArPharazonV: I had great fun that mission, making use of stealth, detection, flying units and land units, range, etc...
ArPharazonV: never lost a single unit :-)
ArPharazonV: but there I will end my rant, I'll get back to you in the WoW section of the meeting :-)
ArPharazonV: and no, afraid I haven't heard of Cromadrome 2.. or 1, for that matter
AriehnV: it seems to be a fairly fun game where you race around tracks which get faster and faster each level
AriehnV: with obstacles to avoid and jump over
AriehnV: and sound effects
AriehnV: but i myself havent heard or played it , just this colleague was quite enthusiastic about it
AriehnV: wonder what Arwen would make out of this one ;-) as professional alas
AriehnV: carry on please :-)
VardaValar1: Increasing excitement as you get the hang of it. Sounds like a game.
VardaValar1: ok, on to WoW. [Argent Dawn, Lothar]
VardaValar1: Phar, you had a report for Argent Dawn?
ArPharazonV: I don't think we had any Valar cooperation, did we?
ArPharazonV: but I myself did have some interesting experiences, and been starting new projects
VardaValar1: ok, you said you had something you wanted to tell about.
ArPharazonV: I panicked a bit this week, because I am a reputation freak with my main, and I'm running out of factions, so I maybe have to pay more attention to my alts in the future :-)
Elwing V: as in youre such a good guy everyone loves you now and theres no one left to fight? :-)
ArPharazonV: I had to postpone my plans for the Bloodsail Buccaneers and Steamwheedle Cartel, because it isn't possible to get exalted with the former yet, and to get there with the former you have to go through hated with the latter first,
ArPharazonV: so that has to wait until Blizzard makes in new content at any point, which they might never do, but that's a worry for later
ArPharazonV: so this week I started on my most expensive rep-project yet.... Shen'dralar
ArPharazonV: purchasing all the librams and shards and pristine diamonds for it is going to cost me well over 3000 gold at current rates, so it's going to drain me dry
ArPharazonV: luckily I can still do plenty of daily quests for that, but my character might find himself rather broke in a while ;-)
VardaValar1: So you are doing your rep by AH?
ArPharazonV: well, the droprates for these are simply too low to farm them
VardaValar1: So it really can't be done as it should be, bad design?
ArPharazonV: I *will* however be searchign for all the other stuff I need for the librams, being Blood of Heroes, Abomination Stitchings, and Skins of Shadow, as they are bind on pickup
ArPharazonV: Shen'dralar is not something reasonable people would grind to exalted, there's no reward in the end, but hey, as I said, I'm just a repfreak
Elwing V: what exactly is a libram?
ArPharazonV: a book that when delivered with certain reagents, rewards you with a small enchant for your gear
ArPharazonV: the type of enchant depends on the type of libram
Eonwe Valar: head or leg enchant if memory serves.
ArPharazonV: the ones you can deliver at the Shen'dralar, which give 500 reputation per turn-in, are only 3 out of.. 8 types, and those 3 types are rather rare
ArPharazonV: aye, head or leg
Elwing V: so you don't have to have enchant skill to use it?
ArPharazonV: no
Elwing V: nice
Eonwe Valar: No, it's like your armor patches in that manner.
ArPharazonV: indeed
Elwing V: guess that's a bit like some of my "leatherwork" makes mail (??go figure)
Eonwe Valar: Leather can hold metal together :}
ArPharazonV: so anyway, I figure that while I farm for the BoP stuff for the Shen'dralar I'll pick up plenty of runecloth to finish the last bits for the two alliance factions I haven't exalted yet, Exodar and Gnomeregan Exiles.. as I'll be gett
ArPharazonV: as I'll be getting the runecloth anyway, those factions should basically grind themselves ;-)
ArPharazonV: after I'm done with all that, I just have the 2 pvp factions Silverwing Sentinels and League of Arathor to go.. and then I'm pretty much done
VardaValar1: Did you do anything this week with other Valar, Phar?
ArPharazonV: I'll be at 31 exalted factions then... life's work... I hope the next expansion comes soon, because I'll be boooored :-)
VardaValar1: (come to LotRO...)
Menelvagor Valar: gnigni Phar. I beat you at that at least.
ArPharazonV: how so, Menel?
Menelvagor Valar: Anarore has been exalted with all Alliance factions for a long time :-)
ArPharazonV: ahh :-)
ArPharazonV: yeah, well, Anarore's a shaman... and shamans tend to get levelled since the time where you still got full reputation from low level quests
VardaValar1: Arien has some news for WoW also.
ArPharazonV: when I did them all, that wasn't the case, and thus I'm naturally far behind
AriehnV: indeedf !
ArPharazonV: but working on it
ArPharazonV: and passing the floor to Arien!
Menelvagor Valar: Aye, that is true of course.
AriehnV: a sparrow has told me about recent inquiries about my wow activity or rather Argent Dawn ant it honors me that people show interest :-)
AriehnV: so just to let you know .. i moved my main activity to Bloodhoof server where i transfered my shaman from Argent Dawn to
AriehnV: all the other characters are still on Argent Dawn and ready for activity and help if needed , so Ar , let Valandil know that i am still there if he needs hel[p somewhere
ArPharazonV: I will do that
AriehnV: and bear yourself this in mind , there is always aim to contact me
VardaValar1: Can he reach you via AIM?
VardaValar1: Never see him on AIM. What name is he using?
AriehnV: i will have it on more
ArPharazonV: Valandil Valar is the one in my list
AriehnV: aye on mine too
VardaValar1: Same here. Is that how you contact him, Arien?
AriehnV: /
VardaValar1: Good luck then.
AriehnV: i will check in now and again on argent as well i think
AriehnV: .i wont disappear wholly from there
ArPharazonV: good :-)
VardaValar1: Who will be handling the Valar Guild on AD with both Menel and Arien not being around much?
AriehnV: the reason for this server move was the longing for an active guild that groups together in good and evil undertakings
ArPharazonV: with both Menel and Arien not being around much, there's not much of a VG on AD left
VardaValar1: Where does Valandil play?
ArPharazonV: also AD, but he's not around much to my knowing
AriehnV: Argent Dawn and he uses Aeremethar a lot these days when he is online
ArPharazonV: those who are around should still be in the same channel, at least, though, so we can contact each other
AriehnV: but also Orophin, who is in the Valar guild and logs Valandile at times
VardaValar1: Okie dokie - sounds as if it's really not being worked with in Europe. Good that you can still shadow guild with the channel. : )
ArPharazonV: Orophin plays Valandile?
AriehnV: how if noone has time or interest to run that guild branch?
AriehnV: with never many of us around on that server ..
AriehnV: Orophin is Valandile s alt , his hunter
ArPharazonV: we can use the channel to keep in touch, that's all we can hope for at this point, I think
VardaValar1: Guess not that much real interest in Europe.
ArPharazonV: oh, sorry, I misinterpreted you
ArPharazonV: Orophin = Valandil..
AriehnV: :-)
AriehnV: i did try to recruit but no echo at all
VardaValar1: ok thanks. So are you guys going to transfer leadership again or disband or leave as is?
ArPharazonV: I thought you said Valandil was on Aeremethar and another one called Orophin played Valandile :-)
AriehnV: heehe no Valandile = Orophin = Aeremmethar
ArPharazonV: well, Arien and I both have a character in the top ranks of the guild, I'm not sure if she's transferred hers
AriehnV: i think we will leave it as it is , Varda
ArPharazonV: but aye, we can leave it as is
VardaValar1: Ok, thanks, Arien and Phar.
AriehnV: Arienwen is only one transferred
ArPharazonV: ok
VardaValar1: On to Lothar
AriehnV: the others are all there
VardaValar1: Eonwe, did you have a report?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
Eonwe Valar: Chldren's Week was this week, so like any noble Paladin, I took an orphan site-seeing.
Eonwe Valar: The Lower City likes me a little bit more for doing so, but not enough to sell me the fancy +str +int helm enchant I want, heh.
Eonwe Valar: In other news, Lothar is 86% towards having the alchemy lab completely set up.
VardaValar1: Hey! Is Children's Week over?
VardaValar1: How do you know when it's coming?
Eonwe Valar: I've seen a few members on in the time I did manage to have, namely Eowyn, BIlbo, Sauron, and Elwing.
Eonwe Valar: CHildren's Week should be until next Thursday.
Eonwe Valar: BLizzard has an Events calendar that lists all holiday's annual events. One sec and I'll get a link.
VardaValar1: o good. I'll head there for sure. : )
ArPharazonV: there are event calendars on the websites, aye
VardaValar1: Thanks.
AriehnV: oh aye , dont remind me of that , i have to run with my 19 hunter to the racetrack ...
Eonwe Valar: They also announce it on their Community Site when it happens, and again on the Forum.
ArPharazonV: been studying it this week,a ctually, since I have vague plans for the Darkmoon Faire faction :-)
Eonwe Valar: Their forum, that is, not our forum :}
Elwing V: goodie - I mostly miss Children's week - they're not very helpful just announcing it's "a week during the spring"...
ArPharazonV: already bought about 50 vibrant plumes to deliver.... should get me somewhere into friendly... whole reputation and turnin process is a bit vague with Darkmoon Faire...
Eonwe Valar: /calendar/
Elwing V: I got my cute white rat pet during that week last year :-)
ArPharazonV: I noticed it was Children's Week, but I'm skipping it.. maybe I'll go for it next year
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe.
ArPharazonV: too many loose ends in WoW to tie together to bother with an event
Eonwe Valar: Other than that, I've been trying to hunt down Thorium for my brother to help him get up to 300 Blacksmithing so he can start using all the Fel Iron he's been building up.
Eonwe Valar: When I've had time, of course.
Eonwe Valar: And I believe that does it for me.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe. : )
VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: We had a Valar instance run Saturday morning in Carn Dum that ran on well into the afternoon.
VardaValar1: Many quests and book epic work went down, and much fun was had.
VardaValar1: We had enough Valarites not only for the 6-man instance but for 2 or 3 to be on standby (including me).
VardaValar1: We found out that we can collect our best groups on weekend mornings, a bit of a surprise, quite nice.
VardaValar1: We've been having a lot of 6-man groupings running the new instance in the icy region of Forochel.
VardaValar1: and smaller numbers of course. : )
VardaValar1: Fishing has been popular. Fishing trophies abound in Valar.
VardaValar1: Free fishing poles from Varda have been going out, as I have mats.
VardaValar1: Varda's Fainan, pardon.
VardaValar1: Arien, you had some LotRO news?
AriehnV: yes indeed
AriehnV: on Wednesday or thursday I had a wee run through an instance in /rushhog bog
AriehnV: with Elenhaya, Menelvagors hunter
AriehnV: i still dont do names ;-)
AriehnV: it was about News from the North and some evil dwarves ..not black iron but the equivalent grin
AriehnV: we had no trouble dealing with them and the hill troll at the end
AriehnV: before that entertaining visit there was a good hunting of slugs
AriehnV: and gnats
AriehnV: and a bit crafting
AriehnV: so very nice indeed :-)
VardaValar1: Glad you had fun. : )
VardaValar1: Menel, do you have any comment to add?
VardaValar1: Guess not.

VardaValar1: On to Tolkien!
AriehnV: i think he fell asleep on the keyboard
VardaValar1: We have two ents with birthdays this month.
VardaValar1: *draws blanket over Menel*
VardaValar1: Must be tree month.
Elwing V: do ents celebrate begetting or birth or sprouting day?
VardaValar1: Fangorn has his May 25, and will be 55.
VardaValar1: Sprouting. : )
VardaValar1: Fladrif, like to tell about your birthday?
fladrifv: sure not many facts around it
fladrifv: the tenth of may
fladrifv: and you are all welcome :-)
ArPharazonV: (pardon my afkness, trying to locate an install cd)
ArPharazonV: congrats Flad!
VardaValar1: Not telling age? : )
VardaValar1: Not required. : )
fladrifv: 26 soon
AriehnV: enting :-D
VardaValar1: Happy upcoming 26'th Birthday, Fladrif!
Elwing V: barely out of his seed shell...
fladrifv: thanks
VardaValar1: On a similar branch,
fladrifv: hehe
fladrifv: I feel old is that enough? ;-)
VardaValar1: Fladrif found this wonderful cartoon, LotR
VardaValar1: I'll let you kids feel old, and I'll bounce around dancing and singing.
ArPharazonV: ok, I'm back, found it in the box of another game
ArPharazonV: heh... ents chat indeed...
ArPharazonV: will 60 years be enough?
fladrifv: they are optimistic!
AriehnV: *grins*
Elwing V: just saw it - that's about the truth of it! ;-)
VardaValar1: Very cute, thanks for sharing that chat, Fladrif. : )
fladrifv: youre welcome
VardaValar1: Figured it was you and Fangorn. : )
fladrifv: your local ent reporter
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: So Fladrif just barely managed to be a week older than me,..
VardaValar1: And Eonwe has an upcoming birthday on?
fladrifv: its a miraculous world
Eonwe Valar: 17th, one week after graduation, heh
VardaValar1: Congrats. : )
Elwing V: double celebration!
VardaValar1: So, growing out of today's various chats is our topic:
VardaValar1: Aging in Middle-earth.
VardaValar1: Every race in Middle-earth ages, although they may show it differently.
VardaValar1: How is it for each race that we can think of?
VardaValar1: Ents for a start. : )
AriehnV: wonder how long it would take them to publish an ent nespaper ... grins
ArPharazonV: ...not out of paper, I hope?
VardaValar1: How about, as in everything else they do, ents take a long time to age?
VardaValar1: Must be cloth pulp, from ent-wife gardens.
ArPharazonV: aging ents have been known to become... tree-ish if left alone
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: True, Phar. Keep Fladrif talking!
VardaValar1: Aiya Glorfindel. : )
Elwing V: some trees live an incredibly long time
Glorfindel VG: hoy
ArPharazonV: *shakes Fladrif's branches* stay with us!
fladrifv: yawn...
fladrifv: oh hello
fladrifv: ents do age but more in mind
VardaValar1: You can see it in their eyes too.
VardaValar1: Fangorn mentioned that he saw a difference from when the entwives were young and after they had aged.
VardaValar1: That infers that the ents also changed over time.
ArPharazonV: it strikes me that ents become slower and calmer as they age, while the entwives seem to have become more restless
VardaValar1: Interesting thought.
VardaValar1: The entwives made their gardens and taught agriculture to Men.
VardaValar1: But they did not leave until forced out. Their gardens then became the Brown Lands. The ents did not know to where they fled.
VardaValar1: I still think the Shire was likely. Fangorn even said the Entwives would like such a place.
VardaValar1: How about Dwarves? Do we know anything about their aging?
Menelvagor Valar: We know that they age like men.
ArPharazonV: Dwarves end up several hundred years old, meaning they are mortal but age slower than men
ArPharazonV: comparable to the Numenoreans, perhaps
Menelvagor Valar: They have lifespans closer to that of the Men of Numenor.
AriehnV: their beards grew .. and changed colour i think .. got white
fladrifv: aha gandalf the dwarf
VardaValar1: Aye, we know this from Gloin's arrival at Rivendell with his son, Gimli.
fladrifv: (sorry)
VardaValar1: (Eddas, Gandalf was a dwarf name. ;-)
ArPharazonV: *pats the tree and wipes off the moss from his hand*
VardaValar1: We know Bombur managed to get old and most amazingly fat. : )
Menelvagor Valar: And the description of King Dain II of Erebor in the appendix.
VardaValar1: Good, Menel.
fladrifv: weight is a good indicator of age normaly
Menelvagor Valar: He was close or over 250 years old, still very viable, even for a dwarf.
VardaValar1: *considers laying an axe to a tree*
fladrifv: *hides*
Menelvagor Valar: but his beard was long and there were creases of age all over his face.
VardaValar1: *reconsiders*
Menelvagor Valar: Which brings an interesting question... How does an ent "hide"?
fladrifv: becoming treeish works quite fine
AriehnV: camoflague
VardaValar1: Huorns put a darkness about themselves.
Menelvagor Valar: Yes, but that only works in numbers.
ArPharazonV: well, he might hide behind other trees
VardaValar1: Places in Fangorn Forest had a darkness.
AriehnV: well makes himself look like his surroundingfgs .. become a tree that doesnt move
Menelvagor Valar: An Ent cannot hide in the open any more than an eagle could in a clear sky.
ArPharazonV: one talks about not seeing the forest because of the trees... it might also be the other way around
fladrifv: arms up does the trick quite well
VardaValar1: hehe Flad. Bet that's right.
VardaValar1: Close your eyes and a Hobbit might climb you, thinking you're a tree.
Menelvagor Valar: Then again, Varda is a Vala, would she not know the difference between a tree and an Ent?
VardaValar1: We mean in general. : )
fladrifv: minor issues
Elwing V: they wouldn't want to hide from her :-)
VardaValar1: Fladrif knows I would never really hurt him. ; )
Menelvagor Valar: Fladrif knows Melkor wouldn't hurt a fly either *grin*
Menelvagor Valar: He's quite well-spoken actually *smile*
VardaValar1: Melkor-(Valar) is, at least. : )
Menelvagor Valar: Of course, Morgoth would not care whether he was tree or Ent, he'd cut him down anyways.
fladrifv: as you all know Im already wounded
VardaValar1: Ok, on to Men. They had different types.
Menelvagor Valar: Well, their lifespan depended on lineage for a great part.
AriehnV: ((patches up ent with sunlight))
Menelvagor Valar: and for some on certain... accesories...
VardaValar1: Nice shiny rings.
ArPharazonV: my lineage being a sparkling example of human history!
Menelvagor Valar: *harumphs*
Menelvagor Valar: But true nonetheless.
VardaValar1: Wonder if we can call being a wraith continuing lifetime? Maybe in a fashion.
Menelvagor Valar: There are 3 general distinctions.
VardaValar1: Pharazon the Golden Sparkler.
fladrifv: would call that the curse continues...being a wrath
Menelvagor Valar: Men of Numenor, or descendants therefrom, free Men of the West and "evil" Men of the South and East
VardaValar1: And we know that those 3 aging types are genetic, because if a Numenorean marries one of the "lesser" races, the children have shorter lifespans.
Elwing V: weren't they all long-lived to begin, but the ones that degenerated into "barbarian" lifestyles gradually also degenerated their number of years...
Menelvagor Valar: No.
Menelvagor Valar: The men from the East and South had shorter lifespans to begin with, never crossing the Misty Mountains or the Blue Mountains into the West and meeting the Elves inhabiting that place.
ArPharazonV: Beor died somewhat over 100 years old, I think, and he was considered old for his people
ArPharazonV: but that could just be because the rest tended to die in combat before reaching full age ;-)
Elwing V: so perhaps there was some marginal influence on Mens' lifespans from association with immortals
ArPharazonV: 93 he was when he died, actually, according to wiki, but that's but a shallow and perhaps inaccurate source
Menelvagor Valar: Well, the lifespan of the Numenoreans was a gift from the Valar to the Edain and Elros' people for aiding them in the War of Wrath.
Elwing V: war and lesser fights would always account for shorter lifespans :-) but under "peaceful" condition and without plagues or famine or the like...
Menelvagor Valar: Also, knowledge from the Elves, like medicine and better living conditions increased lifespans as well.
VardaValar1: As Menelvagor said, Numenoreans actually had a longer lifespan.
Elwing V: but from their first "awakening" would the ones who ended up in different areas have had much different? seems wrong one type would have been favored at that point
ArPharazonV: perhaps, having Elven blood in their veins helped as well, for the line of kings at least
VardaValar1: Numenoreans earned their favor.
Menelvagor Valar: And the Free Men of the West of course had slightly longer lifespans as their blood was mingled with those of Numenor, just as the reverse was opposite for Numenorean descendants.
Menelvagor Valar: A sword's edge cuts both ways so to speak.
ArPharazonV: the merger of bloodlines between Gondor and the Rohirrim did not help either for the numenorean lifespan :-)
ArPharazonV: well, I think it was before they became "Rohirrim" but you know what I mean
VardaValar1: The Men of Dol Amroth had a little elven blood from Nimrodel's maid. Legolas could tell it when looking at Prince Imrahil.
Menelvagor Valar: So subdistinctions can be made.
Menelvagor Valar: Within the Free Men of the West at least we know of those from Gondor, Rohan and Dol Amroth.
VardaValar1: Ok, on to Hobbits. What do we know about them and aging?
VardaValar1: We know they are a variant of human, with 3 main types.
Elwing V: I would think they come close to the same manner as dwarves; they certainly get rounder as they get older!
VardaValar1: Tolkien tended to divide all his races into 3 types. : )
fladrifv: tall round square?
Menelvagor Valar: Stoors, Fallohides and one I cannot remember off the top of my hat.
VardaValar1: hehe - that too.
ArPharazonV: Harfoots
Elwing V: well Pip and Merry got taller after drinking entdraught!
VardaValar1: Sam was of that third type, Harfoot.
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: Humanish, Dwarfish, Elvish if I recall :-)
VardaValar1: Humans were divided into 3 Houses.
VardaValar1: Elves came in three types.
ArPharazonV: Hobbits came in three types.
VardaValar1: Hobbits came in three types.
VardaValar1: hehe - aye.
ArPharazonV: Dwarves came in 7 types...
ArPharazonV: but we only know 3 :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Yes, but they were not created by Iluvatar, but by a Valar.
Menelvagor Valar: Vala*
ArPharazonV: well, 3's a good number, story-wise
VardaValar1: Some hobbits lived to great age, such as the Old Took.
VardaValar1: It's also a special number in Celtic story-telling.
VardaValar1: We know hobbits aged much like people.
AriehnV: hobbits are people i would think :-)
ArPharazonV: Varda means big people!
VardaValar1: Aye, a variant of human.
VardaValar1: Sorry, Big People. : )
VardaValar1: Poor word choice. I apologize, especially to my brother, Meriadoc.
VardaValar1: I need to tell some Membership news out of order.
ArPharazonV: they still tended to get a bit older than big folk
ArPharazonV: could be the healthy country lifestyle
VardaValar1: Fladrif will be unavailable for a while as he is moving into a new house.
fladrifv: namarie all, till next month or so
ArPharazonV: Namarie Fladrif! Good luck with the move
VardaValar1: He hopes they will fix internet soon.
fladrifv: any volenteers willing to help renovating?
VardaValar1: We'll miss your quick wit and slow moves. : )
AriehnV: Namarie Flad ! and be safe , dont break any branches
VardaValar1: Paying travel expense?
fladrifv: to offer nice holiday in sweden including food excluding flights
ArPharazonV: it could also be, as a dwarf in the Discworld series neatly pointed out, that dwarves and hobbits live longer for because they're shorter and thus have less trouble pumping blood to their heads
VardaValar1: Hey, that actually sounds good!
ArPharazonV: and if I could, I'd come over, but I'll have my hands full in the next few months :-)
VardaValar1: Phar, I like that one. : )
VardaValar1: Good explanation.
VardaValar1: More membership news, can't imagine how it was left out.
VardaValar1: Gimli-(V) was married yesterday.
ArPharazonV: congratulations!
fladrifv: congrats!
VardaValar1: Sauron-(Valar) was the usher on his side.
ArPharazonV: I thought he'd never settle for anyone else but the lady of Lorien? :-)
VardaValar1: Eowyn-(V) and Varda-(Valar) attended and bore gifts, as did Sauron.
VardaValar1: She is blonde... : )
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: obviously ;-)
VardaValar1: and slender.
ArPharazonV: hmhm
ArPharazonV: and twice as tall?
VardaValar1: There the problem is. Gimli is built like a dwarf, but very tall and smiles a lot.
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Big booming laugh, as one would hope from a dwarf.
VardaValar1: He's quite a powerhouse and tall.
VardaValar1: and square. : )
VardaValar1: He hopes to be moving into his new house a street over from ours. : )
ArPharazonV: reminds me of Corporal Carrot in the discworld series I'm reading right now, a man raised by dwarves but over 6 feet tall and built like... well, a carrot
Elwing V: A dwarf giant :-)
ArPharazonV: very goodnatured, too :-)
ArPharazonV: considers himself still technically a dwarf
AriehnV: congrats Gimli :-D
Elwing V: and Mrs. Gimli
VardaValar1: Beautiful wedding. : ) *sniffle*
ArPharazonV: good, good.. like a Valar-guild wedding should be?
VardaValar1: He wore a white suit. Went well with her white dress, long train. One of the prettiest wedding dresses I've seen.
VardaValar1: Ok, I'll stop. : )
VardaValar1: We were on aging.
Menelvagor Valar: Why stop? It sounds so nice :-)
ArPharazonV: hmm... is he perhaps like that character from Harry Potter?
VardaValar1: It was really nice. : )
ArPharazonV: what's his name.. Hagrid or something?
Elwing V: not quite so...furry
VardaValar1: Aye, Hagrid, but Gimli keeps his beard trimmed short. : )
ArPharazonV: ah :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Hagrid is a half-giant, not a giant dwarf *grin*
Menelvagor Valar: big difference there :-D
ArPharazonV: could've fooled me :-)
VardaValar1: Gimli has lighter hair, too. Not red though.
VardaValar1: Anyway, back on topic. : )
VardaValar1: Elves were the last race I was going to bring up tonight.
Elwing V: oh, right, about the half-elves that choose mortality? I'm thinking of Arwen for the most part...
VardaValar1: Also three types: Noldor, Silvan, Teleri/Sindar
Elwing V: she was still clear of eye and all that when Elessar died...
VardaValar1: Arwen chose to lay herself down and die, didn't have a chance to experience much aging.
VardaValar1: She was not nearly ready to die.
Elwing V: if it hadn't been for her grief, could she have remained around to see her 4-5 great grandkids grow up?
Elwing V: 4-5 greats...not kids :-)
VardaValar1: She probably would have lived quite a long time.
VardaValar1: But in regular elves, aging left signs as well.
ArPharazonV: I suppose battle scars would add up over the years..
VardaValar1: Their spirits began to show more and more through their bodies, so on the other side they looked ever brighter.
AriehnV: they got weary of the world and there was a depth in their eyes
Menelvagor Valar: a well of unfathomable knowledge it seemed to mortal races.
VardaValar1: Aye, enormous knowledge and experience.
VardaValar1: With a long time in the same body, their movements were very graceful and controlled. They could probably be very still.
AriehnV: knowledge when a good time has come to an end and experience the softness of matress, pillows and blankets>?
VardaValar1: Aye, this is our ending bit.
VardaValar1: The sun is going down, and likewise we shall end. : )
VardaValar1: Good night.

After-meeting: (Tolkien continued)
Elwing V: they were supposed to have excellent memories, so over their long lives, they must have used most of their brain, as opposed to the small % Men do
AriehnV: Good night , dear friends :-)
Elwing V: pleasant dreams
Menelvagor Valar: (This surely has been one of the most productive Tolkien chats I've seen in a long while.)
VardaValar1: The elves had a system of sleep that was a working of memories, under their own control.
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Arien
AriehnV: (agrees) Namarie all
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: They could walk normally while doing dreamlike memories to rest.
VardaValar1: This had to help with their memory ability.
Elwing V: so for Elves, sleepwalking was a normal and safe thing to do :-)
VardaValar1: hehe - you could say that indeed!
VardaValar1: I am not sure how much they did that.
VardaValar1: It might have been more often when they had little opportunity to rest safely.
VardaValar1: Notice that Legolas tended to sleep when Gandalf was around, but less when he was not.
Elwing V: I think some of the Elves "sleep" habits must have been because they loved the stars so much - how could they close their eyes and miss so much of the night? :-)
VardaValar1: Good point
VardaValar1: They started the night singing when Valacirca rose over the horizon.
VardaValar1: They were Awakened under stars and may have been best adapted for that.
Menelvagor Valar: Or just have fond memories.
VardaValar1: This ability to do waking sleep would help them age well, keeping memories sharp.
VardaValar1: True, Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: Not that all that many of the earliest Elves were still around.
Menelvagor Valar: Only Cirdan that we truely know of.
Menelvagor Valar: truly*
VardaValar1: Cirdan was an odd one in a lot of ways. He could nearly have his own topic. : )
Menelvagor Valar: beard!
Menelvagor Valar: Narya!
Elwing V: maybe he had a drop of dwarf blood ;-)
VardaValar1: Not likely. : )
ArPharazonV: Yes, Dwarves tended to keep to themselves, bloodwise
ArPharazonV: hard to see them pairing up with other races
Menelvagor Valar: I don't think Aule went down to where the Dwarves were cryogenically suspended to draw a bit of blood, then to sneak off to Cuivienen to inject some into Cirdan *grin*
ArPharazonV: only comparable size would probably be hobbits... and I do not want to go into that
Elwing V: made one of the mysterious blue wizards angry and that was the revenge..
Menelvagor Valar: and without being seen by them either :-)
VardaValar1: This is getting off-topic, so we could switch to After-meeting? : )
VardaValar1: Aging in Middle-earth.
Menelvagor Valar: I think we have handled just about everything, evil races not counted.
ArPharazonV: what do we know of Orcs?
Elwing V: once the ishtar [note: Istari]  took on human form, did they continue to age? they looked old to begin with, didn't they?
ArPharazonV: I think they did age, but not a lot
Menelvagor Valar: they ages much slower, aye.
VardaValar1: Istari? They aged slightly, partly as camouflage.
Menelvagor Valar: aged*
VardaValar1: But they were Maiar, and their real forms could be anything that went with their spirits/fear.
Elwing V: orcs were originally elves, but possibly the damage to the pure spirit also affected their lifespan; no longer immortal I would think
Menelvagor Valar: It is said Orcs were originally elves, though no fact of it is ever given.
ArPharazonV: looking at names out of the Orc-Dwarf wars, it would seem generations matched up nicely, doesn't mean they lived to the same age though
ArPharazonV: it is also possible that different types (from goblins to Uruks) lived to different ages
VardaValar1: Uruks were crossed with men, so they were different.
VardaValar1: Uruks were less troubled by light, stronger. Perhaps hybrid vigor. But they could not be immortal.
ArPharazonV: but I should go
Elwing V: Saruman may not have wanted them around after their initial use...might worry they'd turn on him if nothing/no one else to war with :p
[end of Tolkien chat]

ArPharazonV: I'll save and send
ArPharazonV: saved
VardaValar1: Good night, Phar. : )
VardaValar1: Elwing, forgive me, but I'm hungry and going to skip out to raid the fridge with Eowyn. : )
Elwing V: np, I'm starting to get tummy rumbles too :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you for your story writing and coming here today!
Elwing V: glad I could make it!
Menelvagor Valar: We could still continue the tolkien discussion without Varda though :-)
VardaValar1: Elwing is in my time zone and also is late for supper. ;-)
ArPharazonV: hmm, installed Guild Wars tonight on my new harddisk, that was the cd I couldn't find (it was in my Warcraft 3 box), I made a new character, ranger
ArPharazonV: so I might get back into it in the near future
VardaValar1: Congrats! : )
Menelvagor Valar: I guess we have pretty much made it into after-meeting then :-)
ArPharazonV: also grabbed the manuals from the box, will be reading them again over the next few days, see if I can get back into the story
Menelvagor Valar: I do not think I heard a gavel though *surreptitiously hands Varda the Gavel*
VardaValar1: *gavel*
VardaValar1: I was trying to gavel it when Arien left. : )
Menelvagor Valar: Unfortunately, we seemed to pick up the discussion again right then *grin*
Menelvagor Valar: or fortunately :-)
ArPharazonV: the transcript be sent!
VardaValar1: np - was fun
VardaValar1: Thanky! Arrr
ArPharazonV: it was
Glorfindel VG has left the room.
Elwing V: I'm off to a fridge raid also...namarie all!
Elwing V has left the room.
VardaValar1: Namarie. :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie all!