May 25, 2008 Transcript of the Meeting of the Valar Guild

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."

Eonwe Valar: Heya

Eonwe Valar: Welcome back

Eonwe Valar: Afk for a moment.

Eonwe Valar: back
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe :-)

Eonwe Valar: Heya. I was beginning to wonder if something was wrong here, us being the only two here at meeting time and all.

MJKeenan1234 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Heya :-)

AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Hi Arien
AriehnV: Aiya all

Eonwe Valar: Heya Oropher and Arien.

Eonwe Valar: Looks like you stopped in at a good time Oropher. There's a question mark by your name on the Membership page :}
VardaValar1: Luckily I've been having computer problems so the yearly drops aren't really done yet. : )

Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: This computer doesn't have much installed yet, put the new AIM on just a few minutes ago.

MJKeenan1234: hi, i'll probably be a bit distant, im trying to play age of conan, emphasis on trying as my computer doesn't run it very well
VardaValar1: ouch
VardaValar1: Would like to hear what you think of the game.

Eonwe Valar: Yeah, I've heard people have had problems with that.

Eonwe Valar: It's not a family friendly game, so I doubt we'd be setting up camp there, Varda :}
VardaValar1: I've had an offer for a buddy key, wondering whether to try it.

MJKeenan1234: its a visually stunning game, and if you don't mind the mature themes present and a lot of the gore, its generally a rather enjoyable game. It has a really nice combat system and leveling is fast and easy
VardaValar1: Sounds like they made a real alternative, instead of a clone, at least.

MJKeenan1234: in some ways it is very similar to wow
VardaValar1: This is the new AIM, not sure if it will invite properly for folks on the old one.

MJKeenan1234: but the combat is very different, and at times it plays like a single player game

Eonwe Valar: I sent an invite out to everyone on my list.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe.

MJKeenan1234: it actually has a single player mode
VardaValar1: Oropher, as in it has the same set-up for keys and vendors pretty much?

Eonwe Valar: I've heard alot of Age of Conan is instanced.
VardaValar1: That sounds more like Lord of the Rings Online. :-) Lots of instancing there.
VardaValar1: Oropher, have you tried LotRO yet?

MJKeenan1234: pretty much

Eonwe Valar: Even moreseo from what I hear. As in if a city has a certain number of people, anyone else entering enter a new instance of the city.

MJKeenan1234: no need for repairs etc

MJKeenan1234: I tried LOTRO a little bit
VardaValar1: If it's been a while, it's probably changed a lot for you.

MJKeenan1234: I was going to take it up but the friends who started both quit and I remembered the leveling process takes a while
VardaValar1: You can join Valar on Landroval, lots of friends that way. : )

MJKeenan1234: the game is heavily instanced, and they have really good voice actors for npcs, its pretty remarkable for an mmo

Eonwe Valar: We're going to give it a couple more minutes to see if anyone else stumbles in, then we'll begin.

MJKeenan1234: yea I might, I need to see what my roomate wants to do, hes thinking of warhammer online, and I might get him in AoC, but if neither have any staying power we probably will go back to wow
VardaValar1: We still play on Lothar in WoW.

MJKeenan1234: as alliance correct?
VardaValar1: Fangorn says Turin is trying to come to the AIM meeting, having problems.
VardaValar1: Lothar for Alliance, Uldaman for Horde.

Eonwe Valar: Don't suppose it's anything we can help Turin with.
VardaValar1: I'm trying to find out.
VardaValar1: The WoW players are upstairs and I'm downstairs. : )

Eonwe Valar: Hehe, funny how that works out :}

Eonwe Valar: Ok, I'm going to go ahead and begin the meeting.
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Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!

Eonwe Valar: Membership:

Eonwe Valar: Varda's back :}

Eonwe Valar: Fangorn is back as well, which works out, since Varda and Fangorn were gone together :}
VardaValar1: Turin left before I made it upstairs

Eonwe Valar: Pharazon is probably in Spain by now :}
VardaValar1: *waves* Glad to be back.

Eonwe Valar: Finrod got back from Iraw last week, right before the meeting and even came in :}
VardaValar1: Hellos from Fangorn, Sauron (back from college), Eowyn, and Bilbo. : )

TH0R0NGIL has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Yay!

Eonwe Valar: And there Finrod is :}
TH0R0NGIL: :-)

Eonwe Valar: Iraw = Iraq
VardaValar1: Aiya Finrod!
TH0R0NGIL: hey Varda!
TH0R0NGIL: how've you been?
VardaValar1: Really well. How long are you back for?
TH0R0NGIL: a while
TH0R0NGIL: at least a year
VardaValar1: That's great!
VardaValar1: Think you'll be up to any gaming or Tolkien site stuff or more meetings? : )
VardaValar1: Maybe you'll know later. : )
VardaValar1: Another member info, Fangorn's birthday is today. His cake is cooling at the moment.

Eonwe Valar: Any other Membership news?
VardaValar1: He's 55 today.

Eonwe Valar: Happy Birthday to Fangorn :}

Eonwe Valar: What a young tree :}

MJKeenan1234: happy birthday
VardaValar1: hehe
AriehnV: Happy Birthday Fangorn :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks folks. :-)
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Eonwe Valar: Ok, Web news:

Eonwe Valar: Nothing to mention yet for me.
VardaValar1: On the Tolkien Site,
VardaValar1: we have a bit of a backlog.
VardaValar1: My fault, as my previous computer is no longer in use, and I'm trying to transfer all files to this one.
VardaValar1: Hard to do when not home.
VardaValar1: I'll be gone again tomorrow, but hope to be back after that and get the files transferred.
VardaValar1: Also, Alatar warned us that we may be shifting to a new server soon.
VardaValar1: That means new passwords for all of us who upload directly, and that we had better backup files in case of mishaps.
VardaValar1: Most of the backlog is in the Story section.
VardaValar1: I also hope to be getting the Membership page set up to show who is still with us.
VardaValar1: Sorry for the long delay, but it's helped some folks. ;-)
VardaValar1: That's all my web news.

Eonwe Valar: Thanks Varda.
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Eonwe Valar: Gaming News:

Eonwe Valar: Starcraft 2: Info on the Baneling now up on the Zerg page.

Eonwe Valar: World of Warcraft: General:

Eonwe Valar: Alot of new info for the Wrath of the Lich King expansion was released a couple of weeks ago.

Eonwe Valar: Among them, what I thought particularly interesting was the decision to make 10-man and 25-man version of all the instances in the up-coming expansion.

Eonwe Valar: More info released on the areas, some factions, and the Death Knight as well, of course :}

Eonwe Valar: Questing: Lothar:

Eonwe Valar: Turin and I (and Elwing if she's able to) plan on delving into Blackrock Depths after the meeting. If you have a char in the 50ish or above area in the Guild on Lothar, here's your chance to get done with Blackrock Dpeths :}

Eonwe Valar: There's been a bit of grouping, but nothing major that jumps to mind.

Eonwe Valar: Uldaman: No report from there.

Eonwe Valar: LotRO:
VardaValar1: Lothar:

Eonwe Valar: Pardon. Go ahead Varda.
VardaValar1: We have a bunch of my family playing there, on off and on all during the week.
VardaValar1: That's all for now.

Eonwe Valar: LotRO:

OrodrethV has entered the room.

Oessala has entered the room.

Pallando Valar has entered the room.
Pallando Valar: Aiya, me!
VardaValar1: Aiya Pallando : )

Eonwe Valar: I believe there was some high-level stuff going on this week.
AriehnV: aiya there :-)
VardaValar1: LotRO usually has high level stuff goingon. : )

Eonwe Valar: Early this morning, I know Irmo was doing a Rep instance in the Barrow Downs, because I crossed paths with him in the Barrow Downs while looking to complete a quest of my own and finally l:}

Eonwe Valar: *finally levelled to 18.
AriehnV: grats :-)
Pallando Valar: grats. :-)

Eonwe Valar: Thanks :} I've only been sitting on 17 for most of the last year :}

Eonwe Valar: My fault, not the game's I assure you :}

fladrifv has entered the room.
Pallando Valar: I miss Eve. <.<
fladrifv: *wave*
Pallando Valar: Haven't been able to play since end of March..

Eonwe Valar: Anyone do anything besides WoW and LotRO?
fladrifv: chess!

Eonwe Valar: And heya to Pallando and Fladrif :}
fladrifv: do non computer games also count?
Pallando Valar: I've been in War3/TFT this week, burning time.

Eonwe Valar: Depends on how long a list you're going to pull out :}
Pallando Valar: Some TF2, as well.
VardaValar1: Oh, well then, I got home into the middle of a big D&D tabletop game run by Sauron-Valar. : )

MJKeenan1234: I play tf2, age of conan, and warcraft 3 generally. I occasionally also play rainbow 6 vegas 2 with some friends and a few other games off and on

Eonwe Valar: Typically it should probably be computer games,.. then again if you're going to start chess by mail with guild members,.. :}
VardaValar1: Or like Arwen and Eowyn play double Solitaire online together. : )

Eonwe Valar: hehe

Eonwe Valar: Ok ladies and gentlemen, time to whisper me a Tolkien topic :}

Eonwe Valar: Did everyone do their homework assignment from last week? :}
OrodrethV: Oh, I know I missed member news, but this is my last meeting for um..3 months. at least. Tuesday I'll be in san diego for boot camp.

Eonwe Valar: Thanks for mentioning that, Pallando.

Eonwe Valar: Take care at Boot Camp :}

Eonwe Valar: Sempi Fi :}
VardaValar1: Semper fi?

Eonwe Valar: *Smper Fi, bah.

Eonwe Valar: Bah, my keyboard is eating my alphabet.

Eonwe Valar: Semper Fi
VardaValar1: Glad you could drop in, Pallando. : )
TH0R0NGIL: bah....Marines....:-P
VardaValar1: One of the marine members of our D&D game was back last night, great fun at the game.

Eonwe Valar: Marines are good people :} I know marines :}
AriehnV: Take care Orodreth
TH0R0NGIL: Uncle Sam's Misguided Children
OrodrethV: Interestingly enough, at some point I'll be in Texas, sometime next year, so I may try and say hi, depending..
VardaValar1: That would be cool. :-)

Eonwe Valar: Now now, no military branch rivalry please :}
VardaValar1: Menelvagor is hoping to be in Texas this summer.
TH0R0NGIL: haha i am only kidding
TH0R0NGIL: I know some good marines
VardaValar1: Suppose they had military branch rivalry of some sort in Middle-earth? They might also be kidding around, like Gimli and Legolas.
TH0R0NGIL: yeah

Eonwe Valar: Hmm, Tower guard vs the everyday soldier?
TH0R0NGIL: what she said
TH0R0NGIL: :-P

Eonwe Valar: Tower Guard vs the Ithilien Rangers?
VardaValar1: Aye. And the guardians of the White Tree, who did not answer to the Steward of Gondor.
VardaValar1: Rangers, as guerrilla fighters, vs the regulars? Boromir vs Faramir kidding around?
TH0R0NGIL: lol
VardaValar1: Bound to have been a lot of that kind of thing that was not reported as irrelevant to the Ring story.
VardaValar1: In medieval times, archers were considered cowards or cheaters because they fought long distance instead of toe-to-toe. Hard to guard against.

Eonwe Valar: I can understand why people would think that :}

Eonwe Valar: They had to be pretty strong to use those bows though.
VardaValar1: Then there were charges by cavalry, like Rohan.
TH0R0NGIL: that was more crossbowmen...
VardaValar1: Aye, and the ones shooting from horseback had to be really good.

MJKeenan1234: you also have to factor in the knighthood/aristocracy vs the merchant/peasant conscripted soldiers, as well as the navy and the naval guards or marine forces :p
TH0R0NGIL: they didn't even have to be strong

Eonwe Valar: Crossbowmen didn't have to be strong, aye.
VardaValar1: Navy, Numenoreans.
TH0R0NGIL: also just about everyone was strong back then, so many people worked with their hands
VardaValar1: True, not much chance to be a couch potato in Middle-earth times.

MJKeenan1234: however a crossbow user required little actual training
VardaValar1: Do they mention what type of bows were used in Middle-earth? I know for sure JRRT said Legolas used a powerful warbow.

Eonwe Valar: Aye. Just turn this, put arrow in slot, fire.

MJKeenan1234: as such, they would be looked down on by more conventional knights for that reason. They could also be conscripted from the lowest class in a feudal society and that caused even more reasons for them to be looked down on
VardaValar1: Hobbit archers weren't even mentioned in the histories. : ) Aye.

Eonwe Valar: I don't imagine crossbows were used, at least not by the free peoples.
VardaValar1: Paris in Troy was looked down on for using a bow, although he was also excellent with a sword.
TH0R0NGIL: crossbows weren't really needed
TH0R0NGIL: they are for piercing armor
VardaValar1: Gondorians had armor.
TH0R0NGIL: and not too many people in middle earth had armor but Gondor

Eonwe Valar: I don't get the feeling they were used by Saruman/Sauron either, but seems more likely something they'd employ.

Eonwe Valar: Dwarves had Armor.

MJKeenan1234: thats because in the greek armies, it was the slaves, servants and squire types that used range combat, men carried the hoplon spear and wore the armor

Eonwe Valar: Elves had armor.
VardaValar1: Dwarves helped with armor for elves.
TH0R0NGIL: yes
TH0R0NGIL: but mostly mail
TH0R0NGIL: not plate

MJKeenan1234: I could see saruman using crossbows, tolkien made a big deal at his love of industry and the crossbow is an item one could see as being maybe the start of industry
VardaValar1: Dwarves had armor for their faces that withstood dragon fire.
VardaValar1: Aye, Oropher.
TH0R0NGIL: true
VardaValar1: The Sindarin and Silvan elves may not have had plate.
VardaValar1: Noldor seemed to have had it.
AriehnV: They were taught by Aule himself
TH0R0NGIL: yes

Eonwe Valar: Dwarves seemed to work with mail mostly, since they're so good at it. Mail so Intricate it's hard to tell it is mail links.
AriehnV: and they were keen on learning about metal .. so they would have been eager to learn new smithing techniques
AriehnV: aye even from Dwarves

Eonwe Valar: Recalling descriptions of Dwarf work from the Sil, and also the mithril coat Frodo wore.

Eonwe Valar: Aye, Noldor and Dwarves got along better together than Dwarves did with other Elves, due to their mutual repsect/reverence for Aulë.
VardaValar1: Both were crafter types.

MJKeenan1234: I also would imagine most dwarves would prefer the mobility of mail over plate, considering they already have rather small legs and hindering their already size based limited movement would make them weaker

MJKeenan1234: since an orc can already out range a dwarf just from size

Eonwe Valar: True.

Eonwe Valar: They were able to make their armor quite light but durable as well.

Eonwe Valar: And it doesn't rust :}
TH0R0NGIL: some dwarves wore plate, at least the frame of the armor

MJKeenan1234: well its hard to imagine a fedual lord or king not wearing the most protective armor possible, however the rank and file likely would not
TH0R0NGIL: because Dain was killed by a blow to his collar, which broke his neck

Eonwe Valar: Dwarves seem as a race to be a crafter race, since information on Dwarves gleaned from the HoME series suggest their relationship with humans came about through the desire for food and other such things without the need to put their
VardaValar1: Looking in Two Towers, "The King of the Golden Hall", they provided Aragorn and Legolas with shining mail, helms, and shields.

Eonwe Valar: So more than likely any Dwarf would be wearing good armor made by himself if not by anscestors.
VardaValar1: Aye, says Gimli's was better than what the Gondorians had, but he took a cap and shield.

Eonwe Valar: *put their craftwork aside. Pardon, didn't realize it cut me off there.
VardaValar1: cap of iron and leather.
VardaValar1: Gimli's shield had belonged to Theoden when he was a boy.

Eonwe Valar: Since Dwarves could trade their goods, which were already superior to what the early human societies had, for food, they were able to further perfect their craft.
VardaValar1: The mail coats were gifts from Gondor, not from the Rohirrim.

Eonwe Valar: Worked out nicely for both, especially in defense against invading orcs and whatnot.
TH0R0NGIL: i highly doubt the Rohirrim wore much heavy armor, they would have preferred mobility
VardaValar1: Aye.

Eonwe Valar: The cavalry at least.
TH0R0NGIL: pretty much their whole army was cavalry...
VardaValar1: The dwarves helped Thingol with armor and weapons when orcs first started invading.
VardaValar1: Sauron didn't have much in the way of cavalry.
VardaValar1: Might be one reason he wanted the Haradrim, for their mumakil.
VardaValar1: I wonder if camels would have eventually shown up.

Eonwe Valar: Camels woulnd'tbe be very imposing. Think that would be a last measure :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Camels are taller than horses.
TH0R0NGIL: some are
TH0R0NGIL: but not by much
TH0R0NGIL: i just saw lots of camels in iraq
TH0R0NGIL: they are very slightly taller, but they are also smaller and narrower than horses
VardaValar1: Thanks. I had the mistaken impression they were a good bit taller.

MJKeenan1234: there are also desert horses, worg rider, and umber and the southerners might have had horsemen as well
fladrifv: namarie
AriehnV: but a heck more incomfortable to ride by all accounts
AriehnV: Namarie
TH0R0NGIL: they look taller cause they are thin
VardaValar1: Namarie Arien and Fladrif.
VardaValar1: Warg riders, right!

Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
VardaValar1: Are the Iraqi camels 1 humped or two? : )

AriehnV has left the room.

fladrifv has left the room.
TH0R0NGIL: 1
VardaValar1: Thanks
TH0R0NGIL: i think the 2 hump ones might be larger
TH0R0NGIL: but i'm not sure
VardaValar1: Don't get to see much of the Iraqi camels on TV.
VardaValar1: Valar meetings can be educational. ;-)
VardaValar1: I need to go put icing on the cake and finish up the side dishes to go with the roast for Fangorn's birthday party.
VardaValar1: But he loves WoW, so you may be seeing us on there afterwards.
VardaValar1: Fangorn, Sauron, Turin, and Eowyn have been on today already. : )

Eonwe Valar: Seems We've trickled off. Pardon, I was trying to find someting in the books and didn't come across it yet.
VardaValar1: What was it?
VardaValar1: (I'll sneak into LotRO first chance.)

Eonwe Valar: I remember Rohan having some infantry. Trying to see if it was just unhorsed riders or actual infantry.

MJKeenan1234: try a chapter or two before helms deep

MJKeenan1234: I think most of the people garisoned there were unhorsed riders but I would imagine it hard to field an entire military with no infantry whatsoever
VardaValar1: True.
VardaValar1: The hard ride to Gondor was a special case.
VardaValar1: afk, will scroll.

Eonwe Valar: Can't find it before Helm's Deep.

Eonwe Valar: I'll have to look for it later I suppose.

Eonwe Valar: For now, I think I'll..

Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*
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Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting. Feel free to hang around and chat :}

Eonwe Valar: I must go afk for a moment.

MJKeenan1234 has left the room.

Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya

Eonwe Valar: back

Eonwe Valar: Heya Menel.

Eonwe Valar: We're in Aftermeeting.
Menelvagor Valar: Welcome back.
Menelvagor Valar: So I gathered from the lack of response *grin*

Eonwe Valar: Hehe
Menelvagor Valar: Did you receive my email?

Eonwe Valar: The one about your schedule?
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.

Eonwe Valar: Aye, but I haven't had a chance to look at it. It's been a busy week for me.
Menelvagor Valar: Could you try and do it this week? I know I was a bit late in getting that schedule up myself, but time is starting to become an issue if I want to get the plane tickets on time.

Eonwe Valar: ok
Menelvagor Valar: Thanks!

Eonwe Valar: NP. I'll try to make a point to sit down tomorrow and look at it.
Menelvagor Valar: Much appreciated.
Menelvagor Valar: I have to get some news from several other people as well before I can finalize the schedule though.

Eonwe Valar: As long as I'm not the only one :}
Menelvagor Valar: Nah, I have some stuff already figured, and most people I can call if I can't get a response.
Menelvagor Valar: The people I definitely need a response from are Varda and Lungorthin, everyone else I can call.

Menelvagor Valar has left the room.

TH0R0NGIL has left the room.
VardaValar1: back
VardaValar1: Sounds like I'd better check the email. :-)

Eonwe Valar: Welcome back :}
VardaValar1: lot of mail
VardaValar1: family calling, cheerio

Eonwe Valar: Enjoy :}
VardaValar1: They said they wanted a lethally chocolate cake.
VardaValar1: I think I delivered. ;-)

Eonwe Valar: hehehe
VardaValar1: Turin's AIM name is liebs402
VardaValar1: I'm off. Have a great night, Eonwe and Pallando. :-)

VardaValar1 has left the room.

Eonwe Valar: I'm going to go ahead and log out for the night. Take care Pallando.

Eonwe Valar: Take care during basic training.
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Valar Guild

May 25, 2008 Meeting