Valar Guild

March 16, 2008 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (8)
    ArathornValar, AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, Gil-galad-(V)/Xseanzee disco, ThainPaladinTook, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Lots of gaming :)
    LotRO: Rift run starts Friday 9pm ESDT
    Topic: Were stones starting to come to a form of speaking life as the trees had, because of the elves?
    Topic: General concept of using and shaping versus harmony with, and examples.
    included Topic: Teamwork that allows for individual brilliance. Examples.
    Topic: What JRRT said would have happened if Frodo had kept the Ring despite Gollum. (This has to do with teamwork preventing original brilliance from destroying itself.) Gollum saved Frodo, not the world.
    StarCraft talk

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Pharazon :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: just AVing a bit, working on my alliance rep
VardaValar1: Half an hour early and you still beat me here. :-)
VardaValar1: Have at it!
ArPharazonV: I was an hour ;-)
VardaValar1: *chuckles*
ArPharazonV: of course, now they have the aid station, and I can't get back there to deliver stuff anymore... so this particular AV is no longer productive
VardaValar1: oops
ArPharazonV: still, I got 4k rep today from AVs, 1k for each faction I'm not exalted with yet
ArPharazonV: so it's been a good day
VardaValar1: cool!
ArPharazonV: so it shouldn't be more than a few weeks until I start hitting exalted in mass :-)
VardaValar1: Retesting Paladin, who is back. He's passing nicely so far. :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, nice
ArPharazonV: I think I remember him...
VardaValar1: ThainPaladinTook on AIM for your friend list
VardaValar1: Married with baby on the way and 2 full time jobs. Rough!
ArPharazonV: 2 full time jobs.. I assume him and the mrs?
ArPharazonV: and not just him?
VardaValar1: He has 2 full time
ArPharazonV: 80 hours a week? how does one survive that...
ArPharazonV: that's basically half the week, includig nights...
VardaValar1: My brother used to work longer hours than that, wound up in the hospital from overwork.
VardaValar1: He hopes to slow down after the baby is born.
ArPharazonV: ah, ok
ArPharazonV: well, I finished the game Outpost 2 today... I think I'll be running through the Starcraft campaigns starting next week
VardaValar1: That should keep you busy. : )
ArPharazonV: well, I'm also doing WoW :-)
ArPharazonV: few dailies, some repgathering
ArPharazonV: so I'll be taking my time
VardaValar1: Fun : )
ArPharazonV: I'm also downloading a few old games called War Wind and War Wind 2, warcraft 2 style RTS-games
VardaValar1: fun
ArPharazonV: played the first one years ago, was quite nice
VardaValar1: Paladin Took passed his rejoin. : )
ArPharazonV: I hope to go play those again when I'm done with Starcraft ;-)
ArPharazonV: oh, congrats!
VardaValar1: He says he is not seeing the invitation.
VardaValar1: Can you invite ThainPaladinTook?
ArPharazonV: I'll give it a shot
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad : )
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif : )
ArPharazonV: I invited him, I guess he's not seeing it?
Xseanzee disco: heya :-)
VardaValar1: aye, he can't seee it
VardaValar1: He has the new AIM and we have the old.
VardaValar1: That may be a problem for others too.
VardaValar1: Flad and Gil, do either of you have a fairly new version of AIM?
ArPharazonV: we have the old :-)
ArathornValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arathorn : )
ArathornValar: Aiya
fladrifv: Aiya
ArathornValar: ha.. I was just trying to figure out how to join the meeting since getting my new PC and you popped up an invite :-D
VardaValar1: He says it times out when he invites himself
VardaValar1: He's going back to the old version now.
VardaValar1: This means others with the new version may not be able to see invites. : (
VardaValar1: Always glad to be of service. : )
VardaValar1: Put your name on your friend list and invite yourself to Valar Guild Meetingplace.
ThainPaladinTook has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Yay! It worked!
ThainPaladinTook: stupid upgrade

Meeting begins, kind of.
Membership starts, kind of.
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Paladin : )
ThainPaladinTook: :-)
VardaValar1: Aye, I chucked mine too.
ThainPaladinTook: Aiya all
VardaValar1: Paladin just passed his rejoin test with flying colors. : )
VardaValar1: These people all went afk, try to forgive them. ;-)
ThainPaladinTook: its okay
VardaValar1: Or maybe we can kick them awake!
ThainPaladinTook: heh
ArPharazonV: I'm not afk!
VardaValar1: o good. : )
ArPharazonV: just making preparations for tomorrow's Zul Aman
VardaValar1: (He claims he's not afk)
ArPharazonV: trying to get someone to sell me a fel lotus or 2 for some flasks
ThainPaladinTook: heh
ThainPaladinTook: what game are you playing?
ArPharazonV: World of Warcraft!
ThainPaladinTook: ah
ThainPaladinTook: working to much to play any mmorpgs
VardaValar1: Do you still have any MMO subscriptions?
ThainPaladinTook: cant really pay for games I dont have the time to play, just stick with the free ones, waiting for starcraft 2
VardaValar1: hehe
ThainPaladinTook: and hoping my computer can handle it
VardaValar1: So you play D2, SC, and WarCraft. Some of these guys play them too.
VardaValar1: Is that D2X?
VardaValar1: I use a lifetime subscription for Lord of the Rings Online, don't have to worry about monthly and times to play that way.
ThainPaladinTook: yeah d2x
ThainPaladinTook: hmm hows that work
ThainPaladinTook: ?
VardaValar1: After buying the game, choose the lifetime subscription instead of a monthly or three monthly or other.
VardaValar1: Still have to pay for new expansions, but not monthlies.
ThainPaladinTook: so you just paid once forever?
ThainPaladinTook: hmm
VardaValar1: Lot of free updates.
VardaValar1: Aye.
ArPharazonV: how much is that?
ThainPaladinTook: how much was it?
VardaValar1: I got the cheap version as a long time beta player, higher now. Around 300 I think. Have to check their website.
ArPharazonV: 300, eh
ThainPaladinTook: this is wrong, i can remember my password but not my name for the forums
ArPharazonV: and how much is a monthly subscription?
VardaValar1: I was never interested in monthly. We can check the site.
ArPharazonV: just want to compare
VardaValar1: This little comp can't handle much more, I'll have to shut LotRO site down and let you look.
ThainPaladinTook: yeah, i need to upgrade my computer some I think
ThainPaladinTook: for sc2
VardaValar1: I use a fancy comp for LotRO. This one is for meetings and typing. : )
VardaValar1: Since we seem to be in Membership already,
ThainPaladinTook: who is pallando? orodreth?
VardaValar1: we have a brand new member from LotRO, named Daddy TwoFoot-(V)
VardaValar1: Aye, he is. : )
VardaValar1: He was promoted.
ThainPaladinTook: i see
ThainPaladinTook: use to talk to him alot on aim
VardaValar1: Daddy Two-foot is a new father, like you are about to be. : )
VardaValar1: Pallando is supposed to be in here. : )
VardaValar1: He will be heading into the military
ThainPaladinTook: i found some of my old posts but my name is berolsar, my guest name!
ThainPaladinTook: dang
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: You can change the display name
VardaValar1: It's the user name that stays the same.
ThainPaladinTook: hmm
ThainPaladinTook: let me try that then
ThainPaladinTook: dang, nope
ThainPaladinTook: good think this doesnt kick me off after 3 wrong tries
ThainPaladinTook: thing*
ArPharazonV: the standard monthly subscription fee is $14.99 USD
ArPharazonV: hmm, so that's... 20 months
ArPharazonV: just over 3 years
ThainPaladinTook: umm
VardaValar1: I made it into the Forum : )
ThainPaladinTook: more like 1 and half years :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, sorry
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: No Berolsar in the member list under B
ArPharazonV: I was thinking about 2-monthly subscriptions a few minutes earlier, guess that got in myhead
ThainPaladinTook: no paladintook, thainpaladintook variation?
VardaValar1: I'll try those
ThainPaladinTook: im running out of ideas
VardaValar1: slow slow comp
ThainPaladinTook: might have to try lotro if my comp can handle the specs and I get some money, lol
VardaValar1: found you!
ThainPaladinTook: aha
VardaValar1: Paladin
ThainPaladinTook: doh
VardaValar1: correct email
VardaValar1: Maybe we got caught in your filter.
VardaValar1: The yearly mail goes out as group mail, so does the Games page update.
VardaValar1: Some filters block those.
VardaValar1: Shows you with 26 posts. :-)
ThainPaladinTook: there
ThainPaladinTook: that worked
VardaValar1: Last one was in 2005
ThainPaladinTook: dang
ThainPaladinTook: time goes by fast
ThainPaladinTook: stupid jobs
VardaValar1: Thanks for coming!
VardaValar1: Jobs make the other things possible.
VardaValar1: We'll be here when life lets you breathe again
VardaValar1: Take care of yourself and your little family!
ThainPaladinTook: k :-)
ThainPaladinTook: talk to you guys later
ArathornValar: take care
VardaValar1: Great! Namarie!
ThainPaladinTook has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Nam...nvrmind
VardaValar1: That was nice. : )
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Back to Membership : )
ArathornValar: Im cooking, doing laundry, foresting and reading this chat :-) .. Woot .. got my forester up to artisan .. can boil pristine now, no need to bother Fainan :-P
VardaValar1: I did mention our new member, Daddy Two-foot-(V) from LotRO, right. : )
VardaValar1: Congrats, Arathorn!
VardaValar1: Eonwe said that he and his family were taking his mom out for a birthday celebration for her. : )
VardaValar1: Sauron is home with us for the Spring Break weekend.
VardaValar1: Smart guy, brought his computer with him. ;-)
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
VardaValar1: We have 135 Total members, 115 gaming members
VardaValar1: This list will be updating, as we will be dropping inactive members.
VardaValar1: I've been very slow getting to that this year and apologize to the Membership.
VardaValar1: My least favorite job.

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Tolkien Site:
VardaValar1: New art by DeepGroover-(TV), that's Elwing-(V)'s brother.
VardaValar1: "Germanic Warrior"
VardaValar1: A model he assembled and painted, and that will be going into a contest in the future.
VardaValar1: New link to JRRT's war record:
ArathornValar: Whoa nice model
VardaValar1: That is from the National Archives of the UK's site.
VardaValar1: DeepGroover has won so many awards for his models that he is planning on retiring from contests to just display, since he has no more room for the trophies.
ArathornValar: heh
VardaValar1: He's not kidding. I've seen his place, fantastic.
VardaValar1: Uses jeweler's eyepiece to look at his model as he works.
ArathornValar: I usually use that for my bank account but anyway...
VardaValar1: The JRRT war record is interesting, partly because it is on the official UK site for such things.
VardaValar1: Now that you are all off checking out the cool web stuff,

VardaValar1: on to Gaming!
VardaValar1: Games played this week that weren't WoW or LotRO?
ArPharazonV: Outpost 2
ArathornValar: HAlf Life2 episode 2
ArPharazonV: finished the single-player campaigns today, they're quite fun, and now I'm moving to Starcraft
VardaValar1: Ara, is that CounterStrike?
ArPharazonV: in anticipation of SC2 I want to go through all the campaigns again and catch up with the gameplay and storyline
VardaValar1: Great thinking, Phar. : )
ArathornValar: It's actually the single player game but has counterstrike as well for multi which I am going to try with my brotehr
VardaValar1: Catch them when they go off-base.
ArathornValar: since getting teh new machine
VardaValar1: Ah cool. My boys played that too.
VardaValar1: Brother read LotR? ; )
VardaValar1: Fladrif played other stuff too, but the ent went treeish on us again.
VardaValar1: On to WoW
ArPharazonV: I'll poke him somewhere
VardaValar1: Phar, do you have a few Argent Dawn server comments?
ArPharazonV: yep
VardaValar1: Fire when ready!
fladrifv: hoomboom?
VardaValar1: hehe
fladrifv: *awakes*
VardaValar1: Good /poke, Phar.
fladrifv: I only played some chess this week
ArPharazonV: though no grouping has been going on, I think, I did see Arien come up with a new paladin, Urwendita I think, claiming that she had enough of the other paladin and has other plans for this one
VardaValar1: There he goes with "only" again. Chess is great!
VardaValar1: So a new build
fladrifv: aye thats why its the only game I play ;-)
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure if that means she deleted her old one, Urwendi, but I can't say more about that
VardaValar1: (Sauron and I had the D&D game tabletop if that counts)
ArPharazonV: new build, other guilds, not focusing on raiding... why she keeps starting with new chars instead of just switching around the old ones, I'll never understand
ArathornValar: Course Flad took 3 days to make the first move.. don't want to be "hasty" :-P
VardaValar1: Course not. : )
VardaValar1: Not everyone is fond of raiding, I've found.
ArPharazonV: on a personal WoW note, I reached my 23th exalted faction this week, Wintersaber Trainers, and am now working on 4 alliance factions at once by going through Alterac Valleys and delivering loot from dead horde players!
ArPharazonV: it's going a lot faster than runecloth I've found, at least when it's benefitting multiple factions
ArathornValar: Oddly enough it was a checkmate move.. not THAT'S thinking ahead <snortle> :-D
ArathornValar: er 'now'
ArPharazonV: when 2 out of 4 are maxed out I'll probably switch over to collecting runecloth
ArPharazonV: and no, not everyone's fond of raiding, Varda... but you don't need to delete your character and start over just to get out of it, I'd think?
VardaValar1: Nope.
ArPharazonV: that's why I'm confused concerning her actions... but I'm sure she thought them through
VardaValar1: It's a game. Main thing is for us all to enjoy it, relax from rl a bit. : )
VardaValar1: Lothar server has been seeing a fair bit of guild activity
VardaValar1: Some of the group are cross-guilded, but play with us the same.
VardaValar1: Uldaman server: Elwing is on it less and I'm on it more. Go figure. : )
VardaValar1: Lothar is seeing more of us with flying and epic flyers, more dailies, and raiding with Cold Rage Knights.
VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: That seems to be our main area of play and growth as a guild.
VardaValar1: I do recommend it for us as a Tolkien fan club and so we can continue to help guide it the way we prefer, giving input to the Devs as it progresses.
VardaValar1: The first new expansion is coming out.
VardaValar1: Before we played in the huge Eriador region.
ArathornValar: I just got to master foresting too just now .. I take it exceptional hides are the highest type?
VardaValar1: The expansion lets us go from the current High Pass into Eregion/Hollin, on into Moria with the Watcher and horrors of the nameless deep, then into Lothlorien!
VardaValar1: Aye, Arathorn.
ArathornValar: If so, Fainan can rest now re boiling :-P
VardaValar1: We also get two new classes: Warden and another slipping my mind atm.
VardaValar1: And the level cap raises from 50 to 60.
VardaValar1: End report.

VardaValar1: On to Tolkien!
VardaValar1: Would any of you like to mention a topic?
ArathornValar: Well, suppers ready and dryer stopped.. off to tend to RL for a bit
VardaValar1: Thinking about Eregion, besides the Watcher
VardaValar1: ok, Arathorn. Later!
ArPharazonV: enjoy, Arathorn!
ArPharazonV: the supper, that is :-)
VardaValar1: the really odd thing was the ruins from the buildings that Celelbrimbor's people built
VardaValar1: that they could be talked to by Legolas, a wood-elf, not even a Noldo as they were.
VardaValar1: Maybe because the stones were natural objects?
VardaValar1: The stones remembered being shaped and raised high, as if regretting the loss of that.
VardaValar1: Then later, at Moria, Gandalf asked Gimli and Legolas to quit fighting each other and help find a way in.
VardaValar1: Gimli tapped, listening for hollow sounds.
VardaValar1: Legolas leaned against the stone, listening perhaps for speech from it as he had from the ruins?
VardaValar1: Yet this time heard nothing.
ArPharazonV: well, those ruins were Elven homes once, so they could be infused/influenced somehow...
VardaValar1: Those stones had not been shaped? Did they feel more affinity for dwarves and would not speak with an elf?
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VardaValar1: Ahh, so maybe the elf presence did it.
ArPharazonV: I don't want to talk about magic, but maybe something had gone into them
ArPharazonV: aye
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien. : )
ArPharazonV: aiya Arien
AriehnV: Aiya all :-)
VardaValar1: Being around elves and shaped by them might have given them some affinity.
ArPharazonV: it is said that the Ents/trees of Fangorn were taught speech by the Elves
ArPharazonV: maybe to a certain point, the same was true of the homes they lived in
ArPharazonV: maybe during their crafting into buildings, or maybe during long years of occupation
ArPharazonV: maybe both
VardaValar1: True, so in time, had elves been left in Middle-earth, maybe we would have had stones that were more sentient.
VardaValar1: Intriguing.
ArPharazonV: maybe, yes
AriehnV: hmmm Fangorn mentioned a saying i think a quote ...
VardaValar1: So taking out the elves caused perhaps the loss of another type of life.
AriehnV: that sort of paraphrases that the inhabittants get like the places they live in
AriehnV: hold i get the quote ..
VardaValar1: Then the elves became more like stone? : )
ArPharazonV: Elves, stones... 2 opposites, over time crawling towards each other
VardaValar1: o cool :-)
ArPharazonV: Elves become more stonish, stones became more Elvish? ;-)
VardaValar1: Those were the Elves that worked with stone and dwarves, that made the Rings other than the One Ring.
AriehnV: hehe lol i cant find it to be honest
VardaValar1: Happens, Arien. I have had to not mention a ton of quotes. : )
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AriehnV: fangorn said it to . galadriel or Legolas or some thing like that .. a quote that is in quenya originally
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ArPharazonV: in the end you'd get elven statues, and you wonder whether they are Elf or stone...
ArPharazonV: just like huorns, who could be trees or ents ;-)
VardaValar1: Like the Pukel men of the Woses, although those were statues.
ArPharazonV: hehe
AriehnV: hehe phar like the pukelmen
AriehnV: they could sit so still and adapt so to their environ ment people could not tell whether they are stone or real
VardaValar1: But the elf stones would communicate. o my. Garden gnomes with built-in cell phones.
ArPharazonV: unless I'm mistaken, in a story in Unfinished Tales about the Druedain, there was talk of a statue that.. if I recall correctly... guarded someone's home and came to life in the middle of the night
AriehnV: hehe well you know what i mean .. there is also a story .. of tolkien , yes the watch stone or about a watch stone
ArPharazonV: Woses being descended from Druedain, something could be hidden in their statues as well :-)
AriehnV: erer guardian stone to which they sort of could transfer some sort of alertness and they shared their pain and wounds if hurt or damaged
ArPharazonV: *nod* something like that, yes
ArPharazonV: maybe Elves could transfer something like that to their stones as well?
VardaValar1: Sounds like the old shaman stories of the shaman's spirit possessing an animal, and if it were injured, his body would be too, due to the closeness of the connection.
ArPharazonV: there's always something fascinatingly mystical about tales like that, I like them
VardaValar1: I do too. : )
VardaValar1: It's the concept of extreme closeness to nature, partly.
VardaValar1: That's a huge attraction of the Elves, especially the idea of wood-elves, or green-elves, the closeness with nature.
ArPharazonV: in that case, while it might be Noldo occupation that changed the stones of their ruins, it might be the Woodelves who have the greatest knack for reaping that influence, for doing the actual communication?
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: The wood-elf could talk to the stone, but the Noldo is too busy shaping it.
ArPharazonV: typical :-)
VardaValar1: The Noldo puts his influence in.
VardaValar1: The wood-elf listens.
AriehnV: aha true
VardaValar1: Isn't that like the Ents leaving plants to relative wildness and Entwives gardening?
ArPharazonV: could be!
ArPharazonV: it's a comparison that you can see in lots of places, though...
ArPharazonV: like there were hobbits who were content with agriculture and other hobbits who assisted in the industrialization during the Big Men occupation
VardaValar1: Aye. I don't think that is an accident, but something Tolkien was showing us.
ArPharazonV: in fact, I've seen the concept more recently, in the game I've been playing, Outpost 2:
VardaValar1: Gardener Sam Gamgee and Miller Ted Sandyman
ArPharazonV: it's about a group of human colonists, who, after Earth's destruction, land on a marginably suitable desert planet, and split up in 2 groups: one group wants to adapt to the planet, live with it, and another who wants to shape it
ArPharazonV: to resemble earth, Terraform it... you get to choose which side you're on
ArPharazonV: it's the same difference, really
ArPharazonV: live in harmony with your environment, or change it to suit your own desires
ArPharazonV: it's quite a wide-spread storytheme, and not just visible in Tolkien
VardaValar1: Even wood-elves changed the environment some.
ArPharazonV: of course, but not to the same extent as Noldor
VardaValar1: Aye, if these things we spoke of were only relevant to Tolkien, they would be much less interesting. : )
VardaValar1: Aye, so a middle ground might be a good one to look at.
AriehnV: so task sharing :-)
ArPharazonV: the two policies are ideals, really, there are certain limits to both adaptation and changing the environment
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: so in the end, it will come down to the middle ground, though leaning towards one of the two extremes
AriehnV: in tolkien not everything is meant to be resting on one shoulder neither individually nor nationwide
VardaValar1: The idea is we don't have to destroy everything to live.
VardaValar1: Aye, teamwork is strongly emphasized.
VardaValar1: Yet the team has room for individual brilliance.
VardaValar1: Frodo and Sam did that.
VardaValar1: Aragorn did that.
VardaValar1: Boromir did his epic Norse-style brilliant redemption.
VardaValar1: Gimli and Legolas were not shown as much, yet you could tell they had their own brilliance.
VardaValar1: Aragorn, three of the Hobbits, Gimli, and Legolas all were great builders for the new world they brought about.
VardaValar1: Frodo made the world possible, but did not get to live in it long. He had already moved on.
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AriehnV: he was one of those who make things possible for others .. made the world more safe to live in, even though there was not much to see of it after sauron had fallen
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VardaValar1: I'm hunting a quote JRRT told about Frodo, about if he had taken possession of the One Ring at Mt. Doom. Not had it taken by Gollum
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VardaValar1: Here it is. People think Frodo failed, actually he was interrupted. : )
VardaValar1: Letter 246:
VardaValar1: "Frodo...had a clear vision - but he was not given any time.: he was immediately attacked by Gollum.
VardaValar1: "When Sauron was aware of the seizure of the Ring his one hope was in its power: that the claimant would be unable to relinquish it until Sauron had time to deal with him.
VardaValar1: "Frodo...would then probably, if not attacked, have had to...
VardaValar1: "cast himself with the Ring into the abyss."
VardaValar1: It tells more about how Sauron would have worked the situation, if you guys want more on that? The Frodo part was the main point.
ArPharazonV: he had to, yes... but would he have?
ArPharazonV: though I guess the vision bit made it clear
VardaValar1: Yes, he would.
VardaValar1: Gollum saved him. :-)
VardaValar1: So when Gollum got the Ring, another set of parameters kicked in from things Frodo said earlier.
VardaValar1: Frodo would not take the elven rope off of Gollum until he swore that he would not hurt Sam or Frodo. But Gollum would swear only by the Precious.
VardaValar1: In the last need, Smeagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago.
ArPharazonV: so when Gollum did try to hurt Frodo or Sam, the Precious made sure Gollum saved Frodo's life... and died doing it
VardaValar1: If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire.
VardaValar1: And such would be my command. So have a care, Smeagol!
VardaValar1: The One Ring was still on Frodo's finger, so it would consider itself safe!
VardaValar1: Gollum was holding the finger!
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Here, again at Mt. Doom, Frodo says:
VardaValar1: "Begone and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom."
VardaValar1: Gollum not only touched him, but injured him by biting off the finger. No way out of that one.
ArPharazonV: It was inevitable...
VardaValar1: I wish that the movie had made this stuff clearer.
VardaValar1: Imagine Frodo's voice-over while Gollum dances at the ledge.
VardaValar1: The whole thing would be so clear that way. : )
ArPharazonV: haha, that would have been nice
ArPharazonV: then again, in the movie, Frodo basically wrestled/threw him over the edge
VardaValar1: I actually expected to see that and was waiting for it.
ArPharazonV: acting in body rather than words :-)
ArPharazonV: but I agree, it would have been better
VardaValar1: True, more physical.
VardaValar1: Hollywood loves its fight scenes.
ArPharazonV: guess you can only have so much mystical prophecy in a movie...
ArPharazonV: and that, yes :-)
VardaValar1: Already had fire and violence, it would have worked fine.
VardaValar1: It would have been easy!
VardaValar1: I thought they might have been cutting back on the violence by not showing Gollum holding the finger.
ArPharazonV: I think they did show it, though?
VardaValar1: They showed the bite, the blood, that Frodo lost his finger
VardaValar1: They did not show Gollum holding it, which would have been only a little bit more.
VardaValar1: I thought his holding it was hugely important.
ArPharazonV: hm
VardaValar1: But then, I liked the Scouring of the Shire too. ;-)
ArPharazonV: nevermind me then
ArPharazonV: and yes, I liked that too, but there's your difference between books and movies
VardaValar1: That was PJ. He said he didn't like that part.
ArPharazonV: people reading books like to tie up loose ends, see what happens with everyone, no loose features hanging about
ArPharazonV: while in a movie, when the climactic battle is done, you like to cut down on the epilogue, and something like the Scouring would not fit that way: even the current ending was found too long by many people
VardaValar1: Aye. They started to film short scenes to show Gimli and Legolas in their new lands, but never finished them.
ArPharazonV: it's just the difference in medium
ArPharazonV: *nod*
ArPharazonV: the difference in medium, and the difference in people who prefer each medium
VardaValar1: The ending was bad because they had so many black frames between scenes that it looked like credits were about to roll. No transition.
ArPharazonV: true, that probably played a part
VardaValar1: That was what threw me.
ArPharazonV: but it wasn't the only reason
VardaValar1: I saw other people start to leave each time the black frames started.
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: wouldn't matter for me... I love credits.. especially stylish ones as in Lotr 3
VardaValar1: Then they would stop as the new stuff came on.
VardaValar1: Aye, I was waiting for the credits. :-)
ArPharazonV: I also love credits because you get to hear much clearer all the musical themes that have been playing throughout the movie
VardaValar1: But that was the real problem with the ending to me.
ArPharazonV: and seeing as lotr was filled with great custom music...
VardaValar1: True!
VardaValar1: and true!
VardaValar1: So now let's roll credits and let Europe rest. : )
ArPharazonV: hehe

VardaValar1: After-meeting!
ArPharazonV: allright
VardaValar1: See you around, good buddies. : )
ArPharazonV: I'm afk for a bit then, putting the papers I printed concerning Outpost 2 back in my gaming-documents-folders
ArPharazonV: and getting out the Starcraft ones, no doubt :-)
VardaValar1: /wave
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: bah
ArPharazonV: no matter! she'll see it on the transcript
ArPharazonV: *points to transcript-reading Varda* Yes, I mean you! [note: chuckle from transcript-reading Varda]
AriehnV: Namarie Phari :-) sorry i got distracted by an ent
ArPharazonV: ah, no problem :-)
ArPharazonV: namarie then!
AriehnV: Namarie all
ArPharazonV: Namarie
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
ArPharazonV: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: welcome to late late aftermeeting, I guess!
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
Eonwe Valar: Just got back, thought I'd swing by and see who was still here.
ArPharazonV: me, messing around in Starcraft a little bit before bed
ArPharazonV: zerg doesn't have stealthers, right?
fladrifv: :D
ArPharazonV: at least, mobile stealthers?
fladrifv: they do
fladrifv: ok uhm in broodwar
Eonwe Valar: They had lurkers that could burrow and attack.
fladrifv: not very mobile
ArPharazonV: yes, but any units that can move while stealthed?
Eonwe Valar: As far as I recall, only Kerrigan could outright stealth and walk around.
fladrifv: aye those flying tanks
Eonwe Valar: For Zerg.
fladrifv: they are stealthed or are they just insane ranged?
Eonwe Valar: Which flying tanks?
fladrifv: flying crabs
Eonwe Valar: Guardians?
ArPharazonV: I mean, dark templar can stealth as protoss, wraiths can stealth for terran...
fladrifv: was that unit called
ArPharazonV: I just need to know if I need to ring my base with detectors, or if they can't get in stealthed :-)
ArPharazonV: but yeah, those crab things just have insane range
Eonwe Valar: I would put some detectors in for lurkers and defilers.
Eonwe Valar: so you can see when defilers are approaching and burrowed specifically.
Eonwe Valar: But you have little to worry about from a cloaked attacking unit.
fladrifv: problem with zerg is that they come with a milion
fladrifv: not nesesarely invisible but yet deadly
ArPharazonV: on second thought, it doesn't really matter... I need missile turrets for anti-air, and they detect
fladrifv: guardians have longer range
fladrifv: was it guardian?
ArPharazonV: think so
Eonwe Valar: A small group of Valkeries to deal with Guardians wouldnmm't hurt either.
ArPharazonV: anyway, I took out the purple zerg colony, and stole their minerals/vespene... setting up my defense there, and then I'm marching on the second
Eonwe Valar: The air unit that attacks only ground, yes.
ArPharazonV: I think I'll save that for next time
Eonwe Valar: Evolved from Mutalisks.
ArPharazonV: going to sleep now
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Phar.
fladrifv: seen this?
fladrifv: sleep well
fladrifv: look at the link first :-)
ArPharazonV: and in case you're wondering, I'm playing the prologue levels you could download, that took place before the original, and are set in the original... so no guardians, lurkers, valkyries
ArPharazonV: and because it's the prologue campaign I don't even get science vessels or battlecruisers *shrug*
ArPharazonV: getting myself acquainted with siege tanks and goliaths again... been a long time
fladrifv: namarie all
ArPharazonV: think I'm getting the hang of it, just bombarded a zerg base from a high platform with 2 siege tanks, 2 goliaths and 6 wraiths for defense, and an scv
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: ok, saving and sending!
Eonwe Valar: Take care Fladrif
fladrifv has left the room.