June 29, 2008 Meeting
5pm EST (GMT - 5);
(GMT = 22:00)
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AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by: Varda (with apologies for the Central Standard Time timestamps)
ArPharazonV, arwenv1, Eonwe Valar (presiding), fladrifv, Gelmir-(V)/Shaggyjoe, VardaValar1
Menelvagor is traveling to the USA now
Suggestions for events upcoming this year. Event listing on Turbine forums.
: Gelmir plans to join us
Did Feanor continue to have right to the Silmarils?
ArPharazonV (3:57:25 PM) has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (3:57:26 PM) has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (3:57:34 PM): Aiya Ar-Pharazon :-)
ArPharazonV (3:57:43 PM): Aiya!
ArPharazonV (3:57:55 PM): just playing some BW, will close down when meeting starts :)
ArPharazonV (3:57:58 PM): how's Eowyn?
VardaValar1 (3:58:10 PM): Better today, glad to say.
ArPharazonV (3:58:20 PM): great!
VardaValar1 (3:58:45 PM): I may leave suddenly to help her up or down, but that doesn't take long
VardaValar1 (3:58:52 PM): Door
Eonwe Valar (3:58:52 PM) has entered the room.
arwenv1 (3:58:55 PM) has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar (3:58:57 PM): WIndow
Eonwe Valar (3:59:08 PM): Did I win? :}
ArPharazonV (3:59:09 PM): chimney?
Eonwe Valar (3:59:16 PM): Darn, guess not :}
Eonwe Valar (3:59:24 PM): Heya all :}
ArPharazonV (3:59:30 PM): sorry, just finished reading Hogfather :)
ArPharazonV (3:59:48 PM): so chimneys are in my mind as entrances/exits ;)
Eonwe Valar (3:59:50 PM): Afk for a moment, then I'll be ready to begin.
VardaValar1 (4:00:15 PM): hmm, chimney exit. May try that
VardaValar1 (4:00:23 PM): Bilbo just came in, says hi.
Shaggyjoe (4:00:30 PM) has entered the room.
Shaggyjoe (4:00:36 PM): Hello
VardaValar1 (4:00:38 PM): Gelmir! Aiya!
VardaValar1 (4:00:54 PM): What did we catch you in the middle of? : )
mecoons (4:01:28 PM) has been invited.
srekal86 (4:01:28 PM) has been invited.
Eonwe Valar (4:01:36 PM): back
fladrifv (4:01:40 PM) has been invited.
gwaihirvalar (4:01:40 PM) has been invited.
mjkeenan1234 (4:01:40 PM) has been invited.
Invitation result for buddy GwaihirValar : GwaihirValar is busy.
VardaValar1 (4:01:53 PM): Welcome back, Eonwe : )
Eonwe Valar (4:02:06 PM): Thanks, and welcome back to you as well :}
liberalhound (4:02:09 PM) has been invited.
narthais (4:02:09 PM) has been invited.
austeinm (4:02:29 PM) has been invited.
VardaValar1 (4:02:50 PM): Invitations sent. Not a lot on right now
Eonwe Valar (4:03:02 PM): Everyone please make sure you invite guild members you see on that aren't in here.
VardaValar1 (4:03:03 PM): Irmo, Miriel, Hurin, and Merry say hi from LotRO.
Eonwe Valar (4:03:10 PM): Heya to them.
Eonwe Valar (4:03:19 PM): and Heya to BIlbo.
VardaValar1 (4:03:20 PM): They were helping Hurin make it through book quests.
VardaValar1 (4:04:09 PM): Aye, help with inviting people who come in
after we've already done the mass invitation. : ) We tend to miss
Eonwe Valar (4:05:05 PM): OK, attendance taken. Let's begin.
ArPharazonV (4:05:12 PM): allright, closed BW... just sent 22 mutalisks at a Terran base
VardaValar1 (4:05:35 PM): Dead Terrans
ArPharazonV (4:05:36 PM): took out all the starports, the armory, a
barracks, and most of their standing anti-air forces... and stilll over
a dozen left... I think I'm winning :)
VardaValar1 (4:06:06 PM): That's a clue
VardaValar1 (4:06:21 PM): Eonwe has the gavel once again. : )
ArPharazonV (4:06:28 PM): allright :)
Eonwe Valar (4:06:33 PM): Elenn Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar (4:06:48 PM): Membership:
Eonwe Valar (4:07:41 PM): Menelvagor
might be on his journey right now. Think he mentioned he was leaving about this time.
Eonwe Valar (4:07:48 PM): time as in day.
Eonwe Valar (4:08:13 PM): Varda
is back :}
VardaValar1 (4:08:18 PM): Yay!
Eonwe Valar (4:08:28 PM): Anything you'd like to add, Varda?
ArPharazonV (4:08:30 PM): Aiyata!
VardaValar1 (4:08:31 PM): Amaranth
's birthday is today.
Eonwe Valar (4:08:40 PM): Happy Birthday to Amaranth :}
VardaValar1 (4:08:52 PM): Le hannon, Ar-Pharazon. : )
Eonwe Valar (4:09:40 PM): Any other member news?
VardaValar1 (4:10:13 PM): Saw Alatar
was on LotRO today. : )
VardaValar1 (4:10:49 PM): There was a question on asking how we should go about recruiting
. Going to start it up again.
VardaValar1 (4:10:54 PM): Suggestions welcome. : )
VardaValar1 (4:11:39 PM): I was thinking a general message maybe daily, once so as not to be spam? In LotRO in my case.
Eonwe Valar (4:11:45 PM): Does LotRO have a guild recruitment channel?
VardaValar1 (4:11:49 PM): Organize some sort of events?
VardaValar1 (4:11:57 PM): Not really.
Eonwe Valar (4:12:04 PM): Ok, scratch that then.
arwenv1 (4:12:39 PM): trivia contest
arwenv1 (4:12:46 PM): with tolkien trivia and prizes.
VardaValar1 (4:12:46 PM): Sometimes they have kinship recruitment fairs, I trry to go to them when around.
VardaValar1 (4:12:56 PM): Good idea, Arwen!
arwenv1 (4:13:22 PM): I recently did a trivia contest in wow
arwenv1 (4:13:27 PM): along with a scavenger hunt
arwenv1 (4:13:33 PM): which was great fun :)
Shaggyjoe (4:13:44 PM): We should look to future games to recruit, like Darkfall Online.
VardaValar1 (4:13:48 PM): Sounds good.
VardaValar1 (4:13:58 PM): How does Darkfall look?
Shaggyjoe (4:14:04 PM): Amazing.
VardaValar1 (4:14:24 PM): We need people who are interested in those games to hande recruiting there.
VardaValar1 (4:14:41 PM): I am going to stick with LotRO, but another could handle Darkfall.
Shaggyjoe (4:14:48 PM): Okay.
VardaValar1 (4:14:58 PM): Eonwe is sticking with WoW
VardaValar1 (4:15:10 PM): That puts dedicated recruiters in the right places. : )
VardaValar1 (4:15:27 PM): You looking into it, Gelmir?
VardaValar1 (4:16:44 PM): I have trouble getting our LotRO people to come to AIM.
VardaValar1 (4:17:00 PM): They are happy to work together in-game.
VardaValar1 (4:17:28 PM): Tolkien Site additions haven't been coming in lately, from gamers.
VardaValar1 (4:18:13 PM): Maybe prizes of resources or something for stories, articles, art, etc?
VardaValar1 (4:18:42 PM): Make them paid articles.
Eonwe Valar (4:19:03 PM): Paid articles?
ArPharazonV (4:19:33 PM): in-game materials, I assume, not real money :)
VardaValar1 (4:19:50 PM): hehe - aye, like skins, ore
VardaValar1 (4:20:31 PM): Prizes for trivia, site contributions. Would that help any, or at least add to the fun?
VardaValar1 (4:20:55 PM): Right now a story or article comes in and gets a lot of silence.
Eonwe Valar (4:22:14 PM): Trivia nad story contests sound interesting.
VardaValar1 (4:22:29 PM): Eonwe would win both. ; )
Eonwe Valar (4:22:42 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (4:22:50 PM): I wasn't thinking of story contests, but we could do something with that.
Eonwe Valar (4:23:33 PM): Don't see how we could award contest prizes
for articles, unless it were most information on a most obscure subject.
VardaValar1 (4:23:34 PM): Trivia is not too hard for us to judge.
VardaValar1 (4:23:58 PM): I was thinking of just giving resources for any article or other contribution.
Eonwe Valar (4:24:38 PM): Ah, well, whatever works I guess.
VardaValar1 (4:24:54 PM): We could do challenges for subjects?
VardaValar1 (4:25:10 PM): Prize could be for how well they meet the actual challenge.
VardaValar1 (4:25:37 PM): I suspect with this group it would be a dead heat on most challenges.
Eonwe Valar (4:26:21 PM): For the record, if you're reading this,
you're not at the meeting and you have an idea to contribute, e-mail
VardaValar1 (4:26:29 PM): Aye : )
VardaValar1 (4:26:43 PM): Events could be made up.
VardaValar1 (4:27:05 PM): Hobbit-tossing is one Irmo and some of the others have been playing with.
VardaValar1 (4:27:29 PM): Arwen's trivia and scavenger hunt suggestions should be taken.
VardaValar1 (4:27:52 PM): Turbine recently put up a forum thread for listing events.
Eonwe Valar (4:27:53 PM): I remember during the pre-release discussion
that we were talking about holidays from the books that could be used.
VardaValar1 (4:28:06 PM): http://forums.lotro.com/forumdisplay.php?f=144
VardaValar1 (4:28:23 PM): Aye, those could be our event times, give us themes.
Eonwe Valar (4:28:26 PM): Thanks Varda.
VardaValar1 (4:28:49 PM): Here's an URL that says how to use it:
VardaValar1 (4:28:52 PM): http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=61457&utm_source=Turbine&utm_medium=e-mail&utm_campaign=ocr
VardaValar1 (4:29:02 PM): And here's the associated calendar:
VardaValar1 (4:29:12 PM): http://forums.lotro.com/calendar.php?
VardaValar1 (4:29:20 PM): Ok, that's all my links. : )
Eonwe Valar (4:29:25 PM): Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar (4:30:02 PM): And of course, participation in these things is important :}
Eonwe Valar (4:30:25 PM): If we have an event and no one gets involved, it doesn't get very far :}
VardaValar1 (4:30:44 PM): So we can try to have events on special
Middle-earth holidays, including trivia, scavenger hunts, concerts,
story-telling, hobbit-tossing, and such.
VardaValar1 (4:31:05 PM): With a bit of questing after since we have a group together. ;-)
Eonwe Valar (4:31:14 PM): :}
Eonwe Valar (4:31:47 PM): Any other ideas?
VardaValar1 (4:31:50 PM): I'm noting that Irmo's group and Melkor's
group are most often seen in mornings. Melkor's especially on weekends.
VardaValar1 (4:31:55 PM): Timing is tricky.
VardaValar1 (4:32:08 PM): Some can only come in evenings, so we might do two-parters?
VardaValar1 (4:32:32 PM): Invite the public.
Eonwe Valar (4:32:37 PM): I've been trying to make Monday my LotRO day, so I'm there at least once a week.
VardaValar1 (4:32:44 PM): ah, thanks
VardaValar1 (4:32:55 PM): We are trying to do better making concerts.
VardaValar1 (4:33:13 PM): thefatlute.org is a main source of Irmo and Miriel's music
VardaValar1 (4:33:34 PM): That way we can do music in several parts that all of us have.
VardaValar1 (4:33:58 PM): Hopefully we'll have original music abc's
maybe off mp3's from members in time to give us something fresh.
VardaValar1 (4:34:21 PM): Hurin has been playing with them for a third music part.
VardaValar1 (4:34:37 PM): And our minstrels need to be helped to learn how to mentor different instruments.
VardaValar1 (4:34:45 PM): Ok, I'm done. : )
Eonwe Valar (4:35:09 PM): Thanks Varda. I'll see if I can't suggest more, and everyone else please feel free to do the same.
Eonwe Valar (4:35:44 PM): Some of these aren't exclusively LotRO ideas :}
VardaValar1 (4:35:57 PM): I really enjoyed Eonwe's WoW trivia :-)
Eonwe Valar (4:36:28 PM): Web news:
Eonwe Valar (4:36:58 PM): New Drabble story
from Jay of Lasgalen: Messengers of the West
VardaValar1 (4:37:18 PM): http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authorsT/JayofLasgalen/stories/drabbles/MessengersfromtheWest.htm
Eonwe Valar (4:37:37 PM): Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar (4:37:58 PM): Nothing to announce from my webwork yet.
Eonwe Valar (4:38:22 PM): Gaming:
Eonwe Valar (4:38:59 PM): One of the most noteworthy items for gaming tonight is the announcement of Diablo 3
Shaggyjoe (4:39:14 PM): I'm happy to hear that!
Eonwe Valar (4:39:15 PM): http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/
Shaggyjoe (4:39:27 PM): The only bad thing is bliz has it on the back burner atm.
Eonwe Valar (4:39:51 PM): Why do you say that?
ArPharazonV (4:39:57 PM): SC2?
Eonwe Valar (4:40:26 PM): They have multiple teams to work on everything they're doing.
Shaggyjoe (4:40:27 PM): Wow is a multi-billion dollar game.
Shaggyjoe (4:40:34 PM): true.
Shaggyjoe (4:40:41 PM): I can link you the interview.
Shaggyjoe (4:40:44 PM): If I can find it.
VardaValar1 (4:40:58 PM): Please do when you can, or email it to me for the News if it's later.
ArPharazonV (4:41:16 PM): yeah, it's interesting... now they're working
on Wrath of the Lich King, Starcraft 2, and Diablo 3 at once...
VardaValar1 (4:41:21 PM): I only saw 2 classes listed on D3 so far. I trust more are coming.
Eonwe Valar (4:41:44 PM): Quite likely, but it doesn't look new enough to me so far to wow me.
VardaValar1 (4:41:52 PM): All are different teams though.
VardaValar1 (4:42:47 PM): D3 actually looked depressing. I hope they
remember the fun element, like the old rusty daggers of poking yourself.
Shaggyjoe (4:43:23 PM): I still want to get a D1 Ironman
Shaggyjoe (4:44:01 PM): I mentioned Darkfall Online
earlier, have any of you look at it yet?
VardaValar1 (4:44:03 PM): oh fun : )
Eonwe Valar (4:44:15 PM): I haven't.
Shaggyjoe (4:44:19 PM): well here's the link.
VardaValar1 (4:44:20 PM): I could go google it unless you have the url?
Shaggyjoe (4:44:51 PM): Darkfall Online
Eonwe Valar (4:44:58 PM): Thanks Gel
Shaggyjoe (4:45:16 PM): I'll try to sum it up, bascially it's a huge MMORPG.
VardaValar1 (4:45:39 PM): http://www.darkfallonline.com/
Shaggyjoe (4:46:04 PM): It's being Designed, Developed, and released by
Aventurine. Oh yeah, sorry guess those that read this wont know what
that hyperlink is.
Shaggyjoe (4:47:11 PM): It's been in the works for 8 years.
Eonwe Valar (4:47:22 PM): Well then they better make it good, hehe.
Shaggyjoe (4:47:51 PM): They've already started closed beta, don't want
to release it before it's 100% done, and thusly are testing for the
rest of the summer. (my messages are too long... grr)
Shaggyjoe (4:48:17 PM): They plan to stress test the servers for ~3
weeks (speculated) before release by christmas of this year. It's like
UO in the sense that you aren't streamlined into a class.
VardaValar1 (4:48:18 PM): hehe
Shaggyjoe (4:49:22 PM): You can pick any skills or spells and mix and
match abilities. This is one of the first games where camouflage
matters, having shiny armor or a sword drawn can reflect sun light and
give away positions.
Eonwe Valar (4:49:43 PM): Intersting.
Eonwe Valar (4:49:58 PM): I'll have to take a closer look after the meeting, but it sounds interesting.
Shaggyjoe (4:50:14 PM): There is no "stealth" in the sense of
invisibility so you have to play smart to sneak up on people. Mobs can
"smell" you if you are upwind so you have to move smart while hunting.
:-) Anyway there's dozens of other cool points.
Eonwe Valar (4:50:43 PM): Thanks for bringing that to our attention Gel.
Shaggyjoe (4:50:51 PM): Mhmm :-)
Eonwe Valar (4:51:09 PM): LotRO:
Eonwe Valar (4:51:24 PM): Sounds like there was some fun yesterday.
VardaValar1 (4:52:03 PM): That was just my welcome back time. :-) A more or less normal day.
Eonwe Valar (4:52:43 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (4:53:25 PM): It was great fun though, runnning with the Melkorrim in Angmar for quests.
VardaValar1 (4:53:32 PM): Lots of duo stuff
VardaValar1 (4:53:56 PM): Fun helping some of our buddies with Book 11, completed it so they could go right into Book 12.
Eonwe Valar (4:56:49 PM): I got some time in Monday, got a couple of low level quests done, and I can ride my Bree horse :}
Eonwe Valar (4:57:44 PM): Not very fast, but better than walking :}
VardaValar1 (4:58:36 PM): Grats on the Bree horse! : )
Eonwe Valar (4:58:55 PM): Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar (4:59:12 PM): WoW:
Eonwe Valar (4:59:43 PM): Changes coming when 2.4.3 comes out, like mounts moving to lvl 30 from 40.
VardaValar1 (5:00:25 PM): Really though, LotRO seems like THE place to be for a Tolkien fan club like us.
VardaValar1 (5:00:43 PM): The game is still in progress with lots of room for us to help it improve.
VardaValar1 (5:01:07 PM): The Devs listen and take suggestions, and have tons of expansions coming up. Barely started.
VardaValar1 (5:01:24 PM): They talked about going all the way through to Harad, not stopping with Mordor.
VardaValar1 (5:01:36 PM): That even gives room for the Blue Wizard cults.
VardaValar1 (5:02:22 PM): That's my hope.
Eonwe Valar (5:03:15 PM): Well, it's looking good for providing expansions regularly, if they meet their goal of this fall :}
Eonwe Valar (5:04:00 PM): If the quality of the expansion matches the original, that'll be a good step.
Eonwe Valar (5:05:00 PM): Well, since I'm on the subject of the LotRO
expansion, make sure you try out the fun games on their expansion page
to "Unlock the Mines of Moria!" :}
Eonwe Valar (5:05:43 PM): WoW Lothar:
Eonwe Valar (5:06:31 PM): Elwing and I got together to run an instance or two and get some of her quests done.
Eonwe Valar (5:07:31 PM): I saw Fangorn, Bilbo, and arwen were on as
well, and I think Merry popped in for a bit too, but I missed him.
Eonwe Valar (5:08:14 PM): Anyone do anything besides WoW and LotRO?
VardaValar1 (5:08:24 PM): Merry was just gifted with the Burning Crusades this last weekend. : )
VardaValar1 (5:08:34 PM): I saw him on LotRO earlier today though
Eonwe Valar (5:08:52 PM): Oh, one more thing, Elwing's closing in on 70 :}
ArPharazonV (5:08:57 PM): oh, I did some stuff
VardaValar1 (5:09:23 PM): Go Elwing!
ArPharazonV (5:09:33 PM): I played a lot of Guild Wars
past week, and my next step will be the first mission in the
Shiverpeaks... my lvl 15 ranger is doing quite well for herself :)
ArPharazonV (5:10:16 PM): also some Starcraft: Broodwar
played it online with Fladrif a few times, as we fought against AI
opponents, and I continued into the campaign... it's hard to pick up
after a month of absence :)
VardaValar1 (5:10:25 PM): Sounds like a lot. : )
Shaggyjoe (5:10:31 PM): I would play on Lothar but atm My rogue is working on getting 1950 in S4 arena for my S3 shoulders.
Shaggyjoe (5:11:36 PM): I'm really on my last leg for wow though, after
this many years it's been enough. I might go pick up the SC battlechest
and play some BW with yall soon.
ArPharazonV (5:11:47 PM): well, it's fun... I'm starting to get the
hang of Guildwars, though the fact that you can only take 8 skills with
you does make it quite challenging
Shaggyjoe (5:12:04 PM): I haven't played GW since beta, have they improved it much?
ArPharazonV (5:12:27 PM): well, I haven't played the beta, really, and
it's been many years since the open world events in which I
Eonwe Valar (5:12:28 PM): LotRO has some interesting stuff :} Traits
and soon to be legendary items that grow with you according to the
expansion info :}
ArPharazonV (5:12:33 PM): I assume it's improved, but I couldn't say :)
Eonwe Valar (5:12:53 PM): If you're looking for an MMO to replace WoW anyway, Gel :}
Shaggyjoe (5:13:33 PM): Yeah... I think you and Varda have talked me into it.
Shaggyjoe (5:13:47 PM): I assume there's a free trial I can DL?
Eonwe Valar (5:13:53 PM): Hehe, I wasn't really trying, but ok :}
Eonwe Valar (5:14:07 PM): http://www.lotro.com
I believe is the website.
Shaggyjoe (5:14:28 PM): Is there "PvE Progression"?
Eonwe Valar (5:14:41 PM): There are raids, if that's what you mean.
Shaggyjoe (5:14:43 PM): Like how active is our guild?
ArPharazonV (5:15:25 PM): I think pve progression in lotro is based on "books"?
Eonwe Valar (5:15:34 PM): Guess it depends on time of day. I've only been coming in Mondays.
Eonwe Valar (5:16:05 PM): Sounds like we've got a good number on a few times a week at least though.
Shaggyjoe (5:16:27 PM): I need a new computer ><
Eonwe Valar (5:16:42 PM): Aye, the requirements are steep.
Shaggyjoe (5:18:04 PM): Im at recommended in all except my old vid
card. I just really need more HD space. Guess this is a good time to
buy a new computer for "school". :-)
Eonwe Valar (5:18:23 PM): :}
Eonwe Valar (5:18:30 PM): Aye, and break it in before "school" ;}
Eonwe Valar (5:18:50 PM): 512MB graphics cards are going pretty cheap at Best Buy.
Eonwe Valar (5:19:47 PM): Ok all, time for you to come up with a Tolkien
Topic or get stuck with mine :}
Shaggyjoe (5:19:59 PM): Yeah, I have a rig priced up and ready to be ordered just need the moneh :-)
Eonwe Valar (5:20:07 PM): :}
Shaggyjoe (5:20:18 PM): I'm semi-afk making room for the game.
Eonwe Valar (5:20:53 PM): Ok, everyone still here say aye.
ArPharazonV (5:21:08 PM): aye
ArPharazonV (5:21:30 PM): though since I've gone through all my webcomics I'll be playing a bit of WoW during this part ;)
Eonwe Valar (5:21:42 PM): During the Tolkien chat?
Eonwe Valar (5:21:47 PM): For shame.
ArPharazonV (5:21:52 PM): well, I can take breaks!
Eonwe Valar (5:22:14 PM): Looks like you're the only one here Phar, hehe.
Eonwe Valar (5:23:40 PM): Ok
ArPharazonV (5:23:48 PM): hmmm? :)
Eonwe Valar (5:23:56 PM): So I guess it's time for a homework assignment :}
ArPharazonV (5:24:03 PM): ah
VardaValar1 (5:24:43 PM): bacl
Eonwe Valar (5:24:47 PM): Everyone must read the AinulindallÃ«.
VardaValar1 (5:24:47 PM): back even
Eonwe Valar (5:24:51 PM): Welcome back :}
VardaValar1 (5:25:25 PM): No hardship, that. : )
ArPharazonV (5:25:26 PM): welcome back indeedy
ArPharazonV (5:25:32 PM): no, sounds easy enough :)
Eonwe Valar (5:26:25 PM): The topic I had planned to bring to the table
was one I'd been reminded of while perusing the old Discussion Board
VardaValar1 (5:26:49 PM): ohh, someone still looks at it! I do keep it maintained, trying to keep off spam.
VardaValar1 (5:27:10 PM): People could upload stories there if they wanted, even.
VardaValar1 (5:27:15 PM): What topic, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar (5:27:17 PM): I visit it every now and then, read some stuff, make sure my login still works..
VardaValar1 (5:27:35 PM): Too much good stuff to delete the board.
Eonwe Valar (5:28:08 PM): The one that comes to mind for this week is
whether FÃ«anor could still lay claim to the SIlmarilli :}
VardaValar1 (5:28:52 PM): I'd have to say no, since he lost his claim due to such things as the Kinslayings.
ArPharazonV (5:29:01 PM): his sons couldn't... was that because of the oath or because of the kinslayings?
Eonwe Valar (5:29:14 PM): He was their creator, however.
VardaValar1 (5:29:58 PM): The Kinslayings
Eonwe Valar (5:30:06 PM): Sauron didn't lose claim to his Ring just because it was cut from his hand :}
VardaValar1 (5:30:31 PM): He was their creator, aye. But the crystals were hallowed and his hands would burn if he touched them.
ArPharazonV (5:30:46 PM): still, he was only there for 1 kinslaying
ArPharazonV (5:31:08 PM): "only"
VardaValar1 (5:31:29 PM): He caused the Kinslayings with cruelly
binding oaths. He tempted away the Noldor from Valinor for all the
wrong reasons, such as wanting their own kingdoms.
Eonwe Valar (5:31:43 PM): Aye, they would burn him, but that doesn't make his claim to them forfeit.
VardaValar1 (5:31:55 PM): Seems like a clue that he lost claim.
VardaValar1 (5:32:14 PM): He'll have to argue with Elendil for the right to one, used as the morning star.
VardaValar1 (5:32:24 PM): Earendil
VardaValar1 (5:32:33 PM): *needs typing lessons*
Eonwe Valar (5:32:36 PM): :}
VardaValar1 (5:33:19 PM): Guess he could argue with Aule and dig one from the lava, or with Ulmo for the one in the sea.
Eonwe Valar (5:33:23 PM): The Silmarilli burned Morgoth and Carcharoth as well, beings who couldn't lay claim to them anyway.
VardaValar1 (5:33:37 PM): Aye, that hallowed item problem.
VardaValar1 (5:33:46 PM): Feanor in a class with Carcharoth. ; )
Eonwe Valar (5:33:51 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (5:34:46 PM): I admire Feanor's abilities as a craftsman
and rune maker and with rhetoric. But his personality was flawed.
Eonwe Valar (5:35:46 PM): I won't argue that he was a pillar of virtue and decency.
VardaValar1 (5:35:51 PM): I guess as the creator, he should at least have bragging rights.
VardaValar1 (5:35:57 PM): *chuckles*
VardaValar1 (5:36:43 PM): He let his love of his own creations become his self-esteem holders.
VardaValar1 (5:36:51 PM): He could not let go.
Eonwe Valar (5:37:13 PM): I think the Valar would've had a harder time
telling FÃ«anor he had no right to the Silmarilli had he
survived to the War of Wrath than they did his sons.
VardaValar1 (5:38:03 PM): He did have more claim. They had a binding
oath laid on them. He was more able to release his own binding.
Eonwe Valar (5:39:43 PM): Well, he called on Eru, MawÃ«, and Varda in his oath.
VardaValar1 (5:40:00 PM): Calling in Eru sunk it.
VardaValar1 (5:40:21 PM): Varda and Manwe released it.
Eonwe Valar (5:40:48 PM): If we go by the idea that a creator puts
something of himself into his creation, one could ask how
FÃ«anor could lose claim to a part of himself.
VardaValar1 (5:41:13 PM): He put in a part of the Trees' light, so we could say Yavanna was in it too, if we believed that.
VardaValar1 (5:41:28 PM): So he should release Yavanna. But I don't believe that was the case.
Eonwe Valar (5:41:35 PM): hehe
Eonwe Valar (5:42:04 PM): Well, it's a theme of sorts in the history of Arda.
VardaValar1 (5:42:15 PM): He made them from elements made by Aule, so he needs to release Aule too.
VardaValar1 (5:42:53 PM): As in Melkor purposely put a part of himself into Arda to control things, "Morgoth's Ring".
arwenv1 (5:43:05 PM) has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (5:43:06 PM): The Silmarilli are more akin to the Two Trees
than to xsimple metals: they're something that FÃ«anor can
never produce its like.
VardaValar1 (5:43:52 PM): One could compare them to the ships of the
Teleri, and they were so compared. He willfully burned those, but
insists on his rights to the Silmarils.
Eonwe Valar (5:44:20 PM): AulÃ« understood what was being
asked of FÃ«anor when he was asked to unmake them to
attempt (no guarantee) the Trees.
VardaValar1 (5:44:30 PM): He needs to see that if he has such a right
to the Silmarils, then the Teleri have the same right to their ships.
Eonwe Valar (5:44:40 PM): Aye, the Ships of the Teleri are another example.
Eonwe Valar (5:45:02 PM): So his rejection of others' rights negates his own?
VardaValar1 (5:45:30 PM): It would be fair.
Eonwe Valar (5:46:06 PM): Would it, or would it be behaving like FÃ«anor :}
VardaValar1 (5:46:08 PM): By his own actions he disagrees that he has such a right.
ArPharazonV (5:46:09 PM): is the loss of rights ever fair?
VardaValar1 (5:46:19 PM): Did he really have a right?
VardaValar1 (5:46:42 PM): Just creating something may not give you ownership. Just a claim.
Eonwe Valar (5:46:52 PM): The Valar asked him for the Silmarilli,
rather than just taking them. Seems they acknowledged he had a right to
VardaValar1 (5:47:16 PM): Aye, and when he said no, they stopped at that.
Eonwe Valar (5:47:36 PM): Aye
VardaValar1 (5:47:37 PM): But Feanor would not accept no from the Teleri.
VardaValar1 (5:48:07 PM): Feanor had a claim, but he wiped out his own claim.
VardaValar1 (5:48:36 PM): He could no longer hold a hallowed object.
VardaValar1 (5:48:51 PM): Guess he could put them on the mantelpiece? : )
ArPharazonV (5:49:00 PM): pick them up with gloves :)
Eonwe Valar (5:49:17 PM): Tongs :} He was a smith :}
ArPharazonV (5:49:23 PM): true
Eonwe Valar (5:49:31 PM): Gloves works too :}
Eonwe Valar (5:50:13 PM): I'm not sure I have more to add in FÃ«anor's favor right now.
ArPharazonV (5:50:17 PM): still, if he couldn't touch them because they were a hallowed object, that should give him a clue
VardaValar1 (5:50:23 PM): Aye, Phar
ArPharazonV (5:50:25 PM): that someone higher up doesn't recognize his claim anymore
VardaValar1 (5:50:30 PM): Aye
VardaValar1 (5:50:35 PM): His sons saw that.
ArPharazonV (5:51:11 PM): still, Feanor was more stubborn than some of
his sons... I think he would have been the least likely to break the
oath and the least likely to release his claim
VardaValar1 (5:51:43 PM): If he could ever show remorse, he could probably regain his claim.
VardaValar1 (5:51:53 PM): Try to make reparations.
fladrifv (5:52:17 PM) has entered the room.
fladrifv (5:52:28 PM): just to say namarie to you all :)
fladrifv (5:52:31 PM): namarie!
Eonwe Valar (5:52:36 PM): Hey Fladrif and take care.
ArPharazonV (5:52:38 PM): Namarie Flad!
fladrifv (5:52:39 PM): (had some visitors)
ArPharazonV (5:52:44 PM): I mentioned the broodwar :)
fladrifv (5:52:49 PM): yay!
fladrifv (5:53:00 PM): we need more ppl to join us!
Eonwe Valar (5:53:22 PM): I need to go afk for a few minutes.
ArPharazonV (5:53:25 PM): hehe, we need more practice, that's for sure... we got 1 ai down with 2 of us ;)
fladrifv (5:53:43 PM): ssst dont tell them the glorious victorys ;)
VardaValar1 (5:53:46 PM): Looks done anyway : )
Eonwe Valar (5:53:47 PM): Shall I bang the gavel now and usher in Aftermeeting?
Eonwe Valar (5:54:08 PM): *bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar (5:54:15 PM): Aftermeeting
Eonwe Valar (5:54:23 PM): afk for a few minutes.
fladrifv (5:54:35 PM): ok afk for 8 hours
fladrifv (5:54:51 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (5:56:11 PM): Namarie : )
ArPharazonV (5:56:18 PM): Namarie!
VardaValar1 has left the room.
Shaggyjoe has left the room.