ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, Menelvagor Valar, VardaValar1 (presiding)
Wrath of the Lich King expansion coming, link.
Achievements being added, link, somewhat like LotRO's Deeds but without the stat improvements.
Book 14 expansion arrives Tuesday.
Pre-loader available. The kinship is working hard to get members
positioned to jump into Book 14 together.
Middle-earth has a lot of humanoid races. How could
we expect the ordinary Gondorian or Lakeman to act meeting the other
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Meeting begins unofficially:
Membership begins unofficially:
Eonwe Valar: Heya Phar
: I'm not here for long, getting ready to go out to a
movie, just wanted to stop in and make sure there was someone to chair
ArPharazonV: well, ehrm...
ArPharazonV: *looks around*
ArPharazonV: not me, right?
Eonwe Valar: As far as I know, Varda will be here today, so you're fine :}
ArPharazonV: ok :-)
Eonwe Valar: I just wanted to make sure of it before I went out, since it's short of a last-minute thing.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: short = sort
Eonwe Valar: Heya Varda :}
Eonwe Valar: Not staying long, going out to a movie, just wanted to
make sure there was someone to chair the meeting before I did :}
VardaValar1: I pulled out of a Book run with Ulmo and a bunch of others, so I'm available.
VardaValar1: Can I join you at the movie? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Think you can drink 6 hours in 20 minutes? :}
Eonwe Valar: er, drive...
Eonwe Valar: Do not ask me where that came from, because I do not know.
ArPharazonV: eh, she's a Vala... Valie... what?
ArPharazonV: mere travel distance means nothing!
VardaValar1: *drinks a lake and looks up* Why?
fladrifv has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Fladrif :}
VardaValar1: Heya Fladrif : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya Fladrif
ArPharazonV: oh, I talked with Valandil
today, in wow
ArPharazonV: he wanted to come to AIM tonight but has AIM issues, I
told him what username I had him over but apparently it hasn't worked
Eonwe Valar: OK, time for me to go. Take care all and have fun :}
ArPharazonV: he also switched pcs and lost a lot of information, so I pointed him to our website
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Good idea
VardaValar1: He can pick a different username, but he'll have to contact us if he wants an invitation.
VardaValar1: He's welcome to come in on his own, but you might need to tell him how.
ArPharazonV: *nod* I'm talking to him tomorrow, we 2 and another member
from the guild we're in in WoW are going to do some lvl 60 instances
VardaValar1: Sounds fun :-)
ArPharazonV: *nod* I hope so
VardaValar1: Hey, just being with buddies is good!
ArPharazonV: true :-P
VardaValar1: I guess that was the informal Membership section.
VardaValar1: Any other Membership news?
fladrifv: Aiya all
fladrifv: you can state that the ent was late.....
ArPharazonV: don't be hasty :-)
VardaValar1: Is anyone else having trouble accessing pictures on our site?
fladrifv: not me
VardaValar1: ok, must be on my end
VardaValar1: Not working right for me on Netscape or Mozilla
VardaValar1: What are you using?
fladrifv: firefox 3.0 working fine
ArPharazonV: what do you mean with pictures?
ArPharazonV: the intro picture's working fine for me on mozilla firefox
VardaValar1: 2.0016 Firefox not happy
VardaValar1: try the Caves
.The art section.
ArPharazonV: and I'm on 22.214.171.124 :-)
VardaValar1: Ok, makes it hard to check what I'm doing, but I'll go ahead with the new upload later.
ArPharazonV: hmm, they seem to work
ArPharazonV: any single page not working for you I can test?
VardaValar1: I'm not getting any images. Valar intro page, Cave intro, etc
ArPharazonV: all working for me and we have the same firefox
VardaValar1: So it's my end
VardaValar1: Ok thanks : )
fladrifv: any setting made wrong? like dont display immages
VardaValar1: For after the upload, on web news,
VardaValar1: we will have a model of a wounded knight, Agincourt, on Deepgroover's art Cave.
VardaValar1: I thought it was not working or it would be up
VardaValar1: Thanks for the help!
VardaValar1: On to Gaming:
VardaValar1: Fladrif found a new game. Go ahead, ent buddy. : )
fladrifv: well its actually not a game
fladrifv: but more a page about multiple games
fladrifv: so its cross over with web
fladrifv: some images might not be suitable so warning for that :-)
fladrifv: its a blog about some online games
fladrifv: and the difference in between
fladrifv: interesting thoughts are mentioned about realism and amount of players
fladrifv: (lotro is mentioned aswell ;-) )
fladrifv: *hands the stage back over to varda*
VardaValar1: I'm looking at the site
VardaValar1: Seems to have quite a bit on it. Google Lively is one of the new ones.
fladrifv: also Exit Reality
VardaValar1: Seems to be about virtual reality living?
VardaValar1: It's really long
fladrifv: hihi getting hasty varda?
VardaValar1: I don't spot LotRO on that page. Is it further along?
fladrifv: Only after you drop down several million users do you start
to see MMOs and virtual worlds incorporating next gen graphics that
require high-end 3D cards for optimal viewing-- Lord of the Rings Online
VardaValar1: Is it on that link you gave? I didn't see it.
fladrifv: its on there
fladrifv: sorry still web
fladrifv: also interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_Valley
VardaValar1: ok, just don't see it.
VardaValar1: ok, looked at it.
VardaValar1: It's the idea that if it looks mostly robotic or
non-human, we notice the human-like characteristics and can feel
VardaValar1: if it seems mostly human and we expect it to be human, the
wrong aspects show up strongly, like cadavers or sickness.
VardaValar1: That's the "uncanny valley".
VardaValar1: Then it goes out the other side and seems human enough for empathy.
VardaValar1: If we actually met dwarves, elves, and orcs from Tolkien, would they have a similar problem to this?
fladrifv: its on the absolute basic level
fladrifv: like the inability to deform your face
VardaValar1: Orcs are human-like, but twisted, so we get revulsion.
VardaValar1: Elves are like an improved model of human, so we get attraction.
VardaValar1: Dwarves might be close enough but different enough to get empathy in the non-human way.
VardaValar1: Ents could be in a category with dwarves that way.
fladrifv: ents are so far away
VardaValar1: Ok, onwards. : )
VardaValar1: World of WarCraft
fladrifv: that humans will feel empathy, alle exept arpharazon
ArPharazonV: *grabs a woodman's axe*
VardaValar1: On Eonwe's Games
VardaValar1: The beta invitations for Wrath of the Lich King have begun to go out! To get in on the action, check out Blizzard's World of Warcraft Community Site!
VardaValar1: It seems the Non-Disclosure Agreement may have been lifted.
VardaValar1: Might check on that before turning in any cool reports though. : )
ArPharazonV: I think it has, but it is recommended that you only disclose beta information and not alpha
VardaValar1: I hope all of you WoW fiends get your Beta key!
ArPharazonV: not trying for one
ArPharazonV: I prefer to step in when it's finished
VardaValar1: Phar, any reports from regular WoW Argent Dawn
from you then?
VardaValar1: Helping them polish is a lot of work. We do that a lot in LotRO as it comes out, and on the Roheryn test server.
ArPharazonV: well, besides meeting Valandil which I already told you
about, I spent most of my time in WoW doing battlegrounds and, today,
delivering a libram
ArPharazonV: now nearly friendly with Shen'dralar, long way to go still :-)
VardaValar1: Just working poor old Phar. : )
ArPharazonV: oh, and just one new feature revealed for Wrath of the Lich King
ArPharazonV: which I really like to set my teeth in when it comes out
ArPharazonV: you get points and rewards and titles for all sorts of achievements when it's implemented
VardaValar1: Games page: Blizzard has announced a new feature for Wrath of the Lich King: Achievements!. Check it out here!
ArPharazonV: *points at that*
VardaValar1: Sounds great! We have that in LotRO, adds to the fun.
VardaValar1: I assume you have to pay for regular WoW to run the beta WoW?
ArPharazonV: not a clue, sorry
VardaValar1: A bit of site surfing would be in order then for those interested.
VardaValar1: On Lothar
server, lots of activity from my sons, and I even did some leveling. Fangorn hopes to be busy again next week when he's home.
server: we played hooky on Wednesday and played on Lothar. Including Elwing.
VardaValar1: Poor neglected Horde characters.
VardaValar1: In LotRO
, we have a new expansion coming out Tuesday
VardaValar1: The downloader allows pre-setup and I ran it while sleeping so am not sure how long it took.
VardaValar1: It speeds up the download of the expansion, which will be
hefty when everyone is trying to do it at once on Tuesday.
VardaValar1: So everyone is frantically trying to finish Book 13 before Book 14 comes out, so they can jump into it.
VardaValar1: Should be easy to find a group then!
VardaValar1: Any other games you want to mention?
VardaValar1: On to Tolkien:
ArPharazonV: well, I've done a few this week
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Phar
ArPharazonV: including some old ones I managed to get my hands on
ArPharazonV: Command and Conquer
; Command and Conquer: Red Alert
ArPharazonV: the first one seems bugged though, and the game crashes
whenever one of my units comes close to the northern edge of a level
VardaValar1: Oh, Eonwe requests reviews on the games you guys play.
Needs them more polished up than a copy/paste from the transcript.
ArPharazonV: which can make some missions unfinishable, which is a shame
ArPharazonV: so now I'm busy with the latter :-)
ArPharazonV: I used to have Red Alert but that was without cinematics and music, but this one's complete
VardaValar1: That would be a useful short warning you could add to the site, especially with a date.
ArPharazonV: perhaps, though I don't know much more, something with
memory which could not be read which could easily be my pc's problem
ArPharazonV: but RA is working fine so far
VardaValar1: Sounds more fun with the added bells and whistles.
ArPharazonV: and of course I've done more Guild Wars
this week, got Ascended in the Prophecies campaign, and am now pretty much at the last few phases of the campaign
ArPharazonV: after which I have some further plans: buy the other
campaigns, get the most expensive armor, do the campaign again in Hard
ArPharazonV: so I'll be busy for some time still!
ArPharazonV: and yes, RA is more fun with the cinematics etc
ArPharazonV: very similar music to RA2, in fact
VardaValar1: Before I forget, Menelvagor
will probably be sticking with WoW Europe after all, since WoW USA is a terrible raiding time zone for him.
ArPharazonV: ah, ok
VardaValar1: Menelvagor went to see Gwaihir and Gilraen, might get some pictures for us for later.
VardaValar1: Quite a traveler. I hope he's having a great time!
ArPharazonV: talked to him on msn this afternoon
ArPharazonV: 3 weeks and 10 flights, he said :-)
VardaValar1: oh cool! Does he use AIM only for meetings?
VardaValar1: That's a lot of flying!
ArPharazonV: not sure, don't see him much online on msn either
ArPharazonV: no direct flights possible anywhere, he said
VardaValar1: He has to have access to a computer.
VardaValar1: I was surprised he couldn't get a direct flight between
Houston and Dallas. Used to be a regular feature several times a day.
VardaValar1: He had to take a detour to New Orleans in Louisiana!
ArPharazonV: yep, that seems to have been the case his entire trip
VardaValar1: It seemed really weird.
VardaValar1: On to Tolkien?
ArPharazonV: heyy, he just came online on msn
ArPharazonV: not on aim though
VardaValar1: heh, wonder if he can come on AIM. Ask?
ArPharazonV: I will
VardaValar1: May not be available where he is.
ArPharazonV: he's not responding atm
ArPharazonV: continue to Tolkien?
VardaValar1: Bilbo is telling us over here that Achievements in WoW are supposed to be retroactive.
ArPharazonV: well, that makes sense
ArPharazonV: I heard an achievement for exalted with 5 capitals, or with 40 factions, in reputation
ArPharazonV: would be odd if you'd miss out on it if you already had them *before* they kicked in
ArPharazonV: same could go for some questlines
VardaValar1: Should revive some of the old instances.
ArPharazonV: oh, that too
VardaValar1: Go to Molten Core on your Level 80 for the acheivement. :-)
VardaValar1: Would be fun to go out for record times. : )
ArPharazonV: 5-manning MC
ArPharazonV: be done in 90 minutes
ArPharazonV: ah, Menel's coming
ArPharazonV: at least, he's trying :-)
VardaValar1: Earlier we were talking about how humans react to differences in others who are human-like.
VardaValar1: Middle-earth has a lot of humanoid races. How could we expect the ordinary Gondorian or Lakeman to act meeting the other races?
ArPharazonV: I assume they have had a lot of experience of living with
the other races in question, so the Lakemen might treat the Dwarves of
Erebor and the Elves of Mirkwood with respect as if they were one race?
ArPharazonV: maybe some hidden feelings, but not much that would show on the exterior
VardaValar1: Proximity to the other races would make a huge difference, true.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Menel, heya!
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya!
VardaValar1: We'll give you a recap
ArPharazonV: Aiya Menel!
Menelvagor Valar: Cool :-D
VardaValar1: VardaValar1: Earlier we were talking about how humans react to differences in others who are human-like.
Menelvagor Valar: oh wow, it even saved my US flag smilies :-D
VardaValar1: VardaValar1: Middle-earth has a lot of humanoid races. How
could we expect the ordinary Gondorian or Lakeman to act meeting the
VardaValar1: ArPharazonV: I assume they have had a lot of experience of
living with the other races in question, so the Lakemen might treat the
Dwarves of Erebor and the Elves of Mirkwood with respect as if they
were one race?
VardaValar1: ArPharazonV: maybe some hidden feelings, but not much that would show on the exterior
VardaValar1: VardaValar1: Proximity to the other races would make a huge difference, true.
VardaValar1: Now you are caught up. : )
VardaValar1: Lakemen would be used to Mirkwood elves and Erebor dwarves.
Menelvagor Valar: I would suppose the Gondorians might think the
Lakemen a bit "underdeveloped" and the Lakemen the Gondorians a bit
VardaValar1: They might find Rivendell elves quite different.
VardaValar1: True. : )
VardaValar1: Lakemen had a lot of trade, worked with the Raft-elves some.
Menelvagor Valar: Just as Sindarin differ from Noldorin Elves.
VardaValar1: Rivendell had a mix of mostly Noldor and some Sindar. But all were used to the protection of Elrond's Ring.
VardaValar1: They had a much different lifestyle.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh, and don't forget the Dunedain in Rivendell.
VardaValar1: Mirkwood had a ruling House of Sindar who had gone more or less native with the Silvans.
Menelvagor Valar: Most men thought they were sneaks and scraggly wanderers.
VardaValar1: True, and some dwarven and hobbit travelers.
ArPharazonV: but the Dunedain knew better :-)
Menelvagor Valar: And all the Elves of course :-D
VardaValar1: Dunedain were understood in Rivendell and honored.
Menelvagor Valar: Yes, but that does not change the fact they were not by other men, which I believe is the topic *grin*
VardaValar1: Mirkwood didn't have much travel, although it had trade with the Lakemen and Beornings.
ArPharazonV: the topic is humanoid races, not human races :-)
VardaValar1: So they would be considered another "race" by other men.
Menelvagor Valar: I would assume so, yes.
VardaValar1: Gondorians had much less opportunity to meet other races, other than orcs.
Menelvagor Valar: And Southrons.
VardaValar1: The Lakemen would have been much more accepting of other races than Gondorians.
VardaValar1: Southrons, human, aye.
VardaValar1: We started out talking about humanoid races meeting humans, and human reactions.
Menelvagor Valar: If memory serves, Laketown and Erebor did suffer the
occasional attack from Eastern Raider Tribes before the coming of Smaug.
ArPharazonV: hmm.... what did Rohan think about the Ents, or the Lothlorien Elves? I don't really recall
VardaValar1: The Rohirrim thought Ents were just a tale.
VardaValar1: and they were the nearest neighbors the Ents had.
Menelvagor Valar: Rohan thought of the Ents as a myth, but to be on the
safe side, they told tales about the dangers of Fangorn forest.
ArPharazonV: well, besides Isengard
VardaValar1: The Rohirrim had heard of Lothlorien and thought it was run by a witch.
ArPharazonV: they weren't very trusty of forest-dwellers, were they? ;-)
VardaValar1: I meant human neighbors. : )
Menelvagor Valar: Which, if you take Galadriel's magic into account, isn't exactly untruthful.
ArPharazonV: well... Saruman was human-ish!
VardaValar1: Their horses would be best kept to the plains, so they would see a thick forest as a wall.
VardaValar1: Saruman had the appearance of an old man, but was a Maia,
once able to look like anything that suited his spiritual nature.
VardaValar1: The Valar made his shape stable for that mission.
ArPharazonV: allright, allright, point taken :-)
VardaValar1: Galadriel did get upset about the idea that humans and
others used the word "magic" to describe what both she and Sauron did.
ArPharazonV: what about the Dunlanders?
Menelvagor Valar: Very true, but that's the way the humans saw it nevertheless.
VardaValar1: Who were the neighbors of the Dunlanders that were not human?
Menelvagor Valar: Quite a hasty people those humans.
ArPharazonV: I meant that the Dunlanders were quite near Fangorn
VardaValar1: Galadriel did use magic, just differently.
ArPharazonV: but I think I've overshot the conversation and gone off a different direction :-)
VardaValar1: The ents and entwives had not been in sight for generations of men.
VardaValar1: But once the entwives taught agriculture to men.
Menelvagor Valar: Though rumor says it one was seen on the northern borders of the Shire :-D
ArPharazonV: and they say the trees moved in the Old Forest
VardaValar1: Aye, a walking tree was said to have been seen on the
borders of the Shire, and the hobbits had put up the Hedge to keep out
trees of the Old Forest.
Menelvagor Valar: Yeah, but those were mostly of the Huorn kind.
VardaValar1: Farmer Maggot, aka Muddyfoot, traveled in the Old Forest enough to visit with Tom Bombadil.
Menelvagor Valar: Old Man Willow might have been called an Ent gone sleepish, but with a heart as black as night.
VardaValar1: A Gondorian would have a hard time believing in ents, as they were so far away.
VardaValar1: Gondorians used elvish names and words, but didn't see elves.
ArPharazonV: didn't have much to do with Dwarves either
Menelvagor Valar: A quick tiny news flash on the side here: I am
currently talking to my previous host in Nebraska and he has given me
permission to publish some pics taken while I was there on the site :-)
VardaValar1: The nearest the Gondorians came to seeing elves was the bit of elven blood in Imrahil's people.
VardaValar1: Will you be emailing them?
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.
Menelvagor Valar: At the least once I get back home.
VardaValar1: Be sure to let me know what captions to use when you do. : )
Menelvagor Valar: Which is august 1st.
VardaValar1: Quite a while yet of traveling!
Menelvagor Valar: (might need some time to get my internet working on my new comp though :P)
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: How are you holding up?
Menelvagor Valar: a bit less than 2 weeks :-)
ArPharazonV: Arnor had some good business with Elves, being right next door, and working together to fight Angmar
ArPharazonV: wow, that makes 5 weeks then?
Menelvagor Valar: I was rather tired for a couple days... but I credit
that to having a reaaallly good night's sleep in over 2 weeks :-)
ArPharazonV: and a new comp
ArPharazonV: must have cost quite a bit
Menelvagor Valar: June 29th to August 1st, yes.
VardaValar1: I was trying to keep it to humans in LotR, to keep it simple.
ArPharazonV: right, thought you might... but thought I'd mention it anyway, it was "recent" enough
ArPharazonV: and I wonder how much of that cooperation would have shone through to Gondor-relations
Menelvagor Valar: Wasn't Ithilien inhabited by Elves a long time ago?
VardaValar1: The Gondorians were driven out of Ithilien, humans, by the rising of Barad-dur again.
ArPharazonV: I... don't recall, I think the family of stewards had a home there for a while
Menelvagor Valar: Memory seems to try and tell me they abandoned it after the Last Alliance.
ArPharazonV: I do know that Elves settled there in the Fourth Age
ArPharazonV: helped rebuild it
Menelvagor Valar: And we have Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth.
VardaValar1: Aye, a colony of Mirkwood elves brought in by Prince Legolas of Mirkwood.
VardaValar1: Prince Imrahil was not an elf, but had a strain of it in his background.
ArPharazonV: or so the rumor went ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: the question then is how far removed?
ArPharazonV: oh, I think that's in Peoples of Middle-earth somewhere
ArPharazonV: a lineage
VardaValar1: Aye, a maid of Nimrodel's
Menelvagor Valar: Which somewhat shows the Elves had some dealings with the Gondorians or vice versa.
VardaValar1: When Nimrodel and her maidens were hiding in the woods, and Amroth and others were heading out on ships.
Menelvagor Valar: Or it might be some human who strayed into a scouting troupe or some such.
ArPharazonV: I think the Elves took ships from the southern shore as well at that time, indeed
VardaValar1: The maid only stayed with the man because he gave her shelter.
ArPharazonV: they might have had dealings with Gondor in that time
VardaValar1: She had children with him, but then she left, went back into the woods.
ArPharazonV: or perhaps they *would* have had dealings with Gondor in that time
VardaValar1: We know the leaving of the ships is what caused the parting of Nimrodel and Amroth.
VardaValar1: He jumped overboard to go back to her and drowned.
VardaValar1: Too far out from land.
VardaValar1: Anyway, when the Gondorians saw an elf and dwarf walking
together in the streets, they really noticed the differences between
ArPharazonV: hight? :-)
VardaValar1: That was a really obvious one, aye.
VardaValar1: One tall and slim and singing and beardless, the other
short and stocky and stroking his beard while concentrating on the
stonework of their buildings.
VardaValar1: Their differences were strongly pointed out to the Gondorians by proximity.
VardaValar1: Either one alone might not have been so obvious.
Menelvagor Valar: What was funny was Pippin in their midst though :-D
ArPharazonV: hobbits too
VardaValar1: True. They decided he had to be a prince of hobbits. :-)
ArPharazonV: well, in a way, he was :-)
ArPharazonV: heir to a large family with a fairly large territory in the Shire
Menelvagor Valar: Hobbits do not have Princes though "D
VardaValar1: He was indeed. He was the heir to be the Thain of the Shire. Not exactly a prince, but as close as they got.
VardaValar1: Meriadoc was to be the next Master of the Warren of the Brandybucks.
VardaValar1: Sam was the only "normal" one of the bunch, and he became mayor a zillion times. : )
ArPharazonV: and Sam became the elected mayor for 49 years
ArPharazonV: quite a combination those 3 would have been
ArPharazonV: helping the Shire into the fourth age :-)
ArPharazonV: at least, I think it was 49 years... 7 times elected for 7 years, I thought?
VardaValar1: Great relations with the others in the world, something the Shire hadn't had in a very long time.
Menelvagor Valar: Something they had thought to be weird, out the of the ordinary and generally a bad idea since... ever?
VardaValar1: Hobbits were much safer away from most other folk.
VardaValar1: Bree was a special case, and the Dunedain protecting them without the knowledge of most.
VardaValar1: Hobbits did send archers to help in the wars, and gave respect to the King.
ArPharazonV: Bree was a fine mix of hobbits and humans, I'm sure they didn't think strangely of each other
VardaValar1: Everything would be better "when the King comes again" was a saying.
Menelvagor Valar: Not to mention it had plenty of Dwarven travelers.
ArPharazonV: the saying was right ;-)
VardaValar1: Aye : )
VardaValar1: The Shire had Elves and Dwarves passing through, but not really staying.
VardaValar1: Although that weird Bag End did get such visitors.
VardaValar1: Maybe I should call my house Bag End...
VardaValar1: Sorry you didn't get to meet Gimli while you were at my house. He would've loved to meet you.
VardaValar1: Meriadoc was hoping to drop in too, didn't work out.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh well... If there's a next time, I am sure we can figure something out.
VardaValar1: Meet online. :-)
VardaValar1: This is a great way to meet people from all over.
VardaValar1: but I am being called away to feed people.
ArPharazonV: enjoy your feed!
VardaValar1: Please feel free to enjoy chatting with each other!
Menelvagor Valar: Enjoy :-)
Menelvagor Valar: And give Sauron my warmest regards :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Very hot... like a few million degrees centigrade...
Menelvagor Valar: And an evil smile I know he'll love *grin*
VardaValar1: You bet!
VardaValar1: He's away at a D&D game, but it will be passed on.
Menelvagor Valar: Okidokey :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Bon appetit :-)
Menelvagor Valar: And sleep well Pharzie :-)
VardaValar1 has left the room.
fladrifv has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.