February 24, 2008 Meeting
5pm EST (GMT - 5);
(GMT = 22:00)
Back to News
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon and Varda
AuSteinM-(TV)/austeinM, Eonwe Valar, Fladrifv,
Glorfindel VG, FarmerMaggot-(V)/
JMVfromLV, VardaValar1 (presiding)
Meneldil is active again and joined us on LotRO during the meeting.
Webspace offer from Fladrif-(V)
How do death and immortality play a part in Tolkien's world?
Spam hitting members:
Should the old Membership pages be removed from the net?
Did more scrambling on the current Membership page for protection.
Fastitocalon the turtle-fish of a hobbit poem. Several references.
Dumping the Ring in the sea
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Fladrifv has entered the room.
Fladrifv: Hail all
Fladrifv: I was under the impression to be the first...
Fladrifv: next time I join saterday evening ;-)
ArPharazonV: so was I, about 2 minutes ago ;-)
ArPharazonV: blame Sarujil, I bet he came online this morning
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
austeinM has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
Eonwe Valar: How goes it?
austeinM: Pretty well, it's been a while
Eonwe Valar: Well, welcome back :}
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
VardaValar1: brb - hi folks :-)
VardaValar1: Guess I wasn't the only one afk
VardaValar1: Heya AuStein :-)
Fladrifv: *waves* Im awake tonight
VardaValar1: The ent is awake! Yay!
Fladrifv: it seems that for a change all the others are asleep
ArPharazonV: me? no
ArPharazonV: just biding my time...
VardaValar1: I am digging up stuff for the reports. Ok, finishing invites. Sorry, rl delays all at the same time.
VardaValar1: Some invites just plain say "failed".
VardaValar1: Ok, going to start now.
Fladrifv: sounds to me like an accurate description
austeinM: if they're online, this means their client either isn't doing chatrooms or you've been sending too many
VardaValar1: No more than usual, but thanks.
VardaValar1: Might not want to be in our chatroom anymore.
VardaValar1: okies, very glad you folks could come. : )
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
VardaValar1: Membership news
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien : )
VardaValar1: Ancalagon, Ar-Pharazon, Fladrif, Eowne, AuStein, and Arien
all get golden rays of sunshine for today for taking the trouble to
come! Thanks. :-)
ArPharazonV: lots of A's, hmm...
VardaValar1: True - expect mistakes!
VardaValar1: Ulmo had a birthday this week, I keep meaning to wish him happy birthday. : )
VardaValar1: Any other member news?
VardaValar1: Lots happened on the Tolkien Site this week.
VardaValar1: We put more artwork on AuStein's server. : )
VardaValar1: Elwing-(V) drew "Gift of the Evenstar"
VardaValar1: Young Arwen with Celebrian.
thesirg3 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer : )
AriehnV: aiya there
VardaValar1: The artwork is at
VardaValar1: Elwing's art site has also been redone to load faster.
VardaValar1: We have two meaty articles this week
Fladrifv: nice work!, the artwork that is :-)
VardaValar1: She will be tickled to hear that. : )
VardaValar1: Franco Manni-(TV) sent in "Real and Imaginary History in Lord of the Rings"
VardaValar1: He's Italian and had Jimmy Bishop translate it to English for us.
VardaValar1: Franco says he can handle emails, but not a work like that. : )
VardaValar1: The other article is from Amaranth-(V), also plays LotRO some with us.
VardaValar1: "Death in Tolkien's Legendarium"
VardaValar1: Under Poetry, Branwyn-(TV) sent in "Burning Your Bridges"
VardaValar1: Her favorite subjects tend to be somewhat dark, well-done, and usually concerning Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir.
VardaValar1: But she doesn't stick just to that. : )
VardaValar1: Played catch up on her short stories and drabbles, mostly drabbles this week.
VardaValar1: Rather than burying you under titles, here's a link to her
Author's Page which includes all the updates near the top.
VardaValar1: Not all have been added into the chronological section below the updates yet.
VardaValar1: Fladrif has some web news. : )
Fladrifv: I would like to offer some webspace
Fladrifv: to help the website to a new level :-)
VardaValar1: We are nearly full up on the valarguild.org server, so that is very timely.
Fladrifv: we need to test ofcourse how stable it is but otherwise it is an aditional 750 mb hosting
VardaValar1: I believe you said it is not for hosting music files?
Fladrifv: no that is the other one this one should be fine
Fladrifv: let me test that right away
VardaValar1: The music files ate up most of the space we had left there. Text doesn't take much.
VardaValar1: AusStein has been hosting the art, saved us from overloading long ago!
VardaValar1: Aye what? : )
Fladrifv: on that text is not an as big saver as music :-)
VardaValar1: Text takes very little space, aye.
Fladrifv: That was it for now, I will come back after testing the idea :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you, Fladrif. That is very generous.
VardaValar1: Who played something besides WoW or LotRO this past week? : )
ArPharazonV: some online games
VardaValar1: Sauron was on BroodWar.
ArPharazonV: like Wogger and Samorost
VardaValar1: Bilbo was on Team Fortress 2
ArPharazonV: very stylish point-and-click puzzle games
VardaValar1: Stylish? : )
ArPharazonV: *nod* very... how would one put it... atmospheric?
VardaValar1: Sounds like good graphics, not purely a puzzle.
ArPharazonV: *shrug* look them up on the internet and you'll see for yourself :-)
ArPharazonV: *nod* quite
ArPharazonV: also did some more Zuma, got to stage 11 out of 13
ArPharazonV: after being stuck on 9 for quite a bit
VardaValar1: I know some were playing Eve Online and Star Wars Galaxies.
VardaValar1: On to WoW
VardaValar1: Arien, do you have an Argent Dawn report for Europe?
VardaValar1: Guess she's afk
VardaValar1: Pharazon, are you there?
ArPharazonV: hmm, I am
AriehnV: errr sorry fell asleep :-(
ArPharazonV: not much happened that i know of (though Arien or other
people might have done something), Valarguild-wise, but I believe Arien
said earlier this week that she had seen Menelvagor back online
ArPharazonV: ah, there we go
ArPharazonV: you can tell the details :-)
AriehnV: aye :-)
VardaValar1: Good to hear. : )
AriehnV: was online thursday at first when i saw him back in the channel
AriehnV: i was not sure about the identity so i asked him a few questions about the guild or rather he offered it himself
AriehnV: named Varda and Eonwe as chairpeople and was pretty close to
the founding date in the actual date if he was completely out with the
AriehnV: but that and his way of speaking to me got me pretty sure that it was the real menel
AriehnV: also the fact that he seems to hang around a lot in shattered halls on anarore makes it pretty sure ;-)_
VardaValar1: Thanks, Arien. : )
VardaValar1: (I saw Arien in LotRO.)
VardaValar1: Anything else that you would like to tell about Argent Dawn?
AriehnV: nah nothing anymore valarguild wise .. well i was aq bit
active on my hunter who is in the valarguild but was solo actiong or
grouping with a mate from HoH
VardaValar1: Nice : )
AriehnV: hehe doubt that the horde sah it like that *dry*
AriehnV: but she is doing fine
AriehnV: so this end s my report L:-)_
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien. : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, do you have a Lothar server report?
Eonwe Valar: I was able to come in Friday, but at a late hour.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar had been down for a while.
Eonwe Valar: Elwing told me she spent that time on Uldaman.
JMVfromLV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: One reason we have Uldaman server, aye. : )
VardaValar1: Greetings, JMV
JMVfromLV: Hail, Valar Guild.
VardaValar1: May we be of service?
Eonwe Valar: I got my Priest to 61 and to Friendly with Honor Hold by
farming Shattered Hand orcs, in an attempt to get all my quest rep to
kick me up to Revered.
JMVfromLV: I'm an old member who's interested in rejoining the guild (again). I was Meneldil before...
ArPharazonV: Meneldil? sounds familiar
VardaValar1: That would be excellent. : )
JMVfromLV: Haha, yep.
JMVfromLV: It's been a long while though.
VardaValar1: We drop folks when we can't contact them. Rare for one to be dropped otherwise.
JMVfromLV: Work schedule changed (the library is now closed on Sunday), so now I can join you guys in the weekly chats. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Cool :}
VardaValar1: We have other ways to be with us besides the chats, which may help.
Eonwe Valar: Menethil, what state were you from?
JMVfromLV: Great to see the guild still active... I've just bought LotRO as well.
Eonwe Valar: or country if not USA?
JMVfromLV: Nevada.. just outside of Las Vegas.
VardaValar1: LotRO is our next report. : )
Eonwe Valar: What's your e-mail?
VardaValar1: We are on Landroval server
VardaValar1: Aye, I remember you. : )
Eonwe Valar: Workplace site?
ArPharazonV: still active? we're always active!
VardaValar1: We have been active for over 10 years and still going strong.
Eonwe Valar: It looks like you're still on the books, except the workplace site is different.
JMVfromLV: Yes, they've gotten a new domain name.
VardaValar1: I haven't cleared the inactives for this year yet. Slacker me.
JMVfromLV: Sorry for disrupting the meeting, by the way... I can rejoin later, so that you guys can contine on.
JMVfromLV: Internet's been down for the past two hours, as I would've been here earlier.
VardaValar1: if you can
JMVfromLV: I will, definitely.
Eonwe Valar: While Varda is busy with meneldil, I will continue the meeting.
VardaValar1: Eonwe has some interesting news on LotRO, go ahead Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: That works too :}
VardaValar1: Ancalagon and I have some LotRO comments also.
Eonwe Valar: It seems that Turbine has talked with Tolkien Enterprises, and got its license extended.
Eonwe Valar: It can now develop MMOs based on Hobbit and LotRo until 2014, with options to extend until 2017.
Eonwe Valar: So LotRO shouldn't be going away anytime soon :}
Eonwe Valar: For those intersted in reading the info right from the LotRO page, here: http://lotro.turbine.com/article/503
Eonwe Valar: It mentions the two upcoming Hobbit films.
Eonwe Valar: mentions only, no descriptiosn.
Eonwe Valar: That's it from me.
VardaValar1: Thanks Eonwe : )
VardaValar1: Ancalagon seems to be afk, so I'll take it for a bit.
VardaValar1: Monday LotRO will be down in the morning as Turbine is doing maintenance on all servers.
VardaValar1: Friday, we will be doing a Carn Dum run starting around 8pm EST.
VardaValar1: This is for the high levels.
VardaValar1: We are also doing runs during the week to pick up the new trophies for the kinhouse.
VardaValar1: We are also helping people with the books, especially book 12.
VardaValar1: Anc, Gorlim, and I were in Book 12 just before the meeting.
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Hail Glorfindel. : )
Glorfindel VG: hello : )
VardaValar1: Does anyone have any further business or comments before we switch to Tolkien chat?
VardaValar1: Moving on to Tolkien : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe will be chairing this section for a bit, and if you
folks want, you can discuss the ideas brought up in this week's two
articles, or the stories or poems or art. : )
Eonwe Valar: So, do those give anyone any ideas for topics, or shall I come up with one? :}
ArPharazonV: go ahead ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Ok,.. How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Tootsiepop? :}
Eonwe Valar: Alas is not a number :}
Fladrifv: can be translated in asci numbers though
Glorfindel VG: 3
Eonwe Valar: Glorfindel is correct, because the fourth is actually a bite :}
Glorfindel VG: woo
AriehnV: *looks confunded again*
Eonwe Valar: ok, now to back to Tolkien :}
Eonwe Valar: It's from a commercial, Arien :}
Eonwe Valar: a Tootsie roll is sort of a taffy-like piece of chocolate.
Eonwe Valar: They also have lolliepops with tootsie roll centers.
JMVfromLV: Ah, memories of that owl...
Eonwe Valar: The commercial would always ask at the end "How many licks
does it take to get to the Tootsie roll center of a Tootsieroll
Tootsiepop? The world may never know?"
Eonwe Valar: The reason being because the average person would've
bitten the lolliepop to get to the center long before licking it
would've resulted in the same.
Glorfindel VG: ive eaten a blow pop without biting :o
Glorfindel VG: but never a tootsie pop
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, back to seriousness, back to Tolkien :}
Eonwe Valar: Homework assignment for next week: Read Real and Imaginary History in Lord of the Rings by Franco Manni-TV :} It's a long read and so would take a while before getting to a discussion right now.
AriehnV: *grins *
AriehnV: i ve started reading it actually since i am very interested in history
Eonwe Valar: Might be worth a discussion topic though, so if you do have time during the week, you know where to find it :}
AriehnV: and its looking fascinating ..
Eonwe Valar: Excellent :}
AriehnV: aye but save it for another tine
Eonwe Valar: Aye, which is why I suggested reading it over the week if anyone gets the chance :}
Eonwe Valar: Dare anyone wish to delve into the topic of death in Tolkien's world? :}
Eonwe Valar: Death and immortality?
Glorfindel VG: aye lets do it
Eonwe Valar: Ok Glorfindel, start us off :} How does it play a part in Tolkien's world?
Glorfindel VG: but you should get the ball rolling
Eonwe Valar: "People die." doesn't count :}
Eonwe Valar: I just got the ball rolling by asking how it plays a part in Tolkien's world :}
Glorfindel VG: well there's the men who have the "gift" of death
Glorfindel VG: so no one really knows what happens to them
VardaValar1: For earlier, Eonwe, the answer is 42.
Eonwe Valar: I bet that answer is accurate, too :}
Glorfindel VG: and alot of times it seems to be a sort of barrier to the races
VardaValar1: Death is like a gateway, in Tolkien. Not smacking into a wall and ending.
Eonwe Valar: (Now opening up to the entire floor) what about death for those not Men?
Eonwe Valar: And actually, it is known that Man will join in the Second Music, so we do know what happens to them :}
ArPharazonV: Elves don't die forever, but their bodies might be slain,
in which case they must travel to the halls of Mandos, to stay there
for varying intervals
Glorfindel VG: they go off to the halls of mandos
ArPharazonV: Dwarves, when dead, go to the halls of Aule
VardaValar1: Grief can also kill Elves.
Eonwe Valar: Why don't Elves die forever?
VardaValar1: Elves have a fea/spirit that returns to Valinor, to Mandos.
VardaValar1: The hroar, body, is an exact fit for the fea.
Eonwe Valar: Men have a fëa as well?
AriehnV: Elves are the first born children of Eru
VardaValar1: So a new hroar is made for the Elf, an exact fit. Thus it
can't be a baby or look much different, except as the death experience
changed the fea.
Eonwe Valar: So if both have a fëa, why can Elves not die and Men can?
VardaValar1: Elves were made with the concept of beauty in mind,
originally intended for Middle-earth, but fear of their danger from
Melkor made the Valar try to bring them all to the safety of Valinor.
Eonwe Valar: *die forever
AriehnV: death is eru 's gift to men
VardaValar1: Man bodies don't exactly fit the fea, as they wither instead.
AriehnV: death certainly isnt pictured as something horrilble we have to fear
VardaValar1: So the fea is free to leave the Circles of the World
VardaValar1: Aye, Arien.
Eonwe Valar: So why was it feared?
ArPharazonV: quite different from my time...
VardaValar1: Dwarves are supposed to help Aule build the new world after the current one passes away.
VardaValar1: Lies by Melkor who sought to use fear to control others.
ArPharazonV: Men feared death for they knew not what came after
Eonwe Valar: Was it feared by all?
ArPharazonV: and indeed, lies by Melkor made it out to be a terrible thing
AriehnV: no .. i dont think that the first kings of Numenor feared death
Eonwe Valar: What actions did fear of death bring about?
Glorfindel VG: murder and more death
AriehnV: they gave up their throne and life willingly , so did aragorn when he regained the throne for aRNOR
Eonwe Valar: When I say "feared by all" I mean all peoples.
VardaValar1: Sauron made the Numenoreans jealous of the long lives of Elves.
AriehnV: and gondor
Eonwe Valar: Ah, so death vs the apparent immortality of the Elves became a point of contention.
ArPharazonV: I think it was before Sauron that the shadow really fell on the Numenoreans, though
Eonwe Valar: Why not be jealous of the Dwarves?
VardaValar1: The point of death seems to be so that everyone would be
able to join in after learning what the song really meant to make the
new world as Eru truly intended.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, the shadow began to fall before Sauron set foot on Numenor.
VardaValar1: Dwarves are not so beautiful nor so visible.
ArPharazonV: because Dwarves live limited lifespans too, and their fate too is unknown to Men
ArPharazonV: they probably felt they had nothing to be jealous of
Eonwe Valar: But their bodies are tougher.
ArPharazonV: and yet failing in the end
ArPharazonV: the first Numenoreans were quite on par with the Dwarves in lifestyle, I think.. at least their Kings were
Glorfindel VG: well wouldn't you rather be an elf than a dwarf ; )
Glorfindel VG: i know i would
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Why not be envious of the Ents?
ArPharazonV: lifestyle? I meant lifespan
VardaValar1: Dwarves aged, elves didn't seem to although they became wearier of the world.
VardaValar1: Most were unaware of ents.
ArPharazonV: guess I'm tired already :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Glorfindel VG: it suited saurons purpose best anyway to turn the men against the elves
Eonwe Valar: And he got some more servants out of it in the process.
Eonwe Valar: So Men Envied Elves. Did Elves envy Men? What about Dwarves?
Sarujil has left the room.
AriehnV: i think in a different way ..
AriehnV: death and the idea didnt suit the mentality of the dwarves
AriehnV: gems .. splendour .. art i guess
VardaValar1: Men envied the ability to leave the world, after they became weary of it.
AriehnV: and gold
VardaValar1: Dwarves keep pretty quiet, but only seemed to envy certain possessions, such as gold or silmaril.
Glorfindel VG: does anyone envy hobbits :o
JMVfromLV: I think it'd be nice to live a simple life...
ArPharazonV: their simplicity, perhaps, their being content with a simple life, aye
Eonwe Valar: So why did Dwarves not seem to envy Men or Elves?
VardaValar1: Perhaps Rangers sometimes envied the protected status, when they were cold and in danger and feeling unloved.
Eonwe Valar: And aye, Hobbits seem to be pretty laid-back about death
as well. None seem to realy grasp at straws trying to try alive.
VardaValar1: Dwarves were so reclusive they may not have seen much of Elves or Men to unsettle them.
Glorfindel VG: dwarves were made to be that way, and really dont have a huge interest in elves or mens interests
Glorfindel VG: but men and elves are kind of more similar
Glorfindel VG: except that elves are greater in most ways
VardaValar1: Er, I meant Elves envied the ability to leave the world, after they became weary of it.
VardaValar1: Elves became stagnant after a time.
AriehnV: aye i remember that someone said it in the books .. was it during the stay at Gildor's camp?
VardaValar1: I think that may stagnation may have been one of the greatest ills brought by the Rings.
AriehnV: in Book one .. chapter .. four
AriehnV: or three
VardaValar1: Eonwe says he crashed out. Trying to return.
VardaValar1: The hobbits gave Gildor's group new purpose, to give warnings.
VardaValar1: They were on their way to leave Arda, but then they needed to send out the messages.
AriehnV: ah aye i see
VardaValar1: I wonder if they just did it telepathically and kept going, or turned aside with new purpose?
VardaValar1: On a side note, Meneldil is now in the Intro quest in LotRO on Landroval server, as Menelglaer.
VardaValar1: -glaer for singer for his minstrel. : )
JMVfromLV: Fear me, silly Dourhand dwarves and goblins.
JMVfromLV: *fiddles a country song*
VardaValar1: I am going to go find some supper and join you folks in LotRO shortly.
VardaValar1: Arien will probably need to go to sleep, already hit the keyboard once. :-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe is still trying to come back into AIM.
VardaValar1: Gilraen just came online in AIM.
VardaValar1: afk for now
ArPharazonV: I'll need to sleep too, will finish something in firefox and then save/send/leave
VardaValar1: Eonwe is going to re-log and try to return.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar : )
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Darn AIM kicked me out of the room and then wouldn't let me back in ,claiming I was still here.
thesirg3 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Anyone still here?
VardaValar1: kind of here : )
VardaValar1: I have to upload Membership page with update
Eonwe Valar: Did we go into After-meeting while I was gone, or is there anything still to comment on the topic?
VardaValar1: oh, we are getting spam mail, I belive, on members' names, for college funding.
VardaValar1: I am trying to find ways to prevent spammers from easily harvesting our mails
VardaValar1: Considering dropping the old membership pages off the net, comment?
Eonwe Valar: the "AT" instead of "@" didn't work?
VardaValar1: We just got that recent collection of college funding
spam, and it has a long list including a mix-in with our members' names.
Eonwe Valar: I guess dropping the old Membership pages off the net
would be a good way to prevent former members from getting it, but what
about those on the current membership?
VardaValar1: Got two this weekend
Sarujil has entered the room.
VardaValar1: I am doing even more messing with the emails.
VardaValar1: (dot) where there is a . and (ml) for mail
Glorfindel VG: 5 spam emails or 50 doesnt matter i just empty my bulk mail daily without even looking at them
Eonwe Valar: I don't recall getting anything like that, maybe I just deleted it without really looking at it.
Eonwe Valar: Or I got lucky, heh.
Eonwe Valar: But aye, let's do what we can to keep members from having to deal with it.
VardaValar1: bulk mails can come from Eonwe : )
Glorfindel VG: yeah thats happened to me before
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I send out the GPMU e-mail to about 20 or so people at a time.
Glorfindel VG: where i was getting bounce back spam from messages i never sent
VardaValar1: I also have multiple mails for the end of the year, do we count you in for the next year.
Eonwe Valar: It'd be too much trouble to send 100+ individually addressed e-mails.
VardaValar1: We also put those mails on the News, and that is another way to let you know to respond.
JMVfromLV: I might've gotten spam, but Gmail keeps it from me fairy well.
VardaValar1: Or since you know the drill, just tell us. : )
VardaValar1: Aye, gmail has been a huge help to me.
VardaValar1: Membership page updated for Meneldil and Fladrif's email.
VardaValar1: *slips away to the kitchen*
JMVfromLV: Thanks, Varda :-)
VardaValar1: We do seem to have drifted into After-meeting shortly after your crash, Eonwe.
VardaValar1: My pleasure. Thanks for coming here!
VardaValar1: and LotRO. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
JMVfromLV: Thanks for welcoming me back.
Glorfindel VG: if we are in after meeting now
VardaValar1: We are
VardaValar1: I am back and forth
VardaValar1: Doesn't keep us from talking Tolkien ;-)
Glorfindel VG: I'm feeling like pizza right now
VardaValar1: You should not say that when I'm hungry.
Glorfindel VG: can someone tell me what is better between dominoes and pizza hut and papa johns
JMVfromLV: Frozen fettucini alfredo for me tonight.
VardaValar1: peanut butter and jelly? :-)
JMVfromLV: I haven't had Domino's in forever, but I remember their pizza was like cardboard.
JMVfromLV: That was a long time ago though.
Glorfindel VG: yeah its been too long for me for any of them
Glorfindel VG: so thats why i need some advise
Eonwe Valar: Oh,.I found a name for my Orcs Hunter's pet Turtle should i level him up high enough to get one :}
Glorfindel VG: but i suddenly had a desire for pizza
AriehnV: all right folks guess i got to go :-(
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien :}
AriehnV: .bed is calling
AriehnV: thanks you too :-)
AriehnV: Namarie all !
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: what name?
Eonwe Valar: Fastitocalon:last of the turtle-fish in a Hobbit poem of the same name :}
VardaValar1: If you don't like the pizza, pile up cheese and sausage of your own on it. Should fix it. : )
VardaValar1: ohhh, haven't heard that in an Age!
Glorfindel VG: its worth a try
Glorfindel VG: bye bye all
Glorfindel VG has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Take care Glorfindel :}
ArPharazonV: where... what... where's that poem located?
Eonwe Valar: Now that I have a name ,I just have to get a chance to level my hunter up enough to get the turtle I want :}
Eonwe Valar: "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil"
ArPharazonV: ah, figures
ArPharazonV: *makes a note to get that one*
VardaValar1: Reasons to game. : )
Eonwe Valar: Apparently some sailors mistook its shell for an island, ended up drowning when the turtle went under.
Eonwe Valar: My Complete Guide suggests it's a nonsensical poem, my Tolkien Bestiary suggests it's a reference to Numenor.
Eonwe Valar: Both of which are Third party sources, so neither can be trusted as the difinitive word :}
Eonwe Valar: Afk for a moment.
ArPharazonV: in other words, we'll never know!
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
JMVfromLV: Woohoo... card-carrying member of the guild in LotRO.
JMVfromLV: Thanks, Ancalagon!
ArPharazonV: ok, allright, I'm saving and sending
VardaValar1: yay Meneldil!
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, I was thinking
Eonwe Valar: back
Eonwe Valar: Yes?
VardaValar1: when Bombadil says
VardaValar1: in a song that when he met Goldberry, her "heart was beating"
VardaValar1: that it implies that at some time, her heart was not beating.
VardaValar1: You've heard this part before, where I suggested it meant she was a rusalka.
VardaValar1: a Russian term for a drowned woman tied to a location.
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: If she were such a being, that would explain why Tom stayed in that spot too, although a Maia able to easily leave.
Eonwe Valar: Interesting thought.
VardaValar1: So he set himself up in that spot, made it safe for her and himself, and more or less dropped whatever was outside.
Eonwe Valar: How does this fit with the "Riverwoman's daughter" comment?
VardaValar1: Thus he had no further ambition, and the Ring had no power over him.
VardaValar1: Several possibilities.
VardaValar1: A woman living on the river, a human probably, had the daughter that drowned.
Fladrifv: If you seek the ent, he has become treeish for tonight, namarie all
ArPharazonV: be sure to save the rest of this conversation, it looks interesting, Varda
VardaValar1: The riverwoman could be a Maia who had the daughter.
VardaValar1: Good night, Fladrif :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar.
VardaValar1: Feed me and I can think again. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Fladrif.
ArPharazonV: so I'm looking forward to seeing the rest, I hope you quilt it behind it!
Fladrifv: trans saved if there is need of
VardaValar1: If the riverwoman had a daughter by a human, that might
explain why Goldberry seemed more of the earth than the elves did.
Eonwe Valar: So then the Maia would've fallen in love with a mortal or Elf?
VardaValar1: I'm a deluxe quilter, Phar. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Perhaps.
VardaValar1: I would guess mortal, since Frodo commented that Goldberry was not so high feeling to him as the elves.
VardaValar1: It's just speculation. : )
Eonwe Valar: AThe Maia blood would have to account for somethign though.
VardaValar1: If she were half-Maia, she would live and be suitable for Tom.
VardaValar1: But she might not be able or not want to go to Valinor.
VardaValar1: Again, Tom has a reason to stay.
VardaValar1: He's the mossy rock to Gandalf's rolling stone.
Eonwe Valar: On the assumption Tom Bombadil is a Maia, I have trouble
believing he would have been affected by the Ring anyway, since the
Ring was a physical manifestation of another Maia's power.
VardaValar1: Gandalf knows him well and goes to visit him at the end of
RotK, while the Hobbits go to the Shire for the adventure he knows
VardaValar1: I agree that Tom would not be affected by the Ring in any case.
VardaValar1: This was an extra, not the main reason.
VardaValar1: Bombadil would have his full power and memory, unlike the Istari.
VardaValar1: Yet he was not one of the greatest powers, I would say, from comments made in the Council of Elrond.
VardaValar1: Do I need to dig those up? : )
VardaValar1: phone, pardon
Eonwe Valar: The implication is that Tom would be able to stand against Sauron the longest.
Eonwe Valar: afk for a quick moment as well.
ArPharazonV: Namarie all!
VardaValar1: He would be last as he was first
Fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: see you next week
VardaValar1: He would also not be a primary target, as he was not much interested in the world
VardaValar1: okies :-)
ArPharazonV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: back
Eonwe Valar: If he took the Ring, he would be the primary target with
all the lesser targets of Elves, Dwarves, and Men getting in the way to
slow the approach.
VardaValar1: here we go
VardaValar1: aye, Eonwe
VardaValar1: Gandalf says that even if Bombadil would keep and guard it, "the Lord of the Rings would learn of its hiding place and would bend all his power towards it.
VardaValar1: "Could that power be defied by Bombadil alone?
VardaValar1: "I think not.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: "I think that in the end, if all else is conquered, Bombadil will fall, Last as he was First; and then Night will come."
Eonwe Valar: If every kingdom went on defense, Sauron could bypass most
of them and focus his efforts on Bombadil. This is the situation his
sowing hatred and mistrust among the races was going to bring.
VardaValar1: He could go straight for whomever held it, as Elrond understood and knew he could not guard it in Rivendell either.
VardaValar1: Well, that was my stray thought over peanut butter and jelly. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: It is an interesting thought about Goldberry.
VardaValar1: Will you be going back to work now? Or can you come onto LotRO and kill a few pixels for a bit?
VardaValar1: Thanks, she was the one I was mainly thinking about.
Eonwe Valar: I might could pop on to LotRo briefly, but not long.
Eonwe Valar: Maybe they should've tossed the Ring into the Sea after all.....
VardaValar1: It would probably have washed back in.
Eonwe Valar: To be recovered by Fastitocalon :}
VardaValar1: The lake was at least still
Eonwe Valar: Sauron could never hope to defeat a giant turtle in the ocean :}
VardaValar1: Aye some stray turtle or hobbit would find it. : )
VardaValar1: hmm, turtle soup.
Eonwe Valar: bah :}
Eonwe Valar: more like Sauron soup :}
VardaValar1: If he ate it, he might also unload it. *ahem*
VardaValar1: Okies, going to turn off this AIM chat and go to the gaming computer for a bit. : )
Eonwe Valar: Have fun :}
VardaValar1: ok :-)