Valar Guild

December 14, 2008 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

Back to News
Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (9)
    Aerandir V, AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, luthienathariel, Menelvagor Valar, pallandovalar, VardaValar1 (presiding)

    What would we like to do special for Christmas?
    The Avari

(Times are in CST. Please add one hour for EST. Funny boxes were smiley faces.)
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (3:55:20 PM) has entered the room.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: will be semi-afk, finishing a report for tomorrow
VardaValar1: cool :-)
fladrifv has entered the room.
fladrifv: Aiya
ArPharazonV: aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif :-)
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: Is Flad having comp problems?
VardaValar1: I just pulled out of LotRO, going to start the invites.
ArPharazonV: he seems to still be in AIM
ArPharazonV: maybe pressed the wrong button?
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: happens :-)
VardaValar1: Aiyata, Fladrif :-)
pallandovalar has entered the room.
oessala has entered the room.
orodrethv has entered the room.
luthienathariel has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Luthien and Pallando :-)
fladrifv: Aiyata, aiya all new ones
luthienathariel: Utúlien aurë!
ArPharazonV: Aiya Luthien and Pallando
ArPharazonV: ..back to afk
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Aerandir V: aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Aerandir!

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership news:
luthienathariel: ahhh
luthienathariel: :-)
VardaValar1: Does anyone have any news they'd like to pass on? : )
VardaValar1: I don't have an email from Eonwe, so he may just be late.
VardaValar1: Web:
fladrifv: for all that might have missed it, Christmass is coming!
fladrifv: sorry varda
VardaValar1: Aye, Flad!
VardaValar1: Tickled someone answered. :-)
VardaValar1: Anything we might do special for Christmas or after?
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, aiya!
luthienathariel: er
Eonwe Valar: Heya
VardaValar1: Flad is having a hard time staying in the room. Quit using the trapdoor on him.
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: Fladrif just mentioned Christmas.

VardaValar1: Maybe we could put up something special on the site?
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back
fladrifv: I suffer from minor sleepyness it seems
luthienathariel: *automatic ent welcome back greeting mode enabled* heya flad
VardaValar1: Some special art, poetry, stories, web pretties?
VardaValar1: heheh Luthien. Good idea!
luthienathariel: I can share that poem on the website if you want it
fladrifv: a star shines in the west over middle earth
VardaValar1: Gamers have winter festivities of course.
fladrifv: who o who is going to follow it?
VardaValar1: Anything Middle-earth based is of interest, Luthien. :-)
VardaValar1: Only the Wise.
luthienathariel: good, I will send it
VardaValar1: My email is always open. :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you.
fladrifv: does gandalf count for 3?
luthienathariel: lol
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Two maybe: grey and white?
VardaValar1: That did combine Membership and Web. Yay us. :-)
fladrifv: truely chrismass thinking, you want already now split him in half?
VardaValar1: Eonwe, did you have anything to mention?
VardaValar1: Maybe split screen? : )
Eonwe Valar: Nothing at the moment fopr web and/or membership.
VardaValar1: Glad you could make it!
VardaValar1: Anyone else?

VardaValar1: Gaming:
pallandovalar: I got nothing, really.
VardaValar1: You just think you don't. : )
VardaValar1: What games have we played this last week besides WoW and LotRO?
VardaValar1: Anyone?
fladrifv: long list
pallandovalar: Gaming, I'm back in WoS because I've moved rooms and have nowhere to setup my gaming computer, so I'm on my laptop now.
VardaValar1: Yikes! Where's a big box? : )
fladrifv: actually: Red allert 3 , chess, starcraft , warcraft3
VardaValar1: Well of Souls. Flad, you could join him there. : )
fladrifv: that might be a good idea indeed
ArPharazonV: I haven't played a darn thing, been a rather busy week at times
ArPharazonV: got some WoW in but not much
VardaValar1: Coming up on Christmas, it'll be busy for most of us.
fladrifv: due to this I dont know what my uptimes will be online wise
VardaValar1: You two could look for each other on AIM?
fladrifv: *nods*
VardaValar1: Any more games you want to mention?
fladrifv: wasnt my list long enough?
fladrifv: ;-)
VardaValar1: Why yes, yes it was. :-)
VardaValar1: On to WoW
VardaValar1: Eonwe, go ahead.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: First, there's a new patch on the PTR this week.
Eonwe Valar: Some nice changes are in there.
Eonwe Valar: PTR = Public Test Realm for those who may not know.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya!
Menelvagor Valar: Excuse my tardiness
Eonwe Valar: Among the changes that I like are the changes to some of the old world dungeons like Uldamans..
VardaValar1: Aiya Menelvagor : )
Eonwe Valar: *Uldaman.
Eonwe Valar: You won't need 3 people to summon the final boss anymore.
Menelvagor Valar: w00t!
Eonwe Valar: Another one is that race restrictions on mounts are being removed.
VardaValar1: Why?
VardaValar1: Sounds like maybe whiners?
Eonwe Valar: So that people can complete it without too much help.
Menelvagor Valar: Uhm... yay!
VardaValar1: I meant mounts
Menelvagor Valar: That means my Shammy can ride Mechano-striders soon!
Eonwe Valar: Well, there's an Achievement that requires 100 mounts, and this makes it a tad easier.
Eonwe Valar: Means that Mechano-striders can be ridden by all alliance, and raptors by all horde.
VardaValar1: So just let the lore-side die, or do they give an excuse?
Menelvagor Valar: Alliance kicked the Gnomes hard enough that they make larger Striders?
Eonwe Valar: You still have to be exalted with that faction to get the mount.
VardaValar1: Maybe it's part of the newfound togetherness in the face of the common enemy.
ArPharazonV: *shrug* maybe the Striders have been upgraded to hold more weight
Menelvagor Valar: Taurens whacked Trolls long enough to breed bigger Raptors?
ArPharazonV: *shudders at the thought of a male draenei on a robot-chicken*
Eonwe Valar: Seeing as probably only the most bored or Hard-core botehred with getting Gnomeregan to exalted, some of us still have work to do :}
VardaValar1: Aye : )
ArPharazonV: ..'ve got exalted...
VardaValar1: Like he said...
ArPharazonV: wouldn't call myself Hard-core
Menelvagor Valar: But honestly, why not a Male Draenei on a Strider and a Gnome on an Elekk?
Menelvagor Valar: I mean, you can't even find the Gnome on it.
Eonwe Valar: Phar, you made it a point to get all those factions up to exalted :}
Menelvagor Valar: Oh, I did as well :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: same, same
ArPharazonV: I'm at 29 now
VardaValar1: Side by side on your Mechano-striders!
Eonwe Valar: If somehow that doesn't fit under "bored" or "Hard-core," let's just add a column for "made a point to get that faction up" as well :}
ArPharazonV: 11 to go at least
ArPharazonV: let's just call it bored
Menelvagor Valar: Well, he's still a Night Elf from the basic set, of course I am a Draenei from Outland :P
VardaValar1: How about a strong gamer? : )
ArPharazonV: I call it.. let's see...
Menelvagor Valar: 29 factions at exalted?..
ArPharazonV: "focused"
Eonwe Valar: hee
Menelvagor Valar: Hmmm... I think if I combine all my chars I might get there :P
ArPharazonV: I think if I combine all my chars I'm *still* at 29 ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: 7 on my Shammy though. But I am still Ambassador of the Alliance *grin*
Eonwe Valar: *hee = hehe
VardaValar1: Eonwe hit 80.
VardaValar1: Sauron hit his second 80.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I hit 80 on Auros. this week
VardaValar1: Congrats :-)
Eonwe Valar: With a bit of Sauron's help at the end, I arranged my experience in such a way that it would be me reporting to Bolvar Fordragon at the Wrath gate that got me 80.
ArPharazonV: I hit... 78 a few days back
ArPharazonV: now at 78 and a half
ArPharazonV: by the way, this week Winter Veil is starting so that'll probably delay the levelling process by a bit :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, that's right, Winter Veil is starting this week.
ArPharazonV: also finished the Grizzly Hills, and done every instance up to Drak'tharon and Violet Hold...
Eonwe Valar: Means all my characters will have to find time to get through it, hehe.
ArPharazonV: so going pretty much by schedule
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Do you know what day it starts? I may slip in for it.
ArPharazonV: well, I only have one 50+ char and he'll do everything
ArPharazonV: Monday I think?
Eonwe Valar: Sauron also got his second 80 this week :}
Eonwe Valar: It last two weeks, so you'll have time :}
VardaValar1: ok : )
Eonwe Valar: Oh, let me note another thing real quick..
Eonwe Valar: You can use WoW's Armory to check alot of things, including what events are going on on the Guild Calendar.
Eonwe Valar: One sec, I'll get a link.
Eonwe Valar:
Eonwe Valar: Just log in and you can check stuff for up to 3 of your characters.
Eonwe Valar: And juding by the Guild's Calendar as checked through the Armory, yes, Winter Veil start's MOnday the 15th (tomorrow) :}
Eonwe Valar: *judging
VardaValar1: Thank you!
Eonwe Valar: You can also take a look at bank contents from the Armory, if you have permiussions to see the tabs.
ArPharazonV: and it lasts 2 and a half weeks ;-)
VardaValar1: Elwing said she couldn't make it to Lothar's Friday, was not at home.
VardaValar1: Sent early warning, but I only passed it on to family. Sorry, Eonwe. Bad me.
Eonwe Valar: NP.
Eonwe Valar: I figured everyone had important tasks to do anyway :}
VardaValar1: Fangorn is stuck on a drilling rig, hopes to come home late Wednesday.
Eonwe Valar: I popped in for a moment on Uldaman [server] this week as well, but not long. We're still 87 gold from our bank tab there.
Eonwe Valar: We're 2300ish from our 5th tab on Lothar :}
VardaValar1: ugh. I need to get in there and work on that Uldaman server bank.
VardaValar1: That is amazing, Eonwe. : )
Eonwe Valar: I think that's all I have for WoW for now.
VardaValar1: Thank you!
VardaValar1: Who has the report for Europe today? Mainly, who you saw from Valar.
VardaValar1: We are checking for who is still active for next year's membership list.
ArPharazonV: think I saw Valandil pop offline once or twice
VardaValar1: That helps, thank you.
VardaValar1: Valandil-V, still active. Cool.
VardaValar1: Anything else you'd like to add about WoW Europe?
VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: It's been very busy there, with a very long list of Valarites quite active.
VardaValar1: Ulmo hit the level cap of 60 and Ancalagon is very close to it.
VardaValar1: We have a lot of new Rune-keepers and Wardens as alts, very fun classes. Work well together.
VardaValar1: There were 8 of us online just a little before the meeting.
VardaValar1: We also have a busy friend channel, adding to it frequently.
VardaValar1: And we have friendships with some other groups so we can find more folk. : )
VardaValar1: If you would like to see who is on, LotRO made a beta site that shows everyone in the kinship and has a huge amount on it.
VardaValar1: There is also a how-to-use site for it:
VardaValar1: The only thing I'd like more on it is a way to show our primary names. I have 12, for instance.
VardaValar1: The winter festival has kept us busy, also. : )
VardaValar1: Kind of funny seeing super high levels racing about the very low level zones, scooping snow and collecting mistle-toe.
VardaValar1: That's all I think I'll mention for now. : )
Eonwe Valar: Skimming through the FAQ for it..
Eonwe Valar: Seems after beta you will have players linked to their characters.
VardaValar1: Any further news or business, suggestions, comments?
Eonwe Valar: The profile they'll use to show this link is the same one you use for their forums.
VardaValar1: I have two accounts. Wonder if that will throw it off. : )
Eonwe Valar: That will likely throw it off, yes :}
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
AriehnV: aiya :-) sorry folks for jumping in and out again but was a wee bit distracted and am on earlies tomorrow just wanted to say hi
VardaValar1: Glad to see you and know you're ok. : )
Eonwe Valar: Heya :} Sleep well :}
AriehnV: thanks Varda :-) just a tad bit tired but not too bad today so give me a nice tolkien topic to read pls ok?
VardaValar1: That would be fun for us all. : )
VardaValar1: Sleep well!
AriehnV: :-D Namarie for now
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: for anyone who wants to skim the faq.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe
VardaValar1: Arien got her warlock to 64, in other WoW news. : )

VardaValar1: Time to switch to Tolkien? : )
VardaValar1: We know only a little about the Avari.
ArPharazonV: Ask Estarion!
VardaValar1: It's easy to confuse these Refusers with those who turned aside, the Silvans.
VardaValar1: It is likely, however, that the Avari would have joined up with the Silvans and crossed with them as well.
Menelvagor Valar: Hey, most of what I put into the RP is things that were "rumored" and other things I have made up by using other fantasy books :-D
VardaValar1: Eol was a dark elf, but was he a Silvan or Avar?
Eonwe Valar: He simply grouped himself with the Teleri.
Eonwe Valar: That rules him out from being Avar.
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: one would guess that if he was of the Avari he would not have made it to Beleriand in that period, I believe the Avari always remained more east.. in fact, *not* remaining more east seems to be a definition to exclude one from the Avari
ArPharazonV: though it is uncertain how far the Avari ultimately reached in the end
ArPharazonV: and the Avari included Teleri too, so that is not necessarily the case I think, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: No.
Eonwe Valar: The Avari are a group of Elves,.. in opposiution( for lack of a better phrasing) to the Eldar, who are those who went on the journey.
VardaValar1: Silvans and Avari were "dark elves", never having had contact with the Ainur except through the Sindar, the "twilight elves", and that was on the Silvan side.
Eonwe Valar: If you are classified as Noldor, Vanyar, or Teleri, you went on the journey.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe.
ArPharazonV: I believe the original composition of the Elves consisted of the 3 tribes (or were there 5?), and from those 3 tribes, the majority left for the West
VardaValar1: The three tribes seemed to be different somewhat physically and in their leanings.
ArPharazonV: of course the small-populated Vanyar went as a whole... but I believe a number of those originally seen as Teleri stayed behind
VardaValar1: But the Avari would have mixed together, wiping out those distinctions.
ArPharazonV: I'm not saying Eol was part of this group, but Teleri and Avari are not wholly exclusive
ArPharazonV: perhaps, perhaps
ArPharazonV: but Eol might have kept track of his roots
ArPharazonV: as is the right of any particular individual :-)
VardaValar1: The Silvans were also a mix.
Eonwe Valar: Teleri seems to be a descriptive name used only for those of Elwë's (and his brother Olwë's) group who took up the journey.
Eonwe Valar: Just like Noldor is only used of those of Finwë's people who went.
ArPharazonV: there are various stories which may or may not contradict each other depending on interpretation
ArPharazonV: the Awakening story, for example, started with the 3 tribes
Eonwe Valar: All of Ingwë's people went, so there's no name difference to wory about with those who would be called Vanyar.
VardaValar1: We could say the Moriquendi (Silvan and Avari) were likely a mix of Finwe's and Olwe's people? :-)
ArPharazonV: probably, yes
VardaValar1: Aye, we can leave out the tight-knit, lower population Vanyar.
ArPharazonV: though the existence of 2 additional groups who stayed behind as a whole seems to be drawing the attention of my memory..
ArPharazonV: of course, I have no idea about the source....
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar. We are in agreement.
VardaValar1: Those two groups included sub-groups.
VardaValar1: I don't know about the Avari, but the Silvans had several sub-groups.
ArPharazonV: I wasn't talking about the Avari and Silvans, though
ArPharazonV: I"m talking about 2 additional original tribes that remained completely within the group that stayed behind, the Avari
Eonwe Valar: The Teleri were divided into those who went to Aman, the Sindar, and the Nandor.
ArPharazonV: but if none of you remember them I might be mistaken
VardaValar1: It would have to be buried in HoMe somewhere if so. If you can find that, please bring it to our attention.
Eonwe Valar: The Sindar are those Teleri who made it/remained in Beleriand.
Eonwe Valar: The Nandor are those that left the march of the Teleri east of the Misty Mountains, Of those Nandor, some later entered into Beleriand and became the Laiquendi.
Menelvagor Valar: Weren't they the ones who settled in the area known as the 7 rivers or something?
luthienathariel: *waking up* huh?
Eonwe Valar: It seems any Eldar (who are those Elves who took up the Great Journey from Cuivienen) who did not make it to Aman would be classified as "Umanyar"
VardaValar1: Scroll back. : )
ArPharazonV: it would by all accounts then be a subset of the Avari, what I'm thinking of... but seeing as the distinction on your page is only *after* the great separation, they would probably not fit in really well in this list
fladrifv has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: The Umanyar and the Avari together are classified as Moriquendi, as opposed to Calaquendi, who were the Eldar who came to Aman in the days of the Two Trees.
VardaValar1: Umanyar: Quenya for "not of Aman"
Eonwe Valar: Aye
Eonwe Valar: Silvans seem to be those Nandor who did not pass west over the Misty Mountains.
Eonwe Valar: Which does seem to mean Avari would have to be even further east, perhaps beyond Mordor.
VardaValar1: Any of those who started on the journey had contact with Orome, at least at a distance.
Eonwe Valar: Although I recall reading somewhere that the inland Sea of Rhun might've been what was left of that greater inland sea upon which Cuivienen lay.
VardaValar1: That would include Silvans, but not Avari.
Eonwe Valar: Unfortunately, can't recall a good source for that at the moment.
Menelvagor Valar: I seem to recall the same thing Eonwe.
Menelvagor Valar: and also, don't know wherefrom.
luthienathariel: it was very far east indeed
fladrifv has left the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Complete Guide says Cuivienen was a bay on the eastern shore of Helcar, lying at the foot of the Orocarni near the Wild Wood. At least gives us a starting point in the book indices.
Eonwe Valar: Avari could've moved outward from Cuivienen afterwards. They did come among Men and teach them, after all.
VardaValar1: Helcar was the sea water that filled the hole where the pillar of Illuin once had been, a lamp of the Valar.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: Men's tales of elves may be more helpful with the Avari info that the elves' tales. : )
VardaValar1: *than
Eonwe Valar: I'm betting so :}
VardaValar1: But remember Finrod?
luthienathariel: yes
Eonwe Valar: Alas, my HoME is buried behind some other books at the moment.
VardaValar1: Finrod was first to meet the Edain
luthienathariel: that part is particularly haunting ...
VardaValar1: at least of the Eldar.
luthienathariel: yes, they met with other elves before. It says so.
luthienathariel: in the Sil
luthienathariel: I think
VardaValar1: and that was the Edain.
VardaValar1: Avari could have bumped into other types of men too, and the various races.
VardaValar1: The Avari were closest to where Men awakened, and would have met the ones fleeing Melkor.
VardaValar1: So why did Finrod seem so strange to the Edain?
VardaValar1: One, he was not of the Avari. He seemed a dream to them at first.
luthienathariel: they first saw him when he was singing
VardaValar1: Aye, he walked into their camp and picked up one of their harps while they were sleeping.
luthienathariel: and they thought he might be one of the gods that they had heard tales of
VardaValar1: At first they thought they were dreaming still.
luthienathariel: it is so touching, that part. I love it
Eonwe Valar: And who would they have heard rumour of good Valar from? Not Melkor or his spies :}
VardaValar1: I wonder if the Avari would have had much good to say about the Ainur?
VardaValar1: A very good point, Eonwe. : )
VardaValar1: and Luthien. : )
Eonwe Valar: Well, the Avari would at least have seen Oromë as friendly enough, and he told them the other Valar were ok, so after the initial shock of all those glowing Valar making war on Melkor wore off, the memory of goodness would likely remain.
VardaValar1: True, they knew Orome.
Eonwe Valar: The "good old days" effect :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Avari probably said "I told you so" to the Silvans. : )
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
VardaValar1: It would be nice to find the reference to the Avari working with the humans. Good thing to add to the Encyc.
Eonwe Valar: I think it's in HoME off the top of my head.
VardaValar1: Here's something in the Sil also, sort of related.
VardaValar1: "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" Not very far into it.
VardaValar1: Starts after a big space with "Elsewhere in Middle-earth..."
VardaValar1: Outside of where the people of Beleriand came.
VardaValar1: It was peaceful "for many years".
VardaValar1: "Yet the lands were for the most part savage and desolate, save only where the people of Beleriand came.
VardaValar1: "Many elves dwelt there indeed, as they had dwelt through the countless years, wandering free in the wide lands far from the Sea;
ArPharazonV: gotta go, getting up in a about 5 and a half hours
luthienathariel: aw
VardaValar1: "but they were Avari, to whom the deeds of Beleriand were but a rumour and Valinor only a distant name.
ArPharazonV: saving and... well, I'll be sending, but not until tomorrow
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Phar.
VardaValar1: Namarie Phar!
luthienathariel: daw vaer

[Times below are in CST. Please add one hour for EST. Broken boxes were emotes.]

ArPharazonV (5:49:01 PM): saved
VardaValar1 (5:49:19 PM): "And in the south and in the further east Men multiplied;
Eonwe Valar (5:49:31 PM): That's interesting... So the Avari did spread out.
VardaValar1 (5:49:36 PM): and most of them turned to evil, for Sauron was at work."
VardaValar1 (5:50:05 PM): The next part has a lot to do with the Avari too.
Eonwe Valar (5:50:37 PM): "Elsewhere is kind of vague though. Seems not to include the area between the Misty and the Blue Mountains.
Eonwe Valar (5:50:45 PM): *"Elsewhere"
VardaValar1 (5:50:54 PM): "Seeing the desolation of the world, Sauron said in his heart that the Valar, having overthrown Morgoth, had again forgotten Middle-earth..."
VardaValar1 (5:51:54 PM): "He looked with hatred on the Eldar, and he feared the Men of Numenor who came back at whiles in their ships to the shores of Middle-earth;
ArPharazonV (5:51:57 PM): Namarie all
ArPharazonV (5:52:00 PM): will read more when I have time :)
VardaValar1 (5:52:02 PM): Namarie, Phar. : )
VardaValar1 (5:52:17 PM): I'll quilt it for you.
ArPharazonV (5:52:23 PM): lovely
ArPharazonV (5:52:30 PM): I'll send you my bit tomorrow
VardaValar1 (5:52:34 PM): Thanks : )
VardaValar1 (5:53:01 PM): "but for long he dissembled his mind and concealed the dark designs that he shaped in his heart.
ArPharazonV (5:53:11 PM): ugh, busy few weeks... one interim-exam and 3 reports...
ArPharazonV (5:53:23 PM): and of course everything last minute tonight >.>
ArPharazonV (5:53:37 PM): *shrugs* anyway, Namarie
Eonwe Valar (5:53:44 PM): Sleep well :}
ArPharazonV (5:53:50 PM): one more week of this and then there's vacation
ArPharazonV (5:53:55 PM): *waves*
VardaValar1 (5:53:58 PM): "Men he found the easiest to sway of all the peoples of the Earth; but long he sought to persuade the Elves to his service
VardaValar1 (5:54:04 PM): /wave
ArPharazonV (5:54:05 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (5:54:39 PM): ", for he knew that the Firstborn had the greater power;
VardaValar1 (5:55:07 PM): "and he went far and wide among them,..."
Menelvagor Valar (5:55:08 PM): he found a few, though not by direct means and only by lies that those elves work in his favor.
VardaValar1 (5:55:16 PM): Aye
VardaValar1 (5:55:34 PM): and they backed away when they realized what was happening.
fladrifv (5:55:35 PM): namarie all
VardaValar1 (5:55:38 PM): namarie!
Menelvagor Valar (5:55:45 PM): Not all.
Eonwe Valar (5:56:28 PM): Hmm, where did ytou read that Menel?
Menelvagor Valar (5:56:34 PM): For most grievous among Elven tales is the tale of Feänor, who worked in favor of Morgoth long after others saw his dark hand in afairs.
Eonwe Valar (5:56:35 PM): *you
Menelvagor Valar (5:56:45 PM): Read what exactly? :-)
Eonwe Valar (5:57:39 PM): Varda's quoting from the Sil "On the Rings of Power..." and then you said.. "and he found a few etc.."
Menelvagor Valar (5:59:16 PM): Which I immediately amended.
fladrifv (6:00:10 PM) has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar (6:00:45 PM): in the same sentence even *grin*
Eonwe Valar (6:01:00 PM): The "etc" reflects the rest of the sentence :}
Menelvagor Valar (6:01:25 PM): *grin*
Eonwe Valar (6:01:34 PM): I guess by your other statements you're hearkening back to Morgoth?
Menelvagor Valar (6:02:00 PM): Uhm well... I can't put my finger on it exactly... but quite generally speaking from the Sil.
Menelvagor Valar (6:02:04 PM): Oh!!
Menelvagor Valar (6:02:10 PM): And there is Maeglin!
VardaValar1 (6:02:13 PM): After the One Ring was found out, the elves fled from Sauron, taking off the rings and hiding them. Mainly refers to Eregion.
Menelvagor Valar (6:02:20 PM): Who Morgoth actually did turn to his service.
VardaValar1 (6:02:57 PM): Those Eregion elves were the ones who worked with him most closely, but then they turned away from him and were at war with him.
Menelvagor Valar (6:02:58 PM): But of course I jumped into the fray without fully realizing we're not exactly talking about the second era *grin*
Eonwe Valar (6:03:14 PM): We're discussing Avari :}
Menelvagor Valar (6:03:42 PM): I thought the discussion had kinda slid into something else...
VardaValar1 (6:03:48 PM): "From that time war never ceased between Sauron and the Elves..."
VardaValar1 (6:03:54 PM): Nope.
Eonwe Valar (6:04:07 PM): Varda was quoting some lines that had to do with the Avari.
Menelvagor Valar (6:04:08 PM): In fact, considering how long it has been since the Tolkien part started, I kind of assumed so.
Menelvagor Valar (6:04:24 PM): Yes, I see that now.
Eonwe Valar (6:04:28 PM): No, we held it on course this time round :}
Aerandir V (6:04:43 PM) has left the room.
Eonwe Valar (6:04:58 PM): Ossë did not force our ship to different shores :}
Menelvagor Valar (6:05:03 PM): In Holland we have a nice saying for what I did... "He's heard the bell ringing, but has no clue where the hammer is"
Eonwe Valar (6:05:40 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (6:06:25 PM): It tells of places of refuge of the elves, then places that did not have refuge.
Eonwe Valar (6:06:28 PM): afk for a sec, pardon.
VardaValar1 (6:06:36 PM): That would be the Avari's area.
VardaValar1 (6:07:52 PM): "...Sauron dared not as yet to pass the Mountains of Ered Luin nor to assail the Havens..."
VardaValar1 (6:08:34 PM): "Elsewhere Sauron reigned, and those who would be free took refuge in the fastnesses of wood and mountain, and ever fear pursued them.
VardaValar1 (6:09:18 PM): Then the Numenoreans pulled Sauron out of Middle-earth's mainlands for a while.
VardaValar1 (6:10:02 PM): Sauron came back and found Gil-galad's power had come to the borders of Greenwood the Great.
VardaValar1 (6:11:24 PM): "and was drawing nigh to the strong places where once he had dwelt secure. Then Sauron withdrew to his fortress in the Black Land and meditated war."
Eonwe Valar (6:12:07 PM): back
VardaValar1 (6:12:21 PM): The Faithful showed up, setting up kingdoms in the north and south, so things were probably much more peaceful for the Avari then.
VardaValar1 (6:12:24 PM): Welcome back. : )
Eonwe Valar (6:12:28 PM): Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar (6:16:17 PM): Borders of Greenwood eh? I'm sure Thranduil's father was thrilled about that, hehe.
Eonwe Valar (6:17:36 PM): At the beginning of the quote, it sounds like Avari would be more or Less beyond the Misty Mountains to the east.
Eonwe Valar (6:18:11 PM): They probably would've been pushed westward looking for refuge from Sauron after Eregion fell though.
Eonwe Valar (6:19:56 PM): The Avari would also have to be further east than Greenwood though, since the primary populations of Mirkwood and Lothlorien were Silvan as I recall.
VardaValar1 (6:22:20 PM): Aye
[Actual ending of the Tolkien discussion.]
Eonwe Valar (6:22:37 PM): I guess everyone's otherwise occupied at this point?
VardaValar1 (6:23:00 PM): Eowyn walked in and is telling me lots of tales and showing phat lewt. : )
Eonwe Valar (6:23:12 PM): :}
luthienathariel (6:23:15 PM): what's that??
luthienathariel (6:23:23 PM): "phat lewt" ?
VardaValar1 (6:23:49 PM): She is showing her winnings from Toastmasters and presents from the Christmas party.
VardaValar1 (6:23:54 PM): Fat loot.
Eonwe Valar (6:24:02 PM): Cool
luthienathariel (6:24:07 PM): kewl
Menelvagor Valar (6:24:45 PM): haha
luthienathariel (6:25:07 PM): I mean, like, totally.
luthienathariel (6:25:31 PM): I bet you wont get away with that lingo at toastmasters though
VardaValar1 (6:25:48 PM): Depends on the topic. : )
luthienathariel (6:25:55 PM): ;)
luthienathariel (6:26:14 PM): funny you have that too .. a friend of mine in Canada was a member
VardaValar1 (6:26:57 PM): It's international
VardaValar1 (6:27:13 PM): Even places that don't speak English. : )
luthienathariel (6:27:33 PM): I have never come across it here
Eonwe Valar (6:27:36 PM): *Insert bad joke about charring bred here* :}
luthienathariel (6:27:39 PM): but that does not prove anything
Eonwe Valar (6:28:24 PM): *bread... I'm beginning to think reading the WoW forums is making me dumber...
Eonwe Valar (6:28:32 PM): Such horrible typos,...
VardaValar1 (6:28:41 PM): hehe - likely
VardaValar1 (6:28:49 PM): *bangs gavel*

VardaValar1 (6:28:55 PM): Freedom of speech. : )
Eonwe Valar (6:30:00 PM): Hehe
luthienathariel (6:30:32 PM): I read that poem in front of 30+ ppl today .. that was kind of scary
pallandovalar (6:31:24 PM): Eonwe: Large public forums, especially related to games, have been scientifically shown to lower your IQ.
pallandovalar (6:32:17 PM): Case in point: Corporation and Alliance Discussion on Eve-O, or any of the Blizzard forums.
pallandovalar (6:32:34 PM): Crime and Punishment on Eve-O is also pretty bad.
Eonwe Valar (6:33:27 PM): hehe
VardaValar1 (6:59:02 PM): Good night, folks. :-)
Eonwe Valar (6:59:09 PM): Sleep well :}
luthienathariel (6:59:14 PM): sleep well
VardaValar1 (6:59:26 PM): It's only about 7pm for me. :-)
VardaValar1 (6:59:44 PM): I may go kill pixels!