Valar Guild

May 20, 2007 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon-(V) and Varda-(Valar)

Attending: (9)
    Members: Arien-(Valar)/AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, Fladrifv, GilraenV, Glorfindel VG, Menelvagor Valar, Valandil Valar
    Friends: Srekal86

    StarCraft 2 Srekal, Pharazon, and Eonwe told about the upcoming game.
    Forum rp chronology problem
Meeting begins
    Eonwe's birthday: 25 last Thursday
    Ar-Pharazon and autism (Before-meeting)
    Menelvagor's foreign internship will be in the USA (Gaming)
    Eilinel-(V) is currently in China, traveling a lot, communicated via Skype to Arien (Gaming)
    Games page being redone, mass update coming up
    Forum rp chronology problem (before-meeting)
    StarCraft 2 second mention, most discussion was in the Before-meeting
    Empire Earth: Art of Conquest Ar-Pharazon
    Poker Texas Hold 'em Menelvagor
    Ninja Gaiden Black Eonwe
    Mass Effect: Link. Discussion of upcoming game by Menelvagor and Eonwe.
    Menelvagor's foreign internship
    Eilinel is traveling
    Menelvagor Valar: We all know that even after the Bending of the World, the Valar still maintained a certain degree of influence in Middle Earth. One of the greatest (or even the greatest) example is the sending of the Wizards. However, one that is more obscure, yet no less important is Irmo's influence. Now, what I would like to know is if you can think of any examples of this.
    Archery link given to Menelvagor who is a bowman.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Srekal86 has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
GilraenV has entered the room.
Srekal86: about that SC2?
GilraenV: Aiya :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya Gilraen
ArPharazonV: I've seen the pictures and read the website
Srekal86: haven't seen the videos?
ArPharazonV: interface seems too similar to the old one for my taste, I hated that interface
ArPharazonV: yeah, those too
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: and I'm sad that there are no new races!
Srekal86: I'm glad they aren't trying to deviate too much.
ArPharazonV: but otherwise, it seems nice
ArPharazonV: I"m not sure, seems more of an expansion with upgraded graphics than a sequel
Eonwe Valar: There are no new race s announced, doesn't mean there won't be :}
ArPharazonV: but I like expansions, so that's allright :-)
Srekal86: actually I think they specifically said there will not be any new races.
Eonwe Valar: The way they answered that question in the FAQ, one of my friends says it sounds likea dodge.
Srekal86: possibly
Srekal86: Blizz is tricksy like that
Fladrifv has entered the room.
Fladrifv: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: Heya Fladrif
Eonwe Valar: If you all see any more Guild guys I may have missed, please invite them. I only have 4 guys who haven't accepted myt invitation yet and that seems a bit light.
Fladrifv: outch
Menelvagor Valar: I have invited all I could as soon as I got in.
Eonwe Valar: ok
Menelvagor Valar: resent a batch.
Eonwe Valar: Varda's out of town with Fangorn visiting his parents, so I'll be chairing tonight.
Fladrifv: *salutes*
ArPharazonV: darn, I wanted to talk to her about the forum rp, I think something might have gone wrong with the chronological interpretation of my post
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I thought something was wrong there as well.
Eonwe Valar: When I said "The others," Faian was the only one already therte.
Eonwe Valar: *Fainan
ArPharazonV: hmm
ArPharazonV: I thought I was the first, actually :-)
Eonwe Valar: Nope, Fainan was there already, because she met Auros at the smithy, then again in the stable.
ArPharazonV: also, I'd left the note *before* the rest of the chapter happened, as to not conflict with her statement, as I explained
ArPharazonV: and her giving you the note now seems a little.. inconsistent
Eonwe Valar: Aye
Eonwe Valar: We'll have to talk about that when she gets back.
ArPharazonV: indeed
ArPharazonV: though I don't tend to see her online much unless it's around the meeting
AriehnV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: I also thought Ancalagon was unsure about going the thief route, because that makes figuring out why Auros would bring such a troublesome person all the way to Rivendell when he has plenty of other places to dump him instead a bit .
AriehnV: Aiya all together
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arien.
ArPharazonV: if that's the case, they might always catch the thief and send me the other daggers..
ArPharazonV: and when we look back at it we can say "Ah, see that? It seems a redundant arc, but it was the remains of a whole part of the story we chose not to do!"
Eonwe Valar: hmm, that should read "a bit difficult to say the least.
Eonwe Valar: "
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Arien, if you see any Guild guys on but not here, please extend them an invitation.
Eonwe Valar: I think I have everyone who's on here or with an invitation, but I want to make sure.
ArPharazonV: and in case he *does* want to go through with it, it would be a bit awkward without explaining how I knew they were stolen already, so this part was necessary anyway, just in case
ArPharazonV: besides, gave me an excuse to be late :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Valandil Valar has entered the room.
Valandil Valar: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya Valandil
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya!
Valandil Valar: how is everyone ?
ArPharazonV: good, good
Menelvagor Valar: WoW Europe is more or less fully staffed at this meeting.
Eonwe Valar: Doing good. About to start the meeting, so you got here just in time :}
ArPharazonV: I've been through a bit of an identity-crisis the past week, but I try not to think about it...
Valandil Valar: crisis ?
Eonwe Valar: Nothing toooo serious, I hope, Phar.
Menelvagor Valar: hmm... Europe is clearly outnumbering the US today, too bad we don't outrank as well *grin*
ArPharazonV: some recent events have led me to believe that I'm probably autistic
Menelvagor Valar: and sorry to hear that Phar.
Menelvagor Valar: oh, half the world is autistic if you believe the shrinks.
ArPharazonV: which have in turn made my look at every aspect of my personality and behavior, makes me unsure what is the autism and what is the real me
Menelvagor Valar: don't dwell on it.
ArPharazonV: *made me look
Menelvagor Valar: everything, inclusing the autism is you.
ArPharazonV: and whether I should take this as a reason to change
AriehnV has left the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: I'd rather not see it that way, Menel... it feels odd to think that my actual personality, my "soul" as it were, can be so heavily influenced by a mental ...disorder
Menelvagor Valar: well, who says it's a mental disorder in the first place?
Eonwe Valar: I think the doctors say that.
Menelvagor Valar: what if it is just natural, and we are expected to behave "unnatural"?
ArPharazonV: and I've felt for a long time now that there's been a conflict inside me, like a demon that I've been trying to suppress, even long before I even thought it could be autism
ArPharazonV: now it seems to me this "demon" has finally gotten a name :-)
Menelvagor Valar: maybe the wrong one.
ArPharazonV: maybe
ArPharazonV: but I'm not sure
Menelvagor Valar: maybe the struggle inside you is the struggle each and everyone of us is having with him or herself.
ArPharazonV: it would explain a lot, indeed... and if it is a part of me I can't escape, I don't have much hope of ever building up some kind of "normal" life
Menelvagor Valar: just some people feel that struggle more clearly.
ArPharazonV: so I have to believe I can fight this
Menelvagor Valar: I am sure you can.
AriehnV: I have a good deal of that , Phara, especially recently and I am positive you can
Menelvagor Valar: I believe that you will win, and I also believe that whicher side of you wins, it will be the right one.
Menelvagor Valar: whichever*
ArPharazonV: even if it takes me the rest of my life... I can't let myself give into it
ArPharazonV: I wish I believed the same :-)
Menelvagor Valar: life is a struggle.
Menelvagor Valar: Phar, I would say the same if it concerned myself *grin*
AriehnV: you will get to it, Pharzie , you will get to it :-)
ArPharazonV: I hope so
ArPharazonV: I need to do more research, perhaps.. see if autism can indeed be fought against
AriehnV: /me nods encouragingly
Eonwe Valar: It's getting late, so let's go ahead and begin the meeting.. If you'd like to talk about this further, you can perhaps get a better conversation going in whispers.
ArPharazonV: but I have a feeling it will dominate much of my life in the near future... either the condition, or the struggle against it :-)
ArPharazonV: sure
Eonwe Valar: I do hope and pray for the best for you, Phar.
ArPharazonV: go ahead
ArPharazonV: thanks

Eonwe Valar: Elenn Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
ArPharazonV: anyway, I try not to think about it... try to live my life normally, maybe try to act a bit nicer to other people, a bit less self-absorbed... but I guess just continuing to talk about it isn't helping there ;-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArPharazonV: *shuts up*
Eonwe Valar: As I mentioned earlier, Varda and Fangorn are out of town, visiting Fangorn's parents.
Eonwe Valar: I am still here :}
Eonwe Valar: I am now 25 for those interested.
Menelvagor Valar: Congratulations!
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Menelvagor Valar: today or this week?
Fladrifv: congrats!
AriehnV: Congrats :-)
Eonwe Valar: This past Thursday.
Valandil Valar: <feels old>
Menelvagor Valar: Okay, short version then:
Valandil Valar: congratulations
Eonwe Valar: THanks :}
Menelvagor Valar: Happy birthday to you! Happy Hurray! Hurray!
Eonwe Valar: Hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: THanks Menel :}
ArPharazonV: Congratulations indeed!
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Phar :}
ArPharazonV: may you have many more ;-)
Eonwe Valar: THanks :}
Menelvagor Valar: about 50 to 60, before you go all loony and drooling over your keyboard :-)
Menelvagor Valar: or a couple Eons if you can last that long *grin*
Eonwe Valar: I think that concludes member news, unless someone has any themselves?
Menelvagor Valar: Well, I have some, but it is not exactly related to the Valar Guild.
Eonwe Valar: I'm shooting for approximately 970 years :}
ArPharazonV: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: make that 975, and you can boast to be as old as Methusalah himself.
ArPharazonV: would be a bummer if you died at 969....
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, that's what I was shooting for :} Methuselah was 969 :}
Menelvagor Valar: ah, right :-D
Valandil Valar: would you really know at that age ?
Eonwe Valar: Sure I would :} Imagine the wealth of knowledge and experience I would have from 900 years.
Menelvagor Valar: you'd be pretty bored by the world by then.
Menelvagor Valar: of the world*
ArPharazonV: and the mental degression and dementia? :-)
Menelvagor Valar: nah, we got Tolkien to keep us strong.
ArPharazonV: true!
Eonwe Valar: I'd still have my many-greats later -grandchildren :}
Eonwe Valar: Bah I'd be keeping my brain active, so I'd be fine :}
ArPharazonV: hmm... I think it's about 25 years per generation.. for 975 years... that's 39 generations?
Eonwe Valar: Sure, let's go with that :}
Menelvagor Valar: that's harsh.
Menelvagor Valar: seeing 36 generations wither and die before you.
Eonwe Valar: You're assuming they don't have lifes as long as mine? :}
Eonwe Valar: *lives :}
Eonwe Valar: But that's enough of my goal to live for a millenium :}
ArPharazonV: I wouldn't mind living 3000 years, I guess... I just don't want to be immortal
Menelvagor Valar: would be a pretty crowded house you'd be living in, that's for sure *grin*
ArPharazonV: the world can wither and die before me, I just don't want to be stuck in this world for eternity :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, we make our kids move out and get their own house here in the US :}
Menelvagor Valar: anyways, shall we get on with the meeting, and save this for aftermeeting?
ArPharazonV: sure :-)
Eonwe Valar: Menel, you had member news?
Menelvagor Valar: my personal news:
Menelvagor Valar: Over the weekend a group of about 40 people who have met in an online game came together and met RL.
Menelvagor Valar: It was an absolute blast, talking, yapping, having a good time, and putting a face to a name.
Menelvagor Valar: And I won't bore you with any other gooey details *smile*
Menelvagor Valar: (not that there were any, mind)
Eonwe Valar: Glad you had fun, Menel :}
Menelvagor Valar: loads of fun :-)
Eonwe Valar: I trust all you men were perfect gentlemen around the women :}
Menelvagor Valar: I always am.
Eonwe Valar: Glad to hear it :}
Menelvagor Valar: of course, there are no gentlemen when playing Poker :-D
ArPharazonV: suuure you are
Eonwe Valar: Imagine if the Valar Guild did something like that? about 130 people in the same place...
Menelvagor Valar: Phar, if the woman you've been madly in love with asked you to be her witness on her marriage, would you say yes?
Menelvagor Valar: well, that was 40 people out of a group of 110.
ArPharazonV: hmm... that depends...
ArPharazonV: does she know?
Menelvagor Valar: She knows, she did, and I said yes.
ArPharazonV: I'd probably say yes, but expect it to be awkward anyway
AriehnV has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: of course, as I told her :-)
Menelvagor Valar: anyways, that's enough of that stuff.
Menelvagor Valar: let's continue.
Eonwe Valar: Again, glad you had fun, Menel :}
AriehnV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Any other Member news, or shall we move on to Web News?
Menelvagor Valar: well, put some things out of my mind for a while :-)
Menelvagor Valar: which is always a good thing *grin*
Eonwe Valar: Aye, sometimes having fun is a good way to relieve stress :}
Menelvagor Valar: or to have more stress when the thought returns again.
Eonwe Valar: There are worse things than having fun, done responsibly :}
Eonwe Valar: But anyway, since there seems to be no more member news..

Eonwe Valar: Web news:
Eonwe Valar: Gaming Page will be having some work done soon.
Eonwe Valar: Well, Pages
Eonwe Valar: A new version of the Games Page will probably be ready soon, and you all should know what that means :}
Eonwe Valar: GPMU coming up soon as well :}
Menelvagor Valar: I beat ya to it *grin*
AriehnV: Gpmu? whats that , if I may ask
Eonwe Valar: Games Page Mass-Update.
Menelvagor Valar: right, that one.
ArPharazonV: ahh, that
ArPharazonV: should we be sending in lists again then?
AriehnV: aah , that , indeed
Eonwe Valar: It's where I declare tabula Rasa, wipe the Games Page clean of all gaming info, and make you all send me in your up-to-date stuff.
Eonwe Valar: Wait until I call for it.
Srekal86 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: You all do understand why I do that, right?
Srekal86 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: If not, let me know now :}
Menelvagor Valar: to keep those gamers who are not in touch with the Valar Guild through email or meetings in the boat.
ArPharazonV: to annoy us and give us extra work? ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: or some such.
ArPharazonV: or that!
Eonwe Valar: I think I like Menel's explanation better, Phar :}
ArPharazonV: I thought you might :-)
Menelvagor Valar: how far off am I?
Eonwe Valar: The GPMU mail is more than just a call for gaming info, though that is a big part of it and it's primary purpose.
AriehnV: and it does make sense, actually, especcially if you have people lke me who suffer from altitis and server migration syndrome
Eonwe Valar: I also include what we're doing gameswise and what members can do to contribute, as a way of trying to encourage them to contribute :}
Eonwe Valar: The simple fact is, gaming info can go out of date quickly, and not everyone bothers to let me know when it does. So, I do this mass-update annually so we have information that's at least current for the year.
Eonwe Valar: Of course, that only helps when people tell me their gaming info. When they do, they make it easier for themselves to find gaming partners.
Menelvagor Valar: Arien, worse is gaming migration syndrome, eh guys?
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, jumping into game after game after game? :}
Menelvagor Valar: more or less, yes.
Eonwe Valar: Eh, depends on how much of your money it eats up :}
Eonwe Valar: Anything else about the GPMU?
Eonwe Valar: Btw, I do appreciate those of you who make attempts to keep their gaming info relatively up-to-date throughout the year.

Eonwe Valar: Ok, on the Gaming then:
Eonwe Valar: *the = to
Eonwe Valar: Starcraft 2 has been annuonced :}
Eonwe Valar: *announced even.
Eonwe Valar: So yay those of us who liked Starcraft :}
Eonwe Valar: Anyone do anything besides LotRO or WoW this week?
ArPharazonV: I liked Starcraft! A little difficult compared to the Warcraft series, but we'll see how 2 turns out
ArPharazonV: yeah, more Empire Earth: Art of Conquest, finished the pacific campaign, and now on to the last one, which takes place in the future
Menelvagor Valar: Poker Texas Hold'em!
ArPharazonV: I might finish the game next week!
Eonwe Valar: I played and finished Ninja Gaiden Black for the third or so time, but this time on my XBox 360.
Menelvagor Valar: are you going to play Mass Effect on your 360 once it hits the shelves?
Eonwe Valar: I don't know, I haven't looked into it and so I've forgotten what kind of game it is.
Eonwe Valar: I'm assuming FPS?
Menelvagor Valar:
Menelvagor Valar: actually, it's a full RPG combined with a full FPS.
Eonwe Valar: Pretend that page would take forever to load for me :}
Menelvagor Valar: The best gameplay trailers I've ever seen.
Menelvagor Valar: and it includes actual gameplay footage, not just intro movies.
Eonwe Valar: I pick up XBox Magazine, so if I can get a decent demo for it I might give it a try.
Menelvagor Valar: for now, it's my main reason for ever getting a 360 *grin*
Menelvagor Valar: but for now, the release date is still to be determined, so I will have to wait for a couple years (thankfully, considering my funding)
Eonwe Valar: I'm not typcally an FPS fan. I couldn't play many of the older FPSs for more than a few minutes.
Eonwe Valar: Otherwise I'd get a headache.
Menelvagor Valar: I'll send the game to you by mail once I'm done with it.
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, no , that's ok :} That's a bit longer-distance of borrowing than I'm willing to do :}
Menelvagor Valar: or, if it hits the shelves within 2 years, I can drop it by your place once I am in the States for my foreign internship.
Eonwe Valar: Besides, your region's game may not work with my 360.
Menelvagor Valar: oh right, better buy me an American 360 while I am there then :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe :}
Menelvagor Valar: then you can sample it while I am there *smile*
Menelvagor Valar: Anyways, any other gaming news before we move on to WoW?
Eonwe Valar: Any other games not LotRO or WoW before we move to them?
Eonwe Valar: That's my line, Menel :}
Menelvagor Valar: technically, yes, then again, I do have the official rank to steal yer lines.
Menelvagor Valar: then again, you have the official rank to rebuke me for that :-D
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: let's not pull rank here... especially since you're both of higher rank than me!
Eonwe Valar: I'm afraid that we have no LotRO report today, unless someone here happens to be in the LotRO branch and I just don't realize it.
Eonwe Valar: Phar, go to your cave :}
Menelvagor Valar: *shrinks from the magnabulous Ar-Pharazon*
ArPharazonV: *mumbles and walks back to his cave*
Eonwe Valar: I guess I'll take that as a "No LotRO report for today."
Eonwe Valar: Remember that the LotRO group meets on Landroval, where we have our official guild branch, every Monday.
Eonwe Valar: WoW Lothar Report:
Eonwe Valar: Eowyn was on for a while, but then had to go make dinner.
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Elwing came on and was playing her Paladin in the Wetlands.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya Glorfindel.
Eonwe Valar: I was in Mana Tombs at the time, having fun in my Ret way :}
Menelvagor Valar: Retribution rocks!
Menelvagor Valar: not as much as an enhancement Shaman though :-D
Eonwe Valar: This is my Paladin we're talking about, of course :} Just so everyone knows if they couldn't guess from the Ret comment :}
Glorfindel VG: hello : )
Eonwe Valar: Heya Glorfindel :}
Eonwe Valar: Somehow you were not in my Valar Guild buddy list, but that has been rectified.
AriehnV: I like both actually, holy , retri and prot ')
Eonwe Valar: Well, I'm building up a Prot Pally and a Holy Pally as well so I can have all three :}
Menelvagor Valar: *wonders how 3 fits into "both"*
AriehnV: I prefer the retri most though, like my strikes ... ;-)
AriehnV: sorry all three of course :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm going to miss my boosted healing from Improved Sanctity in the next patch.
Eonwe Valar: Not sure giving the 6% healing up is worth a 2% boost in dmg.
Eonwe Valar: But we'll see.
Menelvagor Valar: depends on what you are doing, really :P
Eonwe Valar: Well, I don't think it's going to make Ret Pallies any more desired in raids than they already are, but don't want to get into that discussion in the middle of the meeting :}
AriehnV has left the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: I'm still working for my epic flying mount, of course, but I'm almost 1/3 of the way there.
Eonwe Valar: And that concludes the Lothar Report.
Menelvagor Valar: Enhancement Shamans will be preferable above retri Pallies for damage boosts anyways.
Eonwe Valar: Oh, Elwing levelled a couple of times Friday night, wanted to make sure I let you all know that :}
ArPharazonV: haven't shamans been buffed enough? even our shamans admit they're overpowered ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Guys, not in the middle of the meeting :}
Menelvagor Valar: Hey, I kinda like the fact that I am overpowered :-D
Menelvagor Valar: sorry boss.
ArPharazonV: of course, but still
ArPharazonV: *hides in his cave*
Menelvagor Valar: *pierces the darkness of the caves with his radiant light to find Pharzie the Magnabulous*
Eonwe Valar: I'm afraid we don't have an Uldaman report tonight either, as I'm pretty sure no one here is in the Uldaman group and regularly shows.
Fladrifv: Namarie all, stupid painters arive at 7 oclock...!....grrr
Eonwe Valar: Remember that Uldaman nights are Wednesday night.
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Fladrif :}
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie Fladrif!
AriehnV: ouch Flad
AriehnV: Namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie Flad!
Fladrifv: *mumbles something about early birds...*
Fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: go catch that worm!
Eonwe Valar: This brings us to our Argent Dawn report, with guild nights every Thursday.
Menelvagor Valar: he can't, you're sitting on it! :-D
Menelvagor Valar: yay :-)
Eonwe Valar: Arien, your floor.
Eonwe Valar: If you have a report ready, anyway :}
AriehnV: Menel will do the intro :-)
Eonwe Valar: Ok, take it away Menel :}
AriehnV: /me mumbles unauddibly that Eilinel sends her greetings via Skype
Eonwe Valar: Menel is having some problems getting AIM to show his text.
AriehnV: /me reports that she is in China atm and travelling a lot :-)
Eonwe Valar: Cool :} Hope she's enjoying the travel :}
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: testing again.
Menelvagor Valar: ok, now it's working.
AriehnV: But we do have a report ready and i hope that Menel gets his aim sorted out
AriehnV: and has :-)
Menelvagor Valar: annoying AIM was blocking my messages.
Menelvagor Valar: Anyways.
Menelvagor Valar: Last thursday was our first official get together, as the week before that got cancelled.
Menelvagor Valar: We had 4 of us together for a nice evening of slaughtering the innocent beings that we call "evil"
Menelvagor Valar: Present were Valandil, on his druid Ardacyerme, Pharazon on his mage Cal-something...
ArPharazonV: (Caldaera)
AriehnV: Caldaera ..
Menelvagor Valar: thank you.
Menelvagor Valar: Arien was on Ariehn I think, who is a rogue.
Menelvagor Valar: and I was on my warrior, Menelvagor.
Menelvagor Valar: Before we got started, we figured we could use the help of another, which we got in the form of a Paladin called Falazure (or something)
ArPharazonV: I would have gone on my hunter Caliona, with a name closer to the Valarguild, but only my mage had the quests :-)
AriehnV: But that did not quite work out as it should have done ..
Menelvagor Valar: Falazure, unfortunately has not read LotR and has no intention of doing so, but he was a great asset to the game night so he was invited to the Valar channel as a guild friend.
Menelvagor Valar: And with that, I pass the floor to Arien.
Menelvagor Valar: and before you make any floor remarks, Pharzie, yes, as a constellation of stars, I really can do that, power enough.
AriehnV: Thank you , Menelvagor *looks sternely at the heavenly warrior*
ArPharazonV: I wasn't going to say anything!
AriehnV: We were set out to invade the unsuspecting pirates and mages in the infamous deadmines , to relief mr van clef of his head
AriehnV: but as soon as we entered the instance there was nobody around apart from rats ..
AriehnV: It turned out that blizzard had a technical problem with the server for that instance and was working on it
Menelvagor Valar: they had all fled at their impending doom just hearing our footsteps.
AriehnV: hehe , probably
AriehnV: so we mounted the gryphons to either Menethil or Thelsamar to run the long long road to Shadowfang Keep
AriehnV: After the expected pains in reaching the place we made a success ful entry into the keep and guided tour up until Arugal which still seems like a miracle to me
AriehnV: Especially we were all under 23 ..
AriehnV: since we were all under that , :-)
Menelvagor Valar: the long and short of it, we rock and they .... didn't rock so much.
Menelvagor Valar: for a while anyways.
AriehnV: The Arch Mage himself proved a bit too much of a challenge but probably you all know the fight :-)
AriehnV: He is a pain
AriehnV: But he wont escape us .. will return to him victorious and then its us who will cry *And another one falls !@
Eonwe Valar: :}
AriehnV: we will return and conquer :-)
ArPharazonV: or we might just visit Deadmines instead next week...
AriehnV: i think it might be wiser
ArPharazonV: whatever our choice, at least we all have the Southshore flightpoint now :-)
Menelvagor Valar: we will conquer Arugal though.
AriehnV: Thus endeth our report :-)
Menelvagor Valar: even if we have to bring out Anar�r�, Calaron and Finduilasse.
ArPharazonV: haha
AriehnV: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: one small addition.
Menelvagor Valar: Menelvagor got his 23rd level inside Shadowfang Keep.
AriehnV: Ariehn her 20 th :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Caldaera 22nd.
AriehnV: Ardacyerme 20 , i think
Menelvagor Valar: he was already 22 I believe/
AriehnV: or 21 , Valandil?
Valandil Valar: 23
Eonwe Valar: Congrats to you all :}
AriehnV: ah ok
ArPharazonV: actually, I started as 20 that time, and got to 21 in the Deadmines first... so I got 2 levels during our trip!
Menelvagor Valar: We are the champions my friends!
Menelvagor Valar: We'll keep on fighting till the end!
ArPharazonV: :-)
AriehnV: and we keep on fighting till the end :-)
Menelvagor Valar: and if the end comes, we will bring some friends that will make another one bite the dust!
ArPharazonV: if at first we don't succeed, die and fight another day!
AriehnV: /me breaks out in a hearty chuckle
Menelvagor Valar: So, everything put into a nutshell.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Menelvagor Valar: Our first day was a complete success and we have a blast.
Menelvagor Valar: had*
Eonwe Valar: Glad to hear it :}

Eonwe Valar: Tolkien time: Whisper your topics now or get one of mine :}
Eonwe Valar: Menel has a topic, so I'm giving him the floor :}
Menelvagor Valar: Okidoke :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Well, if my memory serves me correct, this one has been put in here not terribly long ago, but I found a new twist to it :-)
Menelvagor Valar: We all know that even after the Bending of the World, the Valar still maintained a certain degree of influence in Middle Earth.
Menelvagor Valar: One of the greatest (or even the greatest) example is the sending of the Wizards.
Menelvagor Valar: However, one that is more obscure, yet no less important is Irmo's influence.
Menelvagor Valar: Now, what I would like to know is if you can think of any examples of this.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh, as for some extra information, Irmo is called the Dreamlord.
Menelvagor Valar: anyone?
ArPharazonV: well, there were some bits mentioned in the Lost Tales, mostly
Menelvagor Valar: I think you are allowed to come to the edge of your cave now, Pharzie, so out with it *grin*
ArPharazonV: I find it hard to remember the exact names, though
ArPharazonV: there was something about a cottage for children, and a rainbow path... all dream-related
Eonwe Valar: There's plenty to look at in LotR for those not familair with the Lost Tales.
ArPharazonV: true
Eonwe Valar: Irmo was the Dreamlord, and there is plenty of dreaming in LotR, if anyone would like to name some :}
Menelvagor Valar: Shall I give an example to break the ice?
AriehnV: well Frodo had several dreams ..
AriehnV: first about Gandalf while he was captured , and frodo himself just a couple of days out of the shire
AriehnV: and of course he heard the noise of the sea in his dreams at the house of Tom Bombadil and could identify it immediately without having ever seen it
AriehnV: Boromir and Faramir of course ..
AriehnV: Faramir first who had the verse in his dreams
AriehnV: and then Boromir once which led to his journey to Elrond
Menelvagor Valar: and what did the dreams of Boromir and Faramir mean for the Quest of the Ring?
Eonwe Valar: I need to go afk for a sec.
ArPharazonV: well, there's no telling what would have happened with the Fellowship without Boromir
AriehnV: It lead to Boromirs participation in the journey of the ring south and all the events connected with that fact .. the influence that the ring had on him, and his final try to take the ring from Frodo
AriehnV: his making up for it at the defense of Pippin and Merry , and so his death
ArPharazonV: maybe it would have turned out better at Amon Hen, and maybe it would have gone wrong before... after all, he was still a hero, and defnitely contributed to the earlier engagements they had, in Moria for example
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
Menelvagor Valar: and what about Frodo's meeting with Faramir?
Menelvagor Valar: what was so special about it?
Menelvagor Valar: think of Boromir's funeral.
Menelvagor Valar: Faramir had a dream of Boromir in an elven ship floating past him in Anduin.
Menelvagor Valar: the dream felt tranquil, not the works of the Enemy.
Menelvagor Valar: when Faramir questioned Frodo about it, Frodo answered as fully as he was permitted to, and for his honesty and friendship to Boromir, Faramir let Sam, Frodo and Gollum go.
Menelvagor Valar: and probably for a number of other reasons which I haven't quite gotten to yet in my quest of rereading *grin*
ArPharazonV: so if Boromir hadn't joined the Fellowship, Faramir would not have let them go? :-)
Menelvagor Valar: that is a possibility.
ArPharazonV: but then, where would Faramir be if Boromir was still in Gondor? would he still be running things in Ithilien?
Menelvagor Valar: for even Faramir was not really permitted to allow them passage.
Menelvagor Valar: it would have been likely that Boromir would have been captaining the forces in Ithilien.
AriehnV: I wonder .. yes as a soldier under the reiment of his father probably not
Menelvagor Valar: Arien, Gondor was in a state of war, only the Steward could grant passage through the lands of Gondor.
Menelvagor Valar: and even though most of Ithilien (if not the entirety of it) fell under the sway of Sauron, Gondor still claimed those lands.
Menelvagor Valar: And it was Faramir himself who said this.
AriehnV: /me nods
AriehnV: so why did he allow the passage, you reckon?
Menelvagor Valar: he didn't
Menelvagor Valar: not technically anyways.
Eonwe Valar: back
Menelvagor Valar: welcome back.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: As I recall, Faramir let them go, with the provision they one day come before the Steward to receive his leave.
Menelvagor Valar: Faramir allowed them through on his word, and by doing so, he took his father's wrath (can't find appropriate word here) onto himself.
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
Menelvagor Valar: it was against the law of Gondor nonetheless though.
Eonwe Valar: wrath fits well enough, Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: it does, but not the word I am straining to find.
Menelvagor Valar: it's the thing that comes before the punishment.
Eonwe Valar: judgement? anger?
Eonwe Valar: Judgement.
Menelvagor Valar: judgement.
Menelvagor Valar: can you think of anything else that Irmo influenced in Middle Earth Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: Frodo had a dream of Gandalf sitting atop Orthanc as I recall.
Menelvagor Valar: mentioned by Arien :-)
Eonwe Valar: The pleasant dreams Frodo had in Mordor but were lost when he awoke.
Menelvagor Valar: that gave him renewed hope, aye/
Menelvagor Valar: for a fleeting moment anyways.
Eonwe Valar: And some mental rest, something he certainly needed while combatting the Ring.
Menelvagor Valar: at the least it gave him some strength to carry on.
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
Menelvagor Valar: Are there any examples of other Valar influencing matters in Middle Earth in LotR?
Eonwe Valar: Varda with that star above Mordor, to steal an easy one :}
Menelvagor Valar: Aule as well.
Menelvagor Valar: albeit by a long, long way around.
Eonwe Valar: Manw� was lord of the airs, to give a hint there to anyone who wants it, and his eagles were still in Middle-Earth.
Eonwe Valar: Do tell, Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: Dwarves.
Menelvagor Valar: no Dwarves, no Gimli.
Eonwe Valar: Heh, that is roundabout :}
Menelvagor Valar: no Dwarves, no Thorin or Dain, diverting strength from Mordor (or at least from the Misty Mountains, which could have been in Mordor) to Erebor.
Valandil Valar: then you should include the existance of ents and trees also
Menelvagor Valar: Yavanna *grin*
Eonwe Valar: Aye, but no Dwarves, no awakened Balrog of Moria, no place for Smaug to have roosted,.. :}
Menelvagor Valar: true, true.
Valandil Valar: no ents, no destruction of saruman
Eonwe Valar: No death of Thingol and ruin of Doriath in the First Age :}
Eonwe Valar: At least not by Dwarf hands. The sons of F�anor apparently deemed it unwise to come against Thingol.
Menelvagor Valar: No Az�gal, thus no Dragon Helm of Dor-Lomin.
Menelvagor Valar: thus by proxy another name of Turin gone, thus, etc. etc.
Menelvagor Valar: Az�ghal, sorry.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, but no slaying of all the petty-Dwarves, no Mim, and thus no betrayal of Turin.
ArPharazonV: no making of the knife Beren used to cut the Silmaril from Morgoth's crown :-)
Eonwe Valar: No Narsil :}
Valandil Valar: what is the meaning of petty-dwarf ?
Eonwe Valar: Well, as I recall, Mim was sort of a throwback to an earlier version of Dwarves.
Menelvagor Valar: No learning from Dwarves by Eol, thus no stuff going on between Aredhel and him, thus no Maeglin.
AriehnV: No chaining of Morgoth :-)
Eonwe Valar: No, Morgoth would've been chained :} That was because of the Elves :}
AriehnV: gawwkks
Menelvagor Valar: no driving back of Glaurung the first time he came forth.
Eonwe Valar: One sec, I'll use the search program on the Valar Guild Encyclopedia to see if we have anything on Petty-Dwarves.
Menelvagor Valar: no making of the Black Sword of Beleg, thus no slaying of Glaurung.
AriehnV: i meant of course the destrunction of Angband sorry slight cofusion ;;;
AriehnV: its getting late *grin*
Menelvagor Valar: *grin*
Eonwe Valar: let me quote this excerpt on Mim real quick:
Eonwe Valar: "Mim already figured as a dwarf in the first version of the 1915 Tale of Turambar and in the subsequent Nauglafring, when all (!) dwarves were still perceived as being evil by JRRT.
Eonwe Valar: The idea of Seven Houses with Seven Fathers was only to arise decades later.
Eonwe Valar: JRRT for the first time wrote down the idea of the dwarves being created by Aule - therefore not being altogether evil, though not having spirits like elves and men :-)
Eonwe Valar: - in the second version of the later Annals of Beleriand (1931 or later).
Eonwe Valar: I would like to point out that throughout the pre-war development of the story of the fall of Nargothrond and Doriath, Mim has always been named Mim the Fatherless (!) by Tolkien.
Eonwe Valar: He played a major role in these stories, his curse causing whole chains of events.
Eonwe Valar: As I said earlier, Mim was an idea from JRRT's youth, when he was still under the influence of other mythologies.
Eonwe Valar: Mim survived the revolutionary changes JRRT made to the stories relating the sack of Nargothrond and Doriath and the changes to the origin and character of the dwarves.
Eonwe Valar: As such he was changed from Mim the Fatherless Dwarf to Mim the Petty-Dwarf, last of his kind.
Eonwe Valar: But I do not know of any effort of JRRT to explain explicitly the extraordinary place of Mim in the context of the eventual world of the Silmarillion"
Eonwe Valar: That's what current Irmo had to say on the subject of Mim.
Eonwe Valar: There might be more to Had in the new Children of Hurin, but I haven't read it yet.
Valandil Valar: what is the meaning of the word petty ?
Menelvagor Valar: Not really Eonwe.
Menelvagor Valar: well, petty theft would be taking a sixpack out of a store.
Menelvagor Valar: for example.
Eonwe Valar: Well, typically it means small, insignificant.
Eonwe Valar: I think that would be more or less the context Tolkien would've used.
Valandil Valar: ah ok
Eonwe Valar: So perhaps a petty-Dwarf is not so big as a regular Dwarf.
Menelvagor Valar: The Children of Hurin have nothing to add on that subject.
Valandil Valar: the use would be sarcastic then. insignificant ?
Menelvagor Valar: well, they also had a mean streak to them.
Menelvagor Valar: as they had the ability to curse others and make that curse last.
Menelvagor Valar: no other Dwarf I know of could do that.
Eonwe Valar: I would say "small" would be the literal use for petty in the name petty-dwarf.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, I'm going to have to look into that now, Menel :}
Eonwe Valar: the curse part.
Menelvagor Valar: well, Thorin made an attempt at it when Bilbo stole the Heart of the Mountain to give to the Elven King in front of Erebor.
Eonwe Valar: I seem to recall Mim attributing it to all Dwarves.
ArPharazonV: well, sure, but that might just have been the earlier versions?
Menelvagor Valar: on the other hand, Thorin did "decurse" him on his deathbed.
ArPharazonV: when all Dwarves were evil, I mean
Eonwe Valar: Worth a look. I think we need a good article on Dwarves for the Encyclopedia anyway.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh, one thing I noticed from last thursday is that we are missing an entry on Turambar.
Eonwe Valar: It's 2.5 hours after the beginning of the meeting. I'm going to bang the gavel and let those who want to leave do so.
Menelvagor Valar: Not that there is much to tell other than that he was the 9th King of Gondor.
Eonwe Valar: Those of us who want to continue the conversation can stay.
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar: Yep, it doesn't seem we have a good general article on Dwarves.
AriehnV: ok thanks all for the meeting :-)
Menelvagor Valar: still have to finish my own project first.
Valandil Valar: project ?
Eonwe Valar: Thanks for coming :}
Menelvagor Valar: an article on the Music of creation.
Eonwe Valar: You're right, doesn't seem to be even a small entry for Turambar.
Menelvagor Valar: well, consider it entered :P
Eonwe Valar: Heh, I've considered an article on that as well, Menel :}
Menelvagor Valar: well, I still have the meetings and sidechats dedicated to that topics saved on my comp :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}

AriehnV has left the room.
Srekal86 has left the room.
Valandil Valar has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: I guess that's the end of it.
ArPharazonV: guess so
Menelvagor Valar: I'll let you go back to gaming, eating, studying, or whatever you are doing Eonwe.
Menelvagor Valar: you can go back to your cave and sulk some more Pharzie ;-)
Glorfindel VG has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I'm just hanging out :}
ArPharazonV: I'm playing some small games :-)
ArPharazonV: you're into archery, right, Menel?
ArPharazonV: try :-)
Menelvagor Valar: of course :-)
GilraenV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: allright, saving and sending