Valar Guild

July 1, 2007 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (10)
    Members: AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Bombur-(V)/MrMonkey2002Blah, Eonwe Valar, GilraenV, Glorfindel VG, GwaihirValar, Lindir-(V)/Curulinde, Farmer Maggot-(V)/thesirg3, VardaValar1

Meeting begins
    New Full Members: Thorin and Lindir
    Universities (during Tolkien chat):
        Menelvagor is applying to Groningen University, Netherlands
        Ar-Pharazon is applying to Utrecht University, Netherlands
    Valar Guild Site Toolbar
    Games Page Mass Update
    Second Life gaming offer to the Valar Guild
    WC 3
    WoW guild servers:
       Argent Dawn
    LotRO: Landroval server
    Architecture in Middle-earth: Hobbit-holes

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Is my day and time right?
ArPharazonV: I think so
ArPharazonV: or mine's wrong too
VardaValar1: This is into meeting time, aye?
ArPharazonV: yeah, about 10 minutes
VardaValar1: Eonwe said he'd cover for me as I was going to be late getting home, heh.
ArPharazonV: hah
VardaValar1: Thanks
GilraenV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: thought I'd invite Gilraen :-)
Curulinde has entered the room.
Curulinde: *wave*
ArPharazonV: hi
ArPharazonV: btw, Varda, I hope my trivia question wasn't too much?
GilraenV: Aiya all :-)
Curulinde: Please forgive my tardiness, it took a moment for me to figure out how to connect to you all.
ArPharazonV: I thought I might have gone a bit over the top, basically asking 9 facts, but I didn't think you lot would have much trouble with it
ArPharazonV: no worry, start is a bit slow today
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: Pardon, barely got home, collecting notes
VardaValar1: You did great, Lindir :-)
Curulinde: So this is where we solve all the world's problems, right, or at least those in Middl-earth? ;-)
VardaValar1: Lindir, meet Ar-Pharazon. Ar-Pharazon, meet Lindir :-)
VardaValar1: Right!
Curulinde: *bow* Pleasure to mee you, sir.
VardaValar1: That will be your assignment for next week.
ArPharazonV: well, or we cause them *coughs*
ArPharazonV: the problems, that is
Curulinde: *makes To-Do List* 1. Solve world's problems
Curulinde: Pardon my ignorance until I become acquainted with all of you. I know Varda as 'Fainan' in LOTRO. Do you also play LOTRO, Ar-Pharazon?
VardaValar1: Aiya Gilraen :-)
ArPharazonV: No, sorry, I'm only in World of Warcraft, concerning MMOs.
Curulinde: *nods*
VardaValar1: This is where we meet across games and continents :-)
Curulinde: Well, if you ever find yourself in Eriador, please look me up. *hands Ar-Phy his business card*
VardaValar1: All bound by having enjoyed Tolkien's work.
Curulinde: *nod*
ArPharazonV: had to make a choice as I can neither afford nor spend enough time on both games at the same time, and being European I would have been isolated from the main guild anyway, unless I went through a lot of continuous trouble
Curulinde: Curulindë Celeblammen, Minstrel Ordinaire
ArPharazonV: to get American versions and payment
MrMonkey2002Blah has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Bombur :-)
ArPharazonV: so I decided to stick in WoW
Curulinde: I understand, sir
ArPharazonV: but sure, if I ever do go into LotrO, I'll keep your card near ;-)
VardaValar1: Actually, not so bad now that they have the game cards
thesirg3 has entered the room.
Curulinde: :-)
ArPharazonV: don't you still need to get American gamecards?
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer Maggot :-)
thesirg3: Ahoy
ArPharazonV: Farmer Maggot!
ArPharazonV: Been a while
VardaValar1: It's a Midway game card, should cross over for Codemasters or Turbine, I think
VardaValar1: Good to see you!
thesirg3: Heh, thanks
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Arien, aiya!
AriehnV: Aiya, Varda :-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe is planning to be here, hope the storms in his area aren't keeping him offline.
Curulinde: Is there generally an itinerary for these meetings?
AriehnV: and the rest of you, sorry for the delay but i had to download Aim on this computer first
VardaValar1: They're moving across us now, but not bad yet. Eonwe's city is well north of us
VardaValar1: Yes, we will be starting shortly
VardaValar1: We were all delayed, so you are on time, Arien :-)
VardaValar1: I just got in from a movie
Curulinde: Okay, pardon me if I ask seemingly stupid questions until I become more acquainted with the routine. Don't worry, I catch on quickly ;-)
VardaValar1: Elwing is visiting and took the crowd in for hamburgers, going to bring one back for me :-)
AriehnV: I see , I see - Irmo was just a minute ago on LotrO but i dont know whether he is coming or not
VardaValar1: Ohhh, you made it into LotRO, Arien?!
AriehnV: did :-D
ArPharazonV: good thing to ask questions, it's better to ask stupid questions than to make stupid mistakes if you don't ask, I always say :-)
VardaValar1: Fabulous!
VardaValar1: Ask, we love to answer : )
AriehnV: Ahrienn and Arienwen, guardian and Captain respectively
Curulinde: But then there is always the thought, 'Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt' :-D
VardaValar1: I'll be starting the meeting in just a minute, and people chip in their reports in particular sections.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: I love that quote. These people already had their doubts removed for me.
GwaihirValar: Hullo
VardaValar1: Gwaihir, good you could fly in!
Curulinde: My two favorites are these: (1) Look before you leap, and (2) He who hesitates is lost
ArPharazonV: Yep, she already knows I'm a fool
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: My computer has been having interesting crashes this week, so if I go down, Gwaihir, will you be able to cover for the lapse spots?
VardaValar1: Got you stuffed in a cave under Valinor, you'll be fine, Phar.
Curulinde: The Eagles are coming! The Eagles are coming!
ArPharazonV: *takes cover*
VardaValar1: Gwaihir, if not, I'll ask Arien. : )
Curulinde: I'm sure Gwaihir is accustomed to coming to the rescue ;-)
VardaValar1: Gilraen, is Gwai afk?
AriehnV: Aye , I could offer you my carriage
VardaValar1: Curu, if you like, you can talk to me in a side window and ask all you like.
ArPharazonV: they actually *did* send Eagles at me, I think... wasn't there something about Manwe sending storms in the shapes of eagles, or actual eagles themselves, at Numenor before I invaded?
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien. You get to cover for me if a crash happens.
VardaValar1: You had plenty of warning, aye.
VardaValar1: Sailor take warning.
VardaValar1: Ok, let's start.
VardaValar1: Rest can catch up. ;-)
VardaValar1: Lindir do you know how to side window a message?
Curulinde: Side window, eh? That sounds special. ;-)
VardaValar1: We usually have a batch of them going :: )
GwaihirValar: Sorry, I just woke up so I'm still not quite conscious
VardaValar1: Np, the Lady of the Sun is covering for us. : )
AriehnV: *bows*

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership Report:
VardaValar1: As of today, we stand at 132 total members, 111 gaming members. : )
VardaValar1: and 8 of us managed to make it. So you are all natural leader types. : )
ArPharazonV: 111, hm?
ArPharazonV: for a Tolkien-guild, certainly a memorable achievement
VardaValar1: You'd think that number was made up for Bilbo, but it's real. :-)
VardaValar1: Kicking out the inactives until they reactivate keeps it manageable. : )
VardaValar1: We have two new members this week, with several inquiries.
Curulinde: Eleventy-one! :-D
VardaValar1: Aye : )
VardaValar1: Thorin-V joined us this week
Curulinde: '...I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve...'
VardaValar1: He's from Florida, and will have a birthday July 25 when he will be 20.
ArPharazonV: and I don't know half you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve ;-)
ArPharazonV: *half of you
ArPharazonV: dang, I knew I made a typo somewhere in there
Curulinde: Yeah, that's the other half of the half of you business.
VardaValar1: He has played NWN on Amia, plays WoW as Horde on Sargeras server.
VardaValar1: and currently games with us on LotRO. : )
VardaValar1: His favorite character is Gimli for courage.
VardaValar1: Our other new member is Lindir, Curulinde here in AIM : )
Curulinde: *bow*
VardaValar1: Lindir, would you like to say a few words of introduction.
Curulinde: Ah, well...
ArPharazonV: Speech, Bilbo! Speech! ...sorry, in chapter 1 mood
Curulinde: I am 45 yo and was born and raised in California
Curulinde: I've been married for 17 1/2 yers
Curulinde: years
Curulinde: no kids
Curulinde: My wife and I are known to dress as Tom Bombadil and Goldberry
Curulinde: I am told I am quite convincing
Curulinde: I enjoy singing and story-telling
Curulinde: And am very gregarious, as you may have already guessed
Curulinde: :-D
VardaValar1: No clue...
Curulinde: lol
Curulinde: I first read The Hobbit and LOTR in 1973 or thereabouts
Curulinde: I have been a BIG fan ever since
VardaValar1: Thank you, Lindir : )
Curulinde: My pleasure *bowI
Curulinde: *bow*
VardaValar1: Lindir is an excellent name choice for a minstrel such as yourself. : )
Curulinde: It is. Thank you for suggesting it to me. :-)

VardaValar1: This leads us into the Web Report:
VardaValar1: as Lindir has an entry there for us. [Art]
Curulinde: I do?
VardaValar1: It is a photo of himself performing as Tom Bombadil. : )
Curulinde: Ohh
Curulinde: That one is a few years old
VardaValar1: Take a look right here:
VardaValar1: Hard to tell your exact age in it. ; )
Curulinde: Eldest, that's what I am
VardaValar1: Nice dodge, there. : )
Curulinde: I already said how old I am
Curulinde: That was just IC for Tom
VardaValar1: Moving on to Poetry under Web
Curulinde: This is a bit of a 'how about that'
Curulinde: I am less than 2 months younger than Peter Jackson
Curulinde: I'll shut up now
VardaValar1: Barahir-(V) of India is swamped in homework and requested rhyming Tolkienesque poetry to tide him through
VardaValar1: Fortunately Jeff Russell fka Manwe-Valar came to the rescue for this week with
VardaValar1: a filk on "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" as Aragorn and company at the Black Gate of Mordor
VardaValar1: "A Battle of the Unsung"
VardaValar1: Lindir might be able to come up with the tune, done by Gordon Lightfoot.
VardaValar1: Still under Web: Stories sent in this week:
ArPharazonV: (I think Peter Jackson would have made a great Tom Bombadil ;-) )
VardaValar1: "Curse of Angmar" by Cassia-(TV) and Siobhan-(TV)
VardaValar1: It is 19 chapters, illustration is a photo-manip from Cassia-(TV).
VardaValar1: It continues their Mellon Chronicles series.
Curulinde: "Lindir might be able to come up with the tune, done by Gordon Lightfoot." - If you could read my mind, love, what a tale those those could tell...
VardaValar1: We also have a short story, one chapter, from Jay of Lasgalen
VardaValar1: (I love that song too, Lindir)
Curulinde: er, thoughts
VardaValar1: "Best Begetting Day Ever"
VardaValar1: Elladan and Elrohir are young elves almost grown up in the series at this time, and Arwen is not yet born.
VardaValar1: Still under Web, we have a batch of new articles
Curulinde: My choice for Bombadil would have been Billy Connolly (see my post here: -)
VardaValar1: by Arveleg-(V).
VardaValar1: He filled in a long-time request for "Spiders of Mirkwood"
VardaValar1: Then did a batch of his own choice from Children of Hurin:
VardaValar1: Dwarves "Ibun" and "Khim"
VardaValar1: These are mostly short pieces but some are longer
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Ibun:
ArPharazonV: the children of... what was his name...
VardaValar1: Hurin, rascal. : )
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe!
VardaValar1: Khim:
ArPharazonV: Ibun and Khim, I meant :-)
ArPharazonV: Mîm, that was it
VardaValar1: Elves: Nellas:
VardaValar1: Men: Asgon:
VardaValar1: Indor:
VardaValar1: Object, sorta. :-): Danwedh:
VardaValar1: It's like a wergild.
VardaValar1: Plants: Aeglos:
VardaValar1: Seregon:
VardaValar1: Moving from text for the website to programming goodies,
VardaValar1: Arveleg worked out a toolbar for the whole site, a neat addition if any of you would like the free download:
VardaValar1: And now the long-awaited web programming news from Eonwe! Take it away, good buddy!
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Curulinde, Brian Blessed was also suggested as old Tom? I love that actor too ;-) Mostly know him from Blackadder
VardaValar1: Aiya Glorfindel : )
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
Glorfindel VG: hello : )
Eonwe Valar: Ladies and Gentlemen, the GPMU was wrapped up yesterday, and today I give you the new Games Page.
Eonwe Valar:
Eonwe Valar: There are a few more tweaks to make, but by and large ,it's done.
Eonwe Valar: The most up-to-date gaming info is now on display, with a nice new menu and some other nifty things.
AriehnV: looks great :-)
VardaValar1: I like the use of Elatan's artwork that we sometimes use as a Valar Guild symbol. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Each Guild branch now gets its own section of menus for things like the members in that branch, events going on there, and the progress we're making.
AriehnV: I look forward to when its all working
Eonwe Valar: It is all working :}
ArPharazonV: Last updated December 31 1969.
ArPharazonV: huh?
Eonwe Valar: The tweaks I have to do are mostly visual. The structural work is pretty much complete,..
Curulinde: (I have a recording of Brian Blessed as Farmer Giles of Ham. He's great in that! I first became acquainted with him as Hawkman in Flash Gordon)
Eonwe Valar: Well, that would be the Argent Dawn Player Table, because I don't have an up-to-date one to slide in thereyet.
ArPharazonV: yes, it would ;-)
VardaValar1: but the point is that it is working.
Eonwe Valar: Yes.
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: The Ones for Lothar, Uldaman, and LotRO are all working fine. Though there's some info to fill in for LotRO :}
VardaValar1: News for you for today, Eonwe. Arien joined us in LotRO :-)
Eonwe Valar: Also, though it's been unnofically retired for some time due to lack of use, I've decided to officially retire the old Tourney Page, as I think everything it once did is pretty well handled by the Events section for the guild branch
Eonwe Valar: es
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiyata Arien
AriehnV: Hannon le
VardaValar1: Might as well. We haven't had a tourney for far too long.
ArPharazonV: tourney... like... RTS?
VardaValar1: Phar, did you ever look at our Tourney page or join in? : )
ArPharazonV: I think I did, a long long time ago in my war3 days
VardaValar1: Aye, that was pretty much the last of it.
GwaihirValar: I remember that diablo 2 tournament... that was fun
Eonwe Valar: We had tourneys for Starcaftt/Broodwar, Diablo, Diablo 2, but never really got anything going in WC3.
VardaValar1: Aye, Gwaihir, you did great in that and for your organizing help finished off your Maia honor, I believe?
GwaihirValar: That was certainly a part of it
GwaihirValar: although I actually got Maia right before Christmas of that year
Eonwe Valar: I'm pretty sure that's everything I wanted to announce. Check your gaming info, make sure it's correct, and I hope you all enjoy the new format.
VardaValar1: Thank you for your immense effort, Eonwe!
VardaValar1: You used a combination of PHP and CSS?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I decided to delve into some CSS this time around.
Eonwe Valar: It's wasn't that bad.
VardaValar1: Heh, now I have to figure it out
Eonwe Valar: A few things that decided to work oddly here and there, but I think I got those fixed.
ArPharazonV: I do remember we once played with 4-5 Valar members on one map in Warcraft 3...
ArPharazonV: I actually got into trouble with that, as we played until 5 am, my timezone ;-)
ArPharazonV: Gwaihir and Eonwe were part of the team too, I think
Eonwe Valar: I'm glad you got that many Valar into a WC3 game :}
VardaValar1: Most of our tourneys were in the Diablos, but we had some StarCraft ones that were quite popular.
VardaValar1: And since we seem to have dipped into gaming,

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: We have an offer for a Second Life game
VardaValar1: with a Tolkien theme of Numenor
VardaValar1: One of the two makers requested membership in the guild and would like a batch of real Tolkien fans in his game to help with the atmosphere.
ArPharazonV: I've heard of Second Life, but not sure what it's about?
ArPharazonV: if it's easily accessible (preferably free, but hey, can't have everything) I'll be happy to lend a hand, as is my duty as king :-)  [Note: It is free.]
VardaValar1: Tom "Nick Lassard" Lane made the offer
VardaValar1: Here is a link to a couple of his letters, which you can also reach from the News page
VardaValar1: That answers your question better than I can. : )
ArPharazonV: indeed it does
VardaValar1: Who played a game this last week that was not WoW or LotRO?
ArPharazonV: Warcraft 3
Eonwe Valar: I went ahead and added a link to that info in the LotR Game Links page as well, btw.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe!
VardaValar1: Phar, are you using East Realm, Valar channel?
ArPharazonV: more custom scenarios, mostly various Tags (Tree Tag, Sheep Tag, Kodo Tag) and some DotA-ish games like humans vs orcs, or undead/orcs vs human/elf
ArPharazonV: no, I'm not, actually, that server tends to disconnect me quite often, probably something to do with the distance
VardaValar1: For those who don't know, East Realm, Valar channel on Battlenet is our standard spot so we can all find each other. Not many on Bnet these days.
ArPharazonV: which doesn't happen in Europe
VardaValar1: Then where are you playing, Phar?
ArPharazonV: but if someone wants to meet up in US, it's fine with me, but don't be surprised if I go offline
ArPharazonV: European server
ArPharazonV: or if I leave a game early and unannounced, for example...
VardaValar1: East is Azeroth
ArPharazonV: it really is the server I think, my connection is usually fine otherwise, and I don't disconnect on Northrend
VardaValar1: and we used to play with the Lord of Lag, then Tulkas now Beren
ArPharazonV: which is the European server
ArPharazonV: Lag is no problem, but actual disconnects are quite discouraging for me to continue on US server
VardaValar1: This seems to be a low number of games non MMORP for this wekk.
VardaValar1: Understood, Phar.
VardaValar1: *week
VardaValar1: Anyone else?
Eonwe Valar: I played some WotR.
Eonwe Valar: and some Starcraft.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe : )
VardaValar1: I've been mostly handling web stuff, as you saw on the earlier web report, or LotRO.
ArPharazonV: talking about Starcraft, they're releasing more information about the Protoss buildings and units lately
VardaValar1: On Blizzard's site?
ArPharazonV: aye
VardaValar1: Thanks for the URL :-)
Eonwe Valar: I've been mostly working on the Games Page this week, but found time for a few break in the process.
Eonwe Valar: *breaks
VardaValar1: Glad you could. Sad for the Games page maker not to get to play games!
VardaValar1: Onwards to WoW!
VardaValar1: Arien, go ahead with the report for Europe's Argent Dawn server, if you would?
AriehnV: Sure , Varda
AriehnV: This thursday our daunty threesome, Ariehnn, Menelvagor and Ardacyerme (Valandil's druid) met up in Lakeshire to do some of the Redridge Quests.
AriehnV: We baited the gnolls, got rid of some murlocs
AriehnV: however we got bored with chasing them for spotted sunfish - so we had a go at the lake thresher, no greater problems there.
AriehnV: But unfortunately the two male members got tired pretty soon and we withdrew to Lakeshire where we still wait for the continuation of our tasks :-) This endeth my report.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, would you like to do the WoW Lothar report next?
Eonwe Valar: Sure.
Eonwe Valar: My report comes mostly from early in the day Friday. Bilbo, Sauron, and I got together to complete a couple of quests in Nehterstorm, then headed back to Blade's Edge.
Eonwe Valar: In Netherstorm, we claimed some items from a mechgineer and a pit lord to be able to transport to their boss.
Eonwe Valar: Then we fought Veraku amidst many giant crystals so that a blue dragon disguised as a high elf could attempt to infiltrate the Netherdragons there.
Eonwe Valar: We also shut down a forge camp so the Legion in Netherstorm could not be reinforced.
Eonwe Valar: In Blade's Edge Mountains, we put a son of Gruul to sleep, killed some people worshipping black dragons, and took out another Legion base.
Eonwe Valar: That does it for my report.
Curulinde: *passes around plate of pastries*
AriehnV: /me thanks Lindir
Curulinde: Coffee is brewing ;-)
VardaValar1: Thanks Eonwe and Lindir ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Pardon. Later in the day during normal questing time, Elwing, Eowyn, and Fangorn were also on. I did not stay on very long at that point, having had quite a long day.
Eonwe Valar: Now done.
VardaValar1: Thank you Eonwe : )
Eonwe Valar: MP
VardaValar1: Elwing is in the room and says hi : )
Curulinde: /wave Elwing
VardaValar1: She says she still sees Theodwyn as Vaire there [Note: Uldaman server] and they chat a bit.
VardaValar1: In Uldaman server, sorry.
Eonwe Valar: That's good to hear.
VardaValar1: and she saw a guild friend who starts with the letter N but can't think how it was spelled. : )
VardaValar1: She'll think of it later. ; )
VardaValar1: Elwing plays mostly as Horde on the Uldaman server, but drops into Lothar now and then, knowing we have our biggest bunch on Fridays. : )
VardaValar1: LotRO report:
VardaValar1: I didn't make one this time and deeply apologize.
VardaValar1: However, in general
VardaValar1: we have quite a few people actively gaming and keep adding more.
AriehnV: Inclusive ...
VardaValar1: Most new members are coming from there.
AriehnV: Ahrienn - a wee Guardian ,,, , Arienwen a new Champion :-D
VardaValar1: Arien just joined us there. Arien, do you have any first impressions?
VardaValar1: and how is your lag?
Curulinde: *goes to check on coffee*
AriehnV: My lag is not too bad, i have had worse on WoW. For a first impression i have to admit that i dont like the modern graphics for the characters too well , its just not my taste.
VardaValar1: Modern graphics? Sorry, lost me. : )
AriehnV: But maybe it just needs getting used to - you know they all look like Lara Croft ;-)
AriehnV: in comparison to the WoW characters ..
VardaValar1: I must respectfully disagree with that after seeing Lara Croft, but ok. : )
ArPharazonV: many of the people on my European guild who have played LotRO have complained about the graphics being too "realistic"
ArPharazonV: WoW is just famous for being cartoonish
AriehnV: Game play is quite similar aye, and you can see the same hands in the design i think
AriehnV: i have to look round a bit more and discover the fineries
ArPharazonV: after playing Warcraft (all episodes) for many years, it's indeed getting used to games with non-cartoonish graphics
VardaValar1: The game play for most MMORPG's has some similarity, just that you are used to WoW I suspect.
AriehnV: I will see in the next two months :-)
ArPharazonV: but other games, Morrowind, Oblivion, Guildwars, don't seem that different from LotRO in "realism" concerning graphics...
ArPharazonV: so it's indeed just getting over what you're used to in WoW :-)
VardaValar1: Phar, I think you hit the nail on the head.
AriehnV: guess so , and i miss the underlaying music
VardaValar1: Turn up the music. It's there. : )
AriehnV: good good :-)
ArPharazonV: wouldn't be a problem for me, I still have my winamp list with all 3 movies' soundtracks set on random :-)
Curulinde: *returns to the room with 3 stout dwarves bearing coffee, mugs, cream, sugar, etc.*
VardaValar1: You might want to explore the settings a bit more
Curulinde: Enjoy, everyone!
AriehnV: Thank you , Lindir :-)
ArPharazonV: *bows to Lindir* thank you!
AriehnV: I will , Varda , I will
VardaValar1: Lindir, did you have any comments on how you found LotRO?
Curulinde: Hmmm
Curulinde: You want the long version or the short version?
VardaValar1: I didn't know you could do short versions. ;-)
Curulinde: (If you don't want to be hear all night I suggest 'short')
Curulinde: Believe it or not, it is possible
VardaValar1: We do hope to get into a Tolkien chat next. : )
Curulinde: Well, the short version...
Curulinde: I was sent an email invitation to play in open beta
Curulinde: Got hooked
Curulinde: Bought a new PC
Curulinde: Joined Landroval after I heard it was the unofficial RP server
Curulinde: That's the extremely short version :-D
VardaValar1: What hooked you?
Curulinde: Uh, everything?
Curulinde: lol
Curulinde: it is an awesome, awesome game
Curulinde: I give it two yellow boots up ;-)
Curulinde: FYI - I last played an MMORPG four years ago
Curulinde: EQ for four years
Curulinde: Got burned out on it
Curulinde: It became like a 2nd job
Curulinde: It was no longer fun, and so I stopped
Curulinde: LOTRO is far, far better than EQ ever was
VardaValar1: Can you think of one improvement over EQ to tell us?
Curulinde: Time sinks are not even nearly close to being as bad
Curulinde: And it's in Middle-earth
Curulinde: :-D
Curulinde: LOTRO has a smart design
Curulinde: The EQ was designed player vs. player conflicts are inevitable
Curulinde: Much less likelihood of that occurring in LOTRO
Curulinde: Kill stealing, etc. stuff like that
Curulinde: The quest system is awesome too
Curulinde: No sitting in one place for hours and hours grinding experience
Curulinde: Zzzzzzz
Curulinde: LOTRO seems to combine the fun of single player PC games with MMORPGs
Curulinde: Those most of it
Curulinde: er, that's...
VardaValar1: Thank you, Lindir
VardaValar1: If there is no further gaming news?

VardaValar1: We move on to Tolkien!
VardaValar1: If none of you have a topic, I will start one off. : )
VardaValar1: Any of you have one?
ArPharazonV: we had something about housing in Middle-Earth, I think?
ArPharazonV: starting with hobbit-holes and going on from there? :-)
VardaValar1: In the Two Towers is an interlude with the Fellowship at peace in Isengard, called Flotsam and Jetsam.
VardaValar1: Hah! Ok, on to hobbit holes
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Phar : )
ArPharazonV: but we can do that any week, your choice ;-)
VardaValar1: You found that on the web, something to do with architecture?
ArPharazonV: allright, a few weeks ago I was looking at a series on tv
ArPharazonV: called Grand Designs, I think
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Menelvagor! : )
ArPharazonV: about the process of building houses, but usually focusing on houses with strange features or locations, custom-built, and the problems it can present
ArPharazonV: and that particular week focused on a house that was built mostly underground, to be environment-friendly, which immediately reminded me of Hobbit-homes
ArPharazonV: but there were major problems, with lack of light, having to make all the walls and floors waterproof, and using material that could withstand the pressure of the hill they were going to throw over it
ArPharazonV: eventually making materials necessary, like concrete, which were not produced very friendly to the environment after all ;-)
ArPharazonV: and I was wondering about the realism of these houses, hobbit-holes, the problems they would face during the building and maintenance
ArPharazonV: and if it was actually feasible in those "medieval" times
Curulinde: Not to mention the construction of the Argonath
ArPharazonV: from that, we could move to other special types of residences and architecture in middle-earth
ArPharazonV: like the Argonath, for example, aye
ArPharazonV: so to start us off... how would hobbit builders deal with the problems I just mentioned?
VardaValar1: The Numenoreans had special knowledge that they learned from Elves who had contact with Valinor, many secrets that have been lost.
Curulinde: Sorry, didn't mean to steal your punchline *blush*
ArPharazonV: no worries, I didn't have the Argonath in mind as an example, but it is a good one
Menelvagor Valar: Considering people managed to build Stonehenge about 3000 years back, I'd say the Argonath would actually be simple.
VardaValar1: Hobbit holes may have had some input from miner's knowledge?
ArPharazonV: depends on the material of the hills in which they are cut, I suppose? miners usually work in rocky tunnels, supported by beams and harder rock, I'd think
Menelvagor Valar: Excuse me for interrupting Tolkien chat, and sorry for being late to boot, but I have some news I am just dying to share *grin*
ArPharazonV: go ahead
Menelvagor Valar: In consideration of my recent internship and the conclusions attached to it, I have decided to quit school.
Menelvagor Valar: However, that is good news!
Menelvagor Valar: Because if all goes well (and I expect it does), I will be going to University instead *dances*
ArPharazonV: whee!
ArPharazonV: which University?
VardaValar1: *throws shiny confetti!*
Menelvagor Valar: Groningen.
VardaValar1: Where is that?
Menelvagor Valar: (northern part of the Netherlands)
VardaValar1: Thank you : )
ArPharazonV: aww
ArPharazonV: and I have just visited the university of Utrecht this past thursday
Menelvagor Valar: I might take a hike towards the south though.
Eonwe Valar: Congrats Menel :}
ArPharazonV: first visit to the place I'll be spending the next 4 years studying, if all goes well
Menelvagor Valar: but that depends on another project I have been working on for a while *smile*
ArPharazonV: hoped I'd see you there!
Menelvagor Valar: I'd be just 2 hours away by train.
Menelvagor Valar: but anyways.
Menelvagor Valar: that was my bit of news :-)
Menelvagor Valar: let's continue the Tolkien chat and Pharzie and I can take this to side chat if so desired *smile*
ArPharazonV: ah yes, hobbitholes... I'm not sure what the material of the hills of the Shire is?
ArPharazonV: hard rock or soft earth?
VardaValar1: I am going to have to be pulling out. Been here two hours, and have guests. Sorry.
ArPharazonV: considering its fertility I'd say the latter, but that may be difficult digging stable holes in without some modern reinforcement
ArPharazonV: allright
ArPharazonV: not to mention the water-trouble you would have to contend iwth
ArPharazonV: *with
ArPharazonV: and am I alone here now? ;-)
VardaValar1: The holes seemed to be up in the hills rather than basement like
VardaValar1: more up
ArPharazonV: true enough, that may be easier concerning water, but wouldn't it seep in anyway?
Curulinde: I think I need to go, too. We can table the discussion of the airpseed velocity of an unladen Gwaihir 'til next week. ;-)
VardaValar1: maybe they had drainage holes out the side
Curulinde has left the room.
ArPharazonV: what would the ceilings, floors, walls be made of? stone? wood?
ArPharazonV: could they withstand the pressure of the hill on top of them?
VardaValar1: yes, they seemed to have all the proper supports and use of wood
VardaValar1: I would expect use of rock as well
VardaValar1: Arches are an excellent load bearer and they already had a suggestion of using that from the round doors.
ArPharazonV: true, that
VardaValar1: I'm sorry about going, and hope some others will pick up the thread.
ArPharazonV: how about light? lots of windows on every side?
VardaValar1: and add to the Forum rp! hint hint
VardaValar1: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: oh, yes, Menel, make some post in that thread, we're not even sure if you still have your horse :-)
Eonwe Valar: It hasn't been mentioned since we arrived at Dale :} But Thranduil wouldn't be pleased if you left one of his soldiers' horses behind :}
VardaValar1: I plan on picking up a strong new bay in Mirkwood that can easily handle doubling up since we do it a lot and in case the pony is too slow.
Menelvagor Valar: Sorry, just been busy on zounds of other things.
Menelvagor Valar: school being the second most prominent.
VardaValar1: Once a week you can pop into the Forum ;-)
VardaValar1: for a few minutes.
Menelvagor Valar: I know, just got lost in the chaos that is my mind.
VardaValar1: We hear that. : )
VardaValar1: Cheers!
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: allright, more hobbit-hole talk or move on? we can always talk Argonath :-)
Menelvagor Valar: not sure whether it is mentioned...
Menelvagor Valar: but hobbit holes are not exactly built.
Menelvagor Valar: they are dug out of the earth.
AriehnV: Hobbits i would think do prefer wood and clayu to build ther holes, especially as .. exactly that ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: much like the dwarves cut out their underground halls.
ArPharazonV: dug out of the earth, yeah, but still in need of support from the inside, right?
Menelvagor Valar: I would say they'd use some kind of clay plaster and paint to make the ceiling and walls waterproof.
Menelvagor Valar: Of course.
Menelvagor Valar: It was magnicifently shown in the movies.
ArPharazonV: and I think Dwarves tend to cut/mine in a lot harder rock?
Menelvagor Valar: A lot of beams supporting the weight of the hill.
Menelvagor Valar: but Dwarves cut a lot deeper, there is much less weight to support for hobbit holes.
ArPharazonV: tell that to the Brandybucks, didn't they dig through the entire size of the hill?
ArPharazonV: the lower holes would still be under a lot of pressure
thesirg3 has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: As I remember, it was never said that there were rooms dug under other rooms.
Menelvagor Valar: just "deeper" into the hill.
Menelvagor Valar: Stone I would suppose can manage structural integrity when there is a thick enough layer between rooms.
ArPharazonV: they were all the dug at the same relative hight-level?
Menelvagor Valar: For earth, I think the layer would have to be much thicker to have the same effect.
Eonwe Valar: Sorry guys. It's time for me to take my leave as well.
Menelvagor Valar: no, just deeper as in horizontally and slightly vertically.
Eonwe Valar: Take care all, good night, sleep well, and have fun.
Menelvagor Valar: Good night Eonwe.
ArPharazonV: Namarie Eonwe
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: any idea how high that hill was anyway?
Menelvagor Valar: nope.
Menelvagor Valar: but if you figure that it would have to end somewhere, thus sloping down at the sides...
Menelvagor Valar: then you can suppose they dug "deeper" to keep the same height in the rooms as elsewhere.
ArPharazonV: wouldn't the rooms deepest in the hill have most of the hill pushing down upon them?
ArPharazonV: if the hill is indeed sloping, and thus highest on its centre? give or take
Menelvagor Valar: I would think those rooms in the middle of the hill would.
ArPharazonV: yeah, that's what I mean
Menelvagor Valar: Well, those rooms would technically speaking need the most support.
Menelvagor Valar: which can be achieved by several beams crossing over and meeting in the center.
Menelvagor Valar: Much like a church over the altar.
ArPharazonV: they would also see little to no natural light, would they?
ArPharazonV: or have shafts for light, or something?
Menelvagor Valar: That would be true.
Menelvagor Valar: Shafts might do, but that would let the rain in as well.
Menelvagor Valar: and that could corrupt the earth above them.
ArPharazonV: *nod*
Menelvagor Valar: and if the hill would be particularly high, they would have no effective way of making that part waterproof.
Menelvagor Valar: So, with earth, that would essentially mean that collapse is evident.
Menelvagor Valar: If I remember correctly, normal hobbit holes had the living rooms at the outer sides of the hill, so they had plenty of natural light.
ArPharazonV: I saw in that series I talked about at the start, about tubes mirroring in their insides, with glass/metal ends to keep the rain from coming in... but I doubt hobbits would have access to that :-)
ArPharazonV: normal ones, yeah, but in larger hills or tunnels...
Menelvagor Valar: the rooms towards the middle were more like dressing rooms, cellars, wine cellars, store rooms.
Menelvagor Valar: the Brandybucks deviated from this.
Menelvagor Valar: because the Brandyburg was so much larger.
ArPharazonV: dressing rooms without natural light, eh? ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: Yeah.
Menelvagor Valar: Bag End had a number of those dug deeper to the center of the hill.
ArPharazonV: you'd come out wearing 2 different kinds of socks!
Menelvagor Valar: lamps and stuff?
Menelvagor Valar: hobbits would very likely use lamps.
ArPharazonV: true enough
Menelvagor Valar: mostly because they had generally cozy rooms, whether it be bedroom, living room or dressing room.
ArPharazonV: at least no worries about neighbours peeping through the windows to see you change, though
Menelvagor Valar: The Dwarves were much more aloft in their building, so in their halls you would expect hundreds of torches.
Menelvagor Valar: But for their private rooms I'd imagine they'd use lamps as well.
Menelvagor Valar: quite simply because the last thing you want to do is throw your clothes over your shoulder and have it catch a torch.
Menelvagor Valar: or when you change your trousers get smoke from the torch into your eyes.
ArPharazonV: ahh, always fun to play with fire
Menelvagor Valar: depends on whether your room is stuffed with any flammable material *grin*
Menelvagor Valar: I think it would be rather stupid to take a torch into the oil cellar =-O
ArPharazonV: would have to be careful with wine too, no doubt
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
ArPharazonV: especially if it's in wooden barrels?
ArPharazonV: how did Thranduil keep the light in his wine cellar? :-)
Menelvagor Valar: well, generally barrels are coated with some stuff that would prevent it either from leaking or burning.
Menelvagor Valar: Elves were particularly good at making lamps, remember?
Menelvagor Valar: I'd imagine the Dwarves of Khazad Dhum having a couple when they still got along with them pointy ears :-D
ArPharazonV: true, but were those just the Noldor or the Silvans too?
Menelvagor Valar: Silvans as well I reckon.
Menelvagor Valar: consider Menegroth.
Menelvagor Valar: and the Girdle of Melian, where it was always dark and easy to get lost.
ArPharazonV: that's Sindar, and if I remember right that was mostly torches, or not?
ArPharazonV: not sure
Menelvagor Valar: mostly torches, but that implies they did have some lamps.
Menelvagor Valar: And I would think the Silvan to have the same kind of thing.
ArPharazonV: perhaps, perhaps
ArPharazonV: after all, Thranduil did have Silvan ancestry, right?
ArPharazonV: *Sindar
Menelvagor Valar: Can't recall anything stating that.
Menelvagor Valar: however, Sindar and Silvan are both Avari.
ArPharazonV: I think Oropher or one of his ancestors was Sindar, not sure, think it was in UT
Menelvagor Valar: the only thing that sets them apart is that Thingol and Melian had seen the light and reflected their knowledge and light upon their people.
Menelvagor Valar: so the Sindar were greater in lore and craftsmanship than the other Avari.
ArPharazonV: craftsmanship, aye.... like lamps, perhaps :-)
Menelvagor Valar: that does not in any way exclude the Avari from having any kind of craftsmanship.
Menelvagor Valar: after all, they are still Elves.
Menelvagor Valar: and that means a long, long time to work on their knowledge.
ArPharazonV: hmm, that's true
ArPharazonV: allright, so they probably had lamps then :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I admit they wouldn't be as good as those of the Sindar, not even close to those of the Noldor, but would still be better than any oil lamp the mortal races used.
AriehnV: ok friends it is time for me to go :-( unfortunately I am on late shift this week until wednesday but I still shall see you two in WoW at some point :-)
ArPharazonV: think the hobbits used torches much in their wood-supported holes? :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Ariehn!
AriehnV: Namarie, Phara , Menel, Gwaihir and all the others!
AriehnV has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie Arien.
Menelvagor Valar: No.
Menelvagor Valar: The hobbits used either natural light or oil lamps.
Menelvagor Valar: the smoke from the torches would soon make a hobbit hole unlivable.
ArPharazonV: where would they get the oil?
Menelvagor Valar: I have no idea.
Menelvagor Valar: but they are inventive people those little buggers *grin*
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: interesting question though, with all those people using oil lamps, where does all the oil come from?
Menelvagor Valar: Don't forget that the hobbits were master hunters.
ArPharazonV: I don't recall any resource gathering activities at sea, especially not dwarven or hobbit related... so it would have to be sources on land then
ArPharazonV: animal fat?
Menelvagor Valar: many animals have a great deal of animal fat which can be converted into oil.
ArPharazonV: would it be enough?
Menelvagor Valar: No idea :-P
Menelvagor Valar: that would be a question Tolkien never answered.
Menelvagor Valar: I'd say it would eventually run out...
ArPharazonV: unless they were skilled with livestock
Menelvagor Valar: but then again, hobbits and dwarves never spilled as much as humans do.
Menelvagor Valar: also, if I remember correctly, some plants can be used for making oil.
Menelvagor Valar: lots of plants actually, depending on what kind of oil you want.
Menelvagor Valar: I suppose the hobbits would have a number of vinyards cultivating such plants.
ArPharazonV: interesting!
ArPharazonV: I don't suppose you could stuff plants in a lamp and set it on fire without it causing smoke?
Menelvagor Valar: well, there is always some smoke from the wicker.
Menelvagor Valar: but depending on the quality of the oil, smoke may increase.
ArPharazonV: well, I gotta get myself to bed, I'll see you next week
Menelvagor Valar: Till next week Phar.
Menelvagor Valar: will you send the transcript?
ArPharazonV: yeah, I will
Menelvagor Valar: Okidoke.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie then. I will be off myself soon as well.
ArPharazonV: was the first in the room too, but if anything noteworthy happens after I save it, you can save too :-)
Menelvagor Valar: not likely, as it will be minutes before I go.
ArPharazonV: allright