Valar Guild

February 11, 2007 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharzon-(V) and Varda-(Valar)

Attending: (13)
    Members: Ancalagon-(V)/Sarujil, ArPharazonV, Arwen V1, Beorn-(V)/twosurlydwarves, Bombur-(V)/MrMonkey2002Blah, Elros-(V)/LouieKisKowsKi, Eonwe Valar, FinduilasV, Gilraen-(V)/Star of Phaet, GwaihirValar, VardaValar1 (presiding)
    Visitors: LaurealasseHelka, Srekal86

Meeting begins
       "Of Gorthaur and Gothmog" by Enerdhil-(TV)
       "The Fords of Isen" by Branwyn-(TV)
    LotRO pre-order, Open Beta
       Ar-Pharazon's question: What if you heal people who are fighting mobs you're not at war with/have good reputation with?
       WoW Argent Dawn (Euro)
       WoW Lothar
       WoW Uldaman
    Beorn-(V)'s topic: The meaning of the name "Beowulf" and its relation to "Beorn".

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: thought I wouldn't make it in time, but the Old Hillsbrad instance was a lot faster than I anticipated!
ArPharazonV: we rescued thrall :-)
VardaValar1: Congrats!
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Gwai!
MrMonkey2002Blah has entered the room.
Star of Phaet has entered the room.
twosurlydwarves has entered the room.
MrMonkey2002Blah: Hail
Srekal86 has entered the room.
Star of Phaet: Aiya folks
twosurlydwarves: do you think it might?
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: of course, we had a friendly lvl 70 holy paladin to heal, so it wasn't very hard
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
LaurealasseHelka has entered the room.
LaurealasseHelka: ((Hey.
VardaValar1: Glad you could make it : )
LaurealasseHelka: Yeah.
VardaValar1: Pardon, guest leaving
VardaValar1: back
twosurlydwarves: front!
twosurlydwarves: I know, it's old
ArPharazonV: is there a reason the news-page suddenly looks italic to me?
VardaValar1: Pardon, am working on that : )
VardaValar1: Which quote is on top?
ArPharazonV: If you haven't already, let Varda know that you would like to help continue the Valar Guild by being counted as a member for 2007. People who can 't be contacted will be dropped at the end of February.
ArPharazonV: oh, quote
VardaValar1: aye : )
ArPharazonV: 'The Ents are going to wake up and find that they are strong.'-Gandalf.TTT
VardaValar1: Thanks
ArPharazonV: ah, it depends on the quote... when I refresh I get a different quote, and the rest of the text goes normal again
twosurlydwarves: someone forgot an end tag ;-)
ArPharazonV: after refreshing a bunch of times, that seems to be the only quote that does it
VardaValar1: Ok, fixed the end tag
VardaValar1: That would be me. I was just working on the quotes when the meeting came up.
VardaValar1: Right, Beorn : )
VardaValar1: I hope that's the last one, got in a rush
VardaValar1: Holler if you spot another!
VardaValar1: Finduilas says she's eating dinner but should be with us in maybe five minutes.
VardaValar1: Eonwe may not make it. He has a German project that requires him to be elsewhere with his group.
VardaValar1: He'll try to be here if he can
ArPharazonV: lvl 67 today! 1 more to flying form, and 3 more in total :-)
VardaValar1: Nice! I made all of 61 on Fainan
VardaValar1: So is everyone punching the News page for quotes with no end tags? : )
VardaValar1: I think it's ok now
twosurlydwarves: so far so good for me
VardaValar1: yay!
VardaValar1: Let's start. The others will have to catch up!

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership News:
VardaValar1: You probably just read most of it on the News page, but here goes
VardaValar1: Aragorn changed his mind about dropping Full Membership while in the military, and no the name is not free. ;-)
VardaValar1: Thingol is looking for fellow Runescape players that are Valar members
VardaValar1: Email him : )
VardaValar1: Enerdhil-(TV) is a new Tolkien-only member this week.
VardaValar1: Telchar who joined us a short time felt that he was not a good fit for the guild. He is welcome back, as we disagree. He was just having a bad day.
VardaValar1: A realllly bad day.
VardaValar1: Never make decisions on days like that. ;-)
FinduilasV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back from dinner, Finduilas : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya Finduilas!
FinduilasV: thankies and it was well earned ;-)
FinduilasV: Aiya all
VardaValar1: twosurlydwarves is considering joining the guild as Beorn and looks to be a shoo-in when he does his try-out. : )
VardaValar1: Any further membership news?
FinduilasV: /me shakes head

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Enerdhil-(TV) sent us a new story, original, for his (TV) honor entry:
VardaValar1: "Of Gorthaur and Gothmog"
VardaValar1: Branwyn-(TV) is also new this week, sorry I left her out of the Membership news
VardaValar1: She sent "The Fords of Isen" as a story
VardaValar1: previously published on Stories of Arda. She is permitting us to archive a batch more of them as well.
VardaValar1: A ghost story, Rohirric style
VardaValar1: Any further Web news?
VardaValar1: Most of the webbers aren't here, makes this section short. ;-)

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: Who played a game online that was not WoW? : )
VardaValar1: this week, I mean.
VardaValar1: LotRO pre-ordering is available, and they will let such folk join the Open Beta.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Look up the Valar Guild there
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: Heya
ArPharazonV: so it's no longer the game that can't be named, then?
VardaValar1: We just did Member, Web, and now on Gaming
VardaValar1: Well, yes it is the game that cannot be mentioned still
VardaValar1: if you are in Beta2
VardaValar1: since that is not Open Beta
ArPharazonV: I see
VardaValar1: but soon, we can be more free in speech. : )
VardaValar1: It's been a busy place ;-)
VardaValar1: WoW Euro, do we have a report?
FinduilasV: Yes a little report
VardaValar1: Fire when ready, Fin : )
FinduilasV: Finduias visited with Orophin the Sunken Temple in the sorrowful swamp
FinduilasV: he acted as both healer and tank, which was a bit confusing first ..
FinduilasV: it was hard going since we were not really sure of our way and had connection problems
FinduilasV: which unfortunately lead to several disconnects and resulting deaths, finally it got too long and Orophin had to leave
FinduilasV: (small note: the group did get to the end includinga all bosses)
FinduilasV: It got very early though ;-)
VardaValar1: O good! : )
FinduilasV: Later Failivrin and Caradhras had a spot of hunting in Stranglethorn
FinduilasV: Caradhras is Valandil; s mage
FinduilasV: Tigers, raptors, Kurzen fighters , panthers and murlocs , basilisks and trolls learned to fear the combined forces of hunter and mage
FinduilasV: After finishing the tasks successfully both hunters said fairwell and went to their well earned rest
FinduilasV: :-)
FinduilasV: I am done
VardaValar1: Sounds sort of final. I hope it was Irmo's rest and not Namo's. : )
VardaValar1: Thank you, Finduilas!
VardaValar1: Eonwe, could you give the WoW Lothar server report?
Eonwe Valar: Sure
Eonwe Valar: Varda, Dracxil, and I did some questing for them in Hellfire Peninsula, later joined for a while by Arwen.
Eonwe Valar: After Beline and Arwen left, Varda and I did a bit more questing, chatting with Cudaerg in the process.
Eonwe Valar: Also on were Eowyn, with whom Arwen had been playing before joining us.
Eonwe Valar: Arathorn and Jonac were in the Valar channel.
Eonwe Valar: That concludes the report.
VardaValar1: Thank you Eonwe!
ArPharazonV: how're you all liking Outland then?
ArPharazonV: fallen off the edge yet? :-)
VardaValar1: Don't want to go back to the old area. Haven't fallen off the edge, but came close. ;-)
ArPharazonV: well, there's no AH in Outland, and no classtrainers
ArPharazonV: so you'll have to go back to Azeroth sooner or later :-)
VardaValar1: There's a lot of portals in Shattrath
twosurlydwarves has left the room.
FinduilasV: /me is proud that Finduilasse did not fall once off cliff edges in Zul Gurup
VardaValar1: Jump back and forth
ArPharazonV: true, Varda
twosurlydwarves has entered the room.
twosurlydwarves: sorry about that
ArPharazonV: as a druid, I just teleport to moonglade and talk to a trainer there
ArPharazonV: then hearthstone back :-)
VardaValar1: Efficient. : )
ArPharazonV: I've got alts sitting at the auction house to do my business for me, any items I want to sell or buy and any money involved just goes through the mail
ArPharazonV: only problem is that I started exploring the Caverns of Time now, so that sends me all the way back to Tanaris from time to time ;-)
FinduilasV: You can help findu with anachronos then :D
ArPharazonV: anachronos is no longer in the way, they moved him to the side
FinduilasV: /me looks innocently
VardaValar1: Uldaman server is collecting Blood Elves. : )
ArPharazonV: besides, I'm not fighting Anachronos, I'm exalted with his faction :P
VardaValar1: We still need to have officer presence there to help with invites
VardaValar1: and we need to remember to put our new characters in Valar friend channel.
VardaValar1: Also, for those concerned about Lothar dividing us up since we have characters in Valar Guild and in others,
ArPharazonV: it poses an interesting question, though... what if you heal people who are fighting mobs you're not at war with/have good reputation with?
ArPharazonV: do you still get drawn into the fight?
VardaValar1: remember you can always keep up the Valar friend channel, and bring in any polite, fun people you want to meet again.
twosurlydwarves: no, they ignore you as a target
twosurlydwarves: friend and I were allied with opposite centaur clans, and he would heal me all the time
ArPharazonV: and if you would die, the mob would ignore him?
twosurlydwarves: no response from them
ArPharazonV: interesting
VardaValar1: Whisper Tolkien topic suggestions please
ArPharazonV: btw, did your friend get negative reputation then if a mob was killed?
ArPharazonV: well, negative with his own faction, that is
twosurlydwarves: I don't recall

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
ArPharazonV: if he would gain the rep for your faction, but not lose the rep for his, you could use a system like that to get friendly with both factions... but I doubt that's the case :-)
VardaValar1: Beorn-to-be in-game said some comments that were interesting to pass on.
VardaValar1: Would you like to repeat about the name of Beowulf?
twosurlydwarves: oh - lol, ok
twosurlydwarves: I'm an Old English buff
twosurlydwarves: and in Old English and Scandinavian writing there is a device called a "kenning"
twosurlydwarves: it's a sort of play on words, like a battle being called instead a "raven feast" or the sea being called the "ship road"
twosurlydwarves: they get pretty complicated, with kennings layering references sometimes
twosurlydwarves: the name "Beowulf" is actually a kenning for "Beorn"
twosurlydwarves: Beorn means "bear"
twosurlydwarves: "Beowulf" means literally "bee wolf", ie "honey thief"
twosurlydwarves: bear
VardaValar1: Thank you. That is both interesting and funny.
ArPharazonV: indeed!
VardaValar1: Wolf was a term used for thieves or other outcasts that were forced into the woods for survival.
ArPharazonV: I wonder if Tolkien knew that... but as a teacher of the subject, I suspect that to be the case :-)
VardaValar1: He certainly knew. He taught Beowulf for years, the story that is.
twosurlydwarves: he wrote a lot of articles about kennings in OE poetry
VardaValar1: The other Tolkien topic suggested, for which we may have to pin his ears back, was "Balrog wings".
twosurlydwarves: :P
VardaValar1: Kennings seem to have survived in lesser form as puns. : )
VardaValar1: The Irish liked to make common words and statements into something more interesting and creative
VardaValar1: and expected everyone to be able to do poetry on the spot.
VardaValar1: The Norse were like that in the poetry too
VardaValar1: They had to cultivate very good memories.
twosurlydwarves: got to love the oral storytelling and bardic tradition
VardaValar1: Now we write it down instead. One hopes that will not affect our brain capacity genetically. : )
VardaValar1: Aye!
twosurlydwarves: I refuse to write down any of my stories. It seems to lessen them somewhat.
VardaValar1: That is sad
VardaValar1: Since many of us will never be able to hear them told.
Sarujil has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Maybe you could give the lesser version and tweak it now and then, or add alternate versions
VardaValar1: Aiya Ancalagon!
twosurlydwarves: Sure you will, get on to voice chat with me sometime, and I'll tell you - then you can pass them on yourself. ;-)
Sarujil: hi
Eonwe Valar: Glad not all writers feel like that. We'd have no fiction :}
Eonwe Valar: or literature :}
twosurlydwarves: This is true. It's just that with mine, they change with every telling.
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien saw writing as an act of subcreation.
twosurlydwarves: Not that I've not written, mind you - I just have stories that I want passed on orally, because of the traditions involved.
twosurlydwarves: I've actually had someone tell me one of my own stories at an SCA event before, not knowing it was mine.
twosurlydwarves: And that's perfect, in my book.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: And it was still recognizable. : )
twosurlydwarves: Like I always say, it appeals to my inner Viking.
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: We need to drag twosurlydwarves into another room to haze, er, induct him into the guild. : )
ArPharazonV: great! good luck :-)
VardaValar1: Those of you who are working towards Maia or are Maia and want to come along, let me know for the room invitation.
twosurlydwarves: Is this when I get dunked in the vat of mustard? :-(
VardaValar1: The rest of you have free talk or can join up in a game or game
VardaValar1: s
VardaValar1: Yes
VardaValar1: You want wet or dry mustard?
Eonwe Valar: Don't worry, we do have Grey Poupon.
VardaValar1: Finduilas, Eonwe, myself...
VardaValar1: any others?
twosurlydwarves: There we go then. I'm all for it.
VardaValar1: (afk, sneaking off to games and stories)
VardaValar1: (two probably holding hands over there. You know who you are.)
VardaValar1: Short break requested
FinduilasV: here I am here
ArPharazonV: it's not me!
VardaValar1: back
Eonwe Valar: Aiyata
VardaValar1: Hantal : )
FinduilasV: and this means?
ArPharazonV: thank you, I think..
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Aiyata is welcome back
VardaValar1: Hantal is thank you
VardaValar1: Now you can use it too!
FinduilasV: Hantal :-)
VardaValar1: I hear arguments on whether the other is hannon le or le hannon : )
VardaValar1: There you go!
Eonwe Valar: hannon le sounds more natural to me.
VardaValar1: Movie made hannon le famous.
ArPharazonV: le hannon sounds french :-)
VardaValar1: Aye : )
twosurlydwarves: The movie also claimed that "Evenstar" was a piece of jewelry, not a name.
VardaValar1: That was annoying
VardaValar1: They could have used the actual elessar stone!
VardaValar1: It would have been green though
Eonwe Valar: Give it 20 years, and maybe someone will make a better version. Or they'll butcher it worse to push a personal agenda of some sort.
VardaValar1: ugh
VardaValar1: I'm wondering how The Hobbit is going to turn out with totally different people making it.
twosurlydwarves: I'm worried that they will focus on the FX for Smaug and forget the rest.
Eonwe Valar: Depends on how you want to see the glass at this point: half-empty, or half-full.
Eonwe Valar: Don't think they've started filming yet.
Eonwe Valar: Then again I haven't kept as close a watch on it.
FinduilasV: something only time will tell
ArPharazonV: they have quite high expectations to live up to
ArPharazonV: I just wonder if that'll make a difference, though
VardaValar1: They will want to bring in a lot of the same actors, maybe workers
VardaValar1: Suppose New Zealand will get to be the background again?
twosurlydwarves: They might get the rights to use Hobbitton again
twosurlydwarves: Which would be cool.
ArPharazonV: perhaps Rivendell too
FinduilasV: I guess they will need those if they want any continuity
FinduilasV: or pretinuity rathere ;_)
twosurlydwarves: Problem with using Hobbitton is that there are people living there now.
ArPharazonV: give them hairy feet, and let's roll! ;-)
VardaValar1: Mabye they could find a hotel or be disguised. : )
FinduilasV: Is the preorder date for europe out yet, Phara?
ArPharazonV: no idea, I don't pay much attention to LotRO
ArPharazonV: I've had my share of Tolkien-games with Battle for Middle-earth, maps for Warcraft 3, and a variety of single-player games
ArPharazonV: I'll stick to Warcraft for my MMO :-)
VardaValar1: I'll be in both, as I am now
ArPharazonV: I enjoy speculation, sure, but I'm not sure if I'd agree with all the tiny details they must have inserted into LotRO to fill it up, and will probably consider it canon
ArPharazonV: I don't mind Blizzard changing their own story for their own line of games, but I'm not sure I'd appreciate the same with Tolkien's lore
ArPharazonV: who knows what stuff will be new in the game and people will take for granted when discussion Tolkien, like the movies have done?
VardaValar1: They are much better than Blizzard about keeping to the lore so far, and we have a bunch of us keeping an eye on it. They are very responsive.
ArPharazonV: *discussing
VardaValar1: Not nearly so bad as the movies!
VardaValar1: Far far better
ArPharazonV: but also far far more, if they want to fill up a MMO
twosurlydwarves: From what I've read, they are much more respectful of the Professor and his work than PJ ever was.
VardaValar1: They are indeed
ArPharazonV: I'm sure they are, but there are a lot more holes to fill that wouldn't oppose Tolkien as such
VardaValar1: Non disclosure agrrement is a problem, but I promise it's much closer!
ArPharazonV: I'm not worried about what they'd change, I'm worried about what they'll add
VardaValar1: maybe you should try the free beta. I understand your worries
ArPharazonV: and how that will affect the future in discussing Tolkien, especially when we get members who are new to Tolkien with the game
ArPharazonV: they'll take things for canon that have nothing to do with the books whatsoever
ArPharazonV: of course, that's no reason in itself for me to avoid playing the game, because I can no doubt keep it seperated, having been a fan of Tolkien long before the game...
VardaValar1: As the movies did, the game is bringing more people to read the books who would not have.
ArPharazonV: but I still worry it would change my perception of Tolkien
GwaihirValar: I'm sorry friends, I must be going to sleep... been a pleasure reading and have a good evening all
ArPharazonV: just as with the movie, you suddenly see images in your head when you read the books again, which used to be left to your own imagination
GwaihirValar has left the room.
twosurlydwarves: I can tell you that the movies didn't change my perception very much. I still see a very different Rivendell in my head when I read.
VardaValar1: So now you see long-eared elves in your head from WoW? : )
VardaValar1: same here
twosurlydwarves: Although I will say that do see Sean Astin when I read Sam, and Bakshi's Frodo.
VardaValar1: Sean Astin did make a perfect Sam
ArPharazonV: that's the kind of details I'm talking about :-)
VardaValar1: He was very close to my imagination, which was amazing
ArPharazonV: for some reason I always used to picture Sam with a swollen face, longer hair and a straw hat... not sure where that image came from, though I must have seen it somewhere
twosurlydwarves: Bakshi
ArPharazonV: nope, that's not it
twosurlydwarves: hrm
twosurlydwarves: Rankin-Bass?
twosurlydwarves: Where there's a whip, there's a way!
VardaValar1: Ask any Orc. : )
ArPharazonV: that's not him either
ArPharazonV: I'm really not sure where it came from
ArPharazonV: maybe just a product of various lines of reasoning within my subconscious....
ArPharazonV: maybe if I was any good at drawing, I'd give it a shot
ArPharazonV: watching a gallery of frames from Rankin-Bass's RotK now... that's an interesting Gollum
ArPharazonV: looks a bit like a cross between a lizard and a frog
ArPharazonV: the green isn't helping either ;-)
VardaValar1: Book says Gollum is black
twosurlydwarves: And the elves in the Rankin-Bass Hobbit
ArPharazonV: look at and tell me you can't see my line of thought ;-)
twosurlydwarves: He looks liess froglike that ne did in their Hobbit
FinduilasV: oh dear
FinduilasV: /me bursts out laughing
VardaValar1: I'm putting that on my screensaver. hehe
ArPharazonV: looking at the Hobbit-gallery now... I just know those dwarves are going to give me nightmares
ArPharazonV: those eyes...
VardaValar1: Sweet expressions. : )
FinduilasV: somehow cute
FinduilasV: but also funnt
FinduilasV: funny
ArPharazonV: how about Thranduil?
ArPharazonV: looks a bit... skinny!
VardaValar1: Should be goblin-king
Star of Phaet: those dwarves are CREEPY
VardaValar1: They got the yellow hair at least
twosurlydwarves: Didn't Thranduil have some sort of thick German accent in that, too?
ArPharazonV: are goblins...
VardaValar1: leaves and berrys for the crown, good
LaurealasseHelka has left the room.
ArPharazonV: and the three trolls look like big monkeys!
ArPharazonV: if they just had a pose with one holding his hands over his eyes, one holding his hands on his ears, and one a hand over his mouth, it would be perfect
twosurlydwarves: LOL
LouieKisKowsKi has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome to the Valar Guild, Beorn-(V)!
VardaValar1: He just passed his test. : )
VardaValar1: Aiya Elros!
ArPharazonV: Congratulations!
twosurlydwarves: And quite a workout it was - lol
VardaValar1: He did very well!
VardaValar1: Now go eat that well-deserved dinner!
twosurlydwarves: I'll see you guys later! /wave
twosurlydwarves has left the room.

Eonwe Valar: Btw, here's a free piece of music advice. Don't bother with a heavy metal band calling itself "Amon Amarth." It's generic heavy metal: screaming into the mic, can't make out the words, etc.
VardaValar1: Hehe. Bilbo has one of their Tee-shirts.
Eonwe Valar: Blind Guardian is far superior in my opinion. Then again, I like to understand what people are saying :}
VardaValar1: The very notion! oh, me too.
VardaValar1: Luckily there are a great many tastes.
VardaValar1: Bilbo understands singing that I can't make out at all.
Eonwe Valar: And I like some variation in the music as well. Seriously, there is little difference between songs for Amon Amarth, or for any generic heavy metal band I've heard, for that matter.
FinduilasV: /me stomps her foot to pipes and fiddles
FinduilasV: Not to mention that i do like rocky stuff :D
Eonwe Valar: voices impress me, throat noises do not.
FinduilasV: heavy guitars and good drumming, but it has to be melodious and i do have to understand that there are words
FinduilasV: I agree Eonwe
FinduilasV: The old school ..Deep Purple , Uriah Heep .. and that
VardaValar1: Metallica
Eonwe Valar: I think there was another one with a Tolkien-related name I'd warn against, but don't remember it at the moment.
FinduilasV: I love Queen and Metallica heeh
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I actually like some of Metallica's songs.
VardaValar1: They didn't name it after Tolkien. Amon Amarth was for something Norse
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien-sounding then.
VardaValar1: Aye : )
Eonwe Valar: Or maybe the other one was Norse-related.
Eonwe Valar: Either way, I wasn't impressed :}
VardaValar1: Thanks for a good meeting, folks. :-)
VardaValar1: See you in games, in mail, and in AIM
FinduilasV: aye it was nice but i guess it is time for bed L)
VardaValar1: I need to be in AIM more to talk with some of the folks who are about to be lost
VardaValar1: They are online in AIM often but I can't get a response
VardaValar1: Namarie for now!
FinduilasV: Namarie !
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
FinduilasV: I shall see you in 'woW P:hara
ArPharazonV: You sure will!
FinduilasV: tomorrow :D
FinduilasV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Looks like I need to go as well. Other internet ventures not running so well with this up.
VardaValar1 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Take care all, goodn night, sleep well, and have fun.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Srekal86 has left the room.
Sarujil has left the room.
MrMonkey2002Blah has left the room.