Valar Guild

December 23, 2007 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, and Varda

Attending: (7)
    ArathornValar, ArPharazonV, Elwing V, Eonwe Valar (presiding), GilraenV, GwaihirValar, VardaValar1

Meeting begins
Web: reports by Eonwe
    Search program glitches being attended to, improved version in progress.
    Art this week
    Stories this week
    WoW servers:
       Lothar: report by Eonwe
       Uldaman: report by Elwing
       Argent Dawn: report by Ar-Pharazon
    LotRO, Landroval server: report by Arathorn
    Battle for Middle-earth 2: played by Eonwe
    Upcoming Hobbit and LotR prequel movies, with Peter Jackson and Fran Walsh as executive producers.
    Forum text RP in the LotRO section under "Scouting Ahead"

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
GilraenV has entered the room.
ArathornValar: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Hey all
GilraenV: Aiya folks
Eonwe Valar: Give me a sec, we'll try to make this a quick meeting.
ArathornValar: ok bye! :-P
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArathornValar: *now thats quick*
Eonwe Valar: I'll try to keep the Lothar report short, since we do have one tonight and I haven't typed it up for the Forum yet.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, let's begin.

Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: Merry Christmas to all of you! :}
ArathornValar: MC!
ArPharazonV: Molten Christmas to you too!
ArPharazonV: hmm... that's not right
Eonwe Valar: I hope you all get to spend yours with family and loved ones, but if not, know that we all still have the best wishes for you :}
Eonwe Valar: It's "Merry," Phar,... You know, like the Hobbit? :}
Eonwe Valar: That was all I had for member news, so unless you all have more,.. :}
ArPharazonV: ahh, right, that's it!
ArPharazonV: and a Pippin New Year, then?
Eonwe Valar: hehe

Eonwe Valar: Ok, on to Web News:
ArPharazonV: oh, btw
Eonwe Valar: I'd hoped to have the Valar Guild Search Program version 2.0 ready by Christmas, but there's still things to work out with it and apparently some problems I didn't even know about in the first iteration.
ArPharazonV: I won't be here next week, spending the days around New Year's in Belgium with people from my WoW community
Eonwe Valar: Ah, well be safe and have fun, and Happy New year then :}
ArPharazonV: thanks! You all too
Eonwe Valar: I'm still shotting for having it working by Christmas, just not so sure it'll be done by then now :}
Eonwe Valar: *shotting = shooting
Eonwe Valar: It = VGSPv2.0 :}
Eonwe Valar: On with other Web News:
Eonwe Valar: We have new Art by DeepGrover-(TV)
Eonwe Valar: "Cave Troll"
Eonwe Valar: and apparently 2 drabble stories from Jay of Lasgalen with the same name. [Note: one drabble, one short story expanded from the original drabble of the same name.]
Eonwe Valar: "Far from Home."

Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: Lothar:
Eonwe Valar: We were going to try to help Eowyn along with her Warlock's epic mount quest, but she wasn't quite ready for it. Instead, we went into Dire Maul North and became the new rulers of the Ogres :}
Eonwe Valar: She got to 60, but had some troubles getting the questgiver to talk to her. We'll get her her Warlock epic mount quest done though :}
Eonwe Valar: We then cleared around the pylons in Dire Maul West, 2 of our group having to go after the first pylon (It was getting late).
Eonwe Valar: Eowyn, Bilbo, and I cleared out the rest of the pylons, then killed Immol-Thar and the Prince.
Eonwe Valar: After that we called it quits :}
Eonwe Valar: Oh, you might want a list of peopel who were there,... :}
Eonwe Valar: Myself (of course :}), Fangorn at first, later replaced by Bilbo, Eowyn, Galdor, and Alyssandra, a friend of Bilbo's.
Elwing V has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Elwing :}
Elwing V: Heya all :-)
Eonwe Valar: We were just finishing up the Lothar quest questing report. Do you happen to have anything for Uldaman this week?
Elwing V: I was on short periods Wed- Fri but did not see any other on...
Eonwe Valar: Ok :} Get anything done yourself? :}
Elwing V: however, I'm told I was searched for on Fri night and missed that so I might have had some problems that kept me from noticing others on
Eonwe Valar: Fangorn did pop in for a bit to see if you were there.
Elwing V: I got several quests done for my 2 higher level characters on Uldaman :-)
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
Eonwe Valar: Any reports from Argent Dawn?
ArPharazonV: oh, yes
ArathornValar: I popped onto Lothar on Friday to see if you needed a hand, btu everyone was afk :-P
ArathornValar: er *but
Eonwe Valar: Sorry, Arathorn. I know I went afk for several minutes a couple of times.
ArathornValar: You had enough people so thats fine.. I was just there in case ;-)
ArPharazonV: a few days ago my rogue Caldros and Arien's mage.. Arrien, I think, decided to venture into the Deadmines
Eonwe Valar: I did see you at one point and said heya though :}
ArPharazonV: think it was Thursday or Friday
ArathornValar: must have missed ti :-P
Eonwe Valar: Pardon Phar, please continue if there's more to tell :}
ArPharazonV: we had some trouble at first, getting a group together, and people kept disconnecting/leaving, so we had to replace them, and had several attempts before needing to reset
ArPharazonV: but at the end we had a good balanced group together, and marched in
ArPharazonV: we slew the mighty ogre guard, and took down the goblin shredder in the underground lumber mill, taking an engineering device from it for a gnome in Stormwind
Elwing V: huzzah!
ArPharazonV: we also took down a goblin leader in the great forge, and marched on to VanCleef's ship, defeating his first mate, Mr. Smite
ArPharazonV: after that, our tank, a beardruid, had to go, but a lvl 70 in my guild could be persuaded to help us out, and joined us at the ship a few minutes later
ArPharazonV: and we captured the ship, defeating its leaders, including the dreaded VanCleef, leader of the Defias Brotherhood
ArPharazonV: but unfortunately I forgot to get my questitem, so after we'd left the instance the lvl 70 and I went on another fast run to kill VanCleef once more... lootwise, that second run was much more beneficial to me,
ArPharazonV: but unfortunately Arien was no longer with us at that point
ArPharazonV: throughout the first run, however, we 2 were the only consistent members of the expedition, and we good times complaining to each other in whispers about the apparent low skills of our companions ;-)
Eonwe Valar: heh, shouyld be trying to help them become better, tsk :}
ArPharazonV: hey, some people just won't listen, not our fault!
Eonwe Valar: True :}
ArPharazonV: but we got through eventually, so it all worked out in the end
Eonwe Valar: I've "heard rumours" of the Defias appearing in new areas, places we thought they couldn't reach before, not to make your victory seem less :}
Elwing V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: a lot of experience was gained too, I can't say for sure about Arien, but my rogue started at lvl 23, got lvl 24 in the first run, and made it to lvl 25 delivering all the quests
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
Elwing V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: well, we took out their leader, so that was a good victory, though it may not have lasted long
Elwing V: sorry hit wrong key :}
Eonwe Valar: Happens :}
ArPharazonV: in fact, I believe people were already planning to go in again after we left, though I do not think we left many Defias alive for them!
Eonwe Valar: hehe :}
ArPharazonV: but the thieves seem to multiply like flies, so who knows
ArPharazonV: they were thick as thieves, even!
Eonwe Valar: hah :}
ArPharazonV: and thus concludes my report, if anything else happened this past week I am not aware of it
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: I don't have a LotRO report, but I'm sure we had activity over there as well :}
Eonwe Valar: Arathorn, don't suppose you know of anythign that went on over there?
Eonwe Valar: Ok, then I guess we only have 2 more pieces of business and can attempt trivia shortly afterwards if anyone is up for it :}
Eonwe Valar: Anyone play anything besides LotRO and WoW? :}
Eonwe Valar: I played BFME2 and its expansion :}
ArPharazonV: not really, perhaps some single-player games, but I spent most of this week on WoW
Eonwe Valar: Ok, guess we'll move on to Tolkien then, of which there is only one business item before trivia if we have enough actively viewing the chat :}
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
ArathornValar: Well
ArathornValar: oops sorry .late in my yakking
ArathornValar: I have a short report from this morning on Lotro
Eonwe Valar: Did you have something from LotRO?
Eonwe Valar: ok
ArathornValar: Melkor, Oro, Ulmo, Orom's brother and I did a run through Fornost in North Downs for a few hours..
ArathornValar: the 5 of us ranging from 36 to 44 did a good 7 quests up there and even part of a quest instance
ArathornValar: Orome had to leave around 1PM but the 4 of us ventured furtehr in and killed all the 30 goblins and 20 trolls we needed
ArathornValar: we now have another 7-8 quests or so to still go after there, and shall setup anotehr run soon
Eonwe Valar: Cool :}
Eonwe Valar: Glad to hear you all are having fun :}
ArathornValar: It was esp fun because none of us had actually been there (not even people with 50s).. I had found an encampment hidden away that gave about 10 quests that no one had come across before =)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Elwing V: 50 to 4 and you got them all - sounds like a kung-fu movie :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArathornValar: Soo.. I went from 38.5 to almost 39 with those qs we finished ;-)
ArathornValar: Thats it for this morning
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Arathorn :}

Eonwe Valar: Now we take you back to your regularly scheduled Tolkien :}
Eonwe Valar: Apparently it has finally been decided that Fran Walsh and Peter Jackson will be producing the Hobbit movie, as well as a prequel to LotR.
ArathornValar: woot!
Eonwe Valar: For those who didn't know, there have been some issues between Jackson and New Line, which seem to have been resolved.
Elwing V: I had read about PJ being back "in" (yay!) for the Hobbit
Eonwe Valar: There's a list of links for this particular new topic on the News page, so I would just point you there if you'd like to see them.
Elwing V: He thinks that will be a 2 movie movie, so no telling how many it will take for "preLotR" one
Elwing V: I hope I am around long enough to see them all!
Eonwe Valar: I'd heard about the possible 2-movie Hobbit. I just hope it stays true enough to the books.
Eonwe Valar: er, the book.
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I'm a bit curious if there's even enough in the Hobbit to be stretched over two movies.
ArathornValar: Hmm prequel I didnt hear about..
Eonwe Valar: I'm curious what they plan on using as a prequel.
Eonwe Valar: And how long it wil take them to get to the 7-movie Silmarillion :}
ArPharazonV: I thought the Hobbit was just one movie, and the prequel thingy was one movie?
ArPharazonV: together 2 movies?
Eonwe Valar: I point everyone to the links on the news page :} I haven't read them yet myself.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: Heya Varda :}
Elwing V: Welcome!
VardaValar1: Just made it home, have to unload groceries
VardaValar1: Thanks
Eonwe Valar: We're in Tolkien, just mentioned the Hobbit and prequel movies :}
VardaValar1: Elwing, heya :-)
VardaValar1: Yay!
ArPharazonV: Aiya Varda
VardaValar1: Wanted to hear everyone's comments on that one!
VardaValar1: My comment: Yay!!!
VardaValar1: afk will scroll
Eonwe Valar: I'm glad they're keeping the Peter Jackson. I recall hearing a rumour they were considering someone I wouldn't want touching the LotR movies. Don't remember who it was though, heh.
Eonwe Valar: er, the Hobbit movie, bah.
Elwing V: on Hobbit movie, if he makes just one that's nearly 4 hours, one may be enough; if he cuts back to more standard ~2 hours, it could be 2 parts
Eonwe Valar: The old Rankin-Bass Cartoon managed to get it to 80 minutes and I think hit most of the important stuff.
Eonwe Valar: That kind of why I'm curious how they'd manage to stretch it into two movies.
Eonwe Valar: Sure, the Battle of Five Armies would probably make a good 20 minutes in and of itself.
Elwing V: I'll be very interested to see how they interpret/present Mirkwood
ArPharazonV: I'm curious about the 13 dwarves :-)
ArPharazonV: and I bet that everyone will say they stole Beorn from Warcraft...
Eonwe Valar: heh, sadly a possibility, Phar.
Eonwe Valar: Think John Rys-Davies will get to play Gloin like he played Gimli? :}
Elwing V: Gandalf should be the same...
Eonwe Valar: I'm curious who will be Thorin.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Gandalf and BIlbo both should be the same.
Elwing V: the same person who "played" Gollum should do that again too
ArathornValar: yeah the dwarves will be interesting
Eonwe Valar: Elrond as well, and anyone else featured in LotR that will appear in the Hobbit.
ArathornValar: Smaug tho .. woohoo
ArathornValar: the voice of Smaug? ... hmmmm
Eonwe Valar: Ooh, I wonder who's going to voice Smaug. That's a good point.
Eonwe Valar: I thought the old Rankin-Bass voice of Smaug was pretty good.
ArathornValar: Biblo would be tough since he was so much younger.. not that you can tell so much on a hobbit :-P
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: hmm... wasn't the point that he hadn't aged at all? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Well, Bilbi was in his 50s when he went adventuring wasn't he?
Eonwe Valar: *Bilbo, bah.
ArathornValar: yeah me too.. he had a great voice.. good actor
ArathornValar: the actor aint 50 :-P
Eonwe Valar: Eh, makeup can fix that :}
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, reading the comments on the News page about these movies, apparently it is 1 movie for Hobbit, one for Prequel.
Elwing V: Im guessing they'll go back to New Zealand; should even be able to use some of the "props" which were left as tourist attractions - Hobbiton for instance (I think)
ArathornValar: hmm you can make people look older but trying to make them look younger rarely works.. case in point Jimmy Stewart as a young Charles Lindbergh in Spirit of St Louis .. didnt ring true
ArPharazonV: but the point of the Ring was that Bilbo hadn't seemingly aged a day since picking up the Ring, up to the day he'd left it to Frodo
ArathornValar: hmm 1 for prequel wont be enough
ArPharazonV: so there's no need to change his appearance from the lotr-movies, right?
Eonwe Valar: Probably not.
Elwing V: except in real life it's been...several years since the first of the trilogy
Eonwe Valar: Though they did have a scene in the movies with him in *sings* Gollum's cave of gloom*endsong*
Eonwe Valar: Sorry, I just couldn't resist :}
ArathornValar: hmm thats true
ArathornValar: but the actor is getting older too
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
ArathornValar: drawing a blacnk on his name even though I know him well
Eonwe Valar: Ian Holm
ArathornValar: right
ArathornValar: Sven Glurbsminhurmer
ArathornValar: :-P
Eonwe Valar: heh
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, the press release on the Hobbit Blog website is putting forth the second movie as a "Hobbit sequel," not a "LotR prequel,"
ArathornValar: sequel? sequel to what?
Eonwe Valar: "Hobbit sequel" :}
ArathornValar: that makes no sense
ArPharazonV: it doesn't matter, really
ArathornValar: theres no prequel to the hobbit.. how can it be a sequel
ArPharazonV: a prequel to Lotr is the same as a sequel to the Hobbit
Eonwe Valar: Aye, still, the choice of words is interesting.
ArPharazonV: it just means it's a movie about a transition period between the events of the Hobbit and Lotr
Eonwe Valar: Technically, the Hobbit is the LotR prequel :}
ArPharazonV: but it's being made/published together with the Hobbit, so it's most logical to associate it with that, as a Hobbit sequel
ArathornValar: Hobbti sequel still makes no sense literally
ArPharazonV: makes perfect sense to me
Elwing V: as in what happened between when Bilbo got the ring and returned to Shire and when Gandalf came to visit for his eleventyhundredth (or whatever) birthday :-)
ArathornValar: nope
ArathornValar: I disagree
ArPharazonV: exactly, Elwing
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that time period will have to be the period covered.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Elwing V: wb :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
Eonwe Valar: "Hobbit sequel" means "Sequel to the Hobbit," Arathorn. If I'm reading what you're typing right, I think that's where you got stuck.
Eonwe Valar: If not, then pardon :}
VardaValar1: They figured Ian Holm could be "youthened" and look right, but it would be horribly uncomfortable.
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
Eonwe Valar: And welcome back Varda :}
VardaValar1: John Rhys-Davies said he would never play another dwarf after what that makeup did to his face for so long, very painful.
Eonwe Valar: Botox? :}
VardaValar1: But maybe a non-dwarf? : )
Elwing V: someone in Lake town maybe
Eonwe Valar: Beorn perhaps, hehe
VardaValar1: Ian McKellan, Eru willing, will be in it and has been hoping to for a long time.
Elwing V: even hairier than dwarf!
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: I can picture him as the Master of Lake-town...
VardaValar1: Aye, he could do that very well. : )
Eonwe Valar: Peter Jackson could be the master of Laketown :}
VardaValar1: lol - aye
Elwing V: hee
ArathornValar: How can there be a sequel to teh Hobbit if they havent made the Hobbit movie?
ArPharazonV: Peter Jackson can be Smaug :-)
Eonwe Valar: John Rys-Davies has an air about him that says to me he neds a better part than that :}
VardaValar1: There are 60 years between the Hobbit and LotR
ArPharazonV: they make it at the same time or just after, Arathorn
ArathornValar: Are you saying they are going to start the movie after he gets back from Misty Mountains?
ArPharazonV: and they know what they have to cover
VardaValar1: They want to show the "fall" of Dol Guldur.
ArPharazonV: it's like.. they made Two Towers and Return of the King at around the same time, even though one was a "sequel" of the other
Elwing V: in theory so far (they PLAN to make Hobbit movie and so any connected movie following would be it's sequel)
Eonwe Valar: Aye, they'll shoot both movies at approximately the same time, like they did with the LotR movies.
VardaValar1: Show some of that stuff Gandalf was doing while Bilbo and the Dwarves had the spotlight.
ArPharazonV: so they'll probably make the script of both movies simultaneously, so they know where to cut between them
Eonwe Valar: Then they'll focus on getting the first movie through editting and post-production, then work on the second movie.
VardaValar1: PJ would have been willing to direct, but since he thought he was cut out of it, after The Lovely Bones, he signed on to make another trilogy.
ArathornValar: Ahh so they are making the hobbit and a 2nd mocie after the hobbit
ArathornValar: er movie
ArPharazonV: yes
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
Eonwe Valar: We have an accord :}
VardaValar1: hehe
ArathornValar: I thought you saif they were calling teh Hobbit a "Hobbit Sequel" .. made no sense
ArPharazonV: you thought they were making the sequel, but not the Hobbit?
ArathornValar: exactly
ArathornValar: which sounded inane
VardaValar1: Since Tolkien hadn't thought up the Fellowship characters, they will be inserted. Retrofit.
Elwing V: that would be strange
Eonwe Valar: Oh, pardon, I was trying to say at least that they were calling the second movie, the "LotR Prequel" a "Hobbit Sequel,"
ArathornValar: "Forget about teh Hobbit.. we'll make a movie about Sam gardening and Bilbo doing his dry cleaning.. just before the birthday party!"
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: The only Fellowship characters that would've been alive at that point would be Aragorn and maybe Legolas, perhaps Gimli.
ArathornValar: AHHH!
ArathornValar: NOW that makes sense Eonwe
VardaValar1: Gimli most probably would have been alive.
VardaValar1: Legolas would have been old enough to be a captain at the Battle of Five Armies.
Eonwe Valar: I suppose Legolas would've had to be alie actually, given it takes 50-100 years for an Elf to be fully grown...
VardaValar1: Or he could play the Captain of the Guard... ;-)
Eonwe Valar: *alie =a alive
ArPharazonV: Arwen should be around too
ArPharazonV: or perhaps she was in Lorien at the time?
ArathornValar: Lotro as a Hobbit Sequel at least makes sense.. even though not necessarily accurate
Elwing V: lots of possibilities with this :-)
VardaValar1: Legolas was an absolute minimum of 500 during the War of the Ring.
Eonwe Valar: I see the Hobbit advertised a sa prequel to LotR on its book cover alot.
ArathornValar: Seems Tolkien wrote the Hobbit as a story for his son .. I imagine he had already thought up ideas about LOTRO before even that
Eonwe Valar: *as a
VardaValar1: Arwen was not around Aragorn until he was 20, I suspect Galadriel's hand in that.
VardaValar1: Aragorn was 10 when Bilbo arrived in Rivendell.
Elwing V: that would make a fun scene
Eonwe Valar: I'm betting Viggo Mortessen won't be portraying Aragorn in the Hobbit movie :} Just a hunch, now :}
VardaValar1: hehe
Elwing V: they should be about the same size :-)
VardaValar1: But he could portray a Lakeman, or another Dunedan.
Eonwe Valar: Aye
ArathornValar: EitherGgaladriels or child welfare <chuckle> .. how old was Arwen at that point :-P
Eonwe Valar: Pushing a thousand at least.
ArPharazonV: maybe that kid they featured as Eldarion could play Aragorn
VardaValar1: Around 3000 at the time of the War of the Ring.
VardaValar1: Phar, good idea.
ArathornValar: See age doesnt matter :}
Eonwe Valar: If memory serves, she was born in the first millenium of the Third Age like her brothers.
ArathornValar: Aragorn wouldnt be in the hobbit anyway.. are you talking about the other movie?
Elwing V: age not much matter for energizer bunny, they keep going and going....:-)
ArPharazonV: no, Aragorn would be alive in Rivendell in the events of the Hobbit, I think
ArathornValar: but there would be no place for teh character in the movie I mean
ArPharazonV: young, but alive
ArathornValar: he's not in the book
Eonwe Valar: As a passing mention.
ArPharazonV: well, that's PJ... he could put in a few cameos of people who we know are around by then
VardaValar1: Aragorn could be in the Hobbit as a 10-year old talking to Bilbo, retro-fitted into the story.
Eonwe Valar: There's plenty in LotR movies that weren't in the book :}
ArPharazonV: Elves at Helm's Deep *cough*
VardaValar1: hehe
ArathornValar: Don't think it would fit in teh Hobbit though.. Aragorn plays no part in the storyline
VardaValar1: 2nd Age 130 twins born. 2nd Age 241 Arwen born.
ArPharazonV: maybe Viggo could play Bard
Eonwe Valar: In my opinion it would/should be at most a mention.
VardaValar1: It would be more of a sweet cameo and a crowd pleaser.
ArathornValar: In what context tho..
VardaValar1: He could greet Bilbo at Rivendell.
Eonwe Valar: "Aragorn! Leave that halfling alone!"
ArathornValar: Bilbo knows nothing of Aragorn.. nother do teh dwarves
Eonwe Valar: Or rather, "Estel! Leave that Halfling alone!"
VardaValar1: Right. Aragorn didn't know he was Aragorn, thought his name was Estel.
ArPharazonV: aww, but he's so cute...
Elwing V: yeah...
ArathornValar: and Alfred Hitchcock could play Aragorn? :-P
VardaValar1: hehe
ArathornValar: I'd prefer there wasnt any mention.. he has nothing to do with the Hobbit story
ArPharazonV: I wonder if Saruman will show up, in the whole Dol Guldur story
Eonwe Valar: I'm just saying how it's possible to get Aragorn in there without hurting the story. Not necessarily saying it's a good or bad thing to have it at this point.
ArPharazonV: he was, after all, still part of the White Council
VardaValar1: If JRRT had known he was going to be putting Aragorn in the next book, he might very well have done such a foreshadowing. True of other characters too. But he didn't know.
ArathornValar: Even Sauron isnt really mentioned in the Hobbit
ArathornValar: that I can remember
Eonwe Valar: I would've preferred Glorfindel to come out and help the Hobbits after Weathertop, but I didn't get it and then they poured salt in the wound.... :/
VardaValar1: Sauron is mentioned in the Hobbit as the Necromancer.
Eonwe Valar: The Necromancer was Sauron
VardaValar1: At first no one knew he was Sauron.
ArathornValar: yeah I suppose.. but there isnt really anything more than that
Eonwe Valar: He's not revealed as Sauron of course, so that shouldn't happen in the movies.
Elwing V: pesky ringwraiths still around weren't they?
Eonwe Valar: Nazgul I don't think were abroad yet.
VardaValar1: Gandalf had to leave Bilbo and the Dwarves to deal with Dol Guldur and the Necromancer.
ArathornValar: hey.. maybe Alfred Hitchcock could be superimposed as Sauron missing a bus .. form one of his movies ..har! . *wipes silly tear from eye..*
ArathornValar: *from
VardaValar1: The ringwraiths used Dol Guldur and were preparing Mordor for Sauron's use.
VardaValar1: When Sauron was "driven out", he just went to his new digs.
VardaValar1: Lots of story material there.
ArathornValar: I dont remember the wraiths being mentioned in teh hobbit..?
Eonwe Valar: Neither do I, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see them in a clip from Dol Guldor, should we get scenes at the White Council.
VardaValar1: Do you remember the Necromancer? The White Council?
VardaValar1: I want to see the Mirkwood spiders. : )
Elwing V: I want to see Thranduil :-)
ArathornValar: they should be playing conasta and one shoud be wearing a bowler hat and smoking a cheap cigar.. no wait thats more Abbot and Costello :-\
VardaValar1: I second that motion, Elwing.
ArPharazonV: you wouldn't remember the wraiths in the Hobbit, they were only thought of when Tolkien made Lotr... I believe the first Dark Rider in the woods of the Shire was originally Gandalf :-)
ArathornValar: er canasta
Eonwe Valar: White Council scenes may be included, and dealing with Dol Guldor, to stretch out the movie and also to hint at the deeper events going on, giving the Hobbit movie a generally more serious tone.
ArathornValar: The spiders talked in teh book didnt they?
VardaValar1: They could barely mention that stuff as Tolkien did, then go into it in more depth in the in between.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, the spiders did talk in the Hobbit.
VardaValar1: Aye, the spiders were intelligent, and understood Bilbo's insults.
Elwing V: yep, and didn't like being taunted
Elwing V: nyah, nyah, spiders!
ArathornValar: I wonder if theyll do much with Beorn or if theyll cut him like Tom
VardaValar1: The LotR was originally supposed to be the Hobbit sequel. : )
ArathornValar: I wonder why Shelob never talked?
Eonwe Valar: Now why didn't you Mirkwood Elves go around yelling "Attercop" at the Spiders when we fought them? :}
Eonwe Valar: sorry, RP interjection :}
VardaValar1: We don't need to talk to them, just shoot them. They say bad things back.
ArathornValar: heh
Elwing V: that's a hobbit insult - just what is "attercop" anyway? "}
VardaValar1: Shelob and Gollum apparently communicated. The orcs called him her sneak.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, good question on why we didn't hear Shelob talk. Maybe she didn't think she had to? Or she might've found it hard to sneak up on her targets if she did.
VardaValar1: Attercop is another word for spider.
ArathornValar: well I dont mean she had to blather on and on on a cellphine but .. :-P
ArathornValar: er cellphone
Eonwe Valar: Well, you know spiders these days :}
ArathornValar: hmm why would that be an insult then?
VardaValar1: I don't think she was big on talking to food.
ArathornValar: yelling spider spider at a spider?
ArathornValar: why not? I had a lovely disussion with my Lasagne just this afternoon about Prouste..
VardaValar1: It's like with various ethnic groups: one word for them will be associated with something bad at sometime, although actually innocent by itself.
VardaValar1: Lasagne doesn't talk back, good stuff.
ArathornValar: er.. maybe yours doesn't =)
Eonwe Valar: I thought "Attercop" was more akin to "numbskull" or some such.
VardaValar1: My cereal might snap, crackle, and pop though.
ArathornValar: me too
ArathornValar: ha good one varda
VardaValar1: They sure took it like that, Eonwe.
ArathornValar: Did Shelob come from the brood that were in Mirkwood?
Eonwe Valar: No, they came from her.
Elwing V: she brooded them
ArathornValar: or did she come from anotehr line
VardaValar1: Shelob apparently was mom or grandma.
ArPharazonV: and they all came from Ungoliant, I believe
VardaValar1: Ancestor.
ArathornValar: Hmm.. gues pop was lunch? ..
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar.
VardaValar1: Probably, Arathorn. ; )
Eonwe Valar: Shelob was an actual daughter of Ungoliant if memory serves, maybe granddaughter.
ArathornValar: ahh right Ungoliant!
ArathornValar: forgot about him.. er her.. er .. it.
VardaValar1: Think it said of the brood of Ungoliant, which could mean daughter or descendant.
VardaValar1: Her. : )
ArathornValar: Where did Ungoliant initiate from again?
ArathornValar: Pure evil or..?
VardaValar1: That's a can of worms, Arathorn. : )
ArPharazonV: a can of spiders!
ArathornValar: she intiated from worms?? egads.. talk about messed up genetics! =P
VardaValar1: I suspect from the thought of Melkor, in the discord.
ArPharazonV: it was said she came from outside Arda, I think
Elwing V: all creepy, crawly things :}
VardaValar1: Sort of like the ents and eagles were of the thought of Yavanna and Manwe, respectively.
ArathornValar: Hmm.. probably Bakersfield.. east side.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Outside Arda could also mean she was a Maia that sort of followed Melkor, at least his discordant notions.
ArathornValar: Thats an interesting thought
VardaValar1: She was powerful enough to be a Maia.
Eonwe Valar: Here, I'll quote this...
ArathornValar: A spindley legged maia .. yeeeech.. *shiver up spine*
Eonwe Valar: "There agelong she had dwelt, an evil thing in spider-form, even such as one of old had lived in the Land of the Elves in the West that is now under the Sea,...
Elwing V: even Melkor was afraid of her at one point
Eonwe Valar: such as Beren fought in the Mountains of Terror in Doriath, and so came to Luthien upon the green sward amid the hemlocks in the moonlight long ago.
ArathornValar: Hmm what was there before it flooded?
ArathornValar: maybe the spider hairs clogged the drain :-\
ArPharazonV: is this about Ungoliant or Shelob?
Eonwe Valar: How Shelob came there, flying from ruin, no tale tells, for out of the Dark Years few tales have come. Bull still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-Dur;
ArathornValar: Hmm
ArathornValar: What happened to Ungoliant again?
Eonwe Valar: and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow;
Elwing V: supposedly she ate herself
Eonwe Valar: for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness.
ArathornValar: ahh right
ArPharazonV: she bred in the Mountains of Terror, Arathorn, before moving on south
ArathornValar: Ahh Florida.. I get it..
ArPharazonV: and either she consumed herself, or in one version Earendil in one of his travels meets her and slays her
Eonwe Valar: Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offsprings, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Duath to the eastern hills,
Elwing V: after begetting a few wicked spiderlings
Eonwe Valar: to Dol Guldor and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world.
Eonwe Valar: "
ArathornValar: Im pretty sure there is a mini shelob in our back yard .. you should SEE the brood in the summer that own that area o.O
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe.
ArPharazonV: last child of Ungoliant... direct child then?
Eonwe Valar: I see plenty of Mirkwood spiders wjere I live. No need to go looking other places for them :}
Elwing V: get rubberbands and toothpicks - shoot them with mini arrows!
ArPharazonV: first generation?
VardaValar1: Sounds like it, Phar.
ArathornValar: Hmmm... theres no mention of any other spiders in Lotro .. what happened to all the mirkwood ones?
VardaValar1: They were probably still there, but the Fellowship didn't go through Mirkwood.
ArathornValar: true
Eonwe Valar: They're likely still there, but the Fellowship didn't pass through Mirkwood, so they weren't important enough to mention.
ArPharazonV: so we just fight them in the RP :-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
ArathornValar: heh I was just going to say that :-P
VardaValar1: Elrond sent out scouts to see which paths might be safe. Mirkwood would not have been, which was what made our rp as scouts for that area more fun.
Eonwe Valar: Oh, for anyone looking for that quote, its in the Chapter "Shelob's Lair" in Book 4, the second half of the Two Towers
VardaValar1: Thanks Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: MP.
VardaValar1: I think Ungoliant the ever-hungry finally consumed herself, if memory serves.
ArathornValar: How far have you gotten with it?
Eonwe Valar: We're back in Mirkwood.
VardaValar1: We went to Erebor and back into Mirkwood.
ArPharazonV: so where'd Haran get off to? :-)
VardaValar1: Like to jump back in? : )
Eonwe Valar: Interest seems to have dropped in my view. I'm thinking perhaps we want to take a break after we do the Rivendell chapter.
VardaValar1: I was interested but it began to look as if Eonwe and I would be writing it alone.
ArathornValar: Other than Ungoliant .. no spiders are mentioned in Silmarillion are there.
Eonwe Valar: None jumping to mind at the moment, Arathorn.
ArathornValar: I was thinking about it.. I have an iotch to write
ArPharazonV: well, her offspring were briefly mentioned
VardaValar1: None that affected the storyline of the silmarils.
ArathornValar: er itch even
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar.
ArPharazonV: I think Beren braved them coming down to Doriath
VardaValar1: That sounds right.
Eonwe Valar: Auros' character has been interesting for me anyway, and if we do take a break at the Rivendell chapter, I will likely expand upon his story in other ways.
VardaValar1: Maybe we can just get together and collaborate on it. But it is more fun with the surprises the others keep tossing in. : )
ArPharazonV: I've had my fun with my own little elements in the RP... but my initiative is nearly done now
ArPharazonV: the brother I inserted has 2 more appearances to make
ArPharazonV: I would like to follow the story after that, not make it, though I do have some ideas
Eonwe Valar: I kind of left my part of the story so that Calion could come in to lead the investigation if that was the direction you were going, Phar.
VardaValar1: You need to develop your main character, the one who had so much empathy with animals.
ArPharazonV: I know, and he will be more significant from here on
Eonwe Valar: I also wasn't quite sure where we all were, so I only spoke for myself sitting in less-than-exciting Council sessions.
VardaValar1: This is a good chance for him right now to be a lead character for the storyline, good time for it.
ArPharazonV: in fact, the only places Calaron will show up now is in direct confrontation with Calion, so he'll no longer be neglected anyway :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: My intention was that Thranduil was going to warn us about the rising of some dangerous shadow in the Angmar area that was apparently working with Dol Guldur, making the whole area extremely hazardous.
ArPharazonV: might be odd writing sequences with 2 interacting characters I myself write for, but it should be fun
VardaValar1: That's why he wanted Auros to drop in, very relevant to his mission.
Eonwe Valar: I've got ideas coming in the Rivendell chapter for Auros' motivations for going into Angmar as well.
VardaValar1: It's normal for authors to have to feel for many interacting characters. : )
VardaValar1: The Mirkwood elves would want to try to prevent this new threat from joining up with Dol Guldur any more strongly, cut the line between them.
VardaValar1: But they don't know it's the Witch-king himself.
ArPharazonV: the new threat?
VardaValar1: The Witch-king did base himself in Dol Guldur for a time, so he could very well be doing a lot of fun stuff.
ArPharazonV: still, at this point he would be unmounted and making his way back to Mordor, no?
Elwing V: fun for him, not the poor Elves :p
VardaValar1: Dol Guldur is an old threat, anything else showing up is "new".
VardaValar1: The Fellowship were in Rivendell for months.
Eonwe Valar: The Nazgul probably would still be on their way, aye.
Eonwe Valar: Everything in our RP is only taking a couple of weeks, despite us writing it over a couple of years :}
VardaValar1: So the ringwraiths will be returning in a bad mood, probably chewed out by Sauron.
Elwing V: were they ever in a "good" mood? :-)
VardaValar1: Of course their bad mood, all reeking, will be taken out on the few beings still surviving in the territory they were setting up in.
ArPharazonV: "Geez, you guys couldn't even bring back a small ring... what am I going to do with you... oh well, here's some flying mounts, go out and try again... but do not fail me once more!"
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Worse than usual? : )
VardaValar1: Here's an upgrade, no excuses!
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Elwing V: the quality of help I have to deal with (Sauron speaks)
Eonwe Valar: Epic flying mounts! :}
VardaValar1: As Sauron's power was growing, he could increase the ringwraiths' power.
ArPharazonV: "Trouble crossing water, eh? These flyers should have no problem with that"
Eonwe Valar: Sauron payed top dollar for those :}
VardaValar1: hehe
Elwing V: and done in by a "mere girl"
Elwing V: eventually
VardaValar1: Unless Legolas shoots it down when he's at the river.
ArPharazonV: womankind was his achilles' heel :-)
VardaValar1: Problem for a lot of guys.
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Phar, that actually sounds like something that might have been said.
VardaValar1: about the water problem.
ArPharazonV: well, it makes sense, doesn't it
VardaValar1: See how much we can come up with? PJ will surely come up with plenty more. : )
Eonwe Valar: doh, I just remembered I left tea brewing before the start of the meeting,..
VardaValar1: Run, Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: brb....
Elwing V: he'll have tea sludge
ArPharazonV: their first mounts were halted by water, so they needed something that could just go over it
VardaValar1: *reeking smokes from the kitchen*
VardaValar1: I completely agree, Pharazon.
ArPharazonV: just think, if they'd had their fel beasts from the beginning...
VardaValar1: oy
ArPharazonV: flying over the Shire, looking for Baggins
ArPharazonV: no problem with the ferry there!
VardaValar1: They missed him over the marsh, far fewer Hobbits to confuse them.
Elwing V: might have been a much shorter story
ArPharazonV: they could've just swooped em down from Weathertop and pick up any survivors
VardaValar1: He needed to keep from wearing it, must have been like trying to find a wide fog effect.
ArathornValar: ".. and the wraiths found the ring, and sauron won. the End" ..
ArathornValar: yeah not s good
ArathornValar: *as
VardaValar1: Short story by JRRT.
Elwing V: the "alternate" ending
ArPharazonV: poor Butterbur would have been scared to death by big flying beasts hovering over his inn
VardaValar1: nipping up the roast.
Elwing V: bet it would sober up the drunks pretty quick
Elwing V: "Im not touching this stuff again!"
ArPharazonV: dude, what's *in* this stuff?
VardaValar1: Sobriety reigns.
VardaValar1: Return of the Sobriety.
VardaValar1: I'm pulling up the rp, all your fault, Eonwe.
VardaValar1: All of us talking have written in the rp! In-teresting.
Elwing V: Hark! methinks I hear a dinner plate calling, and I must answer....!
Elwing V: Carry on well, and also Happy Hollidays!
Elwing V: Namarie :-)
VardaValar1: People do read it still
VardaValar1: Namarie!
Elwing V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: reminds me, I still have 2 posts to edit
ArPharazonV: retroactively, I guess
ArPharazonV: still need to shove an extra day in my last post, and change some details in one a bit earlier
Eonwe Valar: back
VardaValar1: Welcome back. Tea survive?
Eonwe Valar: A little heating up and it was fine, kinda like me in this cold weather :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I love reading your posts, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: Too bad we finished off the chocolate chip cookies my mom baked yesterday :}
VardaValar1: Make more!
ArPharazonV: I once forgot about my tea, saw it standing there, put it in the microwave to warm it up
ArPharazonV: ...forgot it again, came back the next day, to find it still standing in the microwave
Eonwe Valar: hehehe
VardaValar1: We need Arien. Frali may have some good comments on his first visit to Mirkwood.
Eonwe Valar: Glad to say I haven't done that :}
VardaValar1: Microwave is too busy here for that, someone would move it.
ArathornValar: O Varda I meant to tell you..
Eonwe Valar: I guess Menel dropped out of the RP. He hasn't posted since we went to Dale.
ArathornValar: SOme of your chars mailboxes are full
ArPharazonV: our first visit to DAle?
ArPharazonV: or the second?
Eonwe Valar: We only had one. You went back solo.
ArPharazonV: oh, right
VardaValar1: Oh, I have a gray horse in LotRO, which I call Hithceleb thanks to this rp. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: well, I didn't see him there either
VardaValar1: Mine, Arathorn?
ArathornValar: Ive been sneding stuff to Fainan .. not sre if you want me to cease and desist
ArathornValar: Yeah Timbridhil
ArathornValar: One of Merrys is full I think too
Eonwe Valar: I'm going to have to get my horse sometime soon too, and get my other chars up to the level so they can get out of the beginning instance.
ArathornValar: I keep getting mail back
VardaValar1: If the mailbox is full, don't send until I can clear. Hard to make it past the guys on the comps.
ArPharazonV: I do have a Nether Drake in WoW, after finishing the Netherwing exalted questline I got one for free, even though I don't use it... druid flight form is just so much handier
ArPharazonV: but no horse
ArathornValar: Ikll have to sell what I get then .. no room either :-P
VardaValar1: Timbridhil, aye. Fainan mostly finds metalsmith and tailor recipes, seems like, and dumps them on Tim.
Eonwe Valar: Speaking of Merry, I hope the metalsmithing lore and woodworking lore I asked for didn't get shipped back to him since I haven't been on Auros(too laggy to play every time I've tried)
ArPharazonV: I could call my Talbuk Quesselome...
VardaValar1: I'll try to clear
VardaValar1: Sure, why not? : )
ArPharazonV: pff, mailboxes that can get full... no such thing in WoW
VardaValar1: Yes they can, Phar. Mine have.
ArPharazonV: I've had over 100 items in the mailbox of an alt of mine
ArathornValar: I have anotehr q.. my mouse scroll button suddenly doesnt zoom me in/out in Lotro .. can't find a setting in options.. any ideas?
ArPharazonV: you only *see* the first 50, but the rest is there
VardaValar1: Try another mouse if you have one lying about?
Eonwe Valar: Since the multi-item mail came about, my mailboxes have been quite light.
Eonwe Valar: And since the Guild bank came about, Sulenar's bags have been quite empty, heh :}
ArPharazonV: true, that
ArPharazonV: when I gather up the 500g to open the third tab, I think I'll try to keep one for me and my alts... it's not like people don't have enough space with the first 2 tabs, and I figure, if I pay this one all by myself...
ArathornValar: hmm someone else in Lotro is having teh same problem
ArathornValar: scroll just stopped zooming
Eonwe Valar: Odd, Arathorn.
ArathornValar: indeed :-\
VardaValar1: Taurdirn, Fainan's brother, let the news out perhaps before Thranduil intended, when he said:
Eonwe Valar: I'd see if I'm affected, but I play on dial-up, so you'd be waiting to find out until New Year's :}
VardaValar1: The ancient evil rises as the Nazgul seem to have called for aid while they are abroad."
VardaValar1: Does the other person have the same kind of mouse?
Eonwe Valar: I had a few ideas for how to respond to that, one of them being "Pfft. I ain't afraid of no Nazgul!" :}
Eonwe Valar: Colloquially speaking :}
Eonwe Valar: Obviously I didn't choose that one :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Auros had an interesting comment too:
VardaValar1: What could the Nazgul have stirred before they were unhorsed?
VardaValar1: Auros says the woman was not wounded fatally. But we know Calaron thinks she is.
ArathornValar: no idea on teh mouse
ArathornValar: Who ya gonna call.. Wraith-Busters! =)
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, I wonder what day it should be in our story by now...
Eonwe Valar: I remember mentioning a "as long as we're in Rivendell by here." date, but all of a suddently got curious if we can even figure out the day by our story :}
Eonwe Valar: *sudden
VardaValar1: Our adventure in Mirkwood might take place without changing our travel date, as it occurs while we travel and we don't have to stay long in the Halls, as they are already overcrowded with refugees.
Eonwe Valar: We know when the scouts went out and when the last arrived. That's good enough anyway.
VardaValar1: Some Rivendell scouts that you were expecting to beat us back sound like they hit the hot spot and might not be returning or will return at extreme speed.
Eonwe Valar: Perhaps.....
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Or they would be allowed to go right through thinking everything is fine. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Or they stopped to check what the girls are like in Mirkwood.
Eonwe Valar: A bit far for that :}
VardaValar1: Their tough luck, then.
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I should probably bang the gavel and end the meeting officially :}
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*
ArPharazonV: *retracts a painful hand from the table*

VardaValar1: I'll see what I can do about Timbridhil's mail coming back, but Ararthorn, you can also send stuff to the other bank characters to tide you over, or pass stuff around guild members.
Eonwe Valar: Business up until the Tolkien part was done in about 45 min, not too bad.
VardaValar1: *heals hand*
VardaValar1: Excellent. : )
Eonwe Valar: You were here to see what happened with the Tolkien :}
VardaValar1: My main interest. : )
VardaValar1: I especially wanted to hear the movie reactions.
Eonwe Valar: I'll get a copy of the meeting minutes and attendance to you shortly.
VardaValar1: We had a lot of comments running around LotRO, started off by Ulmo/Niequi.
VardaValar1: Thank you
VardaValar1: I usually figure the attendance by searching for the word "entered".
VardaValar1: or by people talking.
ArPharazonV: Arathorn and I were first in the room, so when I send the transcript it's easy to check
VardaValar1: Amazing how many never say a word. I know some have been skipped on the credit.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Pharazon.
VardaValar1: Namarie and Merry Christmas!
Eonwe Valar: Take care and Merry Christmas :}
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year :-)
Eonwe Valar: Pippin,.. I mean Happy New Year :}
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: full circle :-)
Eonwe Valar: Yep :}
Eonwe Valar: Quick, before I make a Star Wars joke! :}
ArPharazonV: hm?
ArPharazonV: been too long since I saw those movies
Eonwe Valar: "The cirlce is now complete. When I left you I was but a learner. Now I am the master."
ArPharazonV: ah
Eonwe Valar: Darth Vader to Obiwan
ArPharazonV: would guess it's those 2, aye
Eonwe Valar: *cirlce = circle
ArPharazonV: well, saving and sending