Valar Guild

August 26, 2007 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, and Varda

Attending: (11)
    Members: Aerandir V/mordacil, Ancalagon-(V)/Sarujil, Arien-(V)/AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, Fladrifv, Gilraen-(V)/Star of Phaet, Glorfindel VG, VardaValar1 (presiding)
    Friends: Ecthelion-(V)-ex/suilenroc01, Hyarion/Srekal86

Meeting begins
    Classes starting soon for many members
    Rumil goes on vacation Sept 6
    Ar-Pharazon will be missing all or part of upcoming meetings due to upcoming school - early Monday morning class.
    Elwing's birthday party is going on today at Varda's house
    PHP and CSS for the Tolkien Site  
    Book Reviews
    Timeline project
    D&D Eberron tabletop
    StarCraft 2 news
    LotRO: report 1, report 2
       Argent Dawn server
       Lothar server
       Uldaman server
       General news:
          RSA, Menelvagor and Ar-Pharazon's old raiding guild group (non-Valar).
     Archlord (free game downloaded by Fladrif)
    Fladrifv: Was the sun there during the creation of the ents?
After-meeting: riddle discussion continued to rule, so we had no actual "after" meeting.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya Ancalagon :-)
Sarujil: aiya varda
VardaValar1: Author Ancalagon, I should say. : )
Sarujil: speaking of author, did you get my email about my author page?
VardaValar1: I was just trying to check my email just now when Netscape crashed. Old version. Not sure why. Trying again.
VardaValar1: Need a correction?
Sarujil: aye
VardaValar1: ah, got the email going
VardaValar1: Wrong one, eh? oboy
VardaValar1: Thanks for the repair!
VardaValar1: and now you need to add to the rp so that won't be wrong...
VardaValar1: ok, I'll fix it. ;-)
Sarujil: cool thanks :-)
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Thanks for taking the time to check it! Much needed
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar : )
Sarujil: aiya phar
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: in Dota with Fladrif, will be nearly done
VardaValar1: Hi to Flad too :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya all.
VardaValar1: Aiya hard-working Eonwe : )
Sarujil: heya eonwe
Eonwe Valar: *bow*
mordacil has entered the room.
mordacil: aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya... Aerendir I think?
Star of Phaet has entered the room.
Star of Phaet: Aiya all :-)
Eonwe Valar: Checked Members page, looks like I'm right :} Go me :}
VardaValar1: Aiya, making a quick correction
VardaValar1: Go Eonwe ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya Aerendir :}
mordacil: im also aerandir
Eonwe Valar: *Aerandir rather.
mordacil: yep
VardaValar1: Alien smiley, Gilraen? : )
Eonwe Valar: Heya Gilraen and to Gwaihir :}
Star of Phaet: I thought it was cute
Star of Phaet: thanks Eo. Gwai's asleep at the moment, but he sends greeting, and may be on later
Star of Phaet: *greetings
VardaValar1: It is : )
VardaValar1: Aiya to roosting Gwaihir
suilenroc01 has entered the room.
suilenroc01 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Ecthelion crashed through. : )
Fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif : )
Eonwe Valar: Looks like Ecthelion might want to get in contact about rejoining. Members page says he's an "ex".
VardaValar1: Invited everybody I could spot online. Some of you twice. ; )
VardaValar1: oops, my error then
VardaValar1: Did he contact you?
Eonwe Valar: Not that I recall.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: o, ok
VardaValar1: He was still on my list. Guess I'd better move him. Asking him now, no response yet
mordacil has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: WB Aerandir :}
Aerandir V: ay
Eonwe Valar: Afk for a sec, gotta start laundry going before meeting.
VardaValar1: Good plan : )
VardaValar1: Nice! Your "real" name, Aerandir! : )
Aerandir V: heh
Srekal86 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Srekal : )
Srekal86: 'lo
VardaValar1: We'll start when Eonwe makes it back from fighting the laundry monster. : )
Aerandir V has left the room.
VardaValar1: Aerandir is having connection problems
VardaValar1: *pokes Eonwe*
VardaValar1: This is the quietest Before-meeting in a long time.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, first load in.
VardaValar1: Yay! Away with thee, dirt!
Eonwe Valar: :}

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership: no new members this week, but lots of activity from the regulars.
VardaValar1: Elwing is at my house gaming in WoW with Fangorn and says hi
VardaValar1: I swiped Eowyn's WoW computer to be with you. ; )
VardaValar1: She says hi too. The things she does for the guild! ;-)
VardaValar1: Rumil is on vacation til Sept 6
ArPharazonV: Hi to all who say hi! *vanished back into dota*
VardaValar1: He said to put his Rumilden on your LotRO friend list to help him get reinvited after accidentally hitting the quit button. : )
VardaValar1: Any other member news, besides the pecuiliar vanishment of Phar?

VardaValar1: Web News:
Eonwe Valar: Tomorrow it's back to class with me.
VardaValar1: oh, thanks
Aerandir V has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: We are going to see a sudden drop in numbers in gaming as school begins, for some, and addition for others.
VardaValar1: Arwen says she is back at the dorm and having her comp fixed, hopes to have furniture for her new little apartment soon. : )
VardaValar1: She's been helping me with the art page, getting the sizes more manageable again. : )
VardaValar1: That puts us back in Web:
VardaValar1: The Riddles page should be working correctly now, thanks to all of you beta testing it last week. : )
VardaValar1: Story tellers were busy for the Tolkien Site this week.
VardaValar1: Elwing sent in the longest one "Too Much of a Good Thing", slightly AU, but an interesting premise on Legolas seeing the huorns at Helm's Deep.
Aerandir V has left the room.
VardaValar1: Jay of Lasgalen sent in "Watching the Sunrise", one of her shorts on the twins, Elladan and Elrohir at Rivendell.
VardaValar1: He that Walks Unseen-(TV) sent in a "letter" story
VardaValar1: "Some Words from the Mor-galad"
VardaValar1: And Ancalagon, the same one in this room as Sarujil, sent in
VardaValar1: "The Duel in the Sky"
VardaValar1: Sorry, I didn't give you the urls, one sec
VardaValar1: That's it.
VardaValar1: In new news not on the general News page
VardaValar1: Eonwe has been working with PHP and CSS programming for the Tolkien and Gaming sites both.
VardaValar1: We may have some going for you, but it may do peculiar things to our links.
VardaValar1: We'll try to prevent that from being a problem. Maybe by doing them both at the same time for a while.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, do you have more to say on that?
Eonwe Valar: hmm
Eonwe Valar: Well, aside from it's looking good so far, and promises to make Varda's life a little bit easier, not much :}
VardaValar1: It's a work in progreas, interrupted by school. : )
VardaValar1: A letter came in from Arveleg, on webwork.
Eonwe Valar: Not much at this moment at least :}
VardaValar1: He has been working more on the Book Review site:
VardaValar1: Some nifty buttons are quickly obvious, and he's done other work.
VardaValar1: Considering that he's also in the middle of a move, starting school, and frantically busy, that's quite amazing.
VardaValar1: He's also made a lot of progress on the timeline project which we hope to unveil sometime to you in the future.
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: sorry for the belated appeance guys
AriehnV: aiya all
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien!
VardaValar1: Lucky you, missed all the web stuff. : )
AriehnV: got stuck in Zull farak
AriehnV: i will read it up in the script :-)
VardaValar1: Happens. We had a Lothar group in Zul Farak last night too. : )
VardaValar1: Couple in UnGoro crater at the moment.

VardaValar1: On to Gaming!
VardaValar1: Who played a non-LotRO, non-WoW game this past week?
VardaValar1: D&D Eberron tabletop as usual Saturday.
VardaValar1: Eonwe has StarCraft 2 news. Go ahead, Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Blizzard has been releasing information on units, and I've been trying to keep the news updated on the Games Page News, even if I've forgotten to let everyone know here :} The newest addition is the Terran Banshee.
VardaValar1: (Reasons to check the Games page news!)
Eonwe Valar: One sec and I'll get a link to the SC2 page for you all :}
ArPharazonV: (warcraft 3, obviously... nearly done!)
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: hehe, sic 'em, Phar!
Eonwe Valar:
Eonwe Valar: That page can unfortunately be very taxing for people looking at it on dial-up. It takes quite some time to load.
VardaValar1: Fangorn and I were taking a peek
VardaValar1: Not running the trailer yet, trying to pay attention to the meeting : )
Eonwe Valar: That's it for my SC2 news.
VardaValar1: Definitely running it after the meeting! Thanks!
Eonwe Valar: MP :}
Eonwe Valar: Oh, one more thing.
VardaValar1: Go ahead
Eonwe Valar: If any of you are keeping an eye on a particular game coming out and would like to keep me updated for the Games Page, I'll try to see that the info gets up on said page's news.
Eonwe Valar: Or if you're keeping an eye out on current games' like BFME, and you happen to notice a new patch is out or something.
VardaValar1: If you don't want to go through us, we have a forum with sections for most of the games.
Eonwe Valar: For games we don't have their own forum for, we do have a Gneral Games forum.
Eonwe Valar: *Genereal
Eonwe Valar: *General, bah.
VardaValar1: hehe - our sympathy. Thanks, Eonwe.
VardaValar1: LotRO: we have members working together running Carn Dum for the high level questing, plus other instances such as the top one in Evendim, The Tomb of Earendil [correction: Tomb of Elendil. Earendil isn't dead!]
VardaValar1: and more in Book and Chapter quests.
ArPharazonV: not long now, all over 20, and both bases half demolished
VardaValar1: Our crafters have been busy so that we have quite a few in the grandmaster category.
VardaValar1: WoW reports next
VardaValar1: Arien, do you have an Argent Dawn report?
AriehnV: just a small side not if you like as there was no valar or valar buddy questing this last week
AriehnV: but we do have a new user of channel valar :-)
VardaValar1: Fellow Tolkien fan or pleasant gamer?
AriehnV: both i would say but more pleasant gamer
AriehnV: .work colleague in fact who has made the jump from his pvp server
AriehnV: so i hope to get him to take the test some time ;-)
VardaValar1: Sorry, Tomb of Elendil
AriehnV: this endeth my repot
VardaValar1: Thanks, Arien! Maybe he'd be able to drop into a meeting sometime. : )
AriehnV: he s still online in fact but i left hehe
VardaValar1: Have to drag him in here, maybe in the background of gaming if his comp can handle it.
AriehnV: oki will do :-) *waves to Eonwe to carry on with his report*
VardaValar1: Eonwe, like to do Lothar now?
Eonwe Valar: Sure
Eonwe Valar: This week, Eonwë's Priest, Elwing's Hunter, Fangorn's Priest, Sauron's Warlock, and Alyssandra (a Priest as well), went into Zul Farrak.
Eonwe Valar: Before that, we gathered up all the Zul Farrak quests (we hope, we got 7 of them :}) to complete them all in one go.
Eonwe Valar: Quests completed:
Eonwe Valar: Scarab Shells, Troll Temper, Tiara of the Deep, Divino-matic Rod, Nekrum's Medallion, The Prophecy of Mosh'aru, Gahz'rilla.
Eonwe Valar: We pretty well cleared the entire instance, and everyone but Sauron's lvl 70 Warlock leveled.
Eonwe Valar: Of course, we ended up coming across a BoP blacksmithing plan that my lvl 70 Paladin, Auros, doesn't have, so now he has to go back there yet again,.. heh.
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: And thus completes my report :}
VardaValar1: Poor Auros : )
AriehnV: I have a quick add in
VardaValar1: Uldaman WoW
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: We were bad and showed up on Tuesday [Fangorn, Varda]
VardaValar1: Elwing is in this room and said she was on for Wednesday and Thursday
VardaValar1: Thursday she saw Vlmo, husband to Theodwyn-(V)
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: He's quite the Tolkien fiend : )
VardaValar1: Aiyata Arien : )
AriehnV: *bows silently*
VardaValar1: but side window chats ;-)
VardaValar1: If there is no more gaming news?
VardaValar1: Any other business?
VardaValar1: Arien has more to report for LotRO : )
ArPharazonV: ok, we're done
AriehnV: Irmo and Miriel helped my young guardian Ariehn at the asssault on Rath Teraig
AriehnV: it was quite funny to run through there with those two high level guys
Fladrifv: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif!
AriehnV: kills were so quick i hardly had time to target one hehe
AriehnV: Aiya Fladrif :-)
ArPharazonV: I have some WoW news that might interest Menelvagor too, but I'll wait until Arien's done
Fladrifv: Sorry...was a little occupied in a game
VardaValar1: Assault on Rath Teraig is an instance, good to have help on and can sometimes be tough to get a group for in the right part of the chain.
VardaValar1: Irmo and Miriel as a pair have been tremendously helpful to a lot of us, and we much appreciate it. : )
AriehnV: it was a no problem , good fun run :-)
AriehnV: and thats it basically
VardaValar1: Phar, Eonwe has WoW news just ahead of you, asked in side chat
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: Blizzard has completed Phase One in optimizing the WoW Armory. See the Armory here or see the list of updates here.
Eonwe Valar: Haven't tried it yet but it's supposed to be a quicker load now, among other things.
Eonwe Valar: That's it from me.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe! Pharazon, you're up next.
ArPharazonV: Ok
ArPharazonV: My raidgroup is coming to an end, leader is leaving, many other people are leaving, and some friends of mine are even leaving the game
ArPharazonV: this is pretty much the BC version of the old RSA, the one which Menelvagor once started
ArPharazonV: therefore I thought he would be interested
ArPharazonV: my nights will be free from here on, so might be able to group with Valar, for I'm alting quite a bit these days too
AriehnV: sad to hear it , Phara
ArPharazonV: although with my study coming one week from now, I doubt I'll be free a lot :-)
ArPharazonV: *nod*
ArPharazonV: several of us have applied to raid communities that are friendly with us, but I won't do it
VardaValar1: School does change a lot of schedules and what can be played.
AriehnV: but these things come and go .. Menel himslf has found a new raid community and is mainly running Kharazan atm
AriehnV: but we havent talked much lately .. he is still not well
ArPharazonV: because, for one, my study won't give me the availability I need to be able to apply to another group
ArPharazonV: also, I don't want to start over in a group of people I hardly know
ArPharazonV: so my raiding career ends this week
VardaValar1: Pugs for you, eh? ouch
VardaValar1: Menelvagor is not well?
ArPharazonV: it's not so much school, Varda, as people are just burned out
VardaValar1: Too much of anything will do that.
ArPharazonV: our leader had control of guild and community for 2 years, since Menelvagor left
ArPharazonV: and she just had enough of the drama and pressure, we'd been hitting a rough spot
ArPharazonV: couldn't get Vashj killed
ArPharazonV: or he
ArPharazonV: male player, female character
VardaValar1: That's a neat switch.
VardaValar1: I keep "threatening" to make a male character. : ) Not enough slots, alas.
ArPharazonV: I'm just sad for all the people who are leaving the game because of it, or are leaving our guild, oldest on the server, because the other communities they're joining require them to be in the guild
ArPharazonV: the guilds corresponding with those communities, that is
ArPharazonV: yeah, I've got 6 male and 4 female
VardaValar1: Seems very sad to leave a game because one's guild breaks up.
ArPharazonV: though I might sacrifice my lvl 2 priest for a death knight in the next expansion, and then I'll probably make that a female, so then it's 5-5
VardaValar1: They can't find a new leader from the group?
ArPharazonV: no, too many people taking the chance to leave the group alltogether
ArPharazonV: and those people are just bored with the rest of the game, and raiding and our community was pretty much all that held them in
ArPharazonV: so they're leaving
ArPharazonV: I think this is having more radical consequences for our guild than BC had
ArPharazonV: and that's saying a lot
VardaValar1: Know any that you would like to bring into Valar, maybe LotRO?
ArPharazonV: but well, I can't be worried too much, I have my study coming, so I would have had to become more casual anyway
ArPharazonV: I've talked to some about LotR, and mentioned it a few times in our own guild, but among those leaving there aren't really many interested
VardaValar1: We are only looking for a few good Valar. : )
ArPharazonV: we have started an initiative to make a Messenger community outside the game, though
ArPharazonV: many are sharing our msn addresses, I've got a list of 10 people already
ArPharazonV: so at least we'll be able to stay in touch
VardaValar1: Nice : )
ArPharazonV: so yeah, that's basically it... when Menel reads the transcript, he'll know that his beloved RSA has finally bitten the dust
AriehnV: it will add to his worries
VardaValar1: He is having enough headache problems at the moment, but maybe when he feels better.
ArPharazonV: perhaps
VardaValar1: Did anyone else have more business to add?
ArPharazonV: he's taken his distance from it nearly 2 years ago, though
ArPharazonV: so I doubt it'll upset him much
VardaValar1: Fladrif, you have business
VardaValar1: You were asking about a game.
Eonwe Valar: Not to sound cold, but the Valar Guild is having it's 10th Anniversary in a month, so the fact that this place which he has been a member of for so long is still around should give him and all its current members at least a modicum
Eonwe Valar: of comfort :}
VardaValar1: Archlord, a free game.
ArPharazonV: true, Eonwe :-)
VardaValar1: Aye, we are still here for him and all of us. : )
ArPharazonV: that's what, my fourth year for me then?
ArPharazonV: makes sense, because it was at the beginning of my old study that I joined, and that was 4 years ago
VardaValar1: Oct 4, 2003 is what your joining date shows on the Membership page, Phar.
ArPharazonV: yep
VardaValar1: Fladrif was asking:
VardaValar1: Fladrifv:
VardaValar1: if we know anything about that free game. He's wanting to play it.
VardaValar1: I am not familiar with it.
Eonwe Valar: Archlord sounds familiar, but I don't have any knowledge of it.
ArPharazonV: never heard of it
VardaValar1: Back to the upcoming Tenth Anniversary, we are taking suggestions for ways to celebrate it. : )  [This mostly went on in side windows.]
ArPharazonV: oh, 1 more thing
VardaValar1: This should be a special one.
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar?
ArPharazonV: in 8 days, my new study is starting
ArPharazonV: and the first day starts rather early
VardaValar1: Study, as in school?
ArPharazonV: *nod*
ArPharazonV: not sure what the appropriate word is, so always used that one
VardaValar1: That is fine.
ArPharazonV: so I have to go to bed early the day before, on Sunday
VardaValar1: Every Sunday for quite some time?
ArPharazonV: I'm not even sure if I'll be around for the meeting, but if I am, I'll have to leave early
ArPharazonV: not sure, depends on the regular schedule, how early monday is starting
ArPharazonV: I hope I won't have to miss every meeting
VardaValar1: You will be the one needing the transcripts that you have been helping with so long. : )
ArPharazonV: but in any case, I'll probably have to go after an hour or so
VardaValar1: We will certainly miss your active voice!
ArPharazonV: yeah... well.. what can you do
VardaValar1: Meetings tend to run too long anyway. : )
ArPharazonV: *nod*
ArPharazonV: so if I'm not here next week, you know why
VardaValar1: If I go back to putting discussion topics on the Forum, would you sound off on them?
ArPharazonV: I could try, check the forum daily
VardaValar1: Thanks, we really appreciate your letting us know.
ArPharazonV: though I prefer discussing with direct feedback, if you know what I mean
VardaValar1: I used to put them up, but no one replied.
ArPharazonV: I'm guessing that goes for everyone else too then :-)
VardaValar1: When you can't do that, we have the forum.
VardaValar1: Many say they can't come due to work, school, or time zone. Any suggestions to help those folk are welcome.
VardaValar1: Feel free to toss goodies into the Tolkien and Gaming sites too. : )
Eonwe Valar: I kinda thought the Forum would help with those reasons, but that's me :}
VardaValar1: Some double as school projects.
VardaValar1: I had hoped the Forum would serve as a place for discussion as it does for many other groups.
Fladrifv: *creating goodies atm*
VardaValar1: hehe - Fladrif got an idea. : )
VardaValar1: The tree bears fruit. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Fladrifv: maybe you humans dont like pineapples as goodie but ok
VardaValar1: As for the Anniversary, any stories written especially for that, please label as such so that it will be included with the story, article, poem, translation, etc.
Eonwe Valar: The Forum offers more chance for digging a bit into the books as well. Not that we don't do that here, but discussiosn on the Forum, there's no worries your fellows will have to leave shortly.
Eonwe Valar: Maybe a 10 question quiz on Guild history? :}
VardaValar1: I agree, Eonwe. It should be a very good place for discussion, not just trivia stumpers, which are also fun and up.
VardaValar1: heh
Fladrifv: a meet and greet with the total guild ....only moneywise not posible
AriehnV: it would be nice to meet you all in person
Eonwe Valar: We can do it here on AIM if everyone would come.
Eonwe Valar: It'd be rough to get the entire Guild together in person, though it would be cool. Imagine holding the Sunday meeting in person, heh :}
VardaValar1: We will be having the chat room open, trying to keep it open for that week, as has become tradition. :-)
ArPharazonV: nice idea for the summer holidays, though I doubt we'll pull it off on the anniversary :-)
Fladrifv: last time arphar wanted to cut my roots so dont know if its a good thing
VardaValar1: That would be fun. : )
ArPharazonV: the meeting thing, that is
VardaValar1: We have a group of Valarites at my house fairly often, and not just family.
VardaValar1: One way to get together, in costume if we want, is to go to the Texas Renaissance Festival. : )
Fladrifv: can do an europe and us meeting that should be possible
Fladrifv: usa..
VardaValar1: Any group who can get together physically might want to do it and send in a report, at least who was there, to the News. : )
VardaValar1: Photos are welcome if you are willing.
Fladrifv: I think Ill leave everyone alive
VardaValar1: A while back, someone suggested a collection of pictures of us in our gaming characters.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Fladrif. Much appreciated. ; )
ArPharazonV: I have an idea, let's have a small meetup then of me and Fladrif! Should be easy enough ;-)
VardaValar1: On the Forum, Lindir as Curulinde suggested a way to make a signature shot, but that could also work for guild pictures.
VardaValar1: There you go. With a photo of you two or a screenie? : )
VardaValar1: In this room, we have Elwing, Fangorn, and Varda, with Eowyn downstairs. : )
Fladrifv: always a bigger moot
VardaValar1: Always
VardaValar1: But you have the right idea and I agree. : )
Fladrifv: maybe we can toss in the sun aswel for the european side
VardaValar1: Maybe even some guild-friend screenies such as Dracxil. : )
Fladrifv: aswell
VardaValar1: Arien might indeed show. : )
VardaValar1: Irmo and Miriel are in the Netherlands too.
ArPharazonV: so's Menelvagor
VardaValar1: True
VardaValar1: Maybe we can all try to show up at least in game for something special, shoot fireworks, pass around ale and food, kill things. : )
Fladrifv: or lets make one site where everyone gets a frame of
Fladrifv: you can make whatever you want
Fladrifv: so we form a total combined members page
VardaValar1: Such as when the Lothar founders met on the Cathedral steps and shot off fireworks together. : ) With a few spell effects thrown in.
Eonwe Valar: If we did manage to get everyone in here, it would certainly be good to hear some reminiscing from many of them :} Maybe reminders of old battles we fought together in SC/Diablo/D2 that the rest of us may not remember :}
ArPharazonV: I remember one time on another forum, everyone gave their picture on the forum
ArPharazonV: and someone photoshopped them into one setting
VardaValar1: Aye, we were thinking of something like that, at least a collage.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that would probably be a good way to get a "group portrait."
ArPharazonV: in this case, Starwars style, but some artist among us may give it some lotr style? maybe stick our heads on frames from the movie?
VardaValar1: Ok, everyone be thinking about it. We need someone good with manips, likely.
VardaValar1: Shall we go to Tolkien now? I do have a time problem, as do several of you.

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Fladrif, you had a question.
Fladrifv: yes actually for my little story
Fladrifv: that Im writing...
VardaValar1: Brain picking, always good. : )
Fladrifv: was the sun there during the creations of the ents?
VardaValar1: The hardest part might be, when did the ents show up?
VardaValar1: Would they have been there as soon as Yavanna made trees?
Fladrifv: and I assume tom bombadil was already there that might be topic 2 though
VardaValar1: Would they have been present for the Sleep of Yavanna?
ArPharazonV: Yavanna made the Ents as answer to the Dwarves
VardaValar1: Tom is to be left out of this question. ;-)
ArPharazonV: makes sense that when the Dwarves woke up, so would the Ents
VardaValar1: The concepts of wood-users in general.
ArPharazonV: well, yeah
VardaValar1: Aule and Yavanna had the concepts before the making.
VardaValar1: It was something they did during the Song.
ArPharazonV: wasn't the creating of those 2 described in chapter 2 of the Sil?
VardaValar1: Of Aule and Yavanna
Eonwe Valar: "Of Aulë and Yavanna" is the chapter name.
Eonwe Valar: Don't recall the numeral right now.
VardaValar1: Includes eagles too.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, it was CH 2.
VardaValar1: Just checked, it's ch. 2
VardaValar1: Go Eonwe. : )
ArPharazonV: Manwe tells Yavanna that he knew her thought about the ents etc from the Song still, so that's when they were first conceived, of course
VardaValar1: The Firstborn were called Firstborn why?
VardaValar1: They came before humans and therefore human variants.
VardaValar1: The Dwarves were put back to sleep to await their turn, as adopted children. So they would come after the Firstborn.
VardaValar1: Elves started it, waking trees, talking to them.
ArPharazonV: "Behold! When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar (animals and plants), and some will dwell therein,
ArPharazonV: and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power, and while the Secondborn are young."
ArPharazonV: This comes directly from Eru to Manwe
ArPharazonV: so I'd guess the ents and eagles arose shortly after the awakening of the Elves
VardaValar1: Now that's giving words with authority. : )
ArPharazonV: now we know the Elves spent a long time travelling to Valinor, and an even longer time in Valinor before the rebellion, and the creation of the Sun
Srekal86 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: so I'd give a quite educated guess and say that the Ents were there before the rising of the Sun
VardaValar1: The stars were made for the awakening of the Elves. So the Ents would at least have had stars.
VardaValar1: I agree, Phar.
ArPharazonV: by the way, this quote comes from the chapter in question :-)
VardaValar1: So there you go, Fladrif. Fangorn at least saw stars. : )
VardaValar1: Aye, thanks Pharazon.
Fladrifv: thanks for the answer....*deletes some lines of text*
VardaValar1: Ents did have young entings
VardaValar1: So those younger than Fangorn could have come after the rising of the Moon, or of the Sun.
VardaValar1: (Belated membership news, Elwing is here because we threw her a birthday party. : )
ArPharazonV: Congrats!
Eonwe Valar: Happy birthday to Elwing :}
VardaValar1: She says oh thank you thank you!
VardaValar1: Fangorn says to tell you guys I should claim she's 29 today. ;-)
Fladrifv: *throws soem artificial pressents*
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: you should claim? that doesn't sound very convincing :-)
Eonwe Valar: I was once told long ago that a woman stops aging somewhere around 18, heh :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: She says she would like to get out of her teens to at least 21 to be totally legal. : )
Eonwe Valar: (I was too young to know better at the time, heh :})
VardaValar1: heheh
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: I will happily claim the level of 53. Melkor says he will soon have his 70'th birthday. Much to be pleased about. : )
ArPharazonV: lvl 70, eh? flying mount!
Eonwe Valar: Congrats to both of you :} hadn't realized Melkor was closing in that soon on his 70th.
VardaValar1: Caught me by surprise too.
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Makes sense though. Think he was about 63 or something not too long after I joined.
VardaValar1: aye. Didn't he just stay at 63? : )
VardaValar1: Aiya Glorfindel. : )
Eonwe Valar: hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: Heya Glorfindel :}
VardaValar1: We just got through discussing the time of the ents coming. : )
Eonwe Valar: Oh, just to let you all know, no one has got my riddle right yet :}
ArPharazonV: aww, wasn't Saruman either? *checks forum*
VardaValar1: I'd better go check out the latest riddles. : )
ArPharazonV: I'm more intrigued by Anc's new Sil-riddle, actually
Eonwe Valar: I will say this without being too specific, because sometimes it's bad to be too specific (*cough* hint cough*) Read over my posts since the riddle.
Eonwe Valar: Ancalagon's is intersting, aye.
VardaValar1: *passes cough drops*
Eonwe Valar: *interesting.
VardaValar1: Wow. Most on the forum at once was 68. Wonder what dragged so many in at once.
Eonwe Valar: The RP? :}
ArPharazonV: Anc's latest riddle ^^
VardaValar1: :-)
ArPharazonV: allright, so which riddle do we tackle first? Eonwe's? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Let's not discuss Ancalagon's in chat at least, so that I have the week to mull it over :}
ArPharazonV: No man, but looks like a man at first sight
Glorfindel VG: Hey guys
ArPharazonV: that says to me Ainur/Iluvatar, or something disguised as a man, like Eowyn or Merry
ArPharazonV: was Merry disguised when he rode?
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure
Eonwe Valar: Heya Glorfindel :}
ArPharazonV: don't think so, actually
Eonwe Valar: Someone guessed Eowyn already.
Sarujil: only as a bag
Glorfindel VG: I would say Wormtongue if he wasnt a man
Glorfindel VG: but that one has me stumped
VardaValar1: Merry was not disguised, but the Riders pretended he was a bag or tree root. : )
ArPharazonV: just for overview, wrong guesses so far ar
ArPharazonV: *are
ArPharazonV: the Witch-king, Eowyn, Tom Bombadil, Gandalf, Sauron, Gollum, Saruman
ArPharazonV: did I miss any?
Eonwe Valar: Sounds about right.
Glorfindel VG: how about sam gamgee
Eonwe Valar: I point everyone to my comments made when I first brought up my riddle.
Eonwe Valar: That's as much as I dare comment on anything for fear of making it too easy.
AriehnV: Istari in general?
ArPharazonV: I thought of Iluvatar for a bit, but it doesn't really fit
Glorfindel VG: not for lotr anyway
ArPharazonV: the "if perchance abroad I be" bit doesn't work
Sarujil: well, eonwe comments that glorfindel's guess of eowyn was a good one. maybe its dernhelm then :-)
Eonwe Valar: Honestly, the last verse probably doesn't help as much as it should.
Eonwe Valar: But if you'r ealready on the right track, it makes sense.
ArPharazonV: more of a confirmation then
Eonwe Valar: I wouldn't be that specific to rule out Eowyn and say Dernhelm was the answer :}
ArPharazonV: yeah, didn't seem very fair, that
Eonwe Valar: Not unless I was looking specifically for the name Dernhelm, anyway. However, here I am not.
Glorfindel VG: slinker
ArPharazonV: Gollum was already guessed wrong
Eonwe Valar: You can safely assume that any answer I've named as wrong would be wrong no matter what name you used.
Glorfindel VG: good lol :-)
Sarujil: that third line, 'for one am I, and one is for me' keeps making me think of the one ring. eonwe didnt capitalize it though :-)
Glorfindel VG: I kind of thought of that line as a relationship
Glorfindel VG: i am for one, and one is for me
Glorfindel VG: yeah saruman could have worked would have worked
Glorfindel VG: he is for himself and himself only
Glorfindel VG: something like that
ArPharazonV: and he wanted the One Ring above all else, of course :-)
Glorfindel VG: yes indeed hehe
Glorfindel VG: lots of ways to interpret those lines
Eonwe Valar: read these as pairs of lines, verses, not one-linfers.
Eonwe Valar: *one-liners
VardaValar1: I posted the King of the Dead now : )
Glorfindel VG: i thought of that too varda, but isnt he still a man
VardaValar1: a ghost
Glorfindel VG: of a man
Glorfindel VG: hehe
Glorfindel VG: who knows
VardaValar1: Eonwe. : )
Eonwe Valar: I gave two hints at the beginning, and so far only one has caught on to that second hint.
ArPharazonV: at the beginning of the riddle?
Eonwe Valar: At the beginning of this discussion.
Eonwe Valar: It's not the King of the Dead :}
ArPharazonV: Don't suppose you can tell me if the "divine inspiration" bit at the top of your post had anything to do with the riddle?
Eonwe Valar: No, it doesn't. That was how I got "taters" :}
ArPharazonV: yeah, that's what I feared
Eonwe Valar: The hints I'm talking about are mentioned in the opening comments in this channel roundabouts where I said " By the way, no one has got my riddle correct yet."
ArPharazonV: I was also thinking Beorn at some point
ArPharazonV: but that doesn't fit your hints, really ;-)
Glorfindel VG: Lotr though Phar
ArPharazonV: no, lotr + hobbit, no?
Glorfindel VG: i really dont know ehehe
Eonwe Valar: "Oh, just to let you all know, no one has got my riddle right yet :}" is the exact quote, in case you want to scroll up and know whereabouts to look for my hints.
Glorfindel VG: i'll need to adjust my thinking in that case
Eonwe Valar: It's LotR+Hobbit.
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: Oh, just to let you all know, no one has got my riddle right yet :}
Sarujil: dang glorfindel took my next guess :-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: I will say this without being too specific, because sometimes it's bad to be too specific (*cough* hint cough*) Read over my posts since the riddle.
ArPharazonV: all you've said besides "No, it's not xxx" is that Eowyn was a good guess
Eonwe Valar: Really? :}
ArPharazonV: in that thread, yes
Sarujil: he said it was too specific also. someone said witchking, which is one of the nazgul. now glorfindel has guessed simply nazgul
ArPharazonV: *slaps head* of course
ArPharazonV: the 9 riders
ArPharazonV: when they're abroad...
Sarujil: lets see if its correct before we slap ourselves silly :-)
Eonwe Valar: Sorry guys to build the suspense, but I need to throw in the next load of laundry real quick :}
Sarujil: but that glorfindel, he's a sly one! feigning confusion while he posts an answer :-)
Glorfindel VG: hehe :-)
Glorfindel VG: i am still confused though
Glorfindel VG: if nazgul is the right answer, then varda sure helped make that a tough riddle
VardaValar1: Mean ol
Glorfindel VG: once she guessed witch king, i thereafter ruled all that out
VardaValar1: me : )
VardaValar1: afk also : )
Sarujil: i was just about to post nazgul and then i scrolled down and saw glorfindel had already posted it :/
Glorfindel VG: sowwy :-(
Sarujil: saright
Glorfindel VG: ar-phar did the same thing to me for saruman
Glorfindel VG: fortunately he was wrong though ;-)
Sarujil: heh
Glorfindel VG: I am not sure it is nazgul though
Glorfindel VG: ill keep thinking
ArPharazonV: yes, it said one of the Istari, I'll go with Gandalf, and Gandalf was ruled out
ArPharazonV: and I figured... why not any of the others?
ArPharazonV: didn't really seem to work for any of the other Istari though, so I went with Saruman
Eonwe Valar: Back
Sarujil: well, technically, only two of the istari are in the lotr: gandalf and saruman. both have been guessed
Eonwe Valar: Not the Nazgul, but not a bad guess.
Glorfindel VG: I thought saruman because of him as sharky
Sarujil: radagast doesnt count
Glorfindel VG: wandering about hooded and cloked as an old man etc
Sarujil: he doesnt do anything :-)
Eonwe Valar: Anyone in Hobbit and LotR counts :}
Eonwe Valar: if you can find an adequate way to express the question, at least :}
Sarujil: well only one istari is in the hobbit
AriehnV: oh yes he brings the news of the nazgul being abroad to all the animals and shows loyalty to gandalf there :-)
ArPharazonV: ah yes, Radagast is mentioned in flashback in Lotr :-)
Eonwe Valar: Sauron is in The Hobbit as the Necromancer :}
ArPharazonV: he told Gandalf to visit Saruman, I think?
Sarujil: hes not an istari though
Eonwe Valar: I was just throwing that out there :}
Sarujil: oh. sauron was already wrong though :-)
ArPharazonV: apparently, so are the Nazgul
ArPharazonV: I could say Istari, but the second verse doesn't work for that
Eonwe Valar: Aye, the Nazgul are wrong, but I think a little bit of knowledge was also gained in the guess.
AriehnV: anyway i have to go now though i could go on all night with this metal in the background .. just powerful .. but have to get bruce upstairs ;-) and he works early
VardaValar1: Good night!
Eonwe Valar: Ok :} Take care Arien and sleep well :}
AriehnV: good night all :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Sarujil: night arien
Eonwe Valar: To both of you over there :}
VardaValar1: :-)
AriehnV: Namarie :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
Glorfindel VG: Could it be ugluk and his band of uruks
Eonwe Valar: I will say this: I know that we have discussed my answer in Tolkien chat before :}
Eonwe Valar: No guarantee on how long ago, but it has been mentioned :}
ArPharazonV: Oi...
ArPharazonV: we've discussed everything
ArPharazonV: don't suppose it's the Balrog?
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Nearly 10 years of chat, three per week for a while, and many not on transcripts. whee.
ArPharazonV: and his wings and/or bunny slippers?
VardaValar1: Bunny slippers! There you go!
Eonwe Valar: Well, you'd only have to go 8 years back to see all the ones I know specifically about :}
Eonwe Valar: I know I know, still not helpful :}
Eonwe Valar: What do you know about the answers so far?
VardaValar1: That the family wants to go start on the birthday movie? : )
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, ok :} Everyone can feel free to go :}
ArPharazonV: I know that everything I thought I knew is apparently not what I know
VardaValar1: They are muttering, just a little more Ungoro soil....
Sarujil: im starting to wonder if the answer is a person at all
Glorfindel VG: is the mouth of sauron a man
Eonwe Valar: If no one gets it by next week, I'll see about adding a couple of verses if I can't hint any better than I have. maybe midweek if I'm particularly inspired at the time.
Glorfindel VG: could ba statue or something
VardaValar1: The Mouth of Sauron is a human man.
Sarujil: we've guessed just about every character
VardaValar1: Not hardly, Anc : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, you've guessed many characters.
Eonwe Valar: Apparently my hints are a bit too subtle :}
Glorfindel VG: how about pippin
Glorfindel VG: or merry
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Sarujil: or frodo
Glorfindel VG: or bill the donkey
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: pony!
Glorfindel VG: pony
Glorfindel VG: lol
Sarujil: or bill ferny!
Eonwe Valar: For those who are reading the transcript, here is the riddle in full :} :
Sarujil: or the half orc dude! hes not a man!
ArPharazonV: hehe
Eonwe Valar: "No man am I, though at first sight/for a man take me you might.
Glorfindel VG: mrs sackville baggins?
Eonwe Valar: For one am I, and one is for me./If not for that one then for none shall I be.
Glorfindel VG: whats her name
Eonwe Valar: If perchance abroad I be/perhaps to your affairs you should see."
ArPharazonV: Lobelia?
Sarujil: maybe the second part of the first line actually means that youd take this thing in return for a man :-)
Eonwe Valar: The last verse isn't quite as helpful as the first and second verses.
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Sarujil: or intending to give it to a man
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: [Boromir]: It is a gift...
Eonwe Valar: It's kinda fun seeing the thought process work itself out :}
Sarujil: i was gonna guess the one ring, but its too hard to make it fit into the riddle
Eonwe Valar: I will say aye, it would be hard to mistake a ring for a man.
ArPharazonV: so you acknowledge that the second line of the first verse means indeed that you mistake it to be a man?
Eonwe Valar: I took some poetic license to make it rhyme, but aye, I will acknowledge that if it helps.
ArPharazonV: well, if it eliminates certain options, it helps ;-)
Sarujil: in that case, its one of these: a woman mistaken to be a man; some other race, i.e. dwarf elf hobbit, mistaken for a man; or some artificial thing like a statue that thinks is alive
Sarujil: that one thinks is alive
Star of Phaet: A Ringwraith
Glorfindel VG: Arwen wouldnt easily be mistaken for a man would she
Eonwe Valar: Nazgul have been guessed, and was wrong.
Star of Phaet: dang :-)
Sarujil: not by looks, certainly, glor
ArPharazonV: how about *a* Nazgul?
Glorfindel VG: lol
Glorfindel VG: i certainly hope not phar
Sarujil: ill kick eonwe if it is
Star of Phaet: haha
Eonwe Valar: Eh, I think if it were "a" Nazgul, I would've given the credit. That would be a bit pickier than I want to get with this question.
ArPharazonV: aw darn, and I was just about to suggest it ;-)
ArPharazonV: on the forum, that is
Eonwe Valar: I could quit eliminating responses like that if you want :}
Sarujil: it could be a child mistaken for a man, arent many kids tho
VardaValar1: Bergil!
Glorfindel VG: some dwarf women look like men i've heard
ArPharazonV: a child, when abroad, you should see to your affairs?
ArPharazonV: doubtful
Sarujil: lol dwarf women
Star of Phaet: Gwai would like to know what incorrect guesses there have been so far, please
Sarujil: i think that would be the first, second, third, and possibly fourth glances youd think a dwarf woman was a dwarf man :-)
ArPharazonV: (it's the beard)
Sarujil: undoubtedly
Eonwe Valar: Official Guesses have been:
Glorfindel VG: I wonder if tolkien himself could guess this riddle
Sarujil: although (and excuse my coarseness here) if you discovered that a dwarf man was really 'a broad' you might have to go see to your affairs :-)
Eonwe Valar: The Witch-King, Eowyn, Tom Bombadil, Gandalf, Sauron, Gollum, Saruman, and Nazgul.
Eonwe Valar: Oh, and the King of the Dead.
Sarujil: and a tater, its not a tater
ArPharazonV: and the one ring
Eonwe Valar: I'm only listing official guesses, i.e. those that count.
Eonwe Valar: I will neither confirm nor deny anything that has not been posted to the Forum.
Glorfindel VG: So if we guessed right in here, you would not say anything Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: Though I did clarify the meaning of the first verse.
Glorfindel VG: ohh
Glorfindel VG: nuts
Eonwe Valar: No, I could not say a thing....
Eonwe Valar: All of my subtle hints will have to be good enough :} I can give no more :}
ArPharazonV: you *could* not say a thing?
ArPharazonV: so it has been mentioned then?
Sarujil: mmm ... maybe it is tater after all...
ArPharazonV: mr potato man?
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, that sentence isn't meant to be a clue. If it were guessed here, I would not say a thing to indicate it's correctness.
VardaValar1: You clarified the first verse?
Eonwe Valar: I explained that I used poetic liecense to make it rhyme.
Sarujil: yes it isnt meant to be taken the way anc tried to twist it into being the one ring :-)
Eonwe Valar: ArPharazonV: so you acknowledge that the second line of the first verse means indeed that you mistake it to be a man?
Eonwe Valar: Eonwe Valar: I took some poetic license to make it rhyme, but aye, I will acknowledge that if it helps.
VardaValar1: Ok, thanks.
Star of Phaet: Gwai wants to know if by 'man', you mean 'male' or 'the race of men'
Star of Phaet: or both
Eonwe Valar: I would suggest that anyone with a guess that thinks it may be right, consider how each answer may fit within the scheme of the riddle, then if they find it fits well enough, post it to the Forum for consideration.
Sarujil: i wonder, if it was actually mistaken to be a man somewhere in the books, or if it could possibly be, somehow, mistaken for a man
Sarujil: but wasnt explicitly mistaken
VardaValar1: Ok, guys. We're off to more birthday shenanigans. : )
Eonwe Valar: I think my subtle hints on this matter will have to be enough. Clues are there to be read.
Sarujil: namarie varda
Eonwe Valar: Have fun Varda :}
Sarujil: lets compile the hints:
Sarujil: 1. its not good to be to specific
Eonwe Valar: Check pages 10 and 11 of this thread Gilraen/Gwaihir:http://valarguild.proboards2 action=display&thread=1100486191&page =11
ArPharazonV: *smile* Glorfindel posted 3 guesses
VardaValar1: Yay Glorfindel!
Sarujil: maybe its the hand of the barrow wight in the cave where the hobbits were caught :-)
VardaValar1: Namarie
VardaValar1 has left the room.
Sarujil: lol now glor has a 4th guess
ArPharazonV: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Glorfindel, please post only one at a time :}
Eonwe Valar: at least if no one has guessed or responded between your guesses :}
ArPharazonV: he does!
ArPharazonV: and then he makes a new one in another post
ArPharazonV: ah :-)
Eonwe Valar: That's kind of cheating :}
ArPharazonV: well, I made a guess, so go ahead and make a new suggestion, Glorfindel ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I think he needs to wait a few moments now :} Shotgunning the answer isn't very fair :}
Sarujil: well eonwe says that the nazgul is a good guess. whats close to a nazgul? :-)
ArPharazonV: he also said Eowyn was a good guess
ArPharazonV: what's close to a Nazgul *and* close to Eowyn?
Sarujil: so a female nazgul in a helmet
Glorfindel VG: thats why i said merry
ArPharazonV: heh
Eonwe Valar: Ouch to Merry.
Glorfindel VG: helped eowyn kill nazgul i mean
Glorfindel VG: hehe
ArPharazonV: I think that's the first time in a meeting we compared Merry to a female nazgul in a helmet
Sarujil: lol
Eonwe Valar: I think I'll only count Glorfindel's first guess :}
Glorfindel VG: awww
Sarujil: does that mean one of his other three guesses was right??
ArPharazonV: the rest doesn't count, that obviously means we get to post them again
Sarujil: i dont really think its bill ferny though :-)
Eonwe Valar: No it doesn't just that I don't want to encourage shotgunning the answers, i.e. throwing out a bunch of answers at once and hoping one hits :}
ArPharazonV: so do we get post them again or not?
Sarujil: dang and i was going to cut-and-paste the index from the back of rotk
Glorfindel VG: maybe the answer is pipe weed
ArPharazonV: ...
ArPharazonV: it's not a man, but can be mistaken for a man
Eonwe Valar: They can be reposted since they're not being counted, once I've responded, but that doesn't mean they are right or wrong.
Glorfindel VG: can i repost once someone else posts after me eonwe
Sarujil: that could be, if you found pipeweed abroad, youd go make sure your affairs were in order before you smoked it in case you got lung cancer
ArPharazonV: I posted last, Glorfindel, so go ahead!
Glorfindel VG: No man am I, though at first sightfor a man take me you might.
Sarujil: actually i have a guess on there too
ArPharazonV: ah, you did
ArPharazonV: a new page already :P
Sarujil: thats two whole pages of eonwe's riddle! and you guys thought mine were tough :-)
Eonwe Valar: Ancalagon's answer of a Barrow-Wight is incorrect. It has problems going with the second and third verses.
Sarujil: was a shot in the dark
Sarujil: while blindfolded
Sarujil: backwards
ArPharazonV: made my next post after Glorfindel's
Sarujil: and no bow or arrow
Sarujil: so did i :-)
ArPharazonV: hahaha
Eonwe Valar: I think I've been arming you guys quite well myself :}
Sarujil: only if we want to slog through 8 years of meeting transcripts :-)
Eonwe Valar: I will add this: You're putting the clues together in quite an interesting way :}
Sarujil: i said we should put all the clues in one spot but no one backed me up :-(
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Glorfindel VG: the clues are just getting me more confused
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: welcome back
Eonwe Valar: Dratted esc button. too used to using it in games.
Eonwe Valar: oh well, can I get a list of everything typed after my last sentence?
ArPharazonV: Eonwe Valar: I will add this: You're putting the clues together in quite an interesting way :}Sarujil: i said we should put all the clues in one spot but no one backed me up :-(
ArPharazonV: Eonwe Valar has left the room.Glorfindel VG: the clues are just getting me more confusedEonwe Valar has entered the room.ArPharazonV: welcome back
Sarujil: Glorfindel VG (8:37:10 PM): the clues are just getting me more confused
Glorfindel VG: :-(
Eonwe Valar: Consider this...
ArPharazonV: *gets out the notebook*
Eonwe Valar: First, what clues have I given in the trivia thread?
Sarujil: eowyn was a good guess; nazgul almost fits but not quite; barrow wight doesnt fit the last two verses
Eonwe Valar: (heh, it would be sooo easy to say "Too bad, looks like I get the first riddle that can't be answered at the after-meeting riddle discussion.:}." But I won't do that :})
ArPharazonV: I will say this without being too specific, because sometimes it's bad to be too specific (*cough* hint cough*) Read over my posts since the riddle.
Eonwe Valar: So why was Eowyn a good guess?
Sarujil: because she was a non-man mistaken for a man
Eonwe Valar: What is it about that answer that wasn't in the other answers?
ArPharazonV: and because when she was abroad, things were afoot!
Glorfindel VG: she was actually mistaken for a man
Glorfindel VG: disguised?
ArPharazonV: she pretended to be a man?
Eonwe Valar: What was "not a bad guess" about the Nazgul? anything there reiunforced by my comments about the Barrow-Wights?
Eonwe Valar: *reinforced.
Eonwe Valar: Any pattern in my responses?
Sarujil: at first glance it seems to indicate them, you said
Sarujil: second verse doesnt fit in either
Sarujil: by verse, you mean couplet or line?
ArPharazonV: to the Nazgul, only the second verse didn't work, while for the Barrow-wights, both second and third
ArPharazonV: so for the Nazgul, the third one did work!
Eonwe Valar: Verse = each pair of lines.
Eonwe Valar: Above, I posted the riddle as it should be read.
Eonwe Valar: A while back.
Sarujil: the second verse is: For one am I, and one is for me/If not for that one then for none shall I be
Eonwe Valar: I no longer have it in this log.
Sarujil: seems to be the key?
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Gwaihir :}
Sarujil: hey gwaihir lend us your wisdom in answering this riddle!
ArPharazonV: well, I'm out, going to bed
ArPharazonV: I'm sure you guys will figure it out
ArPharazonV: I have one more, but not sure if I'm allowed to post it yet
Glorfindel VG: If the answer comes to you in a dream, be sure to post it
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Phar :}
ArPharazonV: seeing as I made the last one, but Eonwe already said that wasn't it
ArPharazonV: so can I make a new one?
GwaihirValar: I've already been thinking about it...
Eonwe Valar: After I've responded, you can take a new guess, yes.
Sarujil: come up with any insights o great windlord?
ArPharazonV: allright, posted, saving and sending now
ArPharazonV: Eonwe, I trust you will save again after this discussion is over?
mordacil has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: I want to see how it goes, and how any new answers are come upon
Eonwe Valar: Aye
mordacil: my internet died, so I went to sleep
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Eonwe Valar: Phar, I'll go ahead and tell you your answer is wrong.
ArPharazonV: allright
GwaihirValar: Not really, I keep getting stuck on the riddle itself. There aren't many characters who are neither male nor of the race of men, so all of my guesses keep getting trumped by the riddle itself
Eonwe Valar: Take care and sleep well though :}
Eonwe Valar: Someone please share my hints so far.
ArPharazonV: sounds like a job for Anc
Sarujil: unless its not a character at all. maybe its a pukel man
ArPharazonV: ok, saving
mordacil: whats the riddle?
Eonwe Valar: Wb Aerandir :} Hpoe you slept well in those few hours at least :}
ArPharazonV: ok, saved
mordacil: yeah, weird dreams...I was on mythbusters
Eonwe Valar: One sec, I'll repost the riddle as it was meant to be read.
Eonwe Valar: hehe Aerandir :}
Eonwe Valar: "No man am I, though at first sight/for a man take me you might.
Eonwe Valar: For one am I, and one is for me./If not for that one then for none shall I be.
Eonwe Valar: If perchance abroad I be/perhaps to your affairs you should see."
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Sarujil: here are the hints i can find:
ArPharazonV: it is sent
Eonwe Valar: The third verse is not as helpful as it should be, but I've no ideas how to amend it to be more helpful to those without an idea of what it could be.
ArPharazonV: *vanishes into his caves*
ArPharazonV has left the room.
GwaihirValar: Honestly the riddle matches up best to a Nazgul, but thats already been ruled out... all three parts suit them heh I can't think of any other entities who suit all three parts
Sarujil: did you guys get any of the message i last posted? about the hints?
GwaihirValar: I didn't
Eonwe Valar: Last from you I got was: Sarujil: here are the hints i can find:
Sarujil: eowyn was a good guess; nazgul almost fits but not quite; barrow wight doesnt fit the last two verses
Sarujil: to the Nazgul, only the second verse didn't work, while for the Barrow-wights, both second and third
Sarujil: sometimes it's bad to be too specific
Sarujil: Read over Eonwe's posts since the riddle
Sarujil: I know that we have discussed [the correct] answer in Tolkien chat before
Sarujil: anything i left out eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: Repost the stuff since my hitting the escape button.
Eonwe Valar: Too bad Gwaihir doesn't have access to all of the brainstorming.....
Sarujil: thats a lot of stuff
Sarujil: Eonwe Valar (8:42:49 PM): What was "not a bad guess" about the Nazgul? anything there reiunforced by my comments about the Barrow-Wights? Eonwe Valar (8:43:13 PM): *reinforced. Eonwe Valar (8:43:22 PM): Any pattern in my responses?
Eonwe Valar: minus the repeats of my hints.
Sarujil: So why was Eowyn a good guess? Sarujil (8:41:45 PM): because she was a non-man mistaken for a man Eonwe Valar (8:41:57 PM): What is it about that answer that wasn't in the other answers?
GwaihirValar: That was the only one that was using man to mean male
Eonwe Valar: I'll say that in chat they've hit upon that hint a few times but apparently never used it.
GwaihirValar: There aren't really many other 'manlike non-men' characters out there. Except the female dwarves
GwaihirValar: Which might be why people aren't using it...
Sarujil: there i put a female dwarf up as official answer :-)
Sarujil: will put that one to rest!
Sarujil: one way or the other
Eonwe Valar: Ok guys, I'm going to give you the answer, and all of you who hit upon it an hour and a half ago are going to yell "Arg!" :}
Eonwe Valar: A female Dwarf :}
Sarujil: i just posted it hehehehehe
GwaihirValar: anca beat you
GwaihirValar: lol
Sarujil: before you gave it away :-)
Eonwe Valar: That's why I gave it away, Ancalagon :}
GwaihirValar: haha
Sarujil: oh great now i get to come up with another riddle, and no one has even attempted my sil one yet
GwaihirValar: See, it just doesn't feel like it fits the last part of the riddle for me...
Eonwe Valar: I said the third doesn't help much.
Sarujil: here let me quote my line that puts it all into focus....
Eonwe Valar: I've been trying to stress that :}
GwaihirValar: I suppose since it is mentioned that dwarves mate for life it fits the second part....
Sarujil: although (and excuse my coarseness here) if you discovered that a dwarf man was really 'a broad' you might have to go see to your affairs :-)
mordacil: "No man am I, though at first sight/for a man take me you might. For one am I, and one is for me./If not for that one then for none shall I be. If perchance abroad I be/perhaps to your affairs you should see."
Eonwe Valar: It is also mentioned, Gwaihir, that not all female Dwarves marry, some because the one they want they cannot have.
mordacil: I had a question but then i realized teh answer
Eonwe Valar: That was the meaning of the second verse.
Sarujil: yeah now i get the second line
Glorfindel VG: the answer is female dwarf?
GwaihirValar: yes
Eonwe Valar: Of course, the meaning of the first verse was that most other races wouldn't readily recognize a female Dwarf from a male Dwarf, sicne they are so alike in appearance and voice.
Eonwe Valar: The third verse is from the part where female Dwarves only go abroad "at great need." As I said, it wasn't quite as helpful.
Glorfindel VG: didnt i come up with that anc as a joke answer?
Eonwe Valar: Arien was the first to hit on my hint that we weren't talking about a specific character, but a group.
Glorfindel VG: about an hour ago
Sarujil: yeah glor
Glorfindel VG: dang
Sarujil: and then gwai came back to it
Sarujil: and i decided to put it to rest once and for all, never really believing it to be the real answer
Eonwe Valar: I told you all around that time that I suggested anyone with a reasonable answer post it, heh :}
Glorfindel VG: Glorfindel VG: some dwarf women look like men i've heard
Glorfindel VG: i would have never thought that was it lol
Sarujil: you can ask the next question if you want Glorfindel; i need more time to come up with my next riddle anyway :-)
Glorfindel VG: can i?
Sarujil: sure
Glorfindel VG: ill make up an easy one real quick
Eonwe Valar: Make sure Ancalagon mentions he's passing it to you, but Ancalagon's giving up his turn in the process :} Feel free to mention Glorfindel was the first to mention the answer in chat, too :}
Eonwe Valar: Actuall,y I had meant to do that as well.
Eonwe Valar: One sec.
Eonwe Valar: There.
Sarujil: now you have to solve my riddle eonwe :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'll work on it :}
GwaihirValar: okay, I've gotta run now. Friend's on her way back to England and Gilraen and I have to go see her to the airport
GwaihirValar: so... we'll be back in a few hours prolly
Eonwe Valar: Interesting there were some guesses of women in the chat, but no one used them during this session until the very end.
Sarujil: farewell gwai
Eonwe Valar: Take care Gwaihir :}
Eonwe Valar: Good to see you in person :}
Eonwe Valar: You and Gilraen take care :}
Eonwe Valar: ArPharazonV: so you acknowledge that the second line of the first verse means indeed that you mistake it to be a man?Eonwe Valar: I took some poetic license to make it rhyme, but aye, I will acknowledge that if it helps.
Eonwe Valar: Just something I'd thought I'd point out, but guess that doesn't quite help as much.
Eonwe Valar: With Eowyn as a clue it should've helped though.
Sarujil: she doesnt look much like a female dwarf though
Eonwe Valar: The clue was she's a woman :}
Eonwe Valar: The clue for "Nazgul" and "Barrow Wight" were that they're not specific characters, fitting with my previous clue.
mordacil: what rules out nazgul?
Eonwe Valar: That it wasn't the answer :}
Glorfindel VG: k mines posted
Glorfindel VG: should be easy i tink
Eonwe Valar: The second verse is a bit shaky for it as well.
Eonwe Valar: The tone of the second verse shuld indicate a certain amount of pride.
Eonwe Valar: *should
mordacil has left the room.
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Welcome back :}
Eonwe Valar: Well, I have other tasks I must attend to in preparation for tomorrow.
Eonwe Valar: Take care everyone, good night, sleep well, and have fun :}
Sarujil: later eonwe
Eonwe Valar: I'll be thinking about your riddle Ancalagon :}
Sarujil: you better :-)