Valar Guild

April 1, 2007 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon-(V), Eonwe-(Valar), and Varda-(Valar)

Attending: (17)
    Members: Aerandir-(V)/mordacil, Ancalagon-(V)/Sarujil, AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Arwen V1, Beorn-(V)/TwoSurlyDwarves, Bombur-(V)/MrMonkey2002Blah, Eilinel-(V)/oladys 123, Eonwe Valar (presiding), FladrifV, Gelmir-(V)/Shaggyjoe, GilraenV, Manwe-(Valar)/Russ82275, Menelvagor Valar, Pallando Valar, VardaValar1
    Friends: Srekal86

Meeting begins

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: lo
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: you're on time!
Menelvagor Valar: by coincidence.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
GilraenV has entered the room.
MrMonkey2002Blah has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya all
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya
GilraenV: Aiya folks
Menelvagor Valar: I won't be staying long I am afraid, I have a batch of homework that is due in tomorrow, which I should finish.
Eonwe Valar: Ok
Menelvagor Valar: I do have a bit of a report to make in the games section though.
Eonwe Valar: If you'd like to whisper it, I'll make sure it's mentioned there.
Pallando Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Or however you want it to get to me so I can make sure it gets there./
Pallando Valar: Eonwe, you get my pm on the forums?
Menelvagor Valar: I know how it works :-)
AriehnV has entered the room.
Pallando Valar: I'm glad you did, leaving for work.
AriehnV: Aiya all together
Eonwe Valar: I got it if you're talking about Eve, aye.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: Heya
AriehnV: Nice to see ye all
FladrifV has entered the room.
Sarujil has entered the room.
FladrifV: Aiya
Sarujil: hi
ArPharazonV: Aiya all just-entered people :-)
AriehnV: jo Ent :) greetings to you all
Srekal86 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Arien with an 'h'?
Menelvagor Valar: probably taken.
AriehnV: exactly
AriehnV: same as in Wow
Srekal86: /me waves
AriehnV: So i took Ariehn
Menelvagor Valar: hi there Srekal.
AriehnV: /me waves to Srekal
Eonwe Valar: We'll begin in a couple more minutes.
Eonwe Valar: Whisper news to me now to get mentioned, and we might just get through the meeting quickly.
Eonwe Valar: While we're at it, start formulating Tolkien topics and whisper those to me as well :}
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya
Sarujil: hi varda
ArPharazonV: hmm... the left piece of my headphones is dying again
ArPharazonV: Aiya Varda
VardaValar1: Thanks. All yours :-)
AriehnV: Aiya Varda!
Menelvagor Valar: so it has died before and you managed to ressurrect it?
Shaggyjoe has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, let us being, but keep Tolkien topics coming.
Eonwe Valar: *let us begin
ArPharazonV: nay, replaced it
ArPharazonV: this is like the third one, but each time it's only the left side....

Eonwe Valar: Elenn Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
ArPharazonV: very odd
Menelvagor Valar: maybe your babelfish won't stick on that side then?
ArPharazonV: my what?
Eonwe Valar: Take it to whispers, guys :}
Menelvagor Valar: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Translator fish.
VardaValar1: Hitchiker reference
Menelvagor Valar: sorry Eonwe, trying to buy myself some time to come up with a truly amazing April Fool's joke...
Menelvagor Valar: unfortunately, I am slab dang out of ideas.
Eonwe Valar: Blizzard has some, but I'll leave that for gaming :}
Eonwe Valar: For now, we go into Membership News:
Eonwe Valar: First, we have a new member, Theodwyn, who joined us in WoW via our Uldaman group.
Eonwe Valar: Second, Finduilas is no more.
Eonwe Valar: As of last week, she became the Maia Arien :}
VardaValar1: *throws sparkly confetti*
ArPharazonV: *applauds*
Sarujil: yay!
AriehnV: *bows*
Eonwe Valar: Varda tells me we also have a new member via LotRO, but he has not chosen a name yet.
Eonwe Valar: Any other member news?

Eonwe Valar: Ok, on to Web News:
Eonwe Valar: New story for the Mellon Chronicles series by Cassia and Siobahn: "Traitor."
Eonwe Valar: Any more Web news?

Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: Menel tells me there's a games convention in the northern part of the Netherlands.
Eonwe Valar: Alot of boardgames and cardgames being demonstrated.
Eonwe Valar: Were you planning on going, Menel?
Menelvagor Valar: ah sorry.
Menelvagor Valar: I was sidetalking to several people.
Menelvagor Valar: Anyways.
Eonwe Valar: Thought you were supposed to be doing homeowrk? ;}
Menelvagor Valar: Today was a pretty large games convention in the Nothern area of the Netherlands.
Menelvagor Valar: that too :P
ArPharazonV: busy bee you are...
Menelvagor Valar: but while talking to so many people that got kinda sidetracked as well :-D
Menelvagor Valar: Anyways.
Menelvagor Valar: This convention is called "Noorderspel"..
Menelvagor Valar: it's the biggest convention of board and card and other tabletop games in the 3 northernmost provinces over here.
Menelvagor Valar: I'm not sure you have such things over wherever you live, but I am pretty sure you do have those.
VardaValar1: Frequent Anime + D&D conventions around Houston area. Not sure you count that.
Eonwe Valar: We have conventions for just about everything :}
Menelvagor Valar: I could say a lot about it, but suffice it to say that if you love games, one should visit such a convention.
VardaValar1: Anything people want to get together for : )
Menelvagor Valar: D&D has a presence there yet.
Menelvagor Valar: yes*
Menelvagor Valar: but the most part is for the rarer games
Menelvagor Valar: those not generally seen in normal stores.
Menelvagor Valar: not much more to say except to go off into rambling which games and how cool they are...
Menelvagor Valar: so I guess I'll call it an end here.
Eonwe Valar: THanks Menel :}
Russ82275 has entered the room.
Russ82275: heya heya heya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Manwe :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya! Manwe, eh?
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya Manwe!
AriehnV: Aiya there !
Eonwe Valar: EA is releasing an Anthology of the BFME games: BFME, BFME2 Collector's edition, and Rise of the Witch King all in one box for $40.
ArPharazonV: you sank my island!
Eonwe Valar: *rubs eyes* Am I really seeing who I think I'm seeing?
Russ82275: yes, it's me, believe it or not ehehe
Russ82275: I cam to talk about the "new" book thats coming out
Eonwe Valar: In that case, heya and great to see you again after so long :}
Russ82275: "The Children of Hurin"
Eonwe Valar: We're in gaming right now, but it shouldn't be long before we get to Tolkien :}
Russ82275: anyone hear about it?
Russ82275: ah
Russ82275: no prob
Eonwe Valar: Aye, we've heard about it :}
Russ82275: I'll go get a bite
Eonwe Valar: Bon apetit :}
Menelvagor Valar: is it based on Narn í hîn Hurin? :-D
Eonwe Valar: LotRO: Open beta for Pre-Order people has begun, and Varda was working on geting on getting the Charter signed Friday night.
Eonwe Valar: Anything to say on that, Varda?
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: The guild came through for us with more people than we needed even. :-)
VardaValar1: We only had 24 hours in which to have it done
VardaValar1: And most of one day I had no electricity
VardaValar1: Charter members were myself, Ancalagon, Orome, Dis, Erkenbrand, and Beleg
VardaValar1: More came in:
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Merry, Angrod,
VardaValar1: and one who joined us but has not chosen a name.
VardaValar1: Dis' husband plans to join us as well
VardaValar1: If that isn't great enough,
VardaValar1: Turbine has relented somewhat on Europe, finding a workaround.
VardaValar1: Turbine will not block European ip's.
VardaValar1: Any of you in Europe who want to join us may, going through Turbine.
Eonwe Valar: Europeans would still have to buy a US version of the game though?
VardaValar1: Buy it online from Turbine, right. Download or disc
Menelvagor Valar: That still means I have to get an American version and get an American subscription?
VardaValar1: The download is very large
Eonwe Valar: So they won't make a big fuss about payment method?
Menelvagor Valar: I won't be able to download gamecards from retails in Europe?
VardaValar1: The absolutely only thing Turbine said last check was they would not block European ip's.
Eonwe Valar: It's at least a step in the right direction that they're not blocking European IPs
VardaValar1: They don't want to step on Codemaster's toes
Menelvagor Valar: good.
AriehnV: well thats good news
Menelvagor Valar: still doesn't warrant a quadruple salto while exclaiming "W00T" all the time, but good enough news.
VardaValar1: Anyway, the pre-order people have been gaming a lot
AriehnV: I still will need a new computer ... but that will have to wait a bit i fear
VardaValar1: That's my LotRO news. Mull at leisure. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
VardaValar1: /bow
Eonwe Valar: Ok, anything Non-WoW before we get into that?
Eonwe Valar: Remember the Games Page is there for you to be able to find members on games you play :}
Menelvagor Valar: Final Fantasy XII?
ArPharazonV: still busy with Total Annihilation, now in the one mission I never could finish before in previous years...
ArPharazonV: and doing rather well :-)
ArPharazonV: but otherwise nothing non-WoW from me
Eonwe Valar: My brother has FFXII as well :}
AriehnV: I had a bit on Well of souls the last few days
AriehnV: my little Peacekeeper is now near lvl 26
AriehnV: alas
VardaValar1: My two teensy Diablo 2 Expansion characters are still alive and kicking : )
Eonwe Valar: Yay :}
Eonwe Valar: Unfortunately, mine are quite gone.
Eonwe Valar: I still have my LoDME mod charts, though :}
Eonwe Valar: *chars
Arwen V1 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, on to WoW.
Eonwe Valar: Finduilas, any Valar Guild get-togethers over on Argent Dawn?
Eonwe Valar: Er, Arien?
AriehnV: Yes there was :)
mordacil has entered the room.
AriehnV: Finduilasse was helping a friend in Terokkar Forest on Tuesday, when he found himself attacked by three Arakoa
AriehnV: when suddenly a hunter sprang to his aid
AriehnV: and he said, Aiya , Finduilasse!
AriehnV: It was our worthy Ént up there :-)
AriehnV: As usual I forgot the name of the place, i just cant remember them ..
AriehnV: Flad , whats the name?
AriehnV: of the place where we met?
VardaValar1: Ent is going treeish on us again. : )
AriehnV: ooh hehe any ways , we killed some wizards together and hunted some spiritual wolves near Auchindon or what they are called .. and some of the spiritual beings around there
AriehnV: in the bone wastes
AriehnV: Unfortunately I was overwhelmed by tiredness not long after , as in fact it was monday and i had not been to bed since our wee quiz ;-)
AriehnV: this concludes my report
Eonwe Valar: THanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Varda, do you have one for WoW Uldaman?
VardaValar1: Uldaman, yes
VardaValar1: Elwing and I teamed up in the Ghostlands on our Blood Elves
VardaValar1: Then along came
VardaValar1: guild-friends Vlmo and Vaire
VardaValar1: Vlmo said he would like to join us sometime, but had to leave
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: He ceded the computer to his wife, Vaire
VardaValar1: aiya Arwen : )
VardaValar1: Vaire then took the test and joined the guild as Theodwyn. : )
Arwen V1: aiya
VardaValar1: Kragen, another guild-friend, also chatted with us
VardaValar1: Much kidding that he was outnumbered by ladies in the channel
VardaValar1: Vaire will only be playing on Uldaman.
VardaValar1: That's my report. : )
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: I was out with friends this Friday watching 300, so I was unable to see or join in whatever went on in Lothar.
Eonwe Valar: However, Elwing was there when I finally got in, and I saw Sauron shortly before he left.
VardaValar1: Fangorn and Eowyn also gamed
VardaValar1: I still want to see "300" : )
Eonwe Valar: It was pretty good.
Eonwe Valar: That concludes the Lothar report :}

Eonwe Valar: Now Tolkien Time :}
VardaValar1: (I snuck off to help start LotRO)
Eonwe Valar: Manwë, you wanted to talk about the Children of Hurin?
mordacil has left the room.
VardaValar1: Manwe does not seem to have returned from eating yet
Eonwe Valar: Guess he's not back yet, so we'll go ahead and let Arien give her topic.
Eonwe Valar: Your floor, Findarien :}
Russ82275: heya, im back
Russ82275: sorry the kitty needed attention
Eonwe Valar: (mixing names like that is something that goes pretty far back :})
Eonwe Valar: WB :}
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Manwe : )
Russ82275: ty
AriehnV: go ahead, Manwwe
Russ82275: anyways, Im pretty excited about the Children of Hurin
Eonwe Valar: Your floor, Manwë :} Bring it back polished :}
Russ82275: i have to admit that I have become a little...hmm...bored with Tolkien the past two years
Russ82275: sorry to be frank
VardaValar1: *Vanyar now sliding across the floor to polish it*
Russ82275: not bored, but maybe I took my fanaticism to the limit
Russ82275: anyways
Eonwe Valar: Everybody needs a break :}
Russ82275: I'm really stoked about this new book
Russ82275: Hurin and Turin were always some of my favorite characters
Russ82275: simply because their stories werent like Tolkien's other stuff
Russ82275: It was Tolkien's dark side
Srekal86 has left the room.
Russ82275: not that I am particularly interested in dark literature, but it was a nice break from cute hobbits and unbeatable heroes
VardaValar1: Tell Boromir he's unbeatable. He'll love it. : )
Eonwe Valar: The kings dying against balrogs/Morgoth didn't count?
Russ82275: lol
Russ82275: no, that's not exactly what I mean
Russ82275: those other heroes generally had fate on their side
Russ82275: in some way or another
Russ82275: think of them
Russ82275: aragorn
Russ82275: bilbo, fordo, beren
Russ82275: all of them
Arwen V1: the weight of time and destiny working for them?
Russ82275: but fate was always against Turin
Arwen V1: unstopable force meet world!
Russ82275: and it all stemmed from the curse on Hurin
Russ82275: even in the case of Hurin
AriehnV: Well , turin did not take his chance when he had it ..\
Russ82275: his torture was extremely dark
AriehnV: His chance was my former name giver ... aye but that was the cause
Russ82275: and very unlike any negative end other heroes met
Russ82275: i cant find in any other instance in Tolkien's writing something that deep
Russ82275: Hurin's torture
Russ82275: even though Tolkien covers it lightly, I cant recall anything as disturbing as the incest that Turin is involved in either
Russ82275: sorry if their are young eyes viewing
Russ82275: but its a very real part of the story
Russ82275: anyways, my point is
Russ82275: this will be refreshing for me as a fan
Russ82275: and I'm excited about this book
VardaValar1: He killed his own best friend by accident. Talk about a dark time.
Russ82275: exactly
ArPharazonV: *nod* new Tolkien-literature is always good to refresh your spirit, even after all these years...
Russ82275: everything Turin did turned to ruin
Eonwe Valar: An interesting contrast perhaps is the fate of Gondolin with Tuor and the fate of Nargothrond with Turin.
Eonwe Valar: Tuor gave them Ulmo's message, Turgon did not heed it. Turin spoke against the messengers who seem they would've won over orodreth.
Russ82275: Tuor had fate on his side, Ulmo.....Turin had fate working against him, Morgoth/Glaurung's curses
Eonwe Valar: So then, no matter which choice Turin made in Nargothrond, he was going to bring ruin to Nargothrond....
Russ82275: what I'm not sure is how this new version will end...the story is depressing enough, do we need to see everyone die? and do we need to see Hurin dehibilitated by grief?
Russ82275: I think so Eonwe
VardaValar1: The Hurin story will not be gone into so much.
VardaValar1: I hope it will show Turin's fate in Valinor : )
Russ82275: probably you are right Varda, but isnt the curse on Hurin the driving force behind Turin anyway?
ArPharazonV: I still hope it will say something more about Hurin's venture into Brethil after Turin's death
VardaValar1: Yes
Russ82275: well, earlier I made the comment about being bored with Tolkien....I hope that didnt sound negative. I think i should also say that my mind does still wander into the prancing pony on occasion. =)
Russ82275: back on topic...
Russ82275: Eonwe, I think your comment is right
Eonwe Valar: I don't :}
Russ82275: no matter what Turin did, he would bring ruin, no matter where he was
Russ82275: ha!
Eonwe Valar: There are points where Turin's decision could have taken his fate in another direction.
Eonwe Valar: The problem is that Turin's hubris played too well into the curse.
Russ82275: i see
VardaValar1: I'd agree with that.
Eonwe Valar: He couldn't be satisfied just living at Nargothrond, he had to be in the king's counsels once his identity was known, and then he had to have his way in those counsels.
Russ82275: so, you believe that individuals made things happen, not any sort of predestination?
Eonwe Valar: Beleg's death truly was tragic. There probably is nothing that could've changed the way in which that happened.
VardaValar1: It was a combination. Turin played into Morgoth's hands.
Eonwe Valar: Iluvatar said after the Valar had left that Men were free from the Music, to make their own way as they will.
Eonwe Valar: That's not to say that Morgoth did not have influence on Turin's life.
VardaValar1: Maybe if Beleg hadn't slipped... Clumsy elf. ; )
Eonwe Valar: But that Turin did have choices.
ArPharazonV: it is said that Turin escaped Morgoth's eye for whiles when in Doriath or Nargothrond...
ArPharazonV: and yet he still managed to screw that up
Eonwe Valar: One of my favorite parts is when Turin and Tuor cross paths at the pools of Ivrin. Turin is hunting after Finduilas, and Tuor is on his way to Gondolin.
ArPharazonV: Turin wasn't hunting after Finduilas then, he'd already gone north to find his mother and sister
ArPharazonV: not Finduilas
Eonwe Valar: Ah, well, been a while since I read it fully. I remembered they crossed at the Pools.
ArPharazonV: I think the dragon had talked him out of going after Finduilas and tracking down his family in the north instead, not knowing that they were already safely in Doriath
ArPharazonV: when he came down from Hithlum afterwards and came to Brethil, he found out Finduilas had been slain...
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that's right.
Eonwe Valar: But that is an example of choices. Had he gone after Finduilas his fate may have been different.
ArPharazonV: see? I remember something from the books, even though it's been a while since I read em... not all is forgotten!
Russ82275: I like your train of thought, but I disagree
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Russ82275: while I havnt read the Sil in a while so pardon minor inaccuracies for now =)
Eonwe Valar: Had he not been so proud, he would've gone back with Beleg to Doriath, and perhaps have come to see his mother and maybe sister there.
Russ82275: I dont know, I see a pattern in Turin that tells me that ultimately all his choices would end up bad
Eonwe Valar: This part being after Turin caused the death of Saeros.
Eonwe Valar: I see the pattern being caused by his rashness and pride :}
ArPharazonV: had he not been so proud he would not have taken the fight from Nargothrond into the open, and Morgoth would not have discovered them
ArPharazonV: but then the journey would have been more perilous for his mother and sister to come down to Doriath
Russ82275: but that's just it!
ArPharazonV: every choice had its disadvantages, it seems
Russ82275: all his choices were in a web of fate that stemmed from Hurin's curse
Russ82275: remember he tried to put him self in isolation
Russ82275: a few times
ArPharazonV: however if he had tracked Finduilas instead of his family, I don't see what disadvantages there could have been...
TwoSurlyDwarves has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Beorn : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya bearman!
Eonwe Valar: It's when his name came out that it turned bad for him in most of those instances as I recall.
TwoSurlyDwarves: hey hey
ArPharazonV: once people knew who he was, he was no longer content with staying in the shadows
Eonwe Valar: At Nargothrond,.. at Brethil...
ArPharazonV: *nod*
Eonwe Valar: It's like he could keep a low profile until his name was learned, then he pretty well took over.
TwoSurlyDwarves: like he figured they already knew who he was, so he might as well go for broke
Eonwe Valar: That may have been the curse acting too. Turin couldn't lay low for long, and once his name would be revealed it was like a giant flashing arrow pointing him out to Morgoth.
ArPharazonV: indeed, not realising that his policy of things wasn't always the right one...
Eonwe Valar: Again, his hubris played right into that. The enemy's attention is going to be immediately drawn to anywhere that enemy is losing large numbered of troops.
Eonwe Valar: Mim actually liked ATurin, but he liked his own life a little more.
Russ82275: but regardless, Turin always knew who he was, and he was well aware of the shadow that followed him. It is because of his awareness that I think proves that he was controlled by the curse
ArPharazonV: that may be a point indeed..
Russ82275: I am using the word controlled liberally here, pardon that
ArPharazonV: it was not the curse that controlled his actions, but his awareness of the curse that fulfilled it
Russ82275: thats what im saying
Russ82275: and that ultimately would fulfill the curse
ArPharazonV: yep
Russ82275: thus no matter what he chose, the curse would follow him, and ultimately his choices would fulfill the curse
Eonwe Valar: I agree that he had to have noticed things seemed to go bad when he was around, but I tend to think most people would just forsake any involvement positions of power if they saw this pattern of themselves.
ArPharazonV: he knew his fate and chose to fight it and base his actions against it, causing his rashness and pride and ultimately fulfilling the curse because of it...
ArPharazonV: quite... ironic, one could say
Eonwe Valar: More or less where I was going with that, aye.
ArPharazonV: he would go for positions of power because he wanted to fight the curse, show that it not controlled him, instead of avoiding it alltogether
Eonwe Valar: Well, sometimes those positions just fell into his lap.
VardaValar1: He was a very strong personality, not willing to be consumed.
ArPharazonV: true, but he didn't refuse them for his curse... he accepted them to fight his curse
Eonwe Valar: He was just as content fighting alone, based on his hunts while he lived in Doriath.
ArPharazonV: indeed, Varda
Russ82275: I think he was trying to avoid being involved. Remember this guy roamed around Belriand. I see this that he was trying to escape...something
VardaValar1: He very much enjoyed Beleg's company.
VardaValar1: That made him more human to me.
VardaValar1: so to speak : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, he was trying to find a place where he could live without his past. His actions everywhere he went worked against that, though.
AriehnV: Belegs death was an accident , curse or no
VardaValar1: Hurin had to see it all, everything that happened to his family.
AriehnV: Turin did not want it
AriehnV: he thought he was attacked
Eonwe Valar: Hard to keep a low profile when everywhere you go you're involved in wiping out large numbers of orcs.
VardaValar1: Aye, Arien. But one wonders if it would have happened without the curse. Would it have been as lethal?
VardaValar1: Aye Eonwe : )
Russ82275: Let me ask this. In the end, did Turin fulfill the curse on his family?
VardaValar1: Yes.
Eonwe Valar: Well, there's also the malice of Eol in Anglachel/Gurthang working in that instance I think.
TwoSurlyDwarves: most definitely
Russ82275: Thats back to my comment on "web of curses"
Russ82275: Morgoth/Glaurung/Eol
TwoSurlyDwarves: glaurung's curse was because of morgoth's
VardaValar1: hubris is a common problem in Norse mythology, almost another curse.
TwoSurlyDwarves: he was merely acting as the agent of morgoth in that
VardaValar1: That would be part of its being a web.
TwoSurlyDwarves: "ofermod" was the term they used for honor taken to the extreme and becoming dishonor
Russ82275: In the big picture, what role did Hurin and Turin play? Did they level the playing feild so to speak? Were they a literary device to let Tolkien explore a darker side, compared to his good-guy bad-guy style? Or something else?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I think that's the point Tolkien makes by pointing out some times when Turin could've made a different choice. It was hubris that caused him not to make that choice.
Eonwe Valar: Aye to Varda's and Beorn's text.
VardaValar1: Tolkien's people showed a mix sometimes. Boromir and Smeagol jump to mind.
TwoSurlyDwarves: that's because his characters were very human, and thus seem more real to us
VardaValar1: It showed a darker side, aye. How strong Morgoth's influence could be.
Eonwe Valar: Turin could arguably be one of the greatest men of the First Age, as Fëanor was for the Elves.
Eonwe Valar: Morgoth had a penchant for corrupting the best.
Eonwe Valar: or rather, attempting to.
ArPharazonV: one could say he picked his targets carefully..
Eonwe Valar: Those that couldn't be won over were disposed of if possible.
VardaValar1: The whole group of Feanorians were conflicted, generally strong.
Russ82275: That's another character that's quite different from the rest
Russ82275: Feanor...
VardaValar1: Frodo was conflicted, from the Ring.
VardaValar1: Feanor, aye.
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Russ82275: My friends have been bugging me about Tolkien names recently. This has brought me back to the books also
Russ82275: They are going to be playing the LoTRO game soon
Russ82275: and they want Tolkien names
Russ82275: heh
VardaValar1: Will you be coming in too?
Russ82275: No Var, sorry
Russ82275: MMO's are not good for me hehe
Eonwe Valar: Tell them to use the Lorebook and come up with original names :}
VardaValar1: The guild you made is on Landroval server, if you wish to send any of your friends there. : )
Russ82275: lol, WE made =P
Russ82275: and YOU kept going
Russ82275: =P
Russ82275: Eonwe, Lorebook?
Eonwe Valar: Beren's Lorebook of the High-Elven Tongue :}
Russ82275: ahhhh!
VardaValar1: Made by our Lord of Lag, Beren fka Tulkas.
Eonwe Valar: It's still up :}
Russ82275: good grief!
Russ82275: He was the young man from Argentina right? That Tulkas?
VardaValar1: He was on the forum a while back helping with a Tolkien language question
VardaValar1: Aye, that one : )
Russ82275: aha!
VardaValar1: And you can also send them to the Ardalambion
VardaValar1: and on our own Tolkien Site, we have some variants along with the names.
VardaValar1: click Tolkien
VardaValar1: Always adding more stuff
Russ82275: sorry double post
Russ82275: dont know what happened...
VardaValar1: tons of windows like the rest of us? : )
Eonwe Valar: Didn't see a double post.
Russ82275: well my buddy's question centered around Gondor and Rohan. I suggested that he choose Rhohirric, Westron, or Numenorian for help with names.
Russ82275: I cautioned him on using any form of Quenya, as I see it slipping from use by men in the 3rd age
Russ82275: however, I am having trouble finding anything solid for use of Rohirric
Eonwe Valar: Quenya would still be known amongst the learned. Would be good to use for human loremasters at the least.
Russ82275: Westron is generally translated as English, however in it's proper form it is altogether different
VardaValar1: Old English is pretty good
Russ82275: and Numenorian, is such a high language, that its probably fading from use, like Quenya
Russ82275: so basically I'm stuck in helping them
Russ82275: lol
Russ82275: what's the right term? adunaic?
Russ82275: something like that
Eonwe Valar: Adunaic, for Numenorean, Aye.
Russ82275: the rust is flying off...I think
Russ82275: =)
VardaValar1: Good place to polish up in here : )
Eonwe Valar: Helps once you hit those higher airs :}
Russ82275: ah, well I have some work ahead of me see they are movie fans!
Russ82275: dont hold that against them!
oladys 123 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: movies are nice
VardaValar1: We met many movie fans : )
ArPharazonV: as long as you don't compare them to the book...
VardaValar1: Extended helped
AriehnV: you know what really confuses?
AriehnV: in the film .. anyway it did me\
Russ82275: basically, my goal is to come up with an easy system for them to generate names. I will probably give them basic syllables to work with, and explain when and how to combine those with Westron, in regards to Rohirric and adunaic
Eonwe Valar: The game itself offers examples of stems to use for names.
Russ82275: I need to be careful to consider that even Westron had special nuances from region to region
Russ82275: your kidding?!??!
Eonwe Valar: Are those question marks of anger or relief? :}
Russ82275: ahaha! I wonder why the heck they are asking me to to it for them!
Russ82275: both!
Eonwe Valar: They probably want a name that actually means something?
Russ82275: err, could be lol
ArPharazonV: if they're *going* into the game soon, they might not know of that feature yet
Eonwe Valar: The character creation screen doesn't give stem meaninsg, only throws them out there.
Russ82275: ah
AriehnV: the discussion between frodo and gandalf about the time they live in and the fate everyone has to bear .., that conversation was completely misplaced in the film
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that's another, since it's still in open beta.
AriehnV: they did that in Moria but in fact it was way earlier.. when Gandalf tells Frodo about the ring
ArPharazonV: aye, Ariehn, they cut chapter 2 short and used bits of it in other places.. I guess they couldn't come up with a better moment to put it in
ArPharazonV: *Arien
Russ82275: my big problem with the movie was the flight to the fords
ArPharazonV: they didn't want too much exposition in one place, people would be bored...
Russ82275: GRRRRR Peter Jackson! GRRRRRR!
Eonwe Valar: My big problem with the movie was Arwen at the Fords.
Russ82275: YES!
ArPharazonV: if you want him... *cough*
VardaValar1: Arwen at the ford, taking Frodo's big moment.
Russ82275: EXACTLY!
Russ82275: sorry caps
Eonwe Valar: Aha! So Manwë and his son/herald agree! What are the odds! :}
Russ82275: but I am very passionate about that scene
Russ82275: Eonwe, any disagreements we may have had are purely around constructive discussion, so pardon if it seems otherwise friend
ArPharazonV: they wanted to weaken frodo's character and give Arwen more screentime... and there's the result
AriehnV: *In the name of Luthien the fair.. You shall not have the ring nor me * sigh
AriehnV: aye that phrase belongs to Frodo
Eonwe Valar: Nono, Manwë I understand that perfectly :} Healthy debate is good :} I was simply saying you're the first I recall making such a passionate response to me bringing up that scene :}
VardaValar1: It is a sore point with most all of us, Manwe.
Sarujil: they did disservice to frodo's strength of character throughout the film trilogy
Sarujil: i have a book with essays about the films, and one of them is all about Frodo
VardaValar1: Frodo was a much stronger person than they showed.
Sarujil: still, I think he came off better than Faramir did
Eonwe Valar: I was also commenting about our characters and their relation, seeing that they would probably see eye-to-eye on most things as well :}
Russ82275: Oh, and really I have thought about this in some depth, I think the movies really contributed to my losing interest with Tolkien
VardaValar1: He didn't even get to stab the cave troll's foot. Boromir's sword bounced off, but Frodo's went in.
Menelvagor Valar: Off to bed I run.
Russ82275: gnight sir
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Menel :}
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Menel
VardaValar1: Namarie, Menel!
Menelvagor Valar: I hope Varda and Manwe give enough light for you to read and type by *smile*
Sarujil: me also manwe
VardaValar1: I read a fun fanfic in which Faramir and his friends go sue for his character assassination.
Russ82275: lol
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
Russ82275: I will say this though
Russ82275: all of my close friends read the trilogy because of the movies
Russ82275: that is pretty cool, I tried for years to break them of the Dragonlance bad habit
Russ82275: =)
ArPharazonV: Manwe, Varda, and Eonwe? just realised we have a family reunion here...
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
VardaValar1: hehe - right on more than one level : )
Eonwe Valar: Now where's that wayward sister Ilmarë,...
VardaValar1: You lost track watching the sun, I think.
Eonwe Valar: You noticed that? :}
Eonwe Valar: I thought I was being so careful too :}
Russ82275: but after I let my thoughts be known about certain instances in the movies, my friends banned me from speaking about it! Politely of course
Eonwe Valar: Hehe!
Russ82275: really, Im not all that dogmatic about the books.....
Eonwe Valar: My friends/brother have heard my lectures about it as well :}
Russ82275: lol
Eonwe Valar: They agree to listen to mine because I let them do the same about stuff they're passionate about :}
VardaValar1: hehe
AriehnV: let me tell ye that i am officially an oddbot at work since i read fantasy and play mmorpgs :) and my every second word is something either tolkien or wow '-)
Russ82275: but when a director openly changes the most significant scene to the character development of the main hero...somebody is gonna yell! And you know who did!
Russ82275: <------------------
VardaValar1: You and us
Eonwe Valar: I had to bite back when I saw Arwen on the movie screen at the Fords.
VardaValar1: I couldn't believe she was carrying a sword.
Eonwe Valar: Barely held my tongue.
Russ82275: lol
Eonwe Valar: Oooh, now you got me on that :}
Eonwe Valar: That they actually named her sword!
Russ82275: lol!
VardaValar1: I said nothing aloud in the movies. Just watched. So many weirdnesses.
VardaValar1: That was too much. Hadufang
Russ82275: ehehe, yeah I didnt talk in the theatre, but the group I went with got an ear-full outside the theatre afterwards
Eonwe Valar: *urge to type correct spelling fights urge to not have anything to do with that name...*
Eonwe Valar: I enjoyed the movies as movies, don't get me wrong.
Russ82275: yeah, me too
Russ82275: ok confession time...
Eonwe Valar: But there are some parts that just were not right.
Russ82275: i cried when I first saw Gandalf and Frodo on idea why....Im a big silly fan what can I say
Russ82275: now dont go telling Aule and Ulmo that
Russ82275: they will never let me hear the end of it!
VardaValar1: I teared up when Frodo was in that tree reading, and I saw the Shire.
Sarujil: i do think they did a good job of visualizing the book, if nothing else
Russ82275: yeah, thats about when it hit me too
VardaValar1: This will be on the public transcript on our News page. : )
Russ82275: NO!!
Russ82275: =)
VardaValar1: Yes!
Russ82275: LOL
VardaValar1: heh
Eonwe Valar: I gasped for air when the camera started climbing Orthanc in the theaters.
Russ82275: ehehe
Eonwe Valar: Felt like I was going up :}
VardaValar1: It was a beautiful movie. I was ready to buy a hobbit hole in New Zealand. : )
AriehnV: hehe I am going up too now as well :)
AriehnV: that is up the stairs
ArPharazonV: only saw the third movie in the theaters, and was sitting way at the back....
oladys 123 has left the room.
AriehnV: Thanks for the interesting discussion, Manwe, it was good :)
ArPharazonV: still planning on one day showing all the dvds on the wall using a projector or something
Russ82275: thank you, take care
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Arien!
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien :}
Eonwe Valar: You'd need a huge wall.
AriehnV: Namarie all!
AriehnV has left the room.
Russ82275: afk one moment
Eonwe Valar: I've got all the extended collector's editions: Argonath, Gollum, and Minas Tirith sitting on my shelf.
VardaValar1: Ok, now heading for your neck of the woods again, Eonwe. I want to see that.
VardaValar1: I'll bring Sting and the One Ring : )
Eonwe Valar: hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: Well, I left them in the boxes so they wouldn't get dusty :}
Eonwe Valar: But the boxes make nice collectors too :}
Eonwe Valar: I didn't want to risk putting them somewhere they could accidentally get broken.
VardaValar1: We have a couple of figures, one still in the box.
Eonwe Valar: Wish I could've got moer of the wall scrolls though. They used to have one with a map of the Gondor/Rohan area.
Eonwe Valar: *more
Russ82275: I think Games Workshop released a set of puter figures, very detailed, for the LoTR series
Eonwe Valar: Aye, and wb :}
Russ82275: though the style is after the movies more than the books
Russ82275: ty
Russ82275: eheh
Russ82275: i forgot what "WB" meant
Russ82275: lol
Eonwe Valar: It's hard to find real good artwork that's not based off of the movies, but I think Mina Rho does well.
ArPharazonV: welcome back :-)
Eonwe Valar: Welcome Back :}
Eonwe Valar: To be more specific, artowrk of characters from the books.
Eonwe Valar: *artwork
Russ82275: so do you guys think it would be appropriate to combine Westron with either Rohirric or Adunaic for generating names in the late 3rd age?
VardaValar1: Human names in Rohan?
VardaValar1: Adunaic for Gondor?
Russ82275: or should I save myself trouble and tell my buddies who will play LoTRO to use the eh hem random generator?
Eonwe Valar: I personally don't use the RNG.
VardaValar1: They can do that too. It is according to where they are from.
Russ82275: yes
Eonwe Valar: I like to know what my name means :}
ArPharazonV: frodo, fredo, froedo, frado, frudo...
Eonwe Valar: Many names from LotR will be banned from use.
ArPharazonV: lots of variants I'd expect to see in the game ;-)
ArPharazonV: fine, then skip the first :-)
Eonwe Valar: They're supposed to ban many names at least.
Eonwe Valar: And several odder variants I believe as well.
Russ82275: well, I was thinking that I would give them certain stems from Rohirric and Adunaic, for example EO or IR, then give them Westron styles that apply to specific regions
Russ82275: and let them combine those
Eonwe Valar: That would probably work.
Russ82275: to show lineage, but also show that Westron is the most prevalant language
Eonwe Valar: I don't think any but the pickiest philologist is going to pick something like that apart.
VardaValar1: When we went in, we found many names were banned this time.
Russ82275: i see
VardaValar1: Ancalagon could not use that one
Eonwe Valar: Makes me wonder if I'll still get to be Auros.
Russ82275: yeah, I've al;ready explained that I will not give them example names
VardaValar1: I used very obscure names and got in. Bridhil, Timbridhil, Gilbrennil
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Eonwe Valar: MNostly I want it because that's my RP char too :}
Eonwe Valar: *Mostly
GilraenV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: *forum RP
ArPharazonV: I wonder if they'd allow Calion...
Eonwe Valar: I picked the name for LotRO, so I want to be able to use it :}
Russ82275: rather I will devise a system that will be simple to use and will easily be identified as a Westron name sprinkled with either Rohirric or Adunaic lineage
ArPharazonV: Pharazon'd probably not work, though ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Sounds like a good way to do it, Manwë. Make them make their own names :}
Russ82275: yeah, its a tall order....lucky they are my friends!
VardaValar1: Might help their pride in their names
Eonwe Valar: That's what friends are for :}
Russ82275: plus, I never really explored that part of the books, so this will be a learning process for me as well
FladrifV: hello all, sorry
FladrifV: I was bussy crafting my
VardaValar1: Feel free to make use of your Tolkien Encyclopedia if it helps.
Eonwe Valar: Oh yeah, everyone check Blizzard's page for the Annual April Fool's Jokes :}
Eonwe Valar: Their "new game" is especially sounding good :}
FladrifV: littlebit familiar though
Russ82275: one thing I discovered, in the brief research I've done so far, is Breelanders often took farming type names, but in Rohan Westron wasnt used that way.
Eonwe Valar: Rohan was a society centralizing more around horses.
Russ82275: so I need to be careful of little nuances like that
VardaValar1: Different lifestyles, makes sense
FladrifV: *walks back to his hill top*, good luck folk namarie
Eonwe Valar: As iks obvious :}
Eonwe Valar: Take care Fladrif :}
Eonwe Valar: iks=is
ArPharazonV: Namarie Fladrif!
VardaValar1: Namarie, Fladrif!
Russ82275: also, early Rohan names dont seem Rohirric at all....or maybe the reverse is actually happening
Russ82275: maybe Theodens time was actually a Westronization of his native language
FladrifV has left the room.
Russ82275: im not sure...
Eonwe Valar: Names from early Rohan sound Rohirric to me.
Eonwe Valar: Eorl, Felarof.
Russ82275: aye
Russ82275: but by Theoden's time, atleast the marshalls used the EO, stem with more frequency...EO meaning horse
Eonwe Valar: The language of course dates to before Rohan was founded, to when the group now known as the Rohirrim rode from the North to aid Gondor.
Russ82275: by using it so much it seems like they were trying to maintain the integrity of their language?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, it does seem to be more prevalent in the names of Rohirrim during the WotR.
VardaValar1: They, especially the royal house, had had more contact with Gondor, might say the high humans as we say high elves.
Russ82275: yes, came from Rhovannion, and before that "The North"
Russ82275: at any rate, it almost seems like there is a departure from older style Rohirric names with the inclusion of EO more frequently
Russ82275: i cant say for sure, but this seems to happen after the Dunlendish influences came
VardaValar1: Is it mostly royal house or all over?
Russ82275: mostly the marshalls yes
VardaValar1: Guess we don't have enough examples of the rank and file.
Russ82275: but Erkenbrand was an exception here too...
VardaValar1: Chatting with him earlier today ; )
Russ82275: well what was the messenger's name, who found Theoden and convinced him to help Erkenbrand?
Russ82275: he seemed like he had a relatively low status
Russ82275: but I think his name included the prominant EO
VardaValar1: That would be an example. I'll dig
Eonwe Valar: Hama's jumping to mind right now, but I'm not confident about that.
ArPharazonV: if EO was so prominent, one could wonder how often the same name would occur...
ArPharazonV: I can't help but wonder how often a name like Eotheod would be used :-)
Russ82275: Hama sounds right Eonwe, ok I was wrong there...
VardaValar1: Eotheod is the place
Russ82275: but, like i said the EO stem is used with much more frequency in Theoden's time
Russ82275: hmm
ArPharazonV: is it? hmm...
VardaValar1: Eo is horse isn't it?
Russ82275: EO or LO is horse yes
VardaValar1: sorry, the people
VardaValar1: The Eotheod were later called the Eorlingas.
Russ82275: I believe horse, LO was the old english for horse, EO was Tolkien's Rohirric version.
VardaValar1: but also the place was called Eotheod
VardaValar1: Eotheod is supposed to be Old English for "horse-folk".
Russ82275: maybe this is a case where the stem's meaning is predetermined by context. If so them in a society of "horse-breeders" EO could mean man or horse....that's a wild guess though Var
VardaValar1: Not a bad guess
VardaValar1: Look at the Elves
VardaValar1: Star and Elf
Russ82275: sorry to reduce those noble people of Rohan to Grishnak's summary "horse-breeders"...I meant straw heads =)
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: A compliment to be associated with horses.
Russ82275: depends on who you ask =)
VardaValar1: Eonwe and I are from Texas. : )
Russ82275: lol, hey I like horses myself
VardaValar1: hehe
Russ82275: my father worked at a thourobred track for many summers as a groom, I had a backstage pass...I wanted to be a jokcey =)
VardaValar1: So if anyone asks us, they are great. Even Gimli says they are good because they can also be eaten.
ArPharazonV: tell me your name horsemaster, and I will give you mine...
VardaValar1: Did you get too tall?
Russ82275: yeah...
Russ82275: and wide
Russ82275: lol
VardaValar1: aww
VardaValar1: Guess you'll have to do rodeo : )
VardaValar1: Trail riding.
Russ82275: nah, not bad, but jockeys have to be well you know, not such a burden on a horse lol
VardaValar1: Right. Even the cloth is silk for light weight.
Russ82275: ehehe
VardaValar1: Thoroughbreds are so beautiful. You did get to ride?
Russ82275: once, but with an adult
Russ82275: just a walk, not at any speed
VardaValar1: At least you got on horseback. : )
Russ82275: yeah
VardaValar1: Heard the Lipizzaners are coming to town : )
Russ82275: some are really mean though Var
Russ82275: i think its in the way they are bred
VardaValar1: Like the no breed exhausted one that tried to roll over with me on his back? He was just tired. You mean the biters.
VardaValar1: kickers
Russ82275: some horses I couldnt walk to close to the stall, cause they would reach out and bite, or slam their chin down on my head
VardaValar1: yike
VardaValar1: Funny how personality is breedable.
Russ82275: but some were very nice
Russ82275: aye
VardaValar1: Or at least temper : )
VardaValar1: Calm or easily irritated.
Russ82275: one horse, "Replay the Action" he was my favorite
VardaValar1: Smart or really dull.
Russ82275: the owners took us to one of his races in Cinncinati, he won by 14 lengths
Russ82275: it was wild
VardaValar1: good night!
VardaValar1: he didn't even need a long nose. ; )
Russ82275: lol
Russ82275: nope, Replay always placed, as far as i can remember
Russ82275: but these were smallish Ohio cicuits
VardaValar1: They must have treated him like a prize gem.
Russ82275: yeah, he had all sorts of trophies and stuff
VardaValar1: If you ever get LotRO you can ride a horse : )
Russ82275: ehehe
Russ82275: I had one in WoW, I was a pally so I had the free 40th level one
VardaValar1: Hey, I suspect the game will be around a while. Could happen.
Russ82275: lol
VardaValar1: ahhh :-)
Russ82275: I stopped wow last summer
VardaValar1: I have an elite tiger.
Russ82275: that the 60th? or beyond?
ArPharazonV: I've got a ram...
VardaValar1: Sauron flies on one of those.
ArPharazonV: and I'm an elf
Russ82275: lol
VardaValar1: You must have a great rep. : )
Russ82275: thats alot of faction points Var
Russ82275: yeah, rep, thats what i meant
Russ82275: lol
VardaValar1: Sauron uses an ebon flying mount.
VardaValar1: I played EQ too : )
VardaValar1: He's working towards an elite flying mount.
Russ82275: does Ulmo, Namo, and Aule play games anymore? with you guys?
VardaValar1: Ulmo was in WoW but stopped. Heard he was planning on LotRO.
Eonwe Valar: Ulmo was on WoW for a while.
VardaValar1: Ulmo had three level 60's : )
Russ82275: i tried to take your advice, play as a reward, but gaming really interferes with my school.
VardaValar1: Namo is now SamWise, and he is building a comp for LotRO.
VardaValar1: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
Russ82275: its not all bad Var
VardaValar1: Didn't work as a reward then.
Russ82275: not really
VardaValar1: Aule is still on EQ
Russ82275: the gator!
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: Aye, Aulegator! : )
Russ82275: ehehe
VardaValar1: He tried DAoC, but seemed to go back to EQ pretty fast.
VardaValar1: Most of our DAoC people went to LotRO
Russ82275: beta?
VardaValar1: Melkor, Orome, Angrod fka Haleth
VardaValar1: yes
VardaValar1: But it's now pre-order beta : )
Russ82275: Melkor! Oh man, thats awesome
VardaValar1: I was in Beta1, Melkor and I had a blast :-)
VardaValar1: He's always fun. :-)
Russ82275: Im not sure why, but i thought about that guy many times over the years
VardaValar1: He'll be back in April later, on vacation
Russ82275: old Melko
VardaValar1: Because he's cool. : )
Russ82275: das right\
Russ82275: or
VardaValar1: and your ex-boss
Russ82275: melkro
VardaValar1: like velcro?
Russ82275: LOL! never!
Russ82275: yeah, thats where that came up
Russ82275: lol
VardaValar1: : )
Russ82275: probably came from one of my typos
Russ82275: lol
VardaValar1: Melky : )
Russ82275: yeah
Russ82275: haha
VardaValar1: That last would be Yavanna : )
Russ82275: sheesh, Var now that goes back
VardaValar1: He'll never live it down.
VardaValar1: Hey, it's me. : )
VardaValar1: One of the few recruited by Eru : )
VardaValar1: You got most of the originals
Russ82275: You are the cornerstone in all this Var
VardaValar1: You scared the daylights out of me the first time you entered the game in Diablo 1. : )
Russ82275: lol
VardaValar1: aww thanks
Russ82275: why?
ArPharazonV: I feel so new...
Russ82275: lmao
VardaValar1: You Numenoreans are new!
VardaValar1: I had just come out of running a public game every morning, hackers, murderers that I tried to protect my regulars from.
VardaValar1: This was a brand new character, wet behind the ears, and you were a huge guy, and named Sauron.
Russ82275: LOL!
VardaValar1: If you role-played, I was dead in a second.
VardaValar1: Didn't have the hack program on that knocks hitters out of the game and to the desktop.
VardaValar1: Just be dead. Lose my ears!
Russ82275: for you new people, I had this fascination with the Dark Lord back then.....but I never really role-played him!
VardaValar1: You were delightful. Great experience. : )
VardaValar1: We still use your example - the dark ones kid their roles. : )
VardaValar1: I was hooked on Valar after that. : )
VardaValar1: The experience stuck vividly in my mind ever since. : )
VardaValar1: We had some problems at the bottleneck on the stairs. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Nothing like a healthy kick of adrenaline and the relief after.
Russ82275: yeah, what got me hooked was At first listening to Eru talk about the books....but then all the laughter and joking from you all....thats what I really enjoyed
VardaValar1: Right on. The comradeship. : )
VardaValar1: The games were just the vehicle.
VardaValar1: We all have a relationship from our names.
VardaValar1: Instant.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, my first experience with actual people was crossing paths with Aulë in the Valar channel.
Russ82275: I had my Far buddy, crazy Namo, Ulmo with all his weird stuff about daylight savings, and Aule and Osse who always gave me a hard time!
VardaValar1: Our fine son, Eonwe, here, has been doing very well. : )
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Far buddy became Var buddy. Thank you for that!
Russ82275: =D
VardaValar1: Very hard transition.
VardaValar1: I am still careful about EDST and EST from that!
Russ82275: lol
Eonwe Valar: When I say "actual people" I mean members of the Guild ;} I had come across the Games Page first :}
Russ82275: Aule said "Look Ulmo, when you look at your clock and it says 6pm, go to the channel"
Russ82275: lol
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Man, that was about 7 1/2 years ago now.
VardaValar1: Orome is still around boiling down masses of verbiage from us into a single sentence. : )
Russ82275: and the comments from Eru were classic...."alas we digress"
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: Most of what we do is digress ;-)
Russ82275: i know!
VardaValar1: so funny!
Russ82275: he just needed to come around more, to see the lighter side of the guild
VardaValar1: o my. I'm giggling.
Russ82275: without structure and discussion
VardaValar1: Aye.
VardaValar1: Kept trying to drag the poor guy in. : )
VardaValar1: He still emails at least once a year. : )
Russ82275: Eonwe, you found this place through the game pages?
Eonwe Valar: Yep
Russ82275: on a certain day in Oct?
VardaValar1: Now he runs the Games Pages!
Russ82275: ehehe
ArPharazonV: to think I only came in through warcraft 3...
Eonwe Valar: I remember thinking you guys were awefully sure of yourselves to be taking the names of Valar :}
Russ82275: it wasnt our idea!
ArPharazonV: would have liked to meet all of the Valar :-)
Russ82275: lol
VardaValar1: It really wasn't our idea. Felt like putting ourselves forward.
Eonwe Valar: After I saw Aulë and Ulmo chatting it up, as if they were actually friends (the idea of friends across the internet) helped me decide this was a good place to be.
VardaValar1: Most of us are still around, Phar : )
Eonwe Valar: Actually Phar, you probably have met a good chunk at one time or other.
Eonwe Valar: Particularly close to your joining.
VardaValar1: We gobsmacked Sam into being Namo. He finally took Sam again. : )
VardaValar1: Ulmo has come to some meetings as HeruRasa!
VardaValar1: Tickled me pink that he used that name.
VardaValar1: Lot of people had no idea who he was. : )
ArPharazonV: hmm.. yes, I probably met some of them over the years
Eonwe Valar: Let's see, I think I came across the Guild pages in October, but didn't actually come into the Chanel until Nov 6 of 99, to answer your question Manwë.
ArPharazonV: I think I've seen Eru too
Russ82275: thats an unfinished tales name? never seen it?
Eonwe Valar: *Channel.
VardaValar1: Heru lord, rasa sea I think
Russ82275: ah
VardaValar1: It was just in chat, then he made it his AIM name
VardaValar1: At least he didn't use what was it pinnipedia, how did that go?
VardaValar1: heh o well.
Russ82275: 99, shoot that isnt too long after this thing started. whoa
VardaValar1: pinniped
Eonwe Valar: The Guild had just had it's second Anniversary a month earlier.
VardaValar1: Eonwe is from way back too. This is his third name.
Russ82275: now I know we have crossed paths
Eonwe Valar: I joined Aragorn.
VardaValar1: Aye you have. : )
Russ82275: but I go away fro such long stretches its hard to keep up
Eonwe Valar: *joined as Aragorn
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I noticed that over the years, Manwë :}
Russ82275: lol
Russ82275: that has nothing to do with this place at all...its my personality, cant be helped
VardaValar1: I feel like a kid trying to show you what we've done. Look on the refrigerator door!
Russ82275: lol
Russ82275: Var, you especially should never think that
Russ82275: lets get to the nuts and bolts here
Russ82275: I was a recruiter plain and simple
VardaValar1: I want to show you our shiny pages and cool gaming stuff. : )
Russ82275: and even that was for what? 6-8 months?
VardaValar1: And we need recruiters something fierce around here!
VardaValar1: You were "second in command"
VardaValar1: You were head of the Council of Mahanaxar.
VardaValar1: You were inspiration for our atmosphere. : )
Russ82275: you Var, you have been the rock, you have been the solid steady heartbeat of this project. Var this guild wouldnt have lasted this long with out you
VardaValar1: You role-played in a fun way. : )
VardaValar1: Hey, we need rocks too. ;-)
Russ82275: thats not to say that so many others havnt contributed significantly
VardaValar1: Hannon le
VardaValar1: Absolutely!
Russ82275: just saying that Varda = Valar Guild
VardaValar1: yike
Russ82275: =D
Russ82275: it's no wonder that the Elves revere you 1st
VardaValar1: I cracked up when somebody called it Varda Guild and channel Varda
Russ82275: !!!!
Eonwe Valar: I have to concur with Manwë. Varda has made this Guild happen on many levels.
VardaValar1: Valar and Varda just sound close is all. Typo.
ArPharazonV: Varda Guild... sounds appropriate to me!
Russ82275: ehehe
ArPharazonV: I've always seen you as the leader
Eonwe Valar: But instead of giving you a lifetime acheivment award, I think we should give you... more work! :}
VardaValar1: I'd die of embarrassment, but thanks
VardaValar1: lol
Russ82275: LOL eonwe!!
VardaValar1: Sounds right, Eonwe : )
VardaValar1: I don't want to think it's time to stop!
VardaValar1: Just getting started good!
ArPharazonV: hey, you're doing such a good job at it... why stop now?
VardaValar1: Just started up the LotRO group. Very exciting!
VardaValar1: Recruiting in a Tolkienesque environment!
Russ82275: really Var, give yourself some credit =)
VardaValar1: Look up at the constellations
Eonwe Valar: I wish you all well in LotRo, though I'll be there if only intermittently. I've got WoW to deal with, after all :}
ArPharazonV: "made by Varda" written in stars...
VardaValar1: Hear people name them casually as Tolkien did in simple conversation! wow
VardaValar1: I was in WoW today, Eonwe : )
VardaValar1: Eowyn and Fangorn were busy in there : )
VardaValar1: We still have WoW Uldaman Wednesday, WoW Lothar Friday
VardaValar1: now LotRO Landroval Monday : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Merry cracked up on that one. Landroval is my level 62 Strigid Owl from Aldrassil in WoW : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: He has to reach 70!
Eonwe Valar: Glad to hear Merry's getting some game time in :}
Russ82275: Landroval??? Eagle name right?
VardaValar1: right : )
Russ82275: by golly im on fire over here!
VardaValar1: My owl has delusions of grandeur.
VardaValar1: You are! : )
ArPharazonV: hmm... what was the name of that third eagle?
ArPharazonV: meneldur?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
Russ82275: well ladies and gents, it's time to get back to the school work.
VardaValar1: yes
Russ82275: great conversation tonight
VardaValar1: Landroval was Gwaihir's brother
Eonwe Valar: Take care Manwë
Russ82275: thanks for putting up with me!
VardaValar1: Come back anytime!
Eonwe Valar: Good to see you after so long :}
VardaValar1: A delight to see you again!
Russ82275: but before I go, I will leave you all with some words of wisdom...
VardaValar1: Go be smart!
ArPharazonV: ah, Meneldor! Meneldur was a Numenorian King...
VardaValar1: ooooh wow!
VardaValar1: Phar, good. : )
VardaValar1: The original wow : )
Russ82275: In the words of the great 18th century philosopher Immanual Kent, "Sapere Aude!"....."Dare to know!"
VardaValar1: /cheer
Russ82275: goodnight all
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well :}
ArPharazonV: *applaud* goodnight Manwe
ArPharazonV: I promise not to assault your island again!
VardaValar1: Good one to start homework on!
Russ82275 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Continent, Phar :}
ArPharazonV: eh, the only difference between those is the size
VardaValar1: Hard to do after Eru finishes with you. and he called it an island. An island! : )
ArPharazonV: every continent is an island for it is completely surrounded by water ;-)
VardaValar1: When it doesn't have land in the way : )
Eonwe Valar: And every ocean is a big lake because it's surrounded by land :}
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: heh
VardaValar1: Namarie, dear friends. Let's let Phar get some rest. : )
ArPharazonV: *stretches* aye, I'm getting tired
VardaValar1: Careful with the sword when stretching.
ArPharazonV: been playing that game Total Annihiliation through most of the latter part of the meeting, finished that level I never finished before in my previous times I played the game
VardaValar1: congrats!
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
ArPharazonV: the thing is with that game, you don't have to complete a mission to gain access to the next
ArPharazonV: you just have to have played it... if you fail you get a thumbs down but are still able to continue
ArPharazonV: and in all my times playing that game, it was the only level I skipped every time because I kept dying!
ArPharazonV: so this time I'm going for the full victory *grin*
VardaValar1: :-)
VardaValar1: Namarie : )
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie! Saving and sending
Eonwe Valar: Oh,..
Eonwe Valar: *Bangs Gavel*
Eonwe Valar: Meeting Adjourned :}
ArPharazonV: :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'll be making my exit as well :}
ArPharazonV: saved
Eonwe Valar: Take care all, good night, sleep well, have fun.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.