April 15, 2007 Meeting
5pm EST (GMT - 5);
(GMT = 22:00)
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AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon-(V)
Ancalagon-(V)/Sarujil, Arien-(V)/AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Arwen V1, Eonwe
Valar, Lungorthin-(Valar)/sauronjag, Pallando Valar/Oessala/Orodreth V,
VardaValar1 (presiding), Voronwe-(V)/tristerfalm777
Three upcoming Tolkien site entries already in
Examples of loyalty without friendship
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 (3:16:18 PM) has entered the room. [times in CDT, add one hour for 4:16:18 PM
Sarujil (3:51:50 PM) has entered the room.
Sarujil (3:52:38 PM): hi
VardaValar1 (3:52:40 PM): Aiya
Sarujil (3:53:00 PM): got my pre order thing squared away
VardaValar1 (3:53:08 PM): Woohoo!
VardaValar1 (3:53:22 PM): Getting the collector's LotRO?
Sarujil (3:53:27 PM): yeah
Sarujil (3:53:37 PM): only 10 bucks more so figured what the hey
Sarujil (3:53:57 PM): now im installing a second copy of lotro on this
laptop so i can more easily transfer things at least until the 24th
VardaValar1 (3:54:02 PM): Did you have to cancel the old one?
Sarujil (3:54:08 PM): yes
VardaValar1 (3:54:11 PM): ouch
Sarujil (3:54:44 PM): i assume theyll refund the money
VardaValar1 (3:55:07 PM): One assumes they want repeat business.
ArPharazonV (3:56:04 PM) has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Pharazon : )
Sarujil: hey phar
ArPharazonV: 3000 rep until exalted with Scryers!
ArPharazonV: then I can start gathering 1344 venom sacs to get neutral
with Aldor again ;-)
VardaValar1: Can you be in good standing with both sides at the same
ArPharazonV: but I'm switching to get all patterns
VardaValar1: So you bought all you needed from one side, then switched
sides for more patterns.
Sarujil: im so glad theres no faction grinding on lotro :-)
VardaValar1: Lot of work! : )
VardaValar1: You're either for or against Sauron, or a merchant.
ArPharazonV: actually, I'm still trying to get exalted with one side,
then I'll switch sides
ArPharazonV: haven't switched yet
Sarujil: one of the reasons that i retired from wow
ArPharazonV: in other news, I took a break from raiding for a few weeks
VardaValar1: School, Phar?
ArPharazonV: since BC my old raidgroup had fallen apart, and I'm not
feeling really at home in the new Karazhan-group I'm in
VardaValar1: How about with Menel's group?
ArPharazonV: he doesn't raid afaik
ArPharazonV: not in BC anyway
VardaValar1: What is "afaik"
ArPharazonV: as far as I know
ArPharazonV: so anyway, I sollicited at the group that holds the core
of my old raidgroup, but they don't have a spot for me at the moment
ArPharazonV: and I feel a bit bad about having the one I'm in as second
choice now, and I don't really feel right in there.. the community
spirit isn't really there
VardaValar1: Guess you could ask Menel, or get going starting one for
VardaValar1: If that is possible
VardaValar1: Maybe Valar could run a sort of core group?
ArPharazonV: so I decided to break from raiding a few weeks, figure out
what I want from the endgame, and in the meanwhile help that group I'm
in now with gear and other instances
ArPharazonV: we'd need at least 13 people who can play several defined
nights a week for months in a row
VardaValar1: Do you help the Valar group like that?
ArPharazonV: so I doubt the Valargroup is up for it :-)
ArPharazonV: sure, when it's wanted
VardaValar1: You need that in any group. And they have to be recruited
for any group.
ArPharazonV: but this raiding break is doing me good
ArPharazonV: giving me more time to do instances etc, grind rep...
VardaValar1: Good to hear
ArPharazonV: and I'm going on vacation for a few days next week too, so
VardaValar1: Great timing : )
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
sauronjag has entered the room.
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
sauronjag: heyas :-) afk atm with dinner
VardaValar1: dinner is good : )
Eonwe Valar: Heya all.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Heya Arien : )
AriehnV: Aiya Varda :-)
AriehnV: and the rest who is here
AriehnV: /me waves into the round
ArPharazonV: Aiya :-)
AriehnV: sorry for not coming last week , but i was not feeling very
AriehnV: Jo, Phara :-)
tristerfalm777 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Hail! I think that's everyone invited now. : )
VardaValar1: Glad you coul dmake it!
tristerfalm777 has left the room.
Arwen V1: :-)
VardaValar1: Srekal86 asked for a reinvitation. Mine is not doing it.
Could someone else invite him?
Srekal86 has entered the room.
Srekal86: /me waves
sauronjag: got him for ya :-)
VardaValar1: Yay! The invitation worked for someone. : )
VardaValar1: Thanks Lungorthin!
VardaValar1: A whole batch just said "timed out".
VardaValar1: Elladan says hi, drowning in work, but best wishes.
sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Orome has been busy on the membership front. : )
VardaValar1: Falathar-(MoH) passed his test and is now Falathar-(V)! As of today.
VardaValar1: He is the son of Angrod-(V), who is the brother of
Orome-(Valar), who is the son of Melkor-(Valar)... Ok, couldn't resist.
VardaValar1: Aratan, second
son of Angrod-(V) has been invited to join as an MoH, now in the
process of completing the books.
wife of Borin-(V) joined after the meeting last time,
VardaValar1: as did Voronwe-(V),
after the meeting.
Arwen V1: wow :-)
Oessala has entered the room.
VardaValar1: We have three more from LotRO who would like to join, if I
can stay in long enough to complete the tests.
Arwen V1 has left the room.
Pallando Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Pallando
Orodreth V has entered the room.
Pallando Valar: Say hello to all of me. ;-)
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
Orodreth V has left the room.
Oessala has left the room.
VardaValar1: Arwen, welcome back : )
VardaValar1: Hello all of Pallando's screen names at once. : )
VardaValar1: Arien, your previous Finduilas name was for the elf, but
our new Finduilas took the name for the human. This may help vs
confusion. : )
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
ArPharazonV: probably doesn't help with AIM names though
VardaValar1: I tried to beat the meeting with the new webwork but
didn't make it quite, so this is a preview of what is about to be
VardaValar1: We are all very creative and will come up with solutions
as Arien did with Ariehn : )
VardaValar1: Finduilas and Borin
sent in articles on their respective characters.
VardaValar1: The Finduilas article
is ready to go up as soon as I get the author page mess straight : )
VardaValar1: We also have an almost finished webwork done on the next story in the Mellon Chronicles.
VardaValar1: As always, as soon as they are uploaded, mention will be
made on the News page. : )
VardaValar1: In case you didn't know, we have news pages for each
specialty spot if that is all you want, such as just articles or just
stories or just poems, etc
AriehnV: cool :-)
VardaValar1: On the Humor page
AriehnV: I am sure Finduilas will make my former name honour
VardaValar1: She is. You would really enjoy meeting her, Arien. : )
AriehnV: I am looking forward to it :-)
VardaValar1: Alatar still cannot be reached to help Menelvagor with
reaching his section of the Valar Guild server,
VardaValar1: but Farmer Maggot said he would host the pages for us.
VardaValar1: Menelvagor, Eonwe, and myself will have access to the
Humor pages then.
VardaValar1: Eonwe and I still have access to the current pages, but
don't want to tread to hard on Menelvagor's turf. : )
VardaValar1: Any further web news?
VardaValar1: Any games that were not WoW or LotRO, jump in and mention
VardaValar1: Pallando, go ahead with the Eve Online.
VardaValar1: I think he's afk so I'll pass it on.
ArPharazonV: I played more Total
VardaValar1: Pallando says Menelvagor is ready for a Battlecruiser in
Eve Online as soon as he has enough "money". : )
VardaValar1: That's the original, Phar?
VardaValar1: How far along now? : )
ArPharazonV: almost done with the Arm campaign, already on the final
world, Core Prime :-)
ArPharazonV: after that, I'm not sure what game I'm gonna play... but
I'll think of something
ArPharazonV: several candidates in mind
VardaValar1: LotRO? ;-)
ArPharazonV: single-player games :-)
Pallando Valar: The last arm mish is pretty easy, really.
ArPharazonV: I'm at lvl... 22 now
ArPharazonV: the endless metal helps :-)
Pallando Valar: that's not half of it. you can win by ushing with your
starting forces, almost. just have the adv. stuff build a big bertha in
the back while you move up. :p
ArPharazonV: well, I've got this and 2 other levels to finish first
ArPharazonV: just set up an advanced radar tower in the center of the
map so I have complete overview of the enemy base...
Pallando Valar: I've been instructed that it might be helpful to remind
folks I'm offering a free month of eve
to someone who mails me ingame froma trial account.
ArPharazonV: after I get my mohomines up I'll start cranking out
brawlers and hawks and blast em into oblivion
Pallando Valar: www.eve-online.com
Srekal86 has left the room.
Pallando Valar: Menel are on there now, and I'll be rich until I buy
menel his BC.
Pallando Valar: I'll be rich again shortly after that. :-)
VardaValar1: Ready for WoW
people? Euro report from
ArPharazonV: go ahead!
AriehnV: Unfortunatley there has been no guild mate questing again and
it makes me sad and frustrated
ArPharazonV: I think Flad and I did something, but can't remember
AriehnV: I have a feeling people are not really interested so , here
and officially i do ask your activity and support in making this guild
ArPharazonV: ah, right, we went into Durnholde together, saving Thrall!
AriehnV: tell me about it , Phara
AriehnV: I never been in CoT
ArPharazonV: so... yeah, Fladrif still being in my AD guild called The
High Guard, we joined up with a few members from it and visited the
Caverns of Time
ArPharazonV: after some initiation quests he and another were ready at
last to save Thrall from the talons of the evil Infinity Flight, and we
5 went in
ArPharazonV: I had to be main healer, and that's pretty hard with a
feral spec, but because both I and the tank were lvl 70 it wasn't as
hard as I had expected
ArPharazonV: I didn't get the leatherworking pattern I originally came
for, but we got Thrall out safe and rescued his lady friend, defeating
a boss of the Infinity Flight
ArPharazonV: and getting the quests done for Fladrif and the other
ArPharazonV: so we managed to save the timeline from being changed, and
I will no doubt go in there several times more for that silly pattern...
ArPharazonV: also, Fladrif got to lvl 69 today, 1 level to go...
VardaValar1: hehe - understood! How much we will go through for a
ArPharazonV: and that concludes my AD report!
VardaValar1: yay Fladrif1
AriehnV: If we join up together we can reach 70 faster :D
VardaValar1: Ariehn, you saw one other Valar member this week?
AriehnV: that is right, Menelvagor was on his shaman this week a couple
AriehnV: so he still comes on now and again although it is very rare
AriehnV: he is actually taking a break after this month from wow but he
will come back
AriehnV: yes , Anarore
VardaValar1: Thanks : )
VardaValar1: WoW Uldaman has a
few dedicated players.
VardaValar1: For the special Wednesday, I came in late unfortunately.
VardaValar1: Vaire [Theodwyn-(V)]
and Elwing had left an hour before.
VardaValar1: Guild-friend Consultrajan was on and we chatted a bit and
I ran all my Horde characters through, worked on some crafting and the
Blood Elf warlock.
VardaValar1: WoW Lothar
report, Eonwe? : )
Arwen V1: yay Lothar :-)
Eonwe Valar: Ein Moment, bitte.
Eonwe Valar: ok
Eonwe Valar: This week, I was questing Blade's Edge Mountains, when
storms in my area decided I needed to get off my computer.
Eonwe Valar: With impeccable timing, Varda came in as I was being
VardaValar1: yay me : )
VardaValar1: The storms in my area had just passed on to his, since
he's north of us. : )
Eonwe Valar: Later that night, I was able to come back, as the storms
had died down, and resumed questing, bringing me within 6 bars of 70.
Arwen V1: woo!
Eonwe Valar: Afraid that's all I have to report on.
VardaValar1: The tornado missed our neighborhood fortunately.
VardaValar1: That's a lot to report! 6 bars, how can you stay in here.
VardaValar1: My family has been happily WoWing a lot on Lothar.
Eonwe Valar: I'm in no hurry to hit 70, heh.
VardaValar1: It's Eowyn's fault, since she now has a WoW capable
notebook computer and lets us borrow it. : )
VardaValar1: So even if I am on LotRO, two others can play WoW! : )
Arwen V1: My priest is about to do the first instance for kara
attunement, is exciting :-)
VardaValar1: sometimes 3 of us at a time
VardaValar1: Where do you need to go for that, Arwen?
Arwen V1: First you go to outside Karahzan in Deadwind pass
Arwen V1: do the prelim quests, two of them, go to dalaran, go to
khadgar in shattrath, then three key fragments, first in shadowlabrynths
VardaValar1: You actually get to go inside the blue dome?
Arwen V1: nope
Arwen V1: pink dome..
Arwen V1: the guy you talk to in dalaran is outside of it
Arwen V1: I'm also addicted to my flying mount :-)
Arwen V1: but now I have to go get dinner, before SL.
VardaValar1: Sauron loves his too
Arwen V1: =D
ArPharazonV: make sure you have the key to SL then :-)
Arwen V1: Saving for the epic one, very very sweet
Arwen V1: I do!
VardaValar1: Enjoy the cafeteria food : )
Arwen V1: hah, thats a laugh :-) its cafeteria food! =P
Arwen V1: Okay! I'm vamoosed.
VardaValar1: We picked up three new guild-friends in Lothar who would
love to game with us
VardaValar1: Namarie : )
VardaValar1: We tried to do an instance the other night but schedules
mixed up as it was late and some of us were also yawning badly : )
VardaValar1: We will try again.
VardaValar1: At this moment, Fangorn, Sauron, and a guild-friend are
VardaValar1: Gimli-(V) phoned, said he hasn't gotten to game in weeks,
but still wants to and don't count him out. : )
VardaValar1: Any other WoW comments? : )
Eonwe Valar: Interesting, I could've sworn I saw someone with a gimli
name pop into the Valar channel the other night...
VardaValar1: We have a very busy group able to run instances and quest
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you did. He's on now, a guild-friend.
VardaValar1: One of the three I mentioned, the youngest.
Eonwe Valar: ok, just not our gimli.
Eonwe Valar: Fair enough.
VardaValar1: Most new recruits are coming to us now from LotRO.
VardaValar1: I had help scouting yesterday. While I was chatting with
one who wanted to join, Manwe-(Valar) came in.
Srekal86 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: He promptly scouted another and we gamed with both of
them. : )
VardaValar1: Heya Hiyarion : )
VardaValar1: Manwe was using the name Heseogar, trying out the game. He
was only going to be on a short while but was hooked. : )
VardaValar1: A good time and much questing was accomplished. :-)
VardaValar1: Merry came along and helped with the hobbit end of the rp.
VardaValar1: We could handle everything but one giant Warg. : )
VardaValar1: With around 12 coming in during the day, it is hard to
zero in on a report, but a number of us have several characters at the
level caps and are crafting.
VardaValar1: So, on to Tolkien!
VardaValar1: Eonwe has one topic, do we have any others, perhaps
related to your own research, stories, or reading?
VardaValar1: And yes, Borin is the name of an actual Dwarf. : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, go ahead. We may be the only two still alive here,
but we can have fun anyway. : )
Eonwe Valar: ok
VardaValar1: Phar is still here! yay!
ArPharazonV: sorry, was just finishing this mission!
Eonwe Valar: I thought we'd go with examples of friendship and loyalty
VardaValar1: That's an interesting division. Loyalty does not
necessarily require friendship.
VardaValar1: Any examples of loyalty without friendship?
ArPharazonV: Faramir and his father?
Eonwe Valar: I could name some, but I like to hear someone else's voice
besides my own every now and then.
VardaValar1: Was the loyalty from both sides, Phar?
AriehnV: Loyalty eh?
ArPharazonV: from Faramir's side, at least
AriehnV: where have i had that topic ..
VardaValar1: Arien, we have done the same topics from many angles over
VardaValar1: Want to do Balrog wings? : )
AriehnV: aye ;-) grin , i know what ye mean Phara
AriehnV: even though no great love between the two was obvious Faramir
was obedient to his fathers orders
VardaValar1: This is unusual on the loyalty topic because it is without
frienship, which tends to cause loyalty of itself.
ArPharazonV: he was loyal to his father through everything, despite the
lack of friendship between the twho
ArPharazonV: friendship (real friendship) usually brings loyalty with
it, but loyalty does not always imply friendship
ArPharazonV: political hierarchy is the clearest example... subjects
tend to be loyal to their country, to their leader, while the leader
often couldn't care less :-)
ArPharazonV: well, he likes that they're loyal, but actual friendship
can't be found
VardaValar1: The leader may also care about the country but not so much
about individuals, the same as the people.
VardaValar1: The leader of a country has to suspect anyone pretending
friendship as it may be just to gain favors.
ArPharazonV: even when it's family? :-)
ArPharazonV: especially when it's family? ;-)
AriehnV: .specially then
Eonwe Valar: Depends on if you mean immediate or extended family.
VardaValar1: Family in royalty is famous for backstabbing for power.
VardaValar1: Not so bad in LotR though. : )
AriehnV: blood creates a bond of loyalty, either a negative or a
AriehnV: with Faramir it was obvious positive
VardaValar1: Real life royals are kept apart a lot for security,
including married ones, and may have trouble feeling a natural family
bond or friendship.
VardaValar1: The Dark Lord received much loyalty. Suppose any
friendship was involved?
ArPharazonV: allright, so we have political/military relations as
examples of loyalty without friendship
ArPharazonV: anything else?
ArPharazonV: I doubt it
ArPharazonV: he ruled by fear mostly
VardaValar1: So he is an example. Fear or duty to one's place of living
Eonwe Valar: Sauron.
VardaValar1: Defense and love of home.
ArPharazonV: promise of reward, perhaps...
ArPharazonV: as was no doubt the case between Morgoth doing the promising and Glaurung,
Sauron and others being loyal :-)
ArPharazonV: "kill stuff for me and I'll give you land and treasure"
VardaValar1: Saruman used
reward promises and his Voice.
VardaValar1: Take these Nine Rings for power over others. : )
ArPharazonV: also a good example, yes :-)
ArPharazonV: but still, not really any friendship involved
ArPharazonV: after Sauron was defeated by Huan and Luthien, he feared
going back to Morgoth disembodied and instead pleaded for his.. well...
ArPharazonV: if he was friends with Morgoth, I doubt he would have done
VardaValar1: Right, that is more of the loyalty with no friendship.
VardaValar1: The underlings could not count on the understanding of
VardaValar1: Sam could count on Frodo's understanding.
VardaValar1: The movies messed with that idea, unfortunately.
ArPharazonV: yes, that's a clear example of loyalty with friendship
VardaValar1: That is a contrast
VardaValar1: Faramir could count on Gandalf's understanding but not
VardaValar1: and it seemed he looked towards Gandalf rather than
Denethor as his preferred leader.
ArPharazonV: so being able to count on understanding is a requirement
for friendship, right?
VardaValar1: Denethor knew it.
VardaValar1: It seems part of the definition.
VardaValar1: At least some understanding, forgiveness.
VardaValar1: Room to make an error without losing one's head. : )
ArPharazonV: always appreciated ;-)
VardaValar1: How about the Fellowship? At first most hardly knew the
others, but they worked together for a common goal.
AriehnV: hmm thinking of Gimli and
AriehnV: at least in the film there was nothing like friendship between
AriehnV: more the contrary
ArPharazonV: "never trust an elf"..
AriehnV: in the book it was not so strong i think even though Gandalf
asked for cooperation and friendship between the two :P
VardaValar1: It was pretty strong in the book!
ArPharazonV: reminds me of a song from a Lotr parody.... "never trust a
dwarf as far as you can throw him"...
AriehnV: ok then my memory proves *holy* again, as in having holes
AriehnV: can you fill them , varda?
VardaValar1: The movie made a number of things quite obvious, because
you could see the expressions and hear the voices.
VardaValar1: Some didn't realize how crusty Gandalf was until they
heard him in the movie. : )
Eonwe Valar: Well, it became strong. I think it was rough going until a
bit after Moria, maybe during Lothlorien they started becoming friends.
ArPharazonV: also, to cut things down, they trimmed down the dialogue
to the core, leaving the arguments quite obvious :-)
Eonwe Valar: I think I remember something from Legolas like "Why should
I have to be blindfolded?"
VardaValar1: The Council had to stop Dwarvish interruption to allow
Legolas to speak.
Eonwe Valar: Then from Aragorn,"Now shall we say,'A curse upon the
stiff necks of Elves?'"
VardaValar1: Aye, only the Dwarf was to be blindfolded, and Legolas who
was obviously not an enemy, saw no reason he should also be blindfolded.
VardaValar1: Aye. : )
Eonwe Valar: afk for a moment.
VardaValar1: We have been here for two hours. Would anyone else like to
take a break or call it a night?
ArPharazonV: still playing TA at quiet moments, I'm fine :-)
ArPharazonV: can go on for hours still ;-)
VardaValar1: About the Elves and Dwarves, the two races had enmity for
a long time, and the two Fellowship members had heard much of the old,
plus the recent trouble in Mirkwood
VardaValar1: between their fathers.
VardaValar1: They each had the honor of their own father that they were
VardaValar1: They had already softened a bit during the journey.
VardaValar1: When Gimli wanted to stay by the grave in Moria, it was
Legolas who went back for him and got him moving.
VardaValar1: But they didn't really get past their preconceptions about
the other race until Gimli made the giant leap with Galadriel.
VardaValar1: So they had loyalty and would save each other before they
felt true friendship.
VardaValar1: I'm going to break off here.
sauronjag has left the room.
VardaValar1: Namarie all!
ArPharazonV: I'll save and send
VardaValar1: Good, I am having trouble saving. You are a real
life-saver. : )
VardaValar1 has left the room.
AriehnV: Namarie! I am falling asleep here
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: back
Eonwe Valar: Suppose I'll call it here as well.
Eonwe Valar: Take care all, good night, slep well, have fun.
Eonwe Valar: sleep even
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: savin' and sendin'