Valar Guild

March 5, 2006 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT -5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon-(V) and Varda-(Valar)

Attending: (11)
    ArPharazonV, Elladan-(V)/Bior the Ythling, Eonwe Valar, Gil-galad-(V)/Xseanzee disco, GilraenV, GwaihirValar, Lungorthin-(Valar)/sauronjag, LuthienV, Menelvagor Valar, Orodreth V, VardaValar1

Before-meeting
Meeting Begins
Membership
    Sweep is winding down, about to remove disinterested people from the web pages and put their names up for new people. They will have to re-test to rejoin.
    Gwaihir Happy birthday to Gwaihir's father!
    Lungorthin
    Ar-Pharazon good PC under repair
Web
    Tolkien:
       Art 
          New section: Cave of Cassia-(TV)
          New art by Cassia and by Turgon.
       Stories
          "Captive of Darkness" by Cassia now complete
    Gaming
       WoW Lothar players
       Games page rumor
Gaming
    WoW
       WoW Lothar
          Ventrilo 50-slot from Alatar-(Valar)
       WoW Europe
    Warlords 2
    Seven Kingdoms 2
    WotR
    Battlenet Bot report by Orodreth
       Tindomeral-(V)
Tolkien
    Luthien-(V) is planning a painting of Feanor taking the ships from the Teleri. She needs an idea on what historical ships to base them off of. As a society which would you say the High Elves are most like?
After-meeting (continued Luthien's discussion, no actual after-meeting)

Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
sauronjag has entered the room.
LuthienV has left the room.
sauronjag: hey guys, can't stay :-(
GilraenV: don't mind me, I'm just trying to acquire the last 20000xp to get to level 40 >.>
Eonwe Valar: hey Lungorthin
sauronjag: have a research meeting in a couple minutes
Eonwe Valar: I'll note that you came in :}
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya :-)
Eonwe Valar: Research Meeting, eh?
sauronjag: thanks bud :-), hopefully talk w/ you guys later
Menelvagor Valar: and see ya later Joe :-)
LuthienV has entered the room.
sauronjag: grasshoppers and temperature thresholds for molting :-)
Eonwe Valar: ok :}
sauronjag: namarie
Eonwe Valar: Namrië :}
sauronjag has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Namarië even :}
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, I think I may actually have to slow down my typing to let the keyboard keep up :}
GilraenV: gwaihir is sleeping, because he has his father's birthday dinner to attend a little later on today
Eonwe Valar: Happy Birthday to Gwaihir's Father :}
Menelvagor Valar: I second that, Eonwe :-)
Eonwe Valar: We'll give it a couple more minutes to see who shows.
Eonwe Valar: Everyone here say Aiya for the roll :}
Eonwe Valar: Aiya :}
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Only Phar and I are here? :}
Menelvagor Valar: pft.
ArPharazonV: that seems to be the case!
ArPharazonV: ah
ArPharazonV: there is another...
GilraenV: eurgh. does anyone else strongly dislike the mid-30s [insert opposite faction here] who think they're uber-l33t 'cause two of them killed you while you were busy fighting a mob?
LuthienV: aiya
Menelvagor Valar: just that I am afk for 30 secs does not mean I am not here.
Menelvagor Valar: not really..
Menelvagor Valar: but then again, I don
ArPharazonV: no idea, Gilraen, I'm very seldom PvP...
Menelvagor Valar: 't play on PvP servers.
Eonwe Valar: Just trying to get everyone for the roll so I can take later :}
Menelvagor Valar: or not usually anyways :-)
LuthienV: have yet to play Wow...
ArPharazonV: *agrees with Menelvagor*Eonwe Valar: Replace "you" with "someone" and I'll agree, I dislike those types :}
VardaValar1: Aiya
Menelvagor Valar: although I must admit, I have a character that never stops wearing a PvP flag.
Eonwe Valar: Varda's here! :}
VardaValar1: Surprise :-)
Menelvagor Valar: then again, that character seldom goes anywhere but Ironforge and Blackrock Mountain :P
ArPharazonV: only times I have pvp on is when in groups or raids when most have pvp on
GilraenV: Eh, I don't have much choice... wanted to have a char on gwai's server, and it was just my bad luck it's pvp
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya Varda.
Eonwe Valar: I have a very low lvl char on a pvp server. Spent a few seconds being sapped by a lvl 60 troll rogue in moonglade, which I'm sure was great fun for him :}
ArPharazonV: or when I forget to turn it off after said groups and raids ;-)
Eonwe Valar: and by seconds I mean he did it to me about 3 times :}
VardaValar1: Gilraen, you're welcome to play your Lothar character - drag him with you ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: please do :-)
ArPharazonV: you a druid then, I suppose?
ArPharazonV: or did a warlock summon you there?
GilraenV: I meant to do that today, actually, try and get one of them past level 5... but there was a queue for lothar and none for shattered hand, so I decided to chweck my mail and ended up trying to get my 'lock to 40 ^^
GilraenV: *check, pardon
Eonwe Valar: Yes, Menel, the char in question was a Druid.
Eonwe Valar: er, Phar, not Menel
VardaValar1: Okies, let me get this business out of y'all's way, and we can go on about what else we want to do
ArPharazonV: :-D
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VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: I'm about to finish dropping the people who haven't made contact
VardaValar1: If you know that someone is active, and he's in danger on the list, please let me know
VardaValar1: The other person, too, if possible
VardaValar1: Any other Member news?
VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Ah, Eonwe says Lungorthin stopped by earlier, had to go to a research meeting
VardaValar1: So he's still with us
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VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Art and Story people have been active : )
VardaValar1: Art aka Glittering Caves of Aglarond:
VardaValar1: New section: Cave of Cassia-(TV)
VardaValar1: http://www.valar.game-host.org/varda/galler y/Cassia/caveCassia.htm
VardaValar1: Two art pieces there, photomanips to go with her story series
VardaValar1: The art is linked to the stories
VardaValar1: New art in the Cave of Turgon-(V):
VardaValar1: http://www.valar.game-host.org/varda/gallery/TurgonV/caveTurgonV.htm
VardaValar1: He had a very large backlog, so there are a lot there new this week
VardaValar1: divided into the forces of the Valar and of Morgoth.
VardaValar1: Stories:
VardaValar1: Complete: "Captive of Darkness" by Cassia
VardaValar1: includes her aformentioned photomanip
VardaValar1: This is the second in the Mellon Chronicles series, if you're keeping up with that.
VardaValar1: Some update done to WoW Lothar players
VardaValar1: Does anyone else have Web news? Menel? Eonwe? Gilraen? : )
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VardaValar1: Gaming News:
Eonwe Valar: Aside from secret plans forming for the next GPMU, no :}
VardaValar1: WoW Lothar's Friday raid was in Dire Maul
VardaValar1: Secret plans... interesting : )
Eonwe Valar: Opps did I say secret? I meant, boring, insignificant, mere trinket plans, yeah, that's it :}
VardaValar1: The original intention in DM was to go East and complete that, but Arathorn had a warlock quest in West so we attempted that, dying horribly, although we got some exploration done.
Menelvagor Valar: both boring AND insignificant?
Menelvagor Valar: must be something worth spying on.
VardaValar1: Multi-tasker, our Eonwe : )
VardaValar1: Methinks the Vala doth protest too much.
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Lothar is having more small groups during the week
VardaValar1: We have some guild-friends working their way through the books, gaming with us as we speak
VardaValar1: Does WoW Europe have any news?
VardaValar1: Menel or Phar there?
ArPharazonV: wasn't there, couldn't say... they're finishing my pc this weekend
ArPharazonV: so should be able to pick it up tomorrow or Tuesday... about time... wasted almost an entire gamecard!
VardaValar1: Ahh, that's member news : )
VardaValar1: ouch!
ArPharazonV: aye, it is, but I was a bit absent during that part :-)
VardaValar1: Good luck with that!
ArPharazonV: thanks
VardaValar1: Menel, any WoW news of any flavor?
ArPharazonV: so as last week, I might still disconnect suddenly ;-)
ArPharazonV: but if I don't, you'll be sure to receive a transcript
ArPharazonV: oh, wait
ArPharazonV: I think they opened AQ on our server this week
VardaValar1: Congratulations : )
ArPharazonV: but that's it, I guess
VardaValar1: That's big news : )
VardaValar1: Did anyone play anything besides WoW this last week?
ArPharazonV: some of our raidgroup are venturing into AQ20 as we speak... if I had my pc, I would have gone with up to 11pm
ArPharazonV: well, I started playing Warlords 2 again
ArPharazonV: one of the few games worthwhile that I can play on this pc, and doesn't need a cd
VardaValar1: Multiplayer?
ArPharazonV: not sure, it's very small, and has only limited online options
ArPharazonV: so I wouldn't recommend it anyway
VardaValar1: That's helpful info
ArPharazonV: oh, and I played Seven Kingdoms 2 again
ArPharazonV: this old pc has me playing all sorts of games I haven't played in a year or more... so nostalgic
ArPharazonV: starting next week I should be heading back into WoW... the return of the addiction
ArPharazonV: oh well, was fun to have a break for a while... even if it did take me about a month
ArPharazonV: /end rant
Eonwe Valar: Ah, good news: I got WotR to work again :}
VardaValar1: /pat ArPharazon
VardaValar1: Yay!
Eonwe Valar: Congrats Pharazon on the computer, and gl on WoW :}
VardaValar1: So it's multi through Gamespy?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
Eonwe Valar: Haven't tried it myself yet.
VardaValar1: Does that mean some of us can play with you? Heh, that's a no then
Eonwe Valar: Just glad it's working again. Haven't spent much time on anything but the tutorials, which as as fun as I remember them :}\
Eonwe Valar: *are as
ArPharazonV: tutorials are always fun...
VardaValar1: : )
Eonwe Valar: The interaction between your tutors makes these tutorials fun :}
VardaValar1: Now that does sound interesting
VardaValar1: Are the tutors Tolkien characters?
ArPharazonV: hey, that's odd.. my enter-button doesn't work in PMs in AIM
Eonwe Valar: Well, yes and no. THey're representatives of Tolkien races, but not actual characters.
Menelvagor Valar: try restarting AIM :-)
ArPharazonV: and lose the transcript? you kidding?
Eonwe Valar: An Elf and a Dwarf :}
Menelvagor Valar: still slower Eonwe, your keyboard hasn't entirely caught up yet 8-)
VardaValar1: hehe - that has potential
Eonwe Valar: Belenthrond and Varin I believe their names are.
Menelvagor Valar: save it now, save the rest later, patch em together, or send both.
VardaValar1: Does anyone have any further business?
VardaValar1: Comments on the new stuff, such as art or story?
VardaValar1: The sections such as art and story and poetry and articles have their own news pages for those for whom that is the sole interest
VardaValar1: The general News has all that those do combined, plus gaming and meeting stuff
VardaValar1: That should cover whatever you like
VardaValar1: Ohh, are we going to have a European WoW gamers page?
VardaValar1: Something to keep track of their servers, names, maybe?
VardaValar1: Shouldn't be all that long
VardaValar1: Just Primary name, server, character names to find each other?
VardaValar1: So Phar and Menel, want to try to come up with that? : )
ArPharazonV: I'll be happy to send some stuff in, not feeling up to organizing the page, though
Eonwe Valar: I could put an extra column on the WoW players page if need be, as long as they remind me they're playing on the European realms.
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Maybe you could work with Menel on that
VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad!
Xseanzee disco: heyyy
Menelvagor Valar: should be no prob.
Eonwe Valar: Even better :}
VardaValar1: Ereinion here has been on Lothar a bit recently since his comp has been behaving better, I think
Eonwe Valar: Hey GIl-Galad :}
Menelvagor Valar: although currently we only have 3 people playing on Europe.
ArPharazonV: true
VardaValar1: We have a WoW Lothar players page on our WoW page, if that helps your page, Eonwe?
VardaValar1: Did we lose Valandil?
Xseanzee disco: yea! my computer hasnt crashed once in like 72 hours. i think its just setting me up for a big one.
VardaValar1: You're feeling like California? : )
VardaValar1: Good luck, Gil!
Xseanzee disco: i was trying to think of an earthquake joke lol.
VardaValar1: : )
ArPharazonV: we more like.. lost Fladrif, he's on "sabbatical" for a few months
ArPharazonV: taking a break from WoW
VardaValar1: But we can hope he'll return
VardaValar1: We still have Valandil then?
ArPharazonV: sure, he'll return, I still talk to him daily
Xseanzee disco: i've actually lived in acalifornia my whole life and never experienced an earthquake.
ArPharazonV: but not any time soon, probably
VardaValar1: He can also dive into the Tolkien end for a few minutes if he has time
VardaValar1: We get a lot of ex-gamers there
VardaValar1: Gil, you mean nothing more exciting than a minor shaking?
Xseanzee disco: i mean never even noticing one even if one had occured :-)
VardaValar1: ohh, did I yet tell that Alatar set up WoW Lothar and his DAoC group with Ventrilo?
Xseanzee disco: even though word is we get hundreds a day.
VardaValar1: 50-slot
VardaValar1: They would be very small tremors then, staving off a big one : )
VardaValar1: Any further business or comments?
ArPharazonV: true
ArPharazonV: smaller disasters often help relieve the pressure, preventing major quakes
ArPharazonV: same thing with volcano eruptions
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: There's some argument not to rebuild in New Orleans, but to relocate to higher ground
VardaValar1: Maybe they should go study the Netherlands : )
VardaValar1: Any Tolkien topics?
ArPharazonV: learning from mistakes so swiftly on such a large scale? that doesn't sound like the normal masses these days...
ArPharazonV: perhaps there's hope for humanity left
VardaValar1: A bunch of them moved permanently elsewhere
VardaValar1: We have them living with us in Texas : )
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VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Luthien has something for us to consider.
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Luthien : )
LuthienV: Thanks :-)
LuthienV: I'm planning a painting of Feanor taking the ships from the Teleri...
VardaValar1: Dramatic one there
LuthienV: to do it i kind of need an idea on what historical ships to base them off of
Menelvagor Valar: "The Batavia" :-)
VardaValar1: Have you read the descriptions of the Teleri ships yet?
Menelvagor Valar: with some modifications and white, of course :-)
LuthienV: I was looking for it
LuthienV: i know they're white and have oars..
LuthienV: but as a society which would you say the High Elves are most like?
VardaValar1: Which books do you have available to help you look it up?
ArPharazonV: reminds me of a drawing I wanted to do once.. Fingolfin en his host standing on the coast, seeing the ships burn in the distance... but since my drawing skills are horrible, I gave up that idea
LuthienV: Thats part of my problem,I only have the Silmarillion
ArPharazonV: *and
VardaValar1: That's where we might help
VardaValar1: There is a painting of who might be Maedhros watching the ships burn
VardaValar1: Different one's reactions like that is interesting
VardaValar1: Ok, so you need references to the ships from other places than the Sil
LuthienV: Yes : )
VardaValar1: ok, book digging time, guys : )
VardaValar1: The Sil should have told you more than that, anyway
VardaValar1: Want us to start there?
LuthienV: unfortunatly its been along time since i've read it
VardaValar1: Index helps : )
Xseanzee disco: brb essay writing time
VardaValar1: Index: Alqualonde looks helpful
VardaValar1: "Kinslaying"
VardaValar1: skipping to Unfinished Tales
VardaValar1: When in doubt between details, go with Silmarillion
LuthienV: the Alqualonde index reference was really helpful
LuthienV: i completely missed that one
Bior the Ythling has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
VardaValar1: We're looking up info on the swanships of the Teleri
VardaValar1: Luthien needs it
VardaValar1: Also any suggestions of what civilization the Noldor might look like
Eonwe Valar: Look up Losgar in the back. Any page before and including its first reference is likely to have info on the ships themselves.
VardaValar1: Noldor were mostly black-haired and gray-eyed, very tall, craftsmen
Eonwe Valar: Tirion is a prime example of Noldor civilization in AMan.
Bior the Ythling: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: *Aman
Eonwe Valar: Well, any page between that and the Coming of the Elves anyway.
VardaValar1: Don't see Losgar
Bior the Ythling has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Strange. It's the place Fëanor burns the ships.
ArPharazonV: aren't the ships at Alqualonde based on the ships the Teleri used to get to Valinor?
VardaValar1: Elladan said he had to run act as a priest in WoW, only one available
ArPharazonV: if such, would additional hints and descriptions not also be found at the part of the story where they first do so?
VardaValar1: The Teleri also used them to take Eonwe and crew to fight Morgoth's forces
Eonwe Valar: 339 in the Index for Losgar reference, Houghton Mifflin edition.
Eonwe Valar: pg 90 in same edition for first mention of Losgar.
Eonwe Valar: The ships were white
VardaValar1: got it
Eonwe Valar: Chapter: The Flight of the Noldor
Eonwe Valar: Chapter 9
VardaValar1: Sil 421 Ballantine index
VardaValar1: Losgar is where they burned the ships, at the mouth of the Firth of Drengist
Eonwe Valar: Of Eldamar , Chapter 5, tells the ships were shaped like swans
VardaValar1: The Teleri called themselves the Lindar, the Singers. Teleri was a mildly insulting name for their being last to Valinor
LuthienV: think they are shaped like literal swans, or more like the old viking type ships, they're swan like
LuthienV: ?
ArPharazonV: literal swans, no? I recall references to beaks of gold etc?
Eonwe Valar: I believe the words used were "in the likeness of swans"
ArPharazonV: or am I confusing it with the ships at Lorien now?
LuthienV: no, they are described as having beaks of gld and jet
Eonwe Valar: beaks of gold etc, aye Phar
LuthienV: gold*
VardaValar1: UT: Firth of Drengist: "the long firth piercing Ered Lomin, between Lammoth and Nevrast
ArPharazonV: and beaks of jet as well?
ArPharazonV: *eyes
LuthienV: didn't see a mention of eyes
ArPharazonV: curses, must have Silm around here somewhere...
ArPharazonV: I vividly remember the eyes
ArPharazonV: brb, I'm going to fetch the book
VardaValar1: UT: "merciless assault upon the Teleri"
ArPharazonV: "For that was their city, and the haven of their ships; and those were made in the likeness of swans, with beaks of gold and eyes of gold and yet."
VardaValar1: gold and jet
ArPharazonV: ...right, jet, sorry
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Thanks. Which chapter?
ArPharazonV: 5, Of Eldamar
ArPharazonV: same chapter, same section even, as Eonwe referenced
ArPharazonV: last page in my book, with a description of Alqualonde
ArPharazonV: last page in the chapter, obviously
VardaValar1: Moved to BoLT 1
VardaValar1: Mentions Haven of the Swanships
VardaValar1: Also calls it Swanhaven
VardaValar1: You want the burning though, not the theft. Onwards
VardaValar1: "the white fleets came shimmering home"
VardaValar1: The Noldoli take the ships and "they oared them with a great multitude of oars towards the seas."
LuthienV: they sound alot like the viking ships
LuthienV: does it give any mention to sails?
LuthienV: I've been looking for a reference to sails, haven't found one yet
ArPharazonV: ...good question, actually... the first ships were pulled by seabirds, the second generation of ships...not sure
ArPharazonV: I know that Numenorean ships had sails, but before that...
VardaValar1: That was under the "Flight of the Noldoli"
VardaValar1: I believe I read of the Teleri sailing
VardaValar1: but I'm in the wrong book for it
ArPharazonV: the Teleri in BoLT were the later Vanyar, no?
ArPharazonV: with the later Teleri being the Solosimpi?
LuthienV: "but most of all they sailed in their swift ships"
VardaValar1: Teleri are called the Solsimpsi in this chapter in BoLT 1 , aye
VardaValar1: Thanks Luthien. That sounds like my memory
LuthienV: does that necessarily mean the ships had sails though?
VardaValar1: Suggests it pretty strongly
ArPharazonV: perhaps it would say "rowing" instead ;-)
VardaValar1: Viking ships had both oars and sails
ArPharazonV: "but most of all they rowed in their swift ships"
VardaValar1: Still digging. It's very scattered
LuthienV: yes, thats what I pictured them as resembling
ArPharazonV: well, even the Numenoreans still rowed if they had no wind... so no doubt that the Elves could row too, with or without sails
VardaValar1: "the Feanorians, sailing away in the ships..."
VardaValar1: Report came back to Manwe:
VardaValar1: eagle says he winged "over the black seas and over the unkindly lands.." "...saw...a fleet of white ships that drifted empty in the gales, and some were burning with bright fires,..."
LuthienV: is that from the Sil?
VardaValar1: It's a saying after that by Elves and Men "that those burn their boats who put all hope from them of change of mind or counsel."
VardaValar1: No, I'm in BoLT 1
VardaValar1: You guys were doing Sil
VardaValar1: This last was from "The Tale of the Sun and the Moon"
LuthienV: thanks, wanted to know for reference purposes
ArPharazonV: gotta love those sayings... reminds me of the burned corpses originated from the battle at Moria
ArPharazonV: they're everywhere, yet you never hear them used in lotr ;-)
Eonwe Valar: No reason for Gimli to say "He was a burned Dwarf!" :}
ArPharazonV: true
VardaValar1: It goes on about this disaster with the ships showed they had zero hope of relighting the Trees
Eonwe Valar: Although, if the movies had found a way to accurately get that into a scene, that would've been a real nod to lore.
VardaValar1: from that source anyway
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe : )
Eonwe Valar: Pardon my long non-talking. I'm really working on a program and only checkign here during download/compile/run moments.
ArPharazonV: a bit absent too, messaging with Menel over ogame, and checking 3 forums at once...
Eonwe Valar: Topic is interesting though :}
Orodreth V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Orodreth
VardaValar1: Digging up info on the swanships of the Teleri
VardaValar1: What did they look like?
VardaValar1: This is for Luthien's painting of when they were burned
LuthienV: want to be as true to Tolkien as possible
VardaValar1: Orodreth's bot report:
VardaValar1: Orodreth V: all I've seen with my bot (but I havn't looked at everything) is Tindomerl(sp)-V on either wc3 or tft
VardaValar1: Thanks, Luthien : )
ArPharazonV: tsk!
VardaValar1: She has the Sil, but no other books
LuthienV: Tindomerel is my WC3 name btw
ArPharazonV: Menelvagor and I were in RoC this week!
VardaValar1: Orodreth V: Tindomerel-V on TFT, yup
ArPharazonV: I even waved to your bot!
VardaValar1: Orodreth V: But with my computer's reliability recently... >\Orodreth V: And it'll be down (and myself gone) from Wednesday - Sunday.
VardaValar1: Reminds me, I need to run my Diablo characters through again : )
VardaValar1: Anyway, any references to what the ships looked like are appreciated
LuthienV: unfortunatly mine died long ago
Orodreth V: Yarr.
VardaValar1: Most of mine did too
Orodreth V: Here I am.
LuthienV: yes, what you've found so far has been very helpful
VardaValar1: Three accounts left
VardaValar1: We are trying to dig through this book pile
VardaValar1: The references are very scattered
Orodreth V: The bot is up right now but I can't, for some reason, access it.
VardaValar1: ouch, Orodreth!
Orodreth V: There.
Orodreth V: /me whaps the systray
VardaValar1: The boats would be very beautiful, white, many-oared
VardaValar1: They apparently had sails, but we haven't found a description as how many masts or other details
LuthienV: yes, there is mention to them being the most beautiful ships ever built
VardaValar1: Eyes of jet, beaks of gold
LuthienV: unfortunatly I have to go, thanks for the help, now i can start sketching out my ships
VardaValar1: It's also the cause of the Hiding of Valinor
LuthienV: If you come across any
VardaValar1: Maybe we can leave more notes for you in the Transcript
LuthienV: that would be nice : )
VardaValar1: Tons of books left to go through
LuthienV: I always considered it one of the most important events, thats one of the reasons i want to do it
VardaValar1: Who wants to collect the notes on the swanships from around the books for a descriptive article?
VardaValar1: It is, and a wonderful subject
VardaValar1: Thank you, Luthien!
LuthienV: Namarie
LuthienV: and thanks again for the help
VardaValar1: Good luck with it : )
Eonwe Valar: Take care Luthien
LuthienV has left the room.
VardaValar1: It also brought about the need for the golden rope pathway of Orome, also called the Rainbow
VardaValar1: A lot came of this event.
ArPharazonV: Olore Malle or something? completely out of memory
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Xseanzee disco: bad news, my brother was just playing WoW, and it crashed on him.
Xseanzee disco: thought it was fixed. blast!
Menelvagor Valar: off to bed, Namarie.
VardaValar1: also called Ilwaran, the Bridge of Heaven
VardaValar1: ouch
Eonwe Valar: Sorry to hear that, and heya Gwaihir
VardaValar1: Bye Menel
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Menel
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
GwaihirValar: hello; but I have to go shovel for a bit... be back when I can ;-)O
ArPharazonV: check your memory, Gil-Galad...
Orodreth V: Pah.
ArPharazonV: it happened to me a lot, and it started 2 months of checking and crashing and sending the pc away for testing...
Orodreth V: Eve's been going up and down all the past couple days. Memory leak server-side.
VardaValar1: It says here that the Olore Malle is Lorien's doing
ArPharazonV: but tomorrow or the day after it should all be over!
Orodreth V: I lost the ship I had been using as a backup waiting for my new one to be delivered. >\
VardaValar1: BoLT 1 " The Hiding of Valinor"
VardaValar1: ack, Oro!
ArPharazonV: okz, gotta go as well
VardaValar1: The Olore Malle, Path of Dreams, was very winding, made as a delicate thing by Lorien
VardaValar1: Namarie, Phar
Orodreth V: The GM's'll reimburse me, but they have so many petitions to go through that it'll take a month. :p
ArPharazonV: hmm... remember that failing enter-button in IM?
VardaValar1: Orome made his golden rope from the hair of Vana the Fair
ArPharazonV: can't click "send" either.. it's grayed out or something... very odd
VardaValar1: golden hair
ArPharazonV: oh well
ArPharazonV: gonna save and send
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar : )
ArPharazonV: and as you noticed, made my rp-post
ArPharazonV: added in a bit about the easterlings :-)
VardaValar1: Orome's came after Lorien's
VardaValar1: Ahh cool : )
VardaValar1: Will have to check that one out!
ArPharazonV: it's written before your most recent one..
ArPharazonV: you sure you haven't read it?
ArPharazonV: oh well, no matter
ArPharazonV: saved
ArPharazonV: heheh... 207 spam-messages...
ArPharazonV: serves me right for not checking my spam for 2 weeks
VardaValar1: oh ok. I've read that one
VardaValar1: I was just looking. Thought you meant you just typed it
VardaValar1: heh - spam
Eonwe Valar: My next post may or may not gloss over the time in Erebor.
Eonwe Valar: Can't think of much other than "We Came, we saw, we got information."
ArPharazonV: will it, Eonwe? be sure to don't go too fast... the Calaron-saga has a major event occurring at that time
ArPharazonV: as Varda knows :-)
VardaValar1: Gmail helps a lot
ArPharazonV: aye, but I've had a normal message going to spam once or twice
VardaValar1: So how fast can we go?
ArPharazonV: so made a habit of checking all my spawn
VardaValar1: ohh, that's miserable
ArPharazonV: *spam
Eonwe Valar: Well, the trip to Erebor should be that long. Dale is right there.
Eonwe Valar: At least according to my Atlas.
VardaValar1: If you guys find places on our site where your email is still raw, tell me
ArPharazonV: are we leaving immediately the first day?
ArPharazonV: *the following day
VardaValar1: I try to write NOSPAM or (AT) on it
VardaValar1: I found two on my own. Causes spam
Eonwe Valar: I expect to be in and out of Erebor in a day's time or less, aye.
Orodreth V: Well, on to eve to see if that little punk deadi has my rifter ready. :p
VardaValar1: Any Noldor scouts going to be talked about?
ArPharazonV: no, I mean, leaving from Dale to Erebor
VardaValar1: Later, Oro : )
Orodreth V: Varda/Eonwe, you heard anything from other Eve playing memebers.
Eonwe Valar: I haven't no Orodreth
Orodreth V: I remember one expressed interest, and someoene else mentioned they played.
Eonwe Valar: None that come to mind at least.
VardaValar1: I try to mark it down on the Activity page
Orodreth V: k
Eonwe Valar: It's the night of our time in Dale right now. We will be leaving in the morning, aye.
VardaValar1: but the game end isn't really my priority
VardaValar1: Mine's more on the Tolkien pages
ArPharazonV: ok
VardaValar1: Everyone keeping Eonwe up to date? : )
ArPharazonV: so that day we'll go to Erebor, and back the same day?
Eonwe Valar: More or less, that's how I see it, Phar.
ArPharazonV: ok
Eonwe Valar: According to my Atlas, it's not going to be a long trip, especially on horseback.
ArPharazonV: in that case, my next post will be another Calaron-post, the next morning
ArPharazonV: that night, the battle happens I discussed a while back with Varda
VardaValar1: Checked - you're the only Eve on 2006 Activity page
Orodreth V: k
ArPharazonV: about time it happens... I've been preparing this for a long time ;-)
VardaValar1: Most didn't say what they played
Orodreth V: whooohoooo. Reports inticate memory leak is fiiiiiiixed!
VardaValar1: Yay!
ArPharazonV: grats!
Orodreth V: /me dances around a little
Orodreth V: ...now if I can just get a ship :p
ArPharazonV: sent
ArPharazonV: hijack one!
VardaValar1: Mandos and Fui made the Road of Death: Qalvanda
VardaValar1: Oh, some elves can travel the Rainbow path, very unusual though
ArPharazonV: ok, I'm outta here now
VardaValar1: I think that was dropped tho
VardaValar1: Bye!
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well
ArPharazonV: Namarie all!
ArPharazonV has left the room.
VardaValar1: It's really hard to keep to one subject when looking up this stuff. So much comes up that looks interesting too.
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: The references seem very slight in BoLT 2, not detailed enough to help an artist.
VardaValar1: I'm probably missing something : )
VardaValar1: BoLT 2 is not aimed at that time period though
VardaValar1: The next one, The Lays of Beleriand, are pretty much after that time period too
VardaValar1: ah here. The Flight of the Noldoli in the Lays
VardaValar1: Under Poems Early Abandoned
VardaValar1: Hmm, I have a blue mantle : )
Eonwe Valar: cool :}
VardaValar1: Teleri are called the Foam-riders
VardaValar1: Poem ends early, at Feanor's oath laid on his sons
VardaValar1: Lots of mentions of the Kinslaying.
VardaValar1: Mainly the fact of the killings
VardaValar1: Their effect on history, relationships
VardaValar1: Swanhaven, Alqualonde, Copas Alqalunten
VardaValar1: There's a comment about Gwindor appearing aged as might a mortal, from his torments and labors while captive
VardaValar1: If such stress can cause the appearance of aging, that might help explain Cirdan's appearance of having aged some
VardaValar1: Perhaps the stress of sending all those others to Valinor while keeping back himself?
VardaValar1: Sunk now. Don't have the rest of HoMe
VardaValar1: The Sil seemed to have the most in descriptive detail so far.
VardaValar1: Swanfleet aka Glanduin not to mixed up with the swanships. : ) Place of many swans in the lower area of the river of this name.
VardaValar1: Helcaraxe, Grinding Ice is a good landmark too, since the burning is just before that crossing.
VardaValar1: Silmarillion: "Of Eldamar"
VardaValar1: First ships made by Elves, the Teleri:
VardaValar1: The Teleri were to travel from Tol Eressea, the Lonely Isle, to Valinor.
VardaValar1: Ulmo sent the Teleri's friend, Osse, who taught them the craft of ship-building
VardaValar1: After they built their ships, Osse gave them a parting gift of many strong-winged swans.
VardaValar1: These pulled the "white ships of the Teleri over the windless sea".
VardaValar1: If they had sails, they had no wind to fill them.
VardaValar1: They lived on the shore of Valinor.
VardaValar1: While they could and sometimes did go inland, "most of all they sailed in their swift ships on the waters of the Bay of Elvenhome,
Eonwe Valar: They probably didn't have sails then
VardaValar1: or walked in the waves upon the shore with their hair gleaming in the light beyond the hill."
Eonwe Valar: but then it says they "sailed" so it's kind of contradictory :}
VardaValar1: So after living in Valinor, they did have sails. This was later
VardaValar1: Progress
Eonwe Valar: ah, ok
VardaValar1: Must have had wind there.
Eonwe Valar: so Valinor's shores had wind.
VardaValar1: They had plenty and plenty of jewels to work with, given them by the Noldor.
VardaValar1: They won many pearls for themselves from the sea
VardaValar1: They made their halls and mansions of pearl
VardaValar1: Perhaps the white of the swanships they were then making was made with pearl?
VardaValar1: This place of pearl mansions is the haven of their ships
VardaValar1: "and those were made in the likeness of swans, with beaks of gold and eyes of jet."
VardaValar1: (Most of these goodies were quoted earlier.)
VardaValar1: Feanor's hair was "raven-dark".
VardaValar1: A few days ago I ran across a spot that said Morgoth had corruped Ungoliant
VardaValar1: found it again
VardaValar1: Sil, "Of the Darkening of Valinor"
VardaValar1: "in the beginning she was one of those that he corrupted to his service."
VardaValar1: "she disowned her master" ie Melkor
VardaValar1: That seems to be why "she hungered for light and hated it"
Eonwe Valar: interesting
VardaValar1: It was this time in a dark ravine that "she took shape as a spider of monstrous form"
VardaValar1: So she apparently did not start as a spider
VardaValar1: As a spider is when she "sucked up all light that she could find,
VardaValar1: and spun it forth again in dark nets of strangling gloom..."
VardaValar1: But she ran out of light
VardaValar1: Morgoth used this to gain a hold over her, so that she could hide him in darkness and go to where the light was that she wanted
VardaValar1: She was too afraid to go alone. Both were needed.
VardaValar1: The main events of the Kinslaying and Burning are in Sil "Of the Flight of the Noldor".
VardaValar1: Feanor is afraid that he will die if the Silmarils are broken.
VardaValar1: He thinks he would be first of the Eldar in Aman to die.
VardaValar1: Instead of reassuring him that it would not kill him, Mandos says, "Not the first."
VardaValar1: It's a warning about his father, not addressing what Mandos may have considered the nonsensical part of the statement.
VardaValar1: But it may have been a real fear for Feanor, that he would die of grief.
VardaValar1: Morgoth took the Silmarils and the jewels of Formenos, the place of Finwe, killing Finwe to reach them, as he was the only one who ran not.
VardaValar1: But plenty of other jewels would still have been around.
VardaValar1: The Teleri's great piles that they had decorating the places under the waves, and their pearls, for instance.
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
VardaValar1: Ah hah, another name for Morgoth.
VardaValar1: Ungoliant calls him "Blackheart".
Orodreth V: As if he didn't have enough. :p
Eonwe Valar: aye :}
VardaValar1: Aye : )
VardaValar1: I found Eonwe's reference to a craft the Teleri had that the Noldor did not.
VardaValar1: It suddenly hit Feanor that he couldn't transport all those elves without a fleet of ships.
VardaValar1: He just hadn't thought ahead.
VardaValar1: "yet it would need long time and toil to build so great a fleet, even were there any among the Noldor skilled in the craft."
VardaValar1: He thinks he can talk his Teleri friends into handing over a fleet.
VardaValar1: Just hand it to him, free.
VardaValar1: To be fair, he hoped they would join him.
VardaValar1: The Teleri were sorry their Noldor friends were leaving, and would rather dissuade than aid.
VardaValar1: They would not lend a ship nor even help build one, against the will of the Valar.
VardaValar1: The Teleri wanted no other home, and no lord but Olwe.
VardaValar1: They believed that all of Morgoth's hurts would be redressed by the Valar. They had faith.
VardaValar1: Feanor calls them ungrateful, that they would still be living in huts by the sea without the Noldor.
VardaValar1: The Teleri said they renounced no friendship, but the Noldor didn't give the Teleri the ships
VardaValar1: They learned the craft from the Lords of the Sea, not the Noldor.
VardaValar1: Ah hah! Why the ships are white:
VardaValar1: "the white timbers we wrought with our own hands"
VardaValar1: They definitely have sails!:
VardaValar1: "the white sails were woven by our wives and our daughters"
VardaValar1: "these are to us as are the gems of the Noldor: the work of our hearts, whose like we shall not make again."
VardaValar1: Feanor waits for reinforcements, then takes the ships.
VardaValar1: against resistance
VardaValar1: swords, which the Noldor were very good at using
VardaValar1: The Teleri drove back the vanguard of Feanor three times, until reinforcements of the rest of Feanor's followers arrived on a full-blown fight
VardaValar1: Most of the mariners were slain.
VardaValar1: Most of the Teleri had only "slender bows"
VardaValar1: and were less strong.
Eonwe Valar: They should've taken up smithing and swung a giant hammer :}
VardaValar1: "Then the Noldor drew away their white ships and manned their oars as best they might, and rowed them north along the coast."
VardaValar1: These guys probably don't know how to use sails, but can figure out how to work paddles as they probably used canoes and such.
VardaValar1: Olwe called on Osse, but Osse was not permitted by the Valar to hinder the Noldor's leaving by force
VardaValar1: But his wife Uinen wept at the deaths of the mariners
VardaValar1: and the sea rose in wrath against the slayers.
VardaValar1: Remember, her hair bound the shore waters to peace. If she withdrew that...?
VardaValar1: There's lots more, such as the Prophecy of the North, Feanor saying go on anyway, and Finarfin returning to Valinor.
VardaValar1: The Noldor come upon the Helcaraxe, and that's when they have an even worse split.
VardaValar1: A major cause of the burning.
VardaValar1: Feanor and his sons seize all the ships and depart suddenly.
VardaValar1: A wind sprang up from the north-west.
VardaValar1: So we have a wind actually mentioned!
VardaValar1: Feanor took all he deemed loyal, leaving Fingolfin and his followers at the Helcaraxe.
VardaValar1: Feanor feared treachery, and wound up committing it.
VardaValar1: Feanor lands at the mouth of the firth which was called Drengist and ran into Dor-lomin.
VardaValar1: Feanor says that since the ones they left had cursed his name, let them whine their way back to Valinor, and the ships were to be burnt.
VardaValar1: Only Maedhros stood aside.
VardaValar1: "So in that place which was called Losgar at the outlet of the Firth of Drengist ended the fairest vessels that ever sailed the sea,
Orodreth V: /me pops in
Orodreth V: /me pops out
VardaValar1: in a great burning, bright and terrible."
VardaValar1: Hi Oro : )
VardaValar1: "And Fingolfin and his people saw the light afar off, red beneath the clouds;"
VardaValar1: "and they knew that they were betrayed."
VardaValar1: "This was the firstfruits of the Kinslaying and the Doom of the Noldor."
VardaValar1: I'll stop now. : )
VardaValar1: That gives two major word-paintings though.
VardaValar1: Maedhros stands to the side, disapproving, as the others burn the ships.
VardaValar1: Fingolfin and his people see the light of the ships' burning against the clouds and know they are betrayed.
GilraenV: Well, I'm off; it's very late. Namarie all :-)
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well
VardaValar1: I'm off now too :-)
VardaValar1: Good night to you all!
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well :}
GilraenV has left the room.
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