June 25, 2006 Meeting
5pm EST (GMT - 5);
(GMT = 22:00)
Back to News
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon-(V),
ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, FinduilasV, GilraenV, LuthienV, Menelvagor
Valar (presiding), VardaValar1
Got together early, some WoW chat
Ar-Pharazon new monitor
Gilraen and Gwaihir: The
Upcoming Wedding next Sunday
Story page: new postings with two from Cassia and
Siobhan, and one from Jay of Lasgalen.
World of Warcraft:
Argent Dawn server. Finduilas joined the server. Fladrif, Valandil,
Ar-Pharazon play there
Lothar server. No report from Uldaman group, mostly a lot of lowbie
playing. Elwing is highest with 33.
Games Page Update
FinduilasV: Heroes: who is a
hero in what sense and why?
(16:27:09) You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
(16:27:10) LuthienV has entered the room.
(16:27:13) ArPharazonV has entered the room.
(16:27:15) GilraenV has entered the room.
(16:27:17) Srekal86 has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar (16:27:23): Aiya
Srekal86: long time no chat.
ArPharazonV: I'll be back in 30 minutes
ArPharazonV: we're in Zul!
Menelvagor Valar: it's a bit early, but sooner is always better than
ArPharazonV has left the room.
Srekal86: thanks for the invite :-) I think Varda has been 'forgetting'
me the last few months, heh.
Menelvagor Valar: no prob, mate
GilraenV: (I am here, just in WoW, so any non-replies are not personal)
LuthienV: what do you play Gil?
LuthienV: what do you play Gil?
LuthienV: ....weird...anyone else see that double post?
LuthienV: ....weird...anyone else see that double post?
Menelvagor Valar: double double.
LuthienV: ok good, its gone
Menelvagor Valar: yay :)
Menelvagor Valar: go Luthien
GilraenV: I saw it
GilraenV: I have a not-quite-20 hunter on Lothar
LuthienV: cool, what race?
LuthienV: or can hunters only be one race? (I've never played WoW)
Menelvagor Valar: hunters can be Night Elf or Dwarf.
LuthienV: ah thanks Menel
GilraenV: I have a night elf hunter, Raenna
LuthienV: i was just going to take a guess and say you chose Night elf
GilraenV: much prettier ;-)
LuthienV: yep :P
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
FinduilasV has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Welcome back, Pharzie :)
FinduilasV: Aiya together :_
LuthienV: wb and Aiya Finduilas
FinduilasV: you are eartly tonight
FinduilasV: everybody lol
Menelvagor Valar: my fault :P
LuthienV: Menel got overenthusiastic :p
FinduilasV: Are you chairing tonight?
FinduilasV: |@ Menel
ArPharazonV: ok, I'm here!
ArPharazonV: sorry, needed to get out of the Zul-raid first! Got myself
3 very nice things!
ArPharazonV: cat-eyepatch, bear-idol, and one of the madness-stuff for
ArPharazonV: quite rare stuff, let me tell you :-)(
LuthienV: all this WoW talk reminds me of my Everquest days
FinduilasV: oh well I got me first levels up and killed a few times
LuthienV: are you liking WoW so far Fin?
LuthienV: I read on the board that you got it
FinduilasV: I guess its better when you come in as a grioup
FinduilasV: but I like the graphics
FinduilasV: and the quest system is okay but it really works only as a
LuthienV: yes, mmorpg's are all about group play
FinduilasV: I kniow but i couldnt find anyone
FinduilasV: you should put up a list with your characters
LuthienV: there is a list of guild characters
FinduilasV: where is that?
LuthienV: on the valarguild website
LuthienV: which server are you on?
FinduilasV: Argent Dawn
ArPharazonV: my characters are Calaron, Alcaria, Caldros, Caldaera,
Caliona, Caldarion, Calrana and Caligonn.. add me, and contact me, I'll
lend you my aid!
ArPharazonV: levels ranging from 6 to 60!
Menelvagor Valar: if she did as I said, she already added Calaron :)
FinduilasV: couldnt remember tge bane kik]
FinduilasV: remember the name
ArPharazonV: just think of it as a mix of Pharazon, Calion, and
LuthienV: The north american members play on Lothar right? Which server
to the European members play on?
ArPharazonV: Argent Dawn
Menelvagor Valar: it's on the WoW site :)
Menelvagor Valar: http://valarguild.org/menelvagor/wow/wowframe.html
Menelvagor Valar: under the link "Europe" in the top frame
LuthienV: you linked right as I found it Menel :-)
Menelvagor Valar: of course, I created it :-D
Menelvagor Valar: Ok, it's 17:15 EST.
Menelvagor Valar: I think it's about time that the meeting got started.
LuthienV: no Varda today?
Menelvagor Valar: she'll turn up sooner or later :)
Menelvagor Valar: but until then, I'll handle the meeting.
Menelvagor Valar: Membership News:
Menelvagor Valar: Anyone? :)
I replaced my monitor!
Menelvagor Valar: whoops, forgot the standard thingy :-P
Menelvagor Valar: Elen sila lumenn
Menelvagor Valar: Grats Phar!
GilraenV: Gwaihir is sleeping
ArPharazonV: as a sequel to my news last week, where I said my monitor
was dying... I now replaced it with a flatscreen
LuthienV: Another Congrats Phar
LuthienV: no more pink>
ArPharazonV: normal colors now
GilraenV: grats :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Gilraen, prod him awake and tell him we wish him a
good rest :-P
GilraenV: he's not ehre quite yet ;-)
LuthienV: let him sleep, hes sickly :-)
speaking of, we may not be around either of us next week, as sunday is
the day Gwai's flying in ^_^
LuthienV: the Eagle is landing....
Menelvagor Valar: Oh! great news that is!
Menelvagor Valar: and he's staying until (and hopefully after) the
ArPharazonV: quite optimistic, Menel!
GilraenV: about two weeks after the wedding, give or take a few days
ArPharazonV: it's your wedding?
LuthienV: don't jinx it Phara!
Menelvagor Valar: anything else?
LuthienV: And yes its Gilraens wedding
ArPharazonV: great! are we all invited? ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: and Gwaihir's of course.
GilraenV: Perhaps someone should post flyers offering a reward for one
Varda, assumed missing?
GilraenV: yes, mine and Gwai's, Phara
Menelvagor Valar: So noted, Gilraen, we'll post flyers as soon as the
meeting is concluded.
Menelvagor Valar: don't forget to put a certain Eonwe on it as well
Menelvagor Valar: Any other Membership news?
Menelvagor Valar: ok, then Web News:
Menelvagor Valar: A new story
by Casia and Siobhan.
Menelvagor Valar: Or rather, the next installment :)
Menelvagor Valar: You can find it here http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authorsT/CassiaSiobhan/stories/SeventhStone/Stone1.htm
Menelvagor Valar: This chapter is called "The Seventh Stone", which
tells about Aragorn and Legolas hunting for one of the missing stones.
Menelvagor Valar: I'd say read it yourself :)
Menelvagor Valar: Also, 2 new stories by Jay of Lasgalen.
Menelvagor Valar: "Starlight on Leaves" and "Lazing on a Sunny
Menelvagor Valar: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authorsT/JayofLasgalen/stories/StarlightonLeaves.htm
Menelvagor Valar: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authorsT/JayofLasgalen/stories/LazingonaSunnyAfternoon.htm
Menelvagor Valar: It seems Jay is on quite a roll, with numerous
stories already submitted.
Menelvagor Valar: so for these 2 a cheer to Jay!
Menelvagor Valar: Any other Web News?
Menelvagor Valar: Then on we go to Game News:
Menelvagor Valar: Pharazon, do you have a WoW report?
Menelvagor Valar: WoW Europe*
Menelvagor Valar: go ahead
ArPharazonV: WoW europe: this week was a splendid week, with the new patch,
ArPharazonV: adding a new instance, Naxxramas, for those of us who are
in raidgroups, and many quests and events tied to it
ArPharazonV: including many new turnin quests to increase one's
reputation with the Argent Dawn
ArPharazonV: other features are a keyring, which is added to your
inventory beside your 5 bags, with 12 slots in it for higher levels,
even though there are just 8 keys currently in the game that fit in it
(I have all 8, luckily)
ArPharazonV: as well as new flightpoints, new flightpaths, and tons of
small additions and improvements
ArPharazonV: most of our guild in WoW have started to explore this new
portion to the game, including me
GilraenV: (I think the patch broke my skinning trainer, though)
ArPharazonV: we were planning to visit Naxxramas on Tuesday, but due to
progress in Ahn'Qiraj (we reached the Twin Emperors for the first time)
we'll be learning their encounter this coming Tuesday instead,
postponing Naxxramas for a week or so
Menelvagor Valar: grats there!
ArPharazonV: so yes, we have once again beaten Huhuran, and for the
first time defeated the Pre-emperor trashmobs, which are quite hard
ArPharazonV: as for Valar-members in Europe:
ArPharazonV: Valandile and Fladrif are still with us, and as far I as I
know, neither had a problem being online after the patch
ArPharazonV: we also have a new Valar-member on the server, and she is
Menelvagor Valar: Welcome to WoW Europe, Finduilas!
ArPharazonV: I fear I shall not get her easily in the local guild me,
Fladrif, and Valandile are a part of, but we shall surely keep in touch
and do our best to help her and adventure with her
ArPharazonV: let not such a minor detail hamper our fun :-D
Menelvagor Valar: With a little luck, I can get my subscription renewed
tomorrow, and I'll get her in Twilight Order, which is an allied guild
to the raid group.
FinduilasV: Tkhanks :-)
ArPharazonV: correct, Menel, although most of the TTO members in our
raidgroup have already crossed over to THG, our own guild :-)
FinduilasV: I can offer a ten day guest card if need be
Menelvagor Valar: I also have a large number of characters, some below
ten, a few above 50, and most in their mid-twenties.
ArPharazonV: for me, it has been a good week.. I have been able to
receive several items I've been looking for for months
Menelvagor Valar: grats again!
ArPharazonV: as a feral druid in a raidgroup, my roles are versatile,
and so must my gear be also
Menelvagor Valar: I imagine.
ArPharazonV: but as the only feral druid in the raidgroup, I usually
have a monopoly on the feral gear :-D
Menelvagor Valar: Was that all, Phar?
ArPharazonV: yes, I suppose it was.. not much more to tell
Menelvagor Valar: Good.
Menelvagor Valar: Finduilas, what is your experience with WoW so far?
Menelvagor Valar: What class have you played, and what have you done,
and did you like it?
FinduilasV: I have played mainly my Paladin
Menelvagor Valar: what race?
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
FinduilasV: Aiya :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: heya
Menelvagor Valar: You're just in time for the Lothar report.
Menelvagor Valar: in a bit.
Eonwe Valar: Sorry I'm late.
Menelvagor Valar: go on, Finduilas :)
FinduilasV: but i ve got a hunter as a Nightelf
FinduilasV: iFinduilas as name was gone
FinduilasV: so i can start with her mor or less all over
FinduilasV: I killed a few kobolds
FinduilasV: cleared the mine ;-)]
FinduilasV: a bit anyway
Menelvagor Valar: Human Paladin then?
Menelvagor Valar: and how did you like the "WoW experience" so far?
FinduilasV: for mor interesting quests I need a group
FinduilasV: I liked it quite well as such
Menelvagor Valar: great.
Menelvagor Valar: So we may expect you to stay with us for the time
Menelvagor Valar: Superb!
FinduilasV: at least until the subscription runs out ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: Anything else you want to add?
Menelvagor Valar: at least ;-)
FinduilasV: no thats it
Menelvagor Valar: ok then.
Menelvagor Valar: Before we go on to the Lothar report, Eonwe informs
me that Varda and Fangorn are visiting relatives and are therefore not
Menelvagor Valar: so we won't need those missing person flyers after
Menelvagor Valar: Eonwe, can I call upon you for the Lothar report
Eonwe Valar: Yes you can :}
Eonwe Valar: I'd also like to thank Menel for stepping up and getting
the meeting going in my unexpected tardiness :}
Eonwe Valar: This week for Guild Questing we took on the Scourge :}
Menelvagor Valar: No prob there, Eonwe, it's part of my duties :)
Eonwe Valar: First it was Orom�, Fundin and I in Winterpsring. We tried
fighting at one of the crystals, but it very packed with about as many
good guys as there were Scourge.
Eonwe Valar: Made for a messy battle, but somehow we managed to end up
with a dead Shadow of Doom, and it dropped the Breastplate of Undead
Slaying, allowing me to complete the plate Undead Slaying set for my
Menelvagor Valar: grats!
Eonwe Valar: THanks :}
Menelvagor Valar: (I keep on gratsing tonight, pfew!)
ArPharazonV: bleh, I still need my leather tunic.. I don't think I'll
get it, kinda tired of fighting at those crystals
Menelvagor Valar: heh, but you do it alone, Phar.
Eonwe Valar: Unfortunately, trying to even fight at one of those
crystals with so many people wasn't much fun, so Fundin and Orom�
decided to join Bilbo in Gnomeregan.
ArPharazonV: is my connection still functioning? something weird just
ArPharazonV: seems to be the case
Eonwe Valar: If one of them were here, I'd let them tell how that went
ArPharazonV: I don't, Menel, we have lots of nice guildies who do it
also... but I'm still tired of fighting for shadows :-)
Eonwe Valar: I was joined on my trip to the Eastern Plaguelands by
Merry, who had just come in, and we decided to take the fight too some
of these crystals as well :}
FinduilasV: yer here Ar
ArPharazonV: good... Fladrif dropped by today, replaced my modem with
some wireless network thingy, and now it seems to be acting up
Eonwe Valar: The trouble was finding one that wasn't already nearly
swarmed. We did find one in Tanaris for a while, and even got to see
the rare spawn Abomination spawn ther etwice in a matter of seconds,
but didn't get to fight him either
Eonwe Valar: time.
Eonwe Valar: After Tanaris started to fill up, we took a little break
to deal with some of the Scrouge guys in and around Stormwind. If you
see the Pallid Horror, slay him!
Eonwe Valar: A crystal appears for a short quest. Easy exp if nothing
else, but he's a tough guy to beat.
Eonwe Valar: Finally we flew to Azshara and managed to have a crystal
all to ourselves, except for a group of Horde that would come by and
collect a large group of the guys every now and then.
Menelvagor Valar: good arrangement I'd say.
Eonwe Valar: Then, a couple of hours later a small 3-man group of
Alliance guys came up, and we joined them to finish off the crystal,
having done much of the damage to it ourselves.
Eonwe Valar: A group of 5 55-60ish people is plenty to take on these
crystals, so we have more than enough firepower if everyone got
together for this.
Eonwe Valar: And that concludes my report.
Menelvagor Valar: Thank you, Eonwe.
Menelvagor Valar: Do you have any Member / Web news I might have missed?
Eonwe Valar: I'd like to remind everyone the Games
Page Update is going.
Eonwe Valar: All of you should've got a letter by now, but you only
have to respond if you didn't give me your gaming info last week.
Eonwe Valar: All members rather.
Eonwe Valar: If you haven't given me your gaming info yet, I welcome
you to whisper it to me now. (though I think everyone here has)
Menelvagor Valar: okies, Thanks Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: MP :}
Menelvagor Valar: Anything further in Gaming News?
Menelvagor Valar: any games played, get-togethers and such?
Menelvagor Valar: none?
Menelvagor Valar: oh well...
GilraenV: I'm off now
GilraenV: namarie, folks
FinduilasV: okay Gilraen
GilraenV has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie, Gilraen
Menelvagor Valar: Ok, small report from me then.
Menelvagor Valar: On 2 games.
Menelvagor Valar: First off: Battle for Middle Earth 2
Menelvagor Valar: I played it for a bit, and found it rather enjoyable.
Menelvagor Valar: I spent almost an entire week completing both
campaigns, which for me, is rather long.
Menelvagor Valar: Gameplay is good, Graphics are great and unit control
is fun to tackle :)
ArPharazonV: yeah, it's a nice game... though I never did get the hang
of setting up walls etc
Menelvagor Valar: Too bad the AI's are still really dumb though.
Menelvagor Valar: oh, I did very well with walls on the Assault on
Erebor (Good Campaign)
Menelvagor Valar: 3 fully upgraded trebuchet fortresses behind double
or even triple walls.
Menelvagor Valar: not even the last assault got further than the 2
Srekal86 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Don't suppose you or Phar(or both) could send in a review
of BFME2 :}
ArPharazonV: hmm.. I think I missed something there by playing on
easy... I didn't even let them build a base in Dale, destroyed their
builders when they arrived... and then I just massed all my troops on
key locations throughout the mountain
ArPharazonV: and the town, slowly retreating until the last 3 chambers
were completely filled up
ArPharazonV: silly orcs never stood a chance!
Menelvagor Valar: oh, I didn't even mass troops, just upgraded (if they
weren't already) what was already there.
Menelvagor Valar: my fortresses and walls were on the edge of Dale.
Menelvagor Valar: and I held off most waves with a certain Merry Fellow
and a hail of rocks.
ArPharazonV: Tom Bombadil ftw
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
Menelvagor Valar: and the two waves that spawned behind my walls were
quickly subdued by Dwarven Tunnels and my rather small army.
ArPharazonV: come to think of it, I didn't relinquish my fortress in
Dale until the last wave either, when I had to retreat my troops
because the enemy was intruding from the side entrances
Menelvagor Valar: I had walls cutting off all entrances, with a
fortress on both east and north side, and one northeast, to bear the
brunt of the assault.
Menelvagor Valar: anyways, my second report, lest this become too long
ArPharazonV: wanna know the secret to the last level?
ArPharazonV: ents, ents, and more ents ;-)
Eonwe Valar: No! :}
Srekal86 has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: euhm...
Eonwe Valar: No spoilers :}
Eonwe Valar: There's still a slim chance I may get this game someday :}
ArPharazonV: it kills Dol Guldur-towers so easily...
Menelvagor Valar: I built 9 Trees and upgraded my troops, captured the
flags and just invaded Dol Guldur :-P
Menelvagor Valar: and a bugged Troll (wouldn't die) killed all the
trees before Dol Guldur was finished.
Menelvagor Valar: no more spoilers though.
Menelvagor Valar: Next report: EVE online.
ArPharazonV: eh, my problem was mostly killing off my own troops so I
could build more ents... those reinforcements are bad for your
population-limit... but yes, enough of BfME@
Menelvagor Valar: After last meeting, I got EVE online and obtained a trial key
and started playing.
Menelvagor Valar: me and Fanduilas got together for a bit of hunting,
and together we found our opposition blown into pieces faster than we
could lock on.
Menelvagor Valar: It's a nice game, with plenty of options, zounds of
quests to take on, both courier and kill missions..
Menelvagor Valar: It doesn't hold to one "class" per se, but you start
out with a certain advantage to a certain type of character, but you
can always train your skills to become anything you like.
Menelvagor Valar: Personally, I'm not too much impressed with the skill
system, as you don't get "xp" for what you do, but just train skills
while you do other stuff.
Menelvagor Valar: However, the seemingly endless numbers of skills does
make up for that.
Menelvagor Valar: number*
FinduilasV: May I add something?
Menelvagor Valar: Another drawback is that there are no advantages for
heavy gamers in skill training, just that you generate money faster.
Menelvagor Valar: of course.
FinduilasV: the great big disadvantage is that the higher you train
your skill the longer it takes
FinduilasV: and more or less you are stuck during that time , that is
you can go mining or easier missions
Menelvagor Valar: much like any XP system, but here you have little
control over how long it takes.
FinduilasV: the best medicine against that is multiple character
Menelvagor Valar: which, luckily, frees up some time to do other
things, like play WoW :-D
FinduilasV: best start another one when you get to higher levels
FinduilasV: or that ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: unfortunately, you can only have 3 characters, and
only one of those can train skills.
Menelvagor Valar: which, to me, is a major drawback.
Menelvagor Valar: Right now, I have a fighter, which just flies easy
missions for loads of money while my miner trains his skills.
Eonwe Valar: how do you mean, only one can train skills?
Menelvagor Valar: Only one character can train a skill at any given
FinduilasV: so you are better of
FinduilasV: like say
Menelvagor Valar: you cannot train 2 skills (even the same ones) with 2
FinduilasV: if you have frigate captain level three
FinduilasV: you start a new one , becaus you can fly decent missions
FinduilasV: and good weapons
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya Varda!
FinduilasV: i. e. when ye got the iright side skills
FinduilasV: Aiya Varda :-)
LuthienV: Aiya Varda
Eonwe Valar: So, you cannot log in for an hour, train up one
character's skills, then switch to another character and train up their
Menelvagor Valar: you can still login on any character you desire.
FinduilasV: not at the same time
Menelvagor Valar: but just one character trains.
Menelvagor Valar: it's like you have a family of 3, all 3 want to train
say, businessman skills, but only 1 of that family can train.
Menelvagor Valar: Any member of the family can do anything they desire,
except train any skill.
FinduilasV: so ye best not get stuck in a fight where you need a new
skill when you need a stronger weapon
Menelvagor Valar: I would much rather see a system in which your skills
improve in the way you use them.
FinduilasV: or a stronger ship if you want to conquer
Menelvagor Valar: like in Dungeon Siege.
FinduilasV: thats a nic e game
ArPharazonV: hey, I have that game too
ArPharazonV: still need to get my nature mage through the original
Menelvagor Valar: *grin*
FinduilasV: *rubs hands*
ArPharazonV: I soloed the endboss with my melee character, my ranged
character, my combat mage... just need to get my nature mage there!
VardaValar1: Pardon, Fangorn and I just came in from a 600 mile drive.
Just wanted to pop in and say hi [Note:
promptly afk to unpack, get dinner, etc, slipping in to see how the
meeting was going in between, made it back well into Tolkien chat.
Menelvagor did a fine job!]
ArPharazonV: greetings Varda!
ArPharazonV: didn't even see you come in, was browsing a bit, sorry
Menelvagor Valar: which comes to my 3rd report.
Menelvagor Valar: This summer I am going to work on a Middle-Earth
Menelvagor Valar: it will center around the "skills used = trained"
Menelvagor Valar: I'm not entirely sure which Era I'll be placing the
setting in, but I was thinking about the Second Era, just before the
first "Dark Age"
Menelvagor Valar: I could use a little help on which occupations there
might have been during that time, since I don't want to focus solely on
ArPharazonV: get a bard *nod*
Menelvagor Valar: I want to include salesmen, bards, leaders, bakers,
whatever you can come up with.
Eonwe Valar: farmer, blacksmith, trademen...
VardaValar1: sailors, fishermen, tailors, leatherworkers, armorers
Menelvagor Valar: aye, things like that.
ArPharazonV: scribes, poets, artists... in short, bards!
Menelvagor Valar: Scribes, scolars.
Menelvagor Valar: scholars*
FinduilasV has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Thanks a bunch!
Menelvagor Valar: At this time, it's still in concept stage, but I'll
keep you updated on the progress I make in the coming months.
ArPharazonV: do so! and when you host your first game... let me know :-D
Menelvagor Valar: I'm probably going to host a practice game with some
local friends with prefab chars, to see if the system works.
Menelvagor Valar: but I'll have to see by then.
Menelvagor Valar: besides, by then, you might be more "local" than the
current "locals" 8-)
Menelvagor Valar: well, I guess that was it for the Gaming News..
Menelvagor Valar: Unless someone has a late addition?
Menelvagor Valar: Seemingly not.
Menelvagor Valar: Then we're up for Tolkien!
Menelvagor Valar: Suggestions please?
FinduilasV has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: I have the feeling we are stricken with blank
FinduilasV: whats been happening after my exit?
Menelvagor Valar: Entered Tolkien phase :)
ArPharazonV: trying to think of a tolkien-topic
ArPharazonV: you have anything?
FinduilasV: who is a hero in what
sense and why?
ArPharazonV: what would you define a hero as? ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: which is exactly the question, Phar :)
Eonwe Valar: Aragorn is an action hero :} Lots of fight scenes :}
Menelvagor Valar: Why don't you give an example Finduilas?
Menelvagor Valar: or Eonwe :-D
FinduilasV: now that is an interesting questin in itself , grin
Menelvagor Valar: if you want, I can give one :)
Menelvagor Valar: or two :)
FinduilasV: go on
Eonwe Valar: Aragorn is sort of the standard hero: he fights the
badguys, wins the day, and gets the girl :}
Menelvagor Valar: First of all, there's Theoden.
ArPharazonV: would Sam count as a "standard" hero then too? ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: When he arrives on the Pellenor fields and he surveys
the battle, he knows there is very little hope to survive.
Eonwe Valar: I suppose I'd have to say yes, Phar :}
Menelvagor Valar: yet he knows that if he does not ride, his people
too, will be succumbed in the end, as well as his hopes for glory ended.
FinduilasV: Well Theodens "first"Trial in the book was Helms Deep for
action eh? But first of all he had to shake of the spell of Saruman ..
Menelvagor Valar: also, he remembers well the oaths his ancestor once
swore, and even in certain death, he does not forsake them.
Menelvagor Valar: well, I'm not really talking about "action"
Menelvagor Valar: more a hero by actions, than by battle.
Menelvagor Valar: a hero by actions come forth by a valourous soul, one
that does not forsake friends when their own lives are at risk.
Menelvagor Valar: One that is willing to sacrifice himself to aid
Eonwe Valar: Aye
FinduilasV: was Boromir sill a hero then?
Menelvagor Valar: Which comes to my second example: Merry.
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.
LuthienV: what about Frodo?
Eonwe Valar: Boromir was a hero, aye.
Eonwe Valar: Frodo was a hero as well :}
Menelvagor Valar: for although Boromir forgets his honor for a bit, due
to the influence of the Ring.
LuthienV: In the end he didn't want to destroy the ring
Menelvagor Valar: in the end, he redeems himself by defending Merry and
Pippin with his life.
FinduilasV: but then he realized that the ring brought his own downfall
Menelvagor Valar: and in doing so, he finds more strength than one
could even expect of a true Gondorian.
FinduilasV: /me nods
Menelvagor Valar: riddled with arrows, he still fights on, and until he
can finally stand no more, he still swings his sword.
Menelvagor Valar: and thus, he becomes a true hero.
LuthienV: is Feanor a hero?
Menelvagor Valar: in a way, and yet not.
Menelvagor Valar: his desire for Vengeance was stronger than anything
else, yet in the beginning, he wrought many things noble.
FinduilasV: the fire was so hot in him]
Menelvagor Valar: he taught the Noldor many crafts, which he learned
from Mahtan, a Smith of Aule.
FinduilasV: Firespirt indead
Eonwe Valar: In the end, F�anor was more concerned about retreiving his
Silmarilli than about any injustice Morgoth may have inflicted upon him
or his family.
Menelvagor Valar: true, in the end, Feanor forsook his spirit, and for
that, he was denied his last request, to see the Great Sea one last
Menelvagor Valar: but once, he was a great Hero.
Menelvagor Valar: but there are also Heroes that do not do battle.
LuthienV: so is he a fallen hero than?
Menelvagor Valar: like the Healer in Minas Tirith.
Eonwe Valar: F�anor requested to see the Great Sea? Afraid I don't
remember that part, Menel :}
Menelvagor Valar: I would consider him so, yes.
Menelvagor Valar: well, request... wish more likely.
Eonwe Valar: Still don't remember anything about F�anor concerning the
Great Sea :}
Menelvagor Valar: well, I do remember him dying on the slopes of the
mountains surrounding Hithlum.
Eonwe Valar: I just remember him looking upon Thangorodrim, and knowing
his sons could never defeat Morgoth, still swore them to his Oath
Menelvagor Valar: I'll check it though.
Menelvagor Valar: you are right.
Menelvagor Valar: but yes, even though he was a fallen hero, he did
many things good, and so did some of his sons.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, the League of Maedhros.
Menelvagor Valar: but the oaths they took were at any time more harmful
FinduilasV: Was Celebrimbor of the havens his son?
Menelvagor Valar: even in the end, Maedhros and Maglor (?) could not
foresake those oaths, and thereby 2 of the Silmarils were lost.
Menelvagor Valar: Celebrimbor was the son of Curufin.
ArPharazonV: Celebrimbor was Feanor's grandson, I recall?
Eonwe Valar: Yes
ArPharazonV: right, and it was Cirdan of the havens, not Celebrimbor,
Eonwe Valar: Celebrimbor was leader of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain.
Eonwe Valar: They made their home in Eregion.
Menelvagor Valar: and eventually made the Rings of Power.
FinduilasV: the Three
Menelvagor Valar: much with the aid of Sauron, whom at that time still
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
Menelvagor Valar: aid as in knowledge btw, for Sauron's hand never
touched the Three.
Menelvagor Valar: In creating the Three Rings, Celebrimbor too might be
called a Hero.
Menelvagor Valar: for he created them with a pure heart and a vision of
a better and more beautiful world.
FinduilasV: I think he definitely was a hero
FinduilasV: he set friendship before race and origin
Eonwe Valar: Aye, he made friends with the Dwarves of Moria.
Menelvagor Valar: aye, for at that time there was much friendship and
trade between the Elves of Eregion and the Dwarves of Khazad-Dum.
Menelvagor Valar: but at this I must hand over the gavel to Eonwe and
depart, for sleep is what I need.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie Mellon� and good night!
FinduilasV: oh aye"*raises eybrow*
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Menel :}
Eonwe Valar (19:08:40): Any more examples of Heroes?
LuthienV: so many to choose from
Menelvagor Valar: as I said, the Healer in Minas Tirith.
Eonwe Valar: Are the Valar heroes for constantly striving against
Morgoth, or are they "just doing their job?"
LuthienV: Good question..
VardaValar1: ohh, I can put in Legolas as a hero. He believed going to
Umbar meant his death and went anyway.
FinduilasV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: That's a good one, aye.
VardaValar1: "Doing their duty" is what many decorated heroes say they
VardaValar1: Real life soldiers given medals
ArPharazonV: can you not be a hero while doing your duty?
VardaValar1: Doing your duty is not an easy thing.
VardaValar1: Doing your duty in the face of the desire to be safe or
comfortable is very hard.
VardaValar1: But neither Gimli nor Legolas was required to go past the
mountains. They did anyway.
Menelvagor Valar: okies, final goodbye :)
Menelvagor Valar: (sent transcript:))
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: What about Radaghast?
Eonwe Valar: He gave up the comfort of sitting at Rosghobel to go find
Gandalf. Does that count?
FinduilasV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: yes : )
Eonwe Valar: WB Finduilas :}
VardaValar1: Could say there are gradations of heroism?
Eonwe Valar: Saruman gave up the comfort of Isengard to go ruin the
Shire. Does that count? :}
VardaValar1: Frodo could have said he had done all that should be
expected of him getting to Rivendell.
VardaValar1: Counts as great villainy? : )
FinduilasV: he is a fallen hero eh]
ArPharazonV: if Frodo had just gone home after Rivendell, would he
still be a hero? To get the ring that far?
FinduilasV: but we have antiheroes in there as weel
FinduilasV: go on Ar
VardaValar1: He would, Phar.
Eonwe Valar: Perhaps, no one remembers the guy who gets the dangerous
item to the planning area.
Eonwe Valar: *Perhaps, but no one remembers.
VardaValar1: but he probably couldn't leave the Ring to return to the
ArPharazonV: does it require doing all you can do to be a hero? or can
you just go home early and be a hero on what you've already done?
VardaValar1: That might fall under degrees of heroism
FinduilasV: I suppose so .., but would it have been possible to give
the ring to someone else?
VardaValar1: Another hobbit maybe?
Eonwe Valar: Only Sam would've been left had Elrond had his way.
VardaValar1: They had spares. When one is taken over by the Ring, shoot
him and hand it to the next Hobbit. : )
Eonwe Valar: Merry and Pippin were to go home anyway.
Eonwe Valar: Bilbo couldn't have handled being exposed to the Ring
VardaValar1: Bilbo was too weak for the trip by then also.
Eonwe Valar: So if they were going to gtive it to a Hobbit, it was
Frodo or Sam, and Sam would've followed Frodo.
VardaValar1: Hand it to Merry? Pippin would stick by him.
ArPharazonV: so would Frodo, for that matter?
VardaValar1: Frodo could not have stood seeing them go
Eonwe Valar: Pippin was a bit impetuous.
VardaValar1: Pippin was very young, had to grow up during the trip a
Eonwe Valar: If Pippin just had to take a look in the Palantir after
seeing it once, how much more damage could he do if the Ring put him to
Eonwe Valar: *handling it once, and for only a few moments.
VardaValar1: Pippin wasn't a possible choice at first, but maybe much
later in the trip he could've been
VardaValar1: Wipe out the rest of the Hobbits first. ; )
VardaValar1: Pippin didn't tell
FinduilasV: tell what?
VardaValar1: about where the Ring really was, or who Aragorn really was.
Eonwe Valar: Sauron probably didn't ask the right questions.
FinduilasV: he waas too eager the ?Dark lord
FinduilasV: to greedy
Eonwe Valar: He was expecting the Palantir to still be in Isengard.
VardaValar1: True. Sauron thought Pippin was Saruman's captive
FinduilasV: didnt think
VardaValar1: Sauron sent a Nazgul to pick up Pippin, thinking he was
VardaValar1: That also threw Sauron off on the real whereabouts of the
Ring quite nicely
VardaValar1: Made it natural to think Aragorn could've picked it up
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: Earlier question, were the Valar heroes?
Eonwe Valar: Situations seemed to play quite nicely in the favor of the
VardaValar1: They could've gone along with the most powerful Vala
FinduilasV: aye, I agree
VardaValar1: Valar influenced somewhat surely. As in Bilbo's finding
VardaValar1: but Gandalf and Aragorn were smart and took advantage when
FinduilasV: Couod u expand a bit?
VardaValar1: They knew Pippin had misled Sauron, and right after that,
Aragorn used the Palantir, again misleading Sauron.
VardaValar1: I'm talking book here. : )
Eonwe Valar: Showed Sauron the Sword Reforged, revealing his true
FinduilasV: well in what way has Varda influenced Bilbos finding the
FinduilasV: I know that *box*
Eonwe Valar: Not necessarily Varda, but the Valar.
VardaValar1: Gandalf turned over the palantir to Aragorn as soon as he
asked for it. Belonged to him and the time was right
VardaValar1: I said Valar. Starts with Va also ;-)
VardaValar1: Bilbo was "meant to have it".
Eonwe Valar: Gandalf first tells Frodo that "Bilbo was meant to find
the Ring, in which case, you were also meant to have it."
Eonwe Valar: Gandalf tells Frodo "more than one power was at work."
VardaValar1: Bilbo's ownership also gave Frodo a clear right to the
Ring, as inheriting it.
Eonwe Valar: This is all in "A Sahdow of the Past."
LuthienV: Was Gandalf working under the guidance, or order of the Valar?
Eonwe Valar: I had to review the chapter recently, so this is fresh in
my mind :}
VardaValar1: Gandalf was sent by the Valar, as were all the Istari, on
Eonwe Valar: *Shadow
LuthienV: seems sort of like "indirect herioism"
VardaValar1: They were there to help the free people resist Sauron, but
not to do it directly, so there memories and powers were lessened.
Eonwe Valar: The Istari were sent to lead through wisdom in the fight
against Sauron, not through a display of power or to seek to dominate
the Free People. Saruman failed in this.
VardaValar1: I'd say LotR has every way a person can be a hero. : )
LuthienV: Thats what I thought, wanted to double check with those more
knowledgeable : )
Eonwe Valar: Hehe :}
VardaValar1: I grab books for that too. : )
FinduilasV: but sometimes |Heroes have to give in to reason I suppose
VardaValar1: Just some stuff I've seen so many times.
FinduilasV: which means
FinduilasV: I should retire for once today a bit earlier ]
VardaValar1: This is probably a good time : )
FinduilasV: next week longer p)
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Finduilas... hope to see you in WoW
VardaValar1: What were you referring to by
VardaValar1: heroes giving in to reason?
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Finduilas :}
FinduilasV: yep what you too :-)
FinduilasV: sometimes lool
FinduilasV: Namarie :-)
FinduilasV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I think this is a good spot to bang the gavel.
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar: Be free, my friends :}
VardaValar1: Glad to have made it in time for the chat : )
Eonwe Valar: or stick around for After-meeting :}
VardaValar1: A bit of Scourge destruction in a bit?
VardaValar1: Fangorn headed that way : )
Eonwe Valar: Sounds good.
Eonwe Valar: Try to find a place not already overrun with the good guys.
LuthienV: I'm off for some quality mother-daughter time, Namarie : )
VardaValar1: Where then
VardaValar1: Great idea :-)
Eonwe Valar: HAve fun Luthien and Luthien's mom :}
ArPharazonV: the greater number of heroes, the smaller the heroes seem?
VardaValar1: The less any single one may have to do
VardaValar1: Lighter work
ArPharazonV: looking at the scourge invasion, for example ;-)
Eonwe Valar: more credit less real work.
LuthienV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: lorewise, it's like 3000 heroes ganging up on a bunch of
Eonwe Valar: I feel like I've said that before :}
Eonwe Valar: Everyone on the boards keep saying that we're not heroes :}
Eonwe Valar: That's supposedly why it takes 40 of us to take on the big
Eonwe Valar: Yet somehow, no matter how big or bad the boss, it "only"
takes 40 of us... :}
VardaValar1: Pippin can behave heroically but not be a match for the
VardaValar1: heh - aye, Eonwe
VardaValar1: I apologize for some weirdness on the pages
Eonwe Valar: Certainly, if we're the same as a WoW footman, we should
be be numbering in the hundreds to take on Kel'Thuzad at least.
VardaValar1: In the double switch between computers, some older pages
replaced newer ones, such as Activity
ArPharazonV: I daresay that 40 footmen could take on Kel'Thuzad in War3?
VardaValar1: Where should we go that 's not overloaded with heroes for
VardaValar1: Lowbie? : )
ArPharazonV: no idea, really... just do it at an odd time
Eonwe Valar: Kel Thuzad didn't have the full power of the Lich King
behind him in WC3.
ArPharazonV: we had like 2-3 circles for ourselves at 2-3 am
Eonwe Valar: It depends on time of day, Varda.
Eonwe Valar: Winterspring was pretty good around 2-3 am.
Eonwe Valar: Right now, I'd pick a spot, perhaps like Azshara.
Eonwe Valar: There's a crystal or two along the far East coast.
Eonwe Valar: SUrprisingly not far from a Cemetery.
Eonwe Valar: (Assuming Azshara is under attack)
Eonwe Valar: To see if an area is under attack, hit M to bring up the
map, then zoom out.
Eonwe Valar: The purple skulls tell you where the Scourge are hitting
ArPharazonV: unfortunately, the rest of the server can see that too ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
Eonwe Valar: you can also do /who areaname to see which area has the
Eonwe Valar: then go there.
VardaValar1: ahh, good thought on pop : )
VardaValar1: I noticed the purple skull bit before, good thinkking
VardaValar1: going to supper now
Eonwe Valar: Bon apetit :}
ArPharazonV: enjoy your meal
VardaValar1: Treabeard with his 53 is on, so I'll probably go in the
VardaValar1: Thank you
VardaValar1: Hope to chat later in WoW if that's feasible. : )
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
Eonwe Valar: See ya there :}
ArPharazonV: and have fun killing Scourge
VardaValar1: Woot! :-)
Eonwe Valar: We'll try :}
VardaValar1 has left the room.
Srekal86 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: well, will be saving and sending