Valar Guild

February 26, 2006 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT -5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

Back to News
Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon-(V), Menelvagor-(Valar), and Varda-(Valar)

Attending: (14)
    Members: Aerandir V, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, Finwe-(V)/aranfinwe, FladrifV, GilraenV, GwaihirValar, LuthienV, FarmerMaggot-(V), Menelvagor Valar, Orodreth V/Oessala, Ugluk of Old, VardaValar1
    Guest: Srekal86

Before-meeting
Meeting Begins
Membership
    Valandil
    Fladrif
Web
    Links:
       Ardanole: Pronunciations on MP3's  
    Encyc
       New section for Tolkien
           New Article by Franco Manni-(TV): "The Complexity of Tolkien's Attitude Towards the Second World War"
           Rare pics of Christopher Tolkien
       Art: new drawings by Turgon-(V)
Gaming
    WoW:
       WoW Europe
       WoW Lothar
          Ventrilo 50-slot talk program set up for us by Alatar-(Valar)!
    Morrowind: mod for Elder Scrolls, need Beta Testers!
    BfMe II 
    LotRO: Loremaster announced
    Scouting Ahead (our Forum rp)
    TFT
    WotR
    White Council rumor
Tolkien
    LotRO and Tolkien lore
    ArPharazonV: ...whatever happened to the Sindar in the second and third ages? just lords and ladies over the Silvans, or did they have their own territory like the remaining Noldor at Imladris?
After-meeting  (continued a mix of Tolkien and LotRO talk, no real after-meeting)

Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
GilraenV has entered the room.
Orodreth V has entered the room.
FladrifV has entered the room.
aranfinwe has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
aranfinwe: Aiyas
Eonwe Valar: Greetings
GilraenV: Aiya folks
FladrifV: Aiya
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
Oessala has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
Orodreth V: Ai
Oessala: ya!
Oessala: :p
Srekal86 has entered the room.
Oessala: /afk
VardaValar1: Aiya
Srekal86: 'lo
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Hey there
ArPharazonV: Aiya all
ArPharazonV: sorry I'm a bit late
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VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership News:
GilraenV: Gwai sends greetings... he's asleep right now, but he might pop in a bit later if he gets up in time
VardaValar1: Thanks, Gilraen :-)
GilraenV: (sorry, Varda, the opening didn't come up on my screen 'til I'd already entered)
VardaValar1: You gave member news on cue ;-)
VardaValar1: Arwen, Bilbo, and Sauron are in WoW and say hi to meeting folk
VardaValar1: Elatan was on too
VardaValar1: They are using Ventrilo : )
VardaValar1: Any other member news?
VardaValar1: Pharazon says he 's on a slower pc while his good one is being fixed up
aranfinwe: ummm.... I'm actually online for a meeting for once? :-)
VardaValar1: Should be even better then
VardaValar1: Yay Finwe! : )
VardaValar1: That's member news, aye : )
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VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Links page
VardaValar1: New link, sent to us thanks to Srekal here : )
VardaValar1: Ardanole: The Study of Arda - articles, pronounced words. Link recommended by Hyarion/Srekal: by Ardamire.
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: http://www.abo.fi/%7Ejolin/tolkien/
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer : )
Srekal86: ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: hey.... hadn't expected a meeting in here =P
FarmerMaggotV: only 16:10 here =P
VardaValar1: Did I get the time wrong/
VardaValar1: ?
Srekal86: nope you're right.
VardaValar1: *whew*
ArPharazonV: yupz
FarmerMaggotV: nope, I'm just in a different time zone than usual
VardaValar1: I did it once before ;-)
ArPharazonV: when was that?
VardaValar1: Where are you, Farmer? : )
FarmerMaggotV: Austin, TX
VardaValar1: Woot!
VardaValar1: Nearby! sorta ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: heh
VardaValar1: Meriadoc-V is probably in the same town or in San Marcos right now
VardaValar1: Might pass him on the road : )
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
VardaValar1: or on the crash off AIM : )
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
Srekal86: wb
ArPharazonV: welcome back
FarmerMaggotV: wrong button ><
ArPharazonV: wow, you crashed earlier than I did!
Aerandir V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: ah
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Aiya Aerandir : )
Aerandir V: aiya
VardaValar1: Continuing Web news
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyc:
VardaValar1: New section for Tolkien: JRRT and Christopher
VardaValar1: It was scattered around, now together, plus new articles
VardaValar1: Such as:
VardaValar1: New paper! "The Complexity of Tolkien's Attitude Towards the Second World War" by Franco Manni-(TV) and Simone Bonechi. Much food for thought.
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/articles/t/Tolkien/TolkienandWW2.htm
VardaValar1: That particular article is still under construction, but all the info is there for you
LuthienV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Luthien!
LuthienV: Hiya, sorry i'm late AIM was being weird
VardaValar1: Srekal and friends found some rare pics of Tolkien
Srekal86: http://www.minastirith.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000279
VardaValar1: Thanks, Srekal : )
VardaValar1: He mentioned that we could put them on our Tolkien page, possibly : )
VardaValar1: Thanks!
Srekal86: CT that is, not JRRT
VardaValar1: What is it?
Srekal86: Christopher, not John.
VardaValar1: Ah, cool : )
VardaValar1: Our Tolkien page is for both
VardaValar1: On the Art page, we have new pieces by Turgon-(V)
VardaValar1: "Illuin", "Ranger", and "Mouth of Sauron"
http://www.valar.game-host.org/varda/gallery/TurgonV/caveTurgonV.htm
VardaValar1: He sent nine more that I still need to put up : )
Menelvagor Valar: still not to be mistaken with the old Turgon :-P
VardaValar1: Right : )
ArPharazonV: hey, you keep picking names like Gondoline etc... you haven't quite relinquished your old name yet ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: I haven't.
VardaValar1: More web news, from Menelvagor. Go ahead : )
Menelvagor Valar: but since Gondolin and thereabouts aren't proper character names, its cool :-)
ArPharazonV: heh....
VardaValar1: They are if you're king of a place
VardaValar1: You can be called by the name of what you rule, like Mandos
Menelvagor Valar: I asked before, and you said it was cool :-)
Menelvagor Valar: anyways.
Menelvagor Valar: web.
ArPharazonV: true, I tend to use all sorts of Numenorean place-names these days...
VardaValar1: That is what I meant : )
VardaValar1: So Gondolin could be a name of Turgon
Menelvagor Valar: My friends have come back from a 6-week trip to New Zealand and they have agreed in donating their LotR pics to us :-)
VardaValar1: Woot! : )
ArPharazonV: the beauty of being a king... a wide arrange of names to use....
ArPharazonV: show link!
Menelvagor Valar: they have taken a lot of pics on Hobbiton, some with the movie setting, and some how it is now from roughly the same angle.
Menelvagor Valar: unfortunately..
Menelvagor Valar: I do not have the space to host those pics.
VardaValar1: We can do it
Menelvagor Valar: (aside from the fact they'll have to sort em out first.
VardaValar1: Same place as the rest of the Art Gallery
VardaValar1: AuSteinM-TV gave us that server space
Menelvagor Valar: they've probably shot a couple GB on pictures :-D
VardaValar1: We'll see what we can do : )
VardaValar1: Throw them at me slowly and I'll find nooks and crannies wherever I can : )
VardaValar1: jpg?
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
VardaValar1: Good, I can handle that : )
Menelvagor Valar: I'll throw em at you once I get them.
VardaValar1: Ok, just over some time, so I can yank them off the email if it eats it alive : )
VardaValar1: Thanks, that's great news, Menelvagor : )
Menelvagor Valar: np.
ArPharazonV: you have gmail, right? surely that can take a few gb? ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: (some other shots include Rivendell, Minas Tirith, the Fords of Bruinen, Anduin and more)
VardaValar1: I have a lot of art coming at me too, like 9 art shots in one email
Menelvagor Valar: (of course, most are now completely back the way they were, so you won't notice anything about it)
VardaValar1: Thanks, Gilraen : )
ArPharazonV: we'll take anything, Menel, our devotion's that great!
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: He's right, you know : )
Menelvagor Valar: Minas Tirith and the Flight to Helms Deep photos are part of a guided tour, with movie pics included.
Menelvagor Valar: oh
VardaValar1: Will we run into any copyright issues there?
ArPharazonV: Flight to Helms Deep? that with the warg-battle?
Menelvagor Valar: and they have one hell of a beauty pic on Orodruin.
Menelvagor Valar: aye, Phar
Menelvagor Valar: and no Varda.
Menelvagor Valar: not that I am aware of.
VardaValar1: Thanks!
Menelvagor Valar: the movie pics are undoubtedly included in thousands of pics.
Menelvagor Valar: so if a few end up on the web, I doubt they'd make a fuss about it.
Menelvagor Valar: and if they do, it's easy enough to remove them.
VardaValar1: sure : )
Menelvagor Valar: anyways, that's it.
VardaValar1: That's a lot!
VardaValar1: Thanks to you and your friends!
VardaValar1: We'll work out the credits for it, by email
Menelvagor Valar: I think they would prefer to be anonimous, but credits to friends of mine should do.
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
VardaValar1: They can use aliases same as we do : )
Menelvagor Valar: I'll ask.
VardaValar1: Thanks again
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
VardaValar1: Oh, updated WoW Lothar players - not too far off
VardaValar1: We also need everyone to bombard Eonwe here with their games info :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe, I dare you to :}
VardaValar1: I've had several emails asking if anyone played this or that game
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
Menelvagor Valar: dare accepted.
VardaValar1: : )
Menelvagor Valar: how many mails would constitute a bombardment?
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VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: Menel, they have to be real news to count : )
Menelvagor Valar: sure is.
Menelvagor Valar: finally some questing news from Lothar. [Note: WoW Europe, not Lothar]
VardaValar1: Menel, you said you had Gaming news?
Menelvagor Valar: Valandil (using Valandile Priest 46) and me (using Echor�ath Rogue 50) completed 2 minor quests.
Menelvagor Valar: In Stranglethorn Vale, we first went after Message in a Bottle.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: which took us to slay King Mukla, a giant lvl 51 elite ape.
ArPharazonV: you mean Argent Dawn, right?
VardaValar1: On Lothar, you said, Menel?
Menelvagor Valar: sorry, Argent Dawn.
VardaValar1: Was hoping : )
Menelvagor Valar: not yet.
Menelvagor Valar: working on it.
Menelvagor Valar: it was a close battle, but we prevailed, we both completed the quest (Valandil had picked it up for the occasion) and we moved off towards King Bangalash.
Menelvagor Valar: Of course, at 50, the tiger with the 3 adds was easy pickings.
ArPharazonV: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: after that, our business in Stranglethorn was concluded and we both went our separate ways (mostly to bed considering the time)
ArPharazonV: yes... Bangalash.... number one trophy for every hunter, it seems...
Menelvagor Valar: yes..
VardaValar1: Very good to hear Valadil is still active!
Menelvagor Valar: there's a nice bow for a quest reward.
VardaValar1: Valandil
ArPharazonV: half of the hunters I know have him tamed, I meant :-)
Menelvagor Valar: however, I immediately sold the bow, since I had found a Precisely Calibrated Boomstick just a few days earlier.
Menelvagor Valar: (boomstick is an epic rifle of 32.1 dps and +14 agility, in short, a great rogue rifle)
Menelvagor Valar: sorryz, that's it.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Menelvagor : )
VardaValar1: Sounds like lots!
Menelvagor Valar: oh, that and Fladrif having a sabbatical on WoW for a couple of months.
VardaValar1: Phar, you have anything else from Argen Dawn?
VardaValar1: Did he say why? Hope it's not bad, like money
ArPharazonV: well, indeed, Fladrif and his sabbatical
Menelvagor Valar: from WoW*
ArPharazonV: several reasons... real life, studies, that... he's waiting for the expansion now primarily to resume playing
VardaValar1: Thanks, good to hear
ArPharazonV: from which point he will be mostly rping with.. a druid, I think
ArPharazonV: as for myself, I haven't been on WoW this week, but I picked up some tidbits from our european guild...
ArPharazonV: they killed Chromaggus this week, will be going for Nefarian, Lord of Blackwing Lair, next week... where I'm hoping I can join them in battle
ArPharazonV: Fladrif isn't the only leaving, many of the guild or the alliance are quitting or just quitting with raiding...
VardaValar1: Bored?
ArPharazonV: well, half a dozen over time
VardaValar1: A lot of the interest for us is really community, not just the game
ArPharazonV: mostly real life, time draining away with the year really starting again
VardaValar1: School coming up
ArPharazonV: it's dawning on a lot of people that life is back with a vengeance... and the first thing to be sacrificed is, rightfully so, WoW
ArPharazonV: I'd do the same, but I'm hooked on the bloody game... and don't want to miss any interesting events
VardaValar1: Time management is needed there. No all day and all night raids
LuthienV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: but otherwise, we're fine... those who are staying are already preparing for the AQ-opening, with the end of BWL in sight
VardaValar1: We have people who don't play WoW, so we should probably cut this a bit short
Menelvagor Valar: well, with our raiding community recently split into 2 parts, of which some of the old crew gathered in with the new group, I doubt we'd have any trouble getting any people to raid :-)
VardaValar1: Great!
VardaValar1: WoW Lothar:
VardaValar1: AQ did open
VardaValar1: Our Dire Maul raid Friday fell through, but we seem to be able to group better at other times
VardaValar1: Our group over in Searing Gorge has been going for hours now, with people shifts : )
VardaValar1: As an example
Menelvagor Valar: Friday is one of the most frequent raiding days, anyone who can go to MC or BWL is usually there.
VardaValar1: Ventrilo is being used more now, for Lothar group
VardaValar1: Alatar paid for the 50-slot server, and people have been coming in
VardaValar1: Nice on or off WoW, by the way
VardaValar1: It was nice to hear Farmer Maggot : )
VardaValar1: We may be changing the password to the regular guild pass later, so if yours suddenly stops working, that's what happened
VardaValar1: Turgon-(V) is asking if anyone plays Morrowind
VardaValar1: He is developing a mod and can use some beta-testers : )
VardaValar1: This is one reason we need people to tell Eonwe their games : )
ArPharazonV: hmmz... I used to play Morrowind a lot, still have a very developed character, but haven't played with him for many months...
Menelvagor Valar: I will probably get Elder Scrolls IV.
ArPharazonV: I'd help, but I'm not good with mods
VardaValar1: That's the one he has too
VardaValar1: He needs players : )
VardaValar1: His email is on the News with his request
Menelvagor Valar: Elder Scrolls IV hasn't hit the stores in Holland yet.
Menelvagor Valar: or has it?
ArPharazonV: Morrowind is III
VardaValar1: Remove the NOSPAM on the front of our mails
ArPharazonV: IV is Oblivion
VardaValar1: He's using Elder Scrolls, III
ArPharazonV: I'll definitely get Oblivion as well... Morrowind was great
VardaValar1: Now email Eonwe with your news. : )
VardaValar1: Part of your bombardment
VardaValar1: We have more gaming news non-WoW : )
Menelvagor Valar: lots to do the coming days... mucho schoolwork.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, please go ahead : )
Eonwe Valar: Ok
Eonwe Valar: First, I should mention that BFME II is going to be coming out in stores this week.
Eonwe Valar: There will be a collector's edition available as well, for those of you willing to give EA your money :}
Eonwe Valar: BFME II, in case you don't know, is Battle for Middle Earth II
Eonwe Valar: Second, the race info for the final class available in LotRO, the Lore-master, has been posted.
Eonwe Valar: Finally,..
Eonwe Valar: Turbine has granted Midway the rights to copublish and distribute LotRO in North America.
Eonwe Valar: You can read the full info here: http://lotro.turbine.com/index.php?page_id=20&pagebuilder[module]=article&pagebuilder[display_item]=8
Eonwe Valar: Well, Actually, another piece of info that probably should've gone in Web News: I've set up boards on our Forum for BFME and BFME II
Eonwe Valar: The news fits here as well though, so all is good :}
LuthienV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: That's it of my news.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe!
VardaValar1: That's a lot : )
VardaValar1: In further semi-gaming, semi-web news:
VardaValar1: on the Forum, I corrected my post
VardaValar1: on Scouting Ahead
VardaValar1: So you guys can now walk in the right inn, as I was reminded by two fellow posters : )
VardaValar1: Sorry about that : )
VardaValar1: Any further gaming news?
Menelvagor Valar: apart from the fact that my TFT cd broke, nope.
ArPharazonV: aww.... into pieces, or just stopped working?
VardaValar1: ack
VardaValar1: You might be able to turn it in for another?
Eonwe Valar: I'm still working on trying to get WotR (the Sierra RTS game based on the books, not the movies) to work, and may end up springin g for a regular CD-ROM to do so.
Menelvagor Valar: as in it has a big crack from the outside to the inside, making me able to divide the thing.
ArPharazonV: and my news: still busy with ogame, the real-time online game I mentioned 2 weeks ago... even got Fladrif to play it...
Eonwe Valar: Was hoping to avoid that by buying a new cd, which I finally managed to find, but to no avail.
ArPharazonV: ah, into pieces then
VardaValar1: Is anyone else playing WotR, with the same problem as Eonwe?
Menelvagor Valar: fortunately, I can still use the WC3 cd :-)
VardaValar1: Amazing, Phar ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: played it a long while back, no problems.
Eonwe Valar: I've posted on the WotR tech support forum, so hopefully I'll have something tomorrow, when the guys who run that board are back at work.
ArPharazonV: he likes it because it only takes up a few minutes a day, he can even do it from work
ArPharazonV: I too find it handy for whenever I have a few minutes of time
VardaValar1: Menel, did you use a CD player or DVD burner player/
VardaValar1: ?
VardaValar1: bye Eonwe
VardaValar1: sorry, mistake there
VardaValar1: Any further gaming news?
Srekal86: still no word yet on that new LotR RPG they had rumors about
VardaValar1: I'll take that as a no
VardaValar1: We typed same time, pardon : )
Srekal86: :p
VardaValar1: Not the one Eonwe was just telling about?
Srekal86: the one by EA, 'The White Council'
Eonwe Valar: Bah
ArPharazonV: that's BFME 2, no? or am I totally messing things up here?
Eonwe Valar: BFME is RTS
ArPharazonV: ah, of course
ArPharazonV: *slaps head* I played that game for months...
Srekal86: 'The White Council' there is no information yet other than that one piece of information that leaked about it being in production, but even that is still just a rumor, no press release by EA yet
Eonwe Valar: The Third Age was a mockery of Tolkien already. I shudder at what EA will do with another RPG since they have the book license now.
Srekal86: Here's a bit more information: http://tolkiennews.net/article.php?story=20060110033346197
VardaValar1: Thanks for the link : )
Srekal86: Ya I'm still not sure if it would be just another Third Age or maybe a MMORPG or I don't know, I'm just praying not another Third Age...terrible
ArPharazonV: still sad about the Lotr mod for Morrowind... it fell through because they couldn't get the license
Eonwe Valar: Turbine has the exclusive rights for MMO's based on Tolkien's books, so EA can't go down that road.
Menelvagor Valar: go Turbine I say.
Menelvagor Valar: EA has too much a monopoly on exclusive rights already.
VardaValar1: Now they need some scholars to go with the rights : )
Eonwe Valar: I'm willing to bet the trouble Turbine ran into a while back when they couldn't release info was not only securing these rights from Vivendi, but also litigation dealing with the book gaming rights.
Eonwe Valar: Turbine, from what I've seen of LotRO, has not disappointed me in the arena of lore.
VardaValar1: Aye. EA might need some scholars.
VardaValar1: Maybe all these games will give some Valar jobs ;-)
Eonwe Valar: EA needs better QA.
Srekal86: Turbine is making up species/races, that's a disappointment to me.
ArPharazonV: that doesn't sound so bad... a tolkien scholar for a major gaming company....
Eonwe Valar: They're filling gaps left open by Tolkien himself, so I'm mostly willing to let it slide.
Eonwe Valar: They're not creating Hobbit-Type2.
VardaValar1: I love hole-filler stuff : )
Menelvagor Valar: or Orc Mark IV
ArPharazonV: reminds me of the Munchkins from the Silmarillion-parody the Sellamillion...
Menelvagor Valar: which leads me to asking, are Orcs playable?
Eonwe Valar: No
Eonwe Valar: Only the Free peoples are playable.
Menelvagor Valar: not including Ents I suppose?
Eonwe Valar: If you're an Elf, Hobbit, Dwarf, or Man, you will be a playable race in LotRO :}
ArPharazonV: 3 chapters.... coming of men into beleriand, coming of dwarves into beleriand, coming of munchkins into beleriand.... but the Elves pushed them out again over the mountains saying there was no more room... so funny
ArPharazonV: one of the shortest chapters in the book ;-)
ArPharazonV: oh, it was blearyland, not beleriand, sorry...
ArPharazonV: but enough of my little tangent!
ArPharazonV: what kind of Elves can you be?
Eonwe Valar: Silvan Elves only
Eonwe Valar: Noldor and Sindar would be decidedly too powerful if they were made true to lore.
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Tolkien:
ArPharazonV: ...whatever happened to the Sindar in the second and third ages? just lords and ladies over the Silvans, or did they have their own territory like the remaining Noldor at Imladris?
Menelvagor Valar: how about Huorns? they're not that powerful, save in numbers.
Eonwe Valar: Huorns are trees, not Elves :}
VardaValar1: I declare this Tolkien talk. Keep going. ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: true, that.
Menelvagor Valar: deadly silence, that.
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: sorry, side windowing
Orodreth V: Speaking of lotr games, isn't there a RTS coming out?
VardaValar1: White Council? : )
Eonwe Valar: They also ruled out Numenorean descendants for the same reason as Noldor and Sindar if memory serves.
Orodreth V: I remember penny arcade had a post about it.
ArPharazonV: bfme 2?
Menelvagor Valar: BfME 2
Eonwe Valar: RTS = BFME II
ArPharazonV: ze battle vor middle-earth
Eonwe Valar: It's by EA, so give them your money at your own risk.
ArPharazonV: takes place in the North, I believe?
Menelvagor Valar: I thought BfME 1 was actually quite nice.
ArPharazonV: since they can hardly make it a chronological sequel after BFME 1
Eonwe Valar: Actually, it's sort of like an expansion with the original game included.
Orodreth V: Looked v. nice, but all I saw were two ign articles. one about the dwarves, one elves.
Menelvagor Valar: aren't Gondorians partly Numenorean descendants?
Orodreth V: and we all know how reliable ign is :p
ArPharazonV: aye, Menel... unloyal to their King, me!
Eonwe Valar: Well, we're not starting out in Gondor :}
Eonwe Valar: Hobbits and Humans are starting in the Bree/Chetwood area.
Eonwe Valar: Gondor won't enter the picutre probably for at least 2 expansions.
Menelvagor Valar: well, if it is 4th age, it would be possible to start Gondorian in Formenos, wouldn't it?
ArPharazonV: can we play spiders?
Menelvagor Valar: not Free People :-P
Eonwe Valar: It's the Third Age, Menel.
VardaValar1: It starts when Frodo leaves Crickhollow
ArPharazonV: so it takes place before part 1?
Menelvagor Valar: so, in about 3 years time, we'll be whacking Sauron into oblivion on a weekly basis, as we are whacking Ragnaros? :-D
ArPharazonV: or at least it starts before?
Eonwe Valar: It starts at about chapter 3 or 4 of FotR.
VardaValar1: Crickhollow is in Part I
Eonwe Valar: somewhere in there
ArPharazonV: probably, Menel... and then there'll be some easterlings who summon Morgoth from the Void?
VardaValar1: Left poor Fatty to face the Ringwraiths
Eonwe Valar: I doubt they're going to go that far
VardaValar1: in Frodo's clothes
Menelvagor Valar: doesn't that mean that people who start late have a huge disadvantage?
Eonwe Valar: If they stay true enough to lore, as they are doing so far, we will not be raiding the Barad-Dur, per se.
ArPharazonV: isn't that the case in WoW either, Menel?
VardaValar1: It has instances, and after doing them, they can see changes in the environment : ) Like an area of town now shows burned buildings.
ArPharazonV: and something grammar-ish in that last sentence is messed up...
Menelvagor Valar: starting late in WoW has its own disadvantages, but none unsurmountable.
VardaValar1: Won't be terrible in LotRO either
Eonwe Valar: So why should starting late in LotRO?
ArPharazonV: btw, Varda, I mean part 1 as in BFME 1, which started at Moria, not part 1 of the books ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: well, if there's a certain time-line included, it will be more pressure.
VardaValar1: I will try to jump in as soon as possible, barring rl foul-ups : )
Eonwe Valar: LotRO is not in any way directly related to BFME
VardaValar1: I know nothing of BFME
Eonwe Valar: The only relation is that both are based on Tolkien's works.
Eonwe Valar: But one is by Turbine (LotRO) and the other by EA, and based on the movies.
ArPharazonV: ohh, I see... when you said it starts with Frodo at Crickhollow, you meant LotRO again
ArPharazonV: I thought you meant BFME 2
Menelvagor Valar: then how do you think Turbine will go when Frodo will inevitably reach Orodruin and the 4th Age starts?
VardaValar1: Now we're all straight, yay : )
VardaValar1: They are working it according to how the world is affected as the Fellowship passes by
VardaValar1: If they wanted to, they could do a ton after the Ring is destroyed
Eonwe Valar: Well, not from what I've heard :}
Menelvagor Valar: and also, will it, for example, be possible to take part in the battle at Minas Tirith or Helm's Deep?
VardaValar1: Eomer and Aragorn went to war a lot together afterwards
VardaValar1: Likely
VardaValar1: But that is all speculation
ArPharazonV: an MMO based on a pre-existing world and storyline will undoubtedly get some chrono-problems...
Menelvagor Valar: would that not affect those battles greatly?
Eonwe Valar: As I understand it, pieces of the world will exist in different timelines, so to speak.
VardaValar1: The first part will be west of the Misty Mts
VardaValar1: You can work your way through the timeline, apparently
Eonwe Valar: or rather, different instances in time.
ArPharazonV: the final instance being Moria, after which the expansion shows up to the east?
Menelvagor Valar: and if we are able to take part in those battle, would not the rewards of such ventures be of great use, and therefore unable to be gained by people who start late?
Eonwe Valar: There are certain parts of the world that will be instanced in a fashion for particular players.
Menelvagor Valar: or will those major events be instanced and able to be repeated over and over again, such as in WoW?
Eonwe Valar: For instance, the starting town will be a certain way when you first log in, and in the process of introducing you to the game, it will change until it becomes the version that actually exists in the main world map.
ArPharazonV: in WoW there are also occasions where certain loot can only be acquired within a certain period, Menel
VardaValar1: You have to fish for winter squid in winter, in WoW : )
ArPharazonV: main example being the legendary mount of the AQ-opening
Menelvagor Valar: and if so, will places like Helm's Deep and Minas Tirith have 2 sets of them in the world, one for the instance for the battle, and the one that is visitable?
Eonwe Valar: LotRO FAQ: http://lotro.turbine.com/?page_id=56#general
Eonwe Valar: They haven't released enough info to know an answer to that, Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: but wouldn't that bring its own problems?
Eonwe Valar: Check LotRO site for more info :}
VardaValar1: Menel, you might want to go read the site's info
Menelvagor Valar: reading.
Menelvagor Valar: just that from the basic info that I have, I fear it has huge future problems to tend with.
Eonwe Valar: I'm quite sure they've already been working on those problems.
VardaValar1: That article by Franco Manni-(TV) got me to thinking about Tolkien's own design problems for LotR
Eonwe Valar: They've had plenty of time to consider them.
VardaValar1: He was working up a language, had to explain it, got involved in world-making,
VardaValar1: and all of it was of course colored by his experiences and vast reading over a long life
VardaValar1: So his design kept shifting too
VardaValar1: Enough to make a whole series just for the shifts, called HoMe : )
VardaValar1: 12 big ol' volumes
Eonwe Valar: Check out the Developer Diaries as well, Menel.
Eonwe Valar: (pardon the interruption)
VardaValar1: no worries
VardaValar1: The Dev Diaries are interesting
VardaValar1: They are the HoMe for LotRO : )
ArPharazonV: note, though, only parts 6-9 + 12 were about lotr, and their most important background
ArPharazonV: the rest was Silmarillion, and a bit of Numenor
VardaValar1: The Sil, also known as Aragorn's geneology ;-)
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: All of it impacted the LotR
Menelvagor Valar: w00t!
Menelvagor Valar: Old Tom is in there!
VardaValar1: : )
ArPharazonV: true, but they existed well enough on their own without there even being a concept of Lotr
VardaValar1: Sure
Menelvagor Valar: that almost certainly makes up for any time-line developing problems Turbine might encounter!
VardaValar1: Background and foreground - all good
ArPharazonV: The Hobbit was originally created to stand almost independent, with the exception of like 3 names
VardaValar1: hehe - you tell them, Menel
ArPharazonV: and that was after most of the Sil-work was already done
VardaValar1: Aye, but the rest was all in JRRT's mind, and affected his publishable writing until it took over
VardaValar1: I love reading that stuff with the Sil and HoMe in mind
Menelvagor Valar: I might even consider moving from WoW to LotRO.
ArPharazonV: I wish there was a history of the Hobbit
VardaValar1: You can feel the background of it all
Menelvagor Valar: or at least a double prescription for a month or two and check it out and make my decision.
ArPharazonV: do the letters carry any Hobbit-history?
VardaValar1: You mean the race of hobbits, not the book, right?
ArPharazonV: I was thinking about that, Menel, but I'm almost as much a warcraft-fan as a lotr-fan.... for a few years longer, at least
ArPharazonV: no, I mean the book
ArPharazonV: does Letters of Tolkien have anything relating to the history of the book of The Hobbit?
VardaValar1: Ok, the book has tons of Sil and HoMe references
ArPharazonV: since that's the one piece I found most sorely lacking from HoME
VardaValar1: Looking
VardaValar1: Letter 1 is dated Oct. 1914
VardaValar1: So yes, it would
ArPharazonV: I could understand it, of course, it was almost completely independent of the Silm-history until well after it was published...
ArPharazonV: but I would have liked to see some development
VardaValar1: The editors would push mostly the LotR letters
VardaValar1: Many were left out, to make the Letters publishable
Eonwe Valar: The development to connect Hobbit and Sil is LotR :}
VardaValar1: hehe - aye
ArPharazonV: true, Eonwe, but that was after the Hobbit was already done... I'd have liked to see some development of The Hobbit in itself
Eonwe Valar: It started out as a sequel to the Hobbit, and in the process, Tolkien found himself putting more and more of the earlier history into the story.
ArPharazonV: it may have been less interesting than the Silm in terms of shifts and spectacular stories, but The Hobbit was as much a part of ME as the Silm would be, even before the link.... so it's a shame it's left out
Aerandir V has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Howso? Before Tolkien decided it should be linked in his overall mythology, it was just out there.
ArPharazonV: it's like two independent chronological threads tying into one... and for HoME they only decided only to follow the Silm-thread
Eonwe Valar: I recall some comments on Bilbo from UT.
Eonwe Valar: Might try there?
VardaValar1: The comments are kind of scattered, really have to be looking
Eonwe Valar: Think there was a section in UT about Bilbo.
ArPharazonV: that's true, the Quest for Erebor... afaik, that only came into existance as some sort of prequel to the Hobbit, without referring to the Hobbit's history itself
ArPharazonV: a shame, but more couldn't be expected there
ArPharazonV: HoME is the History of Middle-Earth... I don't recall... were there many references to Middle-earth in the history of the Silm before Lotr came in?
ArPharazonV: if not, it would seem odd to only focus on the Silm then, while the Hobbit would turn out to be just as important to the later history
ArPharazonV: so I would've liked to see at least 1 book in the series focusing on the hobbit... perhaps between 5 and 6
Ugluk of Old has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: a darn shame indeed that Christopher left it out
Eonwe Valar: Well, BoLT has plenty of stuff from around 1920ish written by Tolkien, fall of Gondolin, Revolt of the Noldor, COming of the Elves, Valar having a separate land and having to travel to the Elves.
ArPharazonV: true, true, it is indeed the earlier development, and the lengthier... but not important enough to leave out the second cornerstone of the piramid, so to speak
Menelvagor Valar: hmm... Loremaster (priest-ish), Hunter or Guardian (tank)...
Eonwe Valar: Maybe there just wasn't enough in Tolkien's notes about the Hobbit to include anything more than a few references here and there.
ArPharazonV: that could be a feasible explanation, aye...
Menelvagor Valar: I must say that Turbine has aroused my interest purely by their crafty way of introducing classes 8-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Ugluk, you Orc : )
Ugluk of Old: Aiya all!
Eonwe Valar: If they stick to what I've heard before and have no class restrictions on weapons, I'll be happy.
VardaValar1: He means he wants his elf to get to use a sword : )
Menelvagor Valar: I hope they won�t have any restrictions to areas though.
Eonwe Valar: I want my character to be able to use both sword and bow.
ArPharazonV: how about a hobbit with a big old battleaxe?
Eonwe Valar: It's only fitting.
ArPharazonV: oh, that's race-restriction, not class
FladrifV has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: champion / guardian :-)
Eonwe Valar: The melee classes are what I'm eyeing, aye.
Eonwe Valar: One of the Hunter Abilities reminds me of an ability Legolas has in WotR.
aranfinwe: namarie all, dinner calls
Eonwe Valar: bon apetit
VardaValar1: Namarie, Finwe
ArPharazonV: namarie
VardaValar1: Which one, Eonwe?
Ugluk of Old: namarie
aranfinwe has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: The one that allows the Hunter and his/her party members to move at greater speeds.
Eonwe Valar: The Best Part about WotR IMO is no mana on special abilities :}
Eonwe Valar: At least as far as heroes are concerned.
Menelvagor Valar: I like the idea of hitpoints and armor melded into a single entity: morale.
ArPharazonV: aspect of the cheetah? ;-)
Eonwe Valar: It says nothing about being dazed on being attacked, Phar :}
Menelvagor Valar: A character can only be defeated once they have lost all Morale; only then, bereft of hope, are they vulnerable to suffering bodily harm.
ArPharazonV: no, wait, aspect of the pack, of course
Menelvagor Valar: This reinforces the idea that Heroes aren't Heroes because they can take a beating, but rather are Heroes because they can avoid a beating while giving one.
Eonwe Valar: Yep
Eonwe Valar: Some classes can affect Morale.
Menelvagor Valar: I can say for sure, if I like LOTRO, it�s bye-bye WoW
Menelvagor Valar: minstrel and captain for example.
ArPharazonV: if I like LOTRO... it's going to be a very very hard choice for me
VardaValar1: For a while at least, maybe we can run a bit of both : )
Menelvagor Valar: I doubt I�d have the time or the money.
ArPharazonV: heh, perhaps if I had twice the amount of free time I do now...
Eonwe Valar: If I do find time for LotRO, it will be dual-subscription with WoW.
ArPharazonV: playing them both half would not be worth the money, I guess
VardaValar1: We can run both the first month at least to try it : )
Eonwe Valar: I plan to stick around with WoW for a while yet.
Menelvagor Valar: aye, Varda.
VardaValar1: Me too : )
VardaValar1: It could still be quite a while to LotRO, at least this summer
Menelvagor Valar: well, if you�ve seen most of the top-level game stuff like Phar and me, it will be easier to say bye :-)
Menelvagor Valar: at the same time though, it will be harder to give up all that �phat lewt� for brand new chars :-)
ArPharazonV: if I really have to choose, I'll stick with WoW... never had that much interest in tolkien-games, compared to warcraft where games are the main thing
ArPharazonV: Lotr-lore is done, so to speak... WoW is continuing...
VardaValar1: They added a lot of interesting stuff : )
VardaValar1: Not static at all
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I'm not just in it for "phat lewtz" :} The lore is my interest.
ArPharazonV: they can add lots of interesting stuff all they want, but eventually they're going to run into unbreakable walls
VardaValar1: All games do, Phar
ArPharazonV: with Warcraft, it can continue for many years still
ArPharazonV: there's already a history of about 23 years, and they're still at it
VardaValar1: Did you notice how long Tolkien stuff has hung around? : )
Eonwe Valar: Well, LotRO has at least 2 expansion worth of content ahead of them :}
Menelvagor Valar: no more rezzers!!
ArPharazonV: true, Eonwe, but all based on lore that we already possess, in areas we already have much knowledge of
Menelvagor Valar: any class can rez someone else!
ArPharazonV: with WoW, it's all uncharted territory, and they can add as far away as they like... and I don't want to miss that
ArPharazonV: there's just much more room for sequels, the way I look at it
Menelvagor Valar: we could collectively say we�ll skip a month here or there to play WoW again :-)
ArPharazonV: so I'll be sticking with that series over LOTRO... if I'm ever going to stay with LOTRO it'll be a dual subscription
VardaValar1: You go unconscious in LotRO, not really death
Menelvagor Valar: very likely so, Phar.
ArPharazonV: so after a mob beats you and your party to the ground, you're just unconscious, and they depart?
ArPharazonV: sounds like they're not acting very thorough ;-)
Eonwe Valar: You can be revived somehow I would assume :}
VardaValar1: nope
VardaValar1: You revive at a particular stone, where you've been taken if I got it right
ArPharazonV: if you, in a few expansions from now, fall into the lava at Orodruin, you're just unconscious?
ArPharazonV: or into the abyss in Moria?
Eonwe Valar: No, the lava defeats you :}
VardaValar1: Do you really want to play it hardcore? : )
ArPharazonV: well, falling into molten rock wouldn't be good for your morale ;-)
VardaValar1: I played Diablo hardcore. Just have to be careful not to slip
ArPharazonV: that's one death, bye bye char, right?
ArPharazonV: sounds like a waste of time... months of progress can be wiped out in 3 minutes, by one mistake
Eonwe Valar: Some people like that level of challenge.
ArPharazonV: too frustrating for me!
Menelvagor Valar: or by a set of unique monsters with extra damage, to hit bonus, and + armor bonus in the monastery.
Eonwe Valar: Characters in D2 were too squishy for me to like that challenge, however :}
Menelvagor Valar: a friend of mine had that on her 99 hardcore char.
VardaValar1: Yet you talk like you want LotRO to be hardcore?
Menelvagor Valar: suffice it to say, it took a while before the `double-darns` left her line of thought.
ArPharazonV: I don't, Varda
ArPharazonV: I do want revival from death
ArPharazonV: but to use the term "unconscious" seems a little... odd
VardaValar1: You read their description. Sounded much better
Menelvagor Valar: just see it as this: you are mortally wounded, hardly breathing, and presumably dead when a fortunate passer-by notices you and brings you back for medical attention.
VardaValar1: That's pretty much it.
Menelvagor Valar: as by miracle, you survive to let another passerby drag you back some other time.
VardaValar1: Rather like life when we were in the desert
ArPharazonV: sounds interesting indeed
VardaValar1: Only time you were in danger was if some outsider drove by and took advantage of your situation
VardaValar1: Wetlanders. : )
Menelvagor Valar: guess we�ll just have to assume these `passers-by` are friendly and have a nice comfy backpack we can comfortably be near death in.
ArPharazonV: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: otherwise you�d get reactions like: but I was stabbed in the chest! I don�t remember having my arm broken in 4 different places.
ArPharazonV: do we stack?
VardaValar1: Big travois : )
ArPharazonV: gives a new meaning to the soul bag! poor souls...
Menelvagor Valar: I presume as heroes the Valar in their infinite wisdom have assigned all of us heroes a good comfy expandable backpack passerby.
Menelvagor Valar: without any trouble to the passerby of course.
ArPharazonV: haha... one passerby for every player... just vanishes in thin air until needed!
ArPharazonV: maybe we could keep the passerby in our own backpack ;-)
VardaValar1: I would say it would be npc's doing the Good Samaritan act : )
ArPharazonV: when we're mortally wounded they crawl out and carry us back
Menelvagor Valar: handy to have an invisible / imaginary friend I�d say.
Menelvagor Valar: not one, Phar.
Menelvagor Valar: to be humane, they�d have to work in different shifts.
VardaValar1: Maybe the stone pulls in the injured? Magic?
Menelvagor Valar: so I�d say 6 shifts.
Menelvagor Valar: 3 for the weekend, and 3 for the week.
ArPharazonV: come on, Menel... they can sleep when we're not dead... how often a day do you plan to die?
ArPharazonV: unless we spend more time dead than alive, they won't have to work longer than we do!
Menelvagor Valar: as many as is needed to thwart the evil plans of the ... erm... good guys.
VardaValar1: That sounds like something my son, Sauron, would say : )
Eonwe Valar: Elves don't need sleep in the same way we do. Maybe that's what happened to all the Noldor, heh: they all became medics to drag us fro mthe battlefield when we're alone.
Menelvagor Valar: yes well... it was never said whether the stars are good or evil.
ArPharazonV: besides, if we had to carry more passersby in our backpack, the passersby had to carry, indirectly, other passersby as well
ArPharazonV: thus greatening the workload
GwaihirValar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Stars were in boats sent out by Varda : )
VardaValar1: I doubt I put Orcs in them.
Menelvagor Valar: Even Eru wasn�t without fault, although he would claim it part of his Master Plan.
VardaValar1: Eru took freedom of choice into account
Menelvagor Valar: Personally, I doubt such a theory :-P
ArPharazonV: well, Tolkien was busy with changing the cosmology in his last years
ArPharazonV: too bad he didn't get it completed
VardaValar1: aye, but we have to use what was done
Eonwe Valar: Here we go:
Menelvagor Valar: he wouldn�t have changed good ol� Menelvagor! that�s for sure.
VardaValar1: We can go into speculation in our fiction : )
VardaValar1: Like Legolas Reborn : )
ArPharazonV: I believe the moon was a piece of rock from Arda which Melkor used as a temporary hideout ;-)
Eonwe Valar: "Using the Morale system also means that there will not be a resurrection class; rather, any class could potentially be able to rouse a fallen ally."
Eonwe Valar: That at least covers groups.
Menelvagor Valar: can�t. Legolas isn�t dead.
Ugluk of Old: or White Orcs :-)
VardaValar1: He is if we kill him off in our fiction : ) Legolas of Gondolin
Menelvagor Valar: unless he�d be brain dead with boredom in Valinor, which I doubt for an inexplicable reason.
VardaValar1: Unlikely to have two of such a strange name
VardaValar1: He went to the Island ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: that much is true.
VardaValar1: Not to Valinor
Menelvagor Valar: btw.
Menelvagor Valar: Eonwe.
Menelvagor Valar: forgot the question... :-(
Menelvagor Valar: smartypants me
Ugluk of Old: ahh geessh...afk
VardaValar1: Re-read where you were
ArPharazonV: still, Legolas was the son of Thranduil... if they were the same, does that mean he reincarnated into Thranduils child?
VardaValar1: Legolas of Gondolin was not the son of Thranduil
ArPharazonV: rather, as Thranduils child?
Menelvagor Valar: oh well, getting a smoke, maybe that�ll pop the question back.
Menelvagor Valar: pop!
ArPharazonV: that was a quick smoke
Menelvagor Valar: are we able to choose Tolkien names that are not inherent to the story line?
Menelvagor Valar: popped back just as I stood up to go.
VardaValar1: Smoke coming out of his ears? : )
ArPharazonV: like Turgon and Pharazon?
Eonwe Valar: Quite likely all names in TOlkien's books will be blocked.
VardaValar1: We advise that to start, use something obscure : )
VardaValar1: A very obscure version of your name, or a translation of the meaning to another type of elvish, for instance
Eonwe Valar: That's why I encourage people to use creations based on their names in WoW. It gives us a head start on having good names.
VardaValar1: Fainan, which I use, means "I emit light"
VardaValar1: That is my intended name in LotRO
ArPharazonV: I'll just stick with Calaron then ;-)
VardaValar1: Good
VardaValar1: We will also need other names, for alts, I'm sure, so be thinking : )
Eonwe Valar: I wouldn't be surprised if Auros gets blocked, but I've got 2 more names anyway :}
VardaValar1: I am hoping very hard that they will let Europe, Asia, the Americas, etc all play together
ArPharazonV: there's where team Cal comes in... I have 9 other characters in WoW starting with Cal ;-)
VardaValar1: Auros really should not be blocked
VardaValar1: heh
Eonwe Valar: Depends on how good the team is at lore :}
ArPharazonV: no, 8
VardaValar1: Kalasul and Sulenar should make it just fine, Eonwe, I agree : )
VardaValar1: Or what they allow
VardaValar1: The team is very good
ArPharazonV: Caldros, Caldera, Caldaera, Calos, Caldarion, Calrana, Caliona and Caligonn!
VardaValar1: Caldera, hehe
Eonwe Valar: Hopefully they'll filter out the AAragoorn and Giimleee types.
VardaValar1: Oh yes, please, filter those : )
ArPharazonV: originally wanted to name Caldaera Caldera too (different servers) but it was already taken on AD ;-)
VardaValar1: Be hard to do. Wild card maybe
Eonwe Valar: PvP also will not be as is in other games, according to Turbine.
ArPharazonV: so I added the archaic little a
VardaValar1: Latin. Is that archaic now? ;-)
Orodreth V: Time sure flies..
ArPharazonV: dera is common Latin... daera is archaic style!
VardaValar1: Doesn't it though? And that was after the Third Age!
ArPharazonV: it's the little a, the combination ae, that makes it sound archaic to me
VardaValar1: ae yes
ArPharazonV: so that's what I meant with the added archaic a
Orodreth V: Yea, where has the time gone?
ArPharazonV: yea, verily! alas! lo!
Orodreth V: Your turn to deal. *hands card over*
Orodreth V: cards*
VardaValar1: We can be creative and use lore. Look at the list we have up for Bilbo sometime on the Encyc
VardaValar1: Take some of the names he used in riddling with Smaug, like luck wearer, and translate to Sindarin and Quenya
VardaValar1: Find the
VardaValar1: English versions of any name, then re-translate
ArPharazonV: barrel-rider!
VardaValar1: Correct
Menelvagor Valar: in light of character naming, perhaps we should not have one of us working at Turbine :-D
Eonwe Valar: Black Speech, Adunaic, Dwarvish all open (if you can find enough of the languages :})
ArPharazonV: think I could get away with Caldarion?
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArPharazonV: since I named him after Aldarion
VardaValar1: They have to allow something
Menelvagor Valar: think anyone can get away with `ninefingered`?
VardaValar1: Translate it first : )
Eonwe Valar: Hopefully not in that form.
ArPharazonV: translated, aye
VardaValar1: Sure, Frodo
ArPharazonV: Frodo meant courage in Norwegian, no?
ArPharazonV: I think I read that in BFME 12
ArPharazonV: I mean HOME
VardaValar1: He was based off Froda, the peaceful king
ArPharazonV: sigh... I guess I need sleep
VardaValar1: Good idea
VardaValar1: I have to turn this comp over so a student can take an online test
VardaValar1: Friend of the family : )
ArPharazonV: heh
Menelvagor Valar: nertelepta :-)
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
VardaValar1: Narcolepta : )
VardaValar1: Namarie!
GilraenV: Namarie
ArPharazonV: reminds me of Eucalypta
Menelvagor Valar: geez...
ArPharazonV: old stuff, eh? ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: I bring the translation of ninefingered, and they go into completely different things on the spot.
VardaValar1: Thanks for the translation, Menel : )
ArPharazonV: anyway, despite earlier expectations, I have not crashed or disconnected once
ArPharazonV: so I'll be saving ;-)
VardaValar1: yay!
VardaValar1: oh
ArPharazonV: saved
VardaValar1: Everyone can hop onto LotRO in the free month, to get the guild started :-)
VardaValar1: Namarie now : )
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