Valar Guild

February 19, 2006 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT -5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
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Transcript work by: 

Attending: (12)
    Members: AlatarValar2, Arwen V1, Earendil-(V)/gelondil2, Elladan-(V)/Bior the Ythling, Eonwe Valar, Gil-galad-(V)/ Xseanzee disco, GilraenV, Glorfindel VG, GwaihirValar, FarmerMaggot-(V), VardaValar1
    Guest: Srekal86

Meeting Begins
    Eowyn's birthday
    Articles: Mankind, A-Z
    Pronunciations (link now on our Links page)
    Alatar has just moved us up from 35 MB of space to 75!
    WoW Lothar: Dire Maul
    Ventrilo: Alatar set up the WoW Lothar gamers and his DAoC group with a 50-slot Ventrilo account, on the Divo server. Grab your mike and speaker and talk! We do intend to be using it on our instance runs.
    In Tolkien, different ones or groups had jurisdiction over different areas. Can you think of any areas of jurisdiction and who had the say?
    For next time, Earendil-(V) suggests: Does reincarnation exist in Tolkien's world?

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya Glorfindel!
gelondil2 has entered the room.
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
Bior the Ythling has entered the room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
Arwen V1: wow, this time already
VardaValar1: Slips up on you :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya!
Bior the Ythling: Aiya :-)
Bior the Ythling: i did it varda!
Srekal86 has entered the room.
Bior the Ythling: i got my people wanting to do raids!
Srekal86: /me waves
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: Congrats : )
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
Bior the Ythling: thanks :-D
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer
FarmerMaggotV: aiya
VardaValar1: and Arwen and Earendil and Gwaihir and Hyarion : )

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership News:
VardaValar1: Eowyn's birthday is today
VardaValar1: I just came upstairs from the party
VardaValar1: Hello to you all from Eowyn, Elwing, Fangorn, Sauron, and Bilbo
Arwen V1: Yay for Eowyn!
VardaValar1: We have about as many Valar in the house as in this chat room ; )
FarmerMaggotV: heh
VardaValar1: Any membership news from you folks?
VardaValar1: Thanks Arwen : )
VardaValar1: She has a very sweet side window going

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: The two stories sent in came the same day as the last meeting, and the second will have more chapters up this week, and hopefully I will have them all put up for you
VardaValar1: as the story is complete.
VardaValar1: The Articles section is now being separated into separate articles for the Human section
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: After that, the A-Z menu can be completed, making our Enycylopedia much easier to use.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe : )
Eonwe Valar: Heya
VardaValar1: Party broke up early, moved upstairs : )
gelondil2 has left the room.
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VardaValar1: Eonwe, did you have any Member or Web news to add?
Eonwe Valar: Nein.
VardaValar1: Danke schoen
GwaihirValar: I have a small bit of member-ish news..... I'm afraid that I need to sleep... so while I do thank you for the invite... I must depart now ;-)
VardaValar1: Thanks for coming by!
GwaihirValar: always a pleasure ;-)
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VardaValar1: Does anyone else have any web news?
Srekal86: Hm, if you wanted to have pronuncations of characters/places/etc I have a zip with some mp3s your welcome to have.
VardaValar1: Thank you. That would be great!
VardaValar1: Pardon, just had a bunch of people in a knot all talking around me, great fun tho : )
VardaValar1: Who did the pronunciations?
Srekal86: Ardamir.
Srekal86: There isn't by no means a file for every character/place, but quite a few.
VardaValar1: A person from your group?
Srekal86: Well he's known across most Tolkien forums, etc, he also goes by Herendil.
VardaValar1: He doesn't come to ours, apparently. Thanks.
VardaValar1: Is he aware of your offer?
Srekal86: no but I'm sure he wouldn't mind ;-)
VardaValar1: Thanks. Could I contact him through your website?
Srekal86: Yep, I'll send you a link via PM to his contact info.
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VardaValar1: okies. Thank you :-)
gelondil2 has entered the room.

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: This might also qualify as web:
VardaValar1: We need volunteers who like WoW, who would be willing to dig up info on 5-man instances, and post it on a thread, one for each
Bior the Ythling: what kind of info?
VardaValar1: Name of instance, where to get the opening quests
Bior the Ythling: hmm they had one site i was looking at that had quest for every instance past BRD
Bior the Ythling: before that i'm not really sure where you could go other then allakhazam or thotbot
VardaValar1: I can find it myself
VardaValar1: and do it on our forum
VardaValar1: Eonwe, do you have a WoW Lothar report?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
Eonwe Valar: This week's questing comes to you from Dire Maul.
Eonwe Valar: Questers: Varda, Eonwë, Gil-Galad, Ulmo, and Marred, an aquaintance of Varda's, who unfortunately had to leave shortly into the instance.
Eonwe Valar: Marred had to leave, that is.
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Eonwe Valar: Our first order of business was to deal with Pusillion and get the Crescent Key for Gil-Galad.
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AlatarValar2: Pardon, is this working fine? (Excuse interruption - struggling with stupid AIM)
GilraenV has entered the room.
Bior the Ythling: yes alatar it seems to be working
VardaValar1: Aye, Alatar
GilraenV: Aiya, sorry for the lateness, forgot it was sunday
VardaValar1: Glad you made it. Eonwe is doing the WoW Lothar report: Dire Maul
Eonwe Valar: After we talked to him the first time, he decided to run away.
Eonwe Valar: We chased him through the instance, clearing our path carefully as we tried to pull small groups or the big Ancients, but not both at the same time.
Eonwe Valar: Finally, we cornered him in an area occupied by Satyrs, and after dealing with them and cornering him on a ledge, he decided to put up a fight.
Eonwe Valar: Dispatching him, we obtained the Crescent Key, and decided to keep pushing into the instance as far as we could go.
Eonwe Valar: Along the way, we found Lethendris, a Blood Elf, from whom we all needed to obtain a web.
Eonwe Valar: After dealing with her and her minion, we obtained the web, completing another quest.
Eonwe Valar: We continued to press on, and came upon a Satyr boss. This was a more interesting fight, as he would throw some of us onto an altar.
gelondil2: *shivers*
VardaValar1: Me for one. Shackles, most annoying
Eonwe Valar: We mostly survived the fight, and as he didn't even partially survive, we claimed victory :}
Eonwe Valar: After that, we found a good stopping place when a group of flowers snuck up on us during a fight with Satyrs.
Bior the Ythling: Is this just with four people?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, just with four.
Bior the Ythling: wow thats excellent
gelondil2: levels?
VardaValar1: We started with five, but it dropped to four
Eonwe Valar: Our fifth had to leave shortly in.
Eonwe Valar: All lvl 60.
Bior the Ythling: grats :-D
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: That ends my tale :}
AlatarValar2: Is Dire Maul one of the "5 man" instances? Pardon the lack of knowledge. I am still in the process of leveling up my characters and have only adventured in areas of lesser import. :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe : )
gelondil2: I remember that encounter not so fondly :-( I, too, was "chosen" for the altar.
VardaValar1: There are quite a few 5-man instances now
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Dire Maul is one of the 5-man instances.
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VardaValar1: In more web news,
VardaValar1: Alatar has just moved us up from 35 MB of space to 75!
VardaValar1: Praise him with great praise!
VardaValar1: Thanky, even : )
gelondil2: *cheers*
Srekal86: wait what?
Srekal86: 35mb for the entire site or just email account space?
VardaValar1: Our site now has 75mb space to work with, and don't dis it ; )
Srekal86: ;-)
VardaValar1: We have separate email accounts
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VardaValar1: I am happy with gmail : )
AlatarValar2: I have further news relating to web, if you care to hear it now?
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VardaValar1: Yes, please
AlatarValar2: I have just purchased a Ventrilo server, 50 user.
AlatarValar2: I will bear this cost.
gelondil2 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: ohh, man
AlatarValar2: I am configuring name now. Will post as soon as it is ready.
AlatarValar2: Suggest it be used for guild on WOW
VardaValar1: /bow
AlatarValar2: I will allow my DAOC guild access also. There will be two rooms on it. Valar and Lore. (That's the DAOC guild)
Eonwe Valar: Wow, thanks Alatar.
AlatarValar2: With 50 users, that will handle both easily
VardaValar1: WoW does go up to 40 man instances, but I don't see us doing that soon
AlatarValar2: Heh. Well, in such cases, you will likely be connecting to the Vent/TS server of the guild leading the 40 man raid, at least until that is us.
AlatarValar2: Lore will sometimes have 15 people in Vent for a raid.
AlatarValar2: So plenty of room for Valar
VardaValar1: Sounds really fantastically great!
AlatarValar2: It was time we did something.
VardaValar1: We were about to do Teamspeak
AlatarValar2: Besides, Ventrilo is a great aid to my DAOC guildmates. It will be a great aid here as well. Spoken communications go much better.
VardaValar1: Ventrilo is better than Teamspeak.
VardaValar1: I've been digging around the site offerings for it, but this is so much better
AlatarValar2: The client software is free. Only the server costs money.
VardaValar1: Right
AlatarValar2: So all Valar may use it with no cost to them.
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VardaValar1: You will be letting us know on the Forum or by email for the News?
gelondil2 has entered the room.
Glorfindel VG: Aiya!
Glorfindel VG: yeah i have ventrillo
Glorfindel VG: for team fortress classic
Glorfindel VG: anybody ever play that game?
VardaValar1: A number of us have, aye
AlatarValar2: I am configuring it now, Varda. Information will be available in just a moment.
Glorfindel VG: do you have the game varda?
VardaValar1: That's fast : )
VardaValar1: Not me. My kids used it a while back
gelondil2: that's a HL mod, right?
FarmerMaggotV: I wish enough people were interested in Day of Defeat: Source to create a branch there..... It would be fun having a game where you can communicate with your team and strategize instead of running and shooting
VardaValar1: HL aye
VardaValar1: We need people to send Eonwe info on which games they play
VardaValar1: Then we can get together
Glorfindel VG: thats why i like tfc thesirg
Glorfindel VG: its all about strategy
VardaValar1: If you play a game, send it in and we can see about doing things like branches
Glorfindel VG: as a matter of fact me and this other friend of mine are forming a team
Glorfindel VG: or a clan if you like
Glorfindel VG: defence and offensive strategy
Glorfindel VG: its very fun
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VardaValar1: ok, so you don't really need us
VardaValar1: More web news:
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VardaValar1: We tried Joomla, but it does not seem to be meeting our needs
VardaValar1: We are now looking at using a php and css combo of our own, making a template, and going with that.
VardaValar1: I don't see any of the European group for WoW for a report. Am I missing someone?
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VardaValar1: Tolkien:
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VardaValar1: In Tolkien, different ones or groups had jurisdiction over different areas.
VardaValar1: Eru, to begin, had total jurisdiction over everything
VardaValar1: Then, once he had it set up, he had the Valar take care of various sections
VardaValar1: The Valar could enter into an agreement that would pull them back from their normal jurisdiction, and set up a condition to take it back again, as with Earendil.
VardaValar1: In Valinor, certain Elves had rulership of certain groups, and in Middle-earth, certain elves and men had their own jurisdictions
VardaValar1: And some beings tried to take it all
VardaValar1: Can you think of any areas of jurisdiction and who had the say?
VardaValar1: How about Thingol, having all the elves who stayed in Middle-earth?
VardaValar1: When the Noldor came back, they found him in power, backed by Melian.
Eonwe Valar: All the Elves of Beleriand at least.
VardaValar1: Who had jurisdiction over the ones outside Beleriand at that time?
gelondil2: I would be interested to know that too :-)
Eonwe Valar: Someone from among their people is about all we can guess there.
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VardaValar1: Those groups seemed very scattered. Perhaps they were more like family tribes?
VardaValar1: The ones in the east found themselves in trouble as were the Men there, since Melkor was very active
Eonwe Valar: Since there were already leaders in the for of Ingwë, Elwë, and Finwë, and the leadership seemed to go by family even then, chances are good it would be someone either related to them or one of their seconds.
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VardaValar1: They may have had very little organization
VardaValar1: So they had a family system to work with, at least
VardaValar1: And they may have considered a family member of closer descent who returned as higher on the hierarchy?
VardaValar1: The Silvans seemed inclined to take Sindar on as leaders, but we don't hear much about Noldor leading Silvans except for Galadriel, who was married to a Sinda, Celeborn
VardaValar1: Alatar has the Ventrilo information now
Eonwe Valar: Regarding that, I only remember a quote about the Silvan Elves being led by Noldor and Sindar in the Second/Third Age.
AlatarValar2: The server is at port number is 3796
AlatarValar2: There is a server password
AlatarValar2: It is alatarvent
AlatarValar2: You will see two channels, clearly marked
AlatarValar2: No other passwords are needed.
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VardaValar1: Divo Networks
AlatarValar2: They were first in the list when googling ventrilo hosting :-) If we do not like them, I will move it. Their rates are good, as good as I've seen, and the server was up and running in seconds.
AlatarValar2: I am connected right now, and it seems perfectly fine to me
gelondil2: I'm curious about that last comment Eonwe - what portion of all the elves in the 2nd and third age are Noldor and Sindar, it seems that there isn't much left for others to lead :-)
AlatarValar2: And now I must apologize, but family draws me away with some urgency. I will see you all later on. Enjoy the Ventrilo.
AlatarValar2: Namarie
VardaValar1: ok! We need to grab our mikes and speakers, connect to Ventrilo, and experiment with talking to each other
gelondil2: bye
VardaValar1: Thanks again!
VardaValar1: Namarie!
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Eonwe Valar: Well, Silvans would simply be Elves who started on the Journey but never crossed the Misty Mountains.
Eonwe Valar: So I guess they are all covered :}
gelondil2: Wasn't Cirdan Teleri?
gelondil2: or am I mixing up my names?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: Reading the books gives a bit of conflicting info, but it sounded as if all the Vanyar went to Valinor, as they were a small, more tightly-knit group
VardaValar1: Aye on Cirdan
VardaValar1: Teleri were the Sindar that made it to Valinor
VardaValar1: Did Cirdan ever make it there before the last ship?
Eonwe Valar: Well, he was likely of the Teleri who remained to find Elwë
VardaValar1: So we could call him a Sinda
Eonwe Valar: So maybe that makes him Sindarin.
gelondil2: by definition, he didn't Varda, as he was the captain for the last ship.
VardaValar1: I don't believe he went there and back, as he had his mission to handle the ships
gelondil2: hmm... interesting
gelondil2: the last elf to see Valinor is one that helped so many reach it
VardaValar1: He seems to have had a palantir
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Eonwe Valar: The Tower Hills were close if memory serves. Perhaps he just used that one.
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gelondil2: and they could reach that far?
Eonwe Valar: The palantir that looked only to the Master Stone on Eressea.
gelondil2: plus, I was meaning "see" a little more literally :-)
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VardaValar1: I agree, Earendil : )
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gelondil2: going back to the other topic, I'm thinking a different question...
gelondil2: are there any places that were governed/overseen by two (or more) entities...
gelondil2: you could go an hour naming all the localities (Gondor, Rivendell, Moria, Gondolin, Numenor, etc) that had a single control
VardaValar1: Mirkwood was contested between Thranduil and Dol Guldur, later part of it was ruled by Celeborn
gelondil2: well, I don't count Sauron's claim as a valid claim :-)
Eonwe Valar: Well, the Oathbreakers swore to both Sauron and Isildur. Didn't make for a pretty result.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Arnor and Gondor had a High King, but also local kings
gelondil2: I was thinking of the towns of Men in Eriador - they were independently governed, but were still technically counted as a part of Gondor
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VardaValar1: The Shire gave allegience to the King, but were actually governed by themselves, and protected by the Rangers
Eonwe Valar: Well, that's just part of delegating authority. If that counts, I nominate Ea to qualify as well, as Eru held all authority, but also let the Valar govern it.
VardaValar1: With the Rangers, they also had no need to be great in the military, so they could concentrate on living : )
VardaValar1: The Rangers were nearly nothing left to their existence but military, it seemed
gelondil2: well, then... who governed Bree at the end of the Third Age? Denethor?
VardaValar1: Denethor was over the southern kingdom, so no
gelondil2: then whom? :-)
VardaValar1: Pretty much they seemed to have their own mayors
gelondil2: that's my point
Eonwe Valar: There was likely a city council and/or mayor of sorts.
Eonwe Valar: The Shire had a mayor, so assuming Bree has one isn't really a stretch.
gelondil2: nobody higher up "delegated" that responsibility to them, they really were rulers of their own domains, however small they were
gelondil2: I suppose you could say that the last king of Arnor delegated it hundreds of years ago, but I imagine most mayors in that area paid mostly lip-service to that :-)
VardaValar1: The Rangers continued to protect the territory of the King, who was actually their chief
VardaValar1: Actual governing was generally left up to the locals. Interesting point
gelondil2: yeah, that's part of why that area is kinda "iffy" about who governs it - generally the governing body also commands the military
VardaValar1: The chief commanded the military : )
Eonwe Valar: The city itself seemed to have a policing force, or there would've been no one at the gates.
VardaValar1: I guess that would make it easier for Aragorn to take over as King there
gelondil2: which means there was no real power base there, for the common people to look to as their leader
VardaValar1: Aye, they did have police, which are different
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gelondil2: it was alluded to a few times, I know, people generally understood the concept that they were part of a larger nation, but nobody really had any clue what that meant until the king returned :-)
VardaValar1: The idea of a king seemed to help hold them together in a very loose fashion
VardaValar1: Waiting for the return
VardaValar1: It gave them identity
Eonwe Valar: afk for a few.
gelondil2: I think I about exhausted my thoughts on taht subject :-)
VardaValar1: I think we ran out of people too : )
gelondil2: that too
VardaValar1: I suggest we adjourn to After-meeting : )
VardaValar1: Try out Ventrilo
gelondil2: if I get back into WoW, I'll get vent going, but atm I'm going to leave you to that yourselves :-)
gelondil2: btw - topic suggestion for next meeting:
VardaValar1: All ears : )
gelondil2: Does reincarnation exist in Tolkien's world?
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VardaValar1: For elves, in a way
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gelondil2: logging out now, going to watch a movie. Namarie :-)
VardaValar1: When you say reincarnation, do you mean from babyhood, same or some other race?
VardaValar1: bye!
gelondil2: good question - save it for next week! :-)
gelondil2: we can discuss both possibilities hehe
VardaValar1: Enjoy your movie
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Arwen V1: =)
Eonwe Valar: back
VardaValar1: Aiyata
Arwen V1: yay
Eonwe Valar: Hantal
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Eonwe Valar: I suppose I'll take my leave. Take care.
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GilraenV: Namarie Varda
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VardaValar1: Namarie, Gilraen