Valar Guild

February 12, 2006 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT -5)

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Back to News
Transcript work by:  Ar-Pharazon-(V)
and Varda-(Valar)

Attending: (11)
    ArPharazonV, Earendil-(V)/gelondil2, Eonwe Valar, Gil-galad-(V)/Xseanzee disco, GilraenV, Glorfindel-(V)/Glorfindel VG, GwaihirValar, FarmerMaggot-(V), Menelvagor Valar, Orodreth V, VardaValar1

Meeting Begins
    New Stories
    Objects section separated
    Requested Projects:
       Thorin's Company
       Requested articles listed on the front of the Encyc
    Silmarillion: too dense or just right?
    Maglor's Silmaril, after it was cast into the water, what became of it?

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: greetings
GilraenV has left the room.
Orodreth V has entered the room.
GilraenV has entered the room.
GilraenV: that was odd
VardaValar1: Aiya
GilraenV: Aiya
VardaValar1: You seemed to have fallen out there, Gilraen
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
GilraenV: Yeah... it said was in te chat room, but nothing else had loaded
ArPharazonV: I'm alive!
VardaValar1: Yay, Phar : )
GilraenV: *I was in the
ArPharazonV: Aiya all... what'd I miss?
Orodreth V: The poison didn't work?
VardaValar1: Invitations
Eonwe Valar: the heya :}
Orodreth V: I MEAN UH
GilraenV: and then it died
VardaValar1: To us, you seemed to crash pretty fast
VardaValar1: Glad you made it!
Eonwe Valar: afk for a sec, making some tea
GilraenV: oh! that's what I was doing!
VardaValar1: Tea - a drink of the Valar : )
GilraenV: I knew there was something I was supposed to be doing... making tea >.<
VardaValar1: hehe
GilraenV: so I'll brb before my sister strings me up by the heels for forgetting the tea ^^
VardaValar1: Run! :-)
Menelvagor Valar: gnegne :-)
VardaValar1: So who's here? Aye's please?
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: Aye
VardaValar1: That does not bode well
VardaValar1: Yay Phar!
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aye
Eonwe Valar: Aye
Eonwe Valar: tea still in the making
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Eonwe. Tea?
Eonwe Valar: There is no I in T-E-A-M, but there is an Aye :}
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Gil-galad
VardaValar1: Seems to be crash city today
VardaValar1: Let's start and we can scroll at need
Xseanzee disco: lol honestly.

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Members:
VardaValar1: I'm seeing more of you these days, thanks to WoW and to AIM
VardaValar1: Email helps a lot, the Forum helps some
VardaValar1: Most of you here already enjoy using most of those, and I hope others enjoy them too
VardaValar1: Any Membership news? Birthdays, good tea?
Menelvagor Valar: (afk for a couple mins gotta have a smoke)
VardaValar1: Pipeweed withdrawal
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
ArPharazonV: well, I have a bit of personal news
VardaValar1: If it's ok to put on the transcript, go ahead : )
Menelvagor Valar: I have some news about my WoW move to Lothar when I return
VardaValar1: cool!
ArPharazonV: I had huge pc-problems this week, almost not making it to the meeting with my pc crashing and not wanting to reboot
VardaValar1: Gaming news, there, Menel. Should be just right
VardaValar1: Phar, do you know what caused it?
ArPharazonV: ran a memtest, which clearly indicated something wrong with my memory
VardaValar1: ugh!
ArPharazonV: so I experimented a bit, and merely an hour ago I found the answer
ArPharazonV: one of the memory-cards was apparently failing
ArPharazonV: so I removed it, and now I was finally able to update to patch 1.9.3 without crashing... so I assume that was the problem
VardaValar1: Sounds like it. So you're buying a new one first opportunity?
ArPharazonV: now at 256 mb instead of 512, so I might be a bit laggy in everything I do
ArPharazonV: and aye, I'll get a new one asap
VardaValar1: But you'll be there!
ArPharazonV: probably expanding to over 1 gb
VardaValar1: And again, bad is converted to good
ArPharazonV: perhaps even 2 gb if I'm going to buy even a third card
ArPharazonV: yes, for 100 or 200 euros ;-)
ArPharazonV: so with luck, my pc-problems will be over, after all these weeks
VardaValar1: Go, Phar!
VardaValar1: Congrats on diagnosing it!
ArPharazonV: for they started to happen at the time of the 1.9 patch in WoW... and that's weeks ago
ArPharazonV: thanks
ArPharazonV: had a lot of help from Fladrif, Farmer, and others... including a lot on our WoW guild-forum
VardaValar1: Go Valar!
ArPharazonV: the AD guild, that is
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Go AD : )
VardaValar1: Fladrif, Farmer, and AD : )
ArPharazonV: yeah, and probably some others I don't readily recall
VardaValar1: Pardon, have to get some bandaids for Fangorn
ArPharazonV: for all readers: if you are among those, thank you very much!
GilraenV: (back. with excellent tea. even if I do say so myself ;-))
VardaValar1: back
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
VardaValar1: Sounds yummy, Gilraen : )

VardaValar1: On to Web News:
VardaValar1: First, what has been done this week:
VardaValar1: Farmer pulled up a Joomla program, a shell that we might possibly try putting the web pages under
VardaValar1: It is still just a thought and experiment, pending how you guys like it and if we get it operating well
VardaValar1: Also, on the Tolkien Encyclopedia,
gelondil2 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: the Objects section is now completely separated into separate articles
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
gelondil2: *waves*
VardaValar1: New parts have been added to it for art
VardaValar1: that was made by Tolkien's characters
VardaValar1: If you guys would like to help make lists for it, please email them in
VardaValar1: Then we can aim for more articles on them
VardaValar1: Sculpture is one of the additions, for instance
VardaValar1: Some of it is already started
VardaValar1: On the Stories section, a 21 chapter story is now complete and up for your enjoyment
VardaValar1: "Tears Like Rain" by our new Tolkien-only members, Cassia and Siobhan
VardaValar1: on/authorsT/CassiaSiobhan/stories/TearsLikeRain/Tears1.htm
VardaValar1: Cassia likes to do photomanips to go along with her stories
VardaValar1: These first stories have some of her earlier manips
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: If any of you enjoy doing such things, we could use your help
VardaValar1: Aiya Gwaihir
ArPharazonV: aiya Gwai
GwaihirValar: Aiya friends :-)
VardaValar1: Photomanips or other art is welcome for any article, but especially if you wish to add some to any story or poem
Menelvagor Valar: back.
VardaValar1: even ones that already have them. Amazing how many we can jam in ; )
VardaValar1: Welcome back : )
Menelvagor Valar: thx.
VardaValar1: The first chapter to Cassia's next story is up, with its photomanip also
VardaValar1: You can pick your own subjects, of course, but it reminds us of some of the cool things we can do
VardaValar1: thanks to all the movie pictures we can grab, and can toss our own elements into
VardaValar1: I am also needing help for several projects, as I am being drowned, and we have so many Tolkien scholars here : )
VardaValar1: I would like to make a Thorin's Company page
VardaValar1: It would have a list of all in Thorin's Company, of course
VardaValar1: with links to articles on each
VardaValar1: What is needed is someone with a copy of the Hobbit
VardaValar1: who is willing to go through it and pick out all the differences in the dwarves
VardaValar1: such as hood color, cloak color, which instrument he plays
VardaValar1: what he did in the group
VardaValar1: Surprisingly, some had very definite roles if you pay attention
ArPharazonV: Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Kili, Fili, Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Nori, Dori, Gloin, Oin... I know I'm missing one
VardaValar1: Relationships, etc
GwaihirValar: Ori is the last one isn't he?
ArPharazonV: Ori, right
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
VardaValar1: Take notes on them, then put the notes into something readable
VardaValar1: Good, guys : )
VardaValar1: You just about completed the first page, right there : )
VardaValar1: Bilbo's link is easily available since his information has already been separated out
ArPharazonV: I once had this nice, although a bit childish, hobbit-site.. let's see if I can still find it
VardaValar1: Another project I need help on is Silmarillion
VardaValar1: The Feanorians
VardaValar1: We need something in a similar style as I just said for Thorin's Company
VardaValar1: I'd like these things to be better than just childish, if you don't mind : )
VardaValar1: I'm perfectly willing to help out, but I need some folk willing to do the main work. I'm just too drowned right now
VardaValar1: I have some beloved projects shoved to the back burner for way too long already
ArPharazonV: bah, can't find the website... oh well
VardaValar1: If any of you have your own ideas for projects for the Encyc, please feel to jump in and do it : )
VardaValar1: Maybe later, Phar : )
VardaValar1: My email is always open!
VardaValar1: On the general member site, I'm working on it too
gelondil2 has left the room.
VardaValar1: It may have some odd link bars started around, while I try to figure out some code
VardaValar1: If you know code that lets the links in one spot be a different color than in another spot, I could use the help.
ArPharazonV: ah, found it... been a long time since I last visited, it seems worse than I thought it was
VardaValar1: HTML is fine, doesn't have to be fancy
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Maybe it will inspire us to do better : )
VardaValar1: URL?
ArPharazonV: the hobbit adventure maze was nice, though...
ArPharazonV: t/hindex2.html
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: So we should check it out at our own risk : )
ArPharazonV: reminded me of those zork-games
VardaValar1: Oh, and the Finrod index of articles is now up
VardaValar1: It's an example of trying to add pictures to the top of an index, with the links to all the related articles below
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: I hope it will be an improvement, and fun as well
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer!
FarmerMaggotV: aiya!
VardaValar1: AIM seems to be having crashes today
ArPharazonV: Farmer! Thanks for that cd-writing software! It allowed me to put memtest on a boot-cd, which identified the memory as being my problem, which resulted in my taking out the faulty ram-card and crashing no more!
FarmerMaggotV: heh =)
VardaValar1: Yay, Farmer!
gelondil2 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back! Crashing?
VardaValar1: Ahh, here's the direct URL to the new style article I'm trying to rig
gelondil2: AIM kicks me of when I'm idle for more than 10-15 minutes
VardaValar1: Finrod has it now:
VardaValar1: cles/f/Finrod/Finrod.htm  [Note: feedback in window: just put picture and quote pretties in articles, not in indices. Also, put in lots of links in the articles to other articles. Moved picture and quote to article, looking into links, and will need to put thumbnail descriptions on top of each index for this to be worth using as such a quick look-up system instead of looking for heavy articles.]
VardaValar1: Let me know if you'd like it changed up in some way, when you can.
VardaValar1: Guess we'll have to have you talk more!
VardaValar1: Glad you found your way back in, Earendil : )
gelondil2: if you can figure out how to fix that from happening, that would be even better! :-)
VardaValar1: Earendil, I think you missed the projects we're calling for help on?
VardaValar1: We have some pretty bright experts here, who might be able to help
gelondil2: last I heard was silmarillion / feanorians
VardaValar1: Side window anyone?
VardaValar1: aye, good one
VardaValar1: Thorin's company was earlier
VardaValar1: If anyone would like to go through the Requested Articles on the first page of the Encyc and toss some to us, we would be happy : )
VardaValar1: We have a great many more Tolkien stories headed our way, but I'd really like to see them from this group
VardaValar1: Any further web news before Gaming?
gelondil2: I had a suggestion for the 'pedia
VardaValar1: The other children of Finwe could be a project too : )
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Earendil
gelondil2: nm, scratch that
gelondil2: wasn't anything important, now that I think of it
VardaValar1: We take trivia : )
VardaValar1: You sure, Earendil?
VardaValar1: Any other Web News?
gelondil2: well, there are a few geographical areas that aren't listed in the encyclopedia, whether they have links or no - Beleriand and Eriador, to start with [Note: Both added, plus others. Need articles.]
VardaValar1: Good comment
VardaValar1: Partly because we needed articles, but the lists really need made. Good point!
VardaValar1: Any others you can think of offhand?
gelondil2: not offhand, no
VardaValar1: okies. My email is there when you need it : )

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Farmer, go ahead
FarmerMaggotV: Everyone can play Day of Defeat: Source this weekend for free!
FarmerMaggotV: It started Friday afternoon (I think) and lasts till 25:59 PST tonight
ArPharazonV: you mean 23:59?
FarmerMaggotV: Which leaves just over 9 hours remaining =)
FarmerMaggotV: uh, yes I do
FarmerMaggotV: It's a great game,
VardaValar1: We need hours like 25.59 though ; )
VardaValar1: That's great news, Farmer! Thank you!
ArPharazonV: hehe
FarmerMaggotV: If you'd rather see a screenshot than hear me praise it ;-)
ArPharazonV: ah, a shooter?
FarmerMaggotV: Yep
VardaValar1: Like both : )
gelondil2 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Poor Earendil
Menelvagor Valar: /beleriand_map.jpg (map of beleriand, if you want to check on regions :-))
ArPharazonV: oh, cool
VardaValar1: We do have some maps. I should link them in to the specific spots under Places
ArPharazonV: I thought those were all taken down by the tolkien estate?
VardaValar1: No, some are up
VardaValar1: Look at our map page
VardaValar1: Only ones that would compete with their map book
Menelvagor Valar: never got an email stating I should, so I didn't :-)
VardaValar1: Same
VardaValar1: If they don't tell you to, you're probably ok
VardaValar1: They pulled a lot of Elatan's down, even though they were mostly original work
VardaValar1: They left his star map though
FarmerMaggotV: I'm probably going to be disconnected in a few, low battery
gelondil2 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Yay, for the persistance of Earendil!
ArPharazonV: haha
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you had Gaming News? Two parts I believe?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
ArPharazonV: good thing too, otherwise he wouldn't have come all the way to Valinor...
Eonwe Valar: First is Lothar Questing done on Friday.
gelondil2: :-)
VardaValar1: (Sorry I had to be out of town)
Eonwe Valar: Questers: Eonwe (as Kalasul), Sauron (as Thu), Draxcil (as Wymor), Arathorn (as Haran)
Eonwe Valar: Quests completed: Save Techbot's Brain, Data Rescue, Essential Artificials, Gyrodrillmatic Excavations, Gnogaine (quest line), The Grand Betrayal, Grime Covered Ring (Quest Line), A Fine Mess
ArPharazonV: ah, Gnomeregan
Eonwe Valar: Our first task was to recover Techbot's Brain and grab the first color-coded card. It was a relatively quick fight over to Techbot, and after a short battle we had his brain.
Eonwe Valar: Thu had recovered the radiation from one of the Troggs, and went to turn that in for the next part of the Gnogaine quest line. After summoning him back, we went to the instance.
Eonwe Valar: We gathered the Robo-mechanical guts as we fought our way to the safe zone, stopping only to help a gnome block up some cave-ins to stop incoming Troggs (side quest).
Eonwe Valar: Reaching the Safe Zone, we cleaned up the grimy items we found along the way and then proceeded into the ooze area. Arathorn distracted a couple while Sauron and I got the ooze we needed.
Eonwe Valar: Leaving that area behind, we went on, now able to gather the Essential Artificials, taking turns on getting them. We fought our way down as we collected Guts, Essentials, and Cards, taking out bosses that got in our way.
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Finally, we came before the Doors to Thermaplugg, and having completed all quests so far but his, proceeded in. Arathorn kept Thermaplugg busy and tried to kill him and Draxil and Sauron attacked while trying to stop the bombs.
ArPharazonV: you didn't do the Goblin escort? tsk..
Eonwe Valar: I stood back, trying to keep everyone alive with heals and dodge the few bombs that did come at me.
Eonwe Valar: In the end, we got him though. Unfortunately, we had just gone over the two-hour limit on the radiation we collected from the oozes.
ArPharazonV: oh, nvm, that's "a fine mess"
Eonwe Valar: We returned to the Ooze area, picking up the grime-encrusted object (starting the quest) along the way. We got the raidation again, and decided to go after a somewhat obscure quest in the Gnomeregan area: A Fine Mess.
ArPharazonV: :-X
Eonwe Valar: Finding him(Kernobee) in the area right outside the Safe Zone, we then escorted him to the Clockwerk Run, where the Gnomeregan instance's front door. After that, it was simply a matter of turning in quests.
VardaValar1: Nice job! That was a lot of quests!
ArPharazonV: indeed it was! the entire instance
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
ArPharazonV: and I should know, I've been through it at least 10 times
VardaValar1: Sounds like every one of them
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Glad everyone was willing to stick around that long.
VardaValar1: Aye : )
VardaValar1: Or able
VardaValar1: On Lothar questing,
Eonwe Valar: Unfortunately, I must head out now.
VardaValar1: we are starting to do more instances during the week
VardaValar1: Scarlet Monastery yesterday, Turin and I
Menelvagor Valar: hmmm... last time I went through Gnomeregan, it took me about half an hour to get to Thermaplugg :-P
VardaValar1: Eonwe had other news
VardaValar1: No time, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: No time, unfortunately.
VardaValar1: I'll copy/paste from the side window : )
Eonwe Valar: What I'm doing is kind of time sensitive :}
ArPharazonV: I went through GR so often a few weeks ago.... farming silk for the war effort... I like the instance, but it just gets boring after so many times
VardaValar1: Go! : )
Eonwe Valar: Take care, good night, sleep well, have fun :}
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: You just needed to do the whole sweep once like they did Friday ; )
VardaValar1: Here's Eonwe's report on another game, LotR related : )
ArPharazonV: I did, Varda... several times ;-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: Last night I was taking a look at some of the Battle for Middle Earth 2 gameplay previews with a friend, and there was very very interesting one.
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: One of the characters was going about knocking down Trolls and orcs... while singing!
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: This was no elf :}
ArPharazonV: must be a hobbit!
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: After listening a few times, I can only conclude that this unit, it it is in the game, was Tom Bombadil.
gelondil2: heh
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: Well, it disturbs me a bit about what rights EA holds :}
Menelvagor Valar: fun ew :-P
GilraenV: oO
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: I knew they got enough to do the battles in the North for BFME 2, but if they can use a guy who's been gaffed off by everyone but Interplay in making LotR stuff,
VardaValar1: it's bothersome, as EA stuff has been pretty buggy whenever I've bought it.
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: not buggy all over, but enough to tick me off about them.
VardaValar1: Eonwe Valar: Can't patch a console game :}
ArPharazonV: Tom Bombadil.... so cool
VardaValar1: That's the report
VardaValar1: Great to hear Bombadil has been remembered!
VardaValar1: For that same game, I saw a beautiful poster at WalMart, as big as for a movie poster
gelondil2: so was he dressed like bombadil? hmm.. have to check myself since Eonwe isn't here
VardaValar1: Gimli with his axe and Legolas with a sword
VardaValar1: Check away : )
VardaValar1: Any further gaming news?
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
ArPharazonV: aye, from me too
VardaValar1: (Please whisper Tolkien topics
VardaValar1: Go Menel!
ArPharazonV: but Menel's first
VardaValar1: Menel called it way earlier : )
Menelvagor Valar: I have inquired with Bliz about gamecards.
Menelvagor Valar: they have answered that gamecards only work for the area they were bought in.
ArPharazonV: ouch
Menelvagor Valar: therefore, I can't use European gamecards for a US account.
VardaValar1: Right
VardaValar1: You need a US gamecard, or one in the area
VardaValar1: I think S. Africa or New Zealand might work
VardaValar1: Have to check
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
Menelvagor Valar: however, there is a solution for me.
Menelvagor Valar: but it requires some help from one of you :-)
ArPharazonV: you're finally moving to the US?
Menelvagor Valar: I wish.
ArPharazonV: ah, you're going to request gamecards!
VardaValar1: I suggest checking with Elatan, who managed it
Menelvagor Valar: well, I don't have a creditcard, which makes it a bit trickier.
Menelvagor Valar: but I should be able to play with just a US copy and someone sending me US gamecards once in a while :-)
Menelvagor Valar: so, question is, who's willing to.
ArPharazonV: not all at once...
VardaValar1: They might not want it on a public transcript : )
Menelvagor Valar: tell me in side window then
GilraenV: hehe. I'm afraid any gamecards sent you would be useless, Menel ;-)
GilraenV: *I sent
VardaValar1: A lot of people here are European
Menelvagor Valar: for the moment, Gilraen :-)
GilraenV: Aye. ask again next year, perhaps ;-)
gelondil2 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: next year, eh? is the date set?
GilraenV: Indeedy. D-Day (as my mother has taken to calling it, for reasons I won't go into now) is August 19th this year. But it will take a while for the paperwork to come through to allow me to move out to Canada
VardaValar1: You're moving from England?
GilraenV: mhm. although probably not until early 2007
VardaValar1: At least Canadians sound more like the English than we Americans tend to. Be a little more comfortable that way
VardaValar1: Very beautiful in Canada, too : )
VardaValar1: Maybe Gwaihir can fly to England a bit : )
VardaValar1: But that's between you folks : )
GilraenV: Being able to fly without the cost of airplane tickets would be most useful ;-)
gelondil2 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Any other gaming news?
ArPharazonV: aye
VardaValar1: Eagle wings, very handy
VardaValar1: Phar, go ahead!
ArPharazonV: I've done loads of games this week, since Wednesday
ArPharazonV: including Warcraft 3, and Populous: The Beginning, both crashing due to memory
ArPharazonV: I've restarted Warcraft 1!
gelondil2 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: normally the patch to fix a few missions to make them finishable would also install a safety device that asks you to name words from the manual
ArPharazonV: after a lengthy search for the manual online, I found out Blizzard has actually released those "passwords" on a support-page.. which was good!
ArPharazonV: I've also done most again of the game The Curse of Monkey Island
ArPharazonV: but most importantly, I was introduced to an online game called OGame
ArPharazonV: I'm playing the Dutch version myself at but I believe there are many versions in different languages
ArPharazonV: you start at a planet, have to gather resources, build and upgrade stuff, and make a fleet to compete in battle with other planets, taking their resources if you win
ArPharazonV: it takes a very long time, and the resource-gathering continues while you're offline
ArPharazonV: as well as any build-orders you've given and the research you've started
gelondil2: I missed the intro, this is an online game?
ArPharazonV: Someone I know has been at it for 6 months already
ArPharazonV: aye, online game
VardaValar1: aye
ArPharazonV: I started on wednesday-evening, and only just getting started, barely started up my research and defense
ArPharazonV: it takes a bit of patience to get going, as you can see... but on the other hand you don't have to spend that much time on it, since things continue while you're not there
ArPharazonV: you can also be attacked while you're offline, unless you enter a state called "vacation", in which you'll only gather the most basic resources
gelondil2: I'm reading the main page, sounds very pvp-ish
ArPharazonV: it is, kinda... but it takes a long while before you actually start attacking or getting attacked
VardaValar1: I'm a little concerned how gaming and gamers seem to have lost sight of the story and game, and just want shooters against each other.
ArPharazonV: if you're offline while attacked, your defense systems will do their job, and can still beat down attacks
VardaValar1: Crafting seems neglected too
ArPharazonV: true, there's no crafting in this one... it's basically an rts
ArPharazonV: but it takes hours, days, even months to get things done ;-)
gelondil2: I have been playing Eve online, dunno if that's been discussed or not
VardaValar1: There's a plus?
Orodreth V: Varda, take a look around. No one cares anymore. It's terrible.
VardaValar1: Not today. We have mentioned it before. How do you like Eve Online?
ArPharazonV: a plus? sure, it's handy for those little minutes of free time you have
Orodreth V: Some FPS games have more storyline than other RPGs.
VardaValar1: Sure they do. Just a lot of kids out there that are looking for shooters because then know no other way
gelondil2: good space-based MMOG - not PvP-centric like OGame, has some crafting, though crafting has a high learning curve
VardaValar1: Aye, Oro
ArPharazonV: doesn't take 2 hours of straight online time to get one game done
Orodreth V: Gelondil2: What race are you/where are you based?
Orodreth V: And are you on trial still?
gelondil2: Amarr, trial yes
Orodreth V: !!
gelondil2: can't afford a subscription just now, but will when I get a job :-)
Orodreth V: /me stabs the Amarr slaver scum
gelondil2: hehe
Orodreth V: The Minmatar will be free!
ArPharazonV: anyway, I guess that's it for OGame today ;-)
ArPharazonV: continue with Eve Online! I think I've said all I wanted to say
Orodreth V: ...and that's my contribution to today's meeting :p
VardaValar1: Thank you, Orodreth : )
gelondil2: to respond to what Varda said, I don't think gaming is drifting away from RPG's it's always been 5 FPS to 1 RPG
VardaValar1: I did not say that, btw ; )
ArPharazonV: anyway, some of my closer rl-friends have introduced it to me... and we might be starting our own little alliance.. should be fun to actually join a game with my dance-partner
VardaValar1: : )
gelondil2: I guess I misunderstood your gist :-)
Orodreth V: She's not talking genre, she's talking story/gameplay in general.
Orodreth V: How many games do you see now that have more graphics than gameplay?
Orodreth V: Everyhting but the indys.
gelondil2: but that's always been the case
VardaValar1: Orodreth V: Varda, take a look around. No one cares anymore. It's terrible.
VardaValar1: Aye, Orodreth
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Orodreth V: Nah, go back a ways and you'll find RPGs with gameplay and a story.
Orodreth V: King's Quest comes to mind.
ArPharazonV: I still love story/gameplay... just... a bit of variation is nice, tha's all
ArPharazonV: if I didn't love story and gameplay, I wouldn't be in WoW right now
VardaValar1: Variation is fine : )
VardaValar1: I like strategy too
VardaValar1: An instance can require a good bit of it
ArPharazonV: :-)
Orodreth V: Wait, wait, wait.
Orodreth V: Let's go over this again.
Orodreth V: "If I didn't love story and gameplay, I wouldn't be in WoW right now"
Orodreth V: Gameplay, perhaps.
VardaValar1: Go ahead. I'm scattered on side windows, might not be paying proper attention
ArPharazonV: well, not right now, obviously, I'm in the meeting
ArPharazonV: story, yes
Orodreth V: But I'd argue that.
Orodreth V: Story, you have got to be kidding me.
ArPharazonV: if it wasn't for the Story of the Warcraft-universe, I would not like WoW
Orodreth V: I'm not talking backstory.
ArPharazonV: it's the lore, the quests, all that, that interests me
Orodreth V: I'm talking plot.
ArPharazonV: the quest-plot too
ArPharazonV: the Onyxia-sequence, for example
ArPharazonV: the Sceptre-line for AQ
Orodreth V: I've played WoW. At best you get loosly connected storys, and the occasional queststring that goes together.
ArPharazonV: there's good plot in that
GilraenV: But I personally find a lot of the lore come across within the quests is confusing, because I lack the backstory, the background, to place the events mentioned in context
Orodreth V: There's no big picture in the game itself.
VardaValar1: I like picking up the backstory. Starts out with it for the world and character, and the books all over the world tell more.
ArPharazonV: perhaps not... but it expands on a lot of the backstory
GilraenV: I think poor Gwai is sick of explaining who people are and what on earth this-and-such means to me :-)
ArPharazonV: I've played warcraft 1-3 with expansions, and WoW.... just looking for the novels and rpg-books
VardaValar1: I have not looked. Does WoW have a place online that gives the backstory with any detail?
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GilraenV: Not that I have seen
ArPharazonV: I see WoW as a culmination of the all the threads
ArPharazonV: yes, it has
ArPharazonV: *does*
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ArPharazonV: or do you mean inside WoW itself?
GilraenV: perhaps on some of the fansites, but not that I've seen on the main website
VardaValar1: I meant WoW website
Orodreth V: Go play King's Quest, that's plot.
Orodreth V: Novel-quality story.
VardaValar1: Wondered if we needed to do it on ours, might get a volunteer
Orodreth V: The backstory if WoW is great, but WoW has no plot, no goal.
ArPharazonV: isn't enough?
ArPharazonV: with the other chapters
VardaValar1: Each race has a special goal
ArPharazonV: that is the official backstory
VardaValar1: We are also trying to get together against the threat to the world, something that has to do with the big bug problem and the Gate opening.
Orodreth V: Ar, I can write a backstory for Doom to make Tolkien jealous, but that does not give the thing plot. :p
ArPharazonV: well, Varda asked for the backstory
VardaValar1: There is an uneasy alliance between Horde and Alliance for this
VardaValar1: I am asking if they have it written out, as Gilraen mentioned that it's hard to find in one piece.
ArPharazonV: well, follow the link
VardaValar1: It would be nice to see it neatly laid out
ArPharazonV: it's as detailed as it gets
Orodreth V: I'll grant you it's hard to do plot in a MMORPG, but it's been done in MUDs, the spiritual ancestor of MMORPGs.
VardaValar1: Sure, have the link now
Orodreth V: And it's been done in other MMOs.
VardaValar1: Sometimes you just have to pay attention
ArPharazonV: indeed
ArPharazonV: there isn't one plotline in WoW, but there are a lot of major and minor ones
ArPharazonV: including wars between the dragonflight and the dwarves, dwarves fighting among themselves, a revived cult trying to summon the Old Gods...
VardaValar1: There is a main plot line, and a new huge one coming in right now
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VardaValar1: Burning Legion
ArPharazonV: true, taht
ArPharazonV: *that
VardaValar1: Aiya Glorfindel : )
Orodreth V: Ar, there's a huge difference between plotlines and a real PLOT.
Glorfindel VG: hello :-)
Orodreth V: Unrelated stories do not a plot make.
VardaValar1: Ok, Orodreth, you've stated your opinion ; )
GilraenV: none of the plotlines really seem to go anywhere, though
Orodreth V: Fine, fine.
VardaValar1: They are related, but you need to go back
ArPharazonV: aye
VardaValar1: We have a question on LotRO
VardaValar1: Earendil, some of us do go to the LotRO forum
gelondil2: just wanted to see if anybody else frequents the forums there? I've been checking in on that (and Vanguard) pretty regularly
VardaValar1: We have our own thread there, if you'd like to comment in it
gelondil2: I saw one that was over a year old, if there was another I don't know of it
VardaValar1: Also, Elatan has our page on LotRO and posts info there
VardaValar1: We didn't need to post there, much, as we have our own LotRO rp on our own Forum
VardaValar1: Have you checked it out yet?
gelondil2: which? elatan's page?
VardaValar1: Did you ever post on our LotRO page thread?
VardaValar1: No, our rp is on our Valar forum
VardaValar1: It's gotten pretty long : )
ArPharazonV: Scouting Ahead!
VardaValar1: Right : )
gelondil2: the only thread on LOTRO forums was the guild recruitment page
gelondil2: *that I saw
gelondil2: mostly I was just wondering when I was over on their forums if I was reading any posts by our members who go there regularly
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VardaValar1: We have some who have posted on some of the Tolkien subjects
VardaValar1: We also comment here sometimes on the new classes in LotRO
VardaValar1: We mostly lurk : )
gelondil2: thats what I was guessing :-)
VardaValar1: Do you post, and what name?
gelondil2: Gelondil - I post a couple times once a week
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gelondil2: but it's slow news over there, so not much to talk about
VardaValar1: Did you eve post to our thread?
VardaValar1: Just to say you are there, and let us put you on our friend list?
VardaValar1: Welcome back
gelondil2: the one I read was OLD like a year old - I was thinking it would be better to start a fresh one rather than bump an old one.
VardaValar1: No point in a new one
VardaValar1: The old one has all our info and people in one place
gelondil2: and I wasn't sure even if I responded that anybody would read it :-)
gelondil2: ok, I haven't seen that one
VardaValar1: So you also just lurked
gelondil2: no
VardaValar1: as far as our thread went
VardaValar1: We have one that lists our links
gelondil2: well, yes, but as far as I knew the thread was dead and buried :-)
VardaValar1: It is if no one posts
VardaValar1: Eonwe and I got tired of talking to ourselves
gelondil2: yeah, that's not the one I read
VardaValar1: We only have one official one
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VardaValar1: Which one you mean, I don't know
VardaValar1: It is under guild recruitment, though
VardaValar1: I'll go back and look at it, but I hate to post after my own post
VardaValar1: Ok, so we need to be present again on LotRO online, good point
VardaValar1: Any other gaming news?
Orodreth V: Bot's up and running.
Orodreth V: Has been for, uh..
Orodreth V: 6 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes and 22 seconds.
Orodreth V: Havn't seen anyone all week though.
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VardaValar1: Okies, we need to all hit the Valar channel in Battlenet and shock Orodreth's bot : )
ArPharazonV: aye, the little War3 I did this week was single-player
ArPharazonV: I figured with all the crashing, going bnet wasn't worth it
VardaValar1: Remember to go to the Valar channel, and not directly from the lobby to the game, to do it : )
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gelondil2: I saw a copy of D2 for $6 at a store the other day, almost considered buying it :-)
FarmerMaggotV: :o
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Have you guys noticed a suspiciously lot of Tolkien references in WoW? : )
FarmerMaggotV: heh, doesn't surprise me
gelondil2: that wouldn't suprise me, but no - can't say as I had
VardaValar1: We saw a guy selling The 1 Ring in the channel
VardaValar1: Take a look
ArPharazonV: "not as good as the 2 ring"
VardaValar1: The jokes in the human male's repertoire includes the whole story : )
VardaValar1: Right, Phar!
ArPharazonV: I've heard of it, adds +1 to all stats
gelondil2: lol, oh yeah, I remember that now :-)
ArPharazonV: and I remember the human joke as well
VardaValar1: I've seen Myth'randir and Sinda selling stuff, npc's
gelondil2: blizz has lots of outside references :-)
VardaValar1: Right, Earendil
GilraenV: Some of the names are a bit iffy too
VardaValar1: But we're interested in the Tolkien ones
gelondil2: I realize that :-)
ArPharazonV: I won't be making it myself, though... dwarf female and human male are the 2 race/gender combinations not included among my characters
VardaValar1: I could go into Hemingway, but that's a tad off-topic
gelondil2: I'm just pointing out - that's one of the things that makes them great - their sense of humor :-)
VardaValar1: I agree
ArPharazonV: WoW has some Discworld-references too, I heard
gelondil2: I'm not changing the topic :P
Menelvagor Valar: time for me to head to bed.
ArPharazonV: g'night, Menel
Menelvagor Valar: good night!
VardaValar1: Namarie!
Orodreth V: Oh, if I havn't mentioned it, my charname in Eve is Debes Sparre, I'm a minmatar based on the Heimatar/Derelik border. I'm a member of a wealth redistribution corporation.
Orodreth V: I'm a poor sod right now, only have 500k, but if anyone joins and isn't amarr, I'll wire them some cash.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Oro! That is a big help
ArPharazonV: only have 500k?
Orodreth V: Yea.
Orodreth V: Like I said, I'm poor. :p
Menelvagor Valar: Oro, that means you'll constantly have to redistribute the cash, for once the first redistribution is complete, the original owners will be poor, and the new owners rich, meaning another redistribution is needed to make up for the..
Menelvagor Valar: new gap
ArPharazonV: guess money is worth a lot less in Eve than in WoW
Menelvagor Valar: of course Phar.
Orodreth V: Okay, let me give you a frame of reference. Moderatly large corporations often have wallets around 10bil
Menelvagor Valar: 500g in DaoC is also a lot less than in WoW>
Menelvagor Valar: yes, but you're an employee, not the corp 8-)
VardaValar1: Guys, I suggest you go play the games next, join each other, and I'll go head back to the website and work on it
ArPharazonV: neh, going to bed soon
Orodreth V: Granted, but wealthy players have 2b+
Orodreth V: If you havn't broken a billion, you're not rich. :p
ArPharazonV: tomorrow I have to get up at 9am, and in the afternoon, I'm gonna start working on a Prehistory-project with a few classmates...
ArPharazonV: gonna be a looong day
Orodreth V: Anyways, I'm off.
VardaValar1: On Lothar, we have Gil-galad, Fangorn, and Sauron...
Menelvagor Valar: aye Phar, the only game I will be playing in the coming 6 hours is "How to regulate the heartbeat for optimal recovery" :-D
VardaValar1: Gil-galad seems to be off now
gelondil2: easy way to compare the markets here - first-day beginner loot is about 100k-1m in Eve... In WoW, it's about 10s-1g iirc?
ArPharazonV: not that I don't like those classmates...
VardaValar1: Just those two, atm
VardaValar1: Namarie
Menelvagor Valar: lol Phar.
ArPharazonV: they're 2 girls, and I've been in love with each of them, and neither found out... so this is going to be an interesting project
Menelvagor Valar: gotta be up at 7 (which, incidentally, is late for me)
Menelvagor Valar: uhm...
VardaValar1: I'll leave the chat up for a bit
Menelvagor Valar: LOOOL?
GilraenV: oh dear, Phara
VardaValar1: Stay alive, Phar!
ArPharazonV: yupyup
Menelvagor Valar: make up your mind and tell one :-)
ArPharazonV: I don't think I'm in love with either of them atm
Menelvagor Valar: anyways, gone to bed.
Menelvagor Valar: nighty
ArPharazonV: but I have been in love with both of them
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: at the same time, for a short while...
VardaValar1: Any Tolkien topics?
ArPharazonV: but knowing me, this is going to get my heart pumping again... it wouldn't be the first time I had a relapse of being in love just because I spend a bit of time with a girl again...

VardaValar1: Is Silmarillion written like the Bible? Too dense or just right?
ArPharazonV: Silmarillion? Bible? I made that comparison often on a forum...
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VardaValar1: How about trying it here
ArPharazonV: the pro-bible side of the discussion wasn't too happy with that
VardaValar1: You were not doing it on our Forum
ArPharazonV: no, the war3 offtopic forum usually heats up about religious opinions
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ArPharazonV: and that's when I usually make the comparison
gelondil2: too dense, but like the bible has some good epic tales - probably better told as a story than read from a book
gelondil2: in small installments
VardaValar1: Most of the stories are just notes intended to be made into full-fledged stories like LotR.
ArPharazonV: so I don't think my comparison would be suited for a more objective look at the details
VardaValar1: Even LotR was left very open for others to add in stories.
VardaValar1: Ok, so Phar does not want to discuss this topic : )
ArPharazonV: it's ok
ArPharazonV: I'll be going anyways
VardaValar1: bye Phar
VardaValar1: Feel free to pick another
VardaValar1: Too dense on the stories or not, Phar?
ArPharazonV: I might be able to contribute some to this topic, but not at this time
VardaValar1: okies
ArPharazonV: Silm? too dense? aye
ArPharazonV: but otherwise it would cover like 10000 pages
VardaValar1: So we have to remember they were intended just as notes
VardaValar1: They were a condensation of the entire HoMe
ArPharazonV: I would not like it if it's scale was toned down just to give more detail
VardaValar1: Oh no! Make a lonnnng series!
ArPharazonV: I once played with that thought
VardaValar1: I think we all have : )
VardaValar1: It's a mythology, intended for us to add to it
ArPharazonV: but all of my fanfiction usually takes place just out of the scale to avoid bumping into already established but overseen facts
VardaValar1: So we have our Stories and Poetry section. Dive in : )
ArPharazonV: I have 2 major stories, barely started, one takes place 3000 years after lotr, the other takes places 10000 years later on a group of islands in the ocean to the southwest
VardaValar1: There are plenty of holes to fill in, or use the myth as background for your story.
ArPharazonV: the first was to make the connection between modern history and the Lotr-universe
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ArPharazonV: the other I started as in independent story but grew links with the Silm as I went along in the thought-process
ArPharazonV: *as an
gelondil2: test*
gelondil2: ok, thought I had d/c there :-)
ArPharazonV: I just feel out of place when I dive in the main stories... like I don't have the authority
ArPharazonV: btw, is there any fanfiction you know of concerning Maglor's Silmaril after it was cast in the sea?
ArPharazonV: since it plays an integral part in one of my stories ;-)
gelondil2: well, I'm sure none of the stories takes place that far into the future :-)
VardaValar1: I don't see that other's fanfic has any bearing, just what Tolkien said
ArPharazonV: true
ArPharazonV: and is there anything Tolkien said?
VardaValar1: Some fanfic goes quite well into the future
VardaValar1: The silmaril went back to Ulmo in that fashion, and Maglor sung by the sea ever after
ArPharazonV: I think it's indestructable, something I have to take into account in my story
VardaValar1: Each silmaril went back to a particular Vala, in some fashion. Earendil carried one into the sky as a star
ArPharazonV: in my story it washes up on the shores of a certain island far to the southwest, has a history of about 11000 years there
VardaValar1: One went into the earth back to Aule, and one into the sea back to Ulmo
ArPharazonV: before being either destroyed or cast back into the sea
ArPharazonV: I guess I'll have to go with the casting back
ArPharazonV: act 6 isn't that fleshed out yet
VardaValar1: That silmaril belongs to Ulmo, so that needs dealt with
VardaValar1: He did help people out on his own, and might allow it's use for a time
gelondil2: ulmo's sneaky that way
VardaValar1: It would have to be returned, voluntarily or not
VardaValar1: Nice sneaky : )
gelondil2: also, just because ulmo had it doesn't mean he keeps his eyes on it 24/7
ArPharazonV: it isn't necessarily an artefact of good, in the end.... it sits in a magic necklace (yes, magic is actually in my story, I figured it would come into the world somewhere in those 10000 years)
gelondil2: he could have put in into the care of a maia who then "lost" it
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ArPharazonV: it's an integral part of an item that grants immortality, an item that gets corrupted and bound to an evil sorcerer
ArPharazonV: the sorcerer dies, but stays bound to the necklace, and starts to possess the orcish leader who gains hold of it
ArPharazonV: in the end, the only way to defeat him is to utterly destroy the necklace and get rid of the silmaril forever... which would indeed mean either its destruction or casting it back in the sea
ArPharazonV: but anyway, the silmaril will be returned to Ulmo then
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ArPharazonV: and no, the necklace is not made of gold and destroyed in a volcano ;-)
gelondil2: hehe
ArPharazonV: it's made of a very strong new metal, like gold in appearance, but is highly destructive when impacting another item of the same metal... have yet to fill in the details
ArPharazonV: in either case, by the main story, it's the only object left made of that metal, and thus is practically indestructable
ArPharazonV: the metal is actually delved from the side of a volcano... but in the climax of a war the entire mountain blows up, leaving behind nothing but a scatter of islands
ArPharazonV: the main story takes place on these
ArPharazonV: yesh, it's a fine story, has been in my head for at least a year or 2 now...
ArPharazonV: but still very sketchily on paper
ArPharazonV: I could send them to the website by chapter, but I have a feeling I'll want to do a lot of revising as I get further in
gelondil2: helps with continuity too
gelondil2: if you have an idea for the story that might have been important to fill in some back-story earlier
ArPharazonV: yep
ArPharazonV: 6 acts and a pretty lengthy prologue...
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ArPharazonV: might be including the story of the prologue in act 5 or 6 instead, though....
ArPharazonV: let the story come full circle, so to speak

ArPharazonV: but I really have to go now
ArPharazonV: time for bed
gelondil2: night :-)
ArPharazonV: will be saving and sending
ArPharazonV: saved
gelondil2 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: transcript sent
ArPharazonV: Namarie all!
ArPharazonV has left the room.
Orodreth V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back
Orodreth V: Yar.
Orodreth V: My mouse died.
VardaValar1: Battery?
gelondil2 has entered the room.
Orodreth V: No.
Orodreth V: Wired.
Orodreth V: Which gave me a 'huh' moment.
Orodreth V: So I unplug it, put it into my laptop.
Orodreth V: Turns on.
Orodreth V: I say 'Not the USB port!'
Orodreth V: Turn off computer, spray canned air in there (havn't cleaned it for like 6 months), an it works.
Orodreth V: long it stays this way is anyone's guess.
Orodreth V: Anyways, off to redistribute some wealth. :-)
VardaValar1: Fun : )
Orodreth V: Has no one picked up on what I do in Eve? :p
GilraenV: thief? :-P
gelondil2: I know what "redistributing wealth" is :-)
gelondil2: only thing I wonder is who you are redistributing it from
gelondil2: either way, sounds like something minmatar would do.
GilraenV: I'm off now
GilraenV: namarie folks
GilraenV has left the room.
gelondil2: I think I'm off too, have to visit the little hobbit's room... then visit the big hobbit's room.
gelondil2: the latter being the kitchen!
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VardaValar1: ok, looks like I'd better change that Finrod index
VardaValar1: It was mistaken as an article
VardaValar1: Namarie