Valar Guild

August 27, 2006 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 

Attending (11):
    Members: Bombur-(V)/MrMonkey2002Blah, Caranthir-(V)/ MoriFinwe, Earendil-(Valar)gelondil2, Eonwe Valar, FinduilasV, Gil-galad-(V)/ Xseanzee disco, Menelvagor Valar, Orodreth V/ Oessala, VardaValar1 (presiding)
    Visitors: Sarujil (rejoined in the After-meeting as Ancalagon-(V), Srekal86. Oladys123 dropped by after the meeting, friend of Finduilas, read LotR several times.

Meeting begins
    Ancalagon/Sarujil found and rejoined us.
    Earendil is now available on Sundays due to shift in work schedule.
    Tolkien site:
            Project: Numenorean Kings
            What's New in the Articles page
            New: "In the Chamber of Mazarbul" by He that Walks Unseen-(TV)
            Poetry project started by He that Walks Unseen-(TV). Poets requested.
            New author: Nightwing
       "Scouting Ahead" rp in the Forum for the Valar Guild. New posts made this week.
    Finduilas' new Middle-earth forum of her own, but to which we are welcome to come, and the forum that she's dropped.
    Vanguard game report by Earendil
        Lothar report by Eonwe
        Uldaman report by Varda
    Battle for Middle-earth 2 (BFMe2) by Eonwe
    Lord of the Rings Online (LotRO) report by Eonwe
    Well of Souls (WoS) report by Orodreth
    Sam's role. Topic from Sarujil
    Ancalagon-(V) rejoined with a 5/5 test!
    Orodreth-(V) made his WoS report
    Ancalagon and Caranthir's new characters were invited into the guild branches on Lothar and Uldaman.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya Orodreth! :-)
FinduilasV has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Hi Fin, Menel :-)
MrMonkey2002Blah has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Heya Bombur :-)
FinduilasV: Aiya thee
VardaValar1: Did I get the time right, heh?
FinduilasV: yes very much so *smiles&
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
Sarujil has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Sarujil :-)
Sarujil: hi
VardaValar1: See you after dinner, Sar
VardaValar1: Menel, are you gaming too?
VardaValar1: Probably is
VardaValar1: What are working on, Bombur?
VardaValar1: Well, I'm going to go ahead and start, and you guys can jump in or scroll as needed.

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Sarujil, who has just been called away to dinner, is
VardaValar1: our old Ancalagon from Diablo 1 days.
VardaValar1: By a wonderful coincidence, he spotted Merry and myself on WoW Lothar in Felwood and said hi
Menelvagor Valar: alt-tabbing yes, trying to get in favor with the Gelkis Clan Centaurs *smile*
VardaValar1: He has been to a Tolkien seminar recently
VardaValar1: Ahh, rep. That is a forever quest. :0
VardaValar1: Anyway, he came to see us tonight and hopes to complete the rejoin that we started there.
VardaValar1: Is something going on today, some holiday? What happened to everyone? : )
gelondil2 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
VardaValar1: Glad you could make it. : )
gelondil2: me too :-)
VardaValar1: Do you have any membership news, such as what we just caught you in the middle of? ; )
Menelvagor Valar: I think everyone is busy getting back to school life :)
Menelvagor Valar: or enjoying the last shreds of vacation.
VardaValar1: That could be a lot of it
VardaValar1: Finwe had to go to a different store location and can't come in here as he used to.
gelondil2: membership news = Earendil no longer works Sundays! (But still eats in the afternoon)
VardaValar1: hehe
gelondil2: just got home
VardaValar1: We try to run long enough so you can eat and come back
VardaValar1: Welcome home!
VardaValar1: Sarujil was just called away to eat too. : )
VardaValar1: Or maybe we don't try to, but we do.
VardaValar1: The scroll is your friend. ;-)
VardaValar1: Wow, everyone is in side windows!
FinduilasV: I am listening :-)
VardaValar1: Yay Fin!

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Web stuff is something we can all do and enjoy and yet it costs nothing. :-)
VardaValar1: Here's a little of what's been going on this week:
VardaValar1: In Tolkien articles
VardaValar1: we have the Numenorean Kings articles all made
VardaValar1: They are rigged so you can start at the first and go through them by links reading the history of Numenor.
VardaValar1: If you'd like to add articles to flesh out the story, especially where it has very little, please do.
VardaValar1: The next project is to do the same with the next set of kings and other things that help us make a history story line.
VardaValar1: Elves are also good for this, such as trying to follow the silmaril stories.
VardaValar1: If you have a particular history line you'd like to delve into with bits to help it run, please let me know by email or AIM or just sending the bit!
FinduilasV: will do , especially sinice i got fascinated by the second age
FinduilasV: but give me time
VardaValar1: This can be any Age or group
VardaValar1: Sure! Welcome to the Timeless Halls!
VardaValar1: One advantage of Valar, no deadlines.
FinduilasV: somewhat busy and say hmm turbulent in my rl
VardaValar1: True for nearly everyone, one reason we need a Valar Guild.
VardaValar1: In further Web news,
VardaValar1: we have a new poem by He That Walks Unseen
VardaValar1: "In the Chamber of Mazarbul"
VardaValar1: He has suggested a poetry project that some of us might enjoy working with him on.
VardaValar1: He suggests that in Tolkien's works there are long works that include shorter ones, quite a few.
VardaValar1: We can do a group of smaller poetry that goes inside a larger story.
VardaValar1: He already has some very cool ideas for them that I would like to pass on to you. In regular fan fiction they might be called "plot bunnies".
Menelvagor Valar: As much as I hate to say this, but I'm incredibly tired and will go to bed now.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie and see you all next week.
gelondil2: Namarie
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
FinduilasV: Namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie
VardaValar1: I'm going to copy/paste a little of what he said:
VardaValar1: "The Lay of Leithian is one example and other instances corrrespond to the Fall of Gil Galad, the passage narrating the last alliance and The Shadow of The Past from the Fellowship of the Ring.
VardaValar1: Based on this context, I foresee a poem telling an untold story and using the following elements and voices:
VardaValar1: "
VardaValar1: Now here's his ideas. I hope you find them as fun as I do or can add to them.
VardaValar1: 1. A man who stood beside Isildur as he cut Sauron's hand with the shards of Narsil.
VardaValar1: 2. An elf who beheld the fall of Fingolfin and thanks to whom the story is known.
VardaValar1: 3. The Old Took and his adventures told by Bilbo the day before Gandalf showed up with the dwarves.
VardaValar1: 4. The fate of Bolg's offpring after the battle of the five armies.
VardaValar1: 5. Bilbo's dream on Beorn's Fate
VardaValar1: 6. The fall of Sauron told by himself.
VardaValar1: 7. An wood-elf who saw Sauron conjuring spells in a Giant Tree planted in Greenwoord the Great and who by keeping such secret was eventually turned into the spirit of the forest.
VardaValar1: 8. A battle involving Tom Bombadil and the creature who was turned into Old Man Willow.
VardaValar1: Well, these is just brainstorming. I hope I did not confuse you with all my ink-thirsty demons."
VardaValar1: These sound like fun ideas to try, and just finding a way to link them all would be some major creativity!
VardaValar1: For those of you who would like to read more stories,
VardaValar1: we have a new author.
VardaValar1: Nightwing, who is writing the novel-length pre-LotR story,
VardaValar1: "To See a World"
VardaValar1: has said we can post her story here.
VardaValar1: She thinks it will take another year to complete, because she is having trouble accessing a computer to upload and is having family problems as so many are.
VardaValar1: Plus the normal real life stuff, but she just keeps plugging away at it, and it's interesting reading.
VardaValar1: It will be going up on the Incomplete Story section for now, if you'd like to start reading it.
VardaValar1: Or you can wait until completion, when it will be linked from the Completed Stories area.
VardaValar1: Does anyone else have any Web news?
FinduilasV: Yes sort of
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Fin : )
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
FinduilasV: I have deleted my Darkover Website and want to concentraon the bridge to Middlearth
MrMonkey2002Blah: uhhm eonwe?
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe : )
Eonwe Valar: If you got an invite from me just now, it's habit to make sure everyone's here when I come in :}
Eonwe Valar: And Heya :}
VardaValar1: Ok, so you have the website address handy?
VardaValar1: No worries, Eonwe. : )
FinduilasV: I have copied the timeline of the second age there from the Lotr , and hope to do a asimilar thing for the other ages
FinduilasV: aiya eonwe *grins*
FinduilasV: hold on,
VardaValar1: We also have an Events page on our Tolkien website, Fin, if you'd like to work with us on that.
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: I do try to put your personal web pages on the Members page now
VardaValar1: Eonwe says that he has no new Web news at the moment
VardaValar1: He needed a rest after programming for so long on the Games page!
FinduilasV: thats the correct one
VardaValar1: That link works.
VardaValar1: It goes to your Forum
FinduilasV: ayem thanks and its there for using ;-)
VardaValar1: Ours is too. : )
FinduilasV: yup and i do
FinduilasV: hihi
VardaValar1: Suggestions for our Forum are welcome from anyone, especially if they'll contribute to the suggestion!
VardaValar1: Speaking of the Forum : )
VardaValar1: new posts have been added this week to the RP "Scouting Ahead"
FinduilasV: yes really?
FinduilasV: *chuckles*
FinduilasV: so its just adding stuff like that?
VardaValar1: hehe -and Fin is a poster
VardaValar1: You lost me, Fin : )
VardaValar1: And since I changed the name of it
VardaValar1: you may need to re-set your email or bookmark warnings.
VardaValar1: ohh, Auros shows "disdain" for making the trip back through Mirkwood. ; )
VardaValar1: Might get a rise out of your Mirkwood buddies, but it's right after such a lovely compliment. heh
VardaValar1: I was trying to help set up our trip to Angband with the odd "feelings" coming in from Fainan's brother
VardaValar1: and we look about ready to head that way now?
Eonwe Valar: Angband, or Angmar?
VardaValar1: erk
VardaValar1: Angmar, heh
Eonwe Valar: I was under the impression we wanted to head back through Mirkwood.
VardaValar1: Sure, that works out great!
Eonwe Valar: First.
Eonwe Valar: We need not necessarily spend as much time there this time :}
VardaValar1: We seem to all be operating neatly together. Looks good
VardaValar1: I just found out that some folk here are unaware of the main project the Valar Guild does for Tolkien. Here it is:
FinduilasV: okay added it to favoites
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: You can also reach it from the main guild site
VardaValar1: Click Tolkien
VardaValar1: then click Tolkien Encyclopedia
VardaValar1: If this current system is too confusing, as it seems to be,
VardaValar1: we can change the Tolkien link to go directly to the Encyc
VardaValar1: the way we changed the Gaming one to go directly to Eonwe's Games page
Srekal86 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Srekal
Srekal86: 'lo
VardaValar1: Just finished up on a lot of web news, but one item left : )
VardaValar1: you might like!
Srekal86: ;-)
VardaValar1: I noticed that the What's New page for the articles has never been linked to the menus on the Encyc
VardaValar1: No wonder we get some blank looks.
VardaValar1: It's now available from either index.
VardaValar1: For those who don't want to wade through gaming news or news about stories and poems, that should be helpful.
VardaValar1: Any further web news from anyone?

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
FinduilasV has left the room.
FinduilasV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back : )
FinduilasV: thanks :-)
VardaValar1: Earendil, would you like to tell your news now?
gelondil2: ok
gelondil2: I've been following another MMOG besides LOTRO with lots of interest, called Vanguard...
gelondil2: It is being created by the some of the big names behind Everquest, and they're trying to recreate some of that old EQ feel, with new MMOG tech
gelondil2: It's in Beta 3 right now, due to come out sometime around December, though I expect a bit later
gelondil2: it has a player-friendly feel to it, it's not a PvP game so it won't attract quite the same people one would find in a game like WoW.
gelondil2: it will have player housing and towns and such - very community-friendly, if not LotR related
gelondil2: that's about it
gelondil2: oh, links...
gelondil2: &
VardaValar1: Thanks, Earendil! That's a lot of help!
gelondil2: not a huge amount of information is available on those websites, they've been very tight-lipped... but I can answer most questions about it if anybody has interest.
VardaValar1: So it's set in medieval type times? Fantasy of any sort?
gelondil2: yeah, classic fantasy setting, but lots of races
gelondil2: besides the classics, there are playable orcs, goblins, some animal-ish races...
gelondil2: dark elves... I'm missing a bunch I think
gelondil2: it's friendly though, no alliances, so an orc can group with an elf
gelondil2: thats all I have to say about the setting... if you want to see visuals, there are lots of screenshots on one or both of those links.
gelondil2: oh, one more thing - there will be naval travel & shipbuilding
VardaValar1: That sounds like quite a game! We'll have to check out the site for the latest news. Thanks, Earendil!
VardaValar1: Has anyone else played anything besides WoW this week?
gelondil2: np :-)
Eonwe Valar: Unless "Register for classes" and "Buy the textbook" counts, not I :}
VardaValar1: hehe
gelondil2: umm... lots :-)
Eonwe Valar: Tomorrow I'll be playing "Wake up early" and "Get to class on time" :}
VardaValar1: Eonwe, would you like to give your Gaming reports next?
Eonwe Valar: Sure
Eonwe Valar: WoW Report:  [Lothar]
Eonwe Valar: First, Varda and Merry completed "Falling into Corruption" in Felwood while Eonwë hunted Demon hounds, giant bats, and carrion worms in the Eastern Plaguelands.
Eonwe Valar: Then, these three got together, and joined by Draxcil/Beline and Sauron, they helped out the Fallen Champion of the Horde who stands at the passage into the Blasted Lands,
Eonwe Valar: first by killing some servants of Razelikh's trusted commanders [The Stones that Bind Us] (while killing the commanders in the process[Uniting the Shattered Amulet]), the by looking for Lt. Kirith.
Eonwe Valar: Once we returned with news of his fate, we were sent to Azshara to forge a weapon for the three of us who needed to kill the commanders.
Eonwe Valar: Unfortunately, right after killing the Hydra for part of the quest, Lothar died on us, so we went over to Uldaman and hung out for a while.
Eonwe Valar: BFME2 News: EA's working on an expansion in which you'll be playing on the Evil side to Help the Witch King in his rise to power over Angmar.
Eonwe Valar: LotRO news: New location revealed- The Party Tree :}
gelondil2: *dances*
Eonwe Valar: That's it for my report, and remember as always to check out the New Games Page and make sure your info is up-to-date.
Eonwe Valar: Back to you, Varda :}
VardaValar1: Thanks.
VardaValar1: WoW Uldaman Horde has been active, maybe more so than the Lothar group in just daily stuff.
VardaValar1: but we have no big high level guys yet. : )
VardaValar1: Uldaman is picking up some guild-friends who may be joining us as Full Members
VardaValar1: That's all my Uldaman report. : )
VardaValar1: If there is no further gaming news?

VardaValar1: We would normally go straight into Tolkien chat at this time.
VardaValar1: Sarujil, are you present?
Sarujil: aye
VardaValar1: Sarujil is Ancalagon-(V)-ex from Diablo 1 days.
VardaValar1: He spotted us in WoW Uldaman and asked about rejoining the Valar Guild.
gelondil2: wb :-)
Sarujil: thanks!
FinduilasV: Weloome :-)
VardaValar1: Ancalagon, I'd like to give you first shot at picking a Tolkien subject you'd like to discuss. We started one in game and had some trouble trying to talk. : )
Sarujil: well, we could talk a bit more about Sam's role if that's ok. Other than that I dont really have anything prepared :-)
VardaValar1: That was the one we were trying to talk about, aye : )
Eonwe Valar: Anything particular about Sam's role?
VardaValar1: How about, what was Sam's role? How was it different than that of others in the Fellowship?
VardaValar1: He was the only one not in a position of authority, for instance.
gelondil2: what about merry and pippen?
gelondil2: in
gelondil2: eh...
Eonwe Valar: Aye, he was the only one who wasn't an heir to someone, it seems.
FinduilasV: he was free tio give his full support to frodo
VardaValar1: Merry was the heir to the Brandybuck Warren, an important position.
FinduilasV: there was nothing else that bound him
VardaValar1: Pippin was heir to being the Thain.
FinduilasV: in terms of things such as plolitical authority
gelondil2: I hadn't considered those backgrounds... since they were left behind, so to speak :-)
VardaValar1: Merry and Pippin did indeed return to the Shire and fulfill those obligations.
VardaValar1: The Quest only took about one year.
gelondil2: only! :-)
VardaValar1: Our of a lifetime, aye.
VardaValar1: *Out
VardaValar1: Sam was different, since he had no obligation to anything but to support Frodo.
VardaValar1: Frodo was considered by Gandalf, a student of such things, to be the best hobbit in the Shire.
VardaValar1: He was intended to be the Ringbearer.
VardaValar1: That meant he would have to carry a load no one else on Middle-earth could.
VardaValar1: He needed a completely trustworthy helper.
gelondil2: well, I'd say that Merry and Pippin went out of friendship as well... whatever their obligations in the shire, they didn't carry those with them when they left.
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad : )
Xseanzee disco: good evening everyone!
Sarujil: Merry and Pippin were never in a position to serve, though.
gelondil2: gimli, legolas, and boromir I'd agree went along as 'representatives' of their respective peoples.
VardaValar1: Are you thinking that anyone who went with Frodo was neglecting his duties?
FinduilasV: Aiya , gil galad :-) I think at least
VardaValar1: Perhaps they felt they were fulfilling their duties by seeing to it that their people had a place to live in?
Sarujil: or fulfilling the genetic drives of their adventurous bloodlines :-)
gelondil2: well, remember - they understood the importance of Frodo's quest... no matter what Frodo said, the hobbits never really saw the "big picture" until they were staring it in the face.
gelondil2: imo
VardaValar1: Merry, maybe a little.
VardaValar1: Only Frodo really got it, aye.
VardaValar1: They were loyal help : )
gelondil2: yeah, Merry at least understood the peril
Eonwe Valar: Well, both Merry and Pippin were still young (Pippin still not yet 33, the age of adulthood) and were not bound by any official obligations as of yet.
VardaValar1: Plus, we had two sets of hobbits to confuse the trail!
gelondil2: As for Sam's role... I'd say "friend" - and all that being a good friend implies...
VardaValar1: Some claim that Sam was the biggest hero of the whole LotR.
Sarujil: Nah, the biggest hero was Bill the Pony. Sam is a close second, though
gelondil2: hah
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: We had a long running joke that Bill the Pony's name should be Maia status. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Here's one that'll make you think... The Witch-King, because his attack set Frodo straight on the tricks the Ring would try to pull on him.
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
gelondil2: Yes, Varda, I was thinking that too - and what does that tell us about the importance of friendship in LotR? :-)
VardaValar1: Paramount.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe. That's practically a Silmarillion reference.
VardaValar1: Eru said that all the devices of the Enemy would be turned to server Eru.
VardaValar1: *serve
VardaValar1: to be turned to good.
Sarujil: i think to be qualified as a true hero though, you have to at least be content with the outcome of your actions. it seems to me that the Witch-King would have been a bit disappointed at best
Eonwe Valar: I'd say he was satisfied up until the flood :}
gelondil2: I'm not 100% sure I get where you're going Eonwe - I presume you're saying that it's a good thing they attacked Frodo earlier lest he put the ring on while walking through Mordor?
VardaValar1: the Witch-king was not made into a hero. His actions were used to help the cause of the good side.
VardaValar1: Not by his intention.
Sarujil: perhaps a more accurate adjective would be a 'fateful' thing
Eonwe Valar: I was making a joking comment that the Witch-King is the biggest hero.
VardaValar1: This happens a lot
Eonwe Valar: But it was one that'd make you think too.
gelondil2: not unlike all the hollywood villains who give away their plans in a moment of pride, and thus tell the hero how to defeat them? :-)
VardaValar1: hehe3
Sarujil: the lotr is a wonderful rarity in that we never see the main villain, let alone hear a big speech by him
VardaValar1: Lucky us!
gelondil2: villains are scarier that way
VardaValar1: He remains mysterious and more terrifying.
VardaValar1: More the Big Unknown.

MrMonkey2002Blah has left the room.
VardaValar1: We are now setting up to do some Tolkien chat with Sarujil here. :-)
VardaValar1: Everyone wish him luck!
gelondil2: test?
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Get that -ex off his name. ;-)
VardaValar1: He wants Ancalagon back!
FinduilasV: good luck , Saruji then :-) May the Valar guide you
Sarujil: thanks
Oessala has entered the room.
Orodreth V: Look, I made it too the meeting!
Orodreth V: I was here afore all ya.
gelondil2: hehe
gelondil2: hiya :-)
Orodreth V: I do have three hours late gamining news of Varada can add it as a suppliment.
Eonwe Valar: I don't think Varada is here. Will Varda and I do? :}
gelondil2: 3 hours worth? I dunno, that's a lot of news.
Orodreth V: Quite, yee.
Orodreth V: I'm restarting Elvondel.
Orodreth V: :-)
Orodreth V: Read the WoS forums.
Orodreth V: That is all.
Eonwe Valar: Ah, I told everyone that for you last week :}
VardaValar1: oh, yay!
VardaValar1: Is it up now?
VardaValar1: As in usable?
gelondil2: the whosawhatsits?
VardaValar1: Well of Souls world that Orodreth was making : )
VardaValar1: Not sure I can spell that, Earendil!
Orodreth V: Oh you did? Oh. Thanks.
Orodreth V: /me must read logs closer
Eonwe Valar: MP :}
Orodreth V: Useable? No. I had to restart, for one.
VardaValar1: It's at the very end of the transcript, Orodreth. : )
FinduilasV: Ancalagon is back in the guild :-)
FinduilasV: Namarie to all others
FinduilasV: !
FinduilasV has left the room.
Srekal86 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back to the Valar Guild, Ancalagon-(V)! :-)
Eonwe Valar: Welcome back, Ancalagon :}
gelondil2: wb
Sarujil: Thanks everyone :-) Glad to be back
VardaValar1: =)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Orodreth V: /me is listening to Tom Lehrer
VardaValar1: We're now talking webwork and about to head into WoW : )
gelondil2: guess I'll be going then :-)
gelondil2: not that I'm not half gone already
gelondil2: namarie
VardaValar1: The meeting is over, after the Tolkien chat finished
VardaValar1: Thanks for
VardaValar1: helping us test!
VardaValar1: Namarie!
gelondil2: i've been playing video games in the background ;-)
gelondil2 has left the room.
MoriFinwe has entered the room.
MoriFinwe: Aiya
VardaValar1: hehe - I just got the name straight!
MoriFinwe: i found out how to invite myself finally lol
VardaValar1: You found a way in? : )
VardaValar1: oh yay!
VardaValar1: Are you also on Lothar?
VardaValar1: At the same time I mean?
MoriFinwe: Who me?
VardaValar1: yes you : )
MoriFinwe: im logging onto lothar right now
Eonwe Valar: Heya Caranthir :}
VardaValar1: Bunch of us headed that way
MoriFinwe: Aiya
VardaValar1: I have to go upstairs to get on
VardaValar1: So see you guys there! Woohoo!
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
VardaValar1: or maybe Uldaman server
VardaValar1: Mori, we have Horde on Uldaman server, Valar Guild branch, same set-up
MoriFinwe: yea i know i made a char on their but no one was on to invite me :-(
VardaValar1: Ok, do it now and we can
VardaValar1: I'll head to Uldaman
VardaValar1: *puff*
Eonwe Valar: ok :}
MoriFinwe: no im on lothar
MoriFinwe: we do it some other time :-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe can handle Lothar and I'll handle Uldaman, Ancalagon is in Uldaman and needs invite too
VardaValar1: cheers!
Eonwe Valar: Lothar's got a bit of lag on it.