Valar Guild

April 23, 2006 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 23:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon-(V), Varda-(Valar)

Attending (14)
    Members: ArPharazonV, Arwen V1, Bombur-(V)/MrMonkey2002Blah, Eonwe Valar, Finrod-(V)/TH0R0NGIL, FladrifV, Gilraen-(V)/Star of Phaet, GwaihirValar, HalethV/Druidfalconwolf, Menelvagor Valar, Olwe-(V)/FallenGlory, VardaValar1
    Guests: LaurealasseHelka, Srekal86

Meeting Begins
    Haleth's topic: Would it have been for the better if Faramir hadn't followed his father's orders?
    Did the raiders bring any sieging equipment?
    rp group meeting
    More Tolkien: Pharazon located a quote he was looking for during an earlier discussion about another union of men and elf, during the saga of Turin

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
LaurealasseHelka has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
LaurealasseHelka: Heya. *grin*
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: might be a bit absent in the beginning, I'm setting up my final wishlist for raidloot ;-)
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: Wishing is fun
LaurealasseHelka: Heh, hey.
ArPharazonV: 17 items for Blackwing Lair already...
ArPharazonV: ah, settling at 18
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
FallenGlory has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
FallenGlory: Howdy
Eonwe Valar: Heya
LaurealasseHelka: Hey
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arwen : )
LaurealasseHelka: Hey
Srekal86 has entered the room.
FladrifV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
FladrifV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
MrMonkey2002Blah has entered the room.
Star of Phaet has entered the room.
Srekal86: /me waves
Star of Phaet: Goodness, how sundays seem to fly
TH0R0NGIL has entered the room.
VardaValar1: They do indeed. : )
VardaValar1: Aiya Finrod
VardaValar1: Aiya everybody : )
FladrifV: do trees have body's?
VardaValar1: Yes!
VardaValar1: If you think not, run into one.
VardaValar1: Very corporeal.
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Laure is visiting with us today, found our site and wanted to say hi
Eonwe Valar: Greetings
LaurealasseHelka: *nods to all*
ArPharazonV: greetings!
VardaValar1: Shall we start now? : )

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Welcome to all who came, and please feel free to contribute.
VardaValar1: Whisper the chair so we can be sure to include everyone during the meeting, no one left out.
VardaValar1: Membership Report:
VardaValar1: Gimli, our newest member, has been very active with us in WoW Lothar, sends greetings.
VardaValar1: Greetings also from Eowyn, Bilbo, and Sauron.
VardaValar1: Does anyone have any member news?
Eonwe Valar: Greetings to them all.
VardaValar1: Laure is a gentleman visiting our chat, who found us through the website
VardaValar1: Laure, how may we be of help?
LaurealasseHelka: Well, I am not totally sure. I have every intention of joining, but I wanted to know more about the group, too.
VardaValar1: You are interested in the Tolkien part, not the online gaming?
LaurealasseHelka: ((The site is a bit hard to navigate, and I am working at the same time, so...)
LaurealasseHelka: No, I am interested in both.
VardaValar1: If you would whisper with me about the navigation problem, I'll see what can be done for it.
LaurealasseHelka: Sure.
VardaValar1: You mentioned an interest in MUSH gaming?
LaurealasseHelka: Yes. Does anyone here know what a MUSH is?
VardaValar1: Most of us do
LaurealasseHelka: Ah, ok.
LaurealasseHelka: Well, I am highly active on both RPI MUDs and MUSHes.
ArPharazonV: ...what's MUSH?
LaurealasseHelka: So, I am interested in maybe doing that with some of you. A MUSH is a Multi-User Shared Hallucination. It's a text-based game, in real-time, and you RP with other people.
VardaValar1: It's what we do on the Forum, but live instead of over long times between posts?
LaurealasseHelka: Yes, pretty much.
Srekal86: I played the T2T MUD, quite fun.
Eonwe Valar: T2T?
VardaValar1: Ahh, and Laure is interested in WoW Lothar : )
Eonwe Valar: I see. I usually just abbreviate Two Towers to TT, leaving out the "The" :}
Druidfalconwolf has entered the room.
Druidfalconwolf: rejoining as Haleth, brb
Druidfalconwolf has left the room.
Haleth V has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: wb :}
Haleth V: Aiya all =)
VardaValar1: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Ok, shall we move on? : )

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Still sweating out the revamping of the Tolkien navigation
Srekal86: What kind of revamping?
VardaValar1: The section in which all the articles are being separated, then usable for various search things we are trying to come up with
Srekal86: ah, how are you separating them?
VardaValar1: The way you can see on nearly any page of the Encyc now, except the Mankind section which is still being worked on
VardaValar1: Indexes for all the articles, such as a Finrod index when hunting for Finrod.
Srekal86: oh okay, so nothing dynamic yet.
Srekal86: any progress on the Google search?
VardaValar1: We have this little problem that we are on in the last two weeks of Finals
VardaValar1: No, not that far along yet
VardaValar1: A search engine we were about to use worked great at the university, but conks out on
Srekal86: have you thought about doing the trick glyphweb uses with frames so people can search for example "valarguild gandalf" when they click the link it takes them to a frameless page of Gandalf, no navigation
LaurealasseHelka: Brb
Srekal86: er that's the opposite of what glyphweb has*
Srekal86: they have it refresh so no matter what the page has their framed navigation.
VardaValar1: I was trying to put everything in frames with navigation, if that's what you mean, but also have it work for people who can't use frames.
ArPharazonV: ok, sorry, I was absent for half an hour, but I'm done with my WoW wishlist
Srekal86: well, like this: there is no navigation.
Srekal86: simply because its the page that the index would call along with the navigation.
VardaValar1: The navigation is at the top
VardaValar1: It runs you back to Maiar or Istari at your pleasure
Srekal86: well what about the left/right nav links though?
VardaValar1: It is an index that takes you to everything Gandalf related
Srekal86: Oh and I just found your MW install, want me to set it up for you? Its still at the pre-install stage.
VardaValar1: No, Arwen set it up on her server
Srekal86: might want to take it down then, I could mess quite a few things up ;-)
VardaValar1: So far, none of our web workers wanted to use Wiki
Srekal86: And why is that?
VardaValar1: It does not do well with our copyright set up.
Srekal86: You can have whatever copyright you want.
Srekal86: GNU FDL is not required.
Srekal86: Which copyright license do you currently have?
VardaValar1: Each contributor has his/her own copyright.
Srekal86: Which license to most of them use?
VardaValar1: The one that is for all people who make written or artistic works.
Srekal86: hm, there's quite a few different ones.
VardaValar1: Hyarion, I'm talking about the one that all writers and artists have, as soon as they are published.
VardaValar1: I'm not talking about online certificates.
VardaValar1: This is the one set up by all the governments -= mainly look up the one for the US
VardaValar1: Please whisper your Tolkien topics to the chair as they come to mind.
VardaValar1: I don't take require the contributors to sign over their copyright to publish on Valar
Eonwe Valar: For people who write or create a work, they are gauranteed protection under copyright law, even if they have not yet filed for one.
VardaValar1: They can publish without any modification except those they are willing to take, such as editiing spelling and grammer.
VardaValar1: Grammar. : )
VardaValar1: If they don't want that modified, it won't be.
VardaValar1: I think Srekal is afk?
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
Eonwe Valar: And of course, the creator of such work has the right to decide if, where, and how their work is displayed.
VardaValar1: Aye
Srekal86: But as long as they don't state it can't be modified your in the clear. It would be their fault for submitting to a site that didn't have a copyright statement. sorry was busy with some other things ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I submit my stuff to the Valar guild with the knowledge that it is going on the Valar Guild website. I don't want my stuff on wiki.
Srekal86: We use the GNU FDL which is more of a copyleft and is actually copyrighted unlike public domain.
Eonwe Valar: so that's at least one person's stuff who won't be going there.
Srekal86: Actually I would assume many of the content, if it did go to a wiki, would be deleted as there are multiple descriptions of the same thing.
Haleth V: Need to go offline, my mom needs the phone.
VardaValar1: Okies, later Haleth
ArPharazonV: bye Haleth!
Haleth V: 'later all
Srekal86: Namarie
Haleth V has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I'm not just talking about Encyclopedia articles.
Eonwe Valar: I'm talking about stories and papers I've written for the Valar Guild.
Srekal86: If your talking about personal fan fiction/stories then those would simply be placed in a locked page that only you could edit.
Srekal86: and if the valar guild had a wiki, it would still be the valar guild site.
Eonwe Valar: I'll still pass.
Eonwe Valar: Just not interested.
Srekal86: What do you dislike?
Eonwe Valar: I dislike the ability for people to come in and modify stuff. It wouldn't make it any easier than it is now, as we'd still have to go back through what people submit to check for errors/falacies/stupid stuff people want to try
Eonwe Valar: and get up there.
Srekal86: eonwe, like I said anything you wanted to not be edited, wouldn't be edited...
Arwen V1: but if we want the majority of things not to be edited, what use is it to use wiki?
Eonwe Valar: That would be the entire Encyclopedia, and thus no point in getting wiki :}
Srekal86: Varda still has to check for stupid submissions when she posts the entries.
Arwen V1: which is meant to have public editing it
Srekal86: your missing the point.
Srekal86: wiki is dynamic, thats the point I'm trying to convey.
Srekal86: content management.
Eonwe Valar: And I'm happy for it, but still not interested :}
LaurealasseHelka: Back.
Srekal86: So you are not interested even though your work would not be edited, why is that?
Arwen V1: There are other forms of content management that fit better with the encyclopedia than wiki
Eonwe Valar: Others are welcome to their opinion, but that's mine.
Srekal86: Arwen, feel free to make a suggestion.
Arwen V1: I think there is one that is being tested already.. starts with a J?
Srekal86: joomla, no one liked it.
Arwen V1: ahh, well there are others too =P
Eonwe Valar: We're probably one of the few places that actually encourage people to talk to other people to get a part submitted. I happen to like human interaction.
Arwen V1: and I get that lots dont like the idea of wiki either
LaurealasseHelka has left the room.
Srekal86: I'm unsure what you mean eonwe, a wiki wouldn't encourage communication?
Srekal86: lots don't understand the concept
Arwen V1: I understand the concept, and I think they do understand it
Srekal86: So what do you dislike about it?
Arwen V1: I dont dislike it, I just dont think its feasible for our encyclopedia
Arwen V1: because we dont want the entries to be editable
Srekal86: hm, so what do you think makes it unfeasible.
Srekal86: like I said, the Valar Guild wiki, if it were to have one, would not be editable by anyone.
Srekal86: that is not the point, there are numerous extensions to protect that.
Haleth V has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: I've already stated my position, and others have stated theirs. I think this topic We have that now, Hyarion.
ArPharazonV: if it can't be edited, what's the point?
Srekal86: Content Management System.
Srekal86: no editing the ht ml
Srekal86: no dealing with php
Srekal86: no dealing with css
Eonwe Valar: *I think this topic has taken enough time.
VardaValar1: We can use another CMS
Srekal86: yet you would have php/css all dynamic content
Arwen V1: Yup, there are other CMS
Srekal86: Varda, any ideas which one?
VardaValar1: Still working on some possiblities
Srekal86: Which ones have you started to install?
VardaValar1: I'm still working on separating articles so we can use some sort of CMS
Srekal86: Don't worry about separating articles as you'll have to separate them from the html anyway for the CMS
VardaValar1: Ok, thank you for your input, Srekal.
VardaValar1: Do we have any further web news?

VardaValar1: If not, let's shift to the Gaming Reports.
VardaValar1: Which games have been used this week besides WoW? : )
ArPharazonV: Empire Earth!
FladrifV: openttd!
ArPharazonV: been starting the campaigns again.... just conquered Troy today ;-)
VardaValar1: Poor Troy, dead again
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eagle : )
Haleth V: Aiya =)
VardaValar1: Any other games or reports?
FladrifV: you did better than the Ilias then arp
ArPharazonV: well, I made use of this fun wooden horse...
Haleth V: lol
VardaValar1: ;-)
Arwen V1: hehe
ArPharazonV: one difference though.... Odysseus asked me to keep all the temples intact
ArPharazonV: so he wouldn't be bothered by Gods on his way home ;-)
Arwen V1: =)
VardaValar1: Did it work?
ArPharazonV: not sure, the scenario ended with Priam's death and the destruction of his palace ;-)
MrMonkey2002Blah has left the room.
Haleth V: lol
ArPharazonV: oh, and the.. reunion of Helen and Menelaus
ArPharazonV: which I'm not sure is completely coherent with Homer...
ArPharazonV: didn't Menelaus die in the legends?
ArPharazonV: but then again, Achilles made it out too...
FladrifV: *cant run to bookshelf*
VardaValar1: Menelaus made it home
Haleth V: Yeah, he did... I remember that.
VardaValar1: He didn't die at the battle with Troy
ArPharazonV: and Helen?
Haleth V: Also survived.
VardaValar1: He took Helen with him
ArPharazonV: ahh
ArPharazonV: might be accurate then after all... well, besides Achilles' survival
VardaValar1: Achilles died
ArPharazonV: that I am aware of... but he didn't in the game ;-)
VardaValar1: Where's an arrow when you need it? Paris! Over here!
Haleth V: lol
ArPharazonV: mysteriously, all of Troy's heroes were missing...
Haleth V: What, even Hector?
ArPharazonV: no Paris, no Sarpedon, no Hector.... just Priam
Haleth V: Awwwww
VardaValar1: Priam, too old to fight by then, at least much.
VardaValar1: Sounds like they rigged the knucklebones
ArPharazonV: yup, he stayed within his city until I came in with the wooden horse
ArPharazonV: which was a gift from Athena after I had destroyed a few barracks and towers.... not sure what exactly triggered it
VardaValar1: She was wroth, saw that you gave her an opportunity. : )
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: but after I came in with the wooden horse, occupied by Agamemnon, Menelaus, Achilles, and Odysseus, as well as about 14 more soldiers... it was swiftly over
ArPharazonV: may have been a small force, but when you have 4 heroes there, things tend to go your way quite quickly
Haleth V: lol
Haleth V: no doubt
ArPharazonV: the little guys have the ability to heal non-hero units very fast
VardaValar1: Sorry to interrupt, as I love the Trojan War...
VardaValar1: One:
ArPharazonV: automatically, even... when they're not ordered to kill something directly...
ArPharazonV: ok, I'll shut up
VardaValar1: The Encyc is meant to be navigated by the current frames
VardaValar1: But it has ways back to the indices and subject pages for every single entry
VardaValar1: Two:
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: We have a WoW Lothar Gaming report ready now. Europe, you're next
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Menel : )
Haleth V: aiya =)
Menelvagor Valar: sorry for being late, was playing God of War O:-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya Menel!
Eonwe Valar: Tsk :}
VardaValar1: Ares? : )
Eonwe Valar: Not quite :}
ArPharazonV: Mars?
Eonwe Valar: Kratos :}
Eonwe Valar: It's a console game :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok, WoW Lothar Report:
Menelvagor Valar: Kratos vs Ares ;-)
VardaValar1: Mandos wins
Eonwe Valar: This week's guild questing brought us into 3 places : Maraudon, Felwood, and Blackfathom Deeps.
Eonwe Valar: First, Sauron, Varda, and Eonwë went into Maraudon to put together Varda's staff of Celebras. Since I already had mine, we took the shortcut through the falls and went straight to Celebras.
VardaValar1: He's a cool centaur stag.
Eonwe Valar: After a fight with him, Varda discussed putting the staff together with him. On completion Varda had one quest less in her log :}
VardaValar1: Would make a great new Alliance race.
Eonwe Valar: Actually he was a Keeper of the Grove :}
VardaValar1: Aye, trying to describe his looks to non-WoW. Feel free to try.
Eonwe Valar: ah
Eonwe Valar: Elf upper-body, deer lower body :}
Eonwe Valar: Twisted root hand :}
VardaValar1: With antlers
Eonwe Valar: Purple Elf skin for those who haven't seen a Night Elf :}
ArPharazonV: Grovekeepers as an Alliance race? combined with the dryads, perhaps... keepers are male, dryads are female
Eonwe Valar: We then took a look further down the path to see where it came out, and doing that, went back for a Mountain Giant boss. Once he fell, we left Maraudon.
ArPharazonV: would be quite fun, though
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar : )
VardaValar1: The Mt. Giant had a great set of double wings.
Eonwe Valar: Varda and I then went to Jaedenar in Felwood. I had found that there was a Dreadlord sitting at the very bottom of Shadow Hold, and wanted to test our mettle against this lvl 59 elite horror :}
Eonwe Valar: Fighting our way through, we came to him, and he was made very short work of :}
ArPharazonV: ooh... I remember him
VardaValar1: Pardon, my error on wings, next guy
Eonwe Valar: The Dreadlord is the Winged guy, aye.
Eonwe Valar: Then Varda and I switched to our Druid and Priest respectively and joined with Elwing and Merry to travel into Blackfathom Deeps. Most of the battle in was easy, until we got to opening the door in Kelris' Chamber.
Eonwe Valar: We accidentally triggered two of the fires at the same time, and what a fight it became!
VardaValar1: Oh, on BFD, we had so many people we could not bring them all
Eonwe Valar: Elwing unfortunately was the first to fall, as my mana couldn't keep up.
Eonwe Valar: When I ran out, Varda switched back to caster form and healed for as long as she could, while I tried to regen some mana and keep a shield on her to keep her healing.
Eonwe Valar: Eventually she went down too though, and it came to Merry attacking while I danced around and healed us both, staying just ahead of the crab.
Eonwe Valar: I was able to fear the guys a couple of times and buy some time. Finally, after a grueling fight. Merry finished off the last crab.
VardaValar1: Merry looked really epic : )
Eonwe Valar: After that, the fights were back to manageable :}
Menelvagor Valar: I remember going into BFD once...
Menelvagor Valar: didn't know what I was doing and activated all flames =-O
Eonwe Valar: It was Elwing's first time in an instance I believe :}
LaurealasseHelka has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Right, it was
FladrifV: *time to be hasty* Namarie all
Menelvagor Valar: even my 60 mage wasn't up to the task.
ArPharazonV: ahh... memories... BFD was Cal's first instance as well
VardaValar1: That would have been horrific : )
ArPharazonV: got my first blue item from the Hydra boss
ArPharazonV: the Moss Cinch!
Menelvagor Valar: tsk... not even Deadmines :-P
ArPharazonV: I didn't really visit the Eastern Kingdoms until I was lvl 30...
ArPharazonV: with 1 exception, the westfall half of the sealion pendant
ArPharazonV: for aquatic form
ArPharazonV: didn't go into the Deadmines until I was.. what... 31 or 32?
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, that concludes my WoW report :}
VardaValar1: Phar, are you ready with the European report?
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe : )
ArPharazonV: ehrr.. Europe report... oh, right
ArPharazonV: didn't see any of our Valarguildies, but we had a good weekend with the raidalliance... really boosted our spirits again
ArPharazonV: finally took down the 3 royal bug-bosses, the second boss-encounter of Ahn'Qiraj...
ArPharazonV: going into that new section, without respawning trash, and finally beating up more than the first boss, was really good for us
ArPharazonV: since burnouts and boredom was becoming common among the guild... some people were about to leave
ArPharazonV: oh, and the day before we finally finished the complete Blackwing Lair in one day... quite a record for us
ArPharazonV: so now we're all happy again :-D
VardaValar1: Congrats : )
ArPharazonV: as for myself, not much.... got some small loot, did some quests... and wrote up a complete wishlist of items from raidinstances that I still want
FladrifV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: so I'm going in with a clear head!
ArPharazonV: oh, and I'm finally revered with the faction for the Zul'Gurub instance, the Zandalar Tribe
ArPharazonV: which entitled me to some fun patterns and items
VardaValar1: grats
ArPharazonV: thanks
ArPharazonV: that's it, basically
ArPharazonV: ..yup, that concludes my report
VardaValar1: Thank you, Pharazon the Golden

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Eonwe, go ahead : )
Eonwe Valar: THanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Haleth had a topic last week that we didn't get to, so we'll be doing it this week :}
Haleth V: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: I'm heading to bed as well... Good night everyone! Namarie.
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Good night. And there went one of our best talkers
Haleth V: aww
VardaValar1: Good to have that reputation : )
Eonwe Valar: She asked last week about Faramir and his attempt to retake Osgiliath. Would it have been for the better if Faramir hadn't followed his father's orders?
ArPharazonV: I do not see what benefit was gained from that attempt, for starters
VardaValar1: What else should he have done?
Haleth V: Considering the society in which he was raised, he was probably taught to obey his father's orders above all else.
ArPharazonV: he wanted to gain his father's love... but at what cost?
VardaValar1: Not just his father's love
VardaValar1: He was trying to be both himself and Boromir
VardaValar1: His father was the greatest power they knew, on their side at least.
VardaValar1: Would he have had to start a civil war if he disobeyed?
Haleth V: And they'd been raised to obey the Steward of Gondor. Looking at Gondor society, obedience seemed to be a very integral part of their culture as well.
VardaValar1: Let's hit the chapter, whoever has the book
Haleth V: Have mine right next to the comp =P
VardaValar1: Hoping all of us have it handy : )
VardaValar1: Go Haleth!
Haleth V: =)
VardaValar1: RotK, "Siege of Gondor"
ArPharazonV: bah... only have the Fellowship here of the 3
VardaValar1: It wasn't the total wipe-out that the movie showed
Haleth V: lol, got distracted by another chapter, had to read it =P
Srekal86: Everyone doesn't just have the pdfs?
ArPharazonV: ...pdf?
ArPharazonV: true, it wasn't, Varda, I remember that
VardaValar1: Most of us have the books handy
Srekal86: man, this channel is like a time warp I swear :p Portable Document Format.
ArPharazonV: I know what a pdf is...
VardaValar1: At least we chat Tolkien
ArPharazonV: I just didn't know there were lotr pdfs
VardaValar1: You are usually quiet
Haleth V: Well, looking at mine, it looks there were only 4-5 riders...
Eonwe Valar: I prefer books. I recommend "Read or Die" for Anime fans :}
LaurealasseHelka: Anime's cool.
ArPharazonV: I remember that after the attempt to retake Osgiliath, Faramir and his forces slowly retreated, first to the wall
ArPharazonV: only in the last retreat was he wounded
VardaValar1: Denethor: "But I will not yield the River and the Pelennor unfought - not if there is a captain here who still has the courage to do his lord's will."
Haleth V: right
Arwen V1: That was rather belittling of Denethor
VardaValar1: Faramir is the only captain to speak up after a silence.
Haleth V: Hmm, which chapter was this?
VardaValar1: "I do not oppose your will, sire. Since you are robbed of Boromir, I will go and do what I can in his stead - if you command it."
Eonwe Valar: Seige of Gondor
VardaValar1: "I do so."
Haleth V: ah, ok
Eonwe Valar: Chapter 2
VardaValar1: I'm abridging
Haleth V: was looking too early, didn't realize that it was a few pages ahead =)
Eonwe Valar: er, maybe not chapter 2
ArPharazonV: chapter 4
ArPharazonV: if I recall
VardaValar1: "Then farewell! But if I should return, think better of me!"
Eonwe Valar: Chapter 4, aye
VardaValar1: "That depends on the manner of your return."
VardaValar1: Faramir goes, but not with every soldier they had.
Eonwe Valar: Sounds like there wasn't anyone to go without Faramir volunteering.
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: They are all hoping Rohan will hurry up and come
VardaValar1: But the enemy is on the move now, so Denethor does not want to wait
VardaValar1: Faramir "had taken with him such strength of men as were willing to go or could be spared."
VardaValar1: A host of Haradrim were joined by those coming from Minas Morgul, led by the Black Captain
VardaValar1: aka Witch-king, our old non-friend
VardaValar1: Faramir did hold them at the ford for a while, then retreated in pretty good order
VardaValar1: Pardon, passage of the Anduin : )
VardaValar1: Retreated to the wall of the Pelennor
VardaValar1: ten times outnumbered.
VardaValar1: The enemy took a lot of damage, but not enough.
VardaValar1: The movie made it look like zero damage to the enemy.
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: The problem was the Fear the Witch-king put out. So Gandalf took off to fight that. "Fear Ward"? : )
Haleth V: right... so the question is, was the attempt to retake Osgiliath a mistake?
VardaValar1: They weren't really trying to.
VardaValar1: They were slowing the coming of the enemy.
Haleth V: Still, it seemed to be more of a waste of lives than anything else.
Eonwe Valar: Doesn't seem that succeeded either.
VardaValar1: If they could slow the enemy, and give damage, that was less to hit them with
VardaValar1: And in the meantime, reinforcements might arrive
VardaValar1: They were buying time
Haleth V: but did they manage to do that?
ArPharazonV: yes, they bought time
ArPharazonV: they bought enough time for Rohan to show up
VardaValar1: They weren't wiped out in seconds
ArPharazonV: they bought hours, if not days
Eonwe Valar: My reading of it implies they didn't buy much. Sauron had it laid out too well already for them to get slowed down.
VardaValar1: Time passed, people waited through the night for news
Haleth V: I was under the same impression as Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: Travel time should be calculated in that "waiting" as well.
VardaValar1: They returned the middle of next morning.
ArPharazonV: true... when the main bulk moved, there was not much Faramir could do to slow them down
VardaValar1: He stayed with the rearguard, so the retreat would not become a rout
VardaValar1: Gandalf said "He is pitted against a foe too great."
VardaValar1: He means the Witch-king, not the host of enemies
ArPharazonV: that's what I figured....
Haleth V: Hmm.
ArPharazonV: even Gandalf wasn't sure about him vs the Witch-king... and he was one of the most dangerous in the world, as he put it ;-)
VardaValar1: Ok, so the question is, should Faramir have kept quiet? Then no one would have left.
VardaValar1: His father was pressuring him, and Faramir also missed Boromir, who would have gone.
VardaValar1: Faramir gave Denethor a chance to pull back, but he didn't take it.
Haleth V: So was it an act of necessity or more one of trying to fill in his brother's shoes?
Eonwe Valar: Denethor probably would've pressed harder had his first round not succeeded.
VardaValar1: I agree with you that it was against his better judgement.
VardaValar1: More likely trying to fill in for his well-loved dead brother.
ArPharazonV: so again... would it have been better had he not gone?
VardaValar1: And he did want his father to think better of him.
Haleth V: So in that context, attempting to please/impress his father.
VardaValar1: More men behind the wall?
Haleth V: I really can't form an opinion on this one. =P
VardaValar1: Faramir's men did kill a fair number before they reached the wall.
ArPharazonV: did they know, for example, that nothing they could do would seriously slow down the enemy?
VardaValar1: Without the nazgul, it might have been a worthy effort.
VardaValar1: But with the worst of the nazgul there, they were in trouble.
Haleth V: But they were fully aware that the Nazgul were there... weren't they?
Eonwe Valar: The decision not to go would've meant no casualties on either side, so not sure that would've helped either.
VardaValar1: That was the first time the Black Captain came out.
VardaValar1: He had not been there earlier.
ArPharazonV: not true
Haleth V: But losing men hurts Gondor much more than the enemy.
Haleth V: Ah.
VardaValar1: They might have hoped he would stay back a while yet.
Eonwe Valar: However, Faramir would've been there to help Gandalf rally the forces in Minas Tirith.
ArPharazonV: he had been there before... a nameless fear during the night
ArPharazonV: assaulting Osgiliath to allow the Black Riders to cross
ArPharazonV: and against the moonlight, his silhouet could be seen, if I recall
ArPharazonV: a tall man on a black horse
Eonwe Valar: People would fight for Faramir, and his presence would lift the spirits of the soldiers a great deal, as he was well loved by his men.
VardaValar1: In the waiting time, the one where they are waiting for news of Faramir,
VardaValar1: the news came of the Black Captain.
VardaValar1: Aye, Faramir could hold off the Fear if others were near enough.
ArPharazonV: Faramir as a fearward... this is almost taking gameplay-perspectives...
VardaValar1: During the waiting a messenger came and said, "And we have learned that the Black Captain leads them once again."
VardaValar1: I did that on purpose, Phar. ; )
ArPharazonV: "Nazgul aura: morale lowered in nearby troops, except for a small radius around Faramir"
VardaValar1: Aye : )
Haleth V: lol
Eonwe Valar: And Gandalf :}
VardaValar1: Gandalf, major Fear Ward : )
VardaValar1: The horsemen with Faramir did turn as a rearguard to fight
ArPharazonV: "If Nazgul enters this radius, chance for injury to Faramir: Be sure to retreat"
Eonwe Valar: Gandalf had Improved Concentration Aura :}
Haleth V: hehe
VardaValar1: Not until the rearguard was broken up and pretty close did Denethor send out his sortie.
VardaValar1: He waited until they had done all that could be done.
VardaValar1: Imrahil led that one. : )
ArPharazonV: ah, right
VardaValar1: Gandalf went too, and sped ahead.
ArPharazonV: well, at least better than a single horse entering the city dragging Faramir with him...
VardaValar1: That was pathetic and untrue.
VardaValar1: "Faramir had lost a third of his men."
VardaValar1: That's not everybody.
ArPharazonV: it's called drama ;-)
VardaValar1: Pathetic.
Haleth V: lol
VardaValar1: The drama was in the book
ArPharazonV: that's the thing about movies.... people like to focus on certain people, and them alonoe
ArPharazonV: *alone
VardaValar1: "Even as the Nazgul had swerved aside from the onset of the White Rider, there came flying a deadly dart,
VardaValar1: "and Faramir, as he held at bay a mounted champion of Harad,
ArPharazonV: was that dart from the Nazgul, actually?
ArPharazonV: don't recall
VardaValar1: "had fallen to the earth.
Haleth V: doesn't mention who threw the dart.
Haleth V: "there came flying a deadly dart" is about it.
VardaValar1: "Only the charge of Dol Amroth had saved him from the red southland swords that would have hewed him as he lay."
ArPharazonV: meh, guess I always assumed it was a Nazgul... strange the way the mind works
VardaValar1: Now that shows a heroic fighter downed and a heroic rescue. Not pathetic.
Haleth V: hehe
VardaValar1: The word Nazgul came just before the word dart almost
ArPharazonV: perhaps I read "there came flying down a deadly dart, and aye, with the Nazgul mentioned before that
VardaValar1: And we know the Black Breath combined with the poison on the dart.
ArPharazonV: and that
Haleth V: Right.
VardaValar1: Plus long exposure to Black Breath plus depression and fatigue.
ArPharazonV: so I simply associated the Nazgul with the dart
VardaValar1: And we can't prove whose dart it was. : )
VardaValar1: If the Nazgul were ever said to use such weapons, the case would be very good.
VardaValar1: But it's not mentioned anywhere that I know of.
ArPharazonV: what do we know of the weapons Nazgul used? except for the Witch-King's mace, and some swords and daggers at Weathertop?
VardaValar1: It just doesn't say whose dart, aye, Haleth.
ArPharazonV: oh, and the Witch-King's flaming sword
ArPharazonV: did he have a mace in the books, btw?
VardaValar1: They used Fear as their greatest area effect weapon
Haleth V: Aye, he does, Phar.
ArPharazonV: strange that he would be carrying both a sword and a mace... but hey....
Eonwe Valar: I have both his mace and sword in the ME mod :}
VardaValar1: One thing I liked in the movie was using the Fell Beasts to grab people off the walls, made sense.
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: Go Eonwe. : )
ArPharazonV: ooh, I liked that feature in the Battle of Middle-Earth
VardaValar1: But, it made the Fell Beasts a potential target.
ArPharazonV: they could also insta-kill trebuchets on walls by swooping down... such nice animations
VardaValar1: Legolas seems to be the only one who actually managed to shoot a Fell Beast.
Haleth V: Everyone else was too frightened, maybe?
VardaValar1: Eowyn cut off one's head, so they needed to keep their distance.
VardaValar1: I suspect they would keep out of arrow range normally.
VardaValar1: Legolas with the new bow from Lothlorien, shooting in pitch black night, was unexpected.
VardaValar1: I guess showing a shot in pitch black was beyond the movie makers. : )
ArPharazonV: hehe
Haleth V: hehe
Eonwe Valar: No skills, I swear :}
ArPharazonV: they did show Gollum with his log, though, in the Extended Edition... that was a nice touch
VardaValar1: None at all. ;-)
VardaValar1: I liked that too, Phar. : )
VardaValar1: So, should Faramir have led that attack?
VardaValar1: It did cut down the number of enemy.
VardaValar1: Unsure if it slowed them, but it may have somewhat.
VardaValar1: But was it worth it?
VardaValar1: What was the alternative?
ArPharazonV: if it did, it bought just enough time for the reinforcements from Rohan to come...
ArPharazonV: though they could not have known that
Eonwe Valar: TO have the entire fight at the gates of Minas Tirith.
Eonwe Valar: That was the alternative.
ArPharazonV: didn't the Orcs trench up the entire area around the city?
ArPharazonV: now that, I remember
LaurealasseHelka: Did the raiders bring any sieging equipment? *is guessing not*
VardaValar1: It probably gave the enemy a little respect for Gondor, not thinking it was just a walk-in.
ArPharazonV: Sauron's armies spent a whole night digging trenches and bringing up ladders... interesting
ArPharazonV: I had never actually thought about how a siege of a city is actually set up
ArPharazonV: (which might explain my sucky RTS skills)
VardaValar1: Ok, the enemy did quite a few things. Aye Pharazon
VardaValar1: The plain was dark with the enemy, and they were in tents all around.
VardaValar1: Great camps of tents.
LaurealasseHelka: Wait, so the Haradhrim and those meeting them did bring siege equipment?
VardaValar1: Orcs dug lines of deep trenches in a huge ring just out of bowshot and filled them with fire.
LaurealasseHelka: Well, I have to go... Nice meeting all of you.
VardaValar1: As soon as a length of trench was completed, great wains approached,  more companies of
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
VardaValar1: bye!
Haleth V: Namarie! =)
Eonwe Valar: Take care
VardaValar1: check out the transcript when you can : )
VardaValar1: You'll be in it. : )
LaurealasseHelka: Lol, ok.
LaurealasseHelka: Bye, guys.
LaurealasseHelka has left the room.
VardaValar1: of the enemy, with "great engines for the casting of missiles".
VardaValar1: None on the defenders' wall could reach so far, so their intelligence was good.
VardaValar1: The defenders weren't afraid, because of their strong walls.
VardaValar1: They figured it would take an earthquake to down them
VardaValar1: Not even steel or fire could hurt the outside, built the same way as the walls of Orthanc.
VardaValar1: The roads were cut, to use the weapon of Hunger.
VardaValar1: The great catapults didn't go for the walls though
VardaValar1: They threw them over the walls into the first circle where they burst into flame.
ArPharazonV: (and later used for heads of soldiers)
VardaValar1: Farther casts were of the heads cut off the soldiers who had fallen at Osgilath, or on the Rammas, or in the fields.
VardaValar1: These were at the same time, the farther shots past the ones dropping fire.
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Then the Nazgul flew over using Fear so that few could stand.
VardaValar1: Denethor was out of action, staying with his son, regretting his last harsh words.
VardaValar1: Denethor's own judgement of sending the men out earlier is here
VardaValar1: "out into needless peril"
VardaValar1: So he agrees that it was a bad idea, Haleth. : )
Haleth V: OK =)
Haleth V: Interesting discussion, though.
Eonwe Valar: There we go, a decision from the tactician himself :}
VardaValar1: Not too many of the characters comment on whether it was a good idea or not.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe. : )
VardaValar1: ahh, and then it tells of great siege towers that the enemy built in Osgiliath rolling up.
VardaValar1: Answering the other question.
VardaValar1: And of course Denethor knew Faramir was alive, burning with fever.
VardaValar1: So we answered all the questions to satisfaction?
Haleth V: Aye, and thank you =)
VardaValar1: Woot!
VardaValar1: Phar, without his books, never thought I'd see the day!
ArPharazonV: hehe.... they're upstairs
ArPharazonV: luckily I have memories of the chapter, as well as you people ;-)
VardaValar1: We should have pushed you out of your chair!
VardaValar1: Had to let you rest from doing the quotes one time ;-)
Haleth V: hehe
ArPharazonV: hehe
Haleth V: Well, I'll be on my way then.
Haleth V: I'll try to make it to the next meeting =)
VardaValar1: That would be great : )
Eonwe Valar: Take care Haleth :}
VardaValar1: You are always a delight
Eonwe Valar: Hope to see you then :}
ArPharazonV: bye Haleth!
Haleth V: Namarie, all, and thank you Eonwe and Varda, it's my pleasure =)
Haleth V: Bye Phar!
VardaValar1: Namarie : )
Haleth V has left the room.
VardaValar1: Fellow rp guys, do you want to talk this time? Eonwe asked for it sometime
VardaValar1: Tolkien chat adjourned

rp players meeting.
VardaValar1: *music of the spheres*
Eonwe Valar: Just 3 of us here.
ArPharazonV: oh, right, rp, sure
Eonwe Valar: but sure.
Arwen V1: hehe
VardaValar1: How many did you want? ; )
VardaValar1: Menel hasn't been staying much
Eonwe Valar: well, hoped for Menel too, but I suppose he needs his sleep :}
VardaValar1: Haran seems to be out of it again
VardaValar1: Menel wasn't here early, so we had to wait for after, and he left early
VardaValar1: Maybe during the week? Tougher?
Eonwe Valar: I guess we can chat some now.
VardaValar1: You summoned us, Eonwe. What cool thing did you have in mind? : )
Eonwe Valar: I thought we'd talk about direction from here, thoughts on the RP so far, stuff like that.
VardaValar1: Direction, towards the Lonely Mountain
Eonwe Valar: I mean after that :}
VardaValar1: After the Mountain, turn back from it, only one road
VardaValar1: I think
ArPharazonV: I think he means the direction of the story.. not the east/west thing
VardaValar1: Seems as if the books said scouts went by Lothlorien and up the Dimrill Stair
Eonwe Valar: Well, I mean more than just physical direction
VardaValar1: Do we want to do that?
VardaValar1: We don't have to be *those* scouts.
Eonwe Valar: I was thinking due south then back along the East/West Road.
VardaValar1: Did you have a thought, Eonwe?
VardaValar1: You mentioned some Noldor you were hoping to bump into. What about them?
Eonwe Valar: That was an opening for other members wanting to jump in.
VardaValar1: Okies
Eonwe Valar: No one took it, so I glossed the meeting over.
Eonwe Valar: short paragraph on our meeting then on with the story.
VardaValar1: We really need to post more often if we want interest
ArPharazonV: there's still the Calaron-factor I have been preparing, partially with Varda... I have some twists for it in mind, but it could happen outside the journey of the original party for now
ArPharazonV: and concerning location, he could eventually come in anywhere
VardaValar1: I'd really like to see more interaction and story stuff with the group traveling together
Eonwe Valar: Auros' purpose this whole time has been to scout the area through Mirkwood to Erebor. Now that he's done that, his destination of course is back to Rivendell.
VardaValar1: our fellowship group. : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that's what I was going to say. I'd like to see more interaction as well.
VardaValar1: So after Erebor, he's pretty well done
ArPharazonV: so after Erebor, we'll basically be heading back to Rivendell
Eonwe Valar: I don't really think we need an adventure every two feet, but it can be time to build bridges.
VardaValar1: Having the story go to stuff outside the group so much just seems sort of over-tangented, unless we can fit it in really well somehow.
ArPharazonV: indeed... while Calaron's becoming my own side-story, we should really focus on our working together
VardaValar1: So far, though, it looks as if we ride to Erebor and ride home saying don't go through Mirkwood?
ArPharazonV: perhaps Eonwe had another destination after Erebor?
VardaValar1: Not really sure why we're going to Erebor.
ArPharazonV: something more to the south?
Eonwe Valar: I thought Calion's not killing the wolf was a great opportunity to create an interaction between Calion and Auros, so I took it.
VardaValar1: *pokes Eonwe*
VardaValar1: Aye, it was : )
VardaValar1: Needed a little conflict, one that wouldn't break up the group.
VardaValar1: We're all very different sorts of elves, should be able to work with that?
Eonwe Valar: I've also had more successful interaction with Fainan, who is more used to a command structure, as opposed to a noble who usually gets to make the decisions.
Eonwe Valar: I thought that added an interesting bit of depth in both cases :}
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: I am too friendly, should have some prickles in there.
VardaValar1: Or that can be the problem. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Generally Noldor would be fairly amiable to Dwarves, given their similar respect for Aulë and crafts, so I've tried to represent that with Haran.
VardaValar1: We could really use a dwarf right now
VardaValar1: Mirkwood has a history of trade with Dale and Erebor
Eonwe Valar: Actually, I see the interaction between Calion and Auros as a good reason for Fainan to become our little groups leader, rp-wise, as neither would accept the other as leader, but may be slightly more inclined to Fainan :}
VardaValar1: ack
ArPharazonV: hehe... sounds good, actually
VardaValar1: She sees Auros as leader, and feels she doesn't know what he's really doing.
Eonwe Valar: I mean of course since I believe the original intent for this was to make an rp version of the guild founding for LotRO :}
VardaValar1: She's just being protective of the one guy who seems to know their purpose.
VardaValar1: There will be no Noldo or old elves
Eonwe Valar: Frodo as Ringbearer was techinically group leader of the Fellowship.
VardaValar1: That's why I picked a young wood-elf. They are allowed.
VardaValar1: Gandalf and then Aragorn were leaders of the Fellowship, it seemed.
Eonwe Valar: He wasn't too keen on leading the group though. Left it to Gandalf and Aragorn :}
VardaValar1: until Frodo took out on his own.
Eonwe Valar: When there was a disagreement on which way to take, Gandalf had Frodo decide.
VardaValar1: Also, weren't you going to be Sulenar in the game?
VardaValar1: Gandalf rigged the choice. : )
VardaValar1: Maybe we could meet Sulenar, maybe from the Tower Hills elves?
Eonwe Valar: Sulenar is Auros' horse :}
VardaValar1: That seems to be an allowed group,.
VardaValar1: Aye
Eonwe Valar: but I'll either use that name or Kalasul in LotRO, aye.
VardaValar1: So you're going to be a horse in LotRO? : )
Eonwe Valar: lol
VardaValar1: If we are setting this up for the LotRO game, I'm not sure how it's going to work.
Eonwe Valar: All Elves will still be Silvan.
Eonwe Valar: I kind of assumed that was the point, since it's in the LotRO RP :}
VardaValar1: Point of origin, seems Tower Hills will be major.
VardaValar1: I just don't see the characters we're going to play in LotRO showing up here, except maybe the ones from Mirkwood. Maybe Haran
VardaValar1: How did you plan to work it?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I know Auros won't be tehre.
Eonwe Valar: *there
VardaValar1: So, you're going to be my brother? : )
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I have no idea :}
VardaValar1: You'll be in WoW or doing homework : )
Eonwe Valar: likely, aye.
VardaValar1: I had hoped Elatan would join us in the rp more, since he's into LotRO, but he backed his out.
VardaValar1: Pharazon, you planning on LotRO eventually?
ArPharazonV: I'm really not sure yet
ArPharazonV: but unless I find the time to play 2 MMOs I probably won't
VardaValar1: Am I going to be forming a branch with all new people from LotRO made up mostly of movie-going guild-friends?
VardaValar1: That's my fear.
VardaValar1: Some people seem to be getting bored with WoW, so maybe they'll come.
ArPharazonV: perhaps
VardaValar1: I like WoW - would be hard to leave.
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: Eonwe is stuck there as branch leader.
ArPharazonV: still liking every bit of WoW myself...
Eonwe Valar: As branch leader for WoW, I would have to pick WoW over LotRO if it came down to it.
Eonwe Valar: I do enjoy WoW though :}
VardaValar1: If they do allow Europe and US to get together, it could be worth the effort.
Arwen V1: WoW is fun!
VardaValar1: Aye, Arwen : )
VardaValar1: I"m hoping LotRO will be too
VardaValar1: It has WoW addicts, EQ and DAoC people helping build it
Arwen V1: hehe =)
VardaValar1: I'm hoping they stand on the shoulders of giants and make something even better.
Arwen V1: hopefully =)
Eonwe Valar: Heh, EQ people are being blamed for the requirement of raiding to progress in WoW.
VardaValar1: So what are we going to do in the rp?
VardaValar1: *whistles innocently*
ArPharazonV: well, what do we want with the rp?
VardaValar1: You can hit 60 with no raid groups.
Eonwe Valar: Two of the guys working on WoW were in big EQ raiding guilds.
VardaValar1: Are we about to shut it down, Phar?
Eonwe Valar: Character interaction would be good :}
VardaValar1: Now did they like those raiding guilds? : )
VardaValar1: We need goals to interact about.
ArPharazonV: right... we need a goal
Arwen V1: dont die!
ArPharazonV: what is our goal atm? nobody knows but Auros
VardaValar1: Protecting Auros is about all I've got right now, since he has this important secret.
ArPharazonV: and when we're done with Erebor, Auros is, presumably, heading off to Rivendell
Eonwe Valar: I've been trying to build character relationships over time as I didn't see a reason to make this a quick one-chapter story.
VardaValar1: Our king seems to think it's important anyway.
VardaValar1: Aye, but what do we do?
ArPharazonV: and what happens next?
VardaValar1: Do we set up encounters with orcs?
Eonwe Valar: That is the question :}
VardaValar1: Piranhas?
ArPharazonV: dragons?
Arwen V1: dragon eating piranhas?
VardaValar1: That wouldn't seem to go with the book : )
ArPharazonV: let's get lost in a snowstorm outside Erebor and wander off to the iron mountains?
VardaValar1: Smaug's death was the point of the Hobbit
ArPharazonV: ehrr... sandstorm
Eonwe Valar: Well, seeing as the game will be focusing on Angmar, that would be a good direction.
VardaValar1: Should we be going back through Mirkwood?
VardaValar1: That cloud really should be coming from south of Thranduil's halls, from those mountains.
Eonwe Valar: One of the Noldor I met with his scouting in that direction on his way back to Rivendell.
Eonwe Valar: his = is
VardaValar1: There are baddies in the mountains up north that can be trying for a pincer movement, but nothiing like the ones in Dol Guldur.
Eonwe Valar: afk for a quick sec
VardaValar1: We are about to lose that scout headed towards Dol Guldur, or did you mean Angmar of old?
Eonwe Valar: I meant Angmar
Eonwe Valar: and back
VardaValar1: They don't actually call the Witch-king Angmar in the books, just for gaming far as I know.
VardaValar1: ahh
Eonwe Valar: I meant the realm of Angmar :}
VardaValar1: So that will fit into the story line, somehow?
ArPharazonV: oh, that would be good
VardaValar1: Is he a close friend or relative of Auros' by any chance?
Eonwe Valar: Well, if he reports in Rivendell that Angmar is stirring, that's a good reason to head up that way :}
VardaValar1: Is it?
Eonwe Valar: or disappears even, heh
VardaValar1: We're looking for a safe path for the Fellowship.
ArPharazonV: however, if we're going to mess with Angmar.. we should know that there is no Witch-King up there ;-)
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Orcs off the northern mountains might get him
Eonwe Valar: Well, once Auros returns to Imladris with his report, that frees up his obligation to scout out a safe path.
VardaValar1: they do seem to like rugged terrain
VardaValar1: ok, so you're considering what amounts to a new story
VardaValar1: Fainan would escort you to the edge of Mirkwood and say bye, far as I know at this point.
Eonwe Valar: ok, so I guess I am.
Eonwe Valar: I guess I've been viewing the end of the story further out that everyone else.
VardaValar1: We ran out of plot?
ArPharazonV: and here is where Calaron might come in.... since the source of his upcoming arc will be from the north, and Fainan's brother might be involved....
ArPharazonV: we might too seek to go with Auros, see what's going on up there
VardaValar1: So I switch to Fainan's brother/
VardaValar1: ?
ArPharazonV: not sure what Fainan's brother's role might be
Eonwe Valar: *than
ArPharazonV: but if he goes missing somehow...
VardaValar1: eh
VardaValar1: Presumed dead, probably
VardaValar1: Might go look for his remains, when it's quiet.
VardaValar1: Hate to think we really ran dry on our Scout story
VardaValar1: And what about the creeping dark we had going?
VardaValar1: Fainan's going to have to go home and protect it
Eonwe Valar: Well, I've been proceeding with the idea the "end" would be the rp foundation of our group.
VardaValar1: I'm all for that
VardaValar1: So we need Kalasul to show up?
VardaValar1: And I seem to be the only one going to be in LotRO?
Eonwe Valar: A few weeks between The Council of Elrond and his departure is not enough time for that
VardaValar1: You are all going to die...
Eonwe Valar: Auros isn't going to die :}
VardaValar1: They moved the storyline back
VardaValar1: It now starts when Frodo leaves Crickhollow.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, for the game, but we're still set storywise as coming together during that time.
VardaValar1: Ok, so your plot is to go hunt for the scout missing in Angmar
VardaValar1: run into something evil over there?
Eonwe Valar: It's an idea.
VardaValar1: But what would make Fainan abandon Mirkwood?
VardaValar1: to go?
VardaValar1: It has to affect Mirkwood too
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: It might get us into the Tower Hills area, where they seem to be trying to start the elves.
Star of Phaet: well, I'm off
Star of Phaet: Namarie, folks
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Eonwe Valar: Take care GIlraen
VardaValar1: You're still here? : )
VardaValar1: Namarie!
Star of Phaet: just about :-)
Star of Phaet: namarie
Star of Phaet has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Varda... what did we have in mind for Fainan's brother again?
ArPharazonV: coming back from the west-side, he is sent to Calaron's outpost, where he finds it destroyed?
VardaValar1: Sounds right
ArPharazonV: why was he going west again?
VardaValar1: Haven't thought about it in a long time, sorry
ArPharazonV: visiting someone? escorting someone? I honestly can't tell...
VardaValar1: We can change it to work the plot, but probably an ordinary patrol
VardaValar1: Go down the road, check on things as he goes with his little patrol group, kill spiders
ArPharazonV: ah, allright
ArPharazonV: and after he reports back what he found... what happens to him next?
VardaValar1: Trample roaches
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Off to wherever he's sent.
ArPharazonV: I know Calaron will basically be driven insane and possessed by this figure we have already faced from the north.. I had a love-story for him in mind, but I'll probably have her death involved in his final mental breakdown...
ArPharazonV: after which he might disappear off into the north
ArPharazonV: which would be Calion's motive for travelling up there with Auros
VardaValar1: So it happens off camera : )
VardaValar1: It has nothing to do with our group.
Eonwe Valar: The question I then ask is if Elves can be possessed :}
ArPharazonV: well, I guess so... he would resist a great deal at first
ArPharazonV: but he would weaken, and his will would be destroyed in this mental breakdown I mentioned
ArPharazonV: it has nothing to do with our group, but I will describe it in the rp, and it will lead to a motive for at least one member of our group to act
VardaValar1: And Fainan pats you on the back and says bye while she goes home to defend Mirkwood
ArPharazonV: hehe... well, that's the next issue
ArPharazonV: we have Auros' motive, Calion's motive...
ArPharazonV: now we need to figure something out for Fainan
VardaValar1: Why would Calion go with Auros instead of on his own or with fellows?
ArPharazonV: well, if they're still together in the party when both motives "kick in" so to say, it would be smarter to stick together, knowing they'll go in the same direction, more or less
ArPharazonV: so... when are we splitting up...
ArPharazonV: and when is Auros motivated to go north?
VardaValar1: I am not terribly sure why we're going to Erebor.
Eonwe Valar: We're going to Erebor to gather information :}
VardaValar1: On what?
ArPharazonV: or we could split up, only to meet each other again up north, but that would cut out a great deal of the group-dynamic
Eonwe Valar: To see if the area is safe.
Eonwe Valar: gather info on Enemy movements.
VardaValar1: For what? No safe way for the Fellowship to reach it.
VardaValar1: Info on Enemy movements is good.
VardaValar1: Angmar is away from the direction the Fellowship is going, so that still makes a separate story
Eonwe Valar: That's part of what Auros has been doing, talking to his fellow scouts and to the inkeeper among other unmentioned but likely questioned individuals.
VardaValar1: Let him ponder his info so the reader knows.
Eonwe Valar: We could look at this like how LotR is divided.
VardaValar1: Seems safe enough to tell your party we are gathering info on Enemy movements.
Eonwe Valar: Book 1 ends at the Hobbit's arrival in Rivendell, then takes up the next phase.
Eonwe Valar: *takes up the next phase in Book 2.
Eonwe Valar: Auros didn't mention that?
VardaValar1: Their party is united in one purpose, either to haul the Ring or help the Ring hauler.
Eonwe Valar: hmm, more untrusting than I thought he was :}
VardaValar1: Maybe he did.
VardaValar1: My name is what? Up is which way?
VardaValar1: *need food*
ArPharazonV: Up is the opposite direction of down, that's all you need to know!
Eonwe Valar: Pointy end goes into the other guy :}
VardaValar1: So fall down, and up is the other direction! Got it.
VardaValar1: Good point.
ArPharazonV: ok, that was freaky... nobody here in the room, and the trashcan just made a sound
VardaValar1: It's bored.
VardaValar1: It's primary name is R2D2.
ArPharazonV: like someone threw something in it, but.. it wasn't me!
VardaValar1: You have to be famous to get a hyphen.
Eonwe Valar: maybe an Ant fell in :}
Eonwe Valar: or a cricket :}
ArPharazonV: that wouldn't be that loud
VardaValar1: It settled, change in temperature.
ArPharazonV: oh, that could be
VardaValar1: Would you feel better if you went and kicked it?
Eonwe Valar: That's possible actually.
ArPharazonV: neh, then I'd feel sorry for it ;-)
VardaValar1: That settling business happens in our old wooden two-story.
Eonwe Valar: Wood creaks at temp changes, so unless it's plastic the trash can would too.
ArPharazonV: it's made of metal
VardaValar1: You can hear footsteps where you walked, as the floor relaxes.
Eonwe Valar: metal would do it.
Eonwe Valar: maybe
ArPharazonV: it's creepy
VardaValar1: Metal would relax in temperature too, conducts. Maybe
VardaValar1: Who you gonna call? : )
ArPharazonV: trashbusters? ;-)
Eonwe Valar: He-man! :}
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: by the power of Grayskull!
VardaValar1: oi vay
Eonwe Valar: I have the power!
Eonwe Valar: *zaps neraby kitten when glowing sword*
VardaValar1: Good. You powerful guys can do the work, carry out the trash...
Eonwe Valar: *nearby, with
ArPharazonV: ...if the trashcan doesn't get up and walk out itself...
VardaValar1: Then you don't have to carry out the trash - let the trashcan do it.
VardaValar1: "Clams have legs!"
Eonwe Valar: Heh, that reminds me of an episode of The Simpsons. There was a home security system.
Eonwe Valar: When someone threw a rock at the house, it got up on 2 legs, ran down the street, fell to one knee and burst into flames :}
ArPharazonV: the house? the rock?
Eonwe Valar: The house of course :}
ArPharazonV: ahh
ArPharazonV: *quarter drops*
VardaValar1: Still eyeing the burning house in the street.
Eonwe Valar: But yeah, I'd be surprised if Auros hadn't mentioned scouting enemy movements.
Eonwe Valar: One thing we really haven't seen though is interaction between Fainan and Calion :}
VardaValar1: I do like the idea of doing the rp together, posting while we're all online.
ArPharazonV: hmm...
VardaValar1: Calion? Who you?
Eonwe Valar: Of course, lack of interaction can be taken as attitude of one towards the other or towards eachother as well.
VardaValar1: It's not like there are a lot of us to coordinate. : )
ArPharazonV: when would I interact with Fainan...
Eonwe Valar: Calion is a noble after all, may not feel like stooping so low as to talking to a commoner like Fainan :}
VardaValar1: I still find it hard to believe that Sam, with his interest in elves, had no conversations with Legolas.
VardaValar1: Fainan has no need to talk with snooty, stuck-up nobles.
ArPharazonV: so why is she talking to Auros? ;-)
VardaValar1: He's friendly : )
Eonwe Valar: to everyone but Calion, heh :}
ArPharazonV: hehe
Eonwe Valar: He doesn't seem to like nobles either :}
ArPharazonV: I actually consider Auros the snooty stuck-up noble... a lot more so than myself...
VardaValar1: Also, he's the one she's guarding because the king thinks he's important.
ArPharazonV: guess I'm just a loner ;-)
Eonwe Valar: At least not nobles from among the "lesser" Elves :}
VardaValar1: People can be prickly in any class. ; )
ArPharazonV: also remember that we are not taking into account here any motive for Estarion, or Haran
VardaValar1: Haran skipped out
ArPharazonV: and I'm still looking forward to meeting once again with 2 of our ex-members....
Eonwe Valar: Auros seems to have no problems with Sindar per se at least.
ArPharazonV: like an eagle and what seems to be a sorceress
ArPharazonV: I have a feeling I could have gone along quite nicely with the eagle...
VardaValar1: Elwing might be persuaded to pop in again sometime
Eonwe Valar: I'm not sure how well a Sorceress will transfer into LotRO, since there's no magic in the traditional sense, but then again I'm rping a Noldo so eh :}
VardaValar1: But she can't in heavy forest. Probably won't be heading towards the dwarves
VardaValar1: And you don't plan on LotRO anyway
Eonwe Valar: I would like to play it, but I would just have to prefer WoW over it in my game time.
VardaValar1: I'll stand all alone in the game... *snurfle*
VardaValar1: You are branch leader in WoW and can only come to it once a week already.
VardaValar1: LotRO, no way.
ArPharazonV: I simply prefer WoW over any lotr-game I can imagine... sorry to say it
VardaValar1: okies
ArPharazonV: hardcore Lotr fan concerning the books, and some maps or smaller games
ArPharazonV: but when it comes to my primary game, I'm also a hardcore Warcraft fan
ArPharazonV: and if I have to choose, I'll go for the story that's not actually "finished" yet
VardaValar1: Okies, so we will say we headed to Erebor, be there, meet grouchy dwarves, then say we traveled back to Mirkwood, drop me off at the edge of Mirkwood, Auros goes to Rivendell, and type the end.
VardaValar1: Start new story.
ArPharazonV: let's call it a new "act" ;-)
VardaValar1: Has nothing to do with Scouting for the Fellowship or anything at all to do with the Fellowship.
VardaValar1: I may have to play my brother. : )
ArPharazonV: that is up to you, Varda... as we have, thee as well may find a motive to continue with Fainan
VardaValar1: Her brother might have reason
VardaValar1: If we found a player for my brother, Fainan might go with him.
VardaValar1: Not going to happen.
VardaValar1: Might luck out.
VardaValar1: Anyway, that would give a tie-in to Calaron's story.
ArPharazonV: how, exactly? All he finds is the ravaged outpost.... is there any further connection between him and Calaron?
ArPharazonV: could Thranduil send him back out to investigate?
VardaValar1: Good point. So we both stay in Mirkwood shooting orcs and those chittering spiders, trying to find the light switch.
VardaValar1: Investigate what?
ArPharazonV: I could have him meet with Helvy, of course, while near the outpost
VardaValar1: He might be sent along to guard your character, o noble one. : )
ArPharazonV: but saddling him up with my wolf may not be very considerate of me
VardaValar1: No problem, shoot the wolf.
VardaValar1: ;-)
ArPharazonV: if you do that, I'll accidentally have Fainan hit by a doomagger on its return...
ArPharazonV: *boomagger
VardaValar1: Ok, solves where she went.
Eonwe Valar: Auros told Calion to deal with that Wolf. It's Calion's own fault :}
VardaValar1: But it was an accident!
Eonwe Valar: And thus started all the wonderful and mutual respect that is so obvious between Auros and Calion :}
ArPharazonV: one accident deserves another...
VardaValar1: The doomagger accident.
ArPharazonV: boomagger
VardaValar1: Aye : )
ArPharazonV: it's still from a boomerang ;-)
VardaValar1: The boomerang dagger, aka bd
Eonwe Valar: afk for a quick sec
VardaValar1: You need to head for bed, Phar?
VardaValar1: We are bad about keeping you up
ArPharazonV: so I accidentally kill Fainan, whistle innocently as I leave to the north with Auros, and Fainan's brother comes after me to seek revenge?
VardaValar1: It's 8:14 pm for Eonwe and me, 9:14 EST
VardaValar1: A motive!
ArPharazonV: it's 3:14 am for me
VardaValar1: Aye, we should let you go
ArPharazonV: I should be going soon
VardaValar1: You have class?
ArPharazonV: nope
VardaValar1: *whew*
Eonwe Valar: back
ArPharazonV: you missed a great plottwist, Eonwe ;-)
VardaValar1: Actually, kinslaying between elves was not common the way it is for humans.
VardaValar1: He has a 300 in scrolling, Phar.
ArPharazonV: true
Eonwe Valar: You realize there hasn't been an incident where an Elf has slain another Elf for quite some time? I don't know if THranduil would let you off too easily.
VardaValar1: Thranduil can be pretty strict. : )
ArPharazonV: who says I'm going back to Thranduil? I'd flee to the north in exile, and find the trail of my brother ;-)
VardaValar1: Make it look like an accident.
ArPharazonV: "she stood in the boomagger's path as it came back! not my fault!"
VardaValar1: She's not used to boomaggers, must be true, yep, yep.
ArPharazonV: and it shall be known as the Fourth Kinslaying....
Eonwe Valar: And Thranduil's verdict as he drags you to the stockade? :"It's fine, learn2throw." :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Phar, you found that quote in BoLT
ArPharazonV: oh, right!
VardaValar1: We didn't get you called for it, gahhh
VardaValar1: Now ok?
Eonwe Valar: Which quote?
ArPharazonV: about another union of men and elf, during the saga of Turin
VardaValar1: Elf/human marriage
ArPharazonV: which I mentioned a looong time ago
ArPharazonV: but couldn't remember
ArPharazonV: it's in BoLT 2, obviously
VardaValar1: *fastens backpack of Tolkien books to Pharazon*
ArPharazonV: page 101 for me, when Niniel is brought to the woodmen town
ArPharazonV: "So came it afterward that Nienóri dwelt witht he woodrangers, and after a while entered the house of Bethos, a stout man who had fought though then but a boy in the battle of Unnumbered Tears.
ArPharazonV: Thence did he escape, but his wife was a Noldo-maiden, as the tale telleth, and very fair, and fair also were his sons and daughters save only his eldest son Tamar Lamefoot."
ArPharazonV: as stated in the commentary of this section:
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks. Interesting.
ArPharazonV: "The lame man, here called Tamar, and his vain love of Niniel already appear; unlike his later counterpart Brandir he was not the chief of the Woodmen, but he was the son of the chief.
ArPharazonV: He was also Half-Elven! Most extraordinary is the statement that the wife of Bethos the chieftain and mother of Tamar was an Elf, a woman of the Noldoli;
ArPharazonV: this is mentioned in passing, as if the great significance and rarity of the union of Elf and Mortal had not yet emerged -
ArPharazonV: but in a Name-list associated with the tale of The Fall of Gondolin Earendel is said to be "the only being that is half of the kindred of the Eldalie and half of Men"."
ArPharazonV: end quote
VardaValar1: Intriguing
VardaValar1: That was a drastic change
ArPharazonV: indeed it was
ArPharazonV: at first I thought I'd read it in Unfinished Tales... which would have been even more drastic
VardaValar1: Makes more reason for Earendil to be the turning point that he was.
VardaValar1: aye, later notes
ArPharazonV: since the UT version of the story of Turin was, indeed, the latest of versions
VardaValar1: Well guys, on that very good note, shall we end this Song?
ArPharazonV: Sounds good...
ArPharazonV: it must be the second song, since I'm participating!
VardaValar1: May Irmo grace your dreams with happiness.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Mara mesta
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well
ArPharazonV: Mara Mesta, and Namarie
Arwen V1: =)
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: allrighty, will be saving and sending
Eonwe Valar: Go for it :}
ArPharazonV: I'll leave you with the link to my wishlist
ArPharazonV: in case any druid wants to comment on it!
ArPharazonV: Calaron's my druid, btw ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: I know the Valar aren't actually raiding that much, but some of you may have advice... if so, feel free to contact me, or even leave a comment in the thread!
ArPharazonV: I have like 40-50 items on there... a bit insane, but well, I'm feral, so have to gather loot for 3 roles ;-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArPharazonV: ok, saving now