Valar Guild

September 11, 2005 Meeting

5pm ESDT (GMT -5)

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
IRC:, join channel #valarguild. Public Chat Valar
Sigma Chat: click on  Type in your guild name as the user name.
Say a greeting when you enter on any of these platforms so we'll know you're there!
Bridging program by Farmer Maggot-(V) in operation by Farmer himself.
Back to News
Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon-(V)
and Varda-(Valar)

Attending list and who belongs to that odd AIM name?  :)  (14):
    Aerandir-V/mordacil, ArPharazonV, AuSteinM-TV/AuSteinM, Caranthir-V/MoriFinwe, Dior-V/MyCantalopeH8tsU, Finwe-V/aranfinwe, Gil-galad-V/Xseanzee disco, Idril-V/Narthais, Lungorthin-Valar/sauronjag, FarmerMaggot-V, Fladrif-V (in a side window), Olwe-V/FallenGlory, Orodreth V, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting Begins
    Idril-V rejoined as a full member during the Tolkien section, with question suggestions by all attending!
    AuSteinM-TV just unpacked at MIT and dropped in from there.
    Elladan and Caranthir's homes were caught in Hurricane Katrinka. Caranthir/MoriFinwe dropped by to tell us his news and say hi before moving again, this time to stay with family in Arkansas. Elladan has moved to Baton Rouge, Louisiana to stay with an uncle.
    Merry-V is helping with search and rescue, heading teams and using his light plane.
    Ar-Pharazon, Menelvagor, Fladrif, and other Europeans who are now back in school will have more difficulty coming to meetings as it is very late for them.
    Arathorn, Arwen, Eowyn, and Turin say hi from WoW Lothar through Eowyn, who is sitting at the transcriber's right on another comp.
    Links page
    Humor Page:
        Middle-earth Vacation Spots
    WoW page: Lothar players updates every few days
    Rules page being updated
    D2X Ladder 3 for the guild is going
        WoW Lothar: growing
        WoW Europe: Menelvagor's Gondoline is back in the Argent Dawn group
        WoW: how to powerlevel
    Age of Empires 3 demo
    Dark Age of Camelot
       DAoC Expansion
    BroodWar: Dior-V requests buddies to play with in BW. He's using the account name Dior-V. He hopes to be in WoW Lothar in the future.
    The group suggested questions for Idril's re-test in side windows, spawning a lot of discussion questions in chat:
    Was the One Ring a weapon? Was it a named weapon?
    What happened to the two main villains found in the Shire after the One Ring was destroyed?
       Why did Grima attack Saruman?
       In the movie, they killed Saruman three times.
    Did Lobelia redeem herself?
    The re-making of Arda
    The Last Battle

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
FallenGlory has entered the room.
sauronjag has entered the room.
mordacil has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
mordacil: aiya
FallenGlory: howdy
Narthais has entered the room.
Narthais: hiya
VardaValar1: Aiya
Narthais: sorry i was eating, dunno when you sent that invitation
VardaValar1: Just now
VardaValar1: I try to wait until right at meeting time
VardaValar1: Eating is good : )
Narthais: oh ok
Narthais: yes it is..
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Do you all know how to enter this room on your own?
Narthais: ya
Xseanzee disco: yep.
VardaValar1: Aiya
sauronjag: heyas brb

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielmo
VardaValar1: Member Info:
VardaValar1: Menelvagor and Ar-Pharazon will have more difficulty coming to meetings now, since school started and this is the wee hours of night in Europe
sauronjag: back..
VardaValar1: Eonwe sent his regards and said he will not be able to come tonight
MoriFinwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Arathorn says he may be in a bit late
MoriFinwe: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Caranthir : )
VardaValar1: Turin, Eowyn, Arwen, and Arathorn are in WoW at the moment and say hello through Eowyn
MoriFinwe: Im sry but i cant stay long just dropped in mostly to say hello
VardaValar1: Thanks for doing that, Mori : )
AuSteinM has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
AuSteinM: Hello
AuSteinM: I am finally unpacked at MIT
VardaValar1: Any further membership news?
MoriFinwe: Np hope to be able to make the next meeting but im moving into Baton Rouge that weekend so might be difficult
VardaValar1: That is good membership news : )
VardaValar1: Great, for both of you : )
sauronjag: anyone in the guild affected by katrina??
VardaValar1: Hopefully you will both be settled in and more comfortable soon
MoriFinwe: me lol
sauronjag: did you live in new orleans?
MoriFinwe: metairie right next to it
VardaValar1: Yes, Lungorthin. Morifinwe and Elladan, as it says in the News
MoriFinwe: lost my home too
Xseanzee disco: Aw.
FarmerMaggotV: =(
sauronjag: sorry to both of you :-( glad you both made it out alright though
MoriFinwe: we went back thursday and it was flooded and the mold was already halfway up the walls
Xseanzee disco: flood insurance?
aranfinwe has entered the room.
MoriFinwe: ya we prob gonna have to rebuild
aranfinwe: aiyas, sry bout delay getting in
Xseanzee disco: nice - staying with family?
VardaValar1: We learned there is a paint additive that kills mold. Add it to furniture polish and paint the walls with it
MoriFinwe: ya we have flood insurance at least except for my car which got flooded too
VardaValar1: At least it helped after our church was flooded 6 feet deep
MyCantalopeH8tsU has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
MoriFinwe: ya staying with family in Arkansas
MoriFinwe: Well i must be going Namarie
VardaValar1: Glad you could come!
sauronjag: bye take care
VardaValar1: Namarie
FarmerMaggotV: Namarie!
MoriFinwe has left the room.
VardaValar1: That was rough news
VardaValar1: Katrinka has caused problems in all the area around, as we try to handle the extra loads
VardaValar1: Texas has been glad to receive a great many evacuees
VardaValar1: Elladan has gone to Baton Rouge
VardaValar1: He and his family are staying with an uncle there
VardaValar1: He stayed a short time near where I live and we hoped to get together, but he really needed to move. Very crowded
VardaValar1: Merry-V has been helping with the relief work
VardaValar1: He coordinates a large number of teams and uses his own light plane
VardaValar1: Any other news that you folk know of?
VardaValar1: Member news, I meant : )
VardaValar1: This is Sept 11, plus a time to think of New Orleans
VardaValar1: We offer what we can, and try to give folks a place to come for a rest
VardaValar1: We also offer a place to help with contact and have been doing so

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Farmer Maggot has been working on the Bridge again
VardaValar1: Farmer, could you tell the group any more about it?
FarmerMaggotV: Just working on a system to allow Varda to relaunch it easily
FarmerMaggotV: not much, heh
VardaValar1: Sounds like a lot to me : )
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: sorry I'm late, led a raid to kill Araj the Summoner
VardaValar1: Is the Bridge up now?
ArPharazonV: what did I miss?
FarmerMaggotV: yes, it's up
VardaValar1: Member news. Caranthir dropped by. Said his house was ruined in New Orleans
VardaValar1: Thanks, Farmer
ArPharazonV: dang...
VardaValar1: aye

VardaValar1: Now on Web News
VardaValar1: Phar, the Lothar players also say they expect to be late ;-)
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: On the Links page, new link:
VardaValar1: Wraiths on Wings - Tolkien movie and book site with info on both. Forum. Requested link. Site by Haunted_Bre or just Bre
VardaValar1: We have started a new humor section, something much needed for cheering people right now
VardaValar1: It's part of Menelvagor's pages, not a new Humor section, but a part in it
VardaValar1: Middle-earth Vacation Spots
ArPharazonV: wraiths on wings... gotta love Gollum-quotes
VardaValar1: cation/indexVac.htm
VardaValar1: Aye : )
VardaValar1: We have two vacation spots up now, with some others started
VardaValar1: If anyone would like to make their own "advertisement" for a Middle-earth vacation spot, send me the address of the web page
VardaValar1: or send what you would like put on one if you don't know how.
VardaValar1: We also have folks here, including me, who would help you make a fun page like that
VardaValar1: My email is on the website
VardaValar1: So if you have a favorite place in Middle-earth, this is your chance!
ArPharazonV: Mount Doom. Enjoy the sauna, and burn away your itches in the hot streaming magma...
VardaValar1: There you go : )
VardaValar1: On Menelvagor's WoW page,
ArPharazonV: it improves the skin! or burns it away... either way
VardaValar1: the Lothar players' page is updated every few days
VardaValar1: I do that when I go in to play, but I don't know your skill info such as alchemy, leatherworking, or whatever
VardaValar1: Email and let me know so we can send goodies to the right people!
VardaValar1: Any further web news?
VardaValar1: Anything you guys would like to see added to the web site?
VardaValar1: Anything you wish we would get rid of? ;-)
ArPharazonV: the rules? neh...
VardaValar1: Actually, we are working on that
VardaValar1: The ones on Aule's page are outdated
VardaValar1: He doesn't seem to be updating his pages anymore and does not respond to updates sent in
ArPharazonV: yeah, it's a bit... diablo-ish
VardaValar1: so we are making a new page that reflects current things we do
VardaValar1: We will have to bypass him with new links, sad but true
VardaValar1: It is almost done
VardaValar1: Elatan made the new rules and the rest of the Council are going over it
VardaValar1: When it's posted, we need you guys to look it over and help us straighten it out
VardaValar1: We have actually been known to...make mistakes1
VardaValar1: like typing 1 for !
VardaValar1: Also, if a rule is unreasonable, tell us
VardaValar1: It may be a typle
VardaValar1: like that.
VardaValar1: Or we may need to re-think it.
ArPharazonV: you're really on a roll here, aren't you Varda? with the typos ;-)
VardaValar1: Don't let a lousy rule just pass by
VardaValar1: Tired, sorry : )
ArPharazonV: np
ArPharazonV: it's still understandable
VardaValar1: Just look over the rules when we get them up and send in your comments
VardaValar1: This is your club
VardaValar1: Council is just people trying to do what the group wants and needs
VardaValar1: We are also replaceable
ArPharazonV: so if we cast a vote to overthrow the council...
VardaValar1: Will anyone notice? : )
sauronjag: haha :-)
VardaValar1: If the Council all gets booted, would that be noticed either? : )
ArPharazonV: notice that we cast the vote, or notice that there is a new council?
ArPharazonV: not sure...
VardaValar1: And who will vote. Just Phar?
ArPharazonV: I think you do a good job...
VardaValar1: Well, let me know when you figure it out
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: If you do or don't like something, tell us
VardaValar1: We try to work it out
ArPharazonV: don't worry, I'm not interested in jobs with authority... so I won't be hunting after your position :-)
VardaValar1: I didn't want it either. You just get stuck with it
ArPharazonV: is that right?
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
ArPharazonV: so if I continue to never send articles, or stick out a finger to help the guild.... I can still be looked upon for promotion?
VardaValar1: You get stuck with it by doing stuff
VardaValar1: Makes you fall into it
ArPharazonV: very true

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: D2X Ladder 3 for the guild is going
VardaValar1: Please email me with your D2X account name, type, and level for the new web page for it
VardaValar1: Or that you play D2X and have account name X, but don't play ladder
VardaValar1: We can still have each other on friend lists and chat
VardaValar1: WoW Lothar is getting bigger, and has people considering joining us
VardaValar1: We get together more often on non-guild nights better for some reason
VardaValar1: Lot of grouping
VardaValar1: WoW Europe have any news?
ArPharazonV: so.... has anyone suggested moving the guild-night to another night, then? ;-)
VardaValar1: Sure
VardaValar1: Thursday night suggested, not enough agree on any one night
ArPharazonV: WoW Europe? Hmm.... what can I say about it....
VardaValar1: We just all come and often group
ArPharazonV: I gained 60!
VardaValar1: Do you see any of the other Valar there?
VardaValar1: oh! Great, Phar1
ArPharazonV: Gondoline's back in the Guild...
VardaValar1: That's Menelvagor?
ArPharazonV: hmm... RSA is subject to inner turmoil...
ArPharazonV: yes
ArPharazonV: and RSA is the Rising Star Alliance
VardaValar1: Congrats to Menel : )
ArPharazonV: a raid-alliance forged by the High Guard and several other guilds
ArPharazonV: the High Guard is our Guild
ArPharazonV: but how that ends... you might want to ask Menel
VardaValar1: And Menel helped set it up and is no longer helming, so that caused problems
VardaValar1: Sure, when we see him again : )
ArPharazonV: indeed
VardaValar1: Any other games being played by anyone this week?
ArPharazonV: I'm not too big into structural matters of the Guild or Alliance...
ArPharazonV: haven't even raided with them yet
sauronjag: Dark Age :-)
aranfinwe: Halo
FarmerMaggotV: I've been playing the new Age of Empires 3 demo
FallenGlory: I have no time for games :-\
ArPharazonV: AoE 3? is it cool?
VardaValar1: ahh good to hear all those! Except Fallen's
FallenGlory: heh
FarmerMaggotV: though, tired of it already (not enough variety in the demo)
FarmerMaggotV: AoE 3 is cool
sauronjag: aye halo2 as well different console htough :-)
ArPharazonV: I've got 1 and 2 as well... liked 1 better than 2, but still...
aranfinwe: lol, Halo on comp, have Halo2 as well, tho
ArPharazonV: I mean AoE :-)
FarmerMaggotV: I wrote up a few of the things I disliked @
VardaValar1: Did you also say what you liked?
ArPharazonV: the rest, obviously :-)
FarmerMaggotV: not really, but it's assumed everything not mentioned is liked ;-)
VardaValar1: Not assumed, sorry
ArPharazonV: ...trains? in AoE? hmm...
FarmerMaggotV: it's a bit like WC3, but based in the real world, instead of the mythical WC3 one (and this has cannons and artillery and the buildings realistically fall apart on impact =))
FallenGlory: they use something that's comparable to havok physics, I think
FarmerMaggotV: yep, they used Havok
VardaValar1: Interactive scenery is always fun : )
FarmerMaggotV: 7/3/d7348fe3-d498-4e13-96c6-3da92e8f0 c62/aoe3trial.exe
FallenGlory: which is what was used in HL2, if any of you have any clue what I'm talking about
FallenGlory: excellent :-)
FarmerMaggotV: it won't install on anything other than XP, but you can install it on an XP box and copy it to your 2k one and it plays
ArPharazonV: big file.... could take some hours to download... I wish I had netpumper again...
FarmerMaggotV: it was fast for me, 20 or so minutes
ArPharazonV: 374 mb? hmm...
ArPharazonV: eta: 8 hours
ArPharazonV: ok, 7 and a half now...
FarmerMaggotV: 7/Age_of_Empires_3_-_Screenshot_2.jpg
FallenGlory: what kind of connection do you have?
FarmerMaggotV: don't expect it to look that good unless you have *really* good hardware (which I don't)
ArPharazonV: not dialup, that's for sure...
ArPharazonV: broadband, I think
FallenGlory: lol, that's not too specific, but alright :-)
ArPharazonV: sorry, no expert
FallenGlory: thats fine, was just curious
ArPharazonV: but I'll leave it on for the night... so I don't have to interrupt the downloading
ArPharazonV: hmm... I used Netpumper in the past.... perhaps I can use it again now
ArPharazonV: it's going at about 15 kb/s now
ArPharazonV: or 14.5
VardaValar1: Lungorthin, could you tell us how you're doing on DAoC?
VardaValar1: Weren't you on two servers?
sauronjag: Aye I was and still am
sauronjag: I play on 3 different servers
sauronjag: mostly on only one
VardaValar1: Which one?
sauronjag: dark age has 3 different realms per server. hibernia, midgard and albion
sauronjag: each with their different mythologies
sauronjag: midgard = norse, albion = celtic, hibernia = nature mythology not really concurrent w/ one culture
sauronjag: so it's fun to get a glimpse of all three.
sauronjag: the main realm I play on now is hibernia on a brand new server mythic (the game creators) made
VardaValar1: Which do you mostly play?
sauronjag: it's called a classic server
Narthais: lamorak or gareth?
sauronjag: lamorak
sauronjag: lamorak and gareth are 2 of the new classic servers made
sauronjag: I forget what the other is called.. oops :-)
MyCantalopeH8tsU has left the room.
Narthais: maybe hector? i might be making that up
sauronjag: but it removes a lot of complexities the latest expansions have added like weapons and armor attributes
sauronjag: hector I think it is narthais :-)
sauronjag: the new servers made it easy for people to start playing dark age again when they thought it became too complicated. everyone got a fresh start
sauronjag: it is barely over a month old, and many people have switched from their old main servers to join these 3
sauronjag: so the populations are swelling
sauronjag: compared to the others
Narthais: other servers arent doing too well
sauronjag: aye, most are under 1000 at any given time :-(
VardaValar1: You mentioned once that some servers are "no-growth"? Can't be joined?
sauronjag: the older servers can still be joined by anyone. when I say no-growth I mean that you rarely see lower level characters. which makes it hard to start a character there yourself
sauronjag: no one to group w/
sauronjag: or play w/
sauronjag: until you reach the max level with everyone else on the server
sauronjag: with these newer servers that problem is fixed because so many people have just started like when the game originally came out
VardaValar1: Seems if you knew a fellow Valar there, they might make an alt to join you sometimes?
sauronjag: aye have tried that on hib perc :-( ex-irmo and gelmir were always busy with playing their main characters. ex-irmo would be leading raids and whatnot hard for him to get out of that, and gelmir is very attached to frontiers play
sauronjag: frontiers = pvp
VardaValar1: ouch
sauronjag: those are the only two I knew from the guild as it was when the game came out
sauronjag: also a new expansion is coming out for dark age called darkness rising
VardaValar1: Irmo is not an ex, by the way : )
VardaValar1: He's still Irmo-(Valar)
sauronjag: it will add among other things personal horses which is a nice feature in my mind of WoW
sauronjag: ooooh I didn't know that :-( I'm sorry
VardaValar1: np - that's what meetings are for : )
sauronjag: it will also add something called champion weapons. in a previous expansion some items called "artifacts" were added to the game. these were very good quality items and the most sought after.
sauronjag: with the new classic servers these artifact items are not available because the whole section of that expansion was disabled
sauronjag: because it was an expansion and classic servers went back to before expansions :-)
sauronjag: champion weapons are supposed to be the new alternative that everyone can get w/o spawncamping an area
Narthais: will the classic servers be getting the darkness rising expansion?
sauronjag: yes I believe they are affecting all the servers
sauronjag: hopefully with the new update (the classic servers) and the new expansion coming out (darkness rising) the game will be more appealing to newcomers
sauronjag: I've started playing on the new classic server and I think it's totally revitalizing and new so I stuck w/ it
VardaValar1: That sounds promising :-)
sauronjag: so if anyone is getting bored of WoW **gasp** hehe dark age is an alternative ;-)
Narthais: do you have any characters on the GaMBIT cluster?
sauronjag: which cluster is that? don't know the nicknames for them since I haven't played on them in awhile
Narthais: galahad/mlf/bedevere/igraine/tristan
sauronjag: nope none on there :-(
Narthais: aw =(
sauronjag: I have characters on the merlin cluster
sauronjag: and the lancelot cluster
sauronjag: albion and midgard respectively
VardaValar1: Maybe you could both make level ones and hang out somewhere : )
sauronjag: do you play? or did you used to?
Narthais: i have albs on gala and hib on bedevere
sauronjag: ooooh, those are two of the older servers
Narthais: some mids on lancelot.. but i dont play there anymore
VardaValar1: But they are not deleted, in case you just want to play them?
sauronjag: you think about starting on the new servers or do you not want to start over again?
Narthais: yes, i can still play them
ArPharazonV: so it's... clusters-servers-realms?
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sauronjag: 1 server. 3 realms per server
Narthais: and ive been thinking about starting on one of the classic servers
mordacil has entered the room.
sauronjag: some of the servers are "clustered" together. so the individual realms on the server get to play with the respective realms on teh other servers
ArPharazonV: cool
sauronjag: it helps a lot with the no-growth factor
sauronjag: so all the little servers play together to make a big server
MyCantalopeH8tsU has entered the room.
mordacil has left the room.
sauronjag: I think only the expansion areas and the pvp areas are clustered though.. I might be mistaken
Narthais: you can travel to any of the otehr servers
Narthais: but yes, only expansion and pvp are clustered
sauronjag: ah I forgot about that
sauronjag: but if you do start you should come to hib lamorak :-)
sauronjag: I have a 45 enchanter that I'm actually playing right now
Narthais: cool ^^
sauronjag: is there a way to powerlevel in WoW?
VardaValar1: One, why? But two, have a bigger friend alongside.
sauronjag: aye
sauronjag: in dark age, in hibernia, an enchanter is probably the best character to powerlevel with ;-)
VardaValar1: They can help you kill things you would not usually, or rez you if the right type
ArPharazonV: if you fight with a much bigger friend in WoW, you hardly get the xp....
ArPharazonV: so you'd have to not party
sauronjag: oooh okay
Orodreth V has entered the room.
sauronjag: so different kind of power leveling
ArPharazonV: tag the enemy, and have your friend help with the killing
sauronjag: in darkage if you're in the same group the bigger one can do all the killing
ArPharazonV: same in WoW, but you get very little to no experience, based on the level of the bigger one :-)
Narthais: im addicted to power leveling =(
sauronjag: hehe nar
Orodreth V: Hey all.
ArPharazonV: hey
Narthais: hi
Orodreth V: Eeek, it's the guy who ran me over in his car!
Orodreth V: /me hides
VardaValar1: Aiya
sauronjag: heya oro
mordacil has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back

VardaValar1: Ok, I'm going to enlist everyone's help : )
VardaValar1: Idril aka Narthais is rejoining
VardaValar1: So for our Tolkien test part
VardaValar1: all of you get to suggest a question good for entry to me to pass on : )
VardaValar1: If you say it in the chat, please don't give the answer!
VardaValar1: I'll pick from your suggestions
Narthais: pick some good ones o.o
VardaValar1: heheh
ArPharazonV: ehrm... my mind is blank... give me a moment to think...
VardaValar1: You can whisper them in a side window if you prefer
VardaValar1: Narthais, I assume you don't really want your test in the public chat? : )
Narthais: nty =P
VardaValar1: hehe - ok
FarmerMaggotV: nty?
VardaValar1: No thank you
FarmerMaggotV: ah
FarmerMaggotV: not one I've ever come across before, heh
VardaValar1: But you can all suggest entry questions
VardaValar1: Something you think would be ok if you find yourself re-entering ;-)
VardaValar1: Thanks to Lungorthin for a question : )
VardaValar1: Need three more! Think, guys!
VardaValar1: Think of something the movies left out or changed. : )
VardaValar1: If nothing else, we can pick on the movie! ;-)
VardaValar1: Thanks to Farmer and Lungorthin, who picked the same dire question. : )
VardaValar1: Fladrif said a quick hi on AIM before I caught it. He has been on European WoW.
ArPharazonV: yup, he has
VardaValar1: He just couldn't leave
ArPharazonV: was busy in the Blasted Lands, I think.. when I logged out
mordacil: I gotta go
mordacil: school project
ArPharazonV: ok, Namarie!
mordacil: namarie
mordacil has left the room.
VardaValar1: bye!
VardaValar1: She has two out of two right, but had to answer the phone
VardaValar1: She's back : )
VardaValar1: Some of the questions are repeats, feel free to suggest more folks
ArPharazonV: thinking if I can come up with a Bombadil-question that isn't going too far into details...
VardaValar1: She got that one already ; )
FarmerMaggotV: heh
VardaValar1: Try not to give answers in the chat room : )
ArPharazonV: no, not answers.... just general topics for questions... dealt with the Scouring yet?
VardaValar1: Phar, please side window
ArPharazonV: ok, sure, if you think my topics worth discussing..
VardaValar1: All things in Tolkien are worth discussing ; )
VardaValar1: Three down
VardaValar1: We need one more question that does not overlap
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VardaValar1: Dior says his connection at school is unstable
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VardaValar1: It's ok if you list one or more someone else suggests, I just have to pick through them
VardaValar1: No, this is not the most efficient way ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: still in need of questions?
VardaValar1: might be fun
VardaValar1: We have at least one that makes a good discussion queston
FarmerMaggotV: I s'pose I could run upstairs and get my book
sauronjag: good discussion indeed :-)
VardaValar1: For the group, is the One Ring a weapon? : )
ArPharazonV: this is for discussion?
VardaValar1: Sure, if any of you have an opinion
ArPharazonV: well, I'd say it is indeed a weapon, yet not a conventional one
ArPharazonV: instead of reaping direct damage, it can be used to corrupt the mighty, and gain knowledge from bearers of lesser rings
FarmerMaggotV: I agree with Phar
FarmerMaggotV: it was designed for the specific purpose of being used as a weapon
VardaValar1: Can it be considered a named weapon?
ArPharazonV: ...what?
VardaValar1: The One Ring : )
FarmerMaggotV: I don't get what you mean by named weapon though
ArPharazonV: me neither
VardaValar1: Sting is a named weapon
VardaValar1: Anduril is a named weapon
VardaValar1: Glamdring
VardaValar1: Orcrist
FarmerMaggotV: well, me and Phar think it's a weapon, and it has a name, so I'd say yes
VardaValar1: Good : )
ArPharazonV: it has a title, more than a name in itself...
VardaValar1: But if you say One Ring, everyone knows exactly which item you mean
ArPharazonV: indeed
VardaValar1: and it is capitalized
ArPharazonV: but again, that can also be the case with a title
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ArPharazonV: if you talk about the Lord of Rivendell, you know who I'm talking about
ArPharazonV: or the Lady of Lorien
VardaValar1: Sure, Elladan and Elrohir ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: heh, but there was / is only one One Ring
ArPharazonV: no, there are many Rings, this is just the One Ring as in better than the others
ArPharazonV: oh, right
ArPharazonV: sorry, misread
FarmerMaggotV: heh
VardaValar1: Actually you had a point about Elrond
VardaValar1: However, we know out of all times and places exactly what is meant by the One Ring, and there is no other
ArPharazonV: here's something... Anduril was indeed a name.. yet 'flame of the west'... can that be considered a title, a name, or merely a translation?
VardaValar1: Do you find it capitalized?
ArPharazonV: good question, let me see :-)
VardaValar1: or Flammifer of Westernesse : )
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ArPharazonV: sorry, rotk is the one book I don't have downstairs, so can't check the index
VardaValar1: Welcome back
VardaValar1: So can you get it without waking someone/
VardaValar1: ?
ArPharazonV: according to Index: Anduril Flame of the West
VardaValar1: capitals, so it's a name. Yay!
ArPharazonV: does that mean the White Lady is also a name?
VardaValar1: It is used that way
ArPharazonV: in that case, so is the One Ring
VardaValar1: It is used for more than one lady
ArPharazonV: not technically a name, yet used for one
VardaValar1: Varda, Eowyn, and one or more in Sil
ArPharazonV: like Idril, yes...
VardaValar1: thanks : )
VardaValar1: Our lady being tested
ArPharazonV: Varda= also a White Lady?
VardaValar1: yes
ArPharazonV: well then, that makes it more indeed :-)
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: Welcome back to the Valar Guild, Idril-V!
Narthais: thank you ^^
Narthais: happy to be back =D
sauronjag: welcome back idril :-)
ArPharazonV: welcome back, my ancestress!
sauronjag: congratulations
FarmerMaggotV: hurrah!
VardaValar1: Thank you all, for the group effort!
Narthais: thanks all
VardaValar1: Thank you to Idril for making us wonder if the One Ring is a named weapon!
Narthais: lol
Narthais: what's the end decision on that one? ^^
VardaValar1: Now, for all of you. She got most of this last question, but we did not go into it
ArPharazonV: I still say One Ring is far from an actual name... but it is used like it, indeed
VardaValar1: I'm saying yes, as head tester
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: and main tester
VardaValar1: and will welcome discussion for the next eight years until someone changes my mind ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: ... huh?
VardaValar1: The last question, which several suggested, was in the Scouring of the Shire
VardaValar1: After the Hobbits returned home to the Shire after the War of the Ring, which villain(s) did they find and what happened to said villain(s)?
VardaValar1: I am asking our discussion group now, what happened to the two main villains?
ArPharazonV: one was killed by the other, the other was shot down by Hobbit-arrows
FarmerMaggotV: do the Sackville Baggins count as villains? ;-)
VardaValar1: hehe - annoyances at least
VardaValar1: But wouldn't you say Lobelia redeemed herself?
sauronjag: I would say she did
sauronjag: all right guildies, have to get ready for volunteering.. namarie :-) gratz again idril
VardaValar1: I'd like more detail
ArPharazonV: well, yes, after they released her.. but as for standing up against the villains... well, that was just being annoying again, but versus the other side
VardaValar1: Namarie, Lungorthin!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
VardaValar1: aye, Phar : )
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ArPharazonV: but giving back Bag End, etc... yes, that was redeeming
VardaValar1: aye!
VardaValar1: Ok, why did Grima attack Saruman?
ArPharazonV: for belittling him, making him grovel...
ArPharazonV: until he was pushed over the edge
VardaValar1: One more thing...
ArPharazonV: with the kicking in the face and all...
ArPharazonV: hm?
VardaValar1: mm hmm
VardaValar1: One more thing
VardaValar1: Frodo made Grima an offer he didn't want to refuse.
VardaValar1: Saruman destroyed that hope.
FarmerMaggotV: I don't remember that... but I do remember that Grima was warned before he killed Sarumon that he would be killed by all the hobbits
ArPharazonV: no, no... Frodo offered him to stay
ArPharazonV: "I know of no evil you have done to me. You can have rest and food here for a while, until you are stronger and can go your own ways."
VardaValar1: He offered Grima freedom from Saruman and all other oppression that he had lived under so long
ArPharazonV: 'Wormtongue halted and looked back at him, half prepared to stay. Saruman turned. "No evil?" he cackled...'
ArPharazonV: and then Saruman told everyone that Grima had killed Lotho, and Wormtongue replied that "You told me to; you made me do it"
ArPharazonV: Saruman laughed. "You do what Sharky says, always, don't you, Worm? Well, now he says: follow!" He kicked Wormtongue in the face as he grovelled, and turned and made off.
ArPharazonV: and thus Grima snapped :-(
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar! The quote is great!
ArPharazonV: don't thank me... thank Tolkien :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you, Tolkien : )
VardaValar1: Thank you Phar, for quoting it : )
ArPharazonV: it's pieces like that that make me realise how good Tolkien was with words
VardaValar1: He was incredible
VardaValar1: Ok - for more fun.
VardaValar1: Saruman was a Maia. When he died, it was not a simple flop over on the ground.
VardaValar1: Bodies were clothing for the Ainur, not what kept them alive.
VardaValar1: So what happened to Saruman?
ArPharazonV: yup... as he died, his spirit disappeared into a great smoke... as his body shrivelled to extreme age
VardaValar1: Anyone want to quote?
FarmerMaggotV: "about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great heihgt like smoke in a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill"
FarmerMaggotV: "For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the West came a cold wind; and it bent away, and with a sigh dissolved into nothing."
ArPharazonV: "for as he looked it seemed that long years of death were suddenly revealed in it, and it shrank, and the shrivelled face became rags of skin upon a hideous skull."
VardaValar1: *applause*
VardaValar1: Thank you, Farmer1
VardaValar1: !
ArPharazonV: "Lifting up the skirt of the dirty cloak that sprawled beside it, he covered it over, and turned away."
VardaValar1: Thank you, Pharazon
VardaValar1: A very powerful scene. It really should have been in the movie. : )
FarmerMaggotV: heh
VardaValar1: Thank you, gentlemen.
ArPharazonV: in the movie, they killed Saruman three times, as to some ancient legend that Wizards have to be slain thrice
VardaValar1: and Lady : )
ArPharazonV: first, a stab in the back
FarmerMaggotV: the West is towards Valinor, correct?
VardaValar1: Right, Farmer
ArPharazonV: second, falling off a tower unto a big spike
ArPharazonV: third, drowning
FarmerMaggotV: heh, very nice story telling (as usual)
VardaValar1: The triple kill was good tipping of the hat to myth, at least
VardaValar1: For the readers of the Sil and other books, there is a wealth of interesting inference to play with in the LotR.
VardaValar1: If we read only the LotR, we would not really understand Saruman's facing the West, and the Wind blowing him away.
FarmerMaggotV: yes, very neat
ArPharazonV: what exactly did that mean? the Wind out of the West blowing him away? Valinor rejecting him?
VardaValar1: Sauron's death is told twice, and one of them sounds similar to this.
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar
FarmerMaggotV: that's what I was thinking
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VardaValar1: Manwe, King of Arda, highest of the Valar, was the Vala of the Air and of winds.
FarmerMaggotV: ah
VardaValar1: Pretty definite rejection
ArPharazonV: and Saruman's spirit was no longer worthy of the Undying lands...
VardaValar1: He was not welcome to return
ArPharazonV: yup
ArPharazonV: a lone spirit, exiled for eternity
VardaValar1: I really suggest finding the reference to Sauron's spirit as well
VardaValar1: Or until the remaking of Arda
FarmerMaggotV: what counts as that Varda? the next age?
VardaValar1: Interesting that Saruman would even look towards the West!
VardaValar1: no
VardaValar1: After the Last Battle
VardaValar1: The world will be re-made
ArPharazonV: Saruman looking towards the West... a brief moment of repentance?
FarmerMaggotV: ah, must be beyond how far I got in the Sil
FarmerMaggotV: or a greedy last hope he can save himself
VardaValar1: The Last Battle is when Manwe comes down from Mt. Taniquetil and battles Morgoth, along with all those on either side.
VardaValar1: Now that will be a battle!
ArPharazonV: I believe Turin is in that battle?
FarmerMaggotV: similar to Norse mythology, but is the outcome told?
VardaValar1: The outcome is told
VardaValar1: In one version, Turin is in that battle.
ArPharazonV: and he shall be the Bane of Morgoth at last?
VardaValar1: Depends on the version. : )
ArPharazonV: and thus the hurts of Hurin and Men will be avenged...
FarmerMaggotV: similar also to the book of Revelations, I'd assume the Vala win?
VardaValar1: Unlike Ragnarok, the gods win
FarmerMaggotV: hehe
VardaValar1: Right, Farmer
VardaValar1: Then the old Arda passes away
ArPharazonV: and Feanor presents Yavanna the Silmarilli, and she breaks them, using them to rekindle the Trees
FarmerMaggotV: but all living in the West (Sam / Frodo / the elves) remain?
VardaValar1: A new one is sung aright, with all knowing their correct parts at last
FarmerMaggotV: what about Illuvatar?
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VardaValar1: Illuvatar set this all up : )
FarmerMaggotV: ah
VardaValar1: We are going through a learning curve right now ;-)
ArPharazonV: and the Second Children will join in the Song... but of the fate of the Elves, nothing is told
Narthais: where is all this writen?
FarmerMaggotV: the Silmarilian (sp?)
VardaValar1: Unfinished Tales, Histories of Middle-earth, some in the Silmarillion
VardaValar1: Just a tiny reference here and there that we have to glean
Narthais: ok ty, have to go read them again =)
VardaValar1: We aim to use all your reading time ;-)
VardaValar1: I suggest taking notes whenever re-reading
VardaValar1: They are the stuff of articles
FarmerMaggotV: isn't the Histories of Middle-Earth more on what Tolkien was thinking than an actual story?
VardaValar1: aye, Farmer
VardaValar1: The Histories tell it as he thought of it and changed it as he went along
FarmerMaggotV: ah
VardaValar1: The earliest version is in the Books of Lost Tales 1 & 2
FarmerMaggotV: well, I'm out for a walk, later
VardaValar1: But where they are not changed and no more detail is given, it is all we have for guessing what might have happened
VardaValar1: Good idea!
VardaValar1: We are pretty well finished here : )

VardaValar1: If any of you wish to get together for gaming, this is a good time to discuss it
VardaValar1: Dior-V still plays BroodWar and feels lonely
VardaValar1: Account name is Dior-V, please place on friend lists!
VardaValar1: I think a walk and bite of supper sound very good. :-)
VardaValar1: Namarie!
Narthais: namarie anyone who's leaving
VardaValar1: or at least going afk ;-)
Narthais: im off to do homework myself
VardaValar1: Good plan!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
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ArPharazonV: hmm.... that AoE3-trial-file is going a lot faster every time
ArPharazonV: now, it's only 7 minutes away, and going at least thrice as fast as the speed I gave earlier
ArPharazonV: make that 5 minutes
ArPharazonV: it is done! amazing...
ArPharazonV: oh well, time to save, unless anybody's here with an idea for discussion?
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