Valar Guild

October 23, 2005 Meeting

5pm ESDT (GMT -5)

AIM: Valar Guild
IRC: irc.freenode.net, join channel #valarguild. http://freenode.net/
Battle.net: Public Chat Valar
Sigma Chat: click on http://client0.sigmachat.com/sc.pl?id=90005  Type in your guild name as the user name.
Say a greeting when you enter on any of these platforms so we'll know you're there!
Bridging program by Farmer Maggot-(V) in operation by Farmer himself.
Back to News
Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon-(Valar)
and Varda-(Valar)

Attending list and who belongs to that odd AIM name anyway?  :)  (16)
    Members: Aerandir-(V)/mordacil, ArPharazonV, Arwen V1, Barahir-(V)/VegetableMannn, Caranthir-(V)/El Capitan Chobo, Eonwe Valar, Finwe-(V)/aranfinwe, FladrifV, Gil-galad-(V)/Xseanzee disco, GilraenV,  Farmer Maggot-(V)/bnetValar, Menelvagor Valar, Olwe-(V)/FallenGlory, Orodreth V, Valandil Valar, VardaValar1 (presiding)
    Guest: Srekal86

Before-meeting
Begin
Members
    Ugluk the return
    Farmer Maggot's birthday
    Fladrif
Web
    Links
    News
    Story
    Encyclopedia menu
    Articles
    Membership page
    WoW page
Gaming
    WoW
Tolkien:
    Tom Bombadil, where do we place him? Gil-galad-(V)'s topic
    Tolkien movies
    Tolkien music
After-meeting

Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Srekal86 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
Srekal86: Aiya ;-)
VardaValar1: I show ten minutes early yet
Srekal86: ya.
VardaValar1: Anything you want to say before we start up? : )
Srekal86: hm, not that I can think of.
VardaValar1: Glad you could make it
VardaValar1: I know you by another name, can't think of it...
VardaValar1: probably your email name?
VardaValar1: Help me here? : )
VardaValar1: Hyarion!
VardaValar1: Fellow Encyc maker :-)
Srekal86: heh back, sorry laundry beeped
Srekal86: Hyarion ;-)
VardaValar1: Mine does that too. Such demanding machines : )
Srekal86: indeed ;-)
VardaValar1: You got me to thinking about the frames. I don't see them much as I'm usually working on the inside part
VardaValar1: They've been given much needed attention thanks to you!
Srekal86: heh ya
VardaValar1: Much appreciated
VardaValar1: Not enough hours in the day :-)
Srekal86: ah, well I hope not too much, but its always good to get another perspective on a website
VardaValar1: It truly is a big help!
VardaValar1: It should be tied together much better, a tad more uniform. Easier to use
Srekal86: We've been busy at our encyclopedia this week, I bet we've added 500 pages.
VardaValar1: You got me to looking at the how on some other sites
VardaValar1: very cool :-)
VardaValar1: You had much help?
Srekal86: ya, unfortunately the more unity a website has, theres about a billion more lines of code heh
VardaValar1: 500 pages, egad
Srekal86: heh ya
VardaValar1: How many helpers did you have this week, about?
Srekal86: We should hit 5,000 by the end of the year
Srekal86: not too many, 1 or 2 people contributed something but it was primarily myself.
VardaValar1: You did 500 pages, mostly alone
Srekal86: ya, you'd be surprised at how much time I spent on the computer ;-)
VardaValar1: I doff my hat or tiara or whatever
Srekal86: hah
VardaValar1: I am one of the few who would not be surprised
VardaValar1: You were living in front of it
Srekal86: I'm sure the content isn't nearly up to par in comparison to yours though.
VardaValar1: The content on "mine" leaves much to be desired
VardaValar1: It has some spots with college papers done on a subject, some with barely an image
VardaValar1: Some only have stories or poems
VardaValar1: Needs much work
VardaValar1: I used to think I'd just write the thing myself, but pulled back and tried to let the guild do its thing
VardaValar1: About time I went in and filled a lot of holes though
Srekal86: thats the best part of the wiki, if I keep up at this pace more and more people will start helping
VardaValar1: Gang is too fond of the Sil ;-)
VardaValar1: I've had help over the years
Srekal86: ;-)
VardaValar1: That sounds good
VardaValar1: Or they will all start their own encycs
VardaValar1: ahh, looks like time to start inviting
Srekal86: more good news is that our irc server is doing very well, we are starting to average 10-15 people in the main channel.
Srekal86: yep :-)
Srekal86: /me sits back to watch
VardaValar1: It's delightful to talk with a fellow Encyc maker
Srekal86: indeed.
VardaValar1: Please don't. Participate
VardaValar1: Maybe you can think of a Tolkien topic after all that1
VardaValar1: You will pass us soon
VardaValar1: Thanks for coming
Srekal86: ah np, I love Tolkien discussions.
Srekal86: and I love gaming almost as much
FallenGlory has entered the room.
FladrifV has entered the room.
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
GilraenV has entered the room.
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: good thing : )
VardaValar1: Aiya!
Arwen V1: =)
mordacil has entered the room.
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
FarmerMaggotV: ooh, forgot completely about this
aranfinwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
Srekal86: /me tsks @ FarmerMaggotV
GilraenV: Aiya folks
bnetValar has entered the room.
Srekal86: Aiya.
mordacil: aiya
VardaValar1: Thanks for the fast bridging there, Farmer : )
Srekal86: /me needs to learn some more Quenya phrases other than Aiya/Namarie
aranfinwe: aiyas
VardaValar1: Your speed always amazes me
FarmerMaggotV: heh
VardaValar1: Mara mesta
VardaValar1: We could throw some more in here : )
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: sorry I'm late, had some stuff to finish up in IF
FladrifV: Aiya
Xseanzee disco: heyy
VardaValar1: Aiya Nossë Valaina
mordacil: I have to go work on homework so Ill just leave this chat going
VardaValar1: Hail, Valar Guild
VardaValar1: Thanks Aerandir : )
VardaValar1: Scroll is good, quick catch up as you like : )
FarmerMaggotV: gr, I can't seem to get the Bnet end to stay online
VardaValar1: Not late, we just arrived
FarmerMaggotV: could you all be quiet for a few secs see if that helps?
FarmerMaggotV: well, it's probably either on, or broken
FarmerMaggotV: I think it's working though
VardaValar1: Need a few more seconds?
FarmerMaggotV: nope
VardaValar1: Thanks for your efforts!
VardaValar1: Whisper me if anyone has something to bring up, even if it's for another part of the meeting
VardaValar1: Tolkien topics welcome, always, as you know : )
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VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
FarmerMaggotV: I'm going out to dinner, it's my birthday the 25th, namarie!
VardaValar1: A star shines on the hour of our meeting.
Xseanzee disco: what did we decide Tom Bombadil was?
Xseanzee disco: lol
VardaValar1: Congrats!
VardaValar1: Maia : )
VardaValar1: Enjoy dinner!
Xseanzee disco: happy birthday
FarmerMaggotV: thanks =)
GilraenV: felicitations
VardaValar1: How old? : )
FarmerMaggotV: 16
VardaValar1: A lovely age : )
VardaValar1: Enjoy your dinner and 16th year!
VardaValar1: Gil-galad, that might be a good topic - we haven't played with it in a while and we have new folk for comments
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VardaValar1: Membership Info:
VardaValar1: Perhaps some of you remember Ugluk-(V)?
VardaValar1: He has been with the guild for many years, but we missed email contact last year for the first time
VardaValar1: He's a sailor, so it's hard to make contact
VardaValar1: He's back, borrowing a work computer
VardaValar1: He says hi to all and hopes to be able to catch some of the meetings
VardaValar1: He is also on WoW a little
VardaValar1: We are being visited again today by Hyarion, aka Srekal86
VardaValar1: He's been working hard on his own Encyc and group, very impressive amount of work
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: hey
Srekal86: /me smiles
VardaValar1: Ugluk emailed, Eonwe : ) He's back, but no comp of his own. Using one at work
Eonwe Valar: ah, good to hear :}
VardaValar1: He's using WoW - so we'll be seeing him!
Eonwe Valar: well, the back part :}
Eonwe Valar: ah, even better :}
VardaValar1: Been years since we got to actually play, should be fun!
VardaValar1: Any further Member news, besides Eonwe joined up? ; )
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VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Forum:
FladrifV: oh
VardaValar1: New post to the Lord of the Rings Online rp
FladrifV: member news is that im back :-)
VardaValar1: Fladrif, go ahead
VardaValar1: Yay! Always good to have the ent around!
VardaValar1: Awake for a bit?
FladrifV: i woken up
VardaValar1: Excellent : )
VardaValar1: Keep the huorns back for us so we can continue the moot?
FladrifV: ok stand ready
VardaValar1: And I hope to see more posts on the rp soon after mine. : )
VardaValar1: Links Page:
VardaValar1: Harper Collins Publishing, which publishes Tolkien's goodies, has a page up that looks like a fan site for Tolkien
VardaValar1: You might enjoy it : )
VardaValar1: http://www.tolkien.co.uk/frame.asp
VardaValar1: Oh, and they use frames, Hyarion ; )
VardaValar1: I have to tweak Hyarion now and then about that, pardon
VardaValar1: News Page:
VardaValar1: Archived two months of news, thanks to Gilraen's pulling the Activity info for us
VardaValar1: This week I hope to put her gleanings on the Activity page
VardaValar1: Gilraen, should I ask you to also check the Forum for activity same way?
VardaValar1: She can scroll back, if she's awake ; )
VardaValar1: Story Page:
VardaValar1: Barahir-(V) has a work in progress, quite active with it
VardaValar1: The Battle of the Crossing of Poros
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/ficti on/BattleCrossingPoros/BCPprologue.htm
VardaValar1: He's done the Prologue, Chapters one and two,
GilraenV: (falling asleep. it's past my bed-time, lol. silly early starts)
VardaValar1: and three is in my email
VardaValar1: Gilraen, do you think you would be able to do an activity check on the Forum? Tougher job
VardaValar1: Gil asleep again, a well : )
GilraenV: Hmm. I should be able to manage that :-)
VardaValar1: Ohh, wow! Thanks if you can : )
GilraenV: sorry, trying to do far too much at once
Xseanzee disco: Sorry - i have to do some family things.
Xseanzee disco: Namarie
VardaValar1: No problem
VardaValar1: Family first
VardaValar1: Namarie
Xseanzee disco: Aye.
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
GilraenV: Do you just want the same sort of stuff - who was last active when?
VardaValar1: right
VardaValar1: Encyclopedia Menu
VardaValar1: Updated all over so that it goes into more areas and is more easily readable
GilraenV: I'll have a go at it some time after work this week for you. But now, I have to go sleep :-)
GilraenV: Namarie, folks
VardaValar1: Mara mesta, no hurry!
VardaValar1: Mara mesta "goodbye"
GilraenV has left the room.
VardaValar1: New frames for Art, Humor
VardaValar1: The Middle-earth Vacation Spots are now easily reachable from Humor
VardaValar1: I need help on those, text mainly. The rest I can put up once that is available
VardaValar1: The main spot the Encyc needs your help though, from all of you
VardaValar1: is the list of requested articles that you can find on the Encyc
VardaValar1: Go to Home and look on the main page for the list
VardaValar1: Some of them are surprising
VardaValar1: We really should have them, but we keep eyeing the Silmarillion or "tougher" subjects
VardaValar1: An article with description is very useful for artists and writers who use our site
VardaValar1: What equipment did they carry? What colors did they prefer?
VardaValar1: Elatan has been working on the Members Page
VardaValar1: I need to know how many of you are having trouble seeing it
VardaValar1: Some can't reach it, and some can't see the parts in Javascript that show email, or the whole line including the email
VardaValar1: http://homed.inet.tele.dk/tolkien/
VardaValar1: I seem to see it fine in Netscape, but not Explorer
VardaValar1: Please everyone check it out now and let us know what happens
VardaValar1: (Fangorn says hi!)
Srekal86: works fine in FF and IE for me.
VardaValar1: Thanks, that 's good news
VardaValar1: Anyone else?
Eonwe Valar: I see it fine in IE as well.
VardaValar1: Good : )
ArPharazonV: I see it in FF
VardaValar1: So it's probably a filter problem for a few people
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar
VardaValar1: That's a big help
VardaValar1: World of WarCraft page:
VardaValar1: Lothar Players updated the 22nd
VardaValar1: Gelmir is now playing with us, very active
VardaValar1: He'll be passing some of us soon : )
VardaValar1: Any other web news? Eonwe maybe?
Eonwe Valar: Not from me ,no.
VardaValar1: Thanks
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VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Phar, looks like you're it for WoW Europe : )
ArPharazonV: ehrm... I am?
ArPharazonV: well, I don't really have much to tell
ArPharazonV: I finally finished Jail break today!
VardaValar1: Grats : )
VardaValar1: Do you see Valandil, Menelvagor?
VardaValar1: Fladrif is here, maybe he can help out?
ArPharazonV: the raid-alliance defeated Onyxia for the first time
ArPharazonV: and Majordomo... but my pc crashed before I could join with the MC-group
FladrifV: I hear my name
FladrifV: wow europe news?
ArPharazonV: they failed the fight against Ragnaros, and have decided to go Blackwing Lair for a time until they have enough fire resistance against Ragnaros
ArPharazonV: now trying to make Majordomo and Onyxia routine
FladrifV: /me looks confused and tries to wake up his slowed mind
ArPharazonV: and that's about it, I guess
VardaValar1: No problem, the Golden is sailing right along for you
FladrifV: I turned 60 a week ago
ArPharazonV: that was more than I thought, actually...
ArPharazonV: oh, right, grats!
VardaValar1: Congrats!
VardaValar1: Hit the top
FladrifV: and have now a terible being 60 problem
FladrifV: it feels so empty
VardaValar1: Tried Silithus?
VardaValar1: It seems like a great place to run a level 60
ArPharazonV: we should get you through BRD next time, and attuned to the Core :-)
FladrifV: tried brd today but party broke again after jailbreak
VardaValar1: Also, how are you doing on your skills?
ArPharazonV: too bad hunters can't sneak or prowl..
FladrifV: I have started a engineering priest and I like him more than my leatherworking main
VardaValar1: Eonwe, I am happy to say, hit 300 Blacksmithing and can do some great crafting for the group, especially if we send him materials ; )
ArPharazonV: meh, leatherworking ain't too bad... got to 300 myself this week or the previous one
VardaValar1: Good to have a second for WoWmail storage
ArPharazonV: now working on getting rep up with Argent Dawn and Timbermaw Hold for the better patterns
VardaValar1: My leatherworking is also 300, Tribal spec
ArPharazonV: me too :-)
VardaValar1: We have two for each leatherworking spec except elemental
FladrifV: im elemental spect
Valandil Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: got the pattern for the warbear woolies today!
VardaValar1: Now we need to bring you to Lothar : )
VardaValar1: And here's more from Europe! Aiya Valandil : )
VardaValar1: Where, Phar?
Valandil Valar: aiya everyone
ArPharazonV: in Timbermaw Hold, from Meilosh, when friendly
VardaValar1: Thanks. I'm friendly with them, just need to let him talk a bit then!
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: about 2 gold, I think
VardaValar1: np
VardaValar1: Valandil, did you have any news or comments?
VardaValar1: We were in Gaming, if that helps
VardaValar1: Did anyone play anything besides WoW this week? : )
FladrifV: I played a guitar
VardaValar1: Great! Me too : )
ArPharazonV: I made a jigsaw-puzzle, but that's not really playing
VardaValar1: I like folk music on guitar, you?
FladrifV: whell my play isnt good ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I took a test :}
VardaValar1: Phar, it keeps the mind going
VardaValar1: And survived, Eonwe!
FladrifV: I m in the learning stage
VardaValar1: We are always in that stage, it seems like : )
ArPharazonV: http://www.puzzleball.info/puzzleball/view.js p?page=8.groups.aegypten this one I made!
VardaValar1: I'd rather listen to Fangorn play guitar or piano
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar : )
VardaValar1: If there is no other gaming news?
VardaValar1: (Diablo players have not been showing up for meetings, but I know you are out there!)
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VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: We have two topics. Gil-galad's was first
VardaValar1: Tom Bombadil, where do we place him? What is he?
VardaValar1: For one thing, what places does Tolkien offer us?
VardaValar1: We know Tolkien said he brought him from outside the story because he needed an adventure there
VardaValar1: A kind of embodiment or spirit of the countryside, perhaps
ArPharazonV: that would make him kinda Maia
VardaValar1: What is a spirit of the countryside though?
VardaValar1: That seems most probable, Phar
Srekal86: I think he's most likely Maia.
FladrifV: I think he is the world
VardaValar1: Srekal/ Hyarion, I think so too. How did you arrive at that?
VardaValar1: Fladrif, the whole world?
VardaValar1: Should he then not have had wider boundaries?
FladrifV: only the concious part of it
Srekal86: Here's a good resource for the Bombadil discussion, http://tolkien.slimy.com/essays/Bombadil.ht ml
VardaValar1: There are many links. But what does our own group think?
Eonwe Valar: We have that one linked already in our News archives
Srekal86: well there you go, its a good link ;-)
VardaValar1: We've had this discussion a number of times
VardaValar1: Thanks, we agree, and have it
VardaValar1: We've heard that some claim he's Eru, Aule, Manwe, and a number of other interesting ideas
VardaValar1: Some say he's a spirit that came out of the thoughts between Aule and Yavanna
VardaValar1: Eonwe, do you have any idea where that would be found?
Eonwe Valar: Well, it's more an idea drawn from what we know of Bombadil.
VardaValar1: "Of Aule and Yavanna"?
VardaValar1: okies, cool. How so?
Eonwe Valar: Bombadil has set his own bounds, within which none oppose him.
VardaValar1: Are we sure he's the one who set those bounds?
Eonwe Valar: Beasts and plants alike account him "the Master"
Eonwe Valar: The Council of Elrond states he lives within bounds he himself has set.
Eonwe Valar: Pardon the chapter "The Council of Elrond."
FladrifV: can we count him then father nature?
Eonwe Valar: Well, he doesn't control the seasons, so...
VardaValar1: Yavanna might be more of that name
Eonwe Valar: Aulë envisioned the earth and its materials, Yavanna the birds and beasts.
VardaValar1: found it in Council of Elrond:
Eonwe Valar: *and plants as well.
VardaValar1: And now he is withdrawn into a little land, with bounds that he has set
VardaValar1: Aye, Yavanna and Aule together. Are we trying to make Tom more than they?
Eonwe Valar: Not I :}
VardaValar1: It's interesting that Gandalf says that Tom would not understand the need to guard the Ring,
VardaValar1: That prevents him from being any of the Valar
Eonwe Valar: I would say probably bar him from being a Maia as well.
Srekal86: I think no matter how much we debate though Tolkien is stated has saying that he was an enigma so whatever we identify him other than an enigma will most likely be incorrect.
VardaValar1: Maia can be of all types, some very small
Eonwe Valar: Melian understood the need to protect things.
VardaValar1: Enigma, true, because we don't have enough info given to us
ArPharazonV: perhaps he was like Ungoliant, originally maia but not too much involved with the hierarchy and history of Valinor...
VardaValar1: But we can say he's not a normal animal or human, not a Vala
ArPharazonV: entering Arda at a later date
ArPharazonV: well, not too late, of course... he was the first...
VardaValar1: Some say Ungoliant was created from the discord of Melkor in the song and not a Maia
ArPharazonV: in that case, he could be created from the music of Yavanna and Aule, or something...
VardaValar1: Maia were spirits who came to help the Valar of their choice
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I would link Ungoliant and Bombadil is similarity of creation/existence, but not as Maiar.
VardaValar1: Some were very great, like Eonwe, almost Valar, and others were very small
VardaValar1: Aye, possibly, Phar
VardaValar1: But can we really rule out Maia as a possibility?
Eonwe Valar: Maia would have some knowledge of their part in the Music.
Eonwe Valar: *Maiar
VardaValar1: Iarwain does have some knowledge
Eonwe Valar: Then shouldn't he percieve something inherently wrong with a ring that takes people out of the natural realm?
VardaValar1: A spirit from that music might have some too
VardaValar1: He did
VardaValar1: He said Frodo's hand was more fair without it
VardaValar1: He wanted Frodo not to wear it
VardaValar1: But he would make a poor custodian of the ring himself, is what the Council decided
Eonwe Valar: He hardly gave the Gandalfesque "Don't ever use it!" warning, though.
VardaValar1: in the book
VardaValar1: He made Frodo feel very uncomfortable about trying it
VardaValar1: Different technique, perhaps
Eonwe Valar: Perhaps.
VardaValar1: Eo
VardaValar1: Quoting Gandalf:
VardaValar1: "Such things have no hold over his mind"
VardaValar1: on not over, sorry
VardaValar1: "And if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away."
VardaValar1: As far as his power, he can't stand up to Sauron
VardaValar1: So that lets out being a Vala also
VardaValar1: Looking for the quote, pardon
Eonwe Valar: He would fall, last as he was first.
VardaValar1: "Power to defy our Enemy is not in him, unless such power is in the earth itself. And yet we see that Sauron can torture and destroy the very hills"
VardaValar1: That tells more about his being of the earth, though
Eonwe Valar: But it says he would have no power to withstand Sauron, unless such power was in the earth itself. Maiar power isn't linked to the earth.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe
VardaValar1: How about a Maia of Aule?
Eonwe Valar: there we go, you got my quote for me :}
VardaValar1: You're welcome : )
Eonwe Valar: Is Sauron's power in the earth? Or Saruman's?
Eonwe Valar: Is Eonwë's in the air?
VardaValar1: In a fashion. They craft things from the earth
VardaValar1: He's more Radagastian
ArPharazonV: here's a thought:
VardaValar1: A bit of both Yavanna and Aule, as you suggested
Eonwe Valar: Not to take this off course, but I would very carefully ask then, what of the likes of Tulkas, who seemingly had no hand in the formation of Ea?
VardaValar1: As Olorin was with more than one Vala
ArPharazonV: the Flame of Illuvatar, or whatever that thing was called, can't recall the name... it was set at the center of Arda, right?
VardaValar1: The Flame Imperishable, was of Eru
ArPharazonV: what if Tom was somehow produced by this? he would truly embody the Flame and Arda itself, and thus be of the earth
Eonwe Valar: Tulkas is not attributed with being a master of any substance in Ea.
VardaValar1: Tulkas was more of defense, the laughing warrior
VardaValar1: He came to defend the Valar, and those things of the Valar's love
VardaValar1: Defense is also a part of existence
Eonwe Valar: Aye, but if the power of the Ainur are tied to their element and not innate, then he has no power, so to speak.
VardaValar1: Interesting, Phar. I saw Tom do nothing with flame. Did he maybe light candles?
Eonwe Valar: Well, Tulkas sounds to me to be more offense that defense, but ok :}
Eonwe Valar: *than
VardaValar1: Ok, aggressive defense? ; )
ArPharazonV: not sure, Varda, but the 'being of the earth' got me thinking
VardaValar1: He didn't go looking for a fight
VardaValar1: Good, you could be on to something
ArPharazonV: what if he was produced by Arda itself, instead of before the Music
ArPharazonV: not coming from the void with the Ainur, but a creature of Arda itself
VardaValar1: That would be back to being created with Arda, as in the combined thought of Yavanna and Aule?
ArPharazonV: could be, indeed...
ArPharazonV: or, as I said, with a tad of influence from the Flame Imperishable
VardaValar1: The Flame being of Eru, would mean Eru blessed the thought of Tom with life?
VardaValar1: A la dwarves?
ArPharazonV: well, we do know he set the Flame within Arda, right?
VardaValar1: Then we could get into the Melkoric influence... ; )
VardaValar1: ok, flame. Ainulindale: "And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable,
VardaValar1: and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be; and those of you that will may go down to it."
ArPharazonV: yup, just found that quote... you beat me to it
VardaValar1: into it
VardaValar1: Then they saw a real thing, Ea, the World that Is.
VardaValar1: Inside that, they created the habitation
Eonwe Valar: Ah, good reminder. The Flame Imperishable was set inside Ea, which does not necessarily mean it was set inside Arda.
VardaValar1: "...in the midst of the vast halls of Ea there came to be that hour and that place where was made the habitation of the Children of Iluvatar.
ArPharazonV: oh, right
VardaValar1: It's very tricky
VardaValar1: World and world
VardaValar1: Melkor searched for the Flame Imperishable, but could not find it.
ArPharazonV: so... the Flame was at the Heart of the World, and 'in the midst of the vast halls of Ea' there came Arda..
VardaValar1: but that was before the making of Ea.
ArPharazonV: I would correlate those two
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar
VardaValar1: World is Ea, space, with Arda the world inside it
ArPharazonV: after all, speculation is all we have :-)
VardaValar1: We have a bit more : )
VardaValar1: Varda makes the stars. But she is bound within Ea.
VardaValar1: Also, what was quoted above
ArPharazonV: yes, I know that, but I meant I would associate the Heart of the World (or the Heart of Ea) with that which is in its centre, which would be Arda
ArPharazonV: thus, I would associate the Flame as being within Arda
VardaValar1: "...in the midst of the vast halls of Ea there came to be that hour and that place where was made the habitation of the Children of Iluvatar.
Eonwe Valar: Arda was in the center?
VardaValar1: In the midst of Ea, that is where Arda s
VardaValar1: is
ArPharazonV: well, in the midst of the vast halls of Ea, I would think that's the center
VardaValar1: It does not have to be dead center, but it is in it aye
VardaValar1: Should be in the middle somewhere
ArPharazonV: thus, close to, if not "around", the Flame Imperishable
ArPharazonV: thus I assumed that the Flame lay somewhere within Arda
VardaValar1: Pushing the thought a bit, but could try to make it fly
VardaValar1: I have some trouble with it though
ArPharazonV: as I said, Varda, it's all speculation now... we don't really have anything to contradict it, do we?
VardaValar1: Melkor pretty well took over the earth
ArPharazonV: yes, but just the surface, or the entire earth?
VardaValar1: He wanted the Flame Imperishable most of anything
FladrifV: reminds me of the similarity with loki :-)
VardaValar1: Are we going to go into the bit about the "Melkoric Influence" in the earth again? : ) Could do that
Eonwe Valar: Based on how deeply he delved for his Fortresses, I'd say if the Flame IMperishable were there, Melkor would've found it.
VardaValar1: Loki was a strange duck, but I'll try not to go into that too much
Eonwe Valar: Deep enough for the Balrog to find his way to Moria without a shovel at least.
VegetableMannn has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
FladrifV: /whisper to varda : he was also placed outside the world :-)
VardaValar1: don't have to whisper good stuff like that : )
VardaValar1: Melkor was tossed into the Void, aye
FladrifV: so was loki more or less
VardaValar1: Veggie, we're discussing Tom Bombadil and if he were from the earth's makings, would that include the Flame Imperishable?
VardaValar1: Side tangent comparing Loki and Melkor
VardaValar1: I think Loki was more fun though ; )
FladrifV: im sure of that :-)
VardaValar1: Trickster turned evil
VardaValar1: Bad kids too
VardaValar1: Hel was one of the better kids, heh
VardaValar1: Sorry, side-tracked
FladrifV: /me puts varda back on the right track
VardaValar1: Ok, Phar. If Tom had some Flame Imperishable in him, he had the same as all living beings
VardaValar1: nice track! Thanks
VardaValar1: The Flame was used to bring life
VardaValar1: So all it would mean is that Tom had life
VardaValar1: Eru would be in control of the Flame, as it is part of him
VardaValar1: So I guess we're together on it, more or less?
Eonwe Valar: Depends on who "we" are :}
ArPharazonV: hmm...
VardaValar1: oh well
VardaValar1: Back to the Flame, Melkor is "he" in this quote:
VardaValar1: "Yet he found not the Fire, for it is with Iluvatar."
VardaValar1: This is before Ea is created
VardaValar1: "He had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame;
VardaValar1: for desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own, and it seemed to him that
VardaValar1: Iluvatar took no thought for the Void, and he was impatient of its emptiness."
VardaValar1: Come to think of it, that sounds like more than life, "bring into Being things of his own"?
VardaValar1: I could be trying to read too much into something out of context
VardaValar1: Ok, so we have Tom as a possible spirit byproduct of the Song of the creation of Arda?
VardaValar1: But can we rule out that he could be a Maia?
VardaValar1: We showed he's not a Vala
Eonwe Valar: I can only speak for myself when I say I'm not convined he was a Maia.
VardaValar1: Not a human or other normal being
VardaValar1: No problem there, Eonwe : )
VardaValar1: Just can we say for sure he's not a Maia, the way we said for a Vala?
Eonwe Valar: I lean towards the conclusion he is a union of the thoughts of Aulë and Yavanna during the Ainulindallë.
VardaValar1: Are we saying that because he was not greatly concerned about the Ring, he could not be a Maia?
VardaValar1: I am not ruling that out, either, Eonwe. We have a case for it
VardaValar1: Could he also be a Maia of both Aule and Yavanna, as some others were Maiar of more than one Vala?
VardaValar1: If not, why not?
Eonwe Valar: I also think that if his power is tied to the earth itself, that causes problems with him being a Maia.
FladrifV: I think tom bombadil is on a different verse of the song of the world and therefor he is made in the world with different rules and is a completely different race
VardaValar1: Is his power tied to the earth alone?
VardaValar1: Let's try to back up our opinions with some quotes here, guys
Eonwe Valar: Both Oromë and Tulkas have no ties to parts of the earth, and are Valar, formidable in their own right.
VardaValar1: I can just say Tom is a rabbit transformed, but not use any quotes.
Eonwe Valar: Well, for my penultimate statement, the quote was given.
Eonwe Valar: Just gotta scroll :}
VegetableMannn: In the two towers at one point gandalf says Treebeard is the oldest living thing on middle earth that walks under the sun...
VardaValar1: Always handy ;-) Beats Battlenet
VegetableMannn: would he be older than tom?
VardaValar1: So Tom is not "a living thing"?
Eonwe Valar: For the info and Tulkas and Oromë, I look to the Sil, the Valaquenta.
VardaValar1: He could be from before Middle-earth, which is kind of where we are saying here
VardaValar1: Treebeard would be a being of the earth itself, but Tom may have come before the earth finished forming
Eonwe Valar: Tulkas is said not to be much for Council, but is a steadfast friend and a formidable opponent. Oromë is a hunter, and if he is less mighty than Tulkas, he is more dreadful in anger.
VardaValar1: We are wondering if he was a spirit from the forming during the Song, or a Maia from before that brought in to help the Valar
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe. We do have Valar not tied tightly into physical aspects of the earth, but more into traits.
VegetableMannn: how did he come to stay in middle earth then i wonder
VardaValar1: Goldberry : )
Eonwe Valar: Some Valar are tied into Spiritual aspects as well, such as the Feanturi.
VegetableMannn: what kind of being was she then?
VardaValar1: As Melian stayed for Thingol
VardaValar1: No no, we are still struggling with Tom ; )
Eonwe Valar: The two I name seem to be tied neither into physical or spiritual.
VardaValar1: Right, Valar did not have to be into making the physical world, but are we sure they didn't help when it says "Valar" were making the world and Melkor was wrecking their efforts?
VardaValar1: Changing a mountain into a lake, etc
Eonwe Valar: Aye, but if the power of Maiar or Valar are tied to an "element" of Ea, then these two would seem to be powerless at first glance.
VardaValar1: But just because some Valar were perhaps not into the very physical aspects, does that prevent Maia from being that way?
VardaValar1: I don't see why we have to think they were tied only into physical elements
Eonwe Valar: I didn't say that :}
VardaValar1: I know. :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm saying their skill and knowledge was in certain things, but their power was innate.
VardaValar1: Go ahead
VardaValar1: No argument.
VardaValar1: Show how it relates to Tom
Eonwe Valar: If an Ainu's power (grouping Maiar and Valar together now) is innate, and not reliant on an "element" whether it be air, water, earth, or spirit etc., then..
Eonwe Valar: it causes problems for Tom being a Maia with the strong implication in "The Council of Elrond" that his power is somehow tied to the earth.
VardaValar1: Iarwain chose the boundaries
VardaValar1: He seems more tied to staying there by Goldberry
Eonwe Valar: well, scratch out "strong" and just say "implication."
VardaValar1: Bombadil may affect the earth rather than be from the earth
VardaValar1: His interest is in the earth, as is Aule's and Yavanna's
VardaValar1: His power seems to be in song affecting his surroundings and beings in his territory
VardaValar1: and aye, somehow he has strength compared to the strength that is in the earth
VardaValar1: *slips downstairs for a plate of supper to bring back to the comp. Pray continue!*
Eonwe Valar: I think I've about said all I can say :}
ArPharazonV: sorry I was not that present during the conversation, was busy trying to reinstall a few programs... the crash from 2 days ago really messed up my pc
VardaValar1: back
VardaValar1: Guess it was just Eonwe and me
VardaValar1: So scroll away!
Eonwe Valar: wb
Eonwe Valar: bon apetit :}
VardaValar1: Fangorn is a good cook. Eating at the comp
FladrifV: nothing is better than ent draught
VardaValar1: Sort of sounds like Aule and Yavanna had a child after a fashion
top

Tolkien Movies:
VegetableMannn: have you guys seen the ralph bakshi animated version of lotr?
VardaValar1: Still not sure how you're ruling out Maia as a possibility
Eonwe Valar: That's an interesting way to look at it.
VardaValar1: Afraid so, yes
Eonwe Valar: Yes, and I didn't like it :}
ArPharazonV: a "geesteskind" probably like we would call it in Dutch ;-)
VegetableMannn: ooooh no
VegetableMannn: i loved it
VardaValar1: Ungoliant as a child of Melkor?
Eonwe Valar: "Breakfast at Isengard, Ack! Ack!" :}
VegetableMannn: well if you didnt like that one, did you like peter jacksons better?
VardaValar1: They never really finished the animated LotR. It really showed when the cartoon Fellowship were around the armies of people who were more like people
VardaValar1: yes
Eonwe Valar: If Ungoliant was spawned from the discord of Melkor during the Ainulindallë, then aye, assuming a union in thought for Bombadil would imply a similarity between the two.
VardaValar1: PJ put much more care into it
ArPharazonV: was that the one with pantless Boromir with the Viking-horns?
VardaValar1: So if we say Ungoliant is such a thoughtform, then Tom could be one too
VardaValar1: Yes : )
VegetableMannn: yeah thats the one
VardaValar1: Indian Strider
Eonwe Valar: Actually, yes, I preferred Peter Jackson's much over Ralph Bakshi's.
ArPharazonV: http://www.livejournal.com/users/monkeycr ackmary/407709.html this was a link with pictures and comments... but the pictures seem to have vanished
Srekal86: Eonwe, what about Rankin/Bass?
VardaValar1: Glorindel was wiped out again, but by Legolas instead of Arwen
VegetableMannn: yeah that always happens for some reason
VegetableMannn: too afraid to introduce a new character
VardaValar1: Glorfy had no continuing part
Eonwe Valar: Rankin/Bass is a good animated rendition.
VegetableMannn: how old?
VegetableMannn: i dont believe ive seen that
Eonwe Valar: I much enjoyed it before reading the books, and I stil enjoy it after having read them 7ish or so times (not including runs through for research)
Srekal86: it came out a few years after bakshi's
VegetableMannn: I remember seeing a Hobbit animated movie when i was younger
Eonwe Valar: I thought it was pretty cool when I found out alot of my favorite Christmas claymation stuff was by Rankin Bass as well :}
VardaValar1: So Ungoliant and Bombadil would either both be Maiar or both be from the Song.
VardaValar1: *off to get a drink*
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I could agree with that conclusion.
VegetableMannn: oh yes i know Rankin Bass now
VegetableMannn: did he only create H and ROTK?
Eonwe Valar: I have the Rankin/Bass Hobbit and RotK, the Bakshi LotR, and the standard and EE editions of Peter Jackson's LotR all on DVD.
Srekal86: Eonwe, quite impressive.
Srekal86: but no standard vhs versions of PJs? :p
VegetableMannn: I much preferred the bakshi over the bass i think
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Rankin/Bass only did Hobbit and RotK, unfortunately. I think I could've lived through their Rendition of FotR and TT.
Eonwe Valar: Don't need VHS when I have DVD "|
VardaValar1: back
Eonwe Valar: But I do have VHS of the Rankin/Bass ones from before I could afford a DVD for myself.
VegetableMannn: if bakshi had more time and money i think he coulda made a really good one
VegetableMannn: besides the characters look much better in bakshis version
VegetableMannn: i think
VardaValar1: Bakshi definitely ran out. Very unfinished looking
Orodreth V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Orodreth!
VegetableMannn: not to mention he made half of two towers and nothing more
Eonwe Valar: I disagree on that. Rankin/Bass had the better looking characters.
VegetableMannn: realy?
VegetableMannn: consider gandalf for example
VegetableMannn: much more what i picture gandalf as in bakshi's
VegetableMannn: as opposed to rankin
VegetableMannn: the hobbits too
Eonwe Valar: The characters were,.. knobbier maybe, but those Bakshobbits,.. don't get me started..
VegetableMannn: even the elves
VegetableMannn: well maybe sam.. i can understand the frustration with that character in bakshi's
VegetableMannn: but the rest were good i think
Eonwe Valar: I didn't like the voice actors much either for the Bakshi version. Some were ok, but again, don't get me started on those Bakshi-Hobbits...
VardaValar1: too late
Eonwe Valar: I liked the voices much better in the Rankin/Bass version. Very good Gandalf.
VegetableMannn: well how about jacksons? how did the movie live up to your own picture of the characters and places
VegetableMannn: I had read the books long before i saw the pj movies
VegetableMannn: so some of the things i might say disapointed me at first
Eonwe Valar: I'd say overall it was a good job except for the butchering surrounding Arwen's character. Live Tyler, while I'm not a fan, doesn't bother me too much as Arwen.
ArPharazonV: I had read the books a few years before I saw the movies, and although I had my own ideas of characters, the PJ-movie seemed a bit more 'reasonable' than my own views...
VegetableMannn: yeah it is nice to see the places made real
VegetableMannn: with all tolkiens descriptions that seem to go on endlessly it might drive a person nuts trying to visualize everything
ArPharazonV: but now whenever I think of a character, the movies always come into mind
Eonwe Valar: Not for me, fortunately.
Eonwe Valar: I still visualize the people I "knew" before the movies.
VegetableMannn: yeah i dont think i ever picture characters from the movie when i read though
VegetableMannn: aragorn must be much taller and stronger looking
ArPharazonV: I don't know anymore... I think my views were too incomplete when I first saw the movies... they're now an integral part
Eonwe Valar: I thought Viggo Mortensen made a pretty good Aragorn. Mirando Otto was a pretty good Eowyn. Cate Blanchet wasn't too bad as Galadriel.
VegetableMannn: yeah dont get me wrong mortensen played an excellent aragorn
Eonwe Valar: Denethor was represented a bit "weaker" than I see him though.
VegetableMannn: but thats not how i picture aragorn looking
ArPharazonV: my major disappointment was probably Elrond.... I had envisioned him so differently...
ArPharazonV: and Denethor indeed
VegetableMannn: i agree on elrond
ArPharazonV: I can't really picture him as the son of Earendel
VardaValar1: Faramir - what they did to his character.
Eonwe Valar: Arwen is my major gripe though. Don't get me started on her either :}
FladrifV: I had imagined elrond a lot more friendly
VegetableMannn: the actor for faramir did a good job i think
Eonwe Valar: I wasn't too happy about the changes to Faramir, but I could stomach them for some reason.
VardaValar1: I just looked at that blog, too bad it lost the pics
VegetableMannn: what about how they represented sauron?
VardaValar1: I liked the Faramir actor ok, just sad about what happened to his story
VardaValar1: Sauron - no way
Srekal86: /me has a 2' tall Sauron sitting next to him
VegetableMannn: that was one of my major probs with the movies
ArPharazonV: how about looks? the face? the actual visualization?
Valandil Valar: i have to go, work tomorrow, hope to see you all again soon
VardaValar1: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Srekal86: Namarie
VegetableMannn: see ya
Eonwe Valar: I didn't think they did Sauron too badly, except where he got his finger cut off.
Valandil Valar: suilannad
Valandil Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: take care Valandil.
VegetableMannn: the best i believe was saruman
ArPharazonV: how about Isildur? what did you think when you saw him?
VardaValar1: That was ok, the original Sauron. The Eye I took issue with
VegetableMannn: christopher lee was excellent for the part of saruman i think
VardaValar1: Aye, good Saruman : )
VegetableMannn: no isulder and elendil looked far too weak
Eonwe Valar: Saruman was good, aye. Not a fan of how they "dealt" with him (no spoilers for those without the Extended Edition, please!) but he was well portrayed.
VegetableMannn: elendil looked like an ordinary old man for crying out loud
ArPharazonV: aye, it was a good Saruman... but I would have loved to see him shrivel up when he died
ArPharazonV: instead they have him submerged under water! I mean... come on!
VegetableMannn: yeah that was bad
VardaValar1: I wanted to see him become that mist looking towards the West and being blown away
ArPharazonV: oh, sorry, spoilers
VardaValar1: Did anyone here not see the movie or extended?
Eonwe Valar: Heh, no warning for those guys skimming the meeting report now :}
VardaValar1: If they didn't see them or have several copies, why not by now? ;-)
ArPharazonV: how about Wormtongue? how you envisioned him?
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
FladrifV: I didn't see the extended
ArPharazonV: you didn't?
VegetableMannn: yeah wormtongue
VardaValar1: Poor mistreated Fladrif
ArPharazonV: you really should borrow it from me then, Flad!
VegetableMannn: i hate him in the books and i hate him in the movie
VegetableMannn: so job well done i think
VardaValar1: They really improved Faramir in the extended
Eonwe Valar: Ents could'v ebeen done better as far as their part in the War, but not too unpleased about them.
VardaValar1: Grima was so obviously the bad guy, but that was true in the books too : )
FladrifV: I was so disapointed with the extended of the 2 towers
ArPharazonV: you know I have them, and you're like half a town away from me every 2 weeks... you should really really borrow it
VardaValar1: Ents looked good. But the moot saying let's not go to war, bleah
VegetableMannn: how bout the mouth of sauron. i thought that was cool how they had that in the extended
VardaValar1: I did like how they incorporated Bombadil into Fangorn, although it bugged Fangorn-(Valar)
Eonwe Valar: That was some freaky cross between MicK Jagger and Steve Tyler.
ArPharazonV: the mouth? no, not sure... don't think I like him, compared to the books
VardaValar1: Aye, that was a wild effect on the Mouth of Sauron. Got a kick out of being grossed out by him
ArPharazonV: he seems far more cunning in the books
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar
ArPharazonV: died far too fast, that's for sure
VegetableMannn: i believe the worst part was when the witchking threw gandalf off his horse and broke his stalf
VardaValar1: How did you guys like the Hobbits?
VegetableMannn: ridiculous
Eonwe Valar: The Mouth was certainly not what I expected from the books. Again, freaky cross between Mick Jagger and Steve Tyler, two of the biggest mouths I've seen.
ArPharazonV: the Hobbits? not what I expected
VardaValar1: Breaking Gandalf's staff was insane. No excuse
ArPharazonV: of course, an 18-year old frodo was unexpected
Eonwe Valar: Agreed.
Eonwe Valar: Frodo was supposed to look quite good for his age. (and it's 33 Actually)
ArPharazonV: but when you read the description about the fat bellies and faces, the things you see in the animated versions are a lot closer to home
mordacil: did you notice the staff was whole again shortly after?
Eonwe Valar: unless you meant Elijah Wood's age, not Frodo's
VegetableMannn: yeah thats a wonder
VardaValar1: Frodo was less plump than most, more "fair" for a hobbit
Eonwe Valar: Comes from being around all the Water. Ulmo's influence :}
VegetableMannn: whats the actors name as sam gamgee did the best job as a hobbit
ArPharazonV: Bilbo was not bad, though...
ArPharazonV: Sean... something?
VardaValar1: Sean Astin
ArPharazonV: Sam, that is
ArPharazonV: right
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Sean Astin did good.
VardaValar1: Ian Holm, Bilbo
ArPharazonV: and Sean Bean was Boromir..
VardaValar1: Fallohidish
Eonwe Valar: Never would've suspected he'd be a Hobbit from his Goony Days.
VegetableMannn: hehe
ArPharazonV: I had never seen most of the actors before
VardaValar1: That could be a good thing
VegetableMannn: they def needed a better elrond
ArPharazonV: except Elijah Wood in Deep Impact, though I did not recognize him
ArPharazonV: and of course Elrond in the Matrix
Eonwe Valar: Sean Connery as Gandalf would've been interesting, but wouldn't have fit, in retrospect.
ArPharazonV: Sean Connery?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Sean Connery.
ArPharazonV: how about Sean Connery as Theoden?
VegetableMannn: gandalfs character did excellent in fotr
Eonwe Valar: No
Eonwe Valar: No offense to Connery, certainly one of my favorite actors, but he would've have fit.
ArPharazonV: meh, I always picture him in royal parts, after seeing First Knight
Eonwe Valar: Although, As Denethor might've been interesting.
FladrifV: I still like the painted edition of the lotr movie
VegetableMannn: ian mckellan? or however you spell his name.. Not so sure about his part in the two towers but i definately thought he did probably the best job in the whole film in the fellowship
FladrifV: its a shame they didn't complete that one
Eonwe Valar: He might've been able to bring the strength to Denethor I thought he was missing in the movie.
VardaValar1: Denethor was weakend a lot, aye
VardaValar1: but that was partly the writing
ArPharazonV: sure, he might have been able to bring the strength.. but the despair and weakness that was actually in the books, he would have lacked
VardaValar1: He seemed over the top to me
ArPharazonV: I can't see Sean Connery ordering the burning of himself and his son
VegetableMannn: the whole movie was over the top though
ArPharazonV: he's far too "sane", I'd say... a bit of the opposite extreme
VardaValar1: He might've made it look like strength instead
VardaValar1: Denethor more so, Barahir, to me anyway
ArPharazonV: now that's interesting... who would you cast for a Silmarillion-movie?
VegetableMannn: many many many characters
Srekal86: The Silmarillion wouldn't be something you could make a movie of, one might be able to focus on one of the stories however.
VardaValar1: And for the Hobbit. Tolkien hadn't written the LotR yet, so he might've changed it if he could have gone back
Srekal86: Like I know Akalabeth is a talked about one.
ArPharazonV: I'm talking about the main characters of the War of the Jewels... Beren and Luthien, Turin, Tuor's story...
VardaValar1: A series of movies from now on : )
ArPharazonV: who would you cast as... Maeglin, for example?
VardaValar1: A lot of actors are typecast. Give them proper makeup, clothing, good lines and setting, could be several for any part who could do a great job
ArPharazonV: true, that
Eonwe Valar: I would pick relative unknowns for any Tolkien movie, so I don't know who I'd pick :}
ArPharazonV: hehe
Eonwe Valar: In that, Peter Jacksons made a wise move.
Eonwe Valar: *Jackson
VegetableMannn: many were not unknown in jacksons though
ArPharazonV: let's see you were contractually obligated to cast.. like... Arnold Schwarzenegger?
ArPharazonV: where in Lotr would you put him?
Eonwe Valar: They were known, but they were hardly superstars.
FladrifV: the orc with the bomb!
ArPharazonV: *say
VegetableMannn: i guess most of them became "superstars" afterwards
Eonwe Valar: yeah, afterwards, and only the ones that did a good job :}
Eonwe Valar: I haven't seen Denethor on any talk shows, have you? :}
VegetableMannn: haha
VegetableMannn: cant say i have
ArPharazonV: well, Elijah was kinda famous.. come on, you've all seen Deep Impact, right?
VegetableMannn: and the matrix lol
Eonwe Valar: I've seen pieces at most.
ArPharazonV: Denethor? wasn't he from plays etc?
ArPharazonV: a stage-actor or however you would call it?
Eonwe Valar: Stage-actor sounds right.
Eonwe Valar: or Thespian.
VegetableMannn: and the character who played wormtongue was originally known for his infamous role as Chucky the doll
Eonwe Valar: the latter if you want to sounds particularly knowledgeable.
Eonwe Valar: I didn't know he was Chucky.
VegetableMannn: yep
VegetableMannn: childs play
Eonwe Valar: I know the movie series, aye.
Eonwe Valar: Not a big fan of it, but I know it.
ArPharazonV: actually
ArPharazonV: I think he was most famous as Billy from that other movie... what was it called..
Eonwe Valar: The only ones I knew before (hearing about) the LotR movies that come to mind right now are Elijah Wood and Sean Astin.
VardaValar1: Ian McKellan
VegetableMannn: from xmen
VardaValar1: He was Magneto on X-men, and a ton of movies before that
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VegetableMannn: christoper lee from count dracula
Srekal86: john rhys-davies, sliders.
ArPharazonV: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, it was called
VardaValar1: Aye,
ArPharazonV: famous movie, one of my dad's favorites
VegetableMannn: orlando bloom from black hawk down
ArPharazonV: Wormtongue played a famous part from there
VardaValar1: Gimli also on Raiders of the Lost Ark as Sollah or however it's spelled
Eonwe Valar: Bah, Aye, John-Rys Davies as well
ArPharazonV: Gimli I knew mainly from "Sliders"
VegetableMannn: and lets not forget the guy from the matrix as elrond :-)
VardaValar1: Black Hawk Down was after. He played in Wilde before, and a lot of stage plays
Eonwe Valar: Aye, him too
ArPharazonV: do you know the serie Sliders?
Eonwe Valar: But Ian MacKellan I first heard of involved with LotR. X-Men hadn't come out yet as I recall.
ArPharazonV: where they invent a device to travel through parallel dimensions, and try to find their way home
ArPharazonV: Gimli was the professor!
Eonwe Valar: I watched Sliders up until they lost Quinn roundabouts.
VardaValar1: I loved Sliders until the loss of the brothers, aye
Eonwe Valar: It started getting old when they were chasing after the guy from Maggie's World.
ArPharazonV: anyway, that's where I first saw John-Rys
Eonwe Valar: But the whole Cromag thing pretty well spelled the end of my interest.
VardaValar1: You didn't watch Raiders of the Lost Ark etc?
Eonwe Valar: (John Rys-Davies is also in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade)
ArPharazonV: ah, ok, I might have, then
ArPharazonV: but not until later, I think
VardaValar1: Gimli got used a lot for jokes in LotR, but he also got some serious spots that I liked
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that's another annoying thing from the movies.
ArPharazonV: it's the Dwarves who go swimmin'...
VardaValar1: Hey, he was drunk. We can give him that : )
Eonwe Valar: All the jokes at the expense of the Dwarf.
Eonwe Valar: No jokes at the expense of Elves or Men, and not really jokes but general shenanegans at the expense of Hobbits.
VegetableMannn: he had more dignity in the first
VardaValar1: Pippin was taken down pretty hard
VegetableMannn: pippin deserves it
ArPharazonV: actually, John Rys-Davies came up with that line himself
VardaValar1: I liked the actor's singing
VardaValar1: Yes, Phar, he did : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, the actor who played Pippin had a good voice.
ArPharazonV: hmm... I guess I always find the departure from Edoras with Gandalf, the most emotional part in the story of Merry and Pippin
FarmerMaggotV: is that him on the soundtrack?
ArPharazonV: yes, it is
VardaValar1: Yes
FarmerMaggotV: ah
ArPharazonV: they discovered his singing-voice some time earlier in a karaoke-bar ;-)
VardaValar1: The first time the pair was split up
ArPharazonV: I know, I remember too much details from the audio commentary...
ArPharazonV: *too many
VardaValar1: Trivia is fun ; )
top

Tolkien Music:
ArPharazonV: hmm... have I ever introduced you to http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/hob bits ?
Srekal86: heh ya thats a good one, I've got it sitting on my desktop right now.
Srekal86: I've got some good lotr techno songs if anyone ever wants any.
VardaValar1: we're watching your film, Eowyn and I : ) Pardon
ArPharazonV: lotr techno songs, eh?
ArPharazonV: sounds interesting, at least...
Srekal86: I need to get my shoutcast server back up so I can just stream them.
ArPharazonV: I like the lotr-music, that's for sure... if these are techno-versions of those, I'd like to hear them
Srekal86: pretty much any kind of tolkien music out there i have it, lotr rap, metal, techno, country, etc, heh
VardaValar1: If they are LotR, sure, toss us a link if you want
Srekal86: I'll post em on my server when I get a chance
VardaValar1: except maybe rap *eep*
Eonwe Valar: I recommend Blind Guardian for rock LotR songs.
ArPharazonV: indeed, my thoughts exactly... no rap!
Srekal86: ya Blidn Guardian rocks, Rhapsody is another one right up there with BG, although a little less lotr related
Srekal86: ArPharazonV, have you heard Lords of the Rhymes?
ArPharazonV: Lords of the Rhymes? nope
Eonwe Valar: Blind Guardian does alot of songs involving myths and literature.
VardaValar1: Nightwish has a couple, could be better on the words though
Eonwe Valar: Iliad, Tommyknockers,...
Srekal86: ArPharazonV, you have to at least listen to them, I hate rap but I love them.
Eonwe Valar: Athurian legends.
ArPharazonV: I'll download a few from http://www.lordsoftherhymes.com/ then
Eonwe Valar: ack!
Eonwe Valar: I can't do a darn thing as a ghost?
VardaValar1: Not much, in WoW
Eonwe Valar: Can't ride on gryphons in disguise, can't mount while shapeshifted
Eonwe Valar: this is sounded more like a trick than a treat by the second.
ArPharazonV: heh, indeed..... I had that today
Eonwe Valar: *sounding
Srekal86: here's a good lords of the rhymes one. http://irc.tolkiengateway.net:81/music/Songs/ Lord%20of%20the%20Rings/Lords%20of %20the%20Rhymes/Lords_of_the_Rhymes _-_NineFingered_Frodo.mp3
VardaValar1: You can drop being shifted. Click icon
ArPharazonV: right before flying to Thorium Point from Ironforge, somebody made me a ninja
Srekal86: afk, dinner
VardaValar1: Bon appetit!
Eonwe Valar: I've got better than that. I've got the Rankin-Bass song of Frodo of the Nine Fingers, sung by a minstrel :}
ArPharazonV: luckily, I'm a druid...
ArPharazonV: simply transformed and transformed back, and I was normal again
Eonwe Valar: Kinda like wearing my costume, but oh well, don't have time to sit around and wait for it to wear off.
Eonwe Valar: Just got enough time to check a few things on the AH and in my mail, then gotta start focusing my attention elsewhere.
ArPharazonV: I do have a young gnome rogue with a female-nightelf-mask, though
Eonwe Valar: I've also got the Dwarf's Song from The Hobbit :}
Eonwe Valar: and "Where There's a Whip, there's a Way" sung by the Mordor Marching Band :}
ArPharazonV: hehe
Eonwe Valar: "Far o'er the Misty Mountains cold"
Eonwe Valar: "To dungeons deep and caverns old"
Eonwe Valar: "We must away ere break of day"
ArPharazonV: is that the dwarven song?
VardaValar1: I have a Night-elf girl with a Gnome-girl mask
Eonwe Valar: "The seek the pale, enchanted gold."
ArPharazonV: it sounds familiar...
Eonwe Valar: Aye, it is
VardaValar1: Hobbit
ArPharazonV: the "we must away ere break of day" rung a bell :-)
Eonwe Valar: "The greatest adventure"
Eonwe Valar: "Is what lies ahead"
Eonwe Valar: "Today and tomorrow are yet to be said"
Eonwe Valar: "The chances, the changes, are all yours to make"
Eonwe Valar: "The mold of your life is in your hands to break."
mordacil has left the room.
VegetableMannn: the rotk has some good songs
VegetableMannn: the marching orcs and their whip song
VegetableMannn: i forget how it goes
ArPharazonV: but above all, I just like the music from the PJ-movies...
VardaValar1: I like the music too
Eonwe Valar: I've been thinking of using Smaug's speech to Bilbo as for my voice mail :}
ArPharazonV: they can just send chills up my spine sometimes
VardaValar1: heheh
Eonwe Valar: Don't think I'd get many messages though :}
VardaValar1: heeh
Eonwe Valar: "heheheheheehehehhoooooooohaahahahaha ahmmmmhmhmhmhmhm."
Eonwe Valar: "Revenge?! You?! HA!"
VegetableMannn: this is interesting
VegetableMannn: http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseact ion=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=7 837356&groupID=100004191&adTopicI D=12&Mytoken=B17FDF56-9466-4403- 954CE1ED3D8B59AF797467625
Eonwe Valar: I think by the time he got to his wings being a Hurricane, they would've hung up :}
Eonwe Valar: Wouldn't have waited to hear about his breath :}
ArPharazonV: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/goll um.php this is why I don't like lotr-rap....
Eonwe Valar: Btw, it is possible to download the Soundtracks for both the Hobbit game and the War of the Rings game on their sites, for those looking for some nice instrumentals.
Eonwe Valar: well, not exactly instrumentals I suppose, but they're nice.
Arwen V1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: oh, and while we're at flash-movies.... for those who haven't heard it yet... http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bad gers.php
ArPharazonV: it sticks in your head!!
Eonwe Valar: I'll pass on all these movies. They take me much too long to load.
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: bunch of badgers, not missing anything : )
FladrifV: I made it!
ArPharazonV: ?
VardaValar1: The forum.myspace one is a trivia thing kind of like what we were doing
FladrifV: I tried to log off from wow for hours but I finaly got the guts to do it ;-)
VardaValar1: Tell a LotR trivia question, the one answering gives the next
FladrifV: adicted? me no!
VardaValar1: Congrats Fladrif : )
VardaValar1: To force you off, have a lot of other users living in the same house who can only use that comp
VardaValar1: All WoW addicts!
FladrifV: /me looks around I have 6 other pcs for that
VardaValar1: They all can do WoW?
FladrifV: on 320x200 ? certainly
VardaValar1: lol
FladrifV: 128 mb ram is more than enough for wow
VardaValar1: and a video card
FladrifV: voodoo2 banchee :D
VegetableMannn: zack morris appears to be leading the trivia on that myspace forum
ArPharazonV: hmm.... I just need 3 things to be able to play with all 8 characters at once... that would be a great team
FladrifV: oh sorry for the not so nerdy ones for the interuption
ArPharazonV: -7 other pcs
ArPharazonV: - 7 other accounts where I can transfer characters too
ArPharazonV: - highly advanced multitasking abilities!
FladrifV: -7 other jobs
FladrifV: - 68 hours a day
ArPharazonV: meh, once I can multitask, that won't be a problem:-D
VardaValar1: Details
FladrifV: just use you munchkinn pneumatic chestpiece
ArPharazonV: would it not be useful if I could split myself into 8 parts? each mentally linked to all the others?
ArPharazonV: I could send 4 of me to sleep, and use the other 4 to watch tv, read lotr, play wow, and do my homework...
VardaValar1: No, they'd all want to play WoW
FladrifV: LOL
ArPharazonV: true, that
VardaValar1: MSI FX 5700 on our WoW comp
FladrifV: and all want to watch tv at same time
aranfinwe: you're forgetting about who needs to work for feeding all 8 :-)
VardaValar1: The problem is that they are all still you
VardaValar1: Finwe! Send them all to work and they can afford WoW!
aranfinwe: hehe
Eonwe Valar: You'd have to vie with yourself for who was the real you. Wouldn't be pretty. Because, after all, the real you gets to tell the rest what they can do and when.. :}
ArPharazonV: let's see... 3 to sleep, 3 to work, one for the homework, one for wow.... no, I'd need more than 8
ArPharazonV: that's the beauty of a mental link, Eonwe
FladrifV: you only need a multiplexer for your brain
ArPharazonV: it's more than just knowing all the others think... it's actually all thinking the same, the same master-plan in mind
VardaValar1: One wants to play Alliance and the other Horde
ArPharazonV: what one experiences, the others see as well
ArPharazonV: like a flawless machine, working together
aranfinwe: that would make surgery.... interesting
Eonwe Valar: So then the one of you that's working would be tiring out the you playing WoW, and you'd all end up with keyboard face, even at the refrigerator. Still not pretty :}
ArPharazonV: imagine the time saved when going on classraids!
ArPharazonV: that's why I constantly send half of me to sleep, Eonwe :-)
VardaValar1: You do horror movie scripts, Finwe? : )
FladrifV: uhm who is master in a p2p network?
aranfinwe: hehe
Eonwe Valar: But if half of you is having fun and laguhing it up, the otehr half is going to have a hard time staying asleep :}
FladrifV: and who sends them to sleep?
FladrifV: and what is the master is sleeping?
ArPharazonV: there is no master
ArPharazonV: we are all equal
Eonwe Valar: then you can't send you anywhere :}
ArPharazonV: 1 mind, 8 bodies
FladrifV: then noone can send another to sleep
aranfinwe: nah, it would be like dreaming :-)
VegetableMannn: gotta run, bye everyone
FladrifV: bye
VardaValar1: Mara mesta!
Eonwe Valar: You'd have to hope at least half of you at any given time has the common sense to do what you need to be doing :}
VegetableMannn has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: take care :}
aranfinwe: come to think of it, about the surgery thing....
Orodreth V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I think it would freak my parents out, though...
aranfinwe: it would prolly be like getting a local
FladrifV: emotional splitup is also not welcome
VardaValar1: We are in After-meeting, by the way : )
Orodreth V has entered the room.
Orodreth V: er
VardaValar1: Aiyata, Orodreth
Orodreth V: there
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Orodreth V: anyone up for ET?
aranfinwe: aiya
FladrifV: the movie?
ArPharazonV: ET? the alien? or Errant Story?
aranfinwe: or maybe like having an arm falling asleep
Orodreth V: Enemy Territory.
aranfinwe: rofl
Orodreth V: :-P
aranfinwe: errant story won't be till tomorrow :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, wait
ArPharazonV: that's ES
aranfinwe: updates MWF, remember :-)
ArPharazonV: right, like OotS
aranfinwe: yep
FladrifV: /me is heading back to the forrest
top

After-meeting: Comics, etc
Orodreth V: Gonna be a sniper today, I think.
Orodreth V: That or just spam arty. :-P
ArPharazonV: have you read Exploitation Now, Finwe?
VardaValar1: Starlight shines off the upper leaves of the forest, breaking into small beams reaching to the forest floor.
aranfinwe: yeppers
aranfinwe: tho, the current one that I've been somewhat addicted to is Sluggy
ArPharazonV: with all that talk about those fairies showing up in ES, I decided to read EN too, once..
aranfinwe: rofl
ArPharazonV: it got pretty interesting, you could simply see the story improve over time
VardaValar1: Want to toss in an URL for those reading the transcript?
aranfinwe: heh
aranfinwe: errant story and exploitation now are NOT kid friendly
ArPharazonV: I don't know if he just decided to give it a more serious tone all of a sudden, or if his skills actually improved... but if the latter, one can tell from one comic that he has gone a looong way
VardaValar1: Consider the URL pre-warned
aranfinwe: yep
ArPharazonV: http://www.errantstory.com/
ArPharazonV: http://exploitationnow.com/
ArPharazonV: same writer
aranfinwe: several adult themes, so be warned
ArPharazonV: and pretty strong language, from time to time
aranfinwe: http://sluggy.com is pretty safe for the most part
FladrifV: /me walks underneath the trees and feels the happyness flowing thourgh his body and settles to rest next to a tall tree
FladrifV: sleep well younge one's
ArPharazonV: goodnight, Flad... btw, what about kazaalite? did you find it yet?
aranfinwe: namarie, Fladrif
ArPharazonV: oh, Finwe, from another link at Errant Story, I found something called Krakow Studios...
VardaValar1: limewire
FladrifV: /me searches slowly through his administration
aranfinwe: yes
Eonwe Valar: take care
aranfinwe: that one's amusing as well
ArPharazonV: sure is
aranfinwe: tho, it has been awhile since I read it
ArPharazonV: as I said, I found it just a few weeks ago.. and immediately dug through the entire archive ;-)
aranfinwe: in a similar vein (at least in part): http://www.galactanet.com/comic/
aranfinwe: which, in the weird way that linkages work, gets followed by http://www.project-apollo.net/mos/
aranfinwe: I have a webcomic list on my comp that's prolly 30-40 comics (and that's just the stuff I visit regularly and have caught up on :-))
FladrifV: it seems that I have to stay awake for another 2.1 mb
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: well, I gotta go soon, it's already getting late here...
ArPharazonV: so I'll save now
aranfinwe: heh, same here
aranfinwe: time for me to head home
aranfinwe: namarie all
ArPharazonV: time for me to head to bed :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
aranfinwe: hehe :-)
aranfinwe has left the room.
VardaValar1: bye
ArPharazonV: saved
VardaValar1: Thank you : )
ArPharazonV: sent!
VardaValar1: yay!
FladrifV: ok I can go to sleep now transfer is done
FladrifV: namarie all
VardaValar1: Great!
VardaValar1: Good night : )
ArPharazonV: namarie!
FladrifV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Finishing up webwork for last meeting. Usually done Sunday or Monday, got behind
VardaValar1: We had 20 people here last time
VardaValar1: With the coming and going, it can be hard to tell
ArPharazonV: well, good luck with that then, I suppose
ArPharazonV: btw, I took up that idea of taking screenshots from books
ArPharazonV: and proposed it on our highguard-forum
VardaValar1: cool
VardaValar1: How'd they like that?
ArPharazonV: they thought it was a great idea
ArPharazonV: one of them offered me webspace, I would send the screenshots, she would put them on the web, and I could place them on the forum in a thread from there
Eonwe Valar: Remember: when it becomes a craze across the net, it started here :}
ArPharazonV: I already shot the entire Ironforge Library, and have begon with processing the images to cut out just the books etc
ArPharazonV: as I come across more books, I will screenshot them as well
VardaValar1: Phar, we could ask Arathorn to put them up on this site too
VardaValar1: Can you make them jpg's first?
ArPharazonV: jpg's? should work, aye, I have been told it can be done with paint shop pro
VardaValar1: aye
VardaValar1: Adobe photoshop and others
VardaValar1: It is much smaller
VardaValar1: Regular screenshots are a space nightmare
FarmerMaggotV: wait
FarmerMaggotV: are you resizing these images?
VardaValar1: Waiting : )
FarmerMaggotV: as well as converting to jpg
FarmerMaggotV: ?
VardaValar1: We do use thumbnails on Arathorn's site
ArPharazonV: I'll send you one in paint shop pro-form, Farmer, hang on
FarmerMaggotV: I have a program that resizes and converts to jpg that I wrote
FarmerMaggotV: http://sirg3.homeip.net/files/Resizer%201.2.z ip
FarmerMaggotV: .pspimage? wassat?
FarmerMaggotV: oh, paint shop pro...
ArPharazonV: the paint shop pro format
FarmerMaggotV: that proprietary?
ArPharazonV: ...I'm not familiar with the definition of the english word proprietary
VardaValar1: They own it and all rights, will sue your leggings and chainmail off if you use it
FarmerMaggotV: heh, close =)
FarmerMaggotV: it's the opposite of open too, nothing else uses it
ArPharazonV: ...so what do you mean by it in this context?
FarmerMaggotV: never mind, it is
ArPharazonV: the example I have sent you is the first page of a book, which plays a part in an early Dun Morogh-quest
FarmerMaggotV: are all your images in that format?
ArPharazonV: so far, those I have processed are
ArPharazonV: but those are not all too many yet
Eonwe Valar: you could use either definition in this case and it would make sense, Phar. WIll they sure your leggings and chainmail off? probably. Does anything else use it? probably not.
Eonwe Valar: sure = sue
ArPharazonV: you mean they would sue those who would use the format in their program?
FarmerMaggotV: well, my resizer will resize / convert to jpg all of the standard formats (read: anything QuickTime will open)
FarmerMaggotV: it's been done Phar
FarmerMaggotV: not by them, but other companies
Eonwe Valar: An example would be like the format .scm or scx, used by Blizzard for Starcraft/ Broodwar maps.
ArPharazonV: so... can your resizer convert from this one too?
Eonwe Valar: Nothing else uses at format.
Eonwe Valar: at = that
FarmerMaggotV: not from this one Phar, it's proprietary
ArPharazonV: ah, allright
ArPharazonV: I'll try to convert it to jpg then
ArPharazonV: oh, btw, what do you think of this wow-set? http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?wit em=16897
ArPharazonV: I have a hard time picturing my druid in it...
ArPharazonV: http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image =stormragefront7qe.jpg
VardaValar1: I've seen the antlers on some folk, look pretty cool
Eonwe Valar: maybe it looks better on a guy
VardaValar1: No, it was a diff set of antlers I think
VardaValar1: More like deer than those. Those look like moose
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?wit em=16834 second picture?
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Welcome to Way-After-Meeting : )
ArPharazonV: you're late ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: hehe, thanks :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: sorry for being this late :-)
VardaValar1: Can't tell if you look terrible
Menelvagor Valar: got home at around 1 and wanted to see a movie before getting here :-)
ArPharazonV: are those the antlers you saw, Varda?
VardaValar1: Good movie?
Menelvagor Valar: Fifth Element
VardaValar1: White-haired elf, aye
VardaValar1: That is a good movie!
Eonwe Valar: Fifth Element is a pretty good movie.
Menelvagor Valar: aye.
ArPharazonV: oh, right, we saw a piece of that in France...
VardaValar1: We bought the DVD for that
ArPharazonV: gah, with French voices
Menelvagor Valar: there are few Bruce Willis movies that are not good.
VardaValar1: I like most of his movies too : )
VardaValar1: She was good in Fifth Element
ArPharazonV: anyway, that is indeed Cenarion, Varda... Stormrage was the Moose
Eonwe Valar: Been meaning to get the DVD, heh
VardaValar1: She (not Bruce)
Menelvagor Valar: unfortunately, I borrowed it on VHS, so I had to watch it downstairs, and to make sure I had the tv for myself, I had to watch it when everyone else is asleep
Eonwe Valar: Which "She" would that be, Varda?
Menelvagor Valar: the girl who plays Leeloo.
VardaValar1: Fifth Element redhead
Eonwe Valar: Milla Jovovich?
Eonwe Valar: (sp)
VardaValar1: I really should check the credits : )
Menelvagor Valar: Mila, almost :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Menelvagor Valar: correction, you were correct, I misread :-)
Eonwe Valar: I know because I thought she was good in that movie too :} Also in the 2 Resident Evil Movies :}
VardaValar1: Didn't see those. Now maybe I will : )
Menelvagor Valar: aha!
Eonwe Valar: They're Zombie movies, beware :}
VardaValar1: Then Bilbo can find them for me
Menelvagor Valar: Resident Evil 1 is very good to say the least :-)
VardaValar1: I'm sure he's seen them
ArPharazonV: anyway, gotta go
ArPharazonV: it's late
VardaValar1: Sleep well : )
Menelvagor Valar: it's autumn break!
VardaValar1: Woot!
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
ArPharazonV: tomorrow, I'm unmasking Onyxia!
VardaValar1: Oktoberfest started already this last week
Menelvagor Valar: good luck!
VardaValar1: Good luck Phar!
ArPharazonV: thanks
VardaValar1: Mask under the mask under the mask
Menelvagor Valar: Also going into BWL this week.
ArPharazonV: after that it's onward to Winterspring, for the second-last Onyxia pre-quest
VardaValar1: Rather not take the mask off the Leper King in Kingdom of Heaven tho
Menelvagor Valar: and prolly going to down one of the big guys as well in MC
Menelvagor Valar: what's the name again...?
ArPharazonV: Majordomo?
Menelvagor Valar: that one.
Eonwe Valar: I noticed something very interesting the other day.
Menelvagor Valar: unless they downed him yesterday already :-)
Menelvagor Valar: which is?
Eonwe Valar: The Quest to kill Araj or whatever his name is in Andorhal was reflagged from elite to raid.
Menelvagor Valar: heh
Menelvagor Valar: that's the way he usually gets killed anyways
Menelvagor Valar: raid of about 10+ people, and disband to get the item from him after he dies :P
Eonwe Valar: Guess it's a good time to drag in all our level 50+s to the Plaguelands.
Menelvagor Valar: guess its not necessary anymore :-)
Eonwe Valar: hmm didn't think that would work, Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: it would Eonwe.
Menelvagor Valar: I finished it that way.
Orodreth V: ET just crashed. x.x
Eonwe Valar: Well, if that's how he has to be killed, might as well flag him for it.
VardaValar1: ouch
ArPharazonV: yes, so did I
Menelvagor Valar: not how he has to be killed, but it's near impossible otherwise.
ArPharazonV: we had a fun little raid, with some from the guild
Eonwe Valar: I had a chance to because I just happened to be around when he went down, but didn't grab the item quick enough.
Orodreth V: And my satchel spam was so fun, too..
VardaValar1: Can you tell any difference in Valar guys?
Orodreth V: Going back
Menelvagor Valar: I do think you have to be in the "group" that flags him to loot the item or something.
Orodreth V: /me poofs
Menelvagor Valar: tags, or whatever it's called :P
ArPharazonV: Namarie all! don't forget to save this too!
VardaValar1: tag
VardaValar1: I am : )
ArPharazonV: tag, aye
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie, Phar!
VardaValar1: Rest easy
ArPharazonV: thanks
Eonwe Valar: take care
VardaValar1: I grabbed yours already and am working on it
ArPharazonV: no splitting up and playing WoW all night today :-)
VardaValar1: quilting this in later
VardaValar1: awww, Phar!
ArPharazonV: I have yet to gain that ability
ArPharazonV: but I'm sure I will! Some day! In my dreams!
VardaValar1: We just won't split up, but we might go WoWing : )
ArPharazonV: yeah, well, approaching 4 am here now
VardaValar1: Daylight savings time next meeting!
VardaValar1: Warning
VardaValar1: it drops in EST
ArPharazonV: right, not sure what happens here...
Menelvagor Valar: oh, Varda, I took a look at that page you mentioned in the email, and it seems pretty amazing.
ArPharazonV: but I'll switch AIM on an hour early just in case
VardaValar1: Forgive me, but which page?
ArPharazonV: g'night
ArPharazonV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Check your time thing on your comp if it helps
VardaValar1: I did about 5 emails just today, and get lost
Menelvagor Valar: http://laine.syste.ms/Plus/Lotr/milk_legolas.j pg
VardaValar1: oh right : )
VardaValar1: Laine is quite an artist if you checked that
VardaValar1: Tutorials too
VardaValar1: They look almost like black and white photos
VardaValar1: Also, was the frame thing for the Humor page from the Encyc ok?
VardaValar1: I can change it up however you need
Menelvagor Valar: ah, didn't have time to check that yet.
VardaValar1: no worries
VardaValar1: Is now good? : )
VardaValar1: Just to look. Might have more comments later
Menelvagor Valar: I wouldn't exactly describe it as good...
VardaValar1: ah hah
Menelvagor Valar: it looks awesome!
VardaValar1: *whew*
Eonwe Valar: Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein is on :}
VardaValar1: Thought I fouled up big time for a sec
VardaValar1: oh good, Eonwe : )
VardaValar1: Guess the Wolfman was my favorite of the old monsters
Eonwe Valar: Same :}
VardaValar1: Lon Chaney even did some work with the comic guys, acting straight
VardaValar1: Glad you were pleased, Menel : )
VardaValar1: It's Hyarion's fault (Srekal) - got me to looking from the user side. Always looking from the maker's end
VardaValar1: So now we need some text or other for the Middle-earth Vacation spots. Two are up now
VardaValar1: Reach them by clicking the pics
Menelvagor Valar: Varda, maybe it would be a good idea to link directly to the LotR part of her site?
Menelvagor Valar: and add the Legolas Milk one directly, of course
VardaValar1: fooey. Thought I dropped the extra Humor link
VardaValar1: Thought one of us should ask her about use
VardaValar1: Since it's your Humor site, you could ask. Or as general Encyc editor I could ask
Menelvagor Valar: oh, I already asked her for permission to link to Legolas Milk directly, might as well drop a line to ask to link directly to her LotR department
Menelvagor Valar: and as well notify her of some broken links therein.
VardaValar1: Great! Did she answer?
VardaValar1: : )
Menelvagor Valar: not yet
VardaValar1: okies
VardaValar1: I found some people had linked to our Got Milk pics and are now linked wrong
Menelvagor Valar: sent mail a couple days ago, and as she says in her FAQ, she barely has time to answer, so I'm expecting it to take a little while.
VardaValar1: np - long as we give it a shot : )
VardaValar1: She does tell on the FAQ about linking to her stuff
Menelvagor Valar: of course :-)
Menelvagor Valar: yes, but I prefer getting her permission before linking :-)
VardaValar1: I agree
VardaValar1: It helps - shows how she wants the credit and so on
Menelvagor Valar: we are on the same wavelength it seems :-)
VardaValar1: We are Valar Guild : )
Menelvagor Valar: http://laine.syste.ms/Plus/Lotr/lardposter.jpg
Menelvagor Valar: I like this one particularly *grin*
VardaValar1: oh no - I don't even have to look : )
FarmerMaggotV: wooot
FarmerMaggotV: http://franklinhistory.org -- got the new site live =)
VardaValar1: Poor Frodo
VardaValar1: Franklin looks good. But why is the Home link to the right of the main menu?
FarmerMaggotV: click say, news
FarmerMaggotV: and it'll become apparent
VardaValar1: I see
FarmerMaggotV: but I have to go, namarie all!
VardaValar1: Home -> About
Eonwe Valar: take care
VardaValar1: Namarie!
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
VardaValar1: I started trying something similar to that on some of the Encyc article pages
VardaValar1: Seemed less clunky than my previous way, still clunky
VardaValar1: Should probably go to buttons in the distant future
Menelvagor Valar: not to be crashing a party here, but errr... is it supposed to crash in IE?
VardaValar1: What crashed?
Menelvagor Valar: ack
VardaValar1: Nothing is supposed to be crashing in IE : )
Menelvagor Valar: he left already
VardaValar1: He may see the transcript
Menelvagor Valar: farmer's franklin site.
VardaValar1: It's ok in my Netscape
VardaValar1: Anyone tried it in other browsers? Firefox?
Menelvagor Valar: oh, I tested it a bit for him in IE before
Menelvagor Valar: worked pretty good, but it crashes now.
Menelvagor Valar: anyways, I should be heading to bed as well..
VardaValar1: Eowyn's looking at it too
Menelvagor Valar: got a couple important things to take care off tomorrow.
VardaValar1: She does websites too
VardaValar1: My IE is staying up for it
VardaValar1: Namarie, Menel!
Menelvagor Valar: I need to try to fix my mom's comp before it's time for my date 8-)
VardaValar1: heheh
VardaValar1: Go star man!
Menelvagor Valar: of course!
Menelvagor Valar: we're gonna go to Brothers Grimm movie :-)
VardaValar1: We saw that
VardaValar1: Have fun : )
Menelvagor Valar: is it good?
VardaValar1: Eowyn says don't do it : )
Menelvagor Valar: I tried to start dating Eowyn once... didn't work due to distance or something, so I'm not entirely trusting there ;-)
VardaValar1: heheh
VardaValar1: Wrong continent
Menelvagor Valar: about the same thing she said...
VardaValar1: Must be related...
Menelvagor Valar: but nevertheless, turning someone down because of a minor inconvenience like that is not entirely my thing you know ;-)
VardaValar1: If you say so : )
Menelvagor Valar: :-P
VardaValar1: She's laughing
Menelvagor Valar: of course she is... *sniff*
VardaValar1: She thought you were funny, no worries
VardaValar1: She wants to save you from the movie is all : )
Menelvagor Valar: I know :-P
VardaValar1: Have a good time! : )
Menelvagor Valar: well, thanks for the advice, but I'd like to form my own opinion anyways.
VardaValar1: You should
Menelvagor Valar: and before you go asking why did I ask, it's standard, don't know why that is though.
VardaValar1: It's kind of the story behind the Brothers Grimm, but made up
Menelvagor Valar: sounds cool enough :-)
VardaValar1: Takes a little bit to get into, seems disconnected at first, but then you see
Eonwe Valar: You mean it's not not derived from historical documentation?! :}
VardaValar1: lol
Menelvagor Valar: like King Arthur was derived from historical documentation?
VardaValar1: Depends on if you like the Galaxy Quest historical documents
VardaValar1: Fun recognizing the tales go by
Eonwe Valar: Sure, best history I've seen :} (j/k)
Menelvagor Valar: I'd prefer The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy :-D
VardaValar1: Fun history anyway
VardaValar1: We saw that too : )
Menelvagor Valar: especially the "improbability drive" :-)
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: Leave while you can, Menel
Eonwe Valar: A ship this big! *shows index finger and thumb close together*
VardaValar1: Before you turn into a sofa
VardaValar1: heheh
Eonwe Valar: Take care Menel :}
Menelvagor Valar: oh, it's autumn break, no sofa'ing yet
Eonwe Valar: HAve fun on your date :}
Menelvagor Valar: besides, I'm not quite drunk today :-)
Menelvagor Valar: was yesterday though :-P
VardaValar1: The sofa is a Hitchhiker's improbablity drive joke
Eonwe Valar: I give this speech to everyone, so here's yours, Menel :}
Eonwe Valar: Remember to be a perfect gentleman :}
Menelvagor Valar: ooooh
Menelvagor Valar: I always am, Eonwe :-)
Menelvagor Valar: even when I do not need to.
Eonwe Valar: I'd say don't do anything I wouldn't do, but that's an aweful long list :}
VardaValar1: You always need to : )
Menelvagor Valar: I only burp when requested to by the entire audience, and then only in the most respectable way possible :-P
VardaValar1: heheh
Menelvagor Valar: anyways.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie
VardaValar1: Fly!
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
Menelvagor Valar: and Namarie to the family as well! (and special bye's to Eowyn and Dracxyl (sp?))
Eonwe Valar: Dracxil :}
Eonwe Valar: but close :}
Menelvagor Valar: knew there was something wrong in there :-)
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: She says goodbye goodbye goodbye (It was fast)
Menelvagor Valar: (at which point Dracx storms in and corrects the error back, which would make for nice payback :-P)
Menelvagor Valar: wouldn't that sound more like g'bye g'bye g'bye?
VardaValar1: Not when she says it
VardaValar1: She puts in all the letters
Menelvagor Valar: is it with a southern accent or in perfect (american) english?
Eonwe Valar: ooh southern accent I hope :}
VardaValar1: Very little accent
Eonwe Valar: well, Texan accent :}
VardaValar1: Too fast for proper accent : )
Menelvagor Valar: btw, did you know that americans actually have better pronunciation than british people?
Eonwe Valar: lol!
Eonwe Valar: that's kind of funny :}
Menelvagor Valar: oh it is!
Menelvagor Valar: I asked my pronunciation teacher one thing in our first class, and he said it was so.
Menelvagor Valar: I asked: "So, we're being taught to be lazy, aren't we?"
VardaValar1: That is hard to believe
Menelvagor Valar: they pronounce (uh) instead of most vowels, and they hardly ever say the "r"
VardaValar1: Eowyn just showed me her latest webpage, done with CSS
VardaValar1: I have to learn it!
VardaValar1: And British hold their upper lips tighter : )
VardaValar1: Changes pronunciation
Menelvagor Valar: ask her to write up a quick "CSS for dummies" guide, so I cal learn as well :-)
Menelvagor Valar: can*
VardaValar1: That sound was something like "aghhhhhhh!
VardaValar1: Don't think it will happen any time soon : )
Eonwe Valar: I was sort of given a basic outline in CSS by Arathorn, only inasmuch as I have plans for it though.
VardaValar1: She also has nested tables
Menelvagor Valar: I guess that meant something like "Well, if you wouldn't mind too much, I'd preferrably rather not do it."
VardaValar1: Right
Menelvagor Valar: cleanly translated anyways :-)
Eonwe Valar: So Menel can speak Aghish. good :}
Menelvagor Valar: quite, yes.
VardaValar1: She says it means she's already overloaded, but you can look up tutorials on the interenet
Menelvagor Valar: I'll have to find those first
VardaValar1: Aghish, very funny!
Menelvagor Valar: and I'm a disaster with finding things on the web.
Eonwe Valar: Arathorn might know some places to check if you have trouble finding them on your own.
VardaValar1: Google something like CSS tutorials
Eonwe Valar: I say might because I'm not sure :}
VardaValar1: That will get you there
VardaValar1: But not right now!
VardaValar1: Go! Go!
VardaValar1: As I am being reminded, that gives you the older or more popular sites. Be warned
Menelvagor Valar: hmmm...
Menelvagor Valar: I've got this really funny english grammar lesson...
Menelvagor Valar: and I'm not entirely sure whether or not I should provide you with the link...
Menelvagor Valar: it contains a bit of somewhat explicit words...
VardaValar1: So it needs a PG13 or higher warning?
Menelvagor Valar: nah, not really..
Menelvagor Valar: but I'd not show it to youngsters in their teens who are trying to rebel.
VardaValar1: most of our group?
Menelvagor Valar: so, PG 23 or some such would be more like it.
VardaValar1: Oh good! Bilbo came in just under the wire
VardaValar1: He turned 23 last month
Eonwe Valar: Heh, seems the very idea of tennage rebellion negates the idea of rebellion, as they all do it :}
Eonwe Valar: *teenage
VardaValar1: Makes them just like their grandparents?
Eonwe Valar: If rebellion is the norm, is it really rebellion?
VardaValar1: Yes, as it's rebelling against parental generation to escape the nest
Eonwe Valar: Or would it be more rebellious to be normal?
VardaValar1: Why they can't just get a job and leave peacefully, I'm not sure
VardaValar1: Guess they want pushed out
Eonwe Valar: "We at the FBI do not have a sense of humor we are aware of." -Agent K
VardaValar1: heheh
VardaValar1: His delivery of that line in MIB was terrific : )
Eonwe Valar: There's alot of things that won't kill me that I won't do anyway, like playing Everquest :}
Menelvagor Valar: anyways, really really bedtime now
Eonwe Valar: Try as Aulë might, he never got me into that :}
Menelvagor Valar: catch you next week!
Eonwe Valar: Take care Menel :}
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: But we got you into WoW...
VardaValar1: Now if we could just drag Aule in!
Eonwe Valar: I got me into WoW :}
VardaValar1: That's the best way : )
VardaValar1: Here's Laine's site for LotR
VardaValar1: http://laine.syste.ms/Plus/Lotr/lotr.html
Eonwe Valar: The fact it was based on a world and lore I had some interest in was what got me interested in playing it.
VardaValar1: Slightly less bad than Menel's offering
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: And it's a Blizzard game!
Eonwe Valar: hmm, some of this stuff is,... not sure my thought's can be expressed well over text, but here we go: ooookaaaaayy.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that is was a Blizzard game also helped.
VardaValar1: hmm, this used to have a really good art tutorial
VardaValar1: Trying to find it
Eonwe Valar: Ahah! thought so. I've seen this site before.
VardaValar1: It was the worthwhile part of the site
Eonwe Valar: His/Her art isn't too bad.
Eonwe Valar: What I've looked through.
VardaValar1: Maybe not the site I was thinking of
VardaValar1: Had some brilliant work, B&W
VardaValar1: Looked almost like photos of Merry and Pippin, in a tutorial
VardaValar1: guess this isn't it
VardaValar1: sorry
Eonwe Valar: np
Eonwe Valar: still some good art.
Eonwe Valar: Might be something for the anime fans in the guild.
VardaValar1: We have the link anyway I think
VardaValar1: I was looking for an artist to help a friend with a tee-shirt
VardaValar1: He said no anime
VardaValar1: Almost every artist I bumped into for the next couple years did anime : )
VardaValar1: It's his fault
VardaValar1: Finally found Vinicius and hooked them up
VardaValar1: Dwalin-(TV)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Aye, anime style art is easier to do and make something look nice.
Eonwe Valar: Good real-life art is harder to find imo.
VardaValar1: I did find people doing LotR art, but it was all photos that they were copying
VardaValar1: The anime people were doing original movement at least
Eonwe Valar: But Mina Rho has at least two good pics, one of Aragorn, and one of Eowyn.
VardaValar1: I found it easier to do pics form real life than my head
Eonwe Valar: The Eowyn one is the best I've seen of her.
VardaValar1: link?
Eonwe Valar: hmm, don't have one unfortunately
VardaValar1: okies
VardaValar1: Rolozo Tolkien site is great for getting lost in
VardaValar1: Some pics wonderful, some really junk : )
VardaValar1: The site is huge
Eonwe Valar: I've seen some horrible pictures in my searches. Very bad design.
VardaValar1: http://fan.theonering.net/rolozo/
VardaValar1: Too true
Eonwe Valar: faces or bodies too angular, stuff like that.
VardaValar1: Proportions are a real problem
VardaValar1: I found a very few of Varda that I've liked
VardaValar1: Getting permission is a nightmare
VardaValar1: The emails go old so fast
Eonwe Valar: I found only one that was decent, and none that just jump out at me.
Eonwe Valar: Most of the Valar are hard to find good pics of
VardaValar1: http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/j anssen/gundadgoblin03.jpg
VardaValar1: fun goblin pic : )
VardaValar1: from Rolozo
Eonwe Valar: Ulmo and Melkor are the easiest to find good pic of.
Eonwe Valar: hmm, ugly, but not horrible.
Eonwe Valar: Feline in appearance.
VardaValar1: http://img-fan.theonering.net/rolozo/images/k ukhtenkova/Varda.jpg
Eonwe Valar: the facial features anyway.
VardaValar1: kind of interesting
VardaValar1: They are in lots of stories where they mix with people of Arda
VardaValar1: Umo and Melkor
VardaValar1: More reason to draw them
Eonwe Valar: aye
Eonwe Valar: I found one of Tulkas once. Wasn't too bad.
VardaValar1: I'd expect more on Osse
Eonwe Valar: Varda pic: ok, but not really great.
VardaValar1: I agree
VardaValar1: You'd think artists would want to try to show the most beautiful woman, with at least a nifty star backdrop
Eonwe Valar: aye
Eonwe Valar: I guess they need to find the most beautiful woman as a model first :}
VardaValar1: guess so : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe should have cool pics too
Eonwe Valar: Haven't even found a bad Eonwë pic.
VardaValar1: I keep coming up with references to our site : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
El Capitan Chobo has entered the room.
El Capitan Chobo: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Hello
El Capitan Chobo: just a tad bit late aint i?
Eonwe Valar: Just a bit :} Afraid I don't recognize the name.
El Capitan Chobo: its Caranthir
Eonwe Valar: ah
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: A tad : )
El Capitan Chobo: just came on aim for a sec and saw Varda was on so i guess people were still here
VardaValar1: 6 hours late : )
El Capitan Chobo: guessed*
Eonwe Valar: yep, people still here :}
VardaValar1: They are : )
El Capitan Chobo: Well night school does that hehe
VardaValar1: Catching up after the hurricane?
El Capitan Chobo: yes
VardaValar1: Think they'll normalize the schedule eventually?
El Capitan Chobo: yes when school opens again
VardaValar1: or go like this to the end of the school year
VardaValar1: ouch
El Capitan Chobo: in January
VardaValar1: Baton Rouge?
El Capitan Chobo: yes thats where i am now
VardaValar1: Didn't they get hit by Katrina too?
El Capitan Chobo: my school in New Orleans they say with open the 17th of Jan
VardaValar1: Good luck!
El Capitan Chobo: no Baton Rouge didnt get it almost at all
VardaValar1: Yay! You needed some good news : )
VardaValar1: The evacuation ahead of Katrina seemed worse than any damage over here in the Houston area
El Capitan Chobo: Yeah thats how it was from what i heard
VardaValar1: You seem to be on a comp. Do you get to play any?
El Capitan Chobo: every once i na while
VardaValar1: yay!
El Capitan Chobo: u saw me on Saturday
VardaValar1: Aye : )
El Capitan Chobo: now im just tired and ready to go to bed
VardaValar1: Good plan!
VardaValar1: We need to head that way too
VardaValar1: You just caught us : )
El Capitan Chobo: thats good
El Capitan Chobo: good talking with you all
VardaValar1: You too!
El Capitan Chobo: Namarie
VardaValar1: Mara mesta
El Capitan Chobo has left the room.
FallenGlory: Hmm, long meeting tonight, huh? :-)
Eonwe Valar: We're in Post-After-Meeting :}
FallenGlory: Well, just the same, I don't seem to recall many times when people were still talking at, 9:30 MST
VardaValar1: Come around more : )
VardaValar1: We've had seven hour chats
FallenGlory: =-O
VardaValar1: Usually it's Eonwe and me holding it open : )
FallenGlory: You're always holding meetings on sundays
FallenGlory: that's homework time!
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Procrastination prevention
VardaValar1: No other day worked. We tried
FallenGlory: hehehe
VardaValar1: It's the night we go out - it's this it's that
FallenGlory: I understand
VardaValar1: People do homework during the meeting, most are afk anyway
FallenGlory: Maybe I'll get my teachers to assign less
VardaValar1: Long enough meeting, maybe they'll finish : )
VardaValar1: I'm not in school hehehe
FallenGlory: Well, I suppose that would eliminate the problem of homework then wouldn't it?
FallenGlory: hehe
Eonwe Valar: Bosses can assign homework too, so the only true way to eliminate homework is to move into a monastary :}
VardaValar1: They have tons of homework!
FallenGlory: Or become self-employed doing something you love, turning work to play, every day!
VardaValar1: We were looking for Valar pics
FallenGlory: Or you could be a professional athlete, where work actually IS play...
VardaValar1: Janin on Elfwood has a string of them:
VardaValar1: http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.ph p?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=i ndex&do=showpic&pid=10303&orderby= titleA
VardaValar1: Council of Elrond, pardon
FallenGlory: very nice
VardaValar1: http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.ph p?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=i ndex&do=showgall&gid=268&POSTNUK ESID=7b43947bf22568de3f15b812a9bb3 2e8
VardaValar1: starting page for the pics
FallenGlory: Morgoth one is kind of neat
FallenGlory: not exactly how I pictured him, but neat
VardaValar1: http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.ph p?op=modload&name=My_eGallery&file=i ndex&do=showpic&pid=10305&orderby= titleA
VardaValar1: Aye, Morgoth is a mite hirsute and goblin-faced there : )
FallenGlory: hehe
FallenGlory: I'm done my homework on Bronsted-Lowry Chemical theory!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FallenGlory: What fun!!
VardaValar1: Congrats!
FallenGlory: Thank you! It took me like 3 hours...
VardaValar1: I had a minor in Chemistry. My sympathy
FallenGlory: Ack! Why?
FallenGlory: Hehe
Eonwe Valar: Right now I could go for a minor in about 3 different fields.
VardaValar1: I did rather like chemistry : )
VardaValar1: It went well with biology
FallenGlory: I like chemical theory, find it interesting
VardaValar1: Aye, and it keeps changing
FallenGlory: the workload I'm given, however, is somewhat...aggravating
FallenGlory: I had actually planned on being an Engineer until high school physics and chemistry drained me of my passion for both subjects :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: At my university, Computer Science is an Engineering degree, so I've gotta have a bunch of math and science as well.
Eonwe Valar: Just got one more physics class and one or two more math classes and I'm done with required stuff.
Eonwe Valar: as far as those two departments go anyway.
VardaValar1: One thing you might do is look at places you'd like to work and make an imaginary project you're doing for them : )
VardaValar1: We have some new private companies getting into space for instance : )
FallenGlory: Space would be interesting
FallenGlory: The thing is I don't think I'd enjoy just crunching numbers all the time
VardaValar1: You assume that's all you'd be doing? Plenty of design research and testing
FallenGlory: Well, alot of what my father does just seems to be sitting there staring at graphs
FallenGlory: I suppose it depends on what you specialize in
VardaValar1: I guess so
Eonwe Valar: As long as they don't expect you to stand in the back and cheer everyone else on :}
FallenGlory: Haha
FallenGlory: Bah, I lack so much guidance : )
FallenGlory: It's a problem with parents, they're bent on letting you do whatever you want if it makes you happy
FallenGlory: So much easier if I had parents that said "You're going to be a doctor, and that's final, now get to it" : )
VardaValar1: That would at least give you something to rebel against : )
FallenGlory: True enough
VardaValar1: It's really hard to help guide a kid. We try to guess from what they seem interested in, but give a suggestion and they stop like mules : )
FallenGlory: Ah, well
VardaValar1: What do you seem to do well in?
FallenGlory: I guess it's hard to gauge what someone else is really passionate about
VardaValar1: Or find interesting?
FallenGlory: sometimes
FallenGlory: oh, well, history
FallenGlory: computers
FallenGlory: computers seems like its overloaded
FallenGlory: everyone and theyre brother is going to be a computer programmer
FallenGlory: :-)
FallenGlory: their*
VardaValar1: Try hardware design : )
FallenGlory: Ah, but that's not as exciting and fast-paced, really
VardaValar1: Or go into history and use computers to image the past : )
FallenGlory: I've got a passion for history
Eonwe Valar: Hardware design not exiting?
Eonwe Valar: *exciting?
VardaValar1: Try redesigning microchips, lot of money and mind-stretching
Eonwe Valar: I'm just playing with circuits in Digital Logic. I assure you it's exciting :}
VardaValar1: Everyone has something that stirs their blood, but makes someone else's run cold ; )
FallenGlory: Hehehe
FallenGlory: History seems like something that I can't really use though
VardaValar1: Ahh, but you can
Eonwe Valar: You can if you work as a teacher or in a museum. Or as a researcher.
VardaValar1: Go see what historians are currently doing
Eonwe Valar: Write books and such.
VardaValar1: Dig up Troy
FallenGlory: I'm not sure I have the patience to write a book
VardaValar1: They've found a lot of levels of it already
FallenGlory: that would be cool, no doubt
VardaValar1: Anthropology. Be a digger
VardaValar1: use computers to see underground before you poke fragile items with a shovel
FallenGlory: heh
FallenGlory: well, the way I see it computers are useful in anything these days
FallenGlory: I can use them fairly proficiently, so whether or not I have a degree in something dealing with it, its a skill that'll come in handy
FallenGlory: As far as history goes, I don't know, I've thought about it so many times, but it always conflicts with the importance I place on money :-)
Eonwe Valar: Become a bard :}
Eonwe Valar: offer your services to Holiday Inn bars :}
Eonwe Valar: or travel Europe and sing/tell stories at the smaller inns :}
Eonwe Valar: bound to be somebody who gets a kick out of it :}
FallenGlory: Hehehehe, yeah, not too sure if that'll help me defeat those fears of lacking financial wealth :-)
FallenGlory: but someone ought to get a kick out of it, you're right
VardaValar1: Take pics of your digs for a coffee table book : )
Eonwe Valar: If you do that for a few years, your story is bound to be picked up by a reporter :}
FallenGlory: then I could get a reality TV show
FallenGlory: !
FallenGlory: I'm not sure how well a coffee table book of a dig is going to sell
FallenGlory: you could be onto something though
VardaValar1: Anything you do can be angled more than one way, can help financially
VardaValar1: Take videos
FallenGlory: hehe
VardaValar1: Sell to National Geographic, PBS
VardaValar1: Get them to fund your work
FallenGlory: Ack, I dunno, I
FallenGlory: I'm scared :-)
Eonwe Valar: of National Geographic?
FallenGlory: Well, only certain issues
Eonwe Valar: The worst they can do is leave you with one of those tribes they photograph all the time.
FallenGlory: I find that particularly frightening
Eonwe Valar: and if they managed to take the pictures, the tribes obviously aren't very canabalistic :}
Eonwe Valar: Not enough for you to worry at least :}
FallenGlory: hehe
VardaValar1: You don't have to go after live history : )
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