Valar Guild

October 16, 2005 Meeting

5pm ESDT (GMT -5)

AIM: Valar Guild
IRC:, join channel #valarguild. Public Chat Valar
Sigma Chat: click on  Type in your guild name as the user name.
Say a greeting when you enter on any of these platforms so we'll know you're there!
Bridging program by Farmer Maggot-(V) in operation by Farmer himself.
Back to News
Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon-(Valar)
and Varda-(Valar)

Attending list and who belongs to that odd AIM name anyway?  :)  ()

Meeting Begins
    Tolkien chats elsewhere
    Orodreth's topic: Artaher (Quenya) / Arothir (Sindarin) - what do they mean? They /should/ be the same name.
        Also: meanings of Pharazon and Arod.
    Eonwe's topic: The Noldor smiths were supposed to be the finest crafters, but in some things were surpassed by Dwarves and Sindarin Elves. Why?
    Orodreth's topic: elven economy. Requested we pick it up again next meeting.
    WoW talk
    Glorfindel-(V) passes his test and joins the Valar Guild!
    Paladin jokes
    Discussion of new techniques in webwork. Considering trying some out.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1: Yay! We can enter the chat today!
VardaValar1: How is the bridge doing/
VardaValar1: ?
Orodreth V has entered the room.
Orodreth V: /me idles
GilraenV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Hello there :-)
GilraenV: Hihi
VardaValar1: Might have a visitor later
GilraenV: I can only stick around for a little bit today - very tired
VardaValar1: He may want to enter by IRC, if the Bridge is working?
VardaValar1: Glad you could drop by for a hello!
VardaValar1: What time is it for you, Gilraen?
Orodreth V: Gilraen: Don't feel bad, in my two years here I've slept through about half the meetings I didn't sleep through joining.
VardaValar1: Gil, thanks for the huge activity page update
GilraenV: it's just before 10pm... adn I have an 'lovely' early start tomorrow *sigh*
VardaValar1: Oh the fun
Orodreth V: /me returns to idling after noting he has this week off from school and is happy
GilraenV: It was no problem. Hope I did it right, lol :-)
VardaValar1: Congrats, Oro!
GilraenV: Lucky for some, Orod! :-P
VardaValar1: You did an amazing job, Gil :-)
FarmerMaggotV: the bridge should be working
VardaValar1: Woot!
GilraenV: Hehe. It really was nothing. Let me know if there's anything else that needs doing :-)
Orodreth V: Don't worry, I get to begin raking my giant yard tomorrow. It'll take like 3 hours, every day, for the rest of the week to finish.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Farmer!
Orodreth V: Then in a month I can do it again.
Orodreth V: Yey.
VardaValar1: What would happen if you ran a lawn mower over it?
Orodreth V: We just did today.
Orodreth V: This is AFTER we mow as much as possible.
VardaValar1: That doesn't get the leaves too well?
VardaValar1: heh
GilraenV: maybe you need a leaf blower or soemthing
VardaValar1: On a lawn? : )
Orodreth V: ..yea..
GilraenV: I did say 'or something'
VardaValar1: We have kids to handle lawns... ;-)
GilraenV: that's Orod's problem, I think ;-)
VardaValar1: aye : )
Orodreth V: /me really returns to idling/sleeping/ect while noting he'll be on TFT in the valar channel
VardaValar1: Anyone in the Public Chat Valar channel?
VardaValar1: on Bnet?
FarmerMaggotV: a !list IM'd to the bridge would tell you ;-)
VardaValar1: I don't see bnetValar in here
Orodreth V: Eh, whatever.
Orodreth V: I'll just wait here until the WoW talk happens.
Orodreth V: That'll put me to sleep.
GilraenV: hehe
Orodreth V: And yea, bot's in pc valar, but bnetvalar ain't here.
VardaValar1: Oh, you're keeping the list thing out of the chat?
VardaValar1: It worked nicely! Thanks!
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
suilenroc01 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
GilraenV: Oh, I *might* have WoW inba couple of weeks
aranfinwe has entered the room.
aranfinwe: aiyas
suilenroc01: aiya
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
MyCantalopeH8tsU has entered the room.
GilraenV: or rather, I have WoW, but no computer capable of running it on the right side of the atlantic ^^
Arwen V1: Aiya
Orodreth V: Oh, I *won't* have WoW inba couple of weeks. :-P
VardaValar1: Gil, will you be in the US?
Eonwe Valar: hey all
MyCantalopeH8tsU: sorry I cannot stay I have a paper I have to write
GilraenV: indeedy, Varda
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Dior, good luck with the paper and thanks for coming by : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya, just a moment, closing WoW, if I crash: I don't know what's going on here
Arwen V1: bah @ wow, it crashed my computer =|
GilraenV: (I'll admit, I wouldn't bother getting it right now if couldn't play with Gwai or the guild)
Orodreth V: Gilraen: I'll give you a computer capable of playing it if you let me use your account. ;-)
MyCantalopeH8tsU has left the room.
mordacil has entered the room.
mordacil: aiya
Eonwe Valar: heya
LiberalHound has entered the room.
GilraenV: I thought you didn't want WoW, Orod :-P
Orodreth V: Nah.
Eonwe Valar: heya Huan
Shaggyjoe has entered the room.
GilraenV: and I have a computer capable... it's just on the wrong side ofthe ocean....
Eonwe Valar: Long time no see :}
Orodreth V: I'd just want it to bug Arathorn ingame, as he's NEVER ON AIM.
Orodreth V: *cough*
VardaValar1: S. Africa? That should be ok
GilraenV: LOL
VardaValar1: Arathorn is working now, not able to be on WoW as much either
Arwen V1: I havent reinstalled wow yet =/
VardaValar1: I've heard S. Africa could go either way
ArPharazonV: ah, no crash... good
Eonwe Valar: Working on some finishing touches for the updated Games Page.
VardaValar1: Cool!
Orodreth V: Whoohoo, he got a job. Knew he was having big problems with that. Give him my congrats if you ever see him, as I def. won't.
Shaggyjoe: aiya
VardaValar1: Email works ; )
Eonwe Valar: Hey Gelmir
VardaValar1: Aiya Gelmir : )
VardaValar1: Farmer, do we have a Bridge working to IRC still?
Orodreth V: Not for incessant bugging.
VardaValar1: Anyway, you can get on WoW America from anywhere with an international credit card and a US CD
FarmerMaggotV: looking into it, as I multitask
MrMonkey2002Blah has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Looks like that time again
VardaValar1: Aiya Bombur : )
MrMonkey2002Blah: wao
MrMonkey2002Blah: havent seen you guys in a wile
VardaValar1: Haven't seen you on to invite to a meeting : )
VardaValar1: Glad you could make it
VardaValar1: We are here every Sunday, same as for the past 8 years : )
Eonwe Valar: We were getting a bit low on Dwarves :}
MrMonkey2002Blah: ha ha
FarmerMaggotV: d'oh oops
Eonwe Valar: now we've got at least one this meeting :}
VardaValar1: We did indeed need more of the bearded ones
MrMonkey2002Blah: You guys been staying current with WoW ?
VardaValar1: Yes
Eonwe Valar: Several of us play it
VardaValar1: We have a guild branch on WoW Lothar server
ArPharazonV: yup
MrMonkey2002Blah: what server you guys play?
bnetValar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: about 22 of us on our official home of Lothar.
MrMonkey2002Blah: Mmmm :-(
FarmerMaggotV: there ;-)
MrMonkey2002Blah: 60 paladin shadowmoon
ArPharazonV: Lothar in US, Argent Dawn in Europe mostly
MrMonkey2002Blah: Lothar RP?
VardaValar1: You can always make another character to drop by and say hi on Lothar
Eonwe Valar: Lothar is normal.
VardaValar1: No, it's Normal
MrMonkey2002Blah: heh im on PVP
VardaValar1: Means you can do anything : )
VardaValar1: You can do PvP on Normal too, just not required
MrMonkey2002Blah: ne progress in mc/bwl?
MrMonkey2002Blah: or kazzak/azuregos
Eonwe Valar: Still working on getting people up to levels for that.
VardaValar1: We are trying a bit of adding guild-friends on a special channel
Eonwe Valar: We have about 6 lvl 60s right now, several in 50s.
VardaValar1: That gives us a larger pool
VardaValar1: Bombur, could you go to a side chat with Eonwe for the fun catch-up details? We need to start the meeting
MrMonkey2002Blah: certainly
GilraenV: I'm going to go sleep
GilraenV: Namarie, folks
VardaValar1: Good night
VardaValar1: Sorry, a bunch of people came into the room
GilraenV has left the room.

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership News:
VardaValar1: All of you made it to this meeting, so you are all super and get credit for it : )
VardaValar1: Can any of you help with a transcript today?
ArPharazonV: should work, yes
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar : )
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Too lazy to turn off timestamps, sorry.
VardaValar1: Do any of you have Member news? Seen anyone in an odd game?
VardaValar1: Any of the members visible on Bnet, like Isildur-V or others?
VardaValar1: All of you can scout for members, and we need your help
VardaValar1: See if they are polite, read and completed LotR, and you would like to see them again
VardaValar1: Give them our website, and how to come to meetings

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Eonwe has a Games Page report. Go ahead!
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: First off, I've completed the updates for the Games Page, and everyone who sent in info should have info listed.
ArPharazonV: *smacks forehead* I'll do it this week! I promise!
Eonwe Valar: So, check and make sure your gaming information is correct.
Eonwe Valar: If you didn't send in info, get it in :}
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Sorry, Farmer's asking me to test.
VardaValar1: You can slide over and do it during the meeting, especially in parts less exciting for you ; )
VardaValar1: Thanks!
VardaValar1: The IRC is working! Woot!
ArPharazonV: nope, that wouldn't work out, I'd get distracted by the meeting constantly :-)
VardaValar1: Remember all old info has been wiped off the Games page, so it will show you don't game at all
Eonwe Valar: This year, we lost two players pages.
VardaValar1: Just to send an email?
ArPharazonV: well, and to prepare a list :-)
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, 3: Diablo, Everquest, and Neverwinter Nights.
Eonwe Valar: No one admitted to playing those games, so I took them down.
VardaValar1: Diablo?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
VardaValar1: You mean Diablo 1?
Orodreth V: "admitted"?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Diablo 1,
Eonwe Valar: admitted, as in I got no information saying anyone played it
Orodreth V: Yea, just an interesting word choice. Ignore me. :-P
Eonwe Valar: just like when someone plays WoW and doesn't tell me, they didn't "admit" they play it :}
VardaValar1: Aye, it was an interesting word choice
Eonwe Valar: Well, I know we have to have more out there gaming than is listed on the Games Page, they're just not admitting it, hence my word choice :}
VardaValar1: : )
Eonwe Valar: They're not sending in responses to the Games Page and such.
Eonwe Valar: *Games Page Update.
VardaValar1: How are we doing on correct emails?
Eonwe Valar: We only had about 20 out of 100 members send any info in this year.
Eonwe Valar: This is supposed to be the big update to make sure everyone can find other guild members on the games they play, and only 1/5 of the guild takes advantage of that.
Eonwe Valar: well, only 5 were undeliverable, so the majority I have to assume got the letter.
VardaValar1: This is a major service to all guild gamers
VardaValar1: We also need people to use their guild names in odd games to help find each other
VardaValar1: or a reasonable facsimile of it : )
Eonwe Valar: While I'm at it, I'd like to remind everyone that even if for some reason you don't get the Update mail, I still request you send in your gaming info.
Arwen V1: how do we update our email with the guild?
Eonwe Valar: Also, no answer is not an answer since I do not assume you play this year what you did last year.
ArPharazonV: hmm... I can't come up with more than 8 games, though I know there are more...
VardaValar1: Send your email to me, and I'll help there
VardaValar1: I'm your general contact for everything, with a good Forward button when needed ; )
Eonwe Valar: I would much prefer a response like "I'm afraid I don't have time for any online games at the moment" as opposed to no answer at all.
Eonwe Valar: The Games Page Update mail also counts as "contact" btw.
Shaggyjoe: ive got to go to work : (
VardaValar1: Namarie, Gelmir!
Shaggyjoe: Ill talk to yall later. much love! have a great week!
ArPharazonV: ok, I've sent a list of what I can think of right now that I like to play ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Phar :}
Eonwe Valar: In addition to the info update, I did some housecleaning on the Links pages.
Eonwe Valar: I removed several links from the Diablo and his kin page that no longer work.
Eonwe Valar: I updated a few that hadn't been updated yet.
Eonwe Valar: And I renamed the Starcraft/Broodwar links page to something a little more original: "Files of the Xel'Naga"
Eonwe Valar: I've also added a new links page for all LotR based multiplayer games, which I have named "Sites Through the Palntir"
Orodreth V: Eonwe: I see RCtW mentioned on the 'abbreviations' page but no link for players.
Eonwe Valar: It was a game that some had listed under their name at one time.
Eonwe Valar: There weren't enough for a players page of its own, and no one sent in info on it this year.
Eonwe Valar: I just never deleted the unneeded abbreviation note.
Orodreth V: I used to play it, so I was wondering.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks for catching that.
Orodreth V: Sure.
ArPharazonV: what's RCtW then?
Eonwe Valar: Generally, if more than 3 people play a game, I'll throw up a players page for it.
VardaValar1: Doesn't hurt to have it to remind people of it
Orodreth V: Return to Castle Wolfenstein
ArPharazonV: ah, ok
Orodreth V: It's a free game by iD.
bnetValar: [Hyarion] (IRC): Aiya folks.
VardaValar1: Aiya, Hyarion :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: I invited Hyarion, a fellow Tolkien fan
Orodreth V: Nice little FPS, professional quality. It was going to be an expansion to a single-player game, but it got cut so they relased it as..freeware I gues the term would be.
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, I also meant to mention that the scope of the SC/BW page, along with its name change, has been widened to include other games in that universe, including Starcraft: Ghost.
Orodreth V: PM me if you're interested, I'll stop taking up Eonwe's floor
suilenroc01 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Sites through the Palantir is the page for any links for LotR based games, including Lord of the Rings Online, War of the Ring, and Battle for Middle-Earth.
ArPharazonV: just curious, that's all :-)
suilenroc01 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: That should be it of my Games Page news.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: Feel free to look over and report any mistakes or errors to me.
VardaValar1: That was a lot of work and a huge help to the guild
VardaValar1: We can best help him by checking over the page, so let's try to make some time for that
VardaValar1: Forum:
VardaValar1: Those who do the rp need to try to get together and start the next arc!
VardaValar1: Should be fun :-)
VardaValar1: Members Page:
VardaValar1: Some members say they can't access the Members page because it is blocked by the school filter
VardaValar1: You can get the same contact info from the Activity page, although it is not nearly as convenient
VardaValar1: Encyclopedia:
VardaValar1: The Orcs section is now made of separate pages, connected to the correct Author pages, and in the alphabetical index A-Z
VardaValar1: You can access the A-Z at the top of the normal subject index
VardaValar1: The subject menu will continue as always, with the supplement of the A-Z
VardaValar1: A-Z will not be complete until all articles are on their own pages
VardaValar1: New page:
VardaValar1: "What's New in the Articles Section"
VardaValar1: Links page:
VardaValar1: We have a new link to Tolkien Gateway
VardaValar1: Main_Page
VardaValar1: or just
VardaValar1: It's set up like Wikipedia
VardaValar1: Hyarion, the maker of the page is with us right now
bnetValar: [Hyarion] (IRC): *grins*
VardaValar1: Hyarion, would you like to tell a bit about your page?
bnetValar: [Hyarion] (IRC): Sure, as VardaValar1 stated, its just like wikipedia, you can edit any entry in the encyclopedia
bnetValar: [Hyarion] (IRC): Were up to over 2,000 articles and growing daily, but the Valar Guild still has quite a lot of articles that we don't.
bnetValar: [Hyarion] (IRC): Okay I'm done advertising ;-), heh.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Hyarion : )
VardaValar1: Hyarion and I were considering cross-linking articles between our Encyclopedias
VardaValar1: the way we do with Annals of Arda
VardaValar1: It's still in the thinking about it stage
VardaValar1: You folk might want to check out Hyarion's Encyc and toss me an email with your feeling on the matter, or comment in AIM or WoW
VardaValar1: Or say now if you already have an opinion :-)
VardaValar1: Or just sleep....
bnetValar: [Hyarion] (IRC): *chuckles*
VardaValar1: I would love to be able to do a side window with you Hyarion, but it does not work that way on the Bridge between AIM and IRC
VardaValar1: Guess we're stuck with our fabulous fast emails ;-)
bnetValar: [Hyarion] (IRC): VardaValar1, hold on let me see about joining with AIM
VardaValar1: I'll be here : )
bnetValar: [Hyarion] (IRC): I'm logged on now as Srekal86
VardaValar1: Is that an L or a number 1?
bnetValar: [Hyarion] (IRC): L
FarmerMaggotV: looks like L to me
VardaValar1: trying L
VardaValar1: Thanks
Srekal86 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Hyarion : )
Srekal86: ah much better :-)
VardaValar1: This has the advantage of letting you see who all is on too : )
Srekal86: quite a few too.
VardaValar1: Low number to me, but good to see each one!
VardaValar1: Any other Web News?
VardaValar1: Lungorthin can use your book reviews and additions to the list
VegetableMannn has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Veggie : )
VegetableMannn: Hello
Srekal86: hello VegetableMannn.
VardaValar1: Hyarion, were you planning on adding any stories, poems, or other thing with your articles?
VardaValar1: on your Encyc?
VardaValar1: Articles are enough to keep you plenty busy : )
Srekal86: VardaValar1, /anything/ related to Tolkien I plan on adding, stories, poems, fan fiction, I want to list any kind of Tolkien related merchandise, all editions/impressions of books published, everything.
VardaValar1: Ok
Srekal86: Which should keep me busy for a few lifetimes ;-)
VardaValar1: true!
VardaValar1: I was wondering if you'd like to toss any fiction or other fun stuff our way, or an article
VardaValar1: or keep it strictly to a cross-link, if we do that?
Srekal86: VardaValar1, I'll toss everything I have your way ;-) The wiki is not licensed in anyway so anyone can copy any information from anywhere on the site.
VardaValar1: I wouldn't just reach out and grab from your site : )
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Orodreth, are you still in your The Frozen Throne game right now?
VardaValar1: Guess so : )
Srekal86: heh.
VardaValar1: Diablo 2: LoD
VardaValar1: I was playing that this week. Used the Elbereth-(V) account before it could disappear
VardaValar1: Also using the Varda-(Valar) account
VardaValar1: We have other members playing too, but we keep missing each other : )
VardaValar1: Does WoW Europe have a report?
VardaValar1: Menelvagor's not here, Phar. So you're it : )
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
ArPharazonV: well, not much, really... enjoying the new patch...
ArPharazonV: many of our druids went balance to test the moonkin, but since I was kinda broke, I just went back to feral.. and I'm loving it
ArPharazonV: haven't tested Silithus yet, but that's ok... at least I got to finish a few long-due BRD-quests today!
ArPharazonV: oh, and I got 300 leatherworking today! you're now looking at a master-tribal-leatherworker!
ArPharazonV: and that's it, I guess... not much more global stuff to say, about the guild or the raid-alliance... first attempt at Majordomo was done yesterday
ArPharazonV: but I wasn't there ;-)
Valandil Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: One more Europe thing, Valandil is here now : )
ArPharazonV: yup! let's see what he has to tell
VardaValar1: Phar just did the WoW Europe report : )
ArPharazonV: mostly personal stuff, though, so you can contribute whatever you want :-)
Valandil Valar: aiya calaron
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Did the new patch affect you, Valandil?
Valandil Valar: no, i don t think so
VardaValar1: I recommend Silithus when you get a high enough level : )
ArPharazonV: we'll see when I go for Silithus, I want to get done with the Eastern Plaguelands first, and perhaps a few instances :-)
VardaValar1: So is Europe finished then?
ArPharazonV: still have 2 to do in BRD, then I can start preparing for Blackrock Spire...
ArPharazonV: yeah, sure, go ahead with the next item
VardaValar1: WoW US:
VardaValar1: We have been getting together for various quests on most days, often in pairs, sometimes three or more at odd times
VardaValar1: We are having difficulty getting together on the Friday time we picked, but it's still the day we make a try for
VardaValar1: Several of us tried out Silithus
VardaValar1: Blizzard did a lot there
VardaValar1: The flight path moved to Cenarion Hold and there are lots of new quests
VardaValar1: My 60 made a ton of money there compared to most outdoor areas
VardaValar1: Oh, Eonwe! There is ooze-covered thorium in the hives
VardaValar1: You may know already : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I've seen it from above, but not yet capable of fighting off lvl 59 elites solo for it :}
VardaValar1: But with us, you can do it
VardaValar1: Bilbo wanted to get together with you on it
VardaValar1: Veggie has a question for us
VardaValar1: Roller Coaster Tycoon game
VardaValar1: Where can it be found?
FarmerMaggotV: legally?
Eonwe Valar: In stores.
Srekal86: heh.
Eonwe Valar: Walmart should have a few copies if he has one of those
Srekal86: That is a very fun game, are we talking about the 1st or 2nd game?
Eonwe Valar: Or Electronics Boutique, Best Buy, Game Stop..
FarmerMaggotV: or Amazon, etc
Srekal86: I think GameStop bought EB actually
FarmerMaggotV: yea, for far more than I would have =P
Srekal86: ;-)
VegetableMannn: the first
VegetableMannn: ive never played the second
Srekal86: I might have RCT3 lying around somewhere.
Srekal86: the second isnt very good, but the 3rd is.
FarmerMaggotV: yea, I have the third too
Srekal86: 2 is more of an expansion pack while 3 is a whole new engine
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Menelvagor : )
Srekal86: Aiya Menelvagor Valar
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
Menelvagor Valar: sorry for being late
VardaValar1: Phar filled in for you on WoW Europe report : )
VardaValar1: Valandil too : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: care to make some reports of your own? I didn't say much except personal progress
VardaValar1: Roller Coaster Tycoon game currently under discussion
VardaValar1: or not : )
Srekal86: heh.
VardaValar1: Menel, go ahead if you have any WoW stuff?
VegetableMannn: well i used to have it
VegetableMannn: and id build the craziest roller coaster and get all my customers sick
VegetableMannn: you could even take out a part and cause it to crazh
VegetableMannn: crash*
ArPharazonV: I played Theme Park World for a while, still have it lying about
Srekal86: Bump up the speed on the coaster and watch the helpless victims fly off into the sky ;-)
VegetableMannn: yep hahaha
FarmerMaggotV: don't think you can do that in 3?
Srekal86: FarmerMaggotV, oh yes, you get even better graphics of people flying all over
Srekal86: the best is when you know where the coaster will hit the ground, so you put a bunch of people there, lol, man I was evil.
FarmerMaggotV: hm, the UI really wasn't intuitive then =P, I played around with it for a few days
VegetableMannn: hahaha
VegetableMannn: srek is 3 pretty much similiar to 1?
Srekal86: I'd delete pathways so they'd fall in the water.
Srekal86: VegetableMannn, ya, with a beefed up engine, its still fun though, much better going from 2 to 3 than from 1 to 2
VardaValar1: (Please whisper me Tolkien topics, two so far)
Srekal86: Speaking of Tolkien, do you guys visit any Tolkien chats?
VardaValar1: We have them here. I did try visiting before
VardaValar1: They did not seem much interested in Tolkien, more in love life or spam or other personal stuff
Srekal86: heh.
VardaValar1: You know any good ones?
VardaValar1: No, okies
VardaValar1: Any further news before we go to the Tolkien chat?
Srekal86: hm, well I frequent I few, has one but its full of pre-teen/teenagers never talking about Tolkien, has one, but I stopped going there beecause they would always kick idlers.
VardaValar1: Kick idlers? No lurking?
Srekal86: exaclty...I said theres nothing wrong with it, if anything it makes the channel look more active
FarmerMaggotV: just that I got the server switched over this weekend and there shouldn't be any more downtime for a while
Srekal86: but the best ones I've found are the chat, some very intelligent Tolkien scholars, and its fairly active
VardaValar1: I went to one of the Council of Elrond's but it was all personal stuff
Srekal86: has a mediocre chat.
Srekal86: VardaValar1, ya, unfortunately it was very difficult trying to find a good conversation.
VardaValar1: Ok, I might check out the barrowdowns chat then
Srekal86: has a chat but its pretty silent most of the time
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): I belong to the henneth annun mailing list, which is for decent fanfiction (mostly) and you can have some interesting tolkien chats on there if you get them off their latest short story long enough.
VardaValar1: I read the Henneth Annun site sometimes
Srekal86: ack! message was too long and now I lost it.
VegetableMannn: i got an interesting letter in the mail the other day telling me i can make $800,000 in one dollar bills in 3 months
VardaValar1: hehe - might want to skip that business opportunity
Srekal86: Thanks Alasseo I'll have to check that out.
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Sure thing.
Srekal86: is probably the most active chat for Tolkien fans, with barrowdowns being the second most active
VegetableMannn: yep
VardaValar1: Thanks
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): I've got like 800 digests of the thing sitting in my gmail that I'll never get around to reading. :-P
Srekal86: torn has a lot of movie fans, but they also have a lot of intelligent members, plus they have a weekly hall of fire which discusses advanced topics like HoMe and the Silm
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): So be warned, that group is ACTIVE.
VardaValar1: If there is no other news or business or relevant comments?
Srekal86: Alasseo, hah
Srekal86: plus theres always, which is for the most part idle, but we have a trivia bot with over 1000 tolkien questions that we play around with
VardaValar1: I learned not to join newsgroups. Drowned my mail
Srekal86: VardaValar1, my same policy ;-)
VardaValar1: Sounds like a fun bot : )
VardaValar1: Ok, let's shift to Tolkien

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Orodreth, you spoke up first, so you have the first topic. : )
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Artaher (Quenya) / Arothir (Sindarin) - what do they mean? They /should/ be the same name.
ArPharazonV: gah... languages... count me out of this discussion, I guess...
VardaValar1: And that is a specially interesting topic because Orodreth goes by Alasseo also
VardaValar1: Phar, we have another coming up
ArPharazonV: that's ok, I'll stick around :-)
VardaValar1: Just pick up your RotK and Sil index and see if you can find word elements
VardaValar1: Oh good : )
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): I've searched high and low for anything remotly similar to any part of these and cannot find a thing.
VardaValar1: And you picked them up from?
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC):
ArPharazonV: his last writings? sounds like HoME
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): I've been meaning to pring this up for awhile so I could update the topic, but kept forgetting.
Srekal86: let me check my languages of middle-earth book.
VardaValar1: Says "in his last writings" Tolkien used Artahir and Arother
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Pharazon: Which I don't have.
Srekal86: neither of those are in my languages book, hm
ArPharazonV: oh, this sounds promising: "Artaher: See Arothir."
ArPharazonV: in HoME nr 12
ArPharazonV: try note 43 of the Shibboleth of Feanor
ArPharazonV: can't really reproduce it, since I can't see some of the signs on my keyboard...
VardaValar1: Orodreth doesn't have it
ArPharazonV: well, some of you might be able to reproduce it?
VardaValar1: How about just close?
ArPharazonV: in any case, arat is an extended form of the stem 'ara-', noble.
VardaValar1: You can always just tell us what has a diacritical mark on it : )
ArPharazonV: the derivative 'arata' (with a few signs which I can't reproduce, I think they're called tildes) was much used as an adjective in Telerin and Sindarin (Telerin arata, sindarin arod)
VardaValar1: ~ is a tilde
ArPharazonV: yup, those
ArPharazonV: can't find it on my keyboard
Srekal86: to the left of the one maybe?
ArPharazonV: no, that's @ and §
ArPharazonV: ~
ArPharazonV: found it!
Srekal86: ;-)
ArPharazonV: next to the backspace
ArPharazonV: but it could also be a dash on the letter, in this book... can't fully make it out
ArPharazonV: anyway, arata/arod is an extended form of ara, noble
Srekal86: doesn't arod mean swift?
VardaValar1: Also used as high, king
ArPharazonV: Artaher, according to the text, is "noble lord", correctly Sindarized as Arothir
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Glee. Thanks Ar.
ArPharazonV: anything else you want to know? ;-)
ArPharazonV: oh, btw, it seems Pharazon means "gold" or "golden", I found out some time ago... so my full title is "Golden King the Golden"
ArPharazonV: very odd, that..
VardaValar1: Sil tells that ar(a) is high, noble, royal
Valandil Valar: yep
VardaValar1: Looked up Arod in the LotR, doesn't translate
Valandil Valar: the high guard (guild) is like aratirith i thought ?
ArPharazonV: perhaps it was a horse of nobility :-)
VardaValar1: Does say the horse was restive and fiery, smaller and lighter than the others
VardaValar1: That was the horse, not the word, but might give a clue
VardaValar1: Where does the info on the translation of the horse's name come from? The Wiki does not say.
Srekal86: ya thats most likely wrong
Srekal86: heres another one that says arod means grey-coat
VardaValar1: The horse was definitely a gift, wergild really, from Eomer, a horse of the Mark, whose owner was killed in battle with the Orcs that took the hobbits
VardaValar1: TT "Riders of Rohan"
Srekal86: its in old english that arod means swift.
VardaValar1: ah cool
VardaValar1: nice page
Valandil Valar: logic
VardaValar1: Tolkien knew his Old English, so it's quite likely right. He also took liberties with the languages though
VegetableMannn: yeah he was very tricky with wording
VardaValar1: That link is The Thain's Book:
VardaValar1: Another to add to our Links : )
VardaValar1: I'd like to mention the other topic we had for tonight:
VardaValar1: from Eonwe earlier, that we didn't get to play with.
VardaValar1: The Noldor smiths were supposed to be the finest crafters, but in some things were surpassed by Dwarves and Sindarin Elves. Why?
ArPharazonV: they were surpassed by the Sindarin Elves?
VardaValar1: Eonwe, are you there? : )
ArPharazonV: I understand the Dwarves, created by Aulë they were set to be crafters from their very nature... but the Sindar too?
VardaValar1: It says "in some things"
VardaValar1: I was going to let Eonwe answer, but remember who made the Rings of Power?
Eonwe Valar: pardon, studying for a German test as well as watching the chat.
ArPharazonV: with the help of Sauron, of course... who was originally a servant Aulë...
ArPharazonV: *of
Eonwe Valar: I've found passages that lead me to believe the Sindar and the Dwarves have developed their smithing in certain ways that surpass the Noldor.
Eonwe Valar: one sec and I'll see if I can dig them up
Eonwe Valar: but off the top of my head, try UT and look for info on Ithildin. That may give what I'm looking for with the Sindar.
VardaValar1: Celebrimbor was Noldor anyway
ArPharazonV: of course... so many books downstairs, but UT is up in my room...
Srekal86: You might consider getting a pdf of it, helps me out a lot.
ArPharazonV: ithildin does not show up in the index of UT
VardaValar1: same, Phar
VardaValar1: pdf of UT?
Srekal86: ya
Srekal86: or any Tolkien book for that matter, much easier using the search feature for finding things.
VardaValar1: Illegal, I thought, to have electronic Tolkien books
VardaValar1: Not?
Srekal86: well, you could scan the book yourself and just use it for your personal use.
Eonwe Valar: I assure you Ithildin does exist :}
VardaValar1: Ithildin, isn't that what was used on the door of Moria?
ArPharazonV: moon-metal or something
ArPharazonV: only reflects moonlight and starlight
VardaValar1: Only shows up in it
ArPharazonV: wasn't it also used on Thror's map?
VardaValar1: Silly book pile teetering....
aranfinwe: time for me to depart (boss is letting me go home early)
aranfinwe: namarie all
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Srekal86: Namarie.
aranfinwe has left the room.
VardaValar1: qutoing
VardaValar1: "Celebrimbor of Hollin drew these signs."
VardaValar1: He was Noldorin.
Eonwe Valar: Well, here's the one about Dwarves.
VardaValar1: Whole thing is: "The Doors of Durin, Lord of Moria. Speak, friend, and enter. I, Narvi, made them. Celebrimbor of Hollin made these signs"
Eonwe Valar: "Therefor Thingol took thought for arms, which before his people had not needed, and these at first the Naugrim smithied for him; for they were greatly skilled in such work,
Eonwe Valar: though none among them surpassed the craftsmen of Nogrod, of whom Telchar the smith was greatest in renown. A warlike race of old were all the Naugrim,.... Their smithcraft indeed the Sindar soon learned of them;
Eonwe Valar: yet in the tempering of steel alone of all crafts the Dwarves were never outmatched even by the Noldor, and in the making of linked rings, which was first contrived by the smiths of Belegost, their work had no rival.
Eonwe Valar: "
VardaValar1: Very good! Thanks1
VardaValar1: !
Eonwe Valar: "...for the hauberks of the Dwarves were so fashioned that they rusted not but shone ever as if they were new-beurnished."
VardaValar1: The Sindar had great teachers then.
Eonwe Valar: That is at least for the Dwarves.
ArPharazonV: yup, and apparently the Sindar learned from them
ArPharazonV: and, of course, from Sauron later...
VardaValar1: Sauron taught the elven-smiths of Eregion "Council of Elrond"
Eonwe Valar: The Elves of Eregion were Noldor
ArPharazonV: oh, right
ArPharazonV: anyway, it seems clear that the Sindar "surpassed" the noldor in certain areas, because of their Dwarven teachers
VardaValar1: What is this in history, that the Sindar and Dwarves have this relationship? : )
Eonwe Valar: I'm sure there's another example I can give for the Sindar
VardaValar1: But the Noldor in Eregion also had a good relationship with the Moria Dwarves
LiberalHound has left the room.
ArPharazonV: but perhaps the Moria-dwarves were less skilled than those in Nogrod... and who's to say the Eregion-Noldor were still worse than those Sindar, in those certain areas?
VardaValar1: /w liberalhound Aiya Huan! Sorry I missed seeing you there. Hi : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: *needs coffee*
ArPharazonV: woohoo, just created a document of 216 pages.... I was going to print it, but it's a bit much...
VardaValar1: The Sindar with the Noldor in Eregion could have learned too
VardaValar1: The Eregion Elves did learn from Sauron who learned from Aule
Valandil Valar: i have to go, it s late here
VardaValar1: Eonwe and I are going to go do a test
VardaValar1: Thanks for coming, Valandil : )
VardaValar1: And all the rest of you
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Valandil
VardaValar1: If you folk would like to continue to chat, please feel free
VardaValar1: I and probably Eonwe will be present in two chat rooms and look in on the discussion and toss in our two bits now and then. : )
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): someone remind me about the elven economy for next week, mmkay?
VardaValar1: We can put that in the Sunday meeting notes for this week
VardaValar1: What did you want to consider about elven economy?
VardaValar1: It would have been different for different groups at different times.
VardaValar1: Then we can grab the topic for another meeting, from the News page
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): I think we discussed it before
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): but I was considering late-third age
VardaValar1: Many angles to play with, and new folk, so maybe something new will be said.
ArPharazonV: yes, I do recall we having discussed it before... but the results I have forgotten
VardaValar1: Reason we have transcripts on the News, and a Forum
VardaValar1: You might want to try the Forum in case you can find a different set of eyes as well.
VardaValar1: Late third-age, which elf group(s)?
Menelvagor Valar: want me to link it?
ArPharazonV: wasn't it something about currency, instead of economy in general?
VardaValar1: Try making a specific question?
VardaValar1: Thanks Menel, but nothing to link yet
Menelvagor Valar: I meant the forum :-)
VardaValar1: yes, but link what?
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): yea, but I'm going broader this time
VardaValar1: Ok, what do you need to know? I figure it's for your story?
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): just a very general what economic system would the elves of the third age have
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): not this time
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): just wondering what other people think
ArPharazonV: what exactly do you mean with "economic system"?
ArPharazonV: capitalism etc?
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): yessir
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): we already more or less know their govermential
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): which is a monarchy, or close enough to count
ArPharazonV: problem is, we know very little of the daily lives of the people of middleearth, a possible exception perhaps being the hobbits
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Ar: When did having nothing but pure speculation stop us before?
VardaValar1: Some info on the raft elves, gives a clue about the working Silvans there
ArPharazonV: we don't know how food and objects are distributed, how jobs are spread out, etc
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Water trade for the Elves of Thranduil for one
ArPharazonV: and most of the things we have seen is a state of war
VardaValar1: The Lorien Elves were very reclusive
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): which suggest a self-sustaning a forest
VardaValar1: With a Ring of Power
ArPharazonV: indeed, pretty hard to build farms
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): now that's an interesting dilemma
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): granted
VardaValar1: It can be done. I was reading a book about the pygmies who live quite nicely with just the forest
ArPharazonV: gathering herbs and hunting animals? sounds great for tribes, but when entire peoples and kingdoms have to live on it...
VardaValar1: Small number of Elves
ArPharazonV: not that small, I'd guess
VardaValar1: Forest not all that small either
VardaValar1: But aye
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): large enough to wage war on sauron's mirkwood holdings
ArPharazonV: indeed
VardaValar1: You can bet they chose trees that gave fruit and nuts, and gave plenty of browse to the hunting aniimals
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): granting the power of several wizards helping
VardaValar1: That would be a sort of wildlife, forest management close to farming
ArPharazonV: and where would they get the metal for their weaponry and armor anyway? do they have mines and quarries within their borders?
VardaValar1: And cloth
ArPharazonV: sure, large parts may be made of wood and cloth... but would it be enough?
VardaValar1: Suppose Mirkwood made use of all those handy spider webs? : )
ArPharazonV: hehe
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): well, there was trade with dwarves at one point
VardaValar1: I meant, where they got cloth
ArPharazonV: how long was it since Lorien had traded with Dwarves?
VardaValar1: Rivendell had plenty of trade with all races, it seemed
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): a looong time
VardaValar1: Lorien is the tough one to figure
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): but presumably metals would only be wron in war
mordacil has left the room.
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): they're obviously good enough archers for hunting
VardaValar1: Whatever they started with in Lorien didn't wear out, thanks to the Ring
ArPharazonV: Mirkwood had some 'native' mountains, that's for sure... they might have gotten stuff there
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): and they obviously have the resources for bows!
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Mirkwood certainly had trade with the humans and some with the Dwarves, especially after the Battle of Five Armies
VardaValar1: Mirkwood and Rivendell obviously had contact, so probably had trade
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): they obviously have the resources for meat, and at least limited fruits and veggies
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): but grains?
VardaValar1: Grains can be grown in small meadows
VardaValar1: Elves did make bread, like lembas
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): sure, but in sufficient amounts?
VardaValar1: Nuts can be used for flour too
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): I mean, their population wasn't overly large, but it was enough to defend Lorien from orcs and to counter-attack
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): and Saruon had to have known that Lorien existed. Having mallorn trees wasn't exactly good for a low profile
ArPharazonV: hey, they could have been native ;-)
VardaValar1: Lorien was known but very protected
Valandil Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Rumors told of a scary witch in Lorien : )
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Sauron had to have known someone had a ring in there, but not who
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): remember, elrond had the hidden valley
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): mirkwood was known to all, more or less
VardaValar1: Sauron had to pass through the humans and dwarves to reach the elven kingdoms, the northern attack
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): the grey havens were almost certinaly known as well
VardaValar1: Aragorn helped all those up north as well as Frodo by drawing away Sauron's attention
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): interesting that they were never attacked that I can recall
ArPharazonV: I doubt Sauron would have deemed it of great importance, not before dealing with Rivendell and Lorien at least...
VardaValar1: Smaug was intended to be a problem for the men up north, I'm sure
VardaValar1: and he could then have flown at Mirkwood
VardaValar1: Sauron made use of everything he could influence
VardaValar1: Imagine if he had stirred up the Balrog to come on out of Moria
ArPharazonV: luckily, he did not count on a hobbit and 13 dwarves, as well as a good archer with an excellent arrow..
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Eek
VardaValar1: Those pesky nine walkers, aye!
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): No, what he didn't count on is the Valar mucking up his plans, if indirectly.
VardaValar1: Sauron thought the Valar had abandoned Middle-earth, just enjoying their place in Valinor
VardaValar1: Right
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Yup. Though he found out when our friendly tratiorious Wizard betrayed their trust.
ArPharazonV: "and I would have gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for those meddling hobbits!"

bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): found*
VardaValar1: hehe
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): heheh
FarmerMaggotV: lol
Arwen V1 has left the room.
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
Srekal86 has left the room.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Arwen V1 has left the room.
VardaValar1: looks like AIM is having one of its clearances
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: save fast
FarmerMaggotV: I've got the whole thing logged, don't worry
ArPharazonV: saved
VardaValar1: Thank you, Farmer!
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): too lazy to take off timestamps, so no log form me
VardaValar1: We may need it
VardaValar1: Not hard, just click the choice
FarmerMaggotV: I've got a log with timestamps and one without =
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): But I /like/ my timestamps.
FarmerMaggotV: me too Oro =)
VardaValar1: If the times are EST, no problem
VardaValar1: Ohh, we have the end of Daylight Savings Time on Oct 30, for EST
VardaValar1: Warning!
Srekal86 has entered the room.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): CST
ArPharazonV: Aiyata Srekal!
Srekal86: Aiya ArPharazonV.
VardaValar1: Welcome back
VardaValar1: Daylight savings time hits EST Oct 30
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): WHOOOHOO level 50 in puzzle frenzy!
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): *dances*
VardaValar1: Europe will be wondering where we are : )
ArPharazonV: puzzle frenzy?
VardaValar1: Congrats : )
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): TI-84 caculator game
ArPharazonV: grats indeed
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): :-P
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: I still have a 83 lying about somewhere
ArPharazonV: got minesweeper on it ;-)
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): haha
VardaValar1: :-)
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): puzzel frenzy is hard
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): :-\
VardaValar1: I really want to know how to get Tolkien books electronically
VardaValar1: Where do we go for that?
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): I'm sure whoever the publisher is now sells them
FarmerMaggotV: if the copyright's expired anywhere, Project Gutenberg might have it
FarmerMaggotV: but seems they don't
VardaValar1: Tolkien is still in copyright
Srekal86: ya, I believe lotr/hobbit dont expire until almost 100 years after publication
VardaValar1: Hyarion said he had pdf
ArPharazonV: yes, probably scanned the pages himself
VardaValar1: oh well
Srekal86: sure, definitely no proof I didnt ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: yea, but I've seen works that are still copyrighted here not be in say, Russia, so they can put it on Project Gutenberg
Srekal86: /msg vardavalar1 which books do you need?
Srekal86: hm...
FarmerMaggotV: hehe
Srekal86: that didnt quite work.
VardaValar1: If it's by Tolkien, either JRRT or Christopher, I use it.
VardaValar1: I had heard that they were unavailable except as print.
Srekal86: they are ;-)
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Now at level 52..I hate 3 move puzzles.
VardaValar1: okies
ArPharazonV: have you ever played ultimate spin doctor on the pc?
FarmerMaggotV: I've played it on the Mac, way back
ArPharazonV: I have it currently installed on our old pc... used to play it for a time, in the past
ArPharazonV: were you good at it?
FarmerMaggotV: nah
FarmerMaggotV: I was like 12 =P
ArPharazonV: :-)
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): pass for level 52 is 208 for anyone with a ti-84 and puzzle frenzy :-P
ArPharazonV: ssh! don't say that! now nobody will do the first 51 levels!
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): bugger them, I want help :-P
VardaValar1: heheh
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Hey Farmer, know what a really cool idea for the bent side of your bridge would be?
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): bnet*
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Make it whisper me everything and let me whisper back so I can go game and still be in the meeting. :-P
Eonwe Valar: you'd have problems keeping up with game chat and meeting chat :}
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): pfft
ArPharazonV: not to mention the mistells ;-)
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): what game chat does a tower d have?
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): ar, no mistells when no one else is on to tell...
FarmerMaggotV: lol
FarmerMaggotV: it's impossible Oro
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): :-(
FarmerMaggotV: well, unlikely to get done
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): same thing
ArPharazonV: you might mess up gamechat and meeting-chat in your hurried chaos, and shout game-tactics in the meeting!
Eonwe Valar: Farmer would then have to set it up for everyone who ever uses bnet, and that would be a pain.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): nono
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): you didn't read it carefully
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): so that *I* could game
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I heard that, but decided it wasn't fair to just let *you* game :}
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): *posts on his non-existant livejournal about how no one understands him and how the world isn't fair..*
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Well I'm gonna go game all by my lonesome.
VardaValar1: aww
ArPharazonV: right, I'll be finishing the read of 10 days of Morrowind Journal, and then I'm going to bed... so no gaming for me :-)
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): you just don't want me to beat you, Ar.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Chicken
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): BAWK BAWK
ArPharazonV: you realise it's 2:30 am here, right?
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): *makes chicken motions*
ArPharazonV: I'm getting tired
Arwen V1 has left the room.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Excuses, excuses.
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well then Phar
Eonwe Valar: in case I don't get a chance later.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): G'night Ar.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Cuz I won't.
ArPharazonV: thanks
suilenroc01: well, i must be off
Eonwe Valar: Take care
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
suilenroc01: namarie
suilenroc01 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: well, I'll be off... saving and sending
Eonwe Valar: Take care and sleep well.
ArPharazonV: saved
VardaValar1: Thank you!
ArPharazonV: sent
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
ArPharazonV has left the room.
VardaValar1: *crickets chirp*
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
Srekal86: /me yawns
VardaValar1: Well hi : )
Eonwe Valar: Yaba
Eonwe Valar: daba
Eonwe Valar: doo
MrMonkey2002Blah: DOO
Eonwe Valar: thought you'd beat me to finishing my line, eh? :}
MrMonkey2002Blah: mine
VardaValar1: All lines are Eru's, but he lets us borrow them. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: heh
VardaValar1: Me, I fish with lines.
Eonwe Valar: all the good lines anyway :}
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: Some of the lines are in his junk pile.
Eonwe Valar: Morgoth must've been sifting through that pile when coming up with a language for orcs.
VardaValar1: That's it!
VardaValar1: Also had most of the g and k letters.
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): anyone still there?
Srekal86: Aiya Orodreth.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Aiya.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Just you, eh?
VardaValar1: Aiya!
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Oh, hi Varda.
Eonwe Valar: I have the semblance of being present.
VardaValar1: Welcome to the Valar Guild, Glorfindel-(V)!
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Farmer needs to sacrifice a cd-key and get this bot into Valar.
VardaValar1: He just passed his Entry test with Eonwe and me
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Ahh, congrats.
VardaValar1: VegetableMannn is now able to ride Asfaloth where he pleases.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): And is able to denounce uppity Arwens trying to steal his part. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Hear Hear!
Eonwe Valar: or Here Here!, however that goes :}
VardaValar1: Huzzah!
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): There you go.
Eonwe Valar: Kaloo Kalay :}
VardaValar1: Hear, hear : )
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): *is off to watch people lose at TD*
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Back in a bit.
VardaValar1: TD?
VardaValar1: We live in a bowl of conflicting alphabet soup.
VardaValar1: Every abbreviation has several meanings.
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Tower Defence
VardaValar1: Thanks : )
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Fun with switching between chat mediums
Orodreth V: at a whim. :-P
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: Whimsical Elf : )
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): why do people never listen when someone who knows what they are doing gives advice?
VardaValar1: Hyarion is over here giving me advice and wishing I'd listen. ; )
Srekal86: ;-) I should warn you, I love to have friendly debates ;-)
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): ..rhetorical question, Varda. :-P
VardaValar1: Me too. It's part of what we do every Sunday : )
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): They go something to the effect of..
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): "Balrogs have wings!"
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): "They do not!"
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): "Too!"
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): "Not!"
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): ;-)
Eonwe Valar: My advice is the best. That's why I constantly listen to myself :}
VardaValar1: There you go, Eonwe1
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): Not too concieted there, Eonwe?
VardaValar1: It's very close to a Gandalfism.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): I talk to myself to hear some interesting points.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Nope, not concieted at all :}
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): My grandmother always used to accuse me of that..
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): It was, of course, a wholly baseless accuation. Slander, even.
Eonwe Valar: *conceited
VardaValar1: Of course
LiberalHound has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: wb Huan
VardaValar1: Aiya Huan!
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): *is bored of tds but has no current aoses*
bnetValar: Orodreth-V@Azeroth (Bnet): *throws stones absent-mindedly at Melkor*
MrMonkey2002Blah has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Careful now. WOuldn't want anyone to burst out into song and dance.
VardaValar1: *busts a move*
Eonwe Valar: Ok, we're safe. She only bursted into dance :}
Menelvagor Valar: that's better than me bursting :-)
Orodreth V: She's the Queen of
Menelvagor Valar: worst that can happen there is a chain of super-nova's and that's not all that likeable :-)
Orodreth V: Light, of course she can dance.
Menelvagor Valar: and whoopie!
Menelvagor Valar: rogue up to 33 :-)
Eonwe Valar: congrats
Menelvagor Valar: only got 2 chars, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: only 2 in the Guild, aye
Menelvagor Valar: ah
Menelvagor Valar: so, apart from those in the guild, what is your highest lvl char?
Eonwe Valar: lvl 51 Rogue
Menelvagor Valar: nice :-)
Eonwe Valar: Had I more time for gaming, he might be 60 by now.
Eonwe Valar: he's been 51 for a couple of months now.
Menelvagor Valar: I'm afraid that by the time I get to play on US servers, I'll have no chars left to explore :'(
Menelvagor Valar: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: I have the same thing with my 2 26's
VardaValar1: It'll be time to play Lord of the Rings Online : )
Eonwe Valar: You'll have decided on a favorite by then though, and you can make that char for the guild.
VardaValar1: They will be doing Expansions, hero versions on our high characters, eventually.
Menelvagor Valar: I don't know Eonwe
Menelvagor Valar: I like my mage
Menelvagor Valar: but she's so boring.
Menelvagor Valar: rogue's pretty boring as well btw.
Eonwe Valar: That sounds a bit like an oxymoron, you liking a char you find boring.
Menelvagor Valar: I mean, all I need to do to lvl is chain a couple hundred mobs that are 2-3 below him
Menelvagor Valar: I like her, but because she's boring, I only play her sometimes
Menelvagor Valar: usually friday, saturday and wednesday.
Eonwe Valar: I level by questing, not by grinding, so I don't experience those problems.
Menelvagor Valar: (MC times)
Menelvagor Valar: oh, I quest a LOT with my rogue
Menelvagor Valar: I've probably completed more quests with Echoríath already than I have with Gondoline.
Menelvagor Valar: I'm questing all over the world
Menelvagor Valar: I just completed Duskwood and Wetlands.
Menelvagor Valar: now moving into Shimmering Flats, Arathi Highlands, Desolace and Stranglethorn Vale
Eonwe Valar: congrats
Menelvagor Valar: I admit, I had a little help in Duskwood :-)
Menelvagor Valar: killed Morbent Fel, Mor'Ladim, Eliza (the Embalmers wife) and Stalvan
Eonwe Valar: I find killing undead more fun on my Paladin.
Menelvagor Valar: but having a druid and a mage along to help isn't that bad an idea :-)
Menelvagor Valar: haha
Eonwe Valar: Don't really get into it with my Rogue.
Menelvagor Valar: well, my Paladin hasn't moved out of Redridge yet.
Menelvagor Valar: oh, my rogue kills everything and anything in its way :-)
Menelvagor Valar: btw, do you know a nifty add-on called titan bar?
Eonwe Valar: So does mine, just I enjoy killing undead more with my Paladin.
Eonwe Valar: Nope, I don't use addons at all.
Menelvagor Valar: too bad :-)
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: quickloot and questminion are very, very handy
Eonwe Valar: I prefer to play my character, not have it played by mods :}
Menelvagor Valar: but Titan Bar has this handy thing that records the top damage you do on every spell / move.
Eonwe Valar: Hey Gwaihir
VardaValar1: Aiya Gwaihir : )
Menelvagor Valar: of course, but making your chars life a little easier is just like RL stuff :-)
Menelvagor Valar: we wouldn't be playing those chars in the first place, now would we?
Menelvagor Valar: or we*
Eonwe Valar: hmm, I'm afraid I missed the point of that, Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: anyways, the thing that I want to say was, that with the strike recording thing, I managed to have every single strike on a MC mob / boss :-)
Menelvagor Valar: even 1k fireballs on a boss called "Golemagg the Incinerator" *grin*
Menelvagor Valar: anyways, I think I'll try and get an hour of shut-eye before having to wake up :-)
Eonwe Valar: good luck :}
VardaValar1: Good plan
VardaValar1: Nighty night!
Menelvagor Valar: I'll be back in like an hour :-)
VardaValar1: ouch
Eonwe Valar: I never get in sleep if I'm up that late.
VardaValar1: I do
VardaValar1: Sometimes you have to grab that hour or fifteen minutes.
Menelvagor Valar: neither do I usually, but I need SOME sleep at least, cuz my eyes are burning
Menelvagor Valar: and that's not because of a residue of a curse cast upon me :P
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie and cya all in an hour :-)
Eonwe Valar: I see little point in crawling into bed when I'm up that late, though that doesn't mean I won't grab a few minute's sleep between classes.
Eonwe Valar: sleep as well as you can :}
Menelvagor Valar: if I start grabbing those minutes between classes, I risk grabbing a few classes in between a couple minutes.
VardaValar1: When I see a person fall asleep driving with eyes wide open, I recommend a little sleep when possible.
Menelvagor Valar: exactly Varda :-)
Eonwe Valar: My eyes are never wide open when I fall asleep behind the wheel :}
Menelvagor Valar: so, good night and cya'll soon :-)
VardaValar1: Good night!
VardaValar1: I've seen it, though.
Eonwe Valar: go to bed :}
Eonwe Valar: Some Paladin jokes on the Blizzard forums tonight. Anyone care to hear a couple?
VardaValar1: sure
Eonwe Valar: let's see..
Eonwe Valar: disclaimer: These may be more amusing to me because I have a Paladin :}
Eonwe Valar: How many paladins does it take to plug in a lightbulb?
Eonwe Valar: A: 5
Eonwe Valar: one runs in, concecrates the room, bubbles, and runs away
Eonwe Valar: The second gets a ladder, and perpares to spam heals on the person above.
Eonwe Valar: The third attempts to plug in the light bulb, but instead leaves, frustrated, because seal of command never procs.
Eonwe Valar: A fourth stuns the lighbulb.
Eonwe Valar: The fifth paladin methodically puts his hand on the electrical socket until it crits him 4 times, then unloads with righteous fury, plugging in the lightbulb.
Eonwe Valar: That's one
Eonwe Valar: another amusing one
Eonwe Valar: Whats the difference between polymorph and a paladin?
Eonwe Valar: A: One is white, fluffy, harmless and heals itself, and the other is a crowd control spell cast by a mage.
Eonwe Valar: and with that, I need to go afk for a bit :}
VardaValar1: lol!
VardaValar1: Just read them
VardaValar1: and the other is the spell, o no : )
Shaggyjoe: aiya
Shaggyjoe: what are yall doin
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: After-meeting
VardaValar1: Looking at some stuff that might improve the website
VardaValar1: What are you doing, Gelmir?
Shaggyjoe: just got off work
VardaValar1: Congrats : )
VardaValar1: Honored that you would spend precious off-time here!
Shaggyjoe: trolling the DAoC VN message boards.. giving advice.. and what not.
Shaggyjoe: bah
Shaggyjoe: Im sorry I had to leave
VardaValar1: np
Shaggyjoe: looked like a very exciting meeting
VardaValar1: : )
Shaggyjoe: MEO ever comming out?
Shaggyjoe: I was hoping it would come out soon, so I can make that my game where i play with yall
VardaValar1: It changed name to Lord of the Rings Online and claims to be coming out next year
Shaggyjoe: >.<
Shaggyjoe: figures
VardaValar1: I would probably need a new comp
VardaValar1: New management
Shaggyjoe: whats the requirements at atm?
VardaValar1: They don't know! *hehehe*
VardaValar1: Ok, here's what we have under consideration:
Shaggyjoe: stinks, "lets change to name to LoTRo, so it will have more appeal to those people who just watched the movies, know nothing of the actual world, and will at least buy it and play it for a few months.."
VardaValar1: Eonwe, this is for you to look at
VardaValar1: Right, Gelmir ;-)
VardaValar1: phpnuke and mediawiki
Shaggyjoe: *steps back into the shadows*
VardaValar1: Drags Gelmir back out.
Shaggyjoe: Bah to you ma'm!
VardaValar1: This is supposed to be easier than what we do now. Better, faster, stronger...
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Light Valie are bad on shadows. ; )
Shaggyjoe: ;-)
VardaValar1: This stuff is for you too. It's yours too
VardaValar1: It would be a big change in the look of the pages if we do it
VardaValar1: Probably in how they operate
Shaggyjoe: oh.
VardaValar1: Mess up current links
Shaggyjoe: some sorta like... database / network thingy for the site and all the links?
VardaValar1: Aye
Shaggyjoe: I did html in highschool then promtly changed my mind and just stuck to the hardware side of computers.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I like HTML stuff, but this doesn't require it.
GwaihirValar: sry for not talking, been frantically gettin' ready for work... but I have read... heh... and now I must ACTUALLY head to work :-)
GwaihirValar: cya!
GwaihirValar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Namarie!
Eonwe Valar: back
VardaValar1: Hardware is good
VardaValar1: We really need more hardware people out there.
VardaValar1: Welcome back : )
Eonwe Valar: I've considered taking a class on PHP, since it'll apply towards my degree, but until I do and know enough for me to operate on my own, I'm sticking to html.
Eonwe Valar: thanks
VardaValar1: I'm not likely to take such a class.
Eonwe Valar: I stick to what I actually know and can understand without alot of outside help. That way I'm never at a loss for how to improve or update a page.
Eonwe Valar: *know or can understand etc..
VardaValar1: It seems to operate a lot like a Forum.
Eonwe Valar: from my understanding, php is what alot of newer forums use.
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: My frames may be making us look like dinosaurs.
VardaValar1: I hope not, but ugh. Might be so.
Eonwe Valar: Don't see why they would.
VardaValar1: Because it is old technology?
Eonwe Valar: Well, I suppose, but is there anything in the new technology that you would use to make things different?
VardaValar1: I'm being told so, yes.
Eonwe Valar: I suppose if you wanted menus that appear out of thin air, buttons, sounds, and animated movies,..
VardaValar1: Something like Wikipedia for the Encyc, and the php thing for easier guild use, if I understand correctly.
VardaValar1: Something kind of like this:
Shaggyjoe: hmm
Shaggyjoe: my roommate withdrew from his classes
VardaValar1: Gandalf got one comic
Eonwe Valar: Well, it looks nice for it, but I'm not sure that it wouldn't be overkill for us right now.
VardaValar1: oh really! ouch!
Shaggyjoe: he is going to vullenteer, at homeless shelters.
VardaValar1: He could get his education and do it at the same time?
Shaggyjoe: he feels like the lord is wanting him to do that at this juncture of his life.
Shaggyjoe: he was also really stressed out.
Shaggyjoe: but he got accepted to Terry Buisness College.
Shaggyjoe: big college that you have to go to to get your bachelor's in buisness Management at the unversity of Ga
Shaggyjoe: I didnt push it.
VardaValar1: Understood
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): *begins throwing various household objects at Morgoth. Chairs, tables, lights, dressers, and the like.*
Eonwe Valar: The encyclopedia link on the tolkien gateway web page linked aboev does not work.
Eonwe Valar: Seems several if not all don't work. I guess they were all moved with no links to the new location?
VardaValar1: He is no longer running a guild, just the Encyc, so yes, I think
VardaValar1: I was playing with it too
VardaValar1: He had to go work on his research paper.
Srekal86: the encyclopedia link is linked to whos server is has been down
Eonwe Valar: ok, and the gamerz stuff?
Srekal86: all pages can be viewed by changing the url to instead of
Eonwe Valar: ah
Srekal86: thats the same as
Srekal86: you still have to change the indvidiaul urls
VardaValar1: So we could put our Index page and our News page here.
VardaValar1: What else would work?
VardaValar1: Members maybe?
VardaValar1: A link to the Encyc
VardaValar1: How would this serve the Games page?
VardaValar1: Maybe our FAQ and Joining pages
LiberalHound has left the room.
VardaValar1: So we run the menu on the left, news in the middle, open stuff to the middle replacing the news
Srekal86: correct, search google for clan/guild and phpnuke and you'll see some other samples
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: It looks a lot like frames
VardaValar1: just no scroll bar
VardaValar1: scroll is on the far right
VardaValar1: It still seems to be links to pages we make that go in the middle.
VardaValar1: With the database, one change hits the whole thing at once, instead of needing individual changes.
VardaValar1: I'm not sure how our guild pages overlap enough to justify needing a database
Srekal86: why would they need to overlap?
VardaValar1: To make use of a database
Srekal86: thats not the only thing a db is for
Srekal86: nothing overlaps in the
VardaValar1: So it helps how?
VardaValar1: I mean, what is the database helping then?
Srekal86: look at any tolkien website you like, I can just about gurantee you that it uses css/database/something like php or asp
VardaValar1: Annals of Arda : )
VardaValar1: Lore Book of the High Elven Tongue
VardaValar1: Ardalambion
Encyclopedia of Arda
VardaValar1: at least we get a nice list : )
Eonwe Valar: and I'm sure it does great for them.
VardaValar1: I thought you wanted us to use Wiki for the Encyc
VardaValar1: This is the php thing
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Srekal86: mediawiki uses a database/php/css
VardaValar1: ok, but we were talking about the guild page
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Srekal86: then why was the wiki brought up?
VardaValar1: Welcome back
Srekal86: Aiya Eonwe Valar.
Eonwe Valar: thanks. internet disconnected.
VardaValar1: Because you changed to talking about Encycs
Srekal86: nope...
VardaValar1: Those are not gamer pages
Srekal86: they dont use mediawiki
Srekal86: annals of arda was the encyyclopedia you first brought up.
Eonwe Valar: You told her to name any tolkien site she liked.
VardaValar1: Srekal86: look at any tolkien website you like, I can just about gurantee you that it uses css/database/something like php or asp
Srekal86: exactly.
Srekal86: guild/tolkien same difference.
VardaValar1: ok, we're all tired
Srekal86: both phpnuke and mediawiki use css/databases/php/etc, just about /every/ website does.
VardaValar1: You have a report to write
Srekal86: ;-)
VardaValar1: Except the ones I mentioned
Srekal86: and I'm referring to good websites.
Srekal86: the ones that get the traffic.
Eonwe Valar: Annals of Arda isn't a good website?
Srekal86: it has some good information but compared to something like or they dont stand a chance
Srekal86: or even or
VardaValar1: Don't stand a chance against what?
Srekal86: the sites listed.
VardaValar1: You mean in getting traffic?
Srekal86: yes.
Eonwe Valar: so how much would you consider "good traffic" then?
Srekal86: well your not going to get one constant number.
Eonwe Valar: ballpark figures work.
Srekal86: a couple hundred uniques a day
Srekal86: maybe closer to 1,000
VardaValar1: Just because they have a pretty site?
Srekal86: search engines like pretty sites.
VardaValar1: I thought they liked lists in the meta : )
Srekal86: meta tags?
VardaValar1: aye
Srekal86: no they stopped caring much about those long ago
VardaValar1: How do they search then?
Srekal86: its still counts for something, but not nearly what it used to
Srekal86: well, google in particular has one enourmously complex equation, it has a lot to do with how old the site is, hence your high rank on google for something like the term tolkien, but it has a lot to do with links in
Srekal86: who you link to, intensity of keyterms, and a bunch of other things, I'll go through the site to help you equip it for search engines
VardaValar1: If we get a new site, we lose some of our rank then?
Srekal86: no, its all about the domain, although google knows when something is changed, they also care a lot about how much content gets added/how often/etc
VardaValar1: So it is how many people link to us also?
VardaValar1: That is daily : )
Srekal86: oh yes, thats a big factor
VardaValar1: I add almost daily
Srekal86: if someone like links to you who have a high page rank, that helps a lot
VardaValar1: That's why you emailed me for a link
Srekal86: of course.
VardaValar1: So our Links page should have a pretty decent rating. heh
Srekal86: well it matters who links to the page
Srekal86: i cant imagine too many people linking to the page, so it wont have that great of a rating
Srekal86: in fact, linking to low level page rank sites can actually bring your page rank down
VardaValar1: Our Encyc ranks under Tolkien in Google between 51 and 60 out of 7,100,000
Srekal86: yep, thats quite good, I'm at like 304 as of this afternoon I believe.
Srekal86: its mainly because you started your site so early
Srekal86: so many people started after the movie so they have a hard time getting ahead of you
VardaValar1: We are not the same kind. We are a book group
Srekal86: google doesnt care....
VardaValar1: That is why we got in early
Srekal86: yes I know that.
VardaValar1: Ok, it's really late
VardaValar1: Let's call it a night
Srekal86: Namarie.
VardaValar1: or morning for some of us : )
Eonwe Valar: Take care.
VardaValar1: Namarie!
VardaValar1: The web will still be there tomorrow!
Srekal86: not if we the backbones keep fighting, heh
VardaValar1: hehe
Srekal86: europe is starting to put up a fight as well
VardaValar1: Maybe I am not understanding what you meant
VardaValar1: ATT, SBC backbones are what I thought of
VardaValar1: that sort
Srekal86: the companies who support the backbone to the internet.
VardaValar1: aye
Srekal86: you heard about the downtime the other week right?
VardaValar1: We had a hurricane here, so that is all I thought
Srekal86: ah no, there were some companies fighting about money so they shut off the other end from using their fiber optics
VardaValar1: Lots of things were having downtime
VardaValar1: That will not make them popular with customers
Srekal86: not like we get to choose ;-)
VardaValar1: I choose my phone company and DSL service
Srekal86: I'm not talking ISP's here.
VardaValar1: That is ATT and SBC though
Srekal86: ya theres loads of other companies that own all this wire going all over the world
VardaValar1: Those were only examples, aye
Srekal86: ya but like I use Time Warner, I might have to go through 20 companies wires just to get to
VardaValar1: The military requires the internet, so it will step in if it gets too bad
Srekal86: heh, lets hope not.
VardaValar1: They have huge government contracts : )
Srekal86: government in control of the internet, that'll be the day
VardaValar1: Scientists used it to exchange info freely
VardaValar1: What went bad was businesses getting in to make money
Srekal86: so you think if the government controlled the internet we would be better off?
VardaValar1: No
VardaValar1: I like the scientists' version : )
Srekal86: :p
VardaValar1: I'm a biologist by training, might be why ;-)
Srekal86: ah.
Eonwe Valar: Just for fun, did a search on Tolkien gaming. embers2005.htm came up as the thirteenth link.
Srekal86: nice.
Srekal86: see how much age of site has to do with it? too much if you ask me.
Eonwe Valar: as 26
VardaValar1: Oh the horror that our ancient Tolkien Gamers site would have such a high rating
Eonwe Valar: My Games Page is older than that # 13 actually, and I haven't hit it yet.
Srekal86: I'm merely saying that more relevant sites are being pushed back just because they are younger.
VardaValar1: It is weird, because that particular page was made this year
VardaValar1: We are not relevant? hehe
Srekal86: VardaValar1it has nothing to do with the actual page but the domain its on.
Srekal86: VardaValar1obviously present company excluded.
VardaValar1: It's ok, you can call me Varda
VardaValar1: Most do. Much shorter
Srekal86: Eonwe Valar: thank god /just/ the age of the site will not get you the highest ranking
Srekal86: VardaValar1actually va+tab is much shorter for me ;-)
VardaValar1: okies
Eonwe Valar: it's on the same domain
Srekal86: Eonwe_Valar, so your saying there are two pages both on the same page, one is older, and it isnt ranked as high
Eonwe Valar: the pages I gave as 13 and 26 are under the same domain as the Valar Guild Games Page, with the Valar Guild Games Page being older than the one ranked 13.
Srekal86: do you think maybe the keyword intensity and frequency is higher on one?
Srekal86: like I stated earlier, thank god /everything/ isnt based on the age of the page.
VardaValar1: Interesting - under Tolkien Art our Acknowledgements page comes up at 31
Srekal86: yet another point that irrelevant older sites are being ranked too high
VardaValar1: We have links to Hildebrandt and Rolozo and others on it
VardaValar1: I've emailed with them too : )
Srekal86: cool.
VardaValar1: That has a bit to do with it
VardaValar1: Not just age
Srekal86: did you mean links from hildebrandt and rolozo?
VardaValar1: Nope, not on our own page
Srekal86: then linking to them wont do much
VardaValar1: Do they link to us? I doubt it. Hadn't considered it
Eonwe Valar: heh, did a search on Valar Gaming and the top two entries were Valar Guild pages :}
Srekal86: when someone links to you it means a lot more than you linking to them
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: We aren't hurting them : )
Srekal86: of course not.
VardaValar1: Pardon if my humor gets worse the later it gets : )
Srekal86: ;-)
Srekal86: my humor stays at the same negative number no matter the time ;-)
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: This kind of a game, seeing where our pages rank
VardaValar1: Do the search engines give their formulas somewhere?
Srekal86: heh no.
Srekal86: there are a lot of SEO books though you can purchase.
Srekal86: they help quite a bit.
Srekal86: you might consider checking out something like
Srekal86: but obviously much much much more important is tracking every piece of statistical information you can grab the visitors
Shaggyjoe has left the room.
VardaValar1: ok, but while it is entertaining to see numbers, does it matter?
Srekal86: does what matter?
VardaValar1: Should we worry about our numbers sliding down as the younger sites age?
Srekal86: of course
Eonwe Valar: I wonder how many people out there are still linked to our old domain...
VardaValar1: Does it matter at all?
Srekal86: although obviously as the younger sites age so will you ;-)
Srekal86: everything matters.
Srekal86: the more hits you get the more members you get the more help you get the better players you get, etc
Eonwe Valar: Just found a page that has us linked twice :}
Eonwe Valar: well, more hits doesn't necessarily translate to more members for us.
VardaValar1: We have a high rating now and don't get that many, aye
Eonwe Valar: We've had several who were interested in joining up until they read our rules and/or heard the had to actually know something about Tolkien.
Srekal86: more hits /always/ means more members
VardaValar1: Problem, would we lose our domain name with all those hits by going to this new php or wiki ?
Srekal86: of course not
Srekal86: google just thinks you added more content
VardaValar1: ?
VardaValar1: So our content is not moved to this new place?
VardaValar1: It just manages the old info?
Srekal86: this new place? it just goes over the top of your site
Srekal86: you'll just convert your content to the new format
VardaValar1: So it's a new interface
Srekal86: sure
Srekal86: you'll obviously have to move it to a temporary directory while you move it to the new format
VardaValar1: Obviously?
Srekal86: well you cant put a page on top of another one with the same name...
Srekal86: your thinking too hard into it
VardaValar1: Not a link
VardaValar1: I'm trying to avoid "keyboard face".
Srekal86: heh
VardaValar1: Most unsightly
VardaValar1: I'm really calling it a *oops* morning now.
VardaValar1: Mara mesta!
Srekal86: heh
Eonwe Valar: Get out while you can :}
Srekal86: ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Fly you fools! :}