Valar Guild

May 8, 2005 Meeting

5pm ESDT (GMT -5)

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Transcript team: Ar-Pharazon, Menelvagor, Varda

Attending (13):
    Aerandir V, ArathornValar, ArPharazonV, GilraenV, FladrifV, Gil-galad-V/Xseanzee disco, Haleth-(V)/Druidfalconwolf, Huan-Valar/LiberalHound, Irime-(V)/Irime, FarmerMaggot-V/bnetValar, Menelvagor Valar, ThorondorV, VardaValar1

Meeting Begins
    Irime-(V)'s "few words"
    Eonwe-(Valar)'s letter
    Gwaihir-(Valar)'s hello via Gilraen
    Ar-Pharazon-(V) turned 20 years old last Friday
       New article: "Irime" by Elatan-(Valar)
    Traveling LotR Exhibit
    WoW page
    D2X Ladder
    Battle for Middle-earth
    Guild Wars
    Forum role-playing game "Scouting Ahead"
    Irime's topic: What do you imagine elven fealty to have been like? Or if you are aware that Tolkien talks about it somewhere, what did he say about it?
    Writing, real life use of medieval weapons now

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
ThorondorV has entered the room.
ThorondorV: Heya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: well, now I've got quests in 3 zones instead of 2... keeping an oversight is going to be tricky
ArPharazonV: oh well, I'll just put the Eastern Kingdom aside for now...
ThorondorV: Hmm, any idea is Varda coming?
ArPharazonV: no idea
ArPharazonV: not a clue either
ThorondorV: I'll leave pretty soon, too late here in Finland
ArPharazonV: ic
ArPharazonV: well, if nobody arrives in time, I'll pass the message
ArPharazonV: any business you want to share just in case?
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
TheSirG3 has entered the room.
GilraenV has entered the room.
Irime has entered the room.
TheSirG3: hm, didn't notice what time it was =P
ArPharazonV: Aiya all
ThorondorV: Nothing spectacular I guess
ThorondorV: heya heya
Irime: suliad!
bnetValar has entered the room.
TheSirG3: The bridge should be up on all sides
Irime: How does the bridge work with IRC, just for future reference?
TheSirG3: it should work good, but it's been little tested
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): well, it works here
Irime: I mean, if I wanted to use IRC instead, would I have to do anything on my end to activate the bridge?
TheSirG3: nope, just go into the channel in IRC
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya!
TheSirG3: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Adding Irime's name to my Buddy list :-)
VardaValar1: Welcome to the group, Irime!
FladrifV has entered the room.
LiberalHound has entered the room.
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
Irime: Thank you, Varda!
ArPharazonV: Aiya all 3
VardaValar1: Aiya
FladrifV: aiya
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
VardaValar1: Storming here, in case you wonder if I suddenly disappear

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Member News:
VardaValar1: Irime has joined us as a full member :-)
Xseanzee disco: heuyyyy
VardaValar1: Thorondor scouted and tested, and she made a perfect score! Bragging rights are hers :-)
VardaValar1: Irime, would you like to say a few words of introduction?
Irime: Sure...
Irime: I am a college student studying linguistics and anthropology. Besides Tolkien I'm interested in Tai Ji and medieval studies.
Xseanzee disco: Tai Ji?
VardaValar1: What is Tai Ji?
Irime: yes
Menelvagor Valar: some sort of Combat Sport?
Irime: sometimes spelled tai chi, it's an asian internal martial art
ThorondorV: Chinese body control/martial arts?
Xseanzee disco: like fighting with yourself?
VardaValar1: ahh, thanks. Meriadoc enjoys that too
Irime: sort of like kung fu, but more of a mental focus
ArPharazonV: medieval studies.. anthropology... you're quite edging my college study, archaeology ;-)
Irime: cool
Xseanzee disco: i practice a mean version of fung shue
Xseanzee disco: havent had a bad dream in months with all the good chi flowin through my room!
Irime: neat! although I can't say I'm too familiar with fung shue
Irime: heh
VardaValar1: Medieval studies. Do you try any of the practical fun with that, such as Society for Creative Anachonisms?
Irime: Yes, I'm in the SCA
VardaValar1: Woot!
VardaValar1: Gate's Edge here :-)
Irime: Cynnabar, if you must know
VardaValar1: Thanks, must know!
Irime: cool!
VardaValar1: (Demo's being held at Kingdom of Heaven showings this weekend, all over the US)
VardaValar1: Enough plugs ;-)
Irime: yeah, I've heard!
VardaValar1: What would you like to do in the Valar Guild?
ThorondorV: Finland's strongest man Jouko Ahola is in a role in that movie :-)
VardaValar1: Cool! Do you remember the role?
Irime: mostly meet fellow Tolkien fans who I can have good discussions with
VardaValar1: (We went to the movie yesterday. We all recommend it!)
ThorondorV: I have heard he's a knight teaching Orlando Bloom's character to fight
Irime: but I'm interested in gaming as a side thing
VardaValar1: Which games?
ArathornValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: WoW? ;-)
TheSirG3: Heya Arathorn!
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Fangorn says welcome to the guild : )
VardaValar1: Aiya Arathorn!
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
VardaValar1: Meet our new member, Irime, doing her "few words" :-)
Irime: aiya Arathorn! probably D2 since it's the only one I've played before
VardaValar1: Do you have the Expansion?
Irime: I do not
ArathornValar: Aiya
VardaValar1: You'll enjoy it : )
Irime: but I'd be interested in any game, so maybe I'll try WoW
VardaValar1: You are in the US, so if you have a chance, please come to Lothar server
VardaValar1: That's where the guild branch is located in WoW
Irime: all right
VardaValar1: Not that I would push anyone, oh no. ;-)
ArPharazonV: any word on the connection between Europe and US yet?
VardaValar1: I haven't heard anything new. Had hopes on the recent patch, but nothing visible
ArPharazonV: ic
VardaValar1: If so, I will come bug you on Argent Dawn in Europe!
Menelvagor Valar: cool!
ArPharazonV: soloing is great fun, but when I get to higher levels, it would be fun to do instances or advanced guild-stuff with you people ;-)
VardaValar1: And you can come see us too
ThorondorV: Hmm, just curious, but how many in Valar plays Guild Wars?
Menelvagor Valar: not me
VardaValar1: They are supposed to post their games for the Games page, but I know that several play who have not posted
ArPharazonV: I've been thinking about Guild Wars, but haven't made up my mind yet... I still have a belated birthday-present going for me, so perhaps I'll ask it
ThorondorV: I have heard it's pretty nice one, and has no monthly fees.
VardaValar1: Back to Membership news:
VardaValar1: Eonwe said he would be late as he is taking his mother out for Mother's Day
Menelvagor Valar: how attentive
VardaValar1: Here are his words:
VardaValar1: Hail!Mother's Day will pull me from the computer for a bit as we're taking mineout to dinner, so chances are I'll be late or not make it in time to the meeting.
VardaValar1: Aside from this, I wanted to say, Happy Mother's Day to all the Mothers in and of the Valar Guild! :}
VardaValar1: Take care :}Eonw�
GilraenV: Gwaihir sends greeting, but has once again been sucked into the black hole known as 'work'
VardaValar1: We were lucky to see him last meeting. Thanks for passing on his hello
GilraenV: no problem :-)
VardaValar1: Hellos from Fangorn, Eowyn, Sauron, and Bilbo
Menelvagor Valar: reminding me of Mothers Day, Happy Mothers Day to the Mom of the Guild, Varda!
Menelvagor Valar: let's hear it people! :-)
VardaValar1: /curtsys
Menelvagor Valar: /bow
TheSirG3: /me claps =)
VardaValar1: Thank you on behalf of all the moms : )
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
VardaValar1: Web News:
ArPharazonV: my birthday last Friday!
ArathornValar: /genuflects
VardaValar1: Woot!
ArPharazonV: I'm now 20 years old!
VardaValar1: How old are you now, Phar?
ThorondorV: It's getting a little late here.. so I'll depart now. Happy Mother's Day, and good night to all.
VardaValar1: A nice age : )
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Namarie and thanks for coming, Thorondor!
Irime: namarie!
ArPharazonV: celebration that the Earth orbitted the Sun 20 times since I decided to behold the light of day...
ThorondorV: Always a pleasure :-)
ThorondorV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: for the first time ever I honestly didn't have a clue about what I wanted for my birthday
ArPharazonV: so, for now, it's just 'money' and 'you'll get something later'
ArPharazonV: so maybe Guild Wars is closer than I thought ;-)
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyclopedia:
VardaValar1: New article by Elatan-Valar for our new member
VardaValar1: Irime
VardaValar1: You can find it listed under Elves/Lalwende
VardaValar1: Tilion also has some info on the character
Irime: I saw that, I will have to send my thanks.
VardaValar1: He would enjoy that : )
VardaValar1: You might enjoy checking out his Annals of Arda, companion to the Valar Guild Tolkien Encyclopedia
VardaValar1: Also in the Encyc
VardaValar1: Haleth-(V) sent in her novel for the Stories
Irime: All right, I will.
VardaValar1: It is now in the editing process and we hope to have it up this week
VardaValar1: In other news,
VardaValar1: the Lord of the Rings exhibit is now making its way around the world.
Menelvagor Valar: any chance it will hit the netherlands?
VardaValar1: When it reaches Houston this summer, a bunch of us Texans will head that way, maybe costumed.
VardaValar1: Check the listing of where it is going
VardaValar1: The link is on the News, and I will open that and grab it
VardaValar1: Accidentally closed it : )
Menelvagor Valar:
VardaValar1: Heh, thanks Menel
ArPharazonV: why aren't those things ever in the Netherlands... or even Europe ;-)
VardaValar1: Did you check it?
ArPharazonV: yes
ArPharazonV: when it was first on the news
VardaValar1: It comes from New Zealand, and I know it goes through Australia
VardaValar1: Ask them to come to the Netherlands!
ArPharazonV: Australia, US, and Singapore
VardaValar1: I was happy to see it come to Houston instead of Dallas ;-)
ArPharazonV: I love Tolkien, but I'm not travelling all the way across any ocean just to see an exhibition
VardaValar1: Maybe Eonwe will have to come to us this time!
Irime: Perhaps the Queen of Denmark could get them to come :-)
VardaValar1: That would be cool : )
GilraenV: didn't you know, Phara, Europe isn't part of the world ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: she's still a princess you know :-)
VardaValar1: Any other of you web page makers have web news for this week?
Irime: oops, true
VardaValar1: Sure it is, Gilraen ;-)
ArPharazonV: yes, I'm starting to realise that, Gil...
VardaValar1: I think it has to do with asking and bidding wars too.
VardaValar1: Need a very large convention site
VardaValar1: Takes an hour to look at it all, at the least
VardaValar1: I consider that a conservative estimate
VardaValar1: Menelvagor, anything new on the WoW page?
Menelvagor Valar: nope
Menelvagor Valar: not yet
VardaValar1: Except for the Members page being updated every few days
Menelvagor Valar: aye
Menelvagor Valar: there is one thing I am wondering though
VardaValar1: On that, I need to know professions and if you have Apprentice, Journeyman, Expert, or Artisan
VardaValar1: ?
Menelvagor Valar: (when) will it be linked from the Valar main page :-)
VardaValar1: Should it be? Wasn't it supposed to go through your WoW page?
VardaValar1: I can do that if you guys want it
ArPharazonV: main: skinning and leatherworking
ArPharazonV: first alt: mining and blacksmithing
Menelvagor Valar: on the Lothar people, Phar :-)
VardaValar1: Email me preferably
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: I only do Lothar
ArPharazonV: too bad
VardaValar1: Europe can set up their own page for Argent Dawn
VardaValar1: I can't see them, so Europe will have to do it
Menelvagor Valar: what do you mean by supposed to go through my page?
VardaValar1: It is WoW stuff, Lothar members, so the Lothar members would be part of that page
VardaValar1: Just link a button to it
Menelvagor Valar: oh that, yes that goes through my WoW page
VardaValar1: You might have another button for Argent Dawn
Menelvagor Valar: I was talking about the main WoW page link from the main Valar Guild site :-)
VardaValar1: Does it also need to be on the main index?
VardaValar1: ohhh
VardaValar1: More webwork. Will go on the to-do list
Menelvagor Valar: since that link still goes to Maglor's WoW page
VardaValar1: Should be up! Major oversight to be corrected
VardaValar1: I had hoped that you two would be able to resolve that and work together, but guess it isn't happening
Menelvagor Valar: good thing to have people with good eyesight around :-)
VardaValar1: Change will be made this week, probably tonight time willing
Menelvagor Valar: I haven't talked to, or seen Maglor in months already :-(
VardaValar1: If anyone can figure out why the revolving Tolkien quotes stopped working on the News page, let me know
VardaValar1: I'm still wrestling that
VardaValar1: Any other Web news? Arathorn, any new screen shots or other?
ArPharazonV: I blame the internet
VardaValar1: We must figure out how to adjust : )
ArathornValar: I have tons but theyre not uploaded .. think they would take too much room
Menelvagor Valar: I checked for a couple links, and it seems that Azaghal's Tolkien Site is no longer where it was
Menelvagor Valar: I have no idea whether it has just been moved, or deleted
VardaValar1: Ara, how about from one of those annoying image holder servers?
ArathornValar: er.. reprofessions how can you tell which level you're at.. coesnt say on the char that I can see :-\
VardaValar1: Do you have the current location, Menel?
VardaValar1: Look on your icon, the message it brings up shows the level
Menelvagor Valar: no, I just checked the link from the site
ArathornValar: those image holding servers fiddle with the file names and make it too much workk to start renaming all the links on the pages
ArPharazonV: you can check your profession-levels on the skills-page, accessed by 'K', or by a tab on your character-page, accessed by 'C'
VardaValar1: How about just for the new ones, Arathorn?
ArathornValar: AHH! perfect.. thx muchly Varda :-D
ArPharazonV: or is that not what you meant?
VardaValar1: I just need the name, not the number. Those change too fast, Phar
ArathornValar: not the number level, I meant the level type that Varda mentioned :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, those
ArathornValar: Did you try downloading that excel file I linked to Varda?
Menelvagor Valar: I wonder, what's a skill of 300 called?
VardaValar1: The Bridge is working nicely for Sigma Chat, Farmer. Good job!
ArPharazonV: artisan, I think
ArPharazonV: 1-75 apprentice
Menelvagor Valar: Grand Artisan, or just Artisan?
ArathornValar: still artisan I think
VardaValar1: No. That info changes too much
ArPharazonV: 76-150 journeyman
ArPharazonV: 151-225 expert
ArPharazonV: 226-300 artisan
VardaValar1: Email it to me please. Too much if everyone does it here in the chat
ArathornValar: yeah just artisan.. my skinning is at 300 and just says Artisan
ArPharazonV: I'll email it to you... because it's in the transcript :-P
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: Tricksy
VardaValar1: Any further Web news?
Menelvagor Valar: I'd say someone is starting to wake from his long, long slumber and up to his old tricks
VardaValar1: Keep him shoved underground, Vanyar!
ArPharazonV: I'm newly in my tweens... I'm 'giddy'.
ArathornValar: ahh just noticed it tells you in the spellbook/tab too
VardaValar1: Thanks, Ara
ArathornValar: on the icon in there

VardaValar1: Gaming:
ArPharazonV: ah, right, correct, forgot about that
Menelvagor Valar: no more webnews from me
VardaValar1: The Friday WoW gaming group went very well
VardaValar1: Elatan set up an Uldaman run
VardaValar1: We did a batch of quests we shared
VardaValar1: Full guild group
VardaValar1: That was for the Lothar group
VardaValar1: Fladrif has a report for the Europe group :-)
FladrifV: were grouping when everyone is on
FladrifV: and making our way through the wow galaxcy :-)
VardaValar1: Is that fairly often? Once a week or better?
FladrifV: group with arphara is almost a daily base
VardaValar1: Very good! So you're keeping about the same level?
FladrifV: ar is going ahead hes now lvl 20
ArPharazonV: I passed him on the second or third day after starting to play ;-)
VardaValar1: If you are within 5 levels, should not be bad
ArPharazonV: he never caught up with me, although he's getting close
VardaValar1: Is Menel running an alt with you?
ArPharazonV: yes, now also level 20
VardaValar1: Excellent : )
ArPharazonV: and he's helping with his main as well
VardaValar1: Good deal
FladrifV: very handy :-)
VardaValar1: We have two level 60's and a 59 in Lothar now, big help : )
ArPharazonV: we also have alternative characters on another server, with which we often play when all of us are online on the exact same time, and feel like developing them
FladrifV: aliance or horde?
VardaValar1: Lothar is Alliance. We were hoping to develop a Horde group if we got enough people, on another server. But people keep running off
FladrifV: ic difficult to develop an alt when you have a main :-)
VardaValar1: Aye
FladrifV: atleast this is true for me :-)
ArPharazonV: indeed, our tauren shamans are getting quite neglected now ;-)
VardaValar1: Some of us have some hefty alts, some of us don't use hardly any
VardaValar1: Arathorn is king of the alts ;-)
ArPharazonV: Arathorn is king of WoW period, I think ;-)
VardaValar1: On other gaming news
VardaValar1: Irime is playing D2
VardaValar1: Does anyone else still play it, without the Expansion?
VardaValar1: Finarfin plays the Expansion, and I do too sometimes
Menelvagor Valar: don't even play X these days, unfortunately
ArPharazonV: so many games... so little time...
VardaValar1: Ladder D2X Expansion people need to email me their standings, if only to show participation
Menelvagor Valar: aye, Phar
VardaValar1: You don't have to be at the top, just let us know who is out there to play with!
GilraenV: I do very occasionally
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Cool, Gilrraen : )
VardaValar1: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Aerandir V: aiya
VardaValar1: Aerandir, we are in gaming news
Aerandir V: ok
VardaValar1: Our new member, Irime, plays D2, but not expansion.
VardaValar1: What do you play, Aerandir/
VardaValar1: ?
Aerandir V: Starcraft, but not much now
Aerandir V: plan to get battle for middle earth sooner or later
VardaValar1: BroodWar of StarCraft or straight StarCraft?
Aerandir V: both
VardaValar1: Heard that's fun : )
VardaValar1: We still have some places available in the Forum rpg
Menelvagor Valar: I've got BfME
Aerandir V: there is a new star wars RTS that looks good too
ArPharazonV: you didn't like BfME, didn't you, Flad?
Aerandir V: not out yet though
VardaValar1: but we are about to send away a batch of elves, so get your slot quickly!
Menelvagor Valar: don't have a DVD player though :-\
ArPharazonV: *did you
ArPharazonV: brb, my brother wants to check his email
FladrifV: I didn't like the game :0
FladrifV: :0 =:-)
Aerandir V: Whats bad about it
VardaValar1: Anyone here from Dark Age of Camelot at the moment?
Aerandir V: advertisements only tell the good
FladrifV: I didn't like the story line
FladrifV: hero;s can die an d live again
FladrifV: borimir can be kept alive
FladrifV: and didn;t like the control style
VardaValar1: So it lets you play with the story line
FladrifV: kinda yes
Aerandir V: the context sensitive control system?
ArPharazonV: back
Aerandir V: is that hard to work with?
VardaValar1: Keep Boromir alive by letting Faramir go as he should have! :-)
FladrifV: but I think arphara can do better review
FladrifV: although he will be positive :-)
ArPharazonV: heh... I think I've given a review somewhere on the forum
FladrifV: it was a too high not play serous game
VardaValar1: You need to send reviews to the Gaming page. That makes it easy to find them later
FladrifV: runing rounds with gandalf and a balrog
FladrifV: without falling down
FladrifV: that kind of stuf
ArPharazonV: ok, here's my general review taken straight from the final paragraph of my forum-post
FladrifV: killing 1000 earth mens in moria...
ArPharazonV: Campaign-mode is new to me, and awsome.
ArPharazonV: I like the heroes quite a bit.
ArPharazonV: The resource gathering is amazing, the limited bases (places with building-fundaments)-aspect is pretty nice, to prevent you from flooding the map with towers,
ArPharazonV: and the ring/evenstar-powers are quite impressive, and yet not too overpowered.
ArPharazonV: Not to mention, of course, the Lotr-aspect... the story's good, the cinematics look cool, the authentic movie-portraits, -voices, and -music are great too. I recommend it.
ArPharazonV: copy and paste is so much fun...
FladrifV: I hated it because of the copy paste effect
ArPharazonV: I mean the copy and paste effect from my forum-post ;-)
VardaValar1: Time is becoming short for some of us. Let's go to Tolkien now : )
FladrifV: and I mean the effect in the game :-)
VardaValar1: Please message me your topics. One in the queue now

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Irime, would you like to give your topic?
Irime: I would, but I'm afraid I'll have to leave it and run
VardaValar1: That would start us, good enough
VardaValar1: Thank you
VardaValar1: We will probably go right into tangents ;-)
Irime: but here it is: What do you imagine elven fealty to have been like? Or if you are aware that Tolkien talks about it somewhere, what did he say about it?
VardaValar1: Thank you, Irime
VardaValar1: This might be addressed in Peoples of Middle-earth
VardaValar1: Does anyone here have a copy with them?
ArPharazonV: ...yes! I do!
Irime: enjoy, I have to go to a meeting
VardaValar1: Yay for The Golden!
VardaValar1: Namarie!
Irime: I'll look forward to reading the transcript
Aerandir V has left the room.
Irime: namarie!
Irime has left the room.
ArPharazonV: but I don't know what I have to look for... the book is mostly about the appendices
Aerandir V has entered the room.
Aerandir V: thanz
ArPharazonV: fealty, you say? lemme get my dictionary...
VardaValar1: Welcome back : )
VardaValar1: Allegience to a lord or king
ArPharazonV: ah
VardaValar1: Allegiance
VardaValar1: It's a sworn thing with a bit of ceremony
ArPharazonV: well, I... don't see anything in the book that could reference to it
VardaValar1: With us, we believe in the Valar Guild, rather than a particular member
VardaValar1: okies
ArPharazonV: perhaps you'd find more information in part 11, not 12
VardaValar1: Try that then ;-)
Aerandir V: all that re-invite stuff was my brother messing with AIM wen I was in another room, sorry
ArPharazonV: that one, I don't have with me right now ;-)
VardaValar1: np
ArPharazonV: let's see... we always have the oath between Eorl and... Cirion, was it?
ArPharazonV: that could provide an example, perhaps
Aerandir V: gotta go for a while
Aerandir V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie
Druidfalconwolf has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya1
Druidfalconwolf: aiya
ArPharazonV: what do you know about fealty in Tolkien? Elven fealty, if possible? ;-)
VardaValar1: They certainly had some form
VardaValar1: Finwe was their High King, and then they had to pick a new one
VardaValar1: It had to have mattered to them
VardaValar1: It's interesting to note that Elrond did not call himself a king, but a lord
VardaValar1: But he served no one higher
VardaValar1: Maybe he felt he was serving the king in Valinor?
VardaValar1: Celeborn and Galadriel called themselves Lord and Lady, saying it was in deference to the previous King and Queen
VardaValar1: Thranduil took the title of King in Greenwood, as it came down from his father, Oropher
VardaValar1: But Oropher took it on himself, uniting and elevating the Silvans he settled with
ArPharazonV: just like Gondor not taking a new king
VardaValar1: Aye, they awaited the return of the real king
VardaValar1: But who was Elrond waiting for?
ArPharazonV: a miracle?
VardaValar1: Maybe he felt he was waiting for Valinor
VardaValar1: As if he were not considering himself a permanent resident of M-e, which was true
ArPharazonV: hmm.... Gil-Galad was a High-elven king for over 3000 years.... you'd expect him to have at least one kid by then...
VardaValar1: But Thranduil intended to stay
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Now we need to do some book search : )
VardaValar1: Was Gil-galad married?
VardaValar1: We should ask Xseanzee disco there, our own Gil-galad ;-)
ArPharazonV: well, Gil-Galad was the last King, there is, as far as I know, nothing mentioned about an heir or anything
ArPharazonV: he passed his ring to somebody else, not his kid
VardaValar1: Good point
VardaValar1: He passed all of them over
VardaValar1: Cirdan, Elrond, and Galadriel
VardaValar1: Cirdan passed his to Gandalf
ArPharazonV: Galadriel already had one before Gil-Galad died, I think
VardaValar1: Gil-galad gave them personally, I think
ArPharazonV: and Gil-Galad gave the ring to Cirdan quite a long time before the Last Alliance, not because he was afraid to die
Druidfalconwolf: It said something about Celebrimbor giving Galadriel her ring though
VardaValar1: They were not passed on at his death but by hand
VardaValar1: Are you thinking of the Elessar, Druid?
ArPharazonV: might even have been as soon as he received the two rings, although there is some inconsistency about that
Druidfalconwolf: nope
ArPharazonV: but he gave Elrond his own ring, right before he went to Mordor
Druidfalconwolf: I might have read it Unfinished Tales, not the SIl
VardaValar1: Could you tell us the vicinity of where to look that up? UT maybe?
ArPharazonV: me? UT
Druidfalconwolf: let me get my book
VardaValar1: I remember two stories on her receiving the Elessar, one version from Celebrimbor and the other from Gandalf.
ArPharazonV: right
ArPharazonV: in the Gandalf-story, Gandalf brought the original one from Valinor
ArPharazonV: whence Earendel had borne it
ArPharazonV: in the second story, Celebrimbor made a 'replica'
ArPharazonV: hmm... just noticed the Bridge going down a while ago
ArPharazonV: 'System error in parse'
TheSirG3: ah
TheSirG3: which network Phar?
Druidfalconwolf: Umm... found it.
ArPharazonV: not working in Sigma
ArPharazonV: if that is what you meant
TheSirG3: there, should be working now?
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): ah, there we go
Druidfalconwolf: "But afterwards, Nenya, chief of the Three, was sent to her by Celebrimbor"
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): yup, working now
VardaValar1: That's UT?
Druidfalconwolf: yup
Druidfalconwolf: pg 263 in the Ballantine edition
VardaValar1: I see. In this version it shows a couple of fates of the rings in the first mention.
VardaValar1: Interesting. "They should have destroyed all the Rings of Power at this time but they failed to find the strength."
Druidfalconwolf: Heh
Druidfalconwolf: Excuse me for a minute.... my brother and his two puppies (which equal a natural disaster) have come to visit...
VardaValar1: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: Namarie, for now
Druidfalconwolf: Namarie, I'll get on later if I can (doubtful...)
ArPharazonV: ok then... still wanting to join the rp, btw?
VardaValar1: In this version, Galadriel is given Nenya from Celebrimbor and it affects her badly
VardaValar1: increasing her desire for the Sea and to return to Valinor.
VardaValar1: She suggests the other recipients
VardaValar1: So Celebrimbor gives the other rings to Gil-galad to remove them from Eregion
VardaValar1: In a version right after this one,
VardaValar1: backing up
VardaValar1: Gil-galad has two versions here
VardaValar1: Gil gave the red ring, Narya, to Cirdan, right then
VardaValar1: and in another version, Gil keeps it until he goes to the War of the Last Alliance.
ArPharazonV: right... that's what I meant with 'inconsistency' ;-)
VardaValar1: UT is not the final version, but interesting
Druidfalconwolf: back... disaster averted. The puppies didn't come along this time.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Congrats? :-)
Druidfalconwolf: lol
VardaValar1: Sil is not terribly helpful here
Druidfalconwolf: Christopher Tolkien noted in UT that the Galadriel-Celeborn stories have the most inconsistencies
ArPharazonV: aye, but they're still quite interesting
VardaValar1: Indeed! :-)
VardaValar1: The dwarves have a story that Durin's ring was given him directly by the elvensmiths
VardaValar1: not by Sauron
VardaValar1: Otherwise, the story seems that Sauron doled out the rings to the dwarves, etc to gain control over them, after taking them from Eregion.
VardaValar1: Of course, Gimli comes from the line of Durin : )
VardaValar1: On the Elessar, I rather like the story of Gandalf giving it to Galadriel, to give to Aragorn (hope) to show that the Valar have not abandoned M-e.
Druidfalconwolf: It also says that there are two Elessars in UT. Idril had one and passed it to Earendil.
ArPharazonV: right, that's the one Gandalf brought from Valinor
ArPharazonV: in the Gandalf-story, there is only one Elessar
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: In the Celebrimbor story, there are two
VardaValar1: The original and the replica
Druidfalconwolf: again, rather confusing... but interesting
VardaValar1: One must remember that these are notes, not intended for publishing by JRRT
VardaValar1: The notes are to show how the story progressed, the changes
VardaValar1: Sort of like a literary "Making of" :-)
VardaValar1: Strider was the hobbit, "Trotter"
ArPharazonV: right, but in this case, we don't know how it would have ended, what version would have survived
VardaValar1: After being turned into a man for the story, he was only Strider the ranger
VardaValar1: Then he was turned into the king.
ArPharazonV: so each version is of equal value, and each version can portray the 'real' story
VardaValar1: Right. Quite a few where we must guess which might have worked the best with the final LotR.
VardaValar1: But which would go best with the presented themes?
ArPharazonV: and what would have 'worked best' with lotr, is not necessarily Tolkien's favorite version
VardaValar1: The Celebrimbor story was a love story, but the Gandalf story works well with the LotR and is love of the Valar for M-e.
ArPharazonV: he radically changed the Hobbit after it was published, why not Lotr if his more complete back-stories didn't fully comply with lotr?
VardaValar1: His back-stories were very incomplete, in many ways
VardaValar1: He abandoned a lot of the stuff we see in them, as his vision changed
ArPharazonV: aye, but I'm just saying
VardaValar1: I too wish JRRT had the length of life of the Eldar : ) And yest
ArPharazonV: had there been a time in which they were completed to his best satisfaction
VardaValar1: Yes, he would probably have changed it
VardaValar1: That would never happen! Take it from me!
ArPharazonV: it would not have necessarily fitted in 100% with Lotr
ArPharazonV: in which case, he might have changed Lotr as he changed the Hobbit
VardaValar1: A writer continuously wants to tweak, to improve!
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar
VardaValar1: Maybe it's good that he had to stop and go to the West himself to let it have an ending.
VardaValar1: The LotR had to drop a lot of good stuff because it was hobbit-centric and concerned with the Ring.
ArPharazonV: besides, the fact that there are several versions, actually contributes something to its reality..
VardaValar1: The Sil was a tremendously shortened version of his notes.
ArPharazonV: in real history, not everything is known to be a single fact
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar!
VardaValar1: To the victors go the history books. ;-)
Druidfalconwolf: Exactly.
ArPharazonV: indeed
VardaValar1: The humans didn't have all the written records of the elves
VardaValar1: The elves didn't know everything going on
ArPharazonV: the 'unfinishedness' of his stories quite fit the real context, and sometimes even enlarge its meaning
VardaValar1: It makes it much like real history, and gives us much room to play in the mythology.
ArPharazonV: personally, for example the New Shadow, could not have been better if it was finished
VardaValar1: You can give ten versions and they might all work!
VardaValar1: JRRT didn't like the New Shadow
ArPharazonV: as it stands now, it shows it is never really finished, and that evil continues to come back... that there is no ending
VardaValar1: It was too much of just action, not enough with themes he enjoyed.
Druidfalconwolf: like the ending in the Sil
VardaValar1: But aye, Phar
ArPharazonV: the fact that he only wrote a small part of it is, IMO, its real power
VardaValar1: I completely agree, Phar. It implies so much more.
VardaValar1: The ending in the Sil. I'm looking at it. About the leaving of the ring-bearers?
VardaValar1: an end was come for the Eldar of story and of song.
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: I'll bet Thranduil had plenty going on
VardaValar1: and Legolas' colony
VardaValar1: and the twins in Rivendell.
VardaValar1: Imagine what they might have been like when Celeborn came to live with them.

ArPharazonV: oh, yes, now I'm reminded of my story which I left unfinished on my mother's laptop....
Druidfalconwolf: lol
ArPharazonV: 'Fall of the Ancients'
VardaValar1: Can you collect it from the laptop?
ArPharazonV: about the end of the Fourth Age
ArPharazonV: when the final realms of the Elves and Dwarves fail, and new peoples of the East, such as the Greeks etc, come to take over Middle-Earth
ArPharazonV: I wanted to be the final transition
ArPharazonV: the landscape changing and altering in a magnificent war
VardaValar1: Would you like to work on it now and then until you finish?
ArPharazonV: the final books and places of knowledge burning and being forgotten, except for a small vault only uncovered in our modern time, 3000 years later... by none other than Tolkien, of course :-)
ArPharazonV: it was to be the final chapter of the mythology...
ArPharazonV: who knows, I might get back to it
VardaValar1: Only if you put it where you can reach it ;-)
VardaValar1: Druid, pardon, but what is your guild name again?
Druidfalconwolf: Haleth
VardaValar1: ack
VardaValar1: I was just working on your story before the meeting!
Druidfalconwolf: lol
VardaValar1: It only has one spot where I need you to see if you can re-do it
Druidfalconwolf: ok
VardaValar1: Mostly it looks really good
VardaValar1: The guys especially should love your detail on the battle-scenes
VardaValar1: I enjoyed them :-)
VardaValar1: Nice characterization too!
Druidfalconwolf: haha
Druidfalconwolf: Guys are the same everywhere *rolls eyes*
VardaValar1: Do you do some real life medieval fighting?
ArPharazonV: so many things to do.. I still want to finish the Mendara Necklace as well...
Druidfalconwolf: :-P
VardaValar1: Go right ahead, Phar ;-)
Druidfalconwolf: Nope, I'm very weak and tiny, so I play music and write
VardaValar1: Sounds good : )
VardaValar1: We small folk can still use bows
ArPharazonV: heheh.... thousands of pages... just the general lines in my head... it's just the details I can't seem to work out
VardaValar1: Just lower poundage, set the aim higher ;-)
ArPharazonV: :-)
Druidfalconwolf: lol
VardaValar1: Fangorn shoots his arrows right down into the middle of the fletching. Not required!
VardaValar1: He needs more distant targets, but that's the farthest we had available
Druidfalconwolf: I prefer to write about such things... and delicate hands for piano :-P
VardaValar1: Or lower poundage
VardaValar1: We use longbows
ArPharazonV: 6 acts, each its own full story, and all part of one saga... but I'm rambling
VardaValar1: Ohh, piano
Druidfalconwolf: and cello
VardaValar1: You should not be bored, Phar. Plenty of writing to do!
VardaValar1: oh cool!
Druidfalconwolf: so.... fighting=not good idea:-P
Druidfalconwolf: anyway, have to leave for the dog walk.
VardaValar1: Get you and Meriadoc together
VardaValar1: We are pretty well done here anyway
ArPharazonV: indeed, plenty of writing.. and plenty of other stuff... I'll never get bored... but I'll never have time either
VardaValar1: *pets dog*
VardaValar1: Time is for bored people ;-)
ArPharazonV: heh
Druidfalconwolf: lol
Druidfalconwolf: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Druidfalconwolf has left the room.
VardaValar1: I will take time for a sunset though
VardaValar1: Very important
VardaValar1: Namarie for now : )
ArPharazonV: I have my whole life ahead of me... and yet I have the feeling I'll never be able to dedicate time to the stories without other things on my mind....
VardaValar1: I can smell the cake and steak the kids are making ;-)
VardaValar1: Each story should be given its chance to flower
VardaValar1: Give each thing its bit of time
ArPharazonV: so many dreams... such a short life...
ArPharazonV: I'm sad now
VardaValar1: You can schedule so that each thing has a time
VardaValar1: Don't waste the time : )
ArPharazonV: indeed, I can... I should...
ArPharazonV: I love making schedules, but I just never seem able to keep them
VardaValar1: Shift the schedule as needed, as long as the things are given time
VardaValar1: Use one thing as a reward for another
VardaValar1: I play WoW after doing something to "earn" it
VardaValar1: Then it does not have an ugly "guilt" factor.
ArPharazonV: rewards.. ha! I'm too lazy and too less disciplined to keep the reward-system in effect
VardaValar1: You can work it out
VardaValar1: You have time : )
VardaValar1: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: I hope :-)
TheSirG3 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
VardaValar1: Hope, aye
ArPharazonV: there is always hope
bnetValar has left the room.
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: ok, time to save