Valar Guild

January 2, 2005 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST
Back to News
Transcript team: Ar-Pharazon's transcript, Varda's webwork

Summary and contents:
Before-meeting:
    Collected Tolkien topics
Meeting Begins
Membership (128 current members)
    New full member: Imrahil-(V). Rejoined. He was the Amras previous to the current one. Not present at meeting.
    New Tolkien members: Maeglin-(TV) and Indis-(TV). Not present at meeting.
    Ulmo is coming over from EQ to WoW, with his son, Gothmog.
    Earendil has moved from EQ to WoW to the Lothar guild server. Using names Ardamire, Gelina. Not present at meeting.
Attending: (14)
    Aerandir, Arathorn, Ar-Pharazon, Caranthir/Morifinwe, Elladan/wolverinepcrew, Eonwe (presided when Varda crashed, yay Eonwe!), Finarfin, Gil-galad/Xseanzee disco, Grimbold/HearNoEvil80, Lungorthin/sauronjag, FarmerMaggot, Menelvagor, Olwe/FallenGlory, Ulmo/HeruRasa, Varda (presiding)  
Web:
    Domain opening page re-done for ease of most-used topics.
    Forum: New section for WoW trading, use guild password to enter.
    Games page: problem was with database. Switched back to using tables.
Gaming:
    WC3/TFT: considering re-start of Clan Vala branch of Valar Guild. Elladan offers hope.
    WoW:
       Guild funds: Eonwe's Kalasul is the money bank for guild on WoW/Lothar. Night Elf priest. Use WoW mail to make donations. If sent to Eonwe's Auros, label that it is for the guild treasury.
          Treasury report: 2 gold, 40 silver, 0 copper.
          Uses of guild funds:
             1: Bought charter for 10 silver. Yay us!
             2: Collecting gold to open tabard. 10 total needed
             3. Collecting gold to help characters buy a tabard. Each needs 1 gold.
             4. If a guild house is offered in the future, we can use the bank to help buy it.
             5. Decided not to subsidize professions. We will help in the usual friendly Valar manner and use the new Forum WoW trading post.
Tolkien:
    Army of the Dead. Ar-Pharazon's topic: In the books, Aragorn dismissed the Army of the Dead after they took the Corsair ships at Pelargir. Why didn't he keep them in his service as he did in the movie, to r-take Minas Tirith or even go after Barad-dur?
    Palantiri. Menelvagor's topic: Which of the palantiri Aragorn did, or nearly did, have access to. (This discussion did not make it into the transcript. Please send it to Varda for uploading if you have it!)

Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: Went for a cup of coffee
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Very important ;-)
ArPharazonV: I'm just starting the 4th commentary on Rotk ;-)
ArPharazonV: now in the Voice of Saruman
VardaValar1: You should have a ton of Tolkien topics for us then : )
ArPharazonV: you'd think that, wouldn't you ;-)
ArPharazonV: truth is, I had quite a few in the past week
ArPharazonV: and somehow, the nearer the meeting comes
VardaValar1: I've been going over stuff trying to figure out who did things showing interest in the guild so I don't have to attempt to email them.
VardaValar1: Ahh, jot them down!
VardaValar1: You have an hour until the meeting. One should still be left!
ArPharazonV: perhaps, perhaps....
ArPharazonV: mostly arising from the commentary, I suppose
VardaValar1: Think fast and jot it down here in the chat :-)
VardaValar1: Paper is good too
ArPharazonV: think, gotta think....
VardaValar1: I may be crashing out frequently. Hope your computer can handle a transcript?
VardaValar1: Just listen to the commentary you currently have running?
ArPharazonV: so do I... but if it does, be sure to receive one
VardaValar1: Thanks : )
ArPharazonV: np
ArPharazonV: do I ever miss one? ;-)
VardaValar1: I hope not!
VardaValar1: Pharazon the Golden Transcript Sender : )
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: hmm.... there could be the obvious 'why did they send away the army of the dead so soon'-matter....
VardaValar1: That is a good one.
ArPharazonV: if they waited for 3000 years, why couldn't they wait until the Pelennor Fields was over, like in the movie :-)
VardaValar1: *struggles to hold back until time for discussion*
ArPharazonV: haha
VardaValar1: *glrmph*
VardaValar1: Ok, toss in another when ready :-)
ArPharazonV: might help if you state the obvious now, so that it won't be done by 10 people all at once when it's brought up in the meeting :-)
ArPharazonV: but ok, next topic
VardaValar1: I want to let them state the obvious instead of me : )
VardaValar1: I can always hear myself yatter on : )
ArPharazonV: ok, a small Smeagol matter
VardaValar1: short joke
ArPharazonV: he hates lembas, Elven rope, the Sun, the Moon, etc... is that really all because of the Ring, or are their other causes as well?
VardaValar1: I keep hoping for articles to come out of these discussions, or stories and poems
ArPharazonV: he seems especially to have a hatred for Elvish stuff, he also avoids the cloaks
VardaValar1: ahh. Good new topic, never before chewed
VardaValar1: All that could be considered Elvish
ArPharazonV: indeed
VardaValar1: Specially hated
ArPharazonV: and there was a small matter which does not need to be discussed, but I was wondering...
ArPharazonV: I was looking for something in the books, but can't find the exact location
VardaValar1: Sounds familiar
ArPharazonV: where Frodo and Gandalf speak, and Gandalf says something like... what was it...
ArPharazonV: so do all who see such times. But it is our task to use the time that is given us.
ArPharazonV: something like that... can't recall the exact wording
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
FarmerMaggotV: can't stay for too long
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: Consider yourself counted, Farmer : )
ArPharazonV: happy new year :-)
VardaValar1: First thought is it's from Moria
ArPharazonV: aye, Moria, Bag End, or Rivendell.... but I can't actually find that piece in either section
ArPharazonV: and I was hoping you could give a more exact 'location', if you know what I mean
ArPharazonV: I thought it was after they talked about Gollum, and why Bilbo didn't slay him when he had the chance
ArPharazonV: which was in Moria in the movie, and Bag End in the book
ArPharazonV: but it isn't there...
VardaValar1: Another dig into the books : )
VardaValar1: Sounds fun
ArPharazonV: I'm just rereading TT... and not looking forward to carefully studying that which I have read not that long ago
ArPharazonV: it's getting up my nerves, really...
ArPharazonV: the section, that is, not the rereading, of course :-)
VardaValar1: Understood : )
ArPharazonV: also, a fourth matter... do you recall the song Pippin sang in Minas Tirith in the movie?
VardaValar1: I have to find the passage telling about Oropher's dislike of his Noldor heritage and it fell into a black hole
ArPharazonV: ah, right, remembering that discussion :-)
VardaValar1: Seems like it was taken from the books, not that Pippin sung it though
VardaValar1: What about it?
ArPharazonV: right, I heard in the commentaries that the words were indeed taken from the book
VardaValar1: Sounded familiar
ArPharazonV: but I started wondering where, and I don't recognize it in the verse-index
ArPharazonV: and indeed, Pippin was excused at singing in the book
VardaValar1: Right
VardaValar1: Sounded elvish though
ArPharazonV: what was it again... 'home behind, the world ahead'
ArPharazonV: and there are many paths to tread
VardaValar1: Got you both down on the 2005 Activity page
ArPharazonV: aye, I noticed... all in fancy green :-)
VardaValar1: That is the Road song, of Bilbo
VardaValar1: Now you are Phar the Green
VardaValar1: as being at the meeting
VardaValar1: Typing it in as we get people in
ArPharazonV: through shadow, to/through the edge of night...
VardaValar1: and all shall fade
ArPharazonV: until the stars are all alight....
VardaValar1: I guess the fading is what made me think of elves too
ArPharazonV: mist and shadow, cloud and shade...
ArPharazonV: and all shall fade...
ArPharazonV: and all shall fade
VardaValar1: Could get goosebumps from that
FarmerMaggotV: heh, either of you ever read Jeffery Deaver's books?
ArPharazonV: with the background music behind it, the high tones going even higher...
FarmerMaggotV: they're quite good (detective type stuff)
ArPharazonV: and Faramir approaching Osgiliath...
VardaValar1: Afraid not, Farmer
ArPharazonV: nope, me neither
FarmerMaggotV: ah, they're quite good -> the detective is a quadgraplegic.... good stuff
VardaValar1: Could give it a mention on the forum under Other Authors
ArPharazonV: a... quadgraplegic?
VardaValar1: Hey, I've heard of that character
VardaValar1: Lost all four limbs
ArPharazonV: ouch
FarmerMaggotV: hm, not the same. He's simply paralyzed
VardaValar1: Worse for humans than ents
ArPharazonV: just head and torso
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
VardaValar1: Ok, lost to paralysis
VardaValar1: Bad but somehow seems a tad less so : )
ArPharazonV: I saw a man on tv recently, who was paralyzed below the neck
FarmerMaggotV: Just finished reading this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743222008/002-9183681-4822419?v=glance
VardaValar1: Chris Reeve and many others
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, I would imagine it'd be awful being that way
ArPharazonV: he became a photographer
ArPharazonV: had this neat little device where he could zoom in and stuff using blowing signals
VardaValar1: "The Vanished Man"
VardaValar1: Amazing : )
ArPharazonV: sounds cool
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, quite the twisty plot hehe
ArPharazonV: hmm... I remember seeing Faramir charge at Osgiliath in the movie, and thinking 'no way this was in the book'
ArPharazonV: and this week, checking back for that song, I found it was indeed in the book...
VardaValar1: Osgiliath just was not so close
sauronjag has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: aye, that was true
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
sauronjag: heya :-)
VardaValar1: Could not invite you as raukojag, tried it first
ArPharazonV: on another note, I spent last night playing a few Tolkien-maps in war3
VardaValar1: Good ones?
ArPharazonV: Battle of Gondor, truly an amazing map
sauronjag: I have to go to my grandmas house here in a second after I take a shower.. surprised you caught me this is inbetween I just got home from my gf's house! she's been over the last week and I just brought her back.. web news: I got....
VardaValar1: That is good for Gaming news section
sauronjag: your email and I can get it done soon
VardaValar1: Wonderful : )
ArPharazonV: me, being lightblue the first time, was Gandalf and Pippin, as well as Frodo and Sam
FarmerMaggotV: well, I better go before I get caught, namarie!
VardaValar1: Maeglin-(TV) will be happy
VardaValar1: Namarie!!
ArPharazonV: Namarie
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
sauronjag: namarie
sauronjag: I'll stay in the chat so I can take a look later :-)
VardaValar1: Great : )
ArPharazonV: and while Fro and Sam were just out of the Emyn Muil, the Orcs were already in Ithilien ready to charge at Osgiliath, at the very beginning
ArPharazonV: and I tried to get through, but there was no way I could go through alive
VardaValar1: So you went through undead? ;-)
ArPharazonV: so I left them be for a while, and when Gondor was being overrun, I was glad to find Ithilien quite empty
ArPharazonV: so I rushed through, and into Shelob's Lair...
ArPharazonV: Shelob was easy, but by the time I reached Mount Doom it was too late... Minas Tirith was overrun, and there was no way I could finish the errand safely
ArPharazonV: but anyway, my point was...
ArPharazonV: I noticed, that if Frodo and Sam had just spent a few more days in the Emyn Muil for example, or the Fellowship even left Lorien a few days later
ArPharazonV: they would never have gotten through Ithilien, for it would already be swarming with enemies probably
ArPharazonV: amazing how it all depended on a matter of days, after staying in Lorien for an entire month...
VardaValar1: They still walked into a battle in Ithlien
ArPharazonV: right, they did
ArPharazonV: but if they had come later, there would have been no battle
VardaValar1: Faramir's men were all around them and took them to safety
ArPharazonV: and the Rangers would have been forced to abandon Ithilien before Fro and Sam got there
ArPharazonV: Ithilien rangers that is, not the Northern Dunedain :-)
VardaValar1: They would have come after the battle, aye
VardaValar1: hehe - that's a duh
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Have you been checking out the Tolkien trivia on the Forum?
ArPharazonV: timing is quite important in the Lord of the Rings, though the companions often have no way of communicating, letting them know where they are...
ArPharazonV: and yet if Aragorn had arrived just a little bit earlier at the Black Gate, the battle would have been lost before Fro and Sam got to Mount Doom...
VardaValar1: Very true, Phar. JRRT had to work hard to have even the moonrises and moonsets work out for the timing
VardaValar1: Valar hand?
ArPharazonV: aye, Valar, Eru, fate, that could be the only explanation, really
VardaValar1: JRRT seemed to me to be trying to circumspectly say that the Valar had not abandoned Middle-earth
VardaValar1: Very subtle stuff everywhere
ArPharazonV: oh, have you read the history of Lotr yet? 6 to 9 of the History of ME?
VardaValar1: Don't have it all. Had hoped for more at Christmas, but it will come : )
ArPharazonV: somewhere I remember it being said that Shadowfax took five months from Weathertop to Rohan... quite strange
VardaValar1: I really want Peoples and Morgoth's Ring
ArPharazonV: probably the biggest timing-plothole Lotr had
ArathornValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Have to remember JRRT was always tweaking it. Was his life's hobby : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Lungorthin is away from home, left a holder so he could scroll later
ArPharazonV: well, I guess I have introduced a big topic today... timing in Tolkien
VardaValar1: Glutton for punishment, that White Demon ; )
VardaValar1: Sending Aragorn through the Paths of the Dead was a must
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: army of the dead was quite useful
FallenGlory has entered the room.
VardaValar1: And the Rangers and twins
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
FallenGlory: Hey
ArathornValar: hmm sparse room today :-P
VardaValar1: Olwe, do you have WoW yet? : )
FallenGlory: No, looks like that's gonna have to come out of my own pocket after all :-(
VardaValar1: Aye. I think all are gone for Christmas or gaming
VardaValar1: Ouch
FallenGlory: sometime in the next couple of weeks or so
VardaValar1: Oh cool : )
VardaValar1: We are very close to having a branch there now
FallenGlory: Right on
FallenGlory: several of my friends are quite obsessed with the game
VardaValar1: Bilbo is on WoW, says only sees Arathorn there
VardaValar1: Any of them good for the guild? : )
VardaValar1: We need to be more active in recruiting
FallenGlory: Well, one is a pretty big tolkien fan
ArathornValar: Obsessed?? OBSESSED!? The devil you say! <I've now actually been having dreams about it :-P>
FallenGlory: LOL
VardaValar1: hehe
FallenGlory: However, most of my friends from around this town take to the cruder, more swear-laden form of playing games
ArathornValar: I actually dreamt my Warlock gal could wield 2 staves at once.. <eek!>
VardaValar1: How about the one Tolkien fan?
ArathornValar: er.. AND float
FallenGlory: You know, the kind where you insult people randomly who pull of something that ticks you off :-)
VardaValar1: It's wish fulfillment, Arathorn : )
FallenGlory: Erm, yeah, I'm afraid he falls into that boat too
ArPharazonV: oh, remember me seeing a few Tolkien-names in TFT?
VardaValar1: ah well
VardaValar1: How did you get to be so nice, Olwe? : )
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar
FallenGlory: I've often asked myself that question :-D
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe!
ArPharazonV: I met them again several times this week, and talked to them about the guild
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: but they're already in their own clan/guild
Eonwe Valar: Heya all and Happy New Year
VardaValar1: So? : )
VardaValar1: We take people in other guilds
ArPharazonV: Defenders of Gondolin, or Warriors of Gondolin, something like that
VardaValar1: Their other guilds tend to collapse soon and we have them to ourselves
VardaValar1: Happy New Year, Eonwe : )
FallenGlory: You'll all have to excuse me now and again, I'm sort of flipping between watching football and sitting on the comp
FallenGlory: so if I randomly go AFK
ArPharazonV: Happy new year
FallenGlory: it's probably because I'm yelling at the TV
VardaValar1: no problem : )
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
Aerandir V: aiya
Aerandir V: happy new year
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Happy New Year : )
ArPharazonV: and a glorious 2005 to you :-)
VardaValar1: Aerandir, did you wind up with WoW?
VardaValar1: World of WarCraft?
VardaValar1: Guess he came and went afk, heh
VardaValar1: I did that, ran out for coffee
VardaValar1: Let's start
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VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Membership News:
Aerandir V: I dont have WoW
VardaValar1: On the full Members page, we show 128
VardaValar1: Thanks, Aerandir : )
Aerandir V: it looked good while reading about it , then I got to the monthly fee part
VardaValar1: Understood. Feel free to play ones with no monthly : )
VardaValar1: D2X is still active
VardaValar1: Anyway, about members
VardaValar1: We are in the process of removing disinterested members now
VardaValar1: Everyone has the chance to email or use the Forum to say they are still interested, or the meeting, until the end of January
VardaValar1: Then we get to re-test to return : )
VardaValar1: Re-test as often as you can find a tester
ArPharazonV: Caranthir... Morifinwe... he's in black
ArPharazonV: I see him from time to time under the name 'add' in War3
ArPharazonV: I'll ask him if he's still interested
VardaValar1 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: He'll need to contact Varda directly, so please tell him to do so
Eonwe Valar: or use the other methods named, such as the Forum
ArPharazonV: ok, I will
ArPharazonV: as soon as I see him
Eonwe Valar: I don't know if Varda had anything else to add to that for the sweep.
ArPharazonV: brb, making an rp post
Eonwe Valar: But she can have a chance when she gets back. In the mean time I'll forge ahead.
ArPharazonV: not our rp, though
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
Eonwe Valar: We have a new member this week.
Eonwe Valar: Actually, a returning member
Eonwe Valar: He was an Amras before our current one. He is now Imrahil
Eonwe Valar: Apparently he played WoW
Eonwe Valar: *played=plays
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya. Sorry, network crashed
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, was inviting Varda back
VardaValar1: Thanks : )
Eonwe Valar: Your chair again Varda :}
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
VardaValar1: Did I miss anything?
Eonwe Valar: I announced Imrahil
VardaValar1: Yay! Thanks!
ArPharazonV: I will try to contact Morifinwe in bnet, and ask him to contact you
Eonwe Valar: and reminded that members will need to contact you directly or through Forum to indicate they're interested. That's it
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: Imrahil used to be the Amras before the current one
VardaValar1: Earendil has moved from EQ to WoW
VardaValar1: Ulmo and Gothmog plan to buy WoW and join us as well
VardaValar1: We are moving closer to filling in the charter, as soon as we can get them together
HeruRasa has entered the room.
VardaValar1: We also have two new Tolkien-only members
VardaValar1: Aiya!!
VardaValar1: Ulmo!
VardaValar1: You are our Ulmo-(Valar)?
HeruRasa: aIYA ALL
HeruRasa: yes
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: can't be,.. Ulmo doesn't make mistakes with caps :}
VardaValar1: It is so good to have you back : )
VardaValar1: But he does correct himself : )
VardaValar1: Would you like to say a few words of introduction to the members here who do not know you yet?
HeruRasa: hmmm
VardaValar1: Hi works ;-)
HeruRasa: kinda used to chat in EQ :-)
VardaValar1: Now that is modest
VardaValar1: Helped make the guild, and so on : )
VardaValar1: Wonderful friend, good to have at your back, hard-working : )
HeruRasa: good to be back
VardaValar1: We were in the Membership section, well-timed : )
VardaValar1: Two new Tolkien-only members:
VardaValar1: Indis and Maeglin
VardaValar1: Indis came in with her poem and Maeglin with a book review
VardaValar1: Lungorthin says he will have the review up soon
VardaValar1: Any other Member news?
VardaValar1: And hi to Gothmog and Elanor : )
VardaValar1: Eowyn and Bilbo say hi
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VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: The Valar Guild splash page has been redone slightly for ease of use
VardaValar1: News and Forum should be easier to jump into
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org
VardaValar1: Question for you all:
VardaValar1: On the Forum, would you like me to go back to posting our Tolkien chat topics for later chewing?
VardaValar1: It is okay to go back and consider old Tolkien topics if you have new info, as Tolkien is nevre old : )
VardaValar1: Comments anyone?
Eonwe Valar: I say go for it :}
VardaValar1: Bless you
VardaValar1: Was about to table it : )
VardaValar1: Anyone else yay or nay?
VardaValar1: *All afk*
ArPharazonV: sure, yay
VardaValar1: Ah, thanks
ArPharazonV: I'll look forward to it :-)
VardaValar1: Any further Web news?
ArPharazonV: and btw... the rp is not really getting along, eh?
VardaValar1: I was waiting for someone besides me to post
VardaValar1: I can run us past this section of the rp if you prefer
VardaValar1: Cut it short
ArPharazonV: well, seeing as I won't be in it for a while, as I said
VardaValar1: That is the Tolkien role-play game in the Forum, text. We can use some more joining it
VardaValar1: ok
ArPharazonV: I don't think it's up to me to help decide that
VardaValar1: Eonwe, any web news?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, a bit
VardaValar1: Please tell us :-)
Eonwe Valar: I spent most of this week working on setting up the Games Page using databases, but at every turn it appears it'll take more work than just doing it the old way
VardaValar1: Ouch
Eonwe Valar: So, I'll have the Games Page up this week, doing it the old way (plugging names and info into the table slots)
Eonwe Valar: I'd like to remind anyone who didn't send anyhting in during the Games Page update to do so.
Eonwe Valar: That does it for me.
VardaValar1: Thanks Eonwe, for the info and your hard work
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VardaValar1: Gaming News:
ArPharazonV: indeed
ArPharazonV: sorry, go on
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you said you had some?
Eonwe Valar: Aye
Eonwe Valar: First, as everyone has hopefully seen by the announcements made, the WC3 branch is dead.
ArPharazonV: alas, yes, I've witnessed it
MoriFinwe has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: That doesn't mean we can't still get together to play WC3, though.
MoriFinwe: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
ArPharazonV: actually, I witnessed almost the exact point where the branch went down
ArPharazonV: I logged in, and came into the clan-channel
Eonwe Valar: We still have the WC3 section of our Forum to get in touch with eachother
MoriFinwe: 2nd day of searching for wow no luck.......
ArPharazonV: when I went out, and back in a few hours later, I ended up in my national channel when I pressed alt c...
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you had some more to say?
Eonwe Valar: But this should show that we can't keep a branch up and running without the membership taking an active interest in keeping it alive. For WC3 we just didn't have enough.
ArPharazonV: I'm keeping my account open, although I have been invited by at least one group to join in clan-making...
MoriFinwe: By my clan :-)
ArPharazonV: still having (vain?) hope that we can get a productive branch together again in the future
ArPharazonV: and by others too :-)
Eonwe Valar: Well, that's up to the membership, Phar.
Eonwe Valar: I also have some some WoW news.
VardaValar1 has left the room.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Network crashed again, sorry
Eonwe Valar: We are already in the process of setting up Guild funds in WoW. So far, we have 2 gold and 40 silver.
HeruRasa: prolly can't transfer EQ PP? :-)
Eonwe Valar: These funds so far are to provide a new charter (if this one should be eaten) and guild tabards for members.
Eonwe Valar: It would also pay for Guild housing if and when this feature becomes available.
VardaValar1: We wish, Ulmo : )
ArPharazonV: I'll be happy to donate... once I get the game ;-)
Eonwe Valar: If we may take just a couple of minutes (so as not to consume the rest of the meeting), I'd like some ideas on where else this money can be used.
ArPharazonV: but at least part of my doubt vs WoW has been taken away, so that's good news
VardaValar1: We may need it to help train up a few special skill folk
VardaValar1: To help the guild as a whole
Eonwe Valar: I've considered subsidizing our professions, but most of what they need is found in the wild.
VardaValar1: especially on Battlegrounds, or just to help
ArPharazonV: I mentioned the idea of the game, with monthly fee and all, to my dad... he didn't have anything to say against it, and my biggest fear was having my parents being against it
ArPharazonV: so now I'm getting more sure of buying it eventually :-)
HeruRasa: I will be on WoW very shortly, I was a tradeskill fanatic in EQ, I'm sure I will want a trade in WoW as well
ArPharazonV: but anyway, good goals for the money....
ArPharazonV: seeing as we will do many quests together, the results of questing may be a good goal for shared money
Eonwe Valar: So, you suggest using to train certain characters, Varda?
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: such as repairing equipment which was damaged in some sort of guild-event
VardaValar1: I know they did in DaoC, don't know how great an idea it is
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad
Xseanzee disco: Hellooooo
ArPharazonV: I can't help you with tradeskills yet, still have to decide what my characters are going to professionalize in
Eonwe Valar: If we did that, they would have to be characters often on and at the availability of members, I'd say.
HeruRasa: funding some members in trades may seem good for the guild, but in EQ it often led to feelings of favoritism
VardaValar1: That seems like a likely consequence
VardaValar1: Good point, Eonwe
VardaValar1: So we can just help each other in the normal Valar way : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, and I want to encourage a strong economy within the Guild in WoW.
HeruRasa: shared accounts Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: Shared accounts?
HeruRasa: accounts many have access to logging on
Eonwe Valar: Would only work if the people weren't trying to play at the same time
VardaValar1: We have not yet seen the need of it. Might in the future. We do that in D2X
VardaValar1: Currently we have a bank money character, handled by Auros, called Kalasul
Eonwe Valar: and someone would have to be willing to spend the $16 for an account that would really be played.
VardaValar1: We email him the extra money
Eonwe Valar: *wouldn't
HeruRasa: I found in EQ that serious trade-skillers do it for the fun, and in a guild are willing to share their skill for others
VardaValar1: That sounds more like a comfortable way of doing things, more what we are used to, HeruRasa
HeruRasa: trade-skills in WoW use looted materials to make equipment?
Eonwe Valar: aye
Eonwe Valar: we can get leather silk, and sometimes even metal off of bodies
Eonwe Valar: these can also be taken from mines or skinned from animals
HeruRasa: we can still share these materials then for all, and the skill trades-people making the items
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: And we have been doing that. Has worked well so far
Eonwe Valar: On that note, I'll be adding a "Trading" Board to the WoW section of the Forum tonight
VardaValar1: Yay!
VardaValar1: I would like to see which things like hides or linen people most need, and who to "mail" them to
Eonwe Valar: This is so you can pass on those non-soulbound items, or to offer your services as a tailor, blacksmith, etc to other members
VardaValar1: The mail system cuts a lot of need for banks out : )
Eonwe Valar: I'll say this in the opening post as well, but if you offer to make something, let people know if you have the ingredients (hopefully) or if there is a part that needs supplied.
Eonwe Valar: For example, I'll may a big bronze dagger if anyone wants one, but I need a medium leather for each
Eonwe Valar: may=make
Eonwe Valar: as in, the pattern requires a medium leather
VardaValar1: Aye, I skin all the time, even have to trash some leather
Eonwe Valar: I've got everything else, until I run out, hehe
Eonwe Valar: This is where working together comes into play, I'd say :}
Eonwe Valar: This board will also be password protected, using the Guild password. Make sure you all go back through your e-mails and get it :}
MoriFinwe: oops lol
MoriFinwe: gonna have to find that
VardaValar1: Or you can email me for it : )
VardaValar1: varda.elentari@gmail.com
Eonwe Valar: Aye, if all else fails, you better ask Vard a:}
ArPharazonV: password... password... thank god I have a special folder for all my personal mail
VardaValar1: I am your contact for everything, and can forward very well ;-)
Eonwe Valar: These topics and more are coming to a Forum near you
VardaValar1: hehe, thanks Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: For WoW, it will be important to attend meetings and/or visit the Forum, so make sure you do at least one of those.
ArPharazonV: hmm... interesting
Eonwe Valar: Both preferred :}
ArPharazonV: I just found an email from Varda, but it seems I hadn't opened it yet
ArPharazonV: it's from the beginning of 2004...
ArPharazonV: no, end 2003
ArPharazonV: 20-12
wolverinepcrew has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
wolverinepcrew: Aiya
wolverinepcrew
: talkitive group :-)
ArPharazonV: you said you hadn't seen me in a while, missed my active voice in the chat (belated: Thank you!), and told me what to do to gain entrance to the AIM meetings :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
wolverinepcrew: I hear that Clan Vala is dead on WC3
VardaValar1
: Sorry, we were talking a lot. now in several talking windows
VardaValar1: Members all wandered away from WC3 it appeared
Eonwe Valar: It is. Not enough members were active to keep it alive
VardaValar1: We can revive the branch if ten are interested
MoriFinwe: most i ever saw on at one time is 5
wolverinepcrew: Leaders were never on really
ArPharazonV
: ok, found the password... and I won't forget it again for a while :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Elladan. How many does LoKD have on at once?
wolverinepcrew: usually around 6 or so
wolverinepcrew
: members have gone to WoW
MoriFinwe
: around 12 it is 7 or so
VardaValar1: Sounds familiar
Eonwe Valar: Leaders were on at least often enough to keep the branch alive :}
wolverinepcrew: and some of them come on just to see when i will be transferring over to WoW
Eonwe Valar
: bah, phone
VardaValar1: heh - know that feeling
wolverinepcrew has left the room.
VardaValar1: WoW has a good chance to bring our scattered members together again
wolverinepcrew has entered the room.
wolverinepcrew: sry i turned the comp off wit my foot on accident
VardaValar1: hehe - beats network going down
HeruRasa: Everyone has to choose games to play for themselves, but what pulled me away from Valar before was that people went too many ways. I personally hope everyone chooses WoW. I dont know that it is better than any other game, but it i
wolverinepcrew: my members seem to be staying together
VardaValar1: And I thought you were just addicted to EQ : )
HeruRasa: I still will be playing EQ some for now.
wolverinepcrew: ill be glad to help out the guild on wow tho
VardaValar1: Thank you. All help is much appreciated
VardaValar1: We will have to drop our EQ account soon to let us pay for WoW, but haven't yet
wolverinepcrew: who will be leading the guild on WoW?
VardaValar1: Eonwe
VardaValar1: I will help
VardaValar1: And many others will help
wolverinepcrew: will he be active?
VardaValar1: I will be : )
VardaValar1: He will try to be
VardaValar1: We have others who are very active
Eonwe Valar: back
wolverinepcrew: because i am concerned with some of the members being dedicated enough to lead
VardaValar1: I have a family that I share the comp with and one of us is nearly always on
VardaValar1: Bilbo is currently on
VardaValar1: as Billboh
VardaValar1: We take about 4 hour turns
VardaValar1: And you can catch one of us for nearly anything
VardaValar1: You can make suggestions also, in WoW, forum, meeting, email
VardaValar1: AIm
Eonwe Valar: Even when I am not in a game, I'm involved through the Forum and e-mails with other council, and regularly attend meetings
wolverinepcrew: If you would like me to revive Vala on wc3 i could get it back up
VardaValar1: We tend to go into games after or during meetings
VardaValar1: We have AIM up in the background of WoW
VardaValar1: Thus we can be here in the meeting and in WoW
ArPharazonV: we don't have enough members interested in wc3 at this point to keep up the branch, I think...
VardaValar1: One of our membership problems is we don't take just anyone
wolverinepcrew: yes i no
ArPharazonV: perhaps just you, me, and Mori...
ArPharazonV: don't often see anybody else
wolverinepcrew: many of my ring wars friends could easily past your test and i could probably get about 4 members that will be dedicated and active
VardaValar1: When Irmo was almost constantly on DAoC and gaming, it did not save the DAoC group
ArPharazonV: ring wars? you play that a lot, don't you?
ArPharazonV: do you ever see a Hurin Thalion (with a 7 somewhere in that name)?
wolverinepcrew: its dying with WoW but my clan is spreading it
wolverinepcrew: yes ive seen him
ArPharazonV: I've talked to him and a few of his friends with Tolkien-names, also in lotr games
wolverinepcrew: yea i could get wotj and last alliance players too probably
ArPharazonV: they have their own clan now, but, should it fail, do you think they'd be suitable for the guild?
VardaValar1: A big difference between our EQ and DAoC attempts is we will have a much bigger leadership support
wolverinepcrew: once i hit lvl 10 on coh im startin up my clan
wolverinepcrew: hmm
wolverinepcrew: hurin is a horrible player but a very nice guy and he seems to know a lot about lotr
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
Eonwe Valar: OK, take comments on other players to private messages
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
ArPharazonV: yeah, I agree... well, I couldn't say anything about horrible play... I'm pretty bad myself :-)
wolverinepcrew: lol
VardaValar1: If the two of you are going to talk non-Valar please take it to private message
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Any other gaming news?
wolverinepcrew: CoH is supporting a rather large community of lotr fans
VardaValar1: We have a dozen windows going at any one time : )
VardaValar1: Code of Honor you mean, not a guild?
wolverinepcrew: City of Heroes
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: Alphabet soup around here
wolverinepcrew: lol indeed
wolverinepcrew: a warning ahead of time
VardaValar1: Are you considering a Valar branch there too? Getting spread too thin
wolverinepcrew: me in the guild is a very hmmm change
VardaValar1: In what way?
wolverinepcrew: i was settin up lokd on CoH
wolverinepcrew: i tend to have a big mouth when gaming
VardaValar1: Then control it with us : )
wolverinepcrew: im very critical
VardaValar1: Try to remember chivalry here, you can do it
VardaValar1: These people are worth your kindness
VardaValar1: Tell us how we can improve, but gently : )
VardaValar1: We can learn
wolverinepcrew: when we used to have clan matches in rw i used to get my players to play their best by tellin them improve or stop playin
wolverinepcrew: most of them improved greatly in under a week
VardaValar1: That is the stick method
wolverinepcrew: i do not let slackers in my clan
VardaValar1: With us, mostly not needed
wolverinepcrew: if ur not gonna give ur time to the clan ur not gonna be in the clan
VardaValar1: If you cannot work with us, you are not required to stay. It is voluntary
wolverinepcrew: im new to mmorpg's so i shouldn't be to bad
VardaValar1: We can help
VardaValar1: You have not been around us much, so we don't know if you're a slacker, but we trust not : )
wolverinepcrew: i haven't been around b/c i was rather disappointed in the leadership on WC3
VardaValar1: Anyway, is there further gaming news?
wolverinepcrew: i saw no dedication
VardaValar1: You didn't recognize it
VardaValar1: Did you come to the Saturday get togethers?
Eonwe Valar: I don't recall ever recieving an e-mail from you, Elladan
VardaValar1: Eonwe sent out WC3 emails regularly trying to get people together
wolverinepcrew: i did not give my email address
VardaValar1: Maybe we need your email again?
wolverinepcrew: sotyrules@yahoo.com
VardaValar1: We also posted to News and Forum
VardaValar1: No one is required to give their email
ArPharazonV: uhm... Saturday get togethers?
wolverinepcrew: lol
MoriFinwe: i got my comp reformatted and i have over 2000 msgs on my email i have been to lazy to start reading
wolverinepcrew: obviously it didn't work out to well
VardaValar1: I'll let Eonwe tell about that if he likes : )
ArPharazonV: was I around by that time?
Eonwe Valar: We did have them in an official manner, including some WC3 news, but at most 3-4 people showed up.
wolverinepcrew: lol
VardaValar1: Caranthir, you might try trashing them and starting clean : )
wolverinepcrew: any members playin bfme?
ArathornValar: well, I'm off folks. Haven't had much sleep and have an early day tomorrow. Take care all!
MoriFinwe: i am but u know that
Menelvagor Valar: nope
VardaValar1: Namarie
MoriFinwe: Namarie
ArathornValar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Since no one showed up, the Saturday time was left as a chance to get together for gaming.
ArPharazonV: well... I've been playing a bfme map in war3 :-)
MoriFinwe: bfme = Battle for Middle Earth
ArPharazonV: I know, I know
MoriFinwe: Does WoW require a very good comp to run?
VardaValar1: Pretty good, yes
HeruRasa: proly
VardaValar1: Check the official site for details
MoriFinwe: i dont know any of my details
MoriFinwe: so im hoping it works
VardaValar1: We meet every Sunday at 5pm EST. We generally game during and after
VardaValar1: We also game and talk a lot all the time, but this is an actual get-together for all games and Tolkien-onlies
VardaValar1: Speaking of Tolkien...
ArPharazonV: well, that doesn't sound good to me, at this point... I doubt my pc could handle switching back and forth between AIM and WoW
VardaValar1: Shall we move on to Tolkien topics?
VardaValar1: Do you have further news or comments needed first?
VardaValar1: Anyone?
VardaValar1: As for dedicated leadership, we've had a meeting every Sunday for over seven years
VardaValar1: Ok, Business Meeting over
top:

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: We came up with a batch of topics before the meeting : )
VardaValar1: Tried to hold off and wait for the rest of you, very hard : )
ArPharazonV: which one do you want to go through first? :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: In order:
MoriFinwe: i gtg get rdy for a movie
VardaValar1: The Army of the Dead. In the books and movie, they were different
MoriFinwe: Namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie
VardaValar1: Have fun
ArPharazonV: Namarie
ArPharazonV: what movie?
MoriFinwe: Lemeny Snicket
VardaValar1: They were dismissed at different times
ArPharazonV: have fun
MoriFinwe: i will
MoriFinwe: hope so
ArPharazonV: :-)
MoriFinwe has left the room.
VardaValar1: Why was the army of the dead sent away after taking the corsair ships in the books?
Aerandir V: I thought they were described as zombies in the book, not ghosts
VardaValar1: In the movie, PJ seemed to think they should not be sent away until after taking Minas Tirith. Some say they should have remained until Sauron was removed
VardaValar1: They were ghosts
VardaValar1: "shades of men"
Aerandir V: they diddn't seem very cooperative
VardaValar1: Why did they cooperate?
ArPharazonV: so that Aragorn would release them from their oath
Aerandir V: gotta go...
VardaValar1: Aye, and they could depart
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: but if they waited 3000 years... couldn't they just have gone that short distance to Minas Tirith as well?
Aerandir V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Nam... too late
VardaValar1: He can see your namarie in the transcript : )
ArPharazonV: in that case: ...arie!
Eonwe Valar: It's a matter of honor. As I recall, Aragorn said "help us do this , and I'll hold your oaths fullfilled."
VardaValar1: For those who do not know, we keep a transcript of each meeting on the News
VardaValar1: True
VardaValar1: He could have said, help until Sauron was destroyed
Eonwe Valar: Aye, then the Oathbreakers would've marched on Barad-Dur :}
VardaValar1: Interesting
VardaValar1: Think Sauron would have turned them to his side?
HeruRasa: if they were motivated enough to go that far
Eonwe Valar: might not have wanted to wait arund for the men of Gondor to muster their forces though.
ArPharazonV: aye, perhaps.... but the battle of MT was not that far away, neither in place nor time
wolverinepcrew: when did mori leave?
ArPharazonV: at the beginning of the topic
VardaValar1: He said he was going to a movie. Scroll back
HeruRasa: scroll up :-)
ArPharazonV: went to see a movie
VardaValar1: As soon as we went to Tolkien
wolverinepcrew: o shoot i thought he was pickin me up
ArPharazonV: Lemeny Snicket...
wolverinepcrew: hmmm
VardaValar1: Maybe he is
wolverinepcrew: well i better go
ArPharazonV: whatever that may be
wolverinepcrew: i look forward to rejoining the ranks
VardaValar1: It's a movie based on a children's book series
wolverinepcrew: indeed
wolverinepcrew: we kids at heart
VardaValar1: Good to see you. You were not yet removed
VardaValar1: but were about to be
wolverinepcrew: i saw the list :-D
wolverinepcrew: main reason i came to this meeting
VardaValar1: ah good : )
wolverinepcrew: i have new aim tho
VardaValar1: Thanks for coming
wolverinepcrew: bior the ythling
wolverinepcrew: i forgot to inform the guild
VardaValar1: Could you make one with Elladan in it, so we can tell who you are?
wolverinepcrew: namarie
VardaValar1: Thanks
wolverinepcrew: k
VardaValar1: We are now informed
wolverinepcrew has left the room.
ArPharazonV: hmm.. I found a quote
HeruRasa: afk a few
ArPharazonV: 'Oathbreakers, why have ye come?'
ArPharazonV: 'To fulfil our oath and have peace.'
ArPharazonV: 'The hour is come at last. Now I go to Pelargir upon Anduin, and ye shall come after me. And when all this land is clean of the servants of Sauron, I will hold the oath fulfilled, and ye shall have peace and depart for ever.
ArPharazonV: For I am Elessar, Isildur's heir of Gondor.'
ArPharazonV: interesting detail...
ArPharazonV: 'when all this land is clean of the servants of Sauron'
VardaValar1: aye
VardaValar1: Well said
ArPharazonV: would that not imply fighting at least until Minas Tirith was over?
VardaValar1: Good loophole to forgive PJ
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: So, why do you guys think they were released after taking the ships?
ArPharazonV: one explanation would be that there wasn't enough room on the ships :-D
VardaValar1: hehehe
ArPharazonV: with all the Grey Company there and all
VardaValar1: How much room does a ghost need?
ArPharazonV: another that the Dead were afraid of sailing :-D:-D
VardaValar1: They can all stand on the same spot
Eonwe Valar: Floating room
VardaValar1: ahh good there
VardaValar1: Ghosts in mythology, even the ringwraiths, did not like to cross water
ArPharazonV: they did cross water, though, didn't they enter the ships at first?
VardaValar1: They came from the shore
VardaValar1: Terrified the sailors to jump overboard, hurt themselves
ArPharazonV: 'To every ship that was drawn up, and then they passed over the water to those that were anchored; and all the mariners were filled with a madness and terror and leaped overboard, save the slaves chained to the oars.'
FINARFIN010 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: ahh, good
VardaValar1: Aiya Finarfin : )
ArPharazonV: *to every ship they came that was drawn up
FINARFIN010: Aiya all :-)
VardaValar1: They passed over the water
ArPharazonV: aye
VardaValar1: We were considering why JRRT had the ghosts depart after taking the ships
FINARFIN010: well i am late again.
ArPharazonV: pretty hard to board an enemy ship in the river without crossing the water
ArPharazonV: Aiya
FINARFIN010: i do not understand
VardaValar1: Tickled you could come at all. We know you work
FINARFIN010: thank you
VardaValar1: The army of the dead in the Return of the King took the corsair ships, but were then dismissed. Why?
VardaValar1: It only gets good in here after a bit of time anyway. ;-)
FINARFIN010: is it because they fullfilled their oath.
VardaValar1: But as Phar quoted before you came,
VardaValar1: 'The hour is come at last. Now I go to Pelargir upon Anduin, and ye shall come after me. And when all this land is clean of the servants of Sauron, I will hold the oath fulfilled, and ye shall have peace and depart for ever.
FINARFIN010: who knows the fate of man. It is the gift of eru and not for mortal or elf to puzzle out.
ArPharazonV: in that case, can you explain how Isildur cursed them in the first place?
VardaValar1: And when all this land is clean of the servants of Sauron, I will hold the oath fulfilled, and ye shall have peace and depart for ever.
FINARFIN010: tolkien was (i think) just being true to his story line.
VardaValar1: And when all this land is clean of the servants of Sauron, I will hold the oath fulfilled, and ye shall have peace and depart for ever.
Menelvagor Valar: uhm...
VardaValar1: I agree he was being true
VardaValar1: but how?
ArPharazonV: Varda... spamming?
VardaValar1: no, lagged
ArPharazonV: ah, ok :-)
Menelvagor Valar: hehe :-)
FINARFIN010: hehe
VardaValar1: Thought it did not go through. Apologies to you poor souls who were thus afflicted
Menelvagor Valar: even the almighty Varda had a spam-lag
VardaValar1: and two crashes so far
FINARFIN010: ouch
VardaValar1: almighty how? :-) I would like to try that
Menelvagor Valar: it seems even the high are affected by the evils that is internet :-)
ArPharazonV: ok, just saved everything to this point
FINARFIN010: i am sure that Sauron would have used the internet to his evil purpose.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar
ArPharazonV: perhaps Morgoth is out there... somewhere....
VardaValar1: He is. He plays WoW every chance
VardaValar1: Luckily Melkor is in the Abyss on vacation
FINARFIN010: Morgoth plays on the plain which is the ethernet.
ArPharazonV: sending evil energies into the atmosphere, corrupting tv, radio, and internet
ArPharazonV: remember, he cannot come back in physical form
VardaValar1: Back to the discussion : )
FINARFIN010: so what is so physical about the internet
ArPharazonV: yet he can haunt the minds of us Men, and probably the internet as well
ArPharazonV: so he can probably do it from the Outside
FINARFIN010: hey do not leave out the women here.
ArPharazonV: I'm talking about the name of the race, the second children of Eru :-)
VardaValar1: Melkor is known to influence from the abyss
ArPharazonV: if I said men, it would be a different matter... but I say Men :-)
FINARFIN010: ok
VardaValar1: The internet is perfect for him, aye : )
VardaValar1: How can I leave out women? : )
ArPharazonV: besides, Varda is a Valie ;-)
ArPharazonV: not of the race of Men
ArPharazonV: hey... am I the only Man here?
FINARFIN010: and we know that the race of the valar could ot be turned to evil right?
VardaValar1: Yes, Phar : )
Menelvagor Valar: just comes to mind, but apart from Men having the title of Second Children of Eru, chronologically speaking, weren't the Dwarves Second?
VardaValar1: Melkor was a Vala
FINARFIN010: *combs his golden locks.*
VardaValar1: Dwarves could be called first if they got persnickety about it
ArPharazonV: *does the same* hey, I'm still a Golden King
FINARFIN010: that was my point
HeruRasa: Dawrves were the children of Aule
ArPharazonV: did Phara have golden hair, btw?
FINARFIN010: but you are but a child to me
Menelvagor Valar: *shows of with a dazzling display of solar emanations*
HeruRasa: Dwarves too
VardaValar1: Kids : )
Menelvagor Valar: the Dwarves were adopted by Eru
ArPharazonV: we are all kids to the Valar...
ArPharazonV: adopted.... nice word
VardaValar1: *switches to golden hair for five minutes*
FINARFIN010: i wish i had Varda as my babysitter. (sigh)
ArPharazonV: I would have said tolerated...
VardaValar1: How about a friend, Fin? :-)
FINARFIN010: :-)
VardaValar1: Adopted is right, they were the adopted children
Menelvagor Valar: to me, Varda is an elder, but Phar and Finarfin, definitely kids, aye
ArPharazonV: hmm... must remember... Menel is no longer an Elf...
VardaValar1: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: I knew there was some advantage to being Maia :-P
FINARFIN010: hehe
ArPharazonV: no longer Finarfin's nephew :-)
VardaValar1: You bet!
VardaValar1: Poor Fin
VardaValar1: Recruit a new Turgon
ArPharazonV: no longer my ancestor :-(
VardaValar1: Anyway, about the Dead...
FINARFIN010: singing* lonely I'm mister lonely.. i have no body to call my own....
Menelvagor Valar: message me on msn, and I am once again, Phar :-)
Menelvagor Valar: finarfin, if you are lonely, look up at the Sickle and you will know I am there
VardaValar1: The Valar's plan as leaked by Gandalf, was to have Men learn to stand on their own feet
VardaValar1: They had to beat Sauron as themselves, not too much outside obvious help
FINARFIN010: i need not look to the sickle to know that i hold you in my heart.
ArPharazonV: the Dead were Men
VardaValar1: So only representative of Elves and Men, one apiece. No army
ArPharazonV: and the Dead were cursed to be the Dead by a Man
VardaValar1: The dead were not regular Men
ArPharazonV: though I still wonder how he did it...
FINARFIN010: but did the belong to the race of man?
Menelvagor Valar: your loss, too bad you're missing some fireworks by not looking :-P
ArPharazonV: interesting question... let's see if they were men
ArPharazonV: yet if they weren't, why did they swear an oath to Isildur?
VardaValar1: They used to be Men, but had passed partly to the next stage
VardaValar1: They needed freedom to go on
FINARFIN010: so they would be subject to the gift of Eru.
ArPharazonV: yet they were brought into their Undead state by the race of Men
ArPharazonV: so why would their assistance be a divine intervention?
FINARFIN010: curses were not only used by men but by elves as well
Menelvagor Valar: because the race of men can´t make people undead
FINARFIN010: and even gollum was loth to break the rules which governed the laws of the riddle game.
Menelvagor Valar: and the Valar, in knowing what would happen, granted Isildur´s curse
VardaValar1: Because Aragorn needed an army, they were allowed to help. Aragorn needed to reach Minas Tirith and stop the corsairs
VardaValar1: but did he really need the dead afterwards?
Menelvagor Valar: yes
VardaValar1: Should they be held back from their reward?
Menelvagor Valar: nope
ArPharazonV: was their oath fulfilled?
Menelvagor Valar: but could have been a big help
VardaValar1: Men, real undeniable men, saved Minas Tirith
FINARFIN010: their reward was held from them by their actions.
VardaValar1: They could say they stood on their own feet
ArPharazonV: did they defeat all servants of Sauron in 'this land'?
VardaValar1: The word "this" is interesting there
ArPharazonV: perhaps if that was the land of... how many? 7?...rivers, their task would be over
VardaValar1: Maybe in the land they were supposed to have protected at first?
ArPharazonV: but if by 'this land' Aragorn meant Gondor, they still had some time to go
Menelvagor Valar: true, but whether `this land` being south of the white mountains or beyond, remains that their oath was not fulfilled to what it held
ArPharazonV: 1 more battle to fight
ArPharazonV: it is not said that they actually fulfilled their oath
VardaValar1: If Aragorn held it fulfilled, it was. It was his interpretation that mattered
Menelvagor Valar: but whether or not their oath was fulfilled by the terms that Isildur had set, Aragorn, as a direct descendant from Isildur could hold their oaths fulfilled at any given time
ArPharazonV: it is just said Aragorn would consider them fulfilled if they did a certain task
FINARFIN010: could Aragorn release them at that time...?? i mean.. he had not been crowned king yet
VardaValar1: He's a generous person, and did not hold with what amounted to slavery
VardaValar1: Aragorn was the heir of Isildur, good enough
ArPharazonV: no, but he was the heir of Isildur, and had the Sword
FINARFIN010: and the ring
ArPharazonV: no, he did not have the ring :-)
Menelvagor Valar: the title doesn´t matter, the bloodline does
ArPharazonV: perhaps the Sword was just an added condition put in the movie... not sure
Menelvagor Valar: which reminds me, what happend to the Palantir of Orthanc?
VardaValar1: Ring of Barahir
VardaValar1: How did that remind you? : )
FINARFIN010: ?
ArPharazonV
: well, Aragorn had it last
ArPharazonV
: he looked into it at... Dunharrow? Edoras?
ArPharazonV
: somewhere in Rohan
VardaValar1
: It belonged to Aragorn and did not have scary flaming hands to look through. Probably used it
Menelvagor Valar
: because between Aragorn uses the Palantir in Helm´s Deep and his arrival in Minas Tirith (and after) there is no mention of it
VardaValar1
: No mention needed
ArPharazonV
: ah, Helm's Deep
FINARFIN010
: i remember reading somewhere that he used the stone to lookin on his realm and friends.
Eonwe Valar
: It says that Aragorn used the Palantir into the 4th Age to keep an eye on his realm
VardaValar1
: Aye, Fin and Eonwe
ArPharazonV
: where does it say that?
FINARFIN010
: i do not remember
ArPharazonV
: *flipping appendix*
FINARFIN010
: where
FINARFIN010
: but i do remember reaking it at some point.
VardaValar1
: Well, at least three of us remember reading it.
ArPharazonV
: Unfinished Tales, perhaps?
FINARFIN010
: that is what i was thinking.
Eonwe Valar
: It's in RotK somewhere
Menelvagor Valar
: true, but if he had taken it with him, there would have been 2 Palantiri in Minas Tirith
VardaValar1
: RotK is how I remember it
Eonwe Valar
: My guess is that it's after the Battle of the Morannon :}
VardaValar1
: But the second palantir had Denethor's burning hands to look through
VardaValar1
: Not fun
ArPharazonV
: perhaps he cleansed it, and gave it to Arwen to keep contact when they were seperated in the city ;-)
Menelvagor Valar
: no
Eonwe Valar
: It would've been a fight each time he used that Palantir to change the view away from burning hands
VardaValar1
: Aragorn would not have cared to use the stone of Orthanc again until after Sauron's destruction,
Menelvagor Valar
: I think it is said somewhere that foreverafter Denethor´s hands were showed, except for those strong enough to pierce the `spell`
Eonwe Valar
: that would age someone pretty fast, if they had to fight with that every time the person tried to use it they had to fight with that scene.
VardaValar1
: Aragorn would have had the strength, but having to fight to use it every time would keep him form using it lightly
Eonwe Valar
: er, scratch the last part, it's repetition.
VardaValar1
: Fingernails didn't work on the screen, Fionwe
Eonwe Valar
: Plus, it was attune to the Ithil-stone, which, while Barad-Dur came crashing down, may at some point be recovered, perhaps by an excavation team.
Eonwe Valar
: hehe
Menelvagor Valar
: true Eonwe
VardaValar1
: Have Aragorn beep the stone so they could hear its noise and find it under rubble!
ArPharazonV
: and thus another stone is recovered... making 3 out of 7
ArPharazonV
: was there still a stone residing in the Tower Hills?
Eonwe Valar
: and that one the owner would have to fight through Sauron's evil will poured upon it.
Menelvagor Valar
: but grabbing the Orthanc stone from Sauron´s will would be extremely more harder than using the Tirith stone
VardaValar1
: That would help reunite the north and south with fast communication, with one possibly for Aragorn while out with the armies
Menelvagor Valar
: aye Varda
VardaValar1
: Cirdan's stone only pointed one way
Eonwe Valar
: the other 4 would require scuba divers
ArPharazonV
: but it was still there?
ArPharazonV
: Cirdan's stone?
Menelvagor Valar
: I think Aragorn sent the Orthanc stone north, untainted, while keeping the Tirith stone in Tirith, for his own use
FINARFIN010
: i have something
ArPharazonV
: me too
VardaValar1
: Grimbold says hi
Menelvagor Valar
: hi back
ArPharazonV
: hi, Grimbold
ArPharazonV
: hope to see you some time in DS :-)
FINARFIN010
: "only the orthnac-stone, recovered from saruman by a strange mischance, remained to the new King of Gondor for use during the foruth age; for the palantir of the tower hills was secretly put aboard master Elrond's ship by Cidan
VardaValar1
: Thanks : )
ArPharazonV
: nice
FINARFIN010
: the ship wright, and so passed over sea back to eressea at the end of the third age
Eonwe Valar
: Makes sense
Menelvagor Valar
: reunited with the Master Stone
ArPharazonV
: to cut off the worlds of Men and Elves forever
ArPharazonV
: let the age of Men truly begin
Menelvagor Valar
: not really Pharazon
ArPharazonV
: not?
HearNoEvil80
has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar
: the Palantiri were Elven wrought, and it´s master stone had always recided in Eressea
VardaValar1
: Aiya Grimbold : )
ArPharazonV
: Aiya
FINARFIN010
: right
Menelvagor Valar
: taking one of them back to Eressea would not have made a difference in any way
HearNoEvil80
: Aiya all....just got back from vacation...good to be back
ArPharazonV
: but the one in the Tower Hills was especially attuned to the west, to the Master Stone
Eonwe Valar
: Well, taking the one that looked toward Eressea means they don't get to see Eressea any more
ArPharazonV
: aye
ArPharazonV
: that
VardaValar1
: Welcome back. :-) Hope you are rested enough for palantir talk : )
Menelvagor Valar
: as far as I know, it never could see Eressea
ArPharazonV
: it is said Elendil used it to look back
Menelvagor Valar
: to Numenor I tihnk
Eonwe Valar
: The Palantir on the Tower Hills was set there specificalyl because it looked to the Master Stone on Tol Eressea
ArPharazonV
: wasn't Numenor on the bottom of the sea by then?
Eonwe Valar
: And that was the only direction it looked.
Menelvagor Valar
: because only the stone of Osgiliath could look to Eressea from Numenor
Menelvagor Valar
: Men never forget their roots, even if buried under the mountains or swallowed by sea
ArPharazonV
: 'Elendil set it there so that he could look back with 'straight sight' and see Eressea in the vanished West; but the bent seas below covered Numenor for ever.'
Menelvagor Valar
: ok, I stand corrected
Menelvagor Valar
: but at any rate
Menelvagor Valar
: taking that stone back to Eressea would be more of a sign to look to the future than look for the past or the unattainable
FINARFIN010
: the palantir of the tower hills remained untouched by evil. since it looked only towards the far west, it was quite useless to those struggling for power, and it had...
FINARFIN010
: long been in the keeping of the high elves.
Menelvagor Valar
: note that Cirdan is a Sindarin, not a High Elf
ArPharazonV
: 'it is believed that thus he would at whiles see far away even the Tower of Avallone upon Eressea, where the Master-stone abode, and abides.'
ArPharazonV
: *and yet abides
VardaValar1
: You want to tell that to Cirdan?
Eonwe Valar
: Actaully, Cirdan is a Teleri
FINARFIN010
: spot on Arpharazon
Eonwe Valar
: Falathrim branch, perhaps?
VardaValar1
: Think what a high elf is
FINARFIN010
: and cridan had a ring of power as well.
Menelvagor Valar
: perhaps Eonwe, but Cirdan is without doubt, MoriQuendi
VardaValar1
: Aye, and passed it to Gandalf
FINARFIN010
: ayi
ArPharazonV
: indeed, Cirdan was one of the Sindarin Teleri
ArPharazonV
: like all the people of Thingol
FINARFIN010
: and a member of the white councle
VardaValar1
: Cirdan knew what Gandalf was, and did not pass it to any other Maiar
VardaValar1
: Thingol was not moriquendi
Eonwe Valar
: Aye. Sindarins are considered a step above Moriquendi, so to speak, if only slightly.
VardaValar1
: Sindarins are twilight elves, not dark elves
ArPharazonV
: Thingol wasn't, but his people were Sindarin
VardaValar1
: They had Thingol and Melian
ArPharazonV
: Thingol was consider a High Elf
Eonwe Valar
: Due to them living in a realm ruled by a Calaquendi and a Maia, they gained some benefit
Menelvagor Valar
: as I remember, to the CalaQuendi, those who had not seen the light of the Two Trees were Mori
Menelvagor Valar
: Cirdan never lived in that realm
FallenGlory
: I've gotta go, have a nice night everyone
FallenGlory
has left the room.
FINARFIN010
: Namarie
Eonwe Valar
: I'm so glad my computer is within 3 feet of my Tolkien books :}
FINARFIN010
: you have books???!!!
ArPharazonV
: I thought it was just a movie??
Menelvagor Valar
: he first lived either in Brithombar or Eglarest before those towns were sacked and lived on Balar afterwards, until the end of the 1st Age
FINARFIN010
: what movie!?!
Eonwe Valar
: Cirdan was aTeleri, Lord of the Falathrim.
Eonwe Valar
: The disagreement, Menelvagor, was that you said he was Sindarin :}
ArPharazonV
: that he was, wasn't he?
Menelvagor Valar
: true, but not having seen the Light of the Two Trees makes him Mori Quendi regardless
Menelvagor Valar
: memory isn´t at all times correct, as Pharazon proved just a short while ago
ArPharazonV
: always glad to help :-D
Eonwe Valar
: No argument that he was Moriquendi :}
Menelvagor Valar
: hehe :-)
Menelvagor Valar
: at any rate, if you look at it from JRRT perspective, Cala are High, thus Cirdan was not High Elf
ArPharazonV
: I say the best Elven people-name was the Solosimpi :-)
Eonwe Valar
: No disagreement, Menelvagor :}
Menelvagor Valar
: but if you look at it in a DnD way, according to his lineage and his position, he would have been High Elf
Eonwe Valar
: Unless we wish to get into Semantics, but I'll leave that for when I'm surrounded by linguists :}
ArPharazonV
: he would have been a high Elf, not a High Elf :-)
Menelvagor Valar
: same thing
FINARFIN010
: i never said he was a high elf. I said it (the palantir) was kept by the high elves.
Menelvagor Valar
: high Elf and High elf is no different
ArPharazonV
: ok, he was a noble elf, and not a High Elf
HearNoEvil80
has left the room.
ArPharazonV
: but if you see high as subjective, and an alternative to noble, instead of the same term as High, he was a high elf
Eonwe Valar
: he was an Elf Lord, just not one from across the Sea. Everyone happy? :}
Menelvagor Valar
: true, Finarfin, but Cirdan being their leader, and many Teleri still living in the Grey Havens, you can´t really say that it was kept by the high elves
FINARFIN010
: he ruled the Havens.. and the highs elves thought very highly of him. and gave him authority to move the seeing stone.
ArPharazonV
: he was an Aristocratic Elf :-)
Eonwe Valar
: The Tower Hills was a Noldorin refuge, wasn't it?
VardaValar1
: If they wanted to cross to Valinor or Middle-earth for a fight, they needed to be nice to Cirdan
FarmerMaggotV
has entered the room.
ArPharazonV
: by Gil-Galad, you mean?
VardaValar1
: Aiya Farmer
FINARFIN010
: Aya Farmer
ArPharazonV
: Aiya
FarmerMaggotV
: I may be in and out, getting on the comp when there's no parents near :-P
Menelvagor Valar
: restarting AIM, keyboard being it´s normal self again (mixing up keys)
Menelvagor Valar
has left the room.
VardaValar1
: Rather you not get in trouble, Sir
Menelvagor Valar
has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar
: back :-)
VardaValar1
: Working better, star buddy?
ArPharazonV
: Aiyata
Menelvagor Valar
: and keyboard normal once again :-)
FINARFIN010
: W.B.,
VardaValar1
: yay!
Farmer Maggot V
has entered the room.
FarmerMaggotV
has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar
: just changes country settings now and then
ArPharazonV
: hmm... Valar basically created Menelvagor, right?
ArPharazonV
: *Varda
VardaValar1
: There we go : ) Farmer
Farmer Maggot V
: my pleasure
Menelvagor Valar
: I think European keyboards differ from US ones
VardaValar1
: US keyboards differ from US ones
Menelvagor Valar
: how US :-P
VardaValar1
: I see three different ones from here, no, four.
ArPharazonV
: at least European keyboards stay the same ;-)
Farmer Maggot V
: the layouts are usually similiar.... QWERTY == QWERTY eh? (I've only seen about 20 keyboards though)
VardaValar1
: Yes, they are all QWERTY boards here
VardaValar1
: Some are not though
ArPharazonV
: it's not the QWERTY... but the -.;:+´´*< kind of stuff
Farmer Maggot V
: ah
Menelvagor Valar
: aye
Eonwe Valar
: I'm not a fan of "ergonomic" keyboards
ArPharazonV
: pretty interesting story, though :-)
FINARFIN010
: well i am off to play for a bit.
VardaValar1
: By the way, WoW folk, Mairowen is on for the Laytonrim now. aka Eowyn
Eonwe Valar
: I don't like my hands looking like \ /
FINARFIN010
: as always it was fun
Menelvagor Valar
: have fun
VardaValar1
: D2X, Fin
ArPharazonV: we had this pc with a keyboard, and another pc with another keyboard
FINARFIN010
: yup
Menelvagor Valar
: 2 weeks and counting for me for WoW :-)
VardaValar1
: Any others up for some D2X?
ArPharazonV
: and we switched keyboards, because of functional issues
FINARFIN010
: Namaire
ArPharazonV
: Namarie
FINARFIN010
has left the room.
VardaValar1
: Namaire
ArPharazonV
: and now I've got like a European keyboard with American key-functions.. or the other way around...
ArPharazonV
: so keys are all mixed up
HeruRasa
: I hope to be on in WoW in the next few days
ArPharazonV
: if I press the slash, I get the dash... literally
Menelvagor Valar
: I think I am off to CounterStrike, I feel the urge to shoot some people, dunno why
VardaValar1
: That soon! Wow : )
VardaValar1
: CounterStrike, Do you use a guild name there?
VardaValar1
: We have a lot of CS guys
Menelvagor Valar
: using Turgon there
VardaValar1
: Chuck the board, Phar : )
ArPharazonV
: no, not necessary
Menelvagor Valar
: as in most non-guild games and functions
ArPharazonV
: I know exactly what key to press now, no need to watch the keyboard even :-)
ArPharazonV
: and when in doubt, I check the keyboard in the other room with the keys matching these functions ;-)
ArPharazonV
: so, anybody still here?
Farmer Maggot V
: I am, kinda
HeruRasa
: sort of :-)
VardaValar1
: In several windows
VardaValar1
: Eyes starting to hurt
ArPharazonV
: ah, good.. not all alone here :-)
VardaValar1
: Afraid I need to get away from comp
ArPharazonV
: well, that can't be good ;-)
Farmer Maggot V
: uh oh, don't drown in reality
Farmer Maggot V
: reality is evil........ :-P
VardaValar1
: Just in Vai
VardaValar1
: Been going over things to see who is active for hours, then meeting
VardaValar1
: ack
VardaValar1
: Used to be much easier
HeruRasa
: gonna head out myself, hope to see all in WoW real soon
VardaValar1
: That will be fun
Eonwe Valar
: Take care Ulmo
ArPharazonV
: Namarie
VardaValar1
: About what time of day ?
VardaValar1
: Evenings EST?
Eonwe Valar
: Great to see you again :}
ArPharazonV
: was nice to meet you...
ArPharazonV
: have we met before?
VardaValar1
: Really made my day : )
HeruRasa
: late afternoons/eves EST
VardaValar1
: He is one of the original Council, co-chair with me for years
ArPharazonV
: yes, I know that
ArPharazonV
: his story about the Guild was one of the first things I read on the website :-)
VardaValar1
: We didn't even touch most of those topics yet, Phar : )
VardaValar1
: Good story : )
HeruRasa
: wow, still read even now? :-)
VardaValar1
: Yes : )
VardaValar1
: Feel free to add to it
ArPharazonV
: a bit over a year ago I found the site, and I enjoyed it :-)
HeruRasa
: well, catch all later then, namarie
VardaValar1
: All of you who are in the guild can make your history and email it to me to post.
VardaValar1
: Namarie
ArPharazonV
: Namarie
HeruRasa
has left the room.
Farmer Maggot V
: Anyone know a good, free CD burning program -> preferably with a simple interface and able to burn ISO files

VardaValar1
: Ulmo plans to stick to one character, as he did in EQ
Eonwe Valar
: There should be one that comes with your cd burner
ArPharazonV
: ISO files, eh? I once used Nero for that
VardaValar1
: What Eonwe said
Farmer Maggot V
: Got the burner OEM
ArPharazonV
: for the rest, making music-cd's, data-cd's, and copies, I use.. what's it called...
ArPharazonV
: HPRecordNow
ArPharazonV
: I think that one came with the burner, aye
VardaValar1
: We use HeadNero
ArPharazonV
: HPRecordnow has a very easy interface, but I don't know if it can burn ISO
ArPharazonV
: and I don't know if you'll be able to find it :-)
VardaValar1
: Don't know about ISO here either
ArPharazonV
: Nero can burn ISO
Farmer Maggot V
: yeah, sounds like HPRecord now is only available w/ an HP dreive
Farmer Maggot V
: *drive
ArPharazonV
: I've tried that before, with success
ArPharazonV
: don't know about HeadNero... that a seperate version?
ArPharazonV
: oh, it's called Ahead Nero here... we talking about same program?
VardaValar1
: Namarie for real now
VardaValar1
has left the room.
ArPharazonV
: well, that was abrupt
Eonwe Valar
: She's been leaving for about 10 minutes,.. hardly abrupt :}
ArPharazonV
: without answering my final question :-) oh well
Eonwe Valar
: What was the question?
Eonwe Valar: Maybe I can help
ArPharazonV
: VardaValar1: We use HeadNero
ArPharazonV
: ArPharazonV: don't know about HeadNero... that a seperate version?
ArPharazonV
: oh, it's called Ahead Nero here... we talking about same program?
ArPharazonV
: about the burning of the ISO files
Eonwe Valar
: Ok, scratch that, can't help :}
ArPharazonV
: in any case, I still had indeed a few other tolkien topics remaining from before the meeting ;-)
Eonwe Valar
: I just know you should be able to burn any file with the software your cd burner comes with
Eonwe Valar
: We'll probably hit some of those next week :}
ArPharazonV
: but, it should appear in the transcript for this meeting :-)
ArPharazonV
: so we can have something to look back upon next week, indeed
ArPharazonV
: well, I guess that's it...
Eonwe Valar
: pretty much :}
ArPharazonV
: I'll save the transcript for the last time today, then
ArPharazonV
: any last words? ;-)
ArPharazonV
: ok, here we go: Happy New Year to all the Guild!
Eonwe Valar
: Valar Guild: Live it, Love it :}
Farmer Maggot V
: heh
Eonwe Valar
: Happy New Year! :}
Farmer Maggot V
: Burn at Once is doing a good job burning ISOs, I'm not sure if it'll make data CDs heh
sauronjag
: heyas
ArPharazonV
: hey
ArPharazonV
: just in time
sauronjag
: for..? :-)
ArPharazonV
: the end of all things :-)
ArPharazonV
: last saving of the transcript coming up :-)
ArPharazonV
: ok, saving now
Farmer Maggot V
: wait
ArPharazonV
: *closes save menu* what?
Farmer Maggot V
: Burn at Once works nicely for ISOs and data CDs and has a minimilistic interface and is free
Farmer Maggot V
: just wrapping up what I asked earlier :-P
ArPharazonV
: and another topic closed :-)
ArPharazonV
: good to see you have found your answer
Farmer Maggot V
: yep
ArPharazonV
: well, that's it then... again :-)
ArPharazonV
: saving....
ArPharazonV
: now 
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