Valar Guild

January 16, 2005 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST
Back to News
Transcript team: Ar-Pharazon, Varda
Attending: (21)
    Members: Aerandir, Alatar, Arathorn, Ar-Pharazon, Arwen, Eonwe, Finarfin, Fladrif, Galdor, Gilraen, Gwaihir, FarmerMaggot/FarmerMaggotV/TheSirG3, Menelvagor, Olwe/FallenGlory, Orodreth, Thorondor, Thranduil, Thror/ChuginChub, Ulmo/HeruRasa, Varda (presiding) 
    Guest: the loser emu (Aerandir's friend, observing)

Meeting Begins
Membership News 
Web News  
    Chat program offer by Alatar 
    Tolkien Encyc: two new articles 
Gaming News 
    World of WarCraft guild branch official!
    Guild's rp MeO in Forum
Tolkien Chat:
    Death of Humphrey Carpenter
    Ring of Barahir  

You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."

VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
The SirG3 has entered the room.
GaldorV: Aiya
The SirG3: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya!
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
VardaValar1: Am I back?
FladrifV: I think so
VardaValar1: yay :-)
VardaValar1: Our internet went out for a bit
FarmerMaggotV: ah, I've been messing with our LAN -> got a new router! :-D
VardaValar1: Congrats!
FladrifV: eth0 :P
FarmerMaggotV: close flad
FarmerMaggotV: :-P
VardaValar1: Maybe we need a new one. This one's kinda old and a big packet seems to send tus to Neverland
FladrifV: i know :-)
FladrifV: but I prefer eth1 for that :-)
FarmerMaggotV: heh
FarmerMaggotV: I don't mess with that much, just enough to know what's eth0 :-P
FladrifV: eth1 is the next one in sequence :-)
FarmerMaggotV: yeah...... on some OSes
FladrifV: /me is writing a report in english thats why my language improved
FarmerMaggotV: OpenBSD uses driver names (wd0 for the first western digital HDD)
FladrifV: thats why I like linux more
FarmerMaggotV: I like it more because it's more user friendly :-P
FarmerMaggotV: I got Fedora Core 3 running in VMWare in about 14 hours (updates took forever)
FladrifV: lol
FladrifV: slackware rules
FarmerMaggotV: heh
FarmerMaggotV: I gotta find a copy of BeOS -> any clues Flad?
FladrifV: there is a restart
FladrifV: and I have an old beos 4 :-)
FarmerMaggotV: awesome, could you send it my way?
FarmerMaggotV: (ISO I assume?)
FladrifV: If i was at home
FarmerMaggotV: ah, darn
FladrifV: and found the cd
FladrifV: yes
FarmerMaggotV: heh
FarmerMaggotV: my friend got a 2 dvd set of every Windows OS
FladrifV: read could take a month or 2
FarmerMaggotV: heh
FarmerMaggotV: I think there was a link somewhere on the net to an ISO of BeOS 4
Thranduil Valar has entered the room.
Thranduil Valar: aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya!
ArPharazonV has entered the room.

You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."

ArPharazonV: Aiya
FarmerMaggotV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: what'd I miss?
FarmerMaggotV: nothing
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: yeah right
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Comp talk
FarmerMaggotV: geek speak
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
VardaValar1: Meeting in about 10 minutes
ArPharazonV: hmm... I feel like making my next few posts soon
Thranduil Valar: hey guys isnt it wierd that Peter Jackson sort of created his own story for the LOTR series?
ArPharazonV: but seeing as it will lay bare a lot of what could be an important aspect to our rp, I thought we should discuss it first
ArPharazonV: PJ? hmm... mostly to make the story more fit for a movie, I'd say
FarmerMaggotV: I don't think he created his own story, he modded Tolkien's to keep the viewer's interest throughout the movie
Thranduil Valar: jeez im starting to hate the movie as every minute pases by
VardaValar1: PJ's fan fic is one joke, but he did have to change it for the big screen
Thranduil Valar: ya but still
ArPharazonV: where are you know? :-)
VardaValar1: A lot of the book does not go well onto the screen
FarmerMaggotV: cuz, you have to admit the council of Elrond wouldn't exactly make for great screenplay
ArPharazonV: *now
Thranduil Valar: he changed soo much
Thranduil Valar: lol
Thranduil Valar: true
VardaValar1: Thranduil. we have some folk in WoW now
ArPharazonV: tested out the new viewer?
Thranduil Valar: yes i heard do we have enough to start the guild?
FINARFIN010 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Do you know the name you are going for?
VardaValar1: Yes :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: That is our big news for today, in fact
Thranduil Valar: lol its just gonna be Thranduil-V i guess
Thranduil Valar: kool
VardaValar1: But I haven't said yet. Said nothing. nope not me ;-)
VardaValar1: Can try for Thranduil or a version thereof
Thranduil Valar: ok ya for sure
VardaValar1: Add a V if you like if you cannot get the name you want
VardaValar1: The guild marker will go under the name you use, don't have to type it
FINARFIN010: hehe how is everyone
Thranduil Valar: ya i know
VardaValar1: We are fabulous, of course, as we hope you are : )
ArPharazonV: how about replacing the first letter of your name by a V?
Thranduil Valar: lol we try
ArPharazonV: Ar-Vharazon?
FINARFIN010: well i am great!! as it is my birthday!!! hehe
VardaValar1: the first letter V was a different guild
VardaValar1: Woot!
ArPharazonV: ah
VardaValar1: Happy birthday, Finarfin!
Thranduil Valar: Happy Birthday
ArPharazonV: Happy Birthday
VardaValar1: Yay from Eonwe : )
ArPharazonV: and may you live to see many more
FINARFIN010: *dancing the spring ringle.
Thranduil Valar: afk
VardaValar1: /dances with Finarfin010
FINARFIN010: *bows to Varda
FINARFIN010: *invites everyone to join in
VardaValar1: Circle dance!
FINARFIN010: *hands out gifts
VardaValar1: Passes around elven wine
FINARFIN010: *hic*
VardaValar1: *pats Fin on back*
ArPharazonV: *brings out the cake*
FINARFIN010: i wonder if elves celeverated each birthday or just each 5, or 10 or 50 as they lived so long.
AlatarValar2 has entered the room.
FarmerMaggotV: cake........ ooh
FINARFIN010: Woot!!!! cake
FINARFIN010: we love cake
AlatarValar2: Aiya, all.
ArPharazonV: elves? I've read something about that
FINARFIN010: we decree cake to be the royal food of the family
ArPharazonV: they don't celebrate the single year as much as they do huge numbers of years... 1000 or so....
VardaValar1: Fin is an elf, np : )
FINARFIN010: yeah that would make sense
ArPharazonV: exact numbers are to be found in one of the appendices
ArPharazonV: or in the making of that appendix
ArPharazonV: not sure
ArPharazonV: so either rotk, or HoME part 12
FINARFIN010: i wonder if elves ever thought of human years as we do dog years (you know 7 dog years for every one of our years) hehe
VardaValar1: Sounds right : )
VardaValar1: I will need a transcript saver or two
VardaValar1: Crashing a lot
FINARFIN010: ouch.
Thranduil Valar has left the room.
FINARFIN010: crashing is not allowed on my birthday !! It is so Decreeded
VardaValar1: *will crash more quietly next time*
HeruRasa has entered the room.
FINARFIN010: *throws safty net under Varda to prevent crashes
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
HeruRasa: heyas
FINARFIN010: heya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Orodreth V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
FINARFIN010: heya
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
Orodreth V: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
GilraenV has entered the room.
FINARFIN010: heya
VardaValar1: Nice crowd : )
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
FINARFIN010: wow 11 pp
ThorondorV has entered the room.
FINARFIN010: very nice indeed
Orodreth V: DSL, assuming it dosn't break again, should be here by the monday after tomorrow if not sooner.
ArPharazonV: Aiya.... Aiya... Aiya... Aiya...
ThorondorV: Heya, sorry I'm a bit late..
GwaihirValar: g'day
GilraenV: evenin' folks
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
Orodreth V: And then I can finally play WC3 online again.
FarmerMaggotV: cool :-)
Orodreth V: Been going throught he campaigns..on the first undead mission for FT now.
FINARFIN010: does anyone play the new battle for middle earth game?
VardaValar1: Some do. Do you, Fin?
FINARFIN010: i looked into the game and i did not like the premmis
ArPharazonV: ooh, the final campaign for TFT... you're in for quite a treat
ArPharazonV: level 6 and 8 are so amazing...
AlatarValar2: Meaning? You don't care for the fact that you can pit allies against each other in battle, changing the story? I'm curious about what you did not care for, Finarfin.
Orodreth V: This is my..5th or 6th time though, Ar. :-P
ArPharazonV: lvl 8 is perhaps my favorite map of the entire game
VardaValar1: Guys, let's knock off some business and then go into looser chat and gaming : )
ArPharazonV: it was the hardest I'd ever seen, but it was so much fun
VardaValar1: We have some folk with time restrictions or just wanting to game ;-)
ArPharazonV: ok, continue
FarmerMaggotV: woot, more D2 ;-)
VardaValar1: hehe
Orodreth V: Last human for roc on hard is hard.
AlatarValar2: *chanting* WoW... WoW... come to the dark side!
Orodreth V: Like, the hardest map, ever. </end ot>
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
VardaValar1: Now we are ready : )
ArPharazonV: haven't tried many of them in hardmode... I always got killed off in like chapter 4 or 5 of the human campaign ;-)
Chugin Chub has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya
Chugin Chub: hello
Chugin Chub: =Thror
VardaValar1: After we start, please feel free to continue chat in other windows.
VardaValar1: Please pm me so I will know you need the floor and can turn it over to you
VardaValar1: We want everyone to have a chance to have his or her say : )
GwaihirValar: no, the hardest one is RoC NE final campaign on hard... I never really had trouble with any human ones on either RoC/TFT... *shuts up now* :-)
VardaValar1: Just go to a pm : )

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Member News:
VardaValar1: Finarfin's birthday is today : )
Chugin Chub: happy bd :-)
FINARFIN010: *bows low to all *smiling
VardaValar1: Orodreth has a message. Go ahead, Oro : )
Orodreth V: I will get (really) DSL either late this week or early next week.
VardaValar1: Great! You should see a big speed up : )
Orodreth V: I still remember cable.
Orodreth V: Take me 5 seconds to down load a 40mb file on a slow takes like 3 hours on here.
Orodreth V: *wimper*
ArPharazonV: Fladrif came by today, got rid of a lot of spyware and such... so I should be going a little faster as well :-)
VardaValar1: Gwaihir has an announcement :-)
VardaValar1: Good, Phar : )
FladrifV: oro 64 mbit?
GwaihirValar: Gilraen and I have set the date for our wedding... we will be getting married on August 19th, 2006. :-)
FarmerMaggotV: congrats!
ArPharazonV: congratulations!
Eonwe Valar: Congratulations Gwaihir and Gilraen :}
VardaValar1: Congratulations :-)
ArPharazonV: and now for the big question on our minds...
ArPharazonV: are we all invited? ;-)
VardaValar1: *passes miruvor around*
Orodreth V: Congrats!
AlatarValar2: May your union last as long as Beren and Luthien.
FINARFIN010: congrats!!!!
FladrifV: and live hapely ever after
AlatarValar2: With as much adoration and courage.
ArathornValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya
GwaihirValar: Arath... you just missed the announcement... I'm officially stealing your wife next year ;-)
FINARFIN010: hehe
FallenGlory has entered the room.
FallenGlory: Hey
ArPharazonV: Heya
VardaValar1: No other member news will top that : )
FallenGlory: So I've been informed that there's a wedding going to occur, congratulations :-)
VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: oops sorry
VardaValar1: Jumped gun
GwaihirValar: hehe, you just missed the news... Gilraen and I are going to be wed on August 19th, 2006 :-)
VardaValar1: We should perhaps have a moment of silence for Humphrey Carpenter
VardaValar1: He passed away after leaving fine works on Tolkien to keep him immortal
VardaValar1: May we all leave a legacy that good
ArathornValar: lol (stealing my wife..)
AlatarValar2: 58 is too young to leave this soil. *bows*
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
GwaihirValar: :-)
FINARFIN010: * hangs head in quite respect
ThorondorV: I have the Tolkien-bio book written by him, very nice to read..
VardaValar1: The cycle of life and death. We have the joy of Gilraen and Gwaihir to bring us back to the part of life
AlatarValar2: *nods*
FINARFIN010: well said Varda

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Continuing on the Tolkien idea
VardaValar1: We have two new articles by Thorondor
GilraenV: Thank you all for your congratulations (sorry, I was busy writing angry emails to my soon-to-be-former webhost)
VardaValar1: Take a bow, eagle, if physically possible : )
ThorondorV: Doing my best.. :-)
Eonwe Valar: The pitter-patter of little half-Maiar feet in the future :}
VardaValar1: hehe - aye!
VardaValar1: Articles:
VardaValar1: "Heights of the Taller Numenoreans and Elves"
ArPharazonV: I wonder how tall Pharazon would have been...
VardaValar1: Neat bit on how they measured and how very tall they were!
VardaValar1: "Sauron's Ability to Re-form"
VardaValar1: not reform, but re-form : )
VardaValar1: Thanks, Thorondor : )
ArathornValar: haha reform..
ThorondorV: The text about the heights is found only in UT, and many haven't read it, so I thought the subject might interest you..
VardaValar1: More work has been going on the Encyc, hope it will be easier to read as we go
Chugin Chub: whats ut?
VardaValar1: More Web news from Farmer Maggot concerning Spyware
ArPharazonV: I was looking for an article about Huorns.... but it seems there isn't one :-)
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Farmer : )
VardaValar1: Right it, Phar ;-)
VardaValar1: I can put it on the requested list
FarmerMaggotV: Microsoft recently released Microsoft Anti-Spyware -> I've been using it for about a week and it's quite nice
FarmerMaggotV: I'll pull up the link......
VardaValar1: Requested list is on the first page of Encyc
VardaValar1: Thanks, Farmer
HeruRasa: I will never us IE again, I have switched to Mozilla Firefox and had no trouble since
FarmerMaggotV: I agree with HeruRasa, IE is a big security hole :-P
ThorondorV: Same thing, using Mozilla only.. :-)
Orodreth V: Here, here.
VardaValar1: Is Netscape better than Explorer for security?
Eonwe Valar: Tried Mozilla, didn't like it.
AlatarValar2: Aye
FarmerMaggotV: yea, but FireFox is better
GilraenV: it makes some websites look odd
ArPharazonV: I almost always use Firefox, but for some situations IE is just more useful
ThorondorV: Get it from here:
FarmerMaggotV: I always use FireFox (except at a friend's LAN party -> FF has a weird bug w/ proxies)
AlatarValar2: Latest beta version of Netscape, yet to be released, allows you to specify for each tabbed window whether you wish the Gecko engine or the IE engine. Uses latest Mozilla code base. When it is released, it will be quite stellar.
VardaValar1: Oh cool : )
VardaValar1: Thanks Alatar
FarmerMaggotV: Netscape is just a brand though, and I've seen the images of the browser -> looks awful
FINARFIN010: hehe
ArPharazonV: for instance, a few weeks ago I had some problems with Firefox (pictures or pages wouldn't load, certain functions on forums were malfunctioning), and IE worked perfect for those same pages
VardaValar1: Alatar, would you like to tell us about the potential new chat area you located?
AlatarValar2: *nods*
AlatarValar2: As some know, I am the guild's webhost. I own a web hosting company that resells Verio servers (in addition to hosting my radio show) and I give the guild space on one of my FreeBSD boxes.
AlatarValar2: As such, I am somewhat aware of good web extensions, like Java chat rooms. :-)
AlatarValar2: Reading the QuickAIM instructions for this, I was struck thinking we could make this extremely simple for members and administrators alike.
VardaValar1: *somewhat* heh
AlatarValar2: I have suggested to Varda that we use a hosted Java chat room from Sigmachat and I have offered to pay the $75 annual fee for a Professional license.
AlatarValar2: It will offer the following advantages....
AlatarValar2: To members, it means that you are not at the mercy of AIM screen names to get your guild name.
AlatarValar2: It has its own user database.
FarmerMaggotV: AFK, dinner
AlatarValar2: It also means you are not PC/Windows locked with AIM.
AlatarValar2: It runs PC, Mac, Linux
AlatarValar2: All browsers, all platforms
AlatarValar2: The user interface is roughly the same as this
AlatarValar2: And you would enter the chat room by clicking a single link on the guild web site.
AlatarValar2: To administrators, it offers this.
Chugin Chub: well nice seeing you all
Chugin Chub: namarie
ArPharazonV: namarie
GilraenV: namarie
AlatarValar2: Transcripts are automatically kept and can be EMAILED to Varda or other web weavers on a daily basis.
Chugin Chub has left the room.
AlatarValar2: Full configurability over the UI exists, features such as PMs can be enabled or disabled, users can be muted or kicked, etc.
AlatarValar2: You can ban by IP address, network address, ISP block, etc. :-) (If you wish to get MEAN)
AlatarValar2: Not that I assume there is much trouble with disruptors, but I remember Bnet
VardaValar1: We have had an incident or two in AIM
FINARFIN010: afk
VardaValar1: Surprisingly trouble free so far
AlatarValar2: Anyway, I suggest the sample room is looked at.
VardaValar1: Ban is extremely helpful
AlatarValar2: Forward opinions to Varda
AlatarValar2: They have a free version that does not support usernames with passwords, etc.
AlatarValar2: And has no customization with limited administration
AlatarValar2: But as I said
AlatarValar2: I will pay the $75 annual fee to get the Professional version, if we wish
AlatarValar2: Because at that level, the transcript features, etc., come into play
AlatarValar2: Simpler for members, simpler for web weavers, more powerful for administrators, and with your guild name assured. Seems a winner idea.
GilraenV: I was using the free version of that for a while. My computer hated it... although my comp hates everything, lol.
ThorondorV: Time for me to go, folks.. namárië, and congrats to Gil and Gwai again.. :-)
AlatarValar2: *muses* It DOES use Java, so a good JVM is required. But the Sun JVM is free and works splendidly with it. That's the standard engine for Firefox, etc.
ThorondorV has left the room.
AlatarValar2: I am done, Varda, unless there are questions.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Alatar
AlatarValar2: *bows*
ArPharazonV: brb, gonna watch this demonstration of it..
VardaValar1: Any questions? We can also think about it and look over the site
VardaValar1: I would like to take the time to check it out
VardaValar1: I will probably be gone next week, but will get back to everything on returning
ArPharazonV: less emoticons :-(
VardaValar1: That is an incredibly generous offer, Alatar. Our thanks
AlatarValar2: The Pro version supports more emoticons than the free version
VardaValar1: Any other web weavers updates?
AlatarValar2: All "standard" smilies are there
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArathornValar: Yeah yahoo has a real problem with Suns Jvm .. you have tio have the old MS one which they had to get rid of because Sun sued them heh
AlatarValar2: And there are AUDIO emoticons too
ArPharazonV: just commenting on what I see in the demonstration ;-)
ArPharazonV: wow
ArPharazonV: really?
AlatarValar2: Which may become annoying *laughs*
Orodreth V: Pfft. Trillian has those too. :-P
ArPharazonV: you're right... cool
FladrifV: gaim is the best :P
VardaValar1: Can turn off speakers ;-)
AlatarValar2: The old MS JVM is no longer supported and has massive security issues.
FINARFIN010: I agree. It is an incredibly generous offer.. Thank you Indeed.
AlatarValar2: As a tech geek, I highly recommend discontinuing MS JVM, no matter what the cost.
Orodreth V: I liked getting a new skin for Trillian and sitting there just playing the cool sounds over and over. ^.^
ArathornValar: I wish yahoo had updated their chat at one point so it used Suns properly
VardaValar1: We should chew it over and get back to Alatar on this soon as we can
VardaValar1: Like next meeting or two
Orodreth V: Yahoo chat never worked for me.
AlatarValar2: *shrugs* My business absorbs costs like this all the time. It is not so much an issue for me.
ArathornValar: I was part of a techie job hunting group here that used it but most people couldn't get it to work
ArPharazonV: heh, you can turn off the sound within the chatroom itself
AlatarValar2: The server our site is on hosts a major hospital site and a radio show web site, and those pay for the server.
AlatarValar2: I simply carve out some space for Varda :-)
ArathornValar: nice to know there is another good alternative
Orodreth V: That's..that's kinda sad. When a group of techies can't get something to work..
ArathornValar: it's not our site.. it's yahoos
VardaValar1: We have more news that simply must be told : )
VardaValar1: Gaming News:
AlatarValar2: Any other questions or comments? I can be reached via email:
VardaValar1: Thanks. His email is also on our site :-)

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: Eonwe has WoW news : )  [Note: WoW is the World of WarCraft MMORPG]
VardaValar1: Go for it, Auros!
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Last night, we got our last two signatures for the Guild Charter.
AlatarValar2: *cheers!*
ArPharazonV: congrats
VardaValar1: *throws confetti*
ArPharazonV: so the guild is officially in action
ArPharazonV: ?
FladrifV: namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie
FladrifV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: "guild branch"
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Bad time to crash : )
ArPharazonV: ok, "guild branch"
ArPharazonV: have it your way...
VardaValar1: eh
Orodreth V: :envy:
VardaValar1: It's the editor in me ;-) Sorry
ArPharazonV: it is a part of the Guild, isn't it?
GilraenV: lol. who were the last two signatures?
Orodreth V: Why does everyone else get to play WoW, mommie?
ArPharazonV: a full part?
VardaValar1: Alatar and Gaffer Gamgee : )
GilraenV: I don't, Orod
Orodreth V: *cry*
VardaValar1: Not everyone. Hope you will get to later
Orodreth V: *snif*
ArPharazonV: Mid-Feb.... Europe release...
ArPharazonV: me hungry
GilraenV: hopefully. eventually. some time after august 2006 *laughs*
ArPharazonV: need WoW
VardaValar1: Anyway, we want to turn in the Guild Charter with a ceremony
VardaValar1: Feb, European invasion! : )
VardaValar1: So anyone who can come into WoW, please do : )
VardaValar1: We would like to open the tabard and are collecting gold for it
ArPharazonV: screenshots! the first to go on the guild-branch-website!
GilraenV: you paying, Varda? ^_~
VardaValar1: Then members can spend a gold
VardaValar1: I sent 4 gold this morning
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
HeruRasa: WB
AlatarValar2: I just earned my first gold piece, on this server. *sniff* It's so cute!
ArPharazonV: decided on the tabard yet? the leafy sides?
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: and have been sending silvers all along
VardaValar1: Eonwe's call - all can input
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
Eonwe Valar: Thanks. AIM decided there was something wrong with itself.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, take over the floor. *nice and polished*
ArPharazonV: don't slip on it
VardaValar1: Eonwe has the last word in WoW, but he listens to all first
AlatarValar2: *smites AIM with his mallet of doom*
VardaValar1: AIM was right : )
Eonwe Valar: As I was trying to type, I'll be getting on WoW in a few minutes to return the Charter, if anyone would like to be present for this momentous occasion.
ArPharazonV: (psst: take screenshots)
HeruRasa: where do we meet?
AlatarValar2: *sigh* Mrs Alatar just issued the dinnerbell of carnage call. I am out of time, Eonwe. I am so sorry to miss the turn-in.
Eonwe Valar: Stormwind
VardaValar1: Come back after dinner? : )
AlatarValar2: Mahtan and his wife, and some other friends, coming over after dinner.
HeruRasa: later Ala, can't miss dinner :-)
AlatarValar2: I will return, but much later.
AlatarValar2: Namarie, friends.
ArPharazonV: Namarie
Eonwe Valar: Take care Alatar.
AlatarValar2 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Bon apetit :}
VardaValar1: Billboh is now Stormwind-bound
FarmerMaggotV: back
VardaValar1: Seems appropriate for him to represent the Laytonrim : )
Eonwe Valar: As for the tabard, I'll take a look at the edgings with the new tabard viewer Pharazon pointed out on the Forum and get back to you.
ArPharazonV: *small bow*
ArathornValar: I've been spending alot of my money making things and upping skill so have oly about a spare gold right now
VardaValar1: It was a nice viewer
VardaValar1: Sauron is going to be sending in 4 gold
VardaValar1: I sent 4
ArathornValar: btw, I just got to a level where I can make heavy leatehr and heavy leathe kits that add +24 to armor
VardaValar1: We already sent some before
VardaValar1: We will be able to do the opening :-)
GwaihirValar: I have about..... nothing to spare... I don't even have all my skills trained lol
VardaValar1: Great Ara! Bilbo just asked for one ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I'll also issue a rough draft for a charter for the web pages, putting it on the Forum for views, agreements, or where you think something could be worded better.
VardaValar1: Might be able to do some of your draft work with copy pastes from spots on our web sites?
ArathornValar: So now I need even MORE heavy leather for bags and kits ;-P
VardaValar1: Everyone with WoW please log on : )
VardaValar1: Ok. I'll be sending more to you, Ara when I am playing again : )
Eonwe Valar: I really already have the draft written, mostly a condensation of our history and mission statement.
VardaValar1: When does it have to be turned in?
FINARFIN010: back
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
ArathornValar: silk and leather.. leather and silk (I feel like Yukon Cornelius :-P)
Eonwe Valar: Unless anyone has questions, I believe my announcements are done.
VardaValar1: When does the written part have to be turned in?
Eonwe Valar: We'll be meeting in Stormwind at the visitor's center
VardaValar1: That you are doing
VardaValar1: The guild master is there
Eonwe Valar: I will put it up today or tomorrow, and give everyone a week to comment.
VardaValar1: It is next to the bank and inn
Eonwe Valar: If necessary, I'll make adjustments as we go, then the final version will be the one at the end of the one week time period.
VardaValar1: Sounds good : )
Eonwe Valar: If that's all, I am now logging into WoW :}
GwaihirValar: hehe
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe/Auros!
Eonwe Valar: MP :}
VardaValar1: For any who don't know, Eonwe on WoW is Auros. For friend list
HeruRasa: my gryphon is almost there :-)
VardaValar1: The friend list we have now can be found on Maglor's WoW page for the guild, the Forum and Activity page have it but less organized : )
VardaValar1: Bilbo is offering an 8 slot container. Takers?
VardaValar1: Anyone left here who is not going into WoW now?
FarmerMaggotV: I'm not going onto WoW
VardaValar1: and is not afk? : )
VardaValar1: That's two of us : )
VardaValar1: Fin is cooking
HeruRasa: I am windowing back and forth
VardaValar1: ok : )
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya
Orodreth V: Still here
GwaihirValar: I don't think I'll be there... character stuck in deadmines, and I've gotta go shower hehe
GilraenV: I'm here still
VardaValar1: ouch : )
VardaValar1: Menelvagor, you have WoW?
Menelvagor Valar: not yet
VardaValar1: okies
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: They are headed in to turn in the charter : )
Menelvagor Valar: I checked on Bliz page, and the original jan 14. release has been changed to early 2005
VardaValar1: Any other news before Tolkien?
Menelvagor Valar: so, no telling when exactly WoW is released here
GwaihirValar: afk for a bit
VardaValar1: European WoW?
Menelvagor Valar: aye
VardaValar1: How about the Europeans on US servers? Did it mention?
ArPharazonV: 15 Feb, I thought?
ArPharazonV: in Europe?
Menelvagor Valar: well....
Menelvagor Valar: about the intercontinental playing it says only one thing
Menelvagor Valar: and I quote: "We hope to make a solution available for these players after the European release"
VardaValar1: Oh, the folks in WoW now, be sure to type /join Valar
VardaValar1: That puts you in a common channel, like in Blizzard
Menelvagor Valar: so there, it is also impossible to tell when us Euro's can join the US servers
VardaValar1: Hey, it's Blizzard ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: which I fear
Menelvagor Valar: I don't mind waiting a few months on WoW getting released here
VardaValar1: It will happen eventually. We still need folks in our othre games too
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Lets you save shekels : )
VardaValar1: Aiya Aerandir!
Aerandir V: aiya
Menelvagor Valar: but another few months to be able to play on US servers I'm not sure I want to wait for
Menelvagor Valar: although I think Bliz will get this solution quickly
Menelvagor Valar: oh, I might have a bit of news concerning WoW
Menelvagor Valar: other than what I just said
VardaValar1: Just say it : )
Menelvagor Valar: In Holland, by law, the EULA isn't lawfully supported
FarmerMaggotV: heh
Eonwe Valar: not at all?
FarmerMaggotV: is there software patents?
Menelvagor Valar: is what I heard
Menelvagor Valar: yes
Menelvagor Valar: but a EULA is only lawful when the buyer has been able to read the entire thing BEFORE buying the good
VardaValar1: It's on the website too
VardaValar1: Surely they can reach that?
Menelvagor Valar: normal copyrighting and patenting rights are still in place
ArPharazonV: surely, the EULA has been produced on many websites, aye
VardaValar1: I will brb and scroll
Menelvagor Valar: I'll ask if that is legally accepted
ArPharazonV: and if you can't connect to the internet, what's the use of WoW in the first place ;-)
FINARFIN010: well i am off to eat and play a bit of dx2
Menelvagor Valar: true
FINARFIN010: Namaire
ArPharazonV: Namarie
FINARFIN010 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Tolkien topic will be:
VardaValar1: Ring of Barahir's history
Menelvagor Valar: but I'm not sure if on website it counts
Menelvagor Valar: I'll ask about it tho
Menelvagor Valar: and if it doesn't
Menelvagor Valar: us Dutchies are able to sell in-game goods legally :-)
Menelvagor Valar: at least over here :-)
the loser emu has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: so, you interested in a good piece of leather armor? only 5 eurocents ;-)
GilraenV: lol
the loser emu: >.>
the loser emu: V.
Menelvagor Valar: well....
ArPharazonV: who are you?
Menelvagor Valar: it goes more like "interested in 50 gp? if you buy for 10 euro now, you get 5 gp free"
Eonwe Valar: that would be terrible and kill the in-game economy I'd think.
Menelvagor Valar: true
Menelvagor Valar: but EQ and DaoC have similar things
ArPharazonV: if you don't mind me asking...
ArPharazonV: who is the loser emu?
Menelvagor Valar: like the DaoC platinum are sold for like 20 bucks for 50 or sumthin
Aerandir V: friend of mine that was interested
the loser emu: Im just here to observe.
ArPharazonV: ah, ok
the loser emu: Dont mind me.
ArPharazonV: welcome
VardaValar1: back
VardaValar1: Hello
the loser emu: Thank you.
ArPharazonV: Aiyata, Varda
VardaValar1: We are finished with our business meeting, just about, and about to go into Tolkien
VardaValar1: How did you hear of us, Emu?
Menelvagor Valar: on Gaheris, 10 plat (10.000 gold) is sold for 14.99 USD
the loser emu: Aerandir V.
VardaValar1: Any further business?
VardaValar1: Summary:
VardaValar1: Finarfin's birthday
VardaValar1: Gwaihir and Gilraen set their wedding date
VardaValar1: We paid homage to the late Humphrey Carpenter
ArPharazonV: small gaming/membernews... I've entered a new war3-clan with my guild-account a few days ago, if you ever wish to recreate the branch, I'll choose you above anybody
VardaValar1: Alatar offered to set us up with a new chat interface, paying
VardaValar1: We do wish to re-create the branch, Phar
VardaValar1: Just need ten of us to bring in accounts and we'll do it : )
VardaValar1: Only missed it that one month
the loser emu: :]
VardaValar1: I just had a question about the inactivity sweep
VardaValar1: It is still underway
GwaihirValar: afk for a little, dinner
VardaValar1: Anyone interested still has time to contact before the end of Januaary
VardaValar1: I will fudge into February due to the late start
VardaValar1: After than, re-test ;-)
ArPharazonV: I'm accounted for, Fladrif, Farmer Maggot, Menelvagor, Morifinwe..... other than that I don't have much contact with anybody besides the meetings and the forum, so I can't help with that
VardaValar1: It's ok. I have many forms of contact
VardaValar1: The progress is shown on the pages
VardaValar1: I'm working on full members and Tolkien onlies
Orodreth V: I can't even play any games online, so you know more then I do.
VardaValar1: Forum, AIM are also main contacts
VardaValar1: Email
VardaValar1: Pardon, lot of talk coming at me outside this chat window :-)
ArPharazonV: btw, do we need to discuss the nearby future in the rp? or can I just singlehandedly write a scouting-report that could prove to be quite the important aspect of our further adventures?
VardaValar1: You could report to King Thranduil in a post?
GaldorV: thanks for answering that Varda
VardaValar1: My pleasure
VardaValar1: I am your contact for all things and you may ask anything. I will try to find out for you
VardaValar1: I also take rants : )
ArPharazonV: yes, I will report to King Thranduil in a post... but that post may be as soon as the following week
ArPharazonV: and I don't think I should create that report all by myself
VardaValar1: Not sure of what you are asking
GaldorV: ...Away again doing some dishes... back soon
ArPharazonV: well, first of all: the report: I've been planning on having my brother Calaron, and his force of advanced scouts, just returning from a mission in the far North
VardaValar1: That is not the group that just rode in?
ArPharazonV: yes, it is
ArPharazonV: they were waylaid on the return-journey
VardaValar1: We are talking about the Forum rp under "Middle-earth Online, Scouting Ahead, Halls of Thranduil"
ArPharazonV: a few scouts escaped, warned me and my family, and we went to rescue them
ArPharazonV: that's the story I've been telling
VardaValar1: So you can report to Thranduil in the atrium and bring the story lines together?
ArPharazonV: now we've come back with the entire rescued party
ArPharazonV: in the atrium? that would be a good idea
VardaValar1: That would bring all the characters to the same spot
ArPharazonV: but as I recall, the King just left, and Auros went after him
VardaValar1: They went to see you : )
ArPharazonV: assuming they were coming to meet us
VardaValar1: Could meet him in the atrium since you are headed to the feast
VardaValar1: I made up the atrium by the way
VardaValar1: Not canon
VardaValar1: Just seemed likely
ArPharazonV: besides, I have to assume not even I know much about what my brother has seen, and I'm not sure if what he has to report would be readily permitted to be overheard by our party
ArPharazonV: for it might not seem directly related from the first moments
VardaValar1: So you can ask Thranduil for a private audience in his study
ArPharazonV: although, of course, the evil they have seen there will be connected to what we have already seen...
VardaValar1: Don't have to give away your plot here : )
ArPharazonV: is that fully reported to Thranduil, btw?
ArPharazonV: what we have encountered on the road?
VardaValar1: He will take all reports, use them to confirm
VardaValar1: We have reported what our escort party has seen
ArPharazonV: for the King himself could make the connection, and advise all of us to meet together and discuss the entire thing
VardaValar1: He knows there is a connection
VardaValar1: He won't need us to discuss it. He just wants our input
ArPharazonV: or, I could say, Calaron has already filled me in on what he has seen, and I can make the connection myself, and advise us to all meet when the report is made
VardaValar1: He is sending more warriors with our escort
VardaValar1: The king will see the connection. He's bright : )
ArPharazonV: but perhaps it would be unfitting for Calaron to even give his own brother, high in status though I may be, a classified report
VardaValar1: Let Thranduil deal with the problem. What else are kings good for? ;-)
ArPharazonV: so the question is mainly, when the connection will be made
ArPharazonV: after the report is given, or before?
the loser emu: :]
VardaValar1: Is it a connection thaat we haven't already made?
ArPharazonV: depends, we do not know yet what Calaron has seen
ArPharazonV: therefore I suggested Calaron would already have reported somewhat to me
ArPharazonV: ArPharazonV: but perhaps it would be unfitting for Calaron to even give his own brother, high in status though I may be, a classified report
VardaValar1: ok - we'll let Thranduil take the reports. You can say he already has and connected our report with that one
ArPharazonV: ah, that could do
VardaValar1: You don't have to tell him
ArPharazonV: I can just skip the entire report-giving, and head on the atrium
ArPharazonV: where we can connect the reports ourself
ArPharazonV: *ourselves
GwaihirValar: back
ArPharazonV: but that brings up one more point: Auros
VardaValar1: You can say you already did it and Thranduil will be calling a meeting of his advisors and captains
VardaValar1: Auros is in the middle of everything ; )
ArPharazonV: Auros, as he said, followed the King's ensemble
ArPharazonV: but I wonder if the King would allow him to witness the report
Menelvagor Valar: PM him with an excerpt from the report :-)
ArPharazonV: could be... but I'd rather not fill in the entire story at once, but in pieces, adding before it's too late... as I have always done in this rp
Menelvagor Valar: and Auros will learn of the report one way or another
VardaValar1: Auros, Linqil, Harana, Billboh are at the Visitor's Center in WoW
Menelvagor Valar: because the report is connected to your mission
ArPharazonV: so this skipping the initial report could be a great solution
ArPharazonV: to having to create the entire story at once, without being able to add to it later
VardaValar1: And another problem solved
ArPharazonV: perhaps this would be best discussed with input from Eonwe
VardaValar1: He's busy making our WoW guild branch at the moment : )
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: but still, we have to decide quite soon... did he witness the initial report-giving?
VardaValar1: Aerandir has a topic we would like to get into now
ArPharazonV: as such, he could add his own little details to what my brother would have seen
VardaValar1: Auros needs to know, so probably
ArPharazonV: ok

Tolkien Chat:
ArPharazonV: go ahead, Aerandir
ArPharazonV: :-)
Aerandir V: ring of barahir
Aerandir V: given to barahir(of course) by finrod felegund for saving finrod at the fourth battle
Aerandir V: it became an heirloom finding its way through the ages all the way to aragorn
VardaValar1: Thus giving it the other name, The Ring of Felagund
Menelvagor Valar: that it made it's way down to Aragorn is not all that hard to explain
ArPharazonV: I remember it going through the Numenorean line? at least we'd know it didn't spend all those years in Rivendell
ArPharazonV: it would have passed to Silmarien, heir to the line in the fourth generation, though being female she had to pass the rule over Numenor to her younger brother
Menelvagor Valar: Barahir -> Beren -> Dior -> Elwing -> Elrond / Elros
VardaValar1: Pardon, Fangorn just came home and I'm slightly afk
Menelvagor Valar: Elros in that case
ArPharazonV: that would explain the Ring going to Elendil, and not to Pharazon... where it surely would have been buried in the Forgotten Caves
ArPharazonV: so Silmarien became heir to the heirlooms of the bloodline, yet not to the rule of Numenor
the loser emu: Im popping in and out.
the loser emu: Making dinner and reading.. >.>
Menelvagor Valar: Before Silmarien, I believe a few women have had the rule of Numenor
ArPharazonV: before Silmarien?
ArPharazonV: I thought she was the first?
ArPharazonV: only the great-granddaughter of Elros, or something?
Aerandir V: yes
Aerandir V: look at the lineofkings file if you have it [Note Line of Kings by Eru-(Valar) is in our Encyclopedia under Men]
Menelvagor Valar: I had it
Menelvagor Valar: must have lost it somewhere
ArPharazonV: if I recall, she was given the rule of Andunie in the West
ArPharazonV: where it passed on to Elendil
ArPharazonV: after a few thousand years, that is
VardaValar1: I need to leave, unfortunately
VardaValar1: Please save the transcript
Menelvagor Valar: too bad
ArPharazonV: really? that's a shame
ArPharazonV: I will
Menelvagor Valar: will do
VardaValar1: Thanks
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1: Was hoping to be in on this discussion. Maybe we can re-tread the road another time too : )
VardaValar1: Namarie
GaldorV: namarie
VardaValar1 has left the room.
GaldorV: I'm out too going to eat and play D2x ...maybe run into Finfarfin *saves script*
GaldorV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Elros-Vardamir-TarAmandil-TarElendil-Silmarien
ArPharazonV: nope, first female eldest
ArPharazonV: Tar-Miniature... I mean Minyatur being the very first King
ArPharazonV: I got the line of kings from here
Aerandir V: what year is minyatur ?
ArPharazonV: it's Elros
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: the very first
Aerandir V: ok
ArPharazonV: until 442 SA
Aerandir V: what other items are passed through the stories like this?
ArPharazonV: hmm.... I think I read something about that in UT
ArPharazonV: a ring, a spear, a helmet...
ArPharazonV: ah, here we go
ArPharazonV: note 2 to "a description of Numenor" in UT
FarmerMaggotV: hm, I'm off to play D2x, namarie
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: The King's sword: Aranruth, the sword of Thingol
ArPharazonV: the Ring of Barahir
ArPharazonV: the great Axe of Tuor
ArPharazonV: and the bow of Bregor of the House of Beor
ArPharazonV: "Only the Ring of Barahir father of Beren One-Hand survived the Downfall; for it was given by Tar-Elendil to his daughter Silmarien and was preserved in the House of the Lords of Andunië"
ArPharazonV: well, that answers that question... I guess the rest came to Pharazon
ArPharazonV: happy me :-)
Aerandir V: you have them yet you cant see to find them in the caves you are sealed in untill the end of days
ArPharazonV: aye, probably
ArPharazonV: although the chances are small I'd carry an axe, sword, and bow, with me into battle all at once... especially if they're heirlooms of my house
ArPharazonV: probably left them in Armenelos, or on my ship... so they would have gone into the deep chasm
ArPharazonV: quite a shame, really
Aerandir V: and then deep sea explorers find artifcts of a previously unknown culture near the mid atlantic rift...
ArPharazonV: I knew it! I knew I should have taken Sea-Archaeology instead of Prehistoric Archaeology... oh well, I guess I'll just have to settle with finding the remains of Rivendell and Minas Tirith ;-)
ArPharazonV: so, anybody here besides Aerandir and I?
GwaihirValar: doesn't look like it
ArPharazonV: ah, Gwai
GilraenV: I'm reading
ArPharazonV: does our groom-to-be have any insights?
ArPharazonV: did I spell that right?
Aerandir V: is there any way to rationalize peter jacksons idea to have 80000 skulls come out of the caves in the paths of the dead?
ArPharazonV: well, I was curious about that too
ArPharazonV: but I found a sentence in Rotk:
Aerandir V: I was watching extended ed. spe. features and he said was cool when they were trying to get it to work
ArPharazonV: hmm... where is it...
ArPharazonV: it said something about the Oath-breakers fleeing back to the mountain-vales, and there 'dwindling slowly'
ArPharazonV: so they didn't die all at once, but kept reproducing, probably for many generations
ArPharazonV: and slowly dwindled until they died out
ArPharazonV: depending on the size of the people, that could account for thousands of bodies over 3000 years
ArPharazonV: which would explain a large amount of skulls
the loser emu: :-)
ArPharazonV: but even when adding any adventurers which could have gotten lost or killed in the Paths themselves, 80000 seems like an awful lot
ArPharazonV: and you just have to wonder how was around to sort out all the different body-parts ;-)
ArPharazonV: *who
Aerandir V: that old guy that died on the porch that was spoken of in the book
ArPharazonV: aye, I read that
ArPharazonV: I thought he could be the very last of the Oath-breakers... but seeing as he resembled the statues, and the statues looked like the Wild Men of Druadan Forest, it seems reasonable to assume he was one of them
ArPharazonV: and I don't think the Wild Men would have wasted their time ordening the Paths of the Dead ;-)
Aerandir V: werent the oath breakers rlated to the wild men? they werent from numenor were they?
ArPharazonV: aye, that could be true
ArPharazonV: probably was
Aerandir V: they never tell much about their region of influence except the mtns
ArPharazonV: but if they were in contact with each other, would it not seem more likely that the Wild Men would have prevented the Oath-breakers from dying out?
ArPharazonV: although Isildur's Curse could have been so powerful that even partial mingling of the peoples would not have saved them
Aerandir V: they seem to have special senses they might feel the curse like later men were afraid of the mtn
ArPharazonV: aye, so they could have broken contact...
Aerandir V: has "magic" been used by men like isildur did anywhere else. to doom an entie people seems pretty powerful
FallenGlory has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I think we discussed like 2 weeks ago... we came to the conclusion the Valar must have had a hand in it, perhaps for the purpose of making them ready for the final battle 3000 years later
ArPharazonV: divine intervention to support Isildur's Curse
ArPharazonV: there are, however, many examples of prophecies and curses coming to fulfillment in the works of Tolkien, and not just those by Mandos
Aerandir V: "the valar did it!"
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: for example, Glorfindel predicted that the Witch-King could not be slain by Man
ArPharazonV: yet, of course, there would be no way to put this to the test except by killing him, in which the case the prediction itself is mute
Aerandir V: when that seen with eowyn came in theatres the women cheered
the loser emu: :-)
HeruRasa has left the room.
ArPharazonV: so, Glorfindel actually foresaw that it was no man, but Eowyn, would slay the Witch-King... although the details were unknown to him
ArPharazonV: there are other examples as well
Aerandir V: boromir frodo and i think farimir had dreams
ArPharazonV: the words of Malbeth the Seer, for instance
Aerandir V: but they diddnt know what they saw
ArPharazonV: who foresaw Aragorn going into the Paths of the Dead
ArPharazonV: or Aragorn himself, even, when he stated that he would meet Eomer again in battle, though the hosts of Mordor would stand between them
ArPharazonV: and, yes, the dream that came to Boromor and Faramir
ArPharazonV: *Boromir
ArPharazonV: as well as any others who came to the councils of Elrond, without actually having been summoned by Elrond
ArPharazonV: foresight? fate? divine intervention? who can say
Aerandir V: ever had anyone ask you why sam diddnt just push frodo in with the ring after all they went through to get it there?
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: amazing, I thought of that myself not so long ago
ArPharazonV: just as many things you mention today... I was also the one who presented the Oath-breaker topic 2 weeks ago
ArPharazonV: similar minds, perhaps ;-)
Aerandir V: Im the only one in my family that read the books and i get a lot of questions like that
Aerandir V: many times its because of deviations from the book
the loser emu: :]
ArPharazonV: but anyway, I don't think Sam's love would have gone under for Sam's duty to the world
Aerandir V: liek when aragorn tells the age of te uruk hai by their tracks
Aerandir V: that took several hours
ArPharazonV: he would have tried to persuade Frodo, with everything he could, perhaps tried to take the ring and toss it in himself.. but he never would have shoved in Frodo
ArPharazonV: same thing: why did Elrond not toss in Isildur when he refused to throw the thing in?
ArPharazonV: interracial war or not, it would have been his duty to prevent Sauron from coming back
GwaihirValar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Don't think it would've been that easy, even for Elrond.
Aerandir V: to force someone to do things is related to evil in tolkiens books but trying to get people to see whats right is good
Aerandir V: the sarumans vs gandalfs techniques
ArPharazonV: so Gandalf forcing Pippin to come with him to Minas Tirith would be related to evil? ;-)
Aerandir V: hmm...
Eonwe Valar: Pippin Chose to go when he looked into the Palantir :}
Orodreth V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: in both cases, it was both for the greater good, as well for the good of the individual... assuming Elrond forced Isildur to toss in the Ring, and not throwing Isildur in himself
ArPharazonV: and Pippin did not know what destiny it would bring him if he looked in the Palantir
ArPharazonV: yet Gandalf did it, and it was good
ArPharazonV: and Elrond didn't, and it was good as well?
Aerandir V: this is the same philosophy as trying to figure out where govt. lmit should be. you need authority for organization. but when does authority become corrupted lust for power?
ArPharazonV: besides, did Isildur not 'choose' the duty of tossing in the Ring when he took it from Sauron's smoldering finger?
Aerandir V: why else would he go to the crack of doom?
the loser emu: I need to leave for a bit
the loser emu: Adios
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ArPharazonV: aye, he did... but he didn't go through with his choice
ArPharazonV: failed to grasp the consequences, because he would have it as an heirloom
Aerandir V: is elrond responsible for all the trouble the ring has caused for not stopping it then?
ArPharazonV: so Elrond had just as much the right to force Isildur to throw the Ring in, as Gandalf did when he forced Pippin to go with him
ArPharazonV: no, he's not responsible
Aerandir V: there has to be something else to it
ArPharazonV: but he must have known the better thing to do was have it end there once and for all
ArPharazonV: I'm not blaming him, just wondering why he didn't do it
ArPharazonV: do you think the Ring had a hold of him too?
Aerandir V: he wouldnt let boromir just walk away with it even though he knew the consequences in both cases. it is evil and no good can come of it.
ArPharazonV: indeed... so why did he let Isildur walk away with it?
Aerandir V: the ring does have a will of its own . I mention these other characters but forget the ring itself
ArPharazonV: and that will and influence could be stronger the closer to Mount Doom, and at that point it may have influenced Elrond himself, even from a short distance
ArPharazonV: also considering Elrond bore one of the Elven-rings himself, it would have left him just a tiny bit vulnerable to its ruel
ArPharazonV: *rule
Aerandir V: what would happen if elrond had ended up killing isildur, overlord of the free men?
ArPharazonV: hmm.... good question
ArPharazonV: perhaps he would have been able to cover it up, and say Isildur slipped :-)
Aerandir V: "that elf just killed our king!"
ArPharazonV: although he was one of the lords of the Elves, and holds great wisdom... he would have been able to convince at least the Elves, and probably part of the Men, that it was the right thing to do
ArPharazonV: still, it would create a full-out war between Men and Elves...
ArPharazonV: Elves and Elf-friends, even
Aerandir V: so instead men and elves could loosely stick together and fight an all out war against sauron
ArPharazonV: right, but Sauron was a bigger threat than Men and Elves combined, and they all knew it
Aerandir V: war against the lt of morgoth or your brothers?
Menelvagor Valar: I´m on my way out
ArPharazonV: Namarie
Menelvagor Valar: you´ll save the transcript, phar=
ArPharazonV: sure will :-)
ArPharazonV: and as I said, the Men of that time were close Elf-friends, and Elrond could perhaps have relied on that friendship to convince most of the Men that it was the right thing...
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: so perhaps a bit strained, and some slight emnity between some of the Men against all the Elves, but still...
ArPharazonV: the true Elf-friends would have remained on the Elves' side
ArPharazonV: seeing, perhaps, what would have occurred if Elrond did not do this deed...
Aerandir V: there has to be a reason for elronds lack of action. if it was just the ring, what about after they went back to minas tirith?
ArPharazonV: but, alas! he didn't, and the decline of both Arnor and Gondor were the results
ArPharazonV: did Elrond come with him to Minas Tirith?
ArPharazonV: perhaps he settled in the choice had made, for good of for evil, and didn't get the chance to change his mind...
ArPharazonV: after all, it was not long after that Isildur perished and the Ring was lost to all sight for thousands of years
ArPharazonV: *the choice he had made
Aerandir V: i wonder what it would be like watching someone ridoe off with the seed of the greatest danger on (middle)earth hanging from his neck
ArPharazonV: I don't think Elrond was happy :-)
ArPharazonV: how do you think Elendil felt when Pharazon prepared for the invasion of Valinor?
Aerandir V: you crazy fools
Aerandir V: may eru have mercy on us all
ArPharazonV: Isildur was corrupted by the Ring...
Aerandir V: (or at least the faithful)
ArPharazonV: Pharazon was corrupted by Sauron himself, as well as his immense power, and his background
ArPharazonV: *his own immense power
ArPharazonV: perhaps neither were to blame at heart... or so I keep saying to defend Pharazon's name :-)
ArPharazonV: I did not choose him for a reason ;-)
Aerandir V: heh
ArPharazonV: *for no reason
ArPharazonV: rrah, what's with me today
ArPharazonV: to me Pharazon represents humanity in its most vulnerable form, the weakness and corruption that can take us all
ArPharazonV: given the opportunity... power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
ArPharazonV: fascinating character
ArPharazonV: so, why did you choose Aerandir? :-)
Aerandir V: I like the idea of exploring the seas with earendil and seeing all the coasts of middle eart
ArPharazonV: :-)
Aerandir V: there are so many shadows of stories about earendil that were never filled out
ArPharazonV: aye, indeed
Aerandir V: he killed ungoliant
ArPharazonV: according to one story, yes
ArPharazonV: the other is that she devoured herself at last
Aerandir V: saw pygmies in the hot south
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, that reminds me
ArPharazonV: something I read in the Pelennor Fields chapter
Aerandir V: there are rumors of a great sea adventure story that could have been
ArPharazonV: a reference to apes in the dark woods of the South... the only reference to the jungles and the tropics I've ever seen in Tolkien's work
Aerandir V: well his world maps have a continent that resembles africa
Aerandir V: and asia to the east
ArPharazonV: aye, that's true
ArPharazonV: but further south than Harad, or the stories of Earendil, he never went in his stories
Aerandir V: and there is that huge wedge shaped one where austraila and the indonesian islands should be
ArPharazonV: except for this small reference to the apes of the south
Aerandir V: I just imagine what it would have been like if tolkien had written an illiad or gullivers travels type story of adventures at sea
ArPharazonV: Odyssee, you mean?
Aerandir V: ah! yes
ArPharazonV: yes, it would have been a book in itself, perhaps :-)
Aerandir V: the closest thing to a story of earendil ive seen is the poem by bilbo in lotr
Aerandir V: everything else is only partly done
ArPharazonV: aye, like the Lost Tales
ArPharazonV: darn, can't find the exact quote...
Aerandir V: thats what makes it feel like a real mythology to me, but you cant ever really uncover the answers like in actual mythologies
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: that was his goal, aye... to make a Mythology for England, as it had none of its own
Aerandir V: there are so many versions of the sames story you cant help but feel it was developed by many individuals of the culture
ArPharazonV: I usually go with the 'and some say' :-)
Aerandir V: silm is just like an abbreviation of all the writing there is
ArPharazonV: including a mix of both monotheism and polytheism... which is quite ingenious
Aerandir V: I had an idea like that when i was a little kid. I thought , what if the greek gods were just stronger angels?
Aerandir V: I never went anywhere with the idea
ArPharazonV: I've never come up with that :-)
Aerandir V: my parents then told me they werent real
ArPharazonV: I'm not religious, so I basically discarded both Monotheism and Polytheism... to me they were just unrelated stories, fun for reading, but nothing more
ArPharazonV: I never put down those links
Aerandir V: they ould always just be technologically advaned aliens that take on the identity of the gods of those they enslaved...
ArPharazonV: Stargate? :-)
Aerandir V: ...then they buried the stargate...
Aerandir V: ever watch the show?
ArPharazonV: aye, I did
ArPharazonV: for a long time
ArPharazonV: and the movie
Aerandir V: R D anderson was recognized by the USAF for making them look good
Aerandir V: there is a comp game coming out too
ArPharazonV: I... can't find it anymore... where is that reference to the South??
Aerandir V: probably where the mumakil first show up
ArPharazonV: perhaps, perhaps.... but I thought it was a comparison to the swarming Orcs
ArPharazonV: nope, can't find it
ArPharazonV: oh well, something to bring up in the next meeting :-)
Aerandir V: remember that seen in rotk SE where the witch kin blows up gandalfs staff?
Aerandir V: what is taht about?
Aerandir V: then gandalf has it cack in the next scene
Aerandir V: *back
ArPharazonV: hahaha...
ArPharazonV: spare staff?
ArPharazonV: for just such an occasion?
Aerandir V: I liked that they got the flaming sword in, but a nazgul overpowering an istari?
ArPharazonV: well, it was not exactly sure who was more powerful
ArPharazonV: Gandalf said that their contest had not yet come, when Denethor asked him why he fled from the Rammas
Aerandir V: It seemed to be a sign of sarumans loss of power and significance when his was destroyed
ArPharazonV: and when the Black Captain came through the gate, they met... and neither budged before the another
Aerandir V: it jsst seemed to be a pointless and confusing part of the scene
ArPharazonV: the Captain left immediately, however, when the Rohirrim came... to remount his flying steed, and wreak havoc among them
ArPharazonV: which is brought back in that scene
Aerandir V: yes, but the staff thing seems like a bad idea
ArPharazonV: still, an undecisive stand-off would have been better than the Witch-King overpowering him, breaking his staff, and yet flying away because he had more urgent things to do
ArPharazonV: though it brings more excitement to the people who don't think deeper about it, it just doesn't seem right to me...
Aerandir V: i dont think he would have ben able to overpower gandalf...
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ArPharazonV: besides, Gandalf did say to Gimli that he himself was the most dangerous one he'd ever come across, unless he was brought before the Dark Lord himself
Aerandir V: maia vs man with pseudo sorcery?
ArPharazonV: which would show that he himself was convinced that he was more powerful than the Witch-King, or any of Sauron's servants
ArPharazonV: including Saruman
Aerandir V: just call that part of the scene a "jackson moment"
ArPharazonV: and I for one believe that he stated the truth... that he was the most powerful in Middle-Earth at that time, surpassed only by Sauron
ArPharazonV: but yes, a jackson moment would be a good description :-)
ArPharazonV: as well as for the 80000 skulls, probably
Aerandir V: the other bad maia were defeated by him, balrog, saruman, blue wizards diddnt stop him from his goal
Aerandir V: his efforts led to downfall of sauron even
ArPharazonV: ah, the blue wizards... I still think they were actually of the good guys
ArPharazonV: as one book states (a part of HoME, I believe), they might have been trying to counter Sauron in the East
Aerandir V: it also says somewhere that they formed magic cults
ArPharazonV: and if it were not for them, the Easterling-host would have been far greater, less divided, and 'punctual', shall we say
ArPharazonV: yes, that as well... it's full of controversies
ArPharazonV: which is part of Tolkien's creative power, I guess :-)
Aerandir V: I think they went neutral not aiding west or east
ArPharazonV: I say they were good guys... that only Saruman went evil, and that only because of his dedication to the lore and power of the Ring, and the Palantir may have helped in that as well
Aerandir V: it happens many times taht lust for knowledge causes a downfall
ArPharazonV: aye
ArPharazonV: Feanor? ;-)
Aerandir V: the elvesand their jewels, feanors pride in his masterwork
Aerandir V: numenoreans and their technological superiority
ArPharazonV: aye... but the downfall of the Numenoreans was perhaps more a search for power and immortality than it was for knowledge
ArPharazonV: Pharazon was convinced that nothing could stand up to him... he did not invade Valinor for its libraries ;-)
Aerandir V: elves of hollin and their ring craft
ArPharazonV: the Elves of Hollin, aye... they were so dedicated to preservation, and the slowing down of decay, that they made the biggest mistakes they could have done
ArPharazonV: trusting Sauron, and creating the Rings
Aerandir V: he was so sure of his own technology, (both steel and hygene, cant have thousands of troops without a good birth rate)
ArPharazonV: lust for knowledge is what we are discussing.. not the possession of it... the possession of knowledge and technology would indeed be a factor in the overconfidence of Numenor
ArPharazonV: but I gotta go, sorry... 't was great conversing with you
ArPharazonV: sleep-time in Europe :-)
GilraenV: nah
GilraenV: just for the sensible ones
Aerandir V: eat time here
Aerandir V: bye
Aerandir V has left the room.
GilraenV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: if I were sensible, I would have left hours ago...
ArPharazonV: anyway, Arwen and Eonwe seem to be afk, and there's just us 3 left...
ArPharazonV: so I'll be saving!
ArPharazonV: "and there was much rejoicing" :-)