Valar Guild

August 14, 2005 Meeting

5pm ESDT (GMT -5)

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
IRC:, join channel #valarguild. Public Chat Valar
Sigma Chat: click on  Type in your guild name as the user name.
Say a greeting when you enter on any of these platforms so we'll know you're there!
Bridging program by Farmer Maggot-(V)
All Bridges up, operated by Farmer and Varda, aided by Pharazon.
Back to News
Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon-(V),
FarmerMaggot-(V), and Varda-(Valar)

Attending: (11):
    Members: ArathornValar, ArPharazonV (presiding: Tolkien chat), Eonwe Valar, Finwe-(V)/ aranfinwe, Gil-galad-(V)/ Xseanzee disco, GilraenV, Grimbold V, Farmer Maggot-(V), Menelvagor Valar, VardaValar1 (presiding: business)
    Guest: Pengolodh (became a Full Member during the Tolkien Chat, now Pengolodh-(V))
    Isildur-(V) spotted gaming in Bnet
    Fangorn-(Valar) passed info to the AIM meeting while in WoW. Ulmo afk in WoW
    Eowyn and Sauron said hello's over-the-shoulder
    From Europe: Feanora, Lalaith (hithershore) may drop by sometime, keep an eye out. Hithershore had a guest today and could not come.

Meeting Begins
    Games page
    D2X: Runewords
    WoW Screenshots
    Tolkien Encyclopedia
    rp: text role-play in the Valar Guild forum 
       WoW Europe
       WoW USA: Lothar
    Diablo 2: Lord of Destruction: Ladder 3
    Varda's topic: Why Manwe did not simply blow Ar-Pharazon out of the water when his fleet attacked.
    ArathornValar: Regarding elves and why Tolkien saw then as tall and noble.. while most mythology I've read sees them as tiny mischievous sprites.
    Pharazon's topic tangent: The fading or shrinking of Elves and Hobbits in the Fourth Age.
    New Full Member, Pengolodh-(V), announced.
    WoW talk

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya
bnetValar has entered the room.
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): Bridge fully operational, Cap'tn!
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): *Capt'n :p
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: will you be leading the meeting from Bnet?
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Wow! The bridge is already running nicely! Thanks
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): sure is
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): wasn't me though....
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): No, was checking to see if I needed to start up the bridge. Be there in a sec
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): I hit the Bnet reloader, didn't expect it all to go up :-)
ArPharazonV: I see
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Heading for AIM
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Oh, I saw Isildur-V for a second on
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): I sent him an Aiya but he disappeared
ArPharazonV: we got a new member in the High Guard today, in WoW, called Feanora... might be something to look into :-)
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): ahh, he's back
ArPharazonV: *waves to Isildur*
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Trying to whisper him again
ArPharazonV: hmm.... might not have been the appropriate greeting, considering the Akallabeth...
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Still ten minutes to meeting time, isn't it?
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): heh
ArPharazonV: Pharazon, Isildur, and... waves
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): He is in a private game, not responding
ArPharazonV: aye, 10 minutes
ArPharazonV: got to 53 today!
ArPharazonV: finished most of Maraudon this week, but the several attempts made to kill the Princess were quite unsuccesful.. so that's something to look forward to
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Congrats, Phar :-)
ArPharazonV: thanks
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: discovered this afternoon.... now systematically listening to and downloading all the music...
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
FarmerMaggotV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: I was wondering whether I went a little too far with my rp-post... but it seems I have gotten away with it ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
Pengolodh has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Glad you could make it!
VardaValar1: I'll start calling in others now that the bridge seems to be workign
Menelvagor Valar: Who is Pengolodh if I amy ask?
Pengolodh: Aiya, mellonath!
Menelvagor Valar: may*
VardaValar1: Pengolodh asked to join us, and I invited him :-)
Pengolodh: (Mystery guest, sign in please!)
ArPharazonV: name sounds familiar....
ArPharazonV: Elf or Man?
VardaValar1: heheh
Pengolodh: Elf of Gondolin.
ArPharazonV: okay
VardaValar1: ahh, he wants the Tolkien info ;-)
VardaValar1: Are you both saving transcripts, Menel and Phar?
Menelvagor Valar: Lalaith can't come, or at least not yet, she's got a friend over
ArPharazonV: unless I accidentally press escape, I probably will, Varda!
VardaValar1: We tend to run late
VardaValar1: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: I probably won't tonight, I need to rise early tomorrow, so I am going to exit early
ArPharazonV: like I did last time..
VardaValar1: Thanks. I'll add my bit to the quilt
Pengolodh: (Pen. survived the fall of Gond. and later resided with Gil-Galad.)
VardaValar1: Okies, guess we'll excuse you from gaveling then
ArPharazonV: what was Pengolodh famous for?
ArathornValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Arathorn :-)
ArathornValar: Heya
Pengolodh: I believe he wrote about the Fall of Gondolin itself. He was a loremaster.
Menelvagor Valar: The name is not on the names page though
ArPharazonV: ah, right
Pengolodh: Last of the Lambengolmor to leave ME.
VardaValar1: A zillion names are not on the Names page
VardaValar1: Do better hitting the Encyc for fresh names
Pengolodh: Pen. is only really mentioned in the HoME series.
VardaValar1: We love HoMe, so we have no excuse ;-)
Pengolodh: lol
GilraenV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Pengolodh: Aiya
aranfinwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Hi Gilraen!
aranfinwe: aiyas
VardaValar1: Finwe! At work?
aranfinwe: yeppers
VardaValar1: We'll try to keep the noise down then ;-)
GilraenV: Aiya folks
aranfinwe: lol
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: Hey all
VardaValar1: Fangorn says Ulmo is in WoW but AFK
Menelvagor Valar: Pengolodh isn't on the encyc either =-O
VardaValar1: Fangorn, Sauron, and Eowyn say hi
ArathornValar: Im there too and afk :-P
VardaValar1: *blush* Sorry. Luckily Pen here is correcting that problem
VardaValar1: He is in a paper on the Fall of Gondolin, at least, another spelling
Pengolodh: I will indeed do so.
Pengolodh: Yes, another spelling and a different fate.
VardaValar1: Thank you, thank you
VardaValar1: Ahh, the versions... : )
VardaValar1: Lets you write a meatier article
Pengolodh: Actually, it's great because then you have all these different sources to cite. It makes anyone willing to buy more books look VERY scholarly.
VardaValar1: hehe - nice
Grimbold V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Grimbold!
Grimbold V: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Good you could make it1
Grimbold V: Glad to finally be back on the Net period..chatting and gaming
VardaValar1: Isildur is in Bnet but I can't seem to communicate
VardaValar1: One more try with him and then we can start.
Pengolodh has left the room.
FarmerMaggotV: was AFK, bridge problems?
VardaValar1: Back
VardaValar1: Hi there. The Bridge seems to be fine.
FarmerMaggotV: k
ArPharazonV: it failed a short time here
VardaValar1: Isildur may not know how to reply
VardaValar1: Where here? Sigma?
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): here, I mean
VardaValar1: Sigma here. Thanks
Pengolodh has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back
Pengolodh: TY
VardaValar1: Anyone else having stability problems?
Eonwe Valar: Well, while we wait, I'm surprised everyone can hear Auros' and Calion's "quiet" conversation :}
ArPharazonV: no, not really..
ArPharazonV: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I'm doing fine :}
VardaValar1: So the Bridge went down a sec, Pen crashed once, otherwise fine
ArPharazonV: I was thinking that myself, Eonwe
Grimbold V: well after drinking quite a few pints from the Faire in WoW I'm getting a bit dizzy so yea mild stability probs here *smirk*
VardaValar1: It's the ears, Eonwe. Maybe we need a re-write on that : )
VardaValar1: Somebody steady the Rider and we'll start the business meeting :-)
ArPharazonV: perhaps our 'grim tones' were a bit louder than we had hoped? ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I figured the word "quiet" with so many Evles around would be understodd as "quiet" for Elves as well :}
VardaValar1: It would. It's *gasp* a mistake, Eonwe :-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that's what I was thinking about adding for my next piece: an implication the conversation got louder than expected.
VardaValar1: Pen, we are referring to the text rp on the Forum
Pengolodh: Ah, OK
ArPharazonV: did I go a little too far with my post? with the whole cruel and merciless thing etc?
VardaValar1: That would be kind, or not expecting Silvans to be that sensitive to sound, woods are exceptionally quiet
VardaValar1: Pen, you might get a kick out of checking it out sometime, maybe join in. Costs nothing ;-)
VardaValar1: ok, starting for all those time-impaired folk

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
Pengolodh: <Will do>
VardaValar1: Membership News:
VardaValar1: Fili is back
VardaValar1: His comp died a horrible, virusy death but he thinks he has it operating again
VardaValar1: He is starting back into gaming cautiously and hopes to make it to meetings again
VardaValar1: Thorondor is busy in D2:LoD and hopes some more of us will try to give him competition on the new Ladder : )
VardaValar1: We will have a Guild ladder, as the Bnet Ladder is just a mess, as usual
ArathornValar: heh I started an Amazon in LOD ladder.. have to have at least one char in it since it restarted ... FAMOUS Ara last words !
VardaValar1: Pengolodh, for those asking in side windows, is interested in joining and might be with us in WoW
VardaValar1: Yay Ara!
Pengolodh: /bows
VardaValar1: and may help out with the Encyc
VardaValar1: Glad you could come!
Pengolodh: Thank you! Glad to be here.
VardaValar1: Pardon, I'm going to try to answer all the windows in the chat, as they tend to say the same things
VardaValar1: Phar, you mentioned Feanorian and some others in Europe who might pop by here?
VardaValar1: Do they know how to enter?
VardaValar1: I'll let you and Menel sweat that out : )
ArPharazonV: no, I don't think he knows yet about Feanora
VardaValar1: If there is no further member news...?
VardaValar1: Ahh, you can discuss it in a side window then : ) Fill him in!
ArPharazonV: just did :-)

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: yay Phar : )
VardaValar1: Our hard-working Eonwe is doing a lot of work on the Games page
VardaValar1: so we sent him more!
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Thorondor is finding Runewords for the new D2X ladder for him
VardaValar1: And other fun stuff should be showing up
VardaValar1: Be sure to keep him updated. We can't let his priest on WoW get ahead of my priest... Oh, you didn't hear that!
VardaValar1: Arathorn, you've been doing a lot on your page. Would you like to tell about it?
Pengolodh has left the room.
VardaValar1: Pen is having problems staying in the chat room
Pengolodh has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
Pengolodh: Thanks.
VardaValar1: Grimbold was just referring to some of the fun pictures Arathorn put up from WoW,
VardaValar1: where the two of them attended the Faire. :-)
VardaValar1: Have fun looking through all the new stuff!
VardaValar1: Sorry, left out a Member item
VardaValar1: Gaffer, Alatar's son and member of honor, turned 11 years old this last Friday!
VardaValar1: I lost track of Melkor's birthdays, but when they ask what our age range is, we now need to raise the low end to 11 : )
VardaValar1: The high end is over 63, not sure exactly what it is currently
VardaValar1: We'll have to ask Orome about his father's age ;-)
VardaValar1: Back to Web
VardaValar1: The Encyc continues
VardaValar1: articles still are being separated into singles
VardaValar1: for the Alphabetical index
VardaValar1: which is still giving me problems
VardaValar1: We will overcome. We will have an alphabetical index.
VardaValar1: Just not today....
VardaValar1: Any other Web news?
ArPharazonV: hmm.... just watching the new screenies.... Caverns of Time are still blocked?
ArPharazonV: but I guess that falls under gaming, a bit
VardaValar1: Then, on to

VardaValar1: Gaming!
VardaValar1: WoW
VardaValar1: WoW Europe. Do you have a report?
ArPharazonV: *points to Menelvagor*
VardaValar1: Problem with Europe, they fall asleep before meeting time sometimes : )
Menelvagor Valar: nothing much, except that we had a semi pick-up, semi- alliance raid on MC
ArathornValar: yeah Caverns cant be open yet
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): bridge gone and back again
Menelvagor Valar: after several tries, we (or rather they, after, I left) managed to kill Lucy
ArPharazonV: I suppose the Caverns are Nozdormu's Lair, Arathorn?
ArathornValar: hmm havent come across that entity anywhere
Menelvagor Valar: and although I could go into great detail about how, I think I'll leave it at this
ArathornValar: it's guarded by 3 dragons tho
ArPharazonV: one of the five aspects... the Bronze Dragon of Time
ArPharazonV: know your warcraft-lore ;-)
ArathornValar: nothign in gameplay pointing us there yet
ArathornValar: I never played warcraft
ArPharazonV: ah, too bad...
ArathornValar: Im strictly WoW and on
ArathornValar: you ask me to know of something I've never encountered :-P
VardaValar1: Need another person to run screenshots for another game
VardaValar1: Eonwe has to go very shortly
Eonwe Valar: Warcraft Lore can be found on the WoW website by the way.
ArPharazonV: read the novels, or study some lore-sites... or just read the books in the game itself ;-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe, could you give us the US WoW report?
Eonwe Valar: Sure.
Menelvagor Valar: I dare to bet you haven't encountered the 2-6 shaman trainer :P
Eonwe Valar: It boils down to this:Arathorn and I marched into Angor Fortress, beat down a Fire Elemental boss, and made it out with our skins and a few rocks,.. and a completed quest for Arathorn :}
VardaValar1: Way to go, Eonwe and Arathorn :-)
VardaValar1: We had larger groups during the week, but we can keep trying on Friday runs. Hoping for some high level runs if we can get together
Eonwe Valar: This was with my Paladin and his mage btw.
ArathornValar: Ok re pics..
ArathornValar: I've added a number (bignumber :-P) of pics broken up into locations with quests in each and such...
Pengolodh has left the room.
ArathornValar: also just added a Guild link re: Darkmoon Faire which Grimbold and I visited recently =)
ArathornValar: From main WoW pic menu link is called:DarkMoon Faire: Elwynn Forest near Goldshire
ArPharazonV: er.... the sigma-bridge ain't doing too well
ArathornValar: Much more to come next week re my own personal high level warlock's (60) checking out of other potential instances
Pengolodh has entered the room.
Pengolodh: (Hmm...connection keeps getting dropped by host. I think the problem is at the AIM end.)
ArathornValar: If anyone feels adventurous you're more than welcome to suggest places to scout out.. one of my fav things to do :-P
VardaValar1: Thanks, Arathorn :-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe, go ahead with the other report while you can?
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
ArPharazonV: got any Zul'Gurub ones yet?
Eonwe Valar: I've also decided to try having a discussion thread again for Friday Guild Questing.
GilraenV: I'm off, folks. Looong day tomorrow. Namarie.
VardaValar1: Namarie, Gilraen!
GilraenV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Eonwe Valar: A few suggestions are made as to where we can go, but if enough people come, we can go to more than one place :}
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Would be nice to run a low and a high group, since we tend to stay on late ;-)
Eonwe Valar: So, if you're playing Wow on Lothar (and hopefully you are if you can) go on over to the thread and chip in.
VardaValar1: Suggestions for runs are what we are looking for
Eonwe Valar: You'll find it the same place as questing reports.
Eonwe Valar: That's all from me.
ArathornValar: I came across a q in STV Ive never done b4 btw...
VardaValar1: Thank you Eonwe
VardaValar1: Thanks for staying long enough to report
Eonwe Valar: mp
VardaValar1: Diablo:
VardaValar1: The Ladder page will need your email help
ArathornValar: er ok I wont tell you bout the new quest then :-P
VardaValar1: Please email your account name used, and maybe a once a week update on your level
VardaValar1: So far I know of Thorondor, myself, Finarfin, and probably Gilraen. Arathorn also. :-)
VardaValar1: Any other Gaming news?
ArathornValar: Enticing Negolash: WoW quest.. anyone ever done it?
ArPharazonV: aye
ArPharazonV: did it a few days ago
ArPharazonV: it starts with a monogrammed sash, dropped by Mok'rash on Janeiro Point
ArathornValar: ok Ar is saying the giant drops it.. Ive killed him a gazillion time but never got the quest :-P
ArPharazonV: you sure it's the right giant? there are 3
ArathornValar: some thing Ill have to try now.. thanks Ar!
ArathornValar: in STV?
Pengolodh: Always get their name before you kill them.
ArathornValar: Ive only ever seen 1
Pengolodh: It's polite if nothing else.
VardaValar1: lol!
ArPharazonV: right, there are 3.... one of them is called Gorlash, I think
ArPharazonV: he drops the captain's chest on the southeast-coast
ArPharazonV: that's the only one most people see
ArathornValar: ahh ok, then what is this other giant for.. no otehr quest points you to him that I know of.. he's just for the random drop?
Pengolodh: He's a decoy.
ArPharazonV: then there's number 2, Mok'rash, on Janeiro point, west of BB
ArPharazonV: he drops a sash, which starts the quest
ArPharazonV: and that quest ultimately leads to the luring and slaying of Negolash, the third giant
ArPharazonV: who drops the captain's cutlass
ArathornValar: aha.. ok then Ill have to hunt him down *scribbles it into his todo list!..*
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
Xseanzee disco: hello
ArathornValar: I must have thought it was the same giant but just moved around.. names are familiar :-P
ArPharazonV: I believe he has a respawn of 2 hours.... so you might not find him immediately :-)
Pengolodh has left the room.
ArathornValar: think Ive only ever seen him once then
VardaValar1: I need to leave, as Pen is abou to run out of time
ArPharazonV: ok...

VardaValar1: Ar-Pharazon will be moderating the Tolkien Chat : )
ArPharazonV: unless anyone is better suited for the task than I!
VardaValar1: I will be mostly afk and scrolling
VardaValar1: Good to hear
ArPharazonV: ehrm... Varda... do you even have a topic?
ArPharazonV: or anyone else?
VardaValar1: The reason Manwe would step aside instead of blowing you out of the water? : )
VardaValar1: I'll let you re-state it ;-)
ArPharazonV: well, he didn't as much 'step aside'.... he went to Illuvatar to ask help
ArPharazonV: and with his help, the world was changed...
VardaValar1: Manwe could be said to have stepped aside
ArPharazonV: well, Man was Illuvatar's creation.... was Manw� even authorized to go into full-scale war without Eru?
VardaValar1: He did not want to attack the younger children of Iluvatar as he did not know the plan for them. It was not revealed before the Vision ended.
ArPharazonV: right, same thing... partially
ArPharazonV: you get the point
VardaValar1: ok, you guys jump in and have fun
VardaValar1: I need to work with Pen : )
ArPharazonV: come on people, you heard it, jump!
Grimbold V: *jumps then falls and hits his head remaining unconcious throughout the week*
ArPharazonV: well.... why did they have to alter the entire physical shape of Arda when 'blowing me out of the water' would do the trick just as nicely?
ArPharazonV: *tries to wake up Grimbold*
ArPharazonV: all who are still present, say Arrrgh! ...I mean, Aye!
aranfinwe: kinda-Arrrgh
aranfinwe: at work
Grimbold V: sorry I'm back and forth laundry
ArPharazonV: so, we have to half-ayes, and the rest is afk alltogether?
ArPharazonV: *two
FarmerMaggotV: I'm semi AFK, programming
ArathornValar: Im all over so quarterly
ArPharazonV: dare any of you who are semi-afk dare to make a comment once in a while in the time you happen to walk by your keyboard?
Grimbold V: sure
ArPharazonV: *either leave out a dare, or replace the first with a do
ArathornValar: er seems there is nothing to comment on yet
ArPharazonV: no thoughts upon the topic?
ArPharazonV: an answer to my question? anything?
ArathornValar: Im not versed on Manwe.. wouldnt know what to say
ArPharazonV: in that case... do you have any topic to continue on?
ArathornValar: I did bring one up with Varda and Ulmo other day..
ArathornValar: Regarding elves
ArathornValar: And why Tolkien saw then as tall and noble.. while most mythology I've read sees them as tiny mischievous sprites.
ArathornValar: What would make him take this view?
ArPharazonV: well, he didn't like what Shakespeare had done them, and thus based his conception on the Norse mythology...
ArathornValar: aha!
ArPharazonV: but what the Norse elves look like I do not know
ArathornValar: Varda mentioned Norse.
ArathornValar: Im only familiar with the gods.. didnt know they spoke of elves?
ArPharazonV: aye, Elves and Dark Elves
ArathornValar: Can you elaborate? Id like to know more
ArathornValar: nice! I will delve deeper!
ArathornValar: I searched yesterdaqy but found nothing satisfying.
ArPharazonV: ;-)
ArathornValar: So, the Norse thought elves as tall and noble.. or is that just how Tolkien used their lore?
Grimbold V: sorry fellas I may have to leave...suitemate told me we're in severe T-storm/tornado watch
Grimbold V: they're telling us to take shelter..which they don't normally do
ArPharazonV: ouch
ArPharazonV: go shelter yourself
ArPharazonV: and take your computer with you!
Grimbold V: you know I am!
VardaValar1: Go! Take care!
Grimbold V: take care
VardaValar1: Namarie1
Grimbold V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Run! Run! Tornado coming!
ArPharazonV: Namarie
ArathornValar: hands Grim an electric umbrella.. er ..wait!!! :-P
ArPharazonV: Delve, Arathorn, Delve... until your heart thirsts no more
ArathornValar: I shall save this page once it's posted =)
ArPharazonV: and then go Delve some more :-)
ArPharazonV: but this is a good topic
ArPharazonV: so just links won't do... let's see... what do we know about Norse Elves
ArathornValar: yes, else i'll be off reading for an hour ;-P
ArPharazonV: what I do find interesting, is that Tolkien originally started with beings like Shakespeare's Elves
ArathornValar: really? .. where?
ArPharazonV: if you have seen the Lost Tales, they are very small and translucent in our modern age, which is due to 'fading'
ArPharazonV: and Tolkien called them Faeries
ArathornValar: ahh ok.. havent read those.. they preclude his other works then?  [meant "precede"]
ArPharazonV: aye, they do, it's part of the History of Middle-Earth, the first 2 parts
ArPharazonV: his first version of the story, written around 1920
ArathornValar: hmm but the 'fading' reference seems to imply that the tall elves became these fairies?
ArathornValar: is that what he meant to portray?
ArPharazonV: indeed, it was so
ArPharazonV: the Lost Tales are not complete, especially concerning the latter part, but there are several theories given on this fading, which endured for a long time
ArathornValar: so the ones that didn't end up going on, became sprites in 'our' world?
ArPharazonV: indeed, and as Lost Eressea became England, their true history was brought up again :-)
ArPharazonV: *Tol Eressea
ArPharazonV: indeed, the lost tales begin with an opening story, in which a human mariner comes upon Tol Eressea, and meets these small Elves, at which point he too becomes small to enter their Cottage
ArPharazonV: and it is they who tell him the story of what later became the Silmarillion, and it is they who eventually would bring the island closer to Europe to rescue the 'lost elves'
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ArPharazonV: however, they come into conflict with humanity, are defeated, and thus humans inhabit England
ArathornValar: so if we go along the lines of hobbits growing and elves shrinking... might we not be the hobbits and mosquitos be the elves.. ack! <chuckle>
ArPharazonV: no, hobbits shrink...
ArPharazonV: not much, but they do ;-)
ArathornValar: er they grew at the end of LoTR
ArPharazonV: they did?
ArPharazonV: yeah, well, those 2
ArPharazonV: but in general, I think it is said in the prologue... that they were once bigger than they are now
ArathornValar: Gandalf said that the younger were always getting bigger.. Pippin, Merry
ArPharazonV: indeed, but they were exceptions... with the Ent-draught and all
ArathornValar: In the final chapter
ArPharazonV: hang on, lemme fetch the prologue
ArathornValar: hmm.. well he also said that Frodo was bigger than Bilbo and Sam bigger than Frodo so...
ArathornValar: the young were progressivlely getting bigger and even said that one day humans may wonder if there is a bit of hobbit in all of us
ArPharazonV: "Their hight is variable, ranging between two and four feet of our measure. They seldom now reach three feet; but they have dwindled, they say, and in ancient days they were taller."
Eonwe Valar: (interjection) that sounds more like the Return of the King animation by Rankin-Bass than the books.
ArathornValar: hmm... perhaps Tolkien confused himself then.. because at the end of LoTR he seems to say they are growing again.
ArPharazonV: "According to the Red Book, Bandobras Took (Bullroarer), son of Isengrim the Second, was four foot five and able to ride a horse. He was surpassed in all Hobbit records only by two famous characters of old;
ArPharazonV: but that curious matter is dealt with in this book."
ArPharazonV: and, of course, those two were Merry and Pippin
ArathornValar: hmm so they just made that up? seems to me I read that as well
ArPharazonV: it's in the prologue, Concerning Hobbits
ArathornValar: yes you're part Im talking about them growing again
ArathornValar: Are you saying that no where in Tolkiens works did he mention that hobbits were betting bigger again, Eonwe?
ArPharazonV: I do not recall that part, Arathorn, for one...
VardaValar1: Back. Ohh, nice long scroll to read!
ArathornValar: Hmm then I am mixing up animation with literature.. seems willy they would change the book that much
VardaValar1: Pegolodh passed his test, missing only 1/2 point! Very good
ArPharazonV: congrats!
VardaValar1: He had to leave after the test, but expects to be around. : )
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Pengolodh, sorry
ArathornValar: wait! I caught that 1/2 point he missed on the rebound.. and handed it back to him.. full score!!
VardaValar1: Woohoo!
VardaValar1: Scrolling now. Looks interesting.
Eonwe Valar: ok, caught up now, pardon not responding
Eonwe Valar: I have a somewhat skeptical point of view on why they would put that in the Animation, Arathorn, but I won't share.
Eonwe Valar: Needless to say, I don't recall any part in the books where Tolkien says that.
ArathornValar: hmm seems to me I did read it.. gads why put it in an animation if it wasn't somehow suggested :-\
ArathornValar: thats bugging me now ;-P
ArPharazonV: perhaps you read the sub-title ;-)
VardaValar1: Movies feel a need to make a work their own, change as they please. The Letters of Tolkien show him being very upset with the changes that seemed to come up for no reason.
VardaValar1: You did notice the LotR changes in PJ's movies? Same thing.
ArathornValar: pff.. yes in a romanian dialect translated from welsh. that MUST be it <har!!>
VardaValar1: hehe
ArathornValar: yes but not THAT much.. to imply something like hobbits growing into humans (or human-like) ..
VardaValar1: Fun thing about myths. Everyone likes to make a version.
ArathornValar: Ill have to dig into Gandalf's words at the end of LoTR now
VardaValar1: Please do!
ArathornValar: I was sure he mentioned something of the sort :-\
VardaValar1: You might be remembering spiritual growth.

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ArathornValar: Okie.. well Im off to WoW .. i want to track down this giant .. I have a new quest thanks to Ar!!
ArPharazonV: hehe... good luck
VardaValar1: All Ar's fault : )
VardaValar1: Fangorn is there
ArPharazonV: the reward is smotts' compass
VardaValar1: Thanks, Ar, for handling the Tolkien chat!
VardaValar1: With your aid, we now have a new Full Member : )
ArPharazonV: woohoo!
Eonwe Valar: Yay :}
ArathornValar: If anyonoe wants to join me in STV .. Im a man (woman/female warlock) possessed!
VardaValar1: Fangorn is already there.
Eonwe Valar: Lucky for you I have Exorcism Arathorn :}
ArathornValar: Grats to Pegolodh!
ArPharazonV: I'd like to... but... you know... atlantic ocean
VardaValar1: Pengolodh-(V) is his final name.
Eonwe Valar: Start swimming Phar :}
VardaValar1: Or an international credit card and US WoW copy : )
ArPharazonV: true, true... but neither do I possess, nor will I lose hope that Blizzard ever creates a link
ArPharazonV: btw, good news for feral druids like me:
ArPharazonV: the next patch will improve cat-form, the patch after that will improve the entire talent-tree!
VardaValar1: May it truly be an improvement. :-)
ArPharazonV: as of the new patch, agility now also boosts attack power for the cat, so it should be ok, since that at the moment is my highest attribute
VardaValar1: Fangorn is afk for the moment
ArPharazonV: a boost of 156 extra attack power will give us the best damage ever...
Eonwe Valar: And eventually Paladins will get looked at :}
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: good, because my first alt will be a Pally
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VardaValar1: Maybe you guys should all head to WoW before you explode ;-)
ArPharazonV: *kaboom*
VardaValar1: too late
ArPharazonV: neh, no biggy... not like I have time for a princess-run tonight...
ArPharazonV: and I really want to kill her, the reward is such a good staff
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Switching to Bnet seems to disconnect. Saw your last comment on going to WoW behind the Disconnect
ArPharazonV: that could well be, sigma ain't doing well either
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
VardaValar1: hmm
VardaValar1: I'll try a reload. It may be "leaking"
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): well, here's to the new attempt
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bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Ok, reloaded
bnetValar: Varda-(Valar) (Bnet): Reloaded all of them. New position in Bnet :-)
ArPharazonV: just reading wow tip of the day: Remember that your actions at a lower level can come back to haunt you at a higher level.
ArPharazonV: can anyone tell me how this plays a part? except for reputation etc
VardaValar1: Skill tree choices
ArPharazonV: ah, right
VardaValar1: Reputation is one, true
Eonwe Valar: If you steal items at a low level, chances are no one will give you the chance to do it at a high level.
ArPharazonV: hehe...
ArPharazonV: that's another kind of reputation
Eonwe Valar: That's really what that sounds like it's warning of.
VardaValar1: That happens in EQ
VardaValar1: The rep hits very quickly and sticks
ArPharazonV: that happens in WoW too... if you're a ninja-looter, the news spreads
VardaValar1: Beggar, what WoW calls Ninja looter, etc
Eonwe Valar: Aye, too many people walk up and ask for money.
ArPharazonV: that's not ninja-looting :-)
Eonwe Valar: My most recent excuse is my epic mount :}
VardaValar1: Aye, it's a list : )
ArPharazonV: I don't beg for money-gifts... just for loans :-)
ArPharazonV: and only from guildies
VardaValar1: Valar group gives stuff but then those receivers later or sooner also give stuff
VardaValar1: We also try to help with materials
Eonwe Valar: Aye
ArPharazonV: just the other day, I found the very wanted recipe of the saviory delight fish, on buyout for 30 gold
Eonwe Valar: I don't mind giving to Guild members because I know they'll give to other Guild members etc.
ArPharazonV: so I got a loan from a guild-member (since I was running low at the time), he accepted, and I got the recipe!
ArPharazonV: now I'm already nearly able to pay him back
Eonwe Valar: I'm not willing to pay that much for a Girdle of Uther, and I actually want one of those :}
VardaValar1: 30 gold does sound awfully steep
ArPharazonV: hehe.. doesn't matter... it's not like I really need the money, not until I start saving up for my epic mount
VardaValar1: I need to save for my epic mount
Eonwe Valar: All I get from the Auction House are materials. Everything else I find or make myself.
VardaValar1: But I'd dearly like to spend on training : )
Eonwe Valar: If the training can help you kill faster, go for the training. You've got 900 gold to save up
ArPharazonV: that's mostly true for me too, Eonwe, but this one was an exception... such a low droprate
VardaValar1: I spend a lot of time farming, partly due to lack of gold ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Only thing I'm missing from my skills is max level fire resistance aura, and that's only because I ran out of money before I bought it.
VardaValar1: I am going for training right now
VardaValar1: We'll have to see that you have the gold :-)
ArPharazonV: actually, I've been able to afford all my training at the moment I reached the appropriate level
Eonwe Valar: My Priest, on the other hand, is having his mount pretty much Handed to him by my Paladin :}
ArPharazonV: the only thing I haven't got is hurricane, but that's because I won't spend 30 points in the Resto-tree just to get one ability
ArPharazonV: or was that balance
ArPharazonV: anyway...
ArPharazonV: so far, I've been able to buy all my spells
Eonwe Valar: Well, I'm missing the ranks for the skills in other trees as well, of course.
ArPharazonV: I spent 5 points in resto for improved motw (btw, I got gotw the other day, bought it for 3 gold from a guildy
ArPharazonV: )
ArPharazonV: and I spent 1 point in balance to get nature's grasp.... the rest has all gone to feral
ArPharazonV: but anyway, I've always gotten all my spells on my own, this loan for the recipe is only the second loan I've ever had to ask for...
ArPharazonV: the first loan was the final 45 gold so I could afford my mount at lvl 40, and I've paid that back long ago :-)
Eonwe Valar: good :}
VardaValar1: Nice : )
VardaValar1: Guys, I'm going to start taking care of the new membership info
VardaValar1: Takes a while
VardaValar1: Namarie for now
ArPharazonV: so now I'm saving up money again so I can afford both to return the loan and buy my spells at 54....
ArPharazonV: Namarie
ArPharazonV: take good care of pengolodh!
Eonwe Valar: Take care Varda :}
Eonwe Valar: My time to go as well :}
VardaValar1: Happy hunting, and you bet. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Take care all and have fun :}
aranfinwe: namarie all, time for me to head home
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ArPharazonV: well, saving and sending
VardaValar1: Thanks! Namarie
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