Valar Guild

April 3, 2005 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT -5)

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
IRC:, join channel #valarguild Public Chat Valar
Sigma Chat: click on  Type in your guild name as user name.
Say a greeting when you enter on any of these platforms so we'll know you're there!
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Transcript team: Ar-Pharazon (part of transcript), and Varda (part of transcript, summary as always, webwork as always)

Attending (14):
    Members: ArPharazonV, Elwing V, Eonwe Valar (presided over Tolkien chat), Finwe-V/aranfinwe, FladrifV, Gil-galad-V/Xseanzee disco, Haleth/Druidfalconwolf, FarmerMaggot-V/bnetValar, Menelvagor Valar, Olwe-V/FallenGlory, Orodreth V, Ulmo-Valar/HeruRasa, VardaValar1 (presided over business)
    Visitor: Bloody Requim
Meeting Begins
    Orome - in WoW only, dropped DAoC. Plays Lothar server with our guild branch
    Melkor - back where he can reach a comp
    Orodreth - new comp
    News Page
    Tolkien Encyclopedia
       Navigation continues in progress, slow. Subject nav is fine, but now on alphabetical, dividing all entries into separate pages. Author pages still in progress.
       Humor: new joke section for tombstones
    World of WarCraft (WoW)
    Battle for Middle-earth
    Menelvagor's topic: Dagor Dagorlad: what happens to Turin there?
    Ar-Pharazon's topic: Whatever happened to the spirits of Sauron and Saruman?
    Elwing's topic: I'd like opinions of how the Rangers were viewed by general populace.
After-meeting - kept up Tolkien chat to the very last gasp  :) so we had no "After"

(transcript from Ar-Pharazon):
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
HeruRasa: ummm, you got me here ahour early :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: hmm
VardaValar1: I must have set the clock wrong
HeruRasa: lol
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Lost WoW an hour early to Sauron
VardaValar1: Go play, Ulmo :-)
VardaValar1: I am on CST
HeruRasa: heya Phar
ArPharazonV: I've got it an hour early as well
VardaValar1: Run it earlier than the normal time
HeruRasa: be back in an hour :-)
VardaValar1: Drat, could have played an hour :-)
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: I was just going to find a game on bnet... but if people start chatting here, I'll never be able to concentrate :-)
VardaValar1: Ulmo, let the others on WoW know
VardaValar1: Ok - I'll leave
ArPharazonV: anyway, something else first
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: ...
ArPharazonV: ok, bye
HeruRasa has left the room.
Orodreth V has entered the room.
Orodreth V: I didn't miss the meeting did I?
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: no
ArPharazonV: hasn't started yet
Orodreth V: Good.
ArPharazonV: we still have half an hour to go :-)
Orodreth V: Wish the bridge was around.
Orodreth V: I wanna use IRC. :-\
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: well, in a game now... will be back
bnetValar has entered the room.
aranfinwe has entered the room.
aranfinwe: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: in a game right now
Orodreth V: Aiya
ArPharazonV: see ya later :-)
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
aranfinwe: sorry 'bout delay in saying anything...
FarmerMaggotV: heh
aranfinwe: I'm at work, and I had customers in the store
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Oh, good, the bridge is in here.
FarmerMaggotV: yep
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Gonna use this for the chat.
FarmerMaggotV: nobody's used the IRC side much :-)
Orodreth V has left the room.
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Well I'm chatting in a few channels right now, so it's easier to have them all in one window.
FarmerMaggotV: yea
bnetValar: Ulmo_Valar (SigmaChat): hmmm, no one else gonna meet from here?
ArPharazonV: I will, soon
ArPharazonV: lemme finish game soon
HeruRasa has entered the room.
bnetValar: Varda (SigmaChat): Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya here too :-)
bnetValar: Ulmo_Valar (SigmaChat): aiya
VardaValar1: Elwing and Eowyn just arrived in real life
ArPharazonV: I'll brb
FladrifV has entered the room.
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Aiya Varda.
FallenGlory has entered the room.
bnetValar: Alasseo (IRC): Oh.
VardaValar1: Aiya
FallenGlory: Hey
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): There.
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): Forgot to change my nick.
VardaValar1: There you go :-)
bnetValar: Ulmo_Valar (SigmaChat): gonna be afk a few for dinner, will read script
VardaValar1: okies
FarmerMaggotV: hm, this seems to be the most use of the bridge I can recall :-)
VardaValar1: The more we get used to it, the more we can use it :-)
ArPharazonV: ok, I'm here
VardaValar1: Are you still having leaking of memory from it?
ArPharazonV: Aiya to.. everybody here, I guess
FarmerMaggotV: not as bad as it was
Bloody Requim has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Did you find a partial repair?
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Hail Bloody :-)
Bloody Requim: Hail
Bloody Requim: Just about to leave
VardaValar1: About to start the meeting
FarmerMaggotV: yeah, when I rewrote it a couple of months ago it stopped most of the memory leaking, but there's still a lot of debug messages, etc
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Ok, good to have sen you
Bloody Requim: I'll be back in about an hour
VardaValar1: We trust you will keep tweaking as always
VardaValar1: Farewell
Bloody Requim: Farewell
Bloody Requim has left the room.
VardaValar1: Let's start

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Member News:
VardaValar1: Orome in WoW says Melkor is back within reach of a computer :-)
VardaValar1: We have met a number of people who have expressed interest in the guild in WoW
VardaValar1: We'll see how that works out
VardaValar1: One problem is they are often in another guild already
VardaValar1: Any other guild member news?
VardaValar1: On other news, the Pope died and a new one is with us
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): Oh, me.
VardaValar1: The old one was very ill and is undoubtedly much happier now
VardaValar1: He lived a long time
VardaValar1: Web News:
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): *raises hand*
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Oro :-)
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): My new spiffy computer will be running tuesday.
VardaValar1: Woot!
VardaValar1: Hope it works out for you : )
VardaValar1: What are your plans for it?
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): 250 gb hd, ge force fx 6800
VardaValar1: WoW? WC3?
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): wc3, sc..
VardaValar1: oh nice!!
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): might get splinter cell froma friend who dosn't play it anymore
VardaValar1: Pass-around games are great : )
VardaValar1: Have D2X?
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): nope
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): processor is an amd 2800+
VardaValar1: You have enough to keep very busy : )
ArPharazonV: I might be getting BfME... if my classmate can work out how to use his dvd-writer :-)
VardaValar1: good chip!
VardaValar1: I am hoping to get that one on an upgrade
VardaValar1: Battle for Middle-earth
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): Yea, I got it all for ~$850.
ArPharazonV: right, that one Varda
VardaValar1: Impressive
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): Only 512 ram, but, eh.
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): Don't need more.
Eonwe Valar: heya. Pardon my lateness
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): but that's my news.
VardaValar1: Very good news!
VardaValar1: Thank you Orodreth
ArPharazonV: I went to his house this afternoon, we had to work on a presentation... and there I saw, and played for a few minutes... the wonder that is BfME
VardaValar1: Glad you could make it : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you have that game don't you?
ArPharazonV: I'll probably buy it myself soon
Eonwe Valar: Nay, I have War of the Ring
VardaValar1: ahh
ArPharazonV: btw, because of said presentation
VardaValar1: Oh, Elwing is here. She brought over pictures with Eonwe and Beline : )
ArPharazonV: I have to get up early tomorrow, so I probably have to leave soon
ArPharazonV: at least sooner than I normally leave
VardaValar1: No problem
VardaValar1: For a change, the transcript will help you : )
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks for the zillion you have sent in!
ArPharazonV: btw, I think the transcript of 2 weeks ago still isn't available
ArPharazonV: the link doesn't work
VardaValar1: check again? I did try to fix it
ArPharazonV: but I haven't checked it in a few days, so you may have fixed it
VardaValar1: See if it is behaving now
ArPharazonV: nope
VardaValar1: reload?
VardaValar1: should say March not Mar
ArPharazonV: ah, ok :-)
ArPharazonV: but reloading doesn't help
VardaValar1: ok, I'll give it a check and try to re-fix
VardaValar1: Thanks for the info! I need to know
ArPharazonV: manually fixing the address did help, fortunately
VardaValar1: :-)
ArPharazonV: and so it turns out nothing new was added since my departure ;-)
VardaValar1: Nice to know, eh?
ArPharazonV: aye
VardaValar1: Any other Member News?

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: The News page should be faster to load
VardaValar1: It has had the previous months archived
VardaValar1: For some reason the javascript is not working and the quotes are no longer showing on the News
VardaValar1: Farmer, maybe you can help me spot what happened
VardaValar1: Or anyone else who knows a little Javascript : )
FarmerMaggotV: hm
FarmerMaggotV: I could look
VardaValar1: Thanks : )
VardaValar1: Windows security is eating me up when I try to work on it
VardaValar1: I am still working on Encyc navigation
VardaValar1: Making a new page for each entry
VardaValar1: Making a page for each Author with his articles
VardaValar1: linked to his author page for Poetry and for Stories
VardaValar1: When it is done, we can have an alphabetical as well as subject navigation
VardaValar1: Any other Web News?
FarmerMaggotV: here's an idea Varda
VardaValar1: Go ahead
FarmerMaggotV: var random=Math.floor(Math.random()*19)document.write(quotes[random])I think they should have a semicolon at the end of each line
VardaValar1: they don't?
FarmerMaggotV: nope
VardaValar1: Thanks!
VardaValar1: I'll try that
VardaValar1: But later  [note: tried later, did not fix it, but thanks for the suggestion!]
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
VardaValar1: (saving transcript with Farmer's suggestion!)

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: WoW
VardaValar1: Friday game night is still going
VardaValar1: Those who can come an hour earlier can help Elatan and Orome
VardaValar1: We are getting more guild-friend/potential recruits to come
VardaValar1: We could use more actual members, but we do have a nice turn-out
VardaValar1: Any other Gaming News?
VardaValar1: Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: You've pretty much given all I know of :}
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya!
Menelvagor Valar: sorry I am late
VardaValar1: No problem
Menelvagor Valar: big games day today nearby :-)
VardaValar1: We will try to have the transcript up for you
VardaValar1: What is the big games day?
Menelvagor Valar: we had introductions to dozens and dozens of games, board, fantasy, card, you name it, it was there
VardaValar1: Sounds like a great time!
Menelvagor Valar: absolutely!
VardaValar1: Amazing you made it back here
Menelvagor Valar: and the dinner afterwards was very satisfying :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: what did you eat?
VardaValar1: We trust you folk in Europe will tell us when you can make it to the US
VardaValar1: for WoW
Menelvagor Valar: absolutely
ArPharazonV: I'll probably have to get WoW first.... dang Menel, still upset about the 1-4 joke...
Menelvagor Valar: I'm mean, I know :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I convinced my mom I had a girlfriend, got her all excited and then flashed april fools on her :-D
VardaValar1: Now you will find one and she won't believe you
ArPharazonV: the boy who cried 'girlfriend'
VardaValar1: heheh
Menelvagor Valar: I don't need my moms approval on a girlfriend anyways
VardaValar1: Now you guys play other games. Any news from those fronts?
ArPharazonV: let's see... I discovered a few more quests in Morrowind, gonna be playing them soon...
VardaValar1: Moms just like to know if they are about to acquire a new daughter : )
Menelvagor Valar: oh, I'll tell her :-)
Menelvagor Valar: when I want to :-)
ArPharazonV: I found a Morrowind journal on the internet that's still being updated, so that's a 'finally'
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): Nothing here. Been doing little gaming thanks to this laptop going down the drain.
ArPharazonV: I played BfME today for 20 minutes and got addicted to it....
VardaValar1: Oro, good thing you have the new comp to look forward to!
VardaValar1: Fast addiction!
ArPharazonV: well, addicted... excited about bying it would be better
ArPharazonV: *buying
VardaValar1: Any still playing D2X?
ArPharazonV: let's see, what else... I'm starting to like the loap-maps in war3 again
ArPharazonV: played a few new maps in war3 last week, they were fun
ArPharazonV: waiting for DS2 and Oblivion...
ArPharazonV: and that's about it
VardaValar1: Thank you

VardaValar1: Tolkien Chat
VardaValar1: I'm turning this over to Eonwe for now
VardaValar1: I have to be afk but will scroll and jump in : )
VardaValar1: I may let Elwing take over this comp for a bit ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Ok everyone, whisper me your Tolkien topics :}
Eonwe Valar: No topics? Then I'll have to pull topics out of a hat :}
ArPharazonV: must be a big hat
HeruRasa: we gonna discuss hats? :0
ArPharazonV: sorry about that random comment, I'm getting drawn in with the humor of the war3 forums again...
Eonwe Valar: oh sure, spoil to surprise :}
Eonwe Valar: Fili's topic given last Sunday but we didn't get to: Where did Beorn get his ability?
Menelvagor Valar: oh, I had a question about the Dagor Dagorlad
Menelvagor Valar: where can I find the passage that refers to it?
Eonwe Valar: Oh sure, after I throw the topic out :}
ArPharazonV: dagor dagorlad? the battle of the battle-plain?
Eonwe Valar: You can find it in UT and a slighter reference in the Sil if I recall.
Eonwe Valar: You're referring to the Last Battle?
ArPharazonV: the Last Alliance?
Menelvagor Valar: The Final Battle or Battle of Battles
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
Eonwe Valar: Aye, UT and Sil
Menelvagor Valar: ok
ArPharazonV: you mean where Morgoth comes back from the Void?
Menelvagor Valar: what happens to Turin there
Eonwe Valar: Look for Manwë in the Index and you'll more than likely be pointed to the page
Menelvagor Valar: aye, Phar
Eonwe Valar: Depends on the version.
ArPharazonV: I thought it would be in some books from the HoME series...
Eonwe Valar: in the UT version, Turin isn't involved if I recall
Eonwe Valar: It's also in HoME, now that you mention it.
ArPharazonV: wait, did I miss so much of the Silmarillion? I just reread it!
ArPharazonV: I found nothing of the Last Battle!
ArPharazonV: how...
Eonwe Valar: If it's there like I think it is, it's a bare allusion to it.
Eonwe Valar: easily missable.
Menelvagor Valar: well, I know that Turin strikes the final death stroke on Morgoth
Menelvagor Valar: but what happens to him afterwards?
Eonwe Valar: According to one version of the tale, yes
ArPharazonV: I'm also reading UT now, and I haven't found anything of the Final Battle either... but I still have part four to go
Eonwe Valar: Anyone have any info on Turin after the Last Battle?
ArPharazonV: pssh... HoME so big... perhaps I can find something in part V, I happen to have that lying next to the pc
Menelvagor Valar: I remember hearing somewhere Turin was counted among the Valar, but that can be false
VardaValar1: Back
VardaValar1: Setting up Elwing on another comp
ArPharazonV: "where legend saith that they lie imprisoned in the Forgotten Caves until the day of Doom and the Last Battle... nope, that's just about me and my men.. pretty interesting though
VardaValar1: Check out some of that on our Encyc : )
VardaValar1: That can give references
Elwing V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: That reference would be from BoLT I believe
Elwing V: Aiya! Long time no chat :-)
ArPharazonV: "But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Turin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar."
ArPharazonV: bingo
ArPharazonV: HoME part V
Druidfalconwolf has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Druidfalconwolf: hello
ArPharazonV: at the end of part 2, the final pages of the Quenta Silmarillion before the commentary
ArPharazonV: in book V, 'the lost road and other writings'
VardaValar1: Aiya Haleth! Talking about the Last Battle
ArPharazonV: prrroblem solved
Druidfalconwolf: ah
ArPharazonV: page 333 in my version
Eonwe Valar: SO I guess that's it for the discussion on TUrin?
Menelvagor Valar: encyc last battle holds no info on Turin's fate
Eonwe Valar: Try TUrin then :}
ArPharazonV: Menel, you got HoME?
VardaValar1: It does in another place
Eonwe Valar: It's in one of the articles on Turin
VardaValar1: whole batch on Turin
ArPharazonV: according to HoME part V he's given a place among the sons of the Valar, is that not what you were looking for?
Menelvagor Valar: yes, found it
Menelvagor Valar: BoLT 2
ArPharazonV: oh, right, there too...
Eonwe Valar: Speaks of becoming "Shining Valar"
Eonwe Valar: Bathying in the pools of Laurelin
Eonwe Valar: Forget the old name, but same tree.
ArPharazonV: that's before the last battle isn't it?
Eonwe Valar: Kullulin or something like that.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that's before
VardaValar1: In the Encyc it is under Making Valar under Powers
Menelvagor Valar: but it does show that Turin is counted among the Valar
Eonwe Valar: but it's also about the only indication we have of what may have heppened after that I'm aware of.
VardaValar1: The Turin story is from very far back. Good question on whether it would have been kept and in what form
Eonwe Valar: In the older tales, aye Menelvagor. I wouldn't hold that true according to the Silmarillion however.
Elwing V: the "last" battle is NEVER the LAST battle, unfortunately :p
VardaValar1: Makes for interesting speculation
VardaValar1: In this case it is
VardaValar1: Afterwards, all is destroyed then sung aright
ArPharazonV: and a new Arda is created, I think it said in Morgoth's Ring or WotJ
VardaValar1: Right
VardaValar1: The new singing creates the new Arda
VardaValar1: This is also in the Encyc ;-)
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: *shameless plug*
ArPharazonV: I should look into that more often
ArPharazonV: *responds positively to shameless plug*
VardaValar1: and feel free to add to it!
VardaValar1: hehe
Elwing V: a new Arda song without the "off-key note" in it this time!
VardaValar1: That is the hope
VardaValar1: If humans come into the Last Battle and are friendly to elves, the elves can return
VardaValar1: Otherwise not
ArPharazonV: hmm.... whatever happened to the spirits of Sauron and Saruman? If they returned to Morgoth, wouldn't they have caused an 'off-key note'?
VardaValar1: They were blown away by the winds of Manwe
Elwing V: give Morgoth and friends singing lessons
ArPharazonV: to where?
VardaValar1: Possibly all the way to the Void. It does not say
VardaValar1: May have just disintegrated, but that does not seem to fit into the rest of the cosmology
Eonwe Valar: It does say they can't do much more harm, however. Sauron is at best a "Spirit of Malice"
VardaValar1: aye
ArPharazonV: a poltergeist :-)
VardaValar1: So perhaps he whispers or looks scary
Eonwe Valar: Throwing dishes around in Minas Tirith :}
VardaValar1: Makes people hurt themselves
VardaValar1: hehee
VardaValar1: Saruman might therefore be one as well
ArPharazonV: stealing people's (wedding-)rings and hiding them in odd corners...
Eonwe Valar: Hmm sounds like a 50s comedy show : "That old Sauron."
Elwing V: always after rings...
VardaValar1: I wonder how the two spirits would get along : )
Eonwe Valar: well, maybe 60s or 70s
VardaValar1: I'll bet it would not be pretty
ArPharazonV: ah, so that's where my missing ring went... "hey, Sauron! Get back here with that!"
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, the Ghostly Odd Couple :}
VardaValar1: I think we need to move on to Elwing's topic : )
Elwing V: Ghastly odd couple!
Eonwe Valar: "One obseeses over rings, the other entrances with his voice. How will these two ever get along?"
ArPharazonV: ghosts... ghasts... it reminds me of an Oots-episode
Eonwe Valar: Aye, think this is thoroughly dead :}
VardaValar1: Saruman thinking he could be like Sauron or as his equal
Eonwe Valar: Elwing, all yours :}
VardaValar1: Before the ghost re-arises!
Elwing V: *takes bow* I'd like opinions of how the Rangers were viewed by general populace
VardaValar1: (Sauron is actually playing WoW right now. Keeps him out of trouble)
Menelvagor Valar: before or after the War of the Ring?
VardaValar1: or during?
Elwing V: before mainly
ArPharazonV: (ah, found the episode..
VardaValar1: For that we might go to the chapter where the hobbits meet Strider at Bree
ArPharazonV: anyway, Rangers
VardaValar1: The different races would have different attitudes
Elwing V: they had to be careful of course, but did their caution have them come across to most as "bad"
Menelvagor Valar: well, as far as I know, they were respected a little because of their knowledge of the wilds
ArPharazonV: the Elves knew who they really were, so they liked them
VardaValar1: Hobbits barely knew they existed. And would look askance at such "adventurers".
Menelvagor Valar: but mostly viewed as "scary" and best avoided
ArPharazonV: what did Butterbur say about Aragorn?
VardaValar1: He gave him the name "Strider, and not in a nice way
Menelvagor Valar: rangers, strange folk, wouldn't want to get up with him (or something close)
ArPharazonV: well, I guess that says most of what we can find out
Menelvagor Valar: but even though the rangers were looked askew upon and were generally feared, they were admitted into the Pony and Bree
ArPharazonV: don't think anybody dared to keep them out :-)
Eonwe Valar: Sure, they probably paid well enough
Menelvagor Valar: so it would at least suggest that they were respected enough to be let in
VardaValar1: They were not considered bandits but I think some feared they might be considering it. Looked a lot like such
Eonwe Valar: Probably better at payment than most rough-looking scoundrels.
VardaValar1: If they pay, they're ok
ArPharazonV: heh... paying their meals with some fancy heirloom of Numenor...
VardaValar1: Merchant attitude
VardaValar1: ouch
Eonwe Valar: gold is good enough :}
ArPharazonV: btw, that reminds me of a small question about Numenor, and what they brought from Numenor...
Elwing V: paying customers are tolerable at least
VardaValar1: They were mysterious about their business and seemed to be very active at whatever it was
ArPharazonV: "seven stars and seven stones and one white tree"
Eonwe Valar: What they could, but certainly heirlooms
ArPharazonV: we know the tree, we know the stones... what were the stars?
Eonwe Valar: Narsil
Menelvagor Valar: a merchant would not want to sell anything to someone he could not trust to be at least "docile"
VardaValar1: Could be the constellation also
Eonwe Valar: Aranruth was not (Aranruth was the sword of the King as I recall)
VardaValar1: Non-threatening
Menelvagor Valar: you don't want trouble started every time some stranger enters the inn
ArPharazonV: Aranruth was lost in the Downfall, I think
ArPharazonV: Aranruth was the sword of Thingol
Elwing V: to keep an eye out for dark happenings, they would seem to "hang out" around bad guys...
VardaValar1: Butterbur calls them "wandering folk"
Eonwe Valar: Aye, that is true as well Elwing
Elwing V: but they would aid against the bad guys if had too in a pinch I guess
VardaValar1: Sorry about thinking Barliman named Strider, he and others in those parts called him that for hurrying about on his long legs
ArPharazonV: aye, they would... but mostly out of sight, and with stealt
ArPharazonV: *stealth
Eonwe Valar: Might also be their "presense" that helped people decide to have dealings with them. Something most wouldn't pick up, but Frodo did.
ArPharazonV: Longshanks
VardaValar1: Might act as militia
Eonwe Valar: "The servants of the Enemy would look fair and fell foul"
Eonwe Valar: "So I look foul and fell fair, is that it?"
VardaValar1: The "presence" might act on most people's subconscious, while Frodo would see it clearly
ArPharazonV: hey, you got that from the newspage, didn't you? ;-)
VardaValar1: Got what?
ArPharazonV: wasn't that quote on the newspage?
Eonwe Valar: Nope, was just thinking about it and quoted to best of my ability :}
Eonwe Valar: it's random on the news page :}
VardaValar1: Is the quote working for you, Phar?
ArPharazonV: actually, I don't see any quotes on the newspage now
ArPharazonV: what happened?
VardaValar1: I don't know
VardaValar1: I've been trying to tweak it and make it work again
VardaValar1: Windows security started bashing it when I tried to work on it
VardaValar1: Back to Rangers : )
Eonwe Valar: They look foul and feel fair.
Eonwe Valar: Rangers of the North anyway
ArPharazonV: and are therefore no servant of the enemy...
Elwing V: so ultimately, do you suppose it would be a Ranger's better interest to announce himself right off or keep it secret for awhile (when meeting new people)?
Eonwe Valar: Gondoran Rangers (aka Rangers of Ithilien I suppose) were honored in Minas Tirith)
VardaValar1: They look different form anyone else
HeruRasa: depends what he wantsa to know
Elwing V: particularly if the new people seemed like possible allies
VardaValar1: The Steward's son was known to run the Southern Rangers
VardaValar1: People did not know the King was running the Northern Rangers
Elwing V: Would they be more likely to think "we can trust him because he's a ranger" or "we should be careful of this ranger"
ArPharazonV: "A fairly sure rule of thumb is to look at the Stranger's hair. If it is greasy, he has to be a Spy. If it is simply unkempt or greying, or both, he is on the side of Good and the Dark Lord is his personal Enemy;
Eonwe Valar: People didn't know there was a king :}
VardaValar1: heheh
Eonwe Valar: well that's an interesting analogy Phar
ArPharazonV: he will be a great help in the final confrontation by drawing the Dark Lord's attention to himelf while the rest of you work at saving the world."
Elwing V: what if it's greasy gray unkempt hair
Eonwe Valar: or rather, analysis
VardaValar1: The grease is key? : )
ArPharazonV: it's a bit from the topic "Unpleasant Stranger" in "the rough guide to Fantasyland"
ArPharazonV: it seems to describe Aragorn remarkably well
VardaValar1: funny : )
Eonwe Valar: but when you're in the wild you don't always have a pool of water nearby to bathe in :}
VardaValar1: Or it is awfully cold
VardaValar1: Elves can handle the temperature, but the human rangers might have a problem
Eonwe Valar: Aragorn was in an inn, apparently with a room. I think he mustered a bath while he was there :}
ArPharazonV: funny book, that rough guide to fantasyland... I recommend it
ArPharazonV: by Diana Wynne Jones
VardaValar1: You have seen the joke blurbs on our Humor page, by Menelvagor?
VardaValar1: for that book?
ArPharazonV: yes
ArPharazonV: I gave him the first quotes, actually
ArPharazonV: he made up the rest himself, I think
VardaValar1: *more shameless plugs*
Eonwe Valar: While we're doing shameless plugs,.. the Games Page has lots of Tolkien names on it :}
VardaValar1: Barliman said Strider seldom talks, but can tell a rare tale or two
VardaValar1: so they could be entertaining, which would make them more liked
Elwing V: didn't he also know Strider and Gandalf knew each other?
ArPharazonV: well, if he read that latter, he would have known...
ArPharazonV: *letter
VardaValar1: He knew messages were left between them as he passed them on, so yes
Eonwe Valar: I doubt any Rangers had a bit of ale and started dancing on tables though
Menelvagor Valar: uhm.... sorry, joke blurbs?
VardaValar1: Aye : )
Menelvagor Valar: was looking something up for Eonwe :-)
Elwing V: not that wizards were any less strange, but you wouldn't want to let one know you thought so :-)
ArPharazonV: I can see Aragorn now... "and the cow jumped over the moon"
VardaValar1: scroll : ) Guide joke blurbs on your Humor page for the Encyc
Menelvagor Valar: the exact quote Eonwe was looking for was "For his works fill the heart with loathing; but my heart was filled with grief and pity." :-)
VardaValar1: Excellent
Menelvagor Valar: now I must ask for the meaning of "blurbs"
VardaValar1: short ads on the back of a book jacket, sometimes front. Usually quotes from famous people who have something to do with the subject
ArPharazonV: ah, so that's the correct word...
ArPharazonV: how funny, 'blurbs' :-)
VardaValar1: Jargon word
Menelvagor Valar: ah ok :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I add some to it once in a while
Menelvagor Valar: taking suggestions for them too
ArPharazonV: I just got a part from the book that seemed to describe Aragorn fairly accurately, so it drifted off a bit
VardaValar1: Great! Let us know at the meeting so we'll know to look
Menelvagor Valar: doesn't have to be different characters
Menelvagor Valar: same characters with different things they might have said about the book would be fine too :-)
ArPharazonV: heh... that reminds me... we had a thread about 'what you would want on your tombstone' in the war3 forum... I gave something as Ar-Pharazon....
VardaValar1: That could be good as a humor page "thread" too
ArPharazonV: "Arphy you can do anything,"
ArPharazonV: is what Sauron said.
ArPharazonV: I attacked the Gods,
ArPharazonV: and now I'm pretty dead.
Druidfalconwolf: lol
ArPharazonV: 't was the first thing I could come up with...
VardaValar1: cute : )
Menelvagor Valar: can you give me the link to that page Phar?
ArPharazonV: anyway, back to the Rangers :-P
VardaValar1: put it in the transcript and we can all take a look : )
ArPharazonV: that page? it wasn't for Tolkien, but just some war3-thread... since my accountname is ArPharazon, I said something fitting for me
ArPharazonV: but hey, if you want to look anyway..
Druidfalconwolf: well, looks like I g2g for another dog walk
VardaValar1: Namarie, Haleth
Eonwe Valar: They were probably also well-known in the North, despite not being well-liked. They would''ve been seen fairly frequently
Druidfalconwolf has left the room.
Elwing V: "pretty" dead - is that when viewers come up and say "gee he looks so lifelike" ?
Menelvagor Valar: well, I could start a new humor piece on the page with what one could put on a tombstone
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: I was doubting between pretty dead, kinda dead, etc... in the end I thought 'what the heck' and I said pretty
VardaValar1: We have several thread types
Menelvagor Valar: aye :-)
VardaValar1: So Elves were ok with Rangers.
VardaValar1: Elladan and Elrohir rode with them
VardaValar1: Legolas seems to have been friends with Aragorn, who was their chief
ArPharazonV: of course Elves were ok with Rangers, they knew their origin...
VardaValar1: so he may have done some riding with them that is not mentioned
ArPharazonV: Aragorn even grew up in Rivendell
VardaValar1: Elrond fostered the line of Elros, his twin brother, who were the kings
VardaValar1: And in Lothlorien, Galadriel pushed for Aragorn and Arwen to be together
VardaValar1: So that covers three Elven lands
VardaValar1: How about Cirdan?
VardaValar1: The Havens were close to the Shire, and the Rangers protected the Shire
ArPharazonV: Cirdan liked Gandalf... Gandalf liked Aragorn... Aragorn was a Ranger...
VardaValar1: What do you want to bet they dropped by there?
VardaValar1: If Cirdan's people knew about the connection with Gandalf, then all is well there too
Eonwe Valar: Makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised if Aragorn went to peer through the stone at Annuminas a few times in his life.
VardaValar1: Good thought
VardaValar1: So we have some possible story lines here that are not generally touched
ArPharazonV: fanfiction-time :'
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Get on those keyboards : )
VardaValar1: We do have a story section for the Encyc
VardaValar1: *my day for sp's*
VardaValar1: Comes from all the attempted live recruiting lately
Eonwe Valar: It's because all your pages tie so well into the TOlkien chat :}
ArPharazonV: I was thinking of letting my imagination get the better of me, to start a whole series of stories filling up the blanks of the second age...
VardaValar1: They all have to do with Tolkien so that could be it
ArPharazonV: but it just seems to be more than I can handle
VardaValar1: Go for it, Phar : )
ArPharazonV: I mean, we have 3000 years
VardaValar1: Just one at a time, whatever grabs you the most
ArPharazonV: just a handful of stories from Numenor
ArPharazonV: a bit from the war in Eriador
ArPharazonV: and nothing more
ArPharazonV: but I may go for it anyway
VardaValar1: Some of the rest of us could help you fill in the blanks with stories : )
VardaValar1: Could do short ones or even poems
VardaValar1: The LotR has a ton of holes too
VardaValar1: It's easy to miss that, but it is true
ArPharazonV: that's just the point, I want to create them myself, until I have one huge continuous story running from the beginning to the end....
ArPharazonV: but my ambition is getting the better of me again
VardaValar1: Look how little is told of the defense of the north, the dwarves and elves and Dale men, the Beornings
VardaValar1: All hints
Elwing V: always dream big :-)
VardaValar1: Take them from the beginning
VardaValar1: That's why he's called Ar-Pharazon the Golden : )
VardaValar1: Start at the beginning and continue until you reach the end
ArPharazonV: "Settle for what you can get, but first ask for the World."
VardaValar1: A quote
ArPharazonV: again, from the rough guid :-)
VardaValar1: We have lots of web space : )
ArPharazonV: I think I need to set up a structure first
VardaValar1: Yes you do
VardaValar1: Tolkien helped you with that
ArPharazonV: time-lines, annals, and different events and stories, of what we already have
ArPharazonV: including the stories of Aldarion and Tal-Elmar
ArPharazonV: my ultimate goal in that case? completing both stories to their end
ArPharazonV: but I need some practice first :-)
VardaValar1: Get started
Elwing V: completing those would be the ultimate practice
Menelvagor Valar: ok, tombstone humor piece on page now.
VardaValar1: Thanks : )
ArPharazonV: heh
VardaValar1: That update will go on the News summary
VardaValar1: If it doesn't, email me to put it on there!
ArPharazonV: could probably use a separate heading independent of the meeting-summary, but that's up to you
Menelvagor Valar: helps to have quick fingers, aside from the sense to do it while it is on your mind the most :-)
VardaValar1: Aye!
VardaValar1: Ok so we did Elf relations with Rangers
VardaValar1: How about Hobbit?
ArPharazonV: well... they weren't too fond of big people
VardaValar1: Rangers protected them
ArPharazonV: and rangers were quite tall :-)
VardaValar1: And that is all big people
VardaValar1: Aye, Rangers extra tall
ArPharazonV: did the Hobbits know they were under the protection of the Rangers? that seems unlikely
VardaValar1: Hobbits didn't like adventuring, and Rangers spent all their time on adventures
Eonwe Valar: They didn't
Eonwe Valar: Most Hobbits were oblivious to anything outside the Shire
VardaValar1: The hobbits saw them sometimes, but the protection was secret to prevent fear
Elwing V: hobbits were aware of big folk, but didn't seem to know of Rangers (as such)
VardaValar1: The Rangers protected from the outside, so the baddies did not even reach the Shire
VardaValar1: The hobbits would not normally see any of it
Elwing V: baddies at first didn't even consider the shire worth bothering with I think
VardaValar1: Prey is prey
ArPharazonV: well-tilled farmlands with loads of products are always a good target
VardaValar1: Orcs were minions of Sauron though and would not have been aimed at such minor targets
ArPharazonV: especially with a people practically oblivious to danger
Elwing V: they never seemed to sense Bilbo had ring, only when Frodo got it (or just barely before that)
VardaValar1: Go for the Sackville-Bagginses and millers who might carry gold : )
ArPharazonV: well, I gotta go...
VardaValar1: Sleep well, Phar!
ArPharazonV: will save transcript, for what it's worth
ArPharazonV: thnx
VardaValar1: Thank you
(rest of transcript from Varda):
ArPharazonV has left the room.
Elwing V: My hubby :-)
VardaValar1: So, Rangers and Elves, Friendly. Rangers and Hobbits, not speaking.
VardaValar1: Humans?
VardaValar1: Dwarves?
VardaValar1: So we are talking faction for Rangers with the other races : )
VardaValar1: Elwing is crashing
Menelvagor Valar: they might have contact with the Blue Mountain Dwarves, but nothing is said about it
Menelvagor Valar: and humans depend on region, as was stated before
VardaValar1: A lot is not said. Leaves us plenty of room
VardaValar1: So most humans seeing Rangers would at least see they were fellow humans
Menelvagor Valar: I figure Rangers and Dwarves is friendly enough to let them pass in and out of the Shire unhindered
VardaValar1: But they look travel-worn
VardaValar1: Travelers, strangers are looked on with suspicion in most places
Menelvagor Valar: oh, next meeting, I will most likely be late, as I will be participating in a LARP event
VardaValar1: Which is?
Menelvagor Valar: Live Action Role Play
VardaValar1: We would do that if we could : )
VardaValar1: Getting all together at once is very difficult
Menelvagor Valar: consider yourself invited :-P
Elwing V has left the room.
aranfinwe: time for me to head home, namarie all
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well
VardaValar1: Elwing now shows as crashed
VardaValar1: namarie, Finwe!
Menelvagor Valar: namarie
aranfinwe has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: oh, has DST started in US yet?
VardaValar1: Yes
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): yesh
Eonwe Valar: Yep, last night
bnetValar: Orodreth-V (IRC): Im back.
VardaValar1: Should show on the News page
VardaValar1: Welcome back
Menelvagor Valar: good, had some mighty trouble adjusting my EST based clocks in the house to the correct Euro time lol
Menelvagor Valar: still based on EST tho, but still GMT -5
VardaValar1: Now ESDT : )
VardaValar1: shortened to EDT often enough
Menelvagor Valar: and it's now 6 PM CST, right?
VardaValar1: yes
Menelvagor Valar: or CDT
VardaValar1: But don't wreck your mind keeping my time too :-)
VardaValar1: Which is also Eonwe's tiem
VardaValar1: time
Menelvagor Valar: I make it my business to know most of the worlds timezones
VardaValar1: We have some of the clocks on the Members page
Menelvagor Valar: especially US ones
Menelvagor Valar: I know
Menelvagor Valar: it comes in handy knowing what time it is with a certain member for gaming purposes :-)
VardaValar1: I once tried to track down all the time zones the guild was in
Menelvagor Valar: helps solve time difference problems which might otherwise occur :-)
VardaValar1: We had nearly all from all over the world at some time : )
VardaValar1: Elwing cannot reconnect, but she is still here
VardaValar1: Sitting between Sauron and me
Menelvagor Valar: we still do in a sense :-)
VardaValar1: Sauron is on WoW : )
Menelvagor Valar: say hi :-)
VardaValar1: Many of our members don't come to meetings
Eonwe Valar: Shame on them :}
Menelvagor Valar: well, timezones can be a big drag
Menelvagor Valar: especially when it's the middle of the night
VardaValar1: Some don't like AIM, some are at work, some asleep, some are gaming, etc
Menelvagor Valar: europe is still bearable, but hard to do after meetings when working in the morning
VardaValar1: That so many chat regulars are European with their time problem is interesting
VardaValar1: The chat seems dead
VardaValar1: How about we let you go to sleep? : )
Menelvagor Valar: I don't have to work :-)
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: but should sleep
Menelvagor Valar: been up since 4 AM EDT
VardaValar1: A lonnng day!
Menelvagor Valar: full of laughter and games :-)
VardaValar1: I hope we helped Elwing
Menelvagor Valar: I'd say it was a good day
VardaValar1: She would read the transcript if we added more info
VardaValar1: Sounds good : )
VardaValar1: May you smile in your sleep!
Menelvagor Valar: undoubtedly :-)
FladrifV has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: going to keep my comp on for downloading business, Namarie!
VardaValar1: Namarie!
HeruRasa has left the room.
VardaValar1: Good night all