Valar Guild

April 24, 2005 Meeting

5pm ESDT (GMT -5)

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
IRC:, join channel #valarguild Public Chat Valar
Sigma Chat: click on  Type in your guild name as the user name.
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Transcript team: Ar-Pharazon, Varda

Attending (13):
    Aerandir V, ArPharazonV, Arwen V1, Caranthir/MoriFinwe, Eonwe Valar, FladrifV, Gil-galad-V/Xseanzee disco, GilraenV, Lungorthin/sauronjag, FarmerMaggot-V/bnetValar/Bridge, Orodreth V, Ulmo-Valar/HeruRasa, VardaValar1

    Tolkien Encyclopedia
    WoW: Europe using server Argent Dawn.
    Ar-Pharazon: Which Nazgul names circulating on the net and in games are actually from Tolkien?
    Only Khamul.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): Aiya
ArPharazonV: ok, just for transcript purposes:
ArPharazonV: at this point, online in aim, bnetValar and ArPharazonV
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): and in sigmachat: ArPharazonV, and Bridge
ArPharazonV: it is now about 30 minutes before the meeting should start
ArPharazonV: I have just come out of an excellent lotr hero siege map in warcraft 3: frozen throne, and am now waiting for the meeting to begin
ArPharazonV: while surfing the web for updates and new events on my favorite sites
ArPharazonV: \end transcript purposes
ArPharazonV: \transcript purposes: it is now one minute over starting time
ArPharazonV: still, nobody has turned up
ArPharazonV: the bridge just went out, and rejoined
ArPharazonV: \end transcript purposes
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Xseanzee disco has entered the room.
GilraenV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: heya
FladrifV has entered the room.
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
bnetValar: ArPharazonV (SigmaChat): Aiya...
FladrifV: aiya
ArPharazonV: wow
GilraenV: aiya
ArPharazonV: 5 people all at once
ArPharazonV: /transcript purposes: it is now 2-3 minutes past starting time
ArPharazonV: I'm finally not alone any more
ArPharazonV: \end transcript purposes
bnetValar: Varda (SigmaChat): Aiya
Xseanzee disco: Hey all :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Ah, so Varda's hiding out on Sigma :}
ArPharazonV: at the moment, Bridge, Varda, and me on Sigmachat
bnetValar: Varda (SigmaChat): Going to make me invite myself? ;-)
FladrifV: lvl 8 :D
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
FladrifV: sorry for the interuption :-)
ArPharazonV: nice, Flad
VardaValar1: Aiya here too :-)
Eonwe Valar: heya :}
aranfinwe has left the room.
bnetValar has left the room.
bnetValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Has the meeting started?
ArPharazonV: not that I know of, and I've been here for 40 minutes
VardaValar1: Hey! I'm not that late!
ArPharazonV: Hey! I'm that early!
VardaValar1: Way to go, Phar : )
ArPharazonV: lol

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Member News:
VardaValar1: We have a new full member, Anardil-(V)
VardaValar1: He joined in WoW, US, Lothar
VardaValar1: Any other member news?

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: Much updating has been done to the Tolkien Encyclopedia, Powers section
VardaValar1: Being the nutcase that I am, during navigation re-do's so each article has its own page,
VardaValar1: I updated a number of articles and added a few.
VardaValar1: Any other Web News?

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
HeruRasa has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: Gaming News:
HeruRasa: aiya
VardaValar1: We have a number of members in Europe now playing WoW
ArPharazonV: or getting to it... still gotta get that darn pre-paid card
VardaValar1: Those of you not afk in Europe, could you say which servers you are on?
VardaValar1: Elatan, although in Europe, plays US Lothar
VardaValar1: Menelvagor, I think, plays Argent Dawn
VardaValar1: Fladrif, is that the one you are on?
ArPharazonV: I believe it is the one they are playing on, and I will join them some time next week
VardaValar1: Fladrif is now a level 8, gaming at the same time as the meeting and may not know he was just asked : )
VardaValar1: So none of you will be joining Elatan in Lothar, US
FladrifV: yes I play on argent dawn
ArPharazonV: nope, not until they make that permanent connection
VardaValar1: Thanks, Fladrif
FladrifV: and Im knows as Fladrif there
FladrifV: and I'm a elf hunter
VardaValar1: Thanks!
VardaValar1: Go elf hunters! ;-)
FladrifV: Iwant to control those ents :P
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: I'm going to be a druid or a warrior, probably... also Elf, of course
VardaValar1: At least you can be on good terms with them
VardaValar1: If you are both elves, you can find each other easier
FladrifV: we serve the good oversee union :-)
VardaValar1: Is Menel an elf too?
FladrifV: human lvl 55...
VardaValar1: heh - maybe he can make an alt to join you two
ArPharazonV: 55 now? he's slowly getting there...
FladrifV: hehe
FladrifV: lvl 60 highest?
VardaValar1: Be sure and let us hear how the European WoW group is doing.
VardaValar1: Aye, Fladrif
VardaValar1: The Forum is available to Europe as well as to US : )
VardaValar1: Any other WoW news?
VardaValar1: D2X characters need to be checked before they expire
VardaValar1: Mine had 18 days left on them yesterday, barely caught them in time
VardaValar1: Any other gaming news?

VardaValar1: Any Tolkien topics?
ArPharazonV: well, small questoin
VardaValar1: Speak fast, or you get stuck with something I cook up
ArPharazonV: *question
ArPharazonV: it's about the names of the Nazgul
VardaValar1: What about them?
HeruRasa: all one of them with a name?
ArPharazonV: we had a discussion about it on a forum, and somebody said that card-company made up all but two of the names
ArPharazonV: so that would imply 2 names were invented by Tolkien
ArPharazonV: so far, I only recall Khamul being mentioned in UT
Orodreth V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: I remember a Gothmog from somewhere as well.
ArPharazonV: what was the other? was it said in the Letters or something?
Orodreth V: Sorry..didn't see invitations.
ArPharazonV: Gothmog was an Orc, I think... not a Nazgul...
VardaValar1: Aye, Khamul was the number two Nazgul
HeruRasa: Khamul is the only one with a real name, unless you consider The Witchking to be a name
VardaValar1: Gothmog was not a Nazgul, right
Orodreth V: Menevalgor(sp?) isn't here so he's sleeps, says FM.
VardaValar1: Aye, Heru Rasa
Orodreth V: FM is at a diner of some sort.
ArPharazonV: I believe the 'name' given to the Witch King was El-Murazor or something
Orodreth V: And I'm 15.
VardaValar1: One can call the WitchKing as Angmar, after the land where he was Lord
Orodreth V: /me goes back to sleep
ArPharazonV: but haven't found it in Tolkien-books
Aerandir V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Aerandir V: aiya
Eonwe Valar: Complete Guide to Middle-Earth speculates he might've been,.. then again this is the same book that said LotR never uses the term "half-orc" :}
VardaValar1: heh
ArPharazonV: well, not sure, there are lots of now 'common' names that are rarely or never mentioned in the Lotr-narrative...
ArPharazonV: I think the Baranduin was only mentioned once, for example
ArPharazonV: rest of the time it was named Brandywine, or remained nameless
ArPharazonV: I'm sure there are some words never used in Lotr that we think they are
VardaValar1: I only have Murazor listed as a card game name, still checking
Xseanzee disco: i couldny imagine the Anduin being called the Andywine lol...
ArPharazonV: heh
Arwen V1: I have to go study for finals guys, see you later! bye =)
HeruRasa: all 9 were once men, so they did have names, but no detail as to who they were before corruption is reported
Arwen V1 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Here are some more card game names:
VardaValar1: Er-Murazor/ Murazor/ Black Prince/ Tindomul/ Twilight Son/ Murezor
ArPharazonV: is, by any chance, Thuringwethil used as a Nazgul-name?
VardaValar1: No
Xseanzee disco: flying bat lady...
VardaValar1: That is the name of a minion of Sauron
Orodreth V: I need to restart.
VardaValar1: whose bat-fell Luthien used for a disguise
Orodreth V: Back in 5.
VardaValar1: And it was a she, aye, Gil
VardaValar1: Good luck, Oro
ArPharazonV: yes, I know
ArPharazonV: but as I was playing lotr hero siege, it was used as a Nazgul-name
VardaValar1: All of the Nazgul were Kings, no women, despite the card game
ArPharazonV: so I thought... perhaps they took it from the bat's name
ArPharazonV: that would mean, in some way, the second name invented by Tolkien
ArPharazonV: although it was not aimed at the Nazgul themselves
VardaValar1: She might have been a fallen Maia, but she was a vampire, not a Nazgul
VardaValar1: Some speculate that a couple of the named evil Numenoreans might be used for Nazgul names
Aerandir V:
Xseanzee disco: for some reason i am recalling the name Herumor as a Nazgul name. is that one?
Orodreth V has left the room.
VardaValar1: That is one of the speculations, aye
ArPharazonV: Akhorahil sounds familiar...
VardaValar1: Fuinur is another
VardaValar1: If you will look at our Names page
VardaValar1: all of what we just said is there in the Nazgul section
bnetValar: Thror_V (SigmaChat): hello
Aerandir V: I think that site is fan fic
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Aerandir V: or partly
VardaValar1: Since the Nazgul are not named, people grab what they can or make it up
VardaValar1: But only Khamul is actually named
Orodreth V has entered the room.
Orodreth V: Er, did you all leave or is my AIM messing up?
VardaValar1: We are here
ArPharazonV: so... 8 of the 9 were made up by fans? not 7?
VardaValar1: Did they use the name Angmar?
HeruRasa: I love it when people claim there info is accurate when they don't even use any of JRRT's works as reference
ArPharazonV: let's see.... he wasn't sure, actually... lemme fetch the post
VardaValar1: Phar, you would do better using Tolkien or our researched Encyc
ArPharazonV: this was the first post:
ArPharazonV: Though this may be unrelated, I have at times seen the Nine named, and except for Khamûl the Black Easterling, I was never able to find a passage in any books.
ArPharazonV: Were these names invented by fans or were they disclosed in a letter or something?
ArPharazonV: to this was replied:
HeruRasa: I was referring to the link just posted, it goes to a site claiming accuracy
ArPharazonV: While I'm no expert on Middle-Earth, I've heard that all but two of the names of the Nine were invented by Iron Crown Enterprises for their Middle-Earth Roleplay game.
Aerandir V: the card games adds a lot of unofficial info too
ArPharazonV: those two posts was what actually sparked my interest
VardaValar1: Aye, Aerandir
bnetValar: Thror_V (SigmaChat): i be on
VardaValar1: There is a great deal of stuff on the Nazguls, most of it made up, on the Internet
VardaValar1: Aiya Thror!
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Actual info in Tolkien is pretty sparse, so they filled in as they pleased
VardaValar1: They like to ignore that all the Nazgul were males, Kings at that
ArPharazonV: right, but can I get an answer now? were all 8 names invented by this 'Iron Crown Enterprises'?
ArPharazonV: or was another name but Khamul revealed in the Letters or something?
HeruRasa: only Khamul is named by JRRT
VardaValar1: Only Khamul
HeruRasa: The Witchking is a title
VardaValar1: Witchking and Angmar are titles of the number one Nazgul
VardaValar1: Khamul is the name of the number two Nazgul
ArPharazonV: the Black Captain was also the first
ArPharazonV: and Khamul was also the Easterling, or the Shadow of the East
VardaValar1: Also not names
ArPharazonV: I know
VardaValar1: You want names, but only one Nazgul is named.
ArPharazonV: but names like Murazor, etc.... nothing named in Tolkien? that's too bad
VardaValar1: They were intended to be mysterious
ArPharazonV: but I guess that answers my question
VardaValar1: People are trying to remove all the mystery and give them detailed histories
HeruRasa: Khamul was a lieutenent of Sauron, and had another Nazgul as his messenger. The Witchking and the other 6 lived together. On occasion all 9 worked together
VardaValar1: Also, all the evil beings tended to be swallowed into Sauron, losing individuality
VardaValar1: The good guys had the individuality
ArPharazonV: aye, Khamul was at Dol Guldur
VardaValar1: Sauron was at Dol Guldur
HeruRasa: my reference is UT :-)
VardaValar1: Go Ulmo! : )
ArPharazonV: mine too
VardaValar1: Good to give your refs
ArPharazonV: 'the hunt for the ring'
VardaValar1: Did that answer your question?
ArPharazonV: yeah, I guess... not what I had hoped for, but it did the trick
HeruRasa: UT has a section on the search for the ring. Prolly says more about Nazgul than anywhere I know of.
VardaValar1: The Nazgul prepared Barad-dur for Sauron, so he could move there from Dol Guldur
ArPharazonV: right, Ulmo, that was where Khamul was mentioned
HeruRasa: err, The Ring :-)
ArPharazonV: I think I'll call him John Ruling Ring Tolkien from now on...
VardaValar1: Please don't : )
HeruRasa: It is fun to speculate about stuff like: where the Nazgul came from, or their names. To me a lot of the fun is that we DON'T know
ArPharazonV: hmm.... in that article you just linked to, Varda
VardaValar1: Aye. Speculation is good
ArPharazonV: "These two, among others, escaped the sinking of Numenor by sailing to Middle-earth, where they rose to become Lords of the Herudrim. "
ArPharazonV: the Herudrim?
ArPharazonV: I gotta re-read that tale again, I suppose....
VardaValar1: a typo
VardaValar1: More repairs to make
VardaValar1: thanks
VardaValar1: Haradrim
ArPharazonV: np, just noticed it
HeruRasa: the men living south of Mordor
VardaValar1: Aye, I made a misspelling, first thing he notices : )
ArPharazonV: lol
ArPharazonV: not the first
VardaValar1: comments on then ;-)
ArPharazonV: not much, except that I remembered most of it from the Rings of Power
VardaValar1: k
ArPharazonV: then I noticed the typo ;-)

VardaValar1: I need to go
ArPharazonV: really? Namarie then
VardaValar1: Most people here are afk or half there
ArPharazonV: I'll save the transcript
VardaValar1: thanks
VardaValar1: Namarie [Husband was standing to one side of the computer waiting for Varda so they could leave.]
ArPharazonV: wow
ArPharazonV: 45 minutes
HeruRasa: namarie
ArPharazonV: that ain't much
VardaValar1: Just 3 of us here
ArPharazonV: aye, that's true
VardaValar1: No news except mine
VardaValar1: So it was short
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1 has left the room.
HeruRasa: guess I will do some gaming then
ArPharazonV: hmm... perhaps I'll go watch the replay I saved tonight
ArPharazonV: wanna see how I pwned lotr hero siege again ;-)
ArPharazonV: \end bragging
Orodreth V: I'm up for TA, SC, or ET.
HeruRasa: good chat Ar, even if all we proved is we know little :-)
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: that's true
Orodreth V: If I can stay awake.
ArPharazonV: ET?
HeruRasa: namarie all
ArPharazonV: Namarie
HeruRasa has left the room.
Orodreth V: Enemy Territory
ArPharazonV: what's ET?
ArPharazonV: ah
ArPharazonV: don't have it
Orodreth V: Free standalone by id
Orodreth V: about HL1 graphics
Orodreth V: perhaps a little worse
ArPharazonV: unless it was one of those iso's Flad put on my new harddisk...
Orodreth V: but it's free
Orodreth V: so eh
Orodreth V: google it if you're interested
ArPharazonV: what kind of game is it? shooter?
Orodreth V: yea
FladrifV: n ope its not among them arphara
Orodreth V: with a token bit of rpg dropped in
ArPharazonV: ok
Orodreth V: simple skills
FladrifV: curently stealthing so time to chat :-)
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: stealth? that not for a rogue?
ArPharazonV: or are you cross-classing ;-)
Orodreth V: I got up to Lt. General once.
ArPharazonV: don't really like shooters that much, sorry
FladrifV: shadowmelt is racial...
Aerandir V: namarie, gotta go
ArPharazonV: it's fun to play on rare occasion, but still...
ArPharazonV: Namarie
Aerandir V has left the room.
Orodreth V: Med + Field Ops and then heavy weapons.
FladrifV: namarie
ArPharazonV: racial, eh?
Orodreth V: Namarie.
ArPharazonV: of course
ArPharazonV: I read about that... I thought it was toned down, though? only lasting for a certain time?
Orodreth V: I know the perfect spots for every allied and axis arty strike for any spawn. :-D
ArPharazonV: lol
Orodreth V: Stupid axis and their fuel depot.
Orodreth V: Hate playing axis ont hat map.
ArPharazonV: :-)
Orodreth V: If you have bad ops or engies you're dead.
Orodreth V: Allied though?
Orodreth V: Allied is fun.
Orodreth V: Well.
Orodreth V: I need to do two essays.
ArPharazonV: hey, still got war3?
ArPharazonV: with or without expansion?
Orodreth V: Yea, but it won't install on here.
ArPharazonV: ah, k
Orodreth V: I'll try again later.
Orodreth V: I could get SC installed in a few minutes.
ArPharazonV: guess I'll go see if I can find a fun custom map again
ArPharazonV: hmmz.... neh, not really in the mood for SC
Orodreth V: Pfft.
Orodreth V: Loser.
Orodreth V: :-P
ArPharazonV: >:o
ArPharazonV: SC.... not sure.... I never did get the hang of that
ArPharazonV: perhaps I'll play SC2 some day
Orodreth V: Hah.
Orodreth V: If they ever make it.
ArPharazonV: that's why I said 'perhaps' and 'some day' :-)
ArPharazonV: if they ever do make 'Return of the Xel'Naga', you can bet I'll play it, even if just for the story
ArPharazonV: or was that one of those books?
Orodreth V: Everyone who made SC has left Blizzard.
Orodreth V: I doubt SC2 will be worth the jewel case.
Eonwe Valar: Shadow of the Xel Naga was the book
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
Eonwe Valar: As I understood it, it was the guys who did Diablo who left.
Orodreth V: Nope.
Eonwe Valar: Never left, just working on other things :}
Orodreth V: Both did.
Orodreth V: We've got the Guild Wars people and the Hellgate London people.
Orodreth V: Or whatever Flagship's game is called.
Orodreth V: Hellgate: London
Orodreth V: Forgot the :.
ArPharazonV: I think I've heard of that game
Orodreth V: Google flagship studios.
FarmerMaggotV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: yes, I think some website mentioned it... the cover of that magazine looks familiar
ArPharazonV: Aiya
FarmerMaggotV: Aiya
Orodreth V: How was the dinner?
FarmerMaggotV: good, I hate going out to eat though =P
FarmerMaggotV: so much easier just to walk downstairs grab some crackers and a mt. dew and come back up
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: now you're making me thirsty...
FarmerMaggotV: how far into the meeting are we?
Orodreth V: Finished.
ArPharazonV: aftermeeting
FarmerMaggotV: ah
Orodreth V: You fail, FM. :-\
FarmerMaggotV: heh
Orodreth V: I did pass along the message though.
FarmerMaggotV: thankee
ArPharazonV: not much news, and a very short Tolkien-topic I gave...
ArPharazonV: so it went down pretty fast
FarmerMaggotV: ah
Orodreth V has left the room.
FarmerMaggotV: I'm so glad Dad finished my comp. desks so I could get off the floor =)
ArPharazonV: conclusion of the topic? 'we know very little'
ArPharazonV: heh
ArPharazonV: The requested URL was not found on this server.
FarmerMaggotV: well, that's no fun =P, hold
FarmerMaggotV: ok, fixed
ArPharazonV: looks great...
ArPharazonV: when can we come over for your lan-party? ;-)
FarmerMaggotV: heh, had one..... last Tuesday =)
FarmerMaggotV: hm, I think the webserver I wrote has bugs still =P
FladrifV has left the room.
FladrifV has left the room.
sauronjag has entered the room.
sauronjag: heyas
ArPharazonV: Aiya
sauronjag: doh missed meeting
sauronjag: @ gf's rite now
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: don't worry, it's been over for almost an hour now ;-)
Xseanzee disco has left the room.
sauronjag: oops
sauronjag: I'll head out then :-)
sauronjag: take care
FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
sauronjag has left the room.
MoriFinwe has left the room.
bnetValar has left the room.
bnetValar has entered the room.
MoriFinwe has entered the room.
MoriFinwe: Aiya
bnetValar: Caranthir (SigmaChat): Aiya
bnetValar: Caranthir (SigmaChat): i guess i missed the meeting lol
MoriFinwe has left the room.
GilraenV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: well, I guess that wraps it up, then
ArPharazonV: time to save and send