Valar Guild

September 26, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST, 22:00 GMT
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Transcript team for Sept 26:
    Arathorn, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, Farmer Maggot, Varda
Attending (20): roll from Arathorn, Eonwe, and Varda
    Members: Aerandir/mordacil, Arathorn, Ar-Pharazon, Arwen, Caranthir/MoriFinwe, Elatan, Eonwe, Eowyn, Galdor, Gilraen, Grimbold/HearNoEvil80, Gwaihir, FarmerMaggot/Musics4Me2, Olwe/FallenGlory, Orodreth, Oropher/MJKeenan123, Thorondor, Thror, Turgon (after-meeting), Varda (presiding)
    Includes translating "Belthronding"
Meeting Begins
    Arathorn's Maia promotion announced
    Discussion of use of V or Valar as a guild tag
    Turgon: laptop problems one and two
    Orodreth: now on 56k connection, less access to internet
    Tolkien-only: membership requirement 
    Tolkien Encyclopedia:
       Upgrades started
    D2X Middle-earth mod
    BZ Flag
    Rubies of Eventide
    WoW Beta USA
    WoW Beta Europe
    Translation: Belthronding
    Game: tell a little about the Tolkien character whose name you bear, then tap another person to tell about his or hers.
       Varda, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, Arathorn, Farmer Maggot, Arwen, Eowyn, Grimbold, Olwe, Oropher
    Continues with more about Oropher and his kin in the books
    Programming talk

You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
(3:00:57 PM EST) Chugin Chub has entered the room.
(4:04:58 PM) ArPharazonV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:05:01 PM): Aiya
(4:25:03 PM) VardaValar1 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: I'm going to play tft for the next half hour.. I'll remain in this chatroom too
ArPharazonV: If I go offline... I crashed
VardaValar1: I'm doing webwork, will scroll, may you not crash : )
Chugin Chub: hello
VardaValar1: Aiya Thror
GilraenV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Gilraen
GilraenV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Doing a bit of webwork while waiting for the meeting
GilraenV: fun
VardaValar1: Re-did Encyc's Animals and Dwarves sections
VardaValar1: Now with individual entries
VardaValar1: Better for navigation
VardaValar1: Only a zillion more to go, and the contributor's pages
ElatanValar has entered the room.
Orodreth V has entered the room.
ElatanValar: Heyas
Orodreth V: Aiya!
Orodreth V: Dunno how long I can stay.
ElatanValar: Short visit better than none :-)
GilraenV: Aiya Elatan and Orodreth both
Musics4Me2 has entered the room.
Orodreth V: Aiya Farmer.
Musics4Me2: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya
VardaValar1: Short visit is enough for your monthly howdy : )
VardaValar1: And all those nice emails : )
Orodreth V: Yea. Miss seeing ya'll.
VardaValar1: Good to see you again too
VardaValar1: Pardon if I answer in pauses, doing webwork while waiting for meeting time
Musics4Me2 has left the room.
ElatanValar: np, ill take a nap in between then :-)
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: 10 minute nap, enjoy!
Farmer Maggot V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiyata
Farmer Maggot V: :-)
ElatanValar: wb farmer
VardaValar1: New improved screen name : )
Orodreth V: Anyone here good with latin? I'm having trouble with my second declination nouns.
ElatanValar: nice to see guildnames , easier to know whos who and why and shows some good respect for the meeting :-)
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
ElatanValar: sory Orodreth, Have never learned the dead language.
GwaihirValar: hey
GwaihirValar: which dead language?
GwaihirValar: Latin or BASIC?
GwaihirValar: ;-)
ElatanValar: greetings eagle. Latin
Farmer Maggot V: heh
VardaValar1: hehe
GilraenV: lol
GwaihirValar: ah, okay :-)
Farmer Maggot V: afk
Orodreth V: Eh. I'll be back in a few. Stupid -er endings.
ElatanValar: speaking of laguages, has anyone ever seen or heard a translation of Beltronding ?
ElatanValar: guess not then. too bad since I would have liked to hear it
ElatanValar: been trying to figure it out. I suspect it would be Sindarin due to Beleg but not sure.
VardaValar1: Belthronding?
ElatanValar: aye
VardaValar1: I'd have to dig. Will scribble a note now
ElatanValar: If it is Sindarin it could be "could" :-) Bel as in Belegaer : Mighty or great
VardaValar1: You want the word or a poem translated?
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ElatanValar: Thron could be from Thoron : eagle
VardaValar1: Aiya
Farmer Maggot V: back
ArathornValar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: hey all
VardaValar1: Complete Guide to M-e says it's Sindarin
GwaihirValar: Belthronding sounds really familiar, but my mind is blanking as to what/where it's from *sighsA*
ElatanValar: and Ing as Like. that would be something like Mighty bow of eagles or great like eagles in the meaning of strong, flying high and long with swift darts or something
VardaValar1: Beleg's bow
GwaihirValar: ahh... ya...
VardaValar1: Beleg means "mighty"
ElatanValar: but havent seen any kind of translation unfortunately
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Arwen V1: hi
VardaValar1: Eowyn says hi, will be here shortly
ThorondorV has entered the room.
ThorondorV: heya
Arwen V1: niftyneato
VardaValar1: Aiya Thorondor
ElatanValar: Aye Varda just as Belegaer means Mighty sea or great sea
VardaValar1: Aye, so we're pretty sure the first part could be Mighty
ElatanValar: Heyas Thoronfor and Arwen, Eonwë and Arathorn :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hey :}
ElatanValar: yea at least it would be in it :-)
VardaValar1: thon would be pine tree, so can't be from that. It's yew
VardaValar1: thoron is looking good so far
VardaValar1: "rond" is an arch
Eonwe Valar: Thron I believe is an earlier form of Thoron
ElatanValar: yep, saw that one too so thought it could derive from Thoron : eagle
Eonwe Valar: somewhere during the transition from Ramandor to Thorondor
VardaValar1: an arch could be a bow
ThorondorV: or was is Ramandur?
mordacil has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: might've been both :}
mordacil has left the room.
ThorondorV: I think I've seen at least Ramandur
ArPharazonV: hmm... took longer than expected, lemme stoll
ArPharazonV: *stroll
VardaValar1: We're trying to translate Belthronding : )
ArPharazonV: *scroll
Aerandir V has entered the room.
ElatanValar: so if we are right we have Mighty and Eagle
ArPharazonV: Aiya all of you
ArPharazonV: sorry I'm late
VardaValar1: Or Mighty Bow
ArPharazonV: I was gaming
ElatanValar: Heyas Pharazôn
VardaValar1: Still working on "ing"
ArPharazonV: just a few games of notd
GilraenV: the actual meeting hasn't started yet
ThorondorV: Bel means strong
ArPharazonV: yes, I scrolled a little, I know
VardaValar1: Ingwe doesn't show a meeting
VardaValar1: meaning, heh
ElatanValar: Ing can be used as Like in Sindarin
VardaValar1: Meeting on the mind
ArPharazonV: anyway, Orodreth, I've got a WoS question
ArPharazonV: I'll IM it to you?
Eonwe Valar: Beleg = example of sword-and-bow-wielding Elf :}
Eonwe Valar: sorry, flipped back to page about his burial,.. was reminded he carried Anglachel, so he must've been able to use it
ElatanValar: in the sence of I am alike you not as I like you ;-)
ThorondorV: ding may be just reference to the sound it makes
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: If it's "rond" for bow, then it could be ing
Eonwe Valar: What does "Ing" in Ingwë mean? "Like a man" ?
Eonwe Valar: we refers to manhood, vigour, etc
ArPharazonV: I thought it meant '1'?
ElatanValar: I think it is but could be Belt-hron-ding but none of those words appear in my Sindarin vocabolary
Eonwe Valar: essentially a male at his prime
VardaValar1: I'm looking in the back of the Silmarillion
FallenGlory has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
FallenGlory: Heya
VardaValar1: Sil not being very helpful : )
ElatanValar: nope
Eonwe Valar: Already looked there, found it didn't say much :}
MJKeenan123 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: I thought the Histories said Ingwe or 'Ing' meant 1...
VardaValar1: So we have Bel "mighty", rond "bow" and ing unknown
VardaValar1: Aiya
MoriFinwe has entered the room.
ElatanValar: I havent found it in any of the index`s Helpful I mean
MoriFinwe: Aiya
VardaValar1: I think it was translated in the text
VardaValar1: in the story
ElatanValar: heyas
ArPharazonV: 'mighty one with bow'
ArPharazonV: 'one with mighty bow'
Orodreth V: Back.
VardaValar1: So it would be "strong bow" like Cuthalion
Eonwe Valar: thrond in BoLT refers to an eagle's eyrie or pinnacle
ElatanValar: a bow with a bow ? Pharazôn
ArPharazonV: I did not say that
ArPharazonV: I said Ingwe meant 'one'
ElatanValar: ahh
ThorondorV: thrôn means stiff/hard in sindarin
ElatanValar: ahh good one Thorondor Mighty hard bow
ThorondorV: heh
VardaValar1: brb
Aerandir V: what time does the meeting start EST?
GwaihirValar: 5 usually
ThorondorV: 5 pm?
ArPharazonV: Ainuyaxë... 17 people already
ElatanValar: did start 25 mins ago :-)
GwaihirValar: however, it gets delayed fairly often... so we don't generally OFFICIALLY start util a bit later
GwaihirValar: but still meeting ;-)
Orodreth V: On the subject of names, how about Arothir?
VardaValar1: back
Orodreth V: I know it's Sindarin.
ElatanValar: a language to start with would be nice
ArPharazonV: and no Turgon... he's missing a lot
VardaValar1: You want to do Tolkien first, then the business meeting?
VardaValar1: Reversal : )
ArPharazonV: business first would be better
VardaValar1: Pardon, had to check out a rat skeleton, very well preserved
VardaValar1: Elatan has to leave fairly early
ArPharazonV: tolkien degrades into after-meeting more smoothly than business
VardaValar1: Well don't degrade it Phar : )
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: I know, we've talked about that...
ThorondorV: I just came to say hi too, actually.. don't want to oversleep tomorrow..
VardaValar1: Arothir?
ElatanValar: sorry I wont have time for any, been up long and have a long day coming.
Orodreth V: Aye.
VardaValar1: Thanks for dropping by
ArPharazonV: bye
VardaValar1: You just did one, Elatan. Belthronding translation
ThorondorV: Always nice to visit at least
ThorondorV: Namarie..
VardaValar1: : )
ThorondorV has left the room.
ElatanValar: will wish you all a pleasent meeting and a good night / evening
ArPharazonV: Mara Lome
Eonwe Valar: sleep well :}
MoriFinwe has left the room.
ElatanValar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: down to 14
VardaValar1: You know it goes up and down, nature of the beast
VardaValar1: Let's start the business meeting

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Membership:
DaeTPringl has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Eowyn : )
DaeTPringl: Hail (from Eowyn)
VardaValar1: Arathorn passed his Maia test last Sunday : )
DaeTPringl: Yay, Arathorn!
VardaValar1: Chose to keep the name Arathorn
ArPharazonV: wait, that brings a question to my mind
ArPharazonV: sorry to interrupt so soon
ArPharazonV: but it's only the custom for Maiar and Valar to have 'Valar' behind their name, right?
ArathornValar: <does the can't touch this Hammer dance .. <snortle!> :-P
VardaValar1: Yes, Phar
VardaValar1: It helps people differentiate between those who can and can't test
ArPharazonV: Then why have I had the account 'ArathornValar' in my list from the earliest meetings on AIM/
ArPharazonV: ?
VardaValar1: Because that's how Arathorn made it
ArPharazonV: but if he just this week passed the test
VardaValar1: It is not a rule, just a custom
ArPharazonV: oh, ok
GwaihirValar: aye, it's a recommendation
VardaValar1: I use a V on the end of a lot of my long names, and some short names
GwaihirValar: we're picky about some things... that's not one of them ;-)
VardaValar1: It is helpful to use Valar to show one can test
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: We try to do it that way, but it is hard to enforce : )
VardaValar1: If you can't enforce it, don't make it a rule
ArPharazonV: well, who knows... one of these days I could come up with an account CalionValar ;-)
ArPharazonV: or TarCalionValar...
VardaValar1: But we can ask and make it a tradition
VardaValar1: Since you know better, you might stick to V
ArPharazonV: but, if I follow the 'custom', that could be far far in the future...
VardaValar1: Turgon said he had to miss the meeting last time because the friend he's borrowing the laptop from needed it
VardaValar1: Probably happened again
ArPharazonV: perhaps he has a meeting too?
Orodreth V: AIM names are as a rule less availible then say, names.
VardaValar1: Bnet names are also difficult, one reason we use the guild ending : )
ArPharazonV: Hm, you have a point, Orodreth, perhaps I should reserve TarCalionValar already....
VardaValar1: Most outsiders don't tack a V on the end of a Tolkien name
Orodreth V: Yea.
GilraenV: no, but if someone's had yuor name before
GilraenV: and so name-V already exists
VardaValar1: and they don't use the Valar at the end generally, so our names are available
VardaValar1: It is kind to hand over the account to the new guy, cleaned and with a neutral pass such as Valar to be changed
Orodreth V: I've seen quite a few like OrodreththeElf or something, so it's bound to happen eventually I bet.
ArPharazonV: ok, guess I already carried this topic too far off already...
ArPharazonV: you may continue the business :-)
VardaValar1: That is part of membership info, np
VardaValar1: Why thank you, Phar, for your permission ; )
ArPharazonV: oh, ok... being extra careful now
ArPharazonV: just a recommendation
VardaValar1: Orodreth's grandmother passed away,
VardaValar1: so he now uses the 56k connection on his mother's comp,
VardaValar1: since he now lives with his parents.
GwaihirValar: aye, I remember passing Glorfindel off... I even left all my d2x characters alive for him to strip for his own purposes hehe
VardaValar1: More details are on the News if you want them
VardaValar1: On passing characters, we prefer not to pass leveled characters
Orodreth V: I can access my e-mail at least once a day,
VardaValar1: Let them learn about the guild while in it, leveling with us and getting to know us
VardaValar1: Thanks, Oro
VardaValar1: Doing good if you check it that often : )
ArPharazonV: he said 'can' access ;-)
Orodreth V: I may get SC/BW on here. More likely I'll get WoS..those will be my only games for some time.
VardaValar1: I saw, Phar
ArPharazonV: he might only check it weekly
Orodreth V: Splitting hairs much da?
VardaValar1: He's been emailing with me much more than that : )
VardaValar1: Let it be, please, Phar
VardaValar1: Any other Member news?
ArPharazonV: :-X... sorry

VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: New poem:
VardaValar1: "Revenge Lives in the House of Ransom"
VardaValar1: about Mim the Petty Dwarf, from his point of view
VardaValar1: Goes with the Beleg discussion earlier : )
VardaValar1: written by He that Walks Unseen-TV
VardaValar1: Farmer Maggot has a request for programmer discussion, posted on the Forum. Go ahead, Farmer
Farmer Maggot V: Ok, :-)
Farmer Maggot V: I was wondering if there'd be any interest in getting a bunch of guild people together to program :-)
VardaValar1: Programming what?
Farmer Maggot V: Anything, my interests are protocols, database stuff, and whatever happens to catch my interest :P
VardaValar1: Any JavaScript?
Farmer Maggot V: hm... perhaps, but it wasn't what I was thinking -> I was thinking more a language for 'desktop' apps (vs. web apps)
VardaValar1: Those interested in working out programming problems feel free to respond to Farmer's Forum post, and maybe get together on AIM for live work
VardaValar1: Ok, web guys have a separate Forum section anyway : )
VardaValar1: Did you have more to say, Farmer?
Farmer Maggot V: nope, just AIM me sometime, or respond to the forum post :-)
VardaValar1: Cool. Farmer has been doing some neat demos of stuff for me on AIM, works well as a way to discuss programming
VardaValar1: The Tolkien Encyc is being updated
GwaihirValar: gotta restart, be back in a bit...
VardaValar1: Animals and Dwarves are mostly done
ArathornValar: Personally I'd like to code a web version of the Encyc./
GwaihirValar has left the room.
VardaValar1: The articles are listed separately now, for improved navigation
VardaValar1: Much much more to go on this tarbaby
VardaValar1: We could use an online Search, Arathorn. What did you have in mind?
Farmer Maggot V: You thinking Java / PHP / what?
VardaValar1: It has to be something I can work with, guys, near programming illiterate : )
ArathornValar: would have to be donw using a database or file system for searches.
VardaValar1: Farmer was working on an offline Search
ArathornValar: php would work. Java could be tried but may6 be overkill.. C++ is possible or perl
VardaValar1: I'm making it harder by totally changing the Encyc
VardaValar1: What is it about the Encyc that bothers you so much that change is needed? That would help narrow down what to do
Farmer Maggot V: would be nice to have it database driven, espicially for you Varda :-)
ArathornValar: Well, a database application would make it easier. They're made for searching ..heh
VardaValar1: How would that be nice, Farmer?
ArathornValar: Coding it is the difficult part, As Farm may attest to at our first try with RealBasic :-P
Farmer Maggot V: dynamic page generation, you only have to input data into the database, no formatting heh
Farmer Maggot V: yes, we only had a week though :P
VardaValar1: I'm trying to rig a subject and alphabetical search now
HearNoEvil80 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArathornValar: You would have an interface to add, delete, update
Orodreth V: Looks like I'm going.
Farmer Maggot V: cya Orodreth!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
VardaValar1: Namarie, Orodreth
Orodreth V: Namarie.
VardaValar1: I have an interface for that, not sure how it would help. Maybe we should discuss this outside meeting since educating me may take a while : )
Farmer Maggot V: aye hehe
VardaValar1: After-meeting for programmers?
Farmer Maggot V: sounds fun :D
VardaValar1: Eonwe has Web news. Go ahead, Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Hopefully you all got my e-mail about the annual Games Page Update a few weeks ago
Orodreth V has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: As mentioned in the e-mail I'd like everyone to send in their info by September 30th. While I will obviously still take updates afterwards, I would prefer to have everyone's info by then
Eonwe Valar: It makes the update a bit easier. So, if you haven't sent your info in yet, you've got 4 more days :}
GaldorV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
GaldorV: aiya
Eonwe Valar: And if you didn't recieve an e-mail, send in your info anyway.
Eonwe Valar: That's it
Farmer Maggot V: afk for about 10
ArPharazonV: did you... get my email yet?
Eonwe Valar: I've got several e-mails so far, but haven't sifted through them all Phar.
GilraenV: I have to go sleep... first day of uni tomorrow and I'm dead tired
GilraenV: Namarie all
VardaValar1: Good luck with it!
GilraenV: thanks
HearNoEvil80: Namarie, G'luck
GilraenV: thanks guys
GilraenV: namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie
GaldorV: Good luck
GilraenV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: ah... university... what a wonderful thing :-P
ArPharazonV: /interruption, continue
VardaValar1: Any other Web news? I know a number of you have web pages

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
HearNoEvil80 has left the room.
VardaValar1: BZFlag:
ArathornValar: er.. web...
VardaValar1: Fladrif says his BZFlag server is up again
VardaValar1: Ara, go ahead
ArathornValar: For anyone playing or interested in the D2X Tolkien mod, I've updated our uniques and sets pages with all the stuff Eonwe and I have found playing it. you can email me with info on any you find to add.
Grimbold V has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArathornValar: X/d2lodmeuniques.htm
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Grimbold V: Aiya
ArathornValar: X/d2lodmesets.htm
ArPharazonV: hmm... my battlegear?
ArPharazonV: Darn, I need to get this game quick... I wanna see how I look in my armor ;-)
ArPharazonV: continue...
ArathornValar: Also, Grimbold and I finished up the WoW beta last week...
ArathornValar: Was quite addictive.. we're both in serious withdrawal now <heh>...
VardaValar1: Are you guys allowed to give us a review for the Gaming pages?
ArathornValar: You can check out some snapshots and comments at:
ArathornValar: /wow.htm
ArathornValar: I also found a WoW type game that you can play for free:
ArathornValar: It's no where near as fancy as WoW but uses the same ideas and gameplay.
ArathornValar: It was an open beta so I can't see why not.
ArathornValar: Anyway, that link is just a few commecnt from yours truly (Grimbold working on his and I'll update when he sends to me).
VardaValar1: Ok. Sometimes Blizzard gives us a warning, but usually during a Beta rather than after
ArathornValar: This "Rubies" game is run by donations, so they have a server that you can still play free on
ArPharazonV: European WoW beta drawing near, signs are multiplying.... I'm starting to get nervous
ArathornValar: They have a closed beta coming up, but it's only by invitation, which nother of us have gotten as yet :-(
ArathornValar: Any other info is on the sites or in the news (for more details) :-)
ArathornValar: That's it.
VardaValar1: Thanks Arathorn and Grimbold : )
VardaValar1: Any other Gaming News?
VardaValar1: I saw Earendil on EverQuest : )
VardaValar1: He's still alive and kicking
VardaValar1: Any further business, comments, suggestions?
ArathornValar: oh.. on thing..
ArathornValar: *one..
VardaValar1: Fire away : )
ArathornValar: You can check out Daily snapshots sent to blizzard that they have been compiling at
ArathornValar: Some are quite impressive :-)
VardaValar1: Cool!
VardaValar1: Any further news?
ArPharazonV: wow... the quality is better than I ever dreamed...
ArPharazonV: s/screenshot.aspx?ImageIndex=12&Set=0 just look at that portal!

VardaValar1: Please PM me Tolkien topics
VardaValar1: We had a question earlier on translations:
VardaValar1: Belthronding
VardaValar1: Arothir
VardaValar1: We also had a suggestion from Orodreth:
VardaValar1: the changing versions of the Walking Song as the story progresses
GaldorV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Before I forget to mention:
VardaValar1: Tolkien-only members now need to apply with at least one contribution of any kind to the Tolkien Encyclopedia
VardaValar1: This includes any articles, poems, stories, translations, art, book reviews
VardaValar1: although just a book review might be pushing it
VardaValar1: So I trust all of you could pass that Tolkien-only member test? ; )
ArPharazonV: *looks from to left to right, and back to Varda* suuuuure
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Feel free to send in anything. We take from very short to enormous book-length
Eonwe Valar: ok Phar, you've volunteered to take the test :}
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: is it stated when the contribution has to be made ;-)
ArPharazonV: ?
VardaValar1: Eonwe has a zillion articles, so he can say that
VardaValar1: You are already a member, so you have no fear
VardaValar1: The Tolkien-onlies have to contribute to join
ArPharazonV: phew *wipes off forehead*
VardaValar1: sort of like the full members have to pass a LotR test
VardaValar1: If you know anything about your own character, you have material
VardaValar1: So Chugin Chub there could tell us who Thror is, or what part he played in the story, or about his ancestors, his name, or what he looked like.
VardaValar1: Any of those could be an article or all included
VardaValar1: Could each of you tell one line about the character you role-play?
VardaValar1: For instance, Varda is a Valie who is interested in beauty and light, famous for setting up the starlight so the Elves would not awake in darkness.
VardaValar1: Who is Eonwe/
VardaValar1: ?
Eonwe Valar: Depends on who you ask :}
VardaValar1: hehe - I'll ask you
ArathornValar: Hmm.. I thought you were referring to the Meo role play ..?
VardaValar1: No, to the books
ArPharazonV: Ar-Pharazon, aka Tar-Calion, was the last and mightiest of the Kings of Numenor, who at last assailed the Valar, destroying his own kingdom in the process.
Eonwe Valar: Well, I have to give 2 lines :} In the official tales, Eonwë is the Herald of Manwë and General of the Armies of the Valar.
ArathornValar: I sent in my tid bits on Arathorn early on in my membership. Wasn't much on him though :/
VardaValar1: (thus our Games master)
Eonwe Valar: In the unofficial tales he is the son of Manwë and Varda, but still elader of the Armies of the Valar.
Eonwe Valar: *leader
Eonwe Valar: So who is Farmer Maggot? :}
VardaValar1: I should also mention Varda hears all prayers, (thus I'm contact person)
ArPharazonV: hmm... I'm just reading the article about Pharazon, and noticing a remarkable detail.. which had slipped my mind
ArPharazonV: they came to Aman, and Pharazon wavered. Pharazon wavered seeing the great mountain of Tanquetil. Yet he was now a slave to his pride,
VardaValar1: Farmer had to go eat, afk
ArPharazonV: also:
VardaValar1: (I hear all via PM)
ArPharazonV: greatest tyrant on Middle-earth, being surpassed only by Melkor and Sauron. That is to say of course, so ends the most wretched, pitiful slave to Sauron, who was surpassed by none, even those who bore his Ring in the third age.
VardaValar1: Phar certainly had a lasting effect on geography and what happened to Elves leaving Middle-earth
ArPharazonV: interesting... makes me think... was there really some good left in him, defeated by his pride, and his influence by Sauron?
VardaValar1: Sauron worked very hard on him, the results surpassing what he intended.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm no Farmer Maggot, so who is this Pharazon guy we keep hearing about in Valinor? :}
VardaValar1: Amazing any of the Faithful survived
ArPharazonV: most faithful were already in ME, I think...
ArPharazonV: only Elendil, his sons, and their fleets were left on Numenor itself
ArPharazonV: and they were swept inland by the waves
VardaValar1: I tapped Eonwe's shoulder, he's tapped Pharazon's. Now it's Pharazon's turn to pick the next person
ArPharazonV: I tap... well...
ArPharazonV: Thror
ArPharazonV: can you summarize Thror in one line?
VardaValar1: Doesn't have to be one line. You would have gone over, Phar ; )
ArPharazonV: my line was already made, the rest was just an observation from the article, and the pondering over the observation
ArPharazonV: actually, my line was already made before Eonwe's :-)
VardaValar1: If your person does not respond, you can pick another
VardaValar1: I'll drop the one line rule if that helps
ArPharazonV: Arathorn... you still out there?
ArathornValar: Sorry, I'
ArathornValar: m doing a few things at once here ...
ArathornValar: Arathorn, son of Arador (Chieftan of the Dúnedain). Born 2873, d. 2933. Married to Gilraen and father of Aragorn,
ArathornValar: was slain by an orc-arrow while riding against the orcs with the sons of Elrond.
ArPharazonV: in the eye, I seem to recall?
ArathornValar: Short life. Mostly spent hunting orcs. Pity.
ArathornValar: Yes... a tad too graphic for my liking :/
ArPharazonV: /interruption/Does anybody here speak Spanish?/end interruption
VardaValar1: Arathorn, you get to pick the next person
Farmer Maggot V: ok, my turn from a while back -> Farmer Maggot -> Friend of Bombadill, grew mushrooms (and chased younger hobbits out of his fields), was a hobbit, and had a few dogs
VardaValar1: Remember the names of the three dogs? Used to be a test question. ;-)
VardaValar1: Too nit-picky for entry tests
ArPharazonV: really? wow... I'd have to think really hard about that
ArPharazonV: ok, I've got 2 of them... now, what was the third...
Eonwe Valar: hand, tooth, and dog :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Nice hints
ArPharazonV: right, the first two I had
ArPharazonV: the 'dog' eludes me...
VardaValar1: maybe wild dog for the hint?
ArPharazonV: wolf?
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: and grip and fang?
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: woohoo
ArPharazonV: and that without even a re-read...
ArPharazonV: could be I remember them from the game, though...
ArPharazonV: ok, back to Maggot
Farmer Maggot V: I actually remembered fang heh
VardaValar1: Good : )
ArPharazonV: any more of these questions ready to throw in the meeting? ;-)
ArPharazonV: I like the mini-quiz
VardaValar1: Who me? I've been asking questions since 1997, np
VardaValar1: Farmer, like to tap the next shoulder?
ArPharazonV: *pokes Farmer, trying to wake him up*
VardaValar1: We could go down the line
Farmer Maggot V: sorry, got distracted :P
VardaValar1: Programming?
Farmer Maggot V: helping Arathorn setup blog on meh server :-)
Farmer Maggot V: but OK, how about Grimbold?
VardaValar1: We need an afk remark to the right of people's names
ArPharazonV: that would be cool
Farmer Maggot V: or perhaps he isn't in the chat anymore heh
VardaValar1: Arwen is afk
Farmer Maggot V: Ok, /me passes the hat to Gwaihir
ArPharazonV: we've got so many people here! come on!
ArPharazonV: and Gwaihir's not even here yet
VardaValar1: Gwaihir left
ArPharazonV: rebooting the pc seems to take longer than expected...
Farmer Maggot V: sigh, I don't think this beta chat program updates the partipicants list right
VardaValar1: ouch
Farmer Maggot V: so, whoever is here, that hasn't gone, I pick you :P
VardaValar1: Arwen is back
Arwen V1: nod
Farmer Maggot V: ok then, your turn Arwen heh
Arwen V1: yay?
DaeTPringl: heehee
VardaValar1: Yay!
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
ArathornValar: I'm more AOP not afk... (All Over the Place)
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: Good description
Farmer Maggot V: agreed heh
Arwen V1: My character is obviously Arwen, I mean, just look at my name =P In LotR, she didnt show up much except for in the apendisies(I know I spelled that one wrong), but she is mentioned in two places.
Aerandir V has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Aerandir is gone... guess he didn't want to summarize his character :-(
Arwen V1: When Frodo and company get to Elrond's she is mentioned as his daughter and as the Evenstar. At the end of the book she is also mentioned when she marries Aragorn.
VardaValar1: Aerandir was called away, apologized
Arwen V1: That is basically what I have currently. I dont know if she is mentioned in any of the other works, I havent read them yet.
VardaValar1: Just the Appendices, as you mentioned
Arwen V1: cool
Arwen V1: the apendicies tell of the romance between them I believe.
Arwen V1: is pretty nifty
VardaValar1: You get to tap the next shoulder, Arwen
VardaValar1: Galdor said he's having a comp problem listed here:
VardaValar1: =243557
Arwen V1: I vote Eowyn goes next =D
DaeTPringl: I knew it...
VardaValar1: Spoken like a mischievous best friend!
ArPharazonV: you're the only one here who hasn't gone yet ;-)
Arwen V1: hehe
DaeTPringl: Eowyn is the sister of Eomer and the niece of King Theoden
DaeTPringl: they live in Rohan
DaeTPringl: thrilling, huh? and...
DaeTPringl: She rode to Gondor with King Theoden's army disguised as a man, calling herself Dernhelm.
DaeTPringl: Merry rode with her
DaeTPringl: Withy Merry's help she killed the Witch King and his steed
DaeTPringl: She was injured during the battle
DaeTPringl: and had to recover from the black breath
DaeTPringl: in the Houses of Healing
DaeTPringl: She recovered and eventually married Faramir
DaeTPringl: she's sometimes called The White Lady of Ithilien
DaeTPringl: That's all I remember at the moment
DaeTPringl: Oh, and she was fond of Aragorn
DaeTPringl: Who hasn't gone?
DaeTPringl: I tag Grimbold
Grimbold V: Aiya everyone who I haven't seen in such a long while
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Farmer Maggot V: Aiya
Arwen V1: Aiya
Grimbold V: I beg your pardon about not knowing enough of my character, I'm not as fortunate to have the privilege of reading all The Tolkien books.....
Grimbold V: However this is what I do know of my char.
Grimbold V: He was a Marshal of Rohan, served under King Theoden. He was a Rider in the Rohirrim as well until his death during the battle of Pelennor Fields.
Grimbold V: If anyone knows anything else about him plz contribute, as I am intrigued by Rohan and its culture
ArPharazonV: what Marshal was he?
ArPharazonV: what number?
Grimbold V: That I do not know...the info I got was from a Tolkien dictionary I skimmed through at a bookstore when I first started going through the process of entering the guild. Wanted to at least know something about him.
Grimbold V: Was not as specific as I was hoping
Grimbold V: Okies I've been asked to tag another
Grimbold V: I tag FallenGlory
FallenGlory: heh, alright
Grimbold V: If he/she is present and not afk
Grimbold V: alright!
FallenGlory: My character is Olwe, so this should be nice and quick :-)
FallenGlory: from what I recall Olwe was the Teleri Lord who led those who wished to continue to Aman there
FallenGlory: Ruler of Teleri in Alaquonde (sp?)
VardaValar1: Alqualonde
FallenGlory: thank you
FallenGlory: :-)
VardaValar1: mp
FallenGlory: other than that, not sure there's much more to tell
VardaValar1: Thingol's brother, had to take over for him when Melian entranced him
FallenGlory: right
FallenGlory: other than that, is there anything I left out that's of any note?
VardaValar1: Feanor asked him about some ships
ArPharazonV: and proceeded to slaughter his people...
VardaValar1: I thought it was a nice understated hint ; )
ArPharazonV: is my language to harsh?
VardaValar1: Not at all
ArPharazonV: ok
VardaValar1: Was nudging Olwe
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArPharazonV: whatever happened to Olwe in that battle?
ArPharazonV: any record of that?
VardaValar1: I don't recollect. Good question
Eonwe Valar: He lived from all implications
FallenGlory: wow, sorry, was called upstairs
Eonwe Valar: all implications I get anyway :}
ArPharazonV: I believe they were related, right? Olwe's daughter being married to somebody in the family?
VardaValar1: That would be my guess, Eonwe
FallenGlory: Should probably be re-reading Tolkien's books, it's been a while, heh
ArPharazonV: hold on, still have the family-tree somewhere...
VardaValar1: Olwe's daughter was Earwen
VardaValar1: Feel free, Olwe!
ArPharazonV: ah, to Finarfin
VardaValar1: Earwen married Finarfin
VardaValar1: Parents of Finrod, Galadriel,
VardaValar1: Orodreth : )
VardaValar1: Angrod, Aegnor
ArPharazonV: which means Arwen was an ascendant from Olwe...
VardaValar1: Lot of kids for Elves
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Since Galadriel's daughter was Celebrian, mother of Arwen
ArPharazonV: Aragorn was an ascendant of the 3 houses of Men, of the Noldor, the sister of Ingwe, and of Thingol...
ArPharazonV: together they tie all the royal families together
VardaValar1: Except Feanor's. Cut him off
ArPharazonV: well, they do come from Finwe... I consider that a family
VardaValar1: So upwards and sideways. The branch cut off
ArPharazonV: well, ok then
VardaValar1: But aye, related is related
VardaValar1: Oropher is back temporarily
FallenGlory: argh, I'm sorry, I've got a family matter that just popped up
FallenGlory: if you'll all excuse me for a bit?
ArPharazonV: Hmm... I remember still wanting to print out the family-tree, and wanting to hang it in my room :-)
ArPharazonV: ok, bye
VardaValar1: Namarie Olwe
DaeTPringl: Namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie
FallenGlory: bye
FallenGlory has left the room.
ArPharazonV: and here we are, my first anniversary close at hand, and still haven't printed the thing yet...
Eonwe Valar: Your own fault :}
VardaValar1: Oropher's turn : )
MJKeenan123: Hi all, I was told that you all wanted to hear of my character?
ArPharazonV: yup, tell away!
MJKeenan123: He was the wood elf king before Thranduil
MJKeenan123: started mirkwood the great
MJKeenan123: thus is Legolas' grandfather
MJKeenan123: he was killed during the last alliance of elves and men
MJKeenan123: he wasnt really mentioned much in LotR and its been a while since I read Silm.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Oropher!
VardaValar1: We were wondering if he had any Noldo blood in him
VardaValar1: Seemed there was a spot telling about it that we lost track of
ArPharazonV: any idea where? Unfinished Tales, perhaps?
VardaValar1: I read too many books and lost track
VardaValar1: Might be remembering someone with a similar name
ArPharazonV: sounds like something for the unfinished tales
ArPharazonV: probably the large chapter about Galadriel, Celeborn, and related topics
ArPharazonV: including the wonderful tale of Amroth and Nimrodel...
ArPharazonV: haven't read the book in a while, though, so I couldn't be sure
VardaValar1: If you can find it, please let me know, anyone : )
ArPharazonV: I'll go get the book now, perhaps I'll find something quickly...
VardaValar1: Thanks
ArPharazonV: more and more books are being moved from the plank in my room to the pile besides the computer ;-)
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I have a shelf of Tolkien by the comp
VardaValar1: er, make that two shelves
Farmer Maggot V: long meeting, and it isn't even the after meeting yet (I think) heh
VardaValar1: That was every one, I believe
VardaValar1: Did we leave out anyone?
ArPharazonV: actually, we're still moving on a suggestion at the beginning of the tolkien-section
VardaValar1: Isn't that enough?
ArPharazonV: I'm not even sure if it was Tolkien-topic...
VardaValar1: Phar, please feel free to look up the reference
VardaValar1: Yes, it most certainly was a Tolkien topic
ArPharazonV: yeah, I'm going through the book
VardaValar1: We talked a lot of Tolkien and played a Tolkien game
VardaValar1: We haven't played a game in a long time

VardaValar1: After-Meeting:
VardaValar1: Farmer, you wanted to talk comp programming/
VardaValar1: ?
Farmer Maggot V: yeah, who here is interested?
VardaValar1: Arathorn, your fellow programmer
DaeTPringl: I have taken programming classes
VardaValar1: I know very little, but need the results of your work : )
ArPharazonV: hmm... I have something
ArPharazonV: it seems Oropher and his kin were originally related to the Elves of Lorien, before moving northwards above the Gladden Fields
Farmer Maggot V: I was thinking learning Java, but it's up for debate heh
VardaValar1: Elves of Lorien were silvan, as were those of Mirkwood, except Galadriel
ArPharazonV: 'This he did to be free from the power and encroachments of the Dwarves.....'
VardaValar1: and Galadriel : )
ArPharazonV: 'and also he resented the intrusions of Celeborn and Galadriel'
ArPharazonV: more on their origin I cannot find, unless there were something about the first elves of Lorien
ArPharazonV: Appendix B of lotr has something else...
ArPharazonV: 'In the beginning of this age many of the High Elves still remained.'
ArPharazonV: 'Most of these dwelt in Lindon west of the Ered Luin; but before the building of the Baraddur many of the Sindar passed eastward,'
ArPharazonV: 'and some established realms in the forests far away, where their people were mostly Silvan Elves.'
ArPharazonV: 'Thranduil ... was one of these.'
ArPharazonV: this would imply Thranduil was Sindarin
VardaValar1: Thranduil is definitely Sindarin
VardaValar1: But is there some Noldo way in the background?
ArPharazonV: again, I see nothing...
ArPharazonV: hang on, I'll check that family-tree :-)
VardaValar1: Farmer, what program were you thinking of for a database?
ArPharazonV: neh, I doubt it's listed there...
Farmer Maggot V: The Encyc
ArathornValar: /wordpress/
VardaValar1: I meant what database?
ArathornValar: Just finished testing his PHP language and MySQL database by setting up a terst Web log :-D
VardaValar1: Not Access. You mentioned once but I don't remember
Farmer Maggot V: most likely MySQL since that's what I have installed here
Chugin Chub has left the room.
Farmer Maggot V: but anyways, say I if you're interested hehe (makes it easier for me to tell and jot down :P)
ArPharazonV: 'Oropher was of Sindarin origin,'...
VardaValar1: Yes, he was of Sindarin origin
ArPharazonV: nothing, absolutely nothing, about the Noldor
VardaValar1: But he may have had some Noldo way back down the line
VardaValar1: Ok
VardaValar1: He was very wroth with the Noldor and refused to acknowledge that he was blood kin
ArPharazonV: where does that say?
VardaValar1: That's what I'm trying to find : )
VardaValar1: That was the question
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: He moved to Greenwood with his household, and more or less went native with the Silvans, getting away from what he perceived
VardaValar1: as a wrecked lifestyle due to the mistake by the overprotective Valar of calling them to Valinor
VardaValar1: Thus Legolas was raised with a Silvan viewpoint, not so grim as the Noldor or other Sindarins
ArPharazonV: 'came from Doriath after its ruin, and had no desire ... to be merged with the other Sindar of Beleriand, dominated by the Noldorin Exiles for whom the folk of Doriath had no great love.'
VardaValar1: But if I can't find the reference, I can't use it
VardaValar1: It was like a line somewhere. : )
VardaValar1: Needle in a haystack
VardaValar1: Well, if there's no further discussion,
ArPharazonV: I can't find it either...
VardaValar1: I'm going to see to some other things
VardaValar1: Maybe it does not exist
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: oh dear how said never mind...
ArPharazonV: Namarie
Eonwe Valar: take care Varda
ArPharazonV: *sad
ArPharazonV: Namarie...
VardaValar1: It may not exist. Nothing to do with you
ArPharazonV: I'll get you a transcript soon
DaeTPringl: Namarie
VardaValar1: Thanks
Farmer Maggot V: Namarie Varda!
DaeTPringl has left the room.
Farmer Maggot V: Aye, I've got a transcript here too
VardaValar1: Later
VardaValar1 has left the room.
Farmer Maggot V: so anyways, who was interested in programming?
ArPharazonV: interested, but clueless... and I have to go soon
ArPharazonV: your best bet would be Arathorn
Farmer Maggot V: yes, but more than one person would be nice ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I've got too many other languages to deal with right now,.. Discrete Math, Physics,.. :}
Farmer Maggot V: heh, OK :-)
ArathornValar: I! Aye! Oi!
Farmer Maggot V: that makes 2 (possible 3 :-))
Arwen V1 has left the room.
Farmer Maggot V: and I believe Gwaihir and Lady Fallun were interested, and Fladrif
ArPharazonV: Lady Fallun? Shouldn't you address her as Gilraen now?
Farmer Maggot V: heh, wasn't sure which was her guild name :P
Farmer Maggot V: And so the conversation ended.......
ArPharazonV: :-)
ArathornValar: Yes, the meeting seems to me over. I'm off to have a late supper myself... Namarie all!
Farmer Maggot V: Namarie Arathorn!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
mikenowo has left the room.
ArPharazonV: ok, saving transcript... seems like the meeting's over
ArPharazonV: and I'm going to bed as well
ArPharazonV: Namarie everybody!
Farmer Maggot V: well, I'm heading out of the chat room, Namarie!
(8:05:06 PM) FarmerMaggotV has left the room.
ArPharazonV has left the room.
Grimbold V has left the room.
ArathornValar has left the room.
TurgonjustTurgon has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: Aiya for those still here
Eonwe Valar: `heya
TurgonjustTurgon: sorry I'm so late....
Eonwe Valar: I'm not really here, I'm just a figment of AIM's imagination
Eonwe Valar: NP :}
TurgonjustTurgon: laptop was being buggy again
Eonwe Valar: ouch
TurgonjustTurgon: oh well